Mind the Game - Tyrese and LeBron on Lazy Narratives, Playing the Villain and the Pacers Playoff Run for the Ages

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

Welcome to Part 2 of our very special episode of Mind the Game with LeBron James and guest co-host Tyrese Haliburton. In this episode, Tyrese and LeBron talk about the amazing 2025 Indiana Pacers playoff run, the NBA Finals against the Oklahoma City Thunder and of course Tyrese’s devastating injury in Game 7. Then the guys get into the lazy ‘overrated’ narrative that surrounds Tyrese and what it’s like being a villain in the NBA. And finally, the guys get into the teams that have been influenced by the Indiana Pacers including The Boston Celtics and the Phoenix Suns.Thanks for watching Mind the Game. If you haven’t already, make sure to follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. See you next episode!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up on this episode of Mind the Game. Us winning was forcing the networks to have to talk about basketball. And I know that's hard sometimes for some people to talk about basketball. So they quickly shifted it to how can we make this lame-ass conversation be about is Tyrese Helleber and a superstar? Y'all 2025 playoff run. The game Tyre was shot. Oh my God.

It bounced all the way to the top of the damn stadium. But it felt good the whole time. I promise it felt good the whole time. All I could think about going into game set. the night before was like, tomorrow is the biggest moment in my basketball career. If I've scored 10 points in the first quarter in my career, I don't think I've ever lost.

So I'd nine in like, whatever, six minutes. You mentioned legacy and all that and changing the narrative with winning it. I think you did that even with y'all losing too. Right. The Celtics. They came into the season. A lot of people were saying, well, you know,

might be lottery for the Celtics. Jalen Brown basically said, the hell with your narrative, I'm about to go crazy. Last year was a lot of, let me get the switch and JT and J.T. and J.B. just be two of the best players in the world in ISO and score. They're doing a great job of getting switches and then having that pace within the half court with the blurs, with the random action to kind of play out of that empowers everybody else to play the right way. I would love to talk about you being the villain.

I say this all the time, like, people love you until you become a threat to what they want. Oh, for sure. Things became a little different because of the whole overrated thing. There are certain fans already didn't rock with me. Now my peers are piling on top of that. And then the fans are like, you know what? Because his peers are doing that, we're in too, you know? Like it has to be true.

It has to be true. I want to get to is, man, y'all, y'all playoff run. Y'all 2025 playoff run. Coming into, you know, playing, you know, I guess you, I think you guys played Cleveland, you guys play Boston. Who did y'all play in the first round? Milwaukee. It was Milwaukee, New York, or Milwaukee, Cleveland, New York.

Milwaukee, Cleveland, New York. And then obviously. Okay, C, okay, yeah. So, you know, you guys dominated that first series with Milwaukee. And then coming in and around two, with Cleveland having, they had the best record in NBA that year, right? Yeah, they had the best record. They had the momentum.

You know, everybody was picking them to go to the finals that year out of the east. Man, take me through that run. That run was magical, bro. Take me through it. Yeah, man, it was crazy. It was nuts. Probably, you know, the most special time I've ever had playing this game. The Milwaukee series, obviously, it's well-documented, the history we have with

with them and they have with us. So, you know, when we got to match up with them, we were excited and took advantage of that and actually having home court. Like, that was a big deal for us, too. Like, being able to control home court and take care of that. And, you know, moving on to a team like Cleveland

who had the number one record in the league the whole year. But we felt comfortable in that series going into that series because we never really played them healthy. Like, they weren't healthy or we weren't healthy. Really, the whole year. Our last two games of the year playing them, last two games of the year, we both sat everybody. We sat everybody one game, then we both sat everybody the other game.

I think I might have got hurt a halftime of one of the games, so it didn't come out for the second half. I don't remember the other game. I don't think I played. So really, we never had our full roster against them. So we never really matched up with them in a real way. So, you know, they obviously were battling some injury stuff. And we, you know, when you're on the road to start a series,

you just let's steal one. Let's just steal one. And you win that first game and kind of that. you win that first game in kind of like dominant fashion like it wasn't really close and that second game

was kind of like like all right you just want to get out of here and then it was like hold on we might come back right to take two on the road to take two

is like now all I'm thinking is like we're sweeping them we're sweeping them yeah we're sweeping them yeah and then we lose game three

we get kind of we got blown out in game three it was ugly but then we blew them right back out in game four and now you're up three one you kind of got that, I mean, I know I'm not supposed to say you have that confidence around you, but you know,

what I mean? If you have a one, you feel good about it and kind of just run from there. And then, you know, it's a match up with New York who that's what we wanted. We played them the year before. And the excuse was that they were, they were hurt. And they were. And so we're like, okay, you're healthy now. We're healthy.

Let's who. And, you know, I felt like we felt really comfortable in that series. Obviously, the game won, like the comeback, the game winner or the game tire. The shot. Oh, my God. It bounced all the way to the top of the damn state. But it felt good the whole time. I promise it felt good the whole time.

And if it would have been a three, to me it's like one of the greatest shots of NBA history. If it was a three, one or the two. But like that moment to have that happen, you could, again, we talked about taking that air out of the building. Like, you could just feel it gone. And then it just kind of like riding that wave of all that team momentum to get to the finals. And, you know, I think about game four of the finals a lot. Didn't finish it. But like, it was like, all right, how do we move on, get to games?

You know, we get to game seven. and it's like, this is the moment. Like, all I can think about going into game seven the night before was like, tomorrow is the biggest moment in my basketball career. Like, there's nothing that matters more. This will define the way that people talk about me for the rest of my career. That's the way I viewed it. And if that's correct or incorrect, I didn't care because I was like, if I win,

and I know legacy talk is a bigger thing and I don't necessarily care. But like to be a lead point guard to help lead a team to win, to win a championship that puts me in some rare air. You know what I mean? In a space that, you know, it is pretty special. So all I could think about was

tomorrow's a big moment. Don't put more pressure on myself. I'm just going out there, a hoop, and I had it going early. And there was a dude, courtside. I was like, he's going to be the guy I'm going at today.

Like, I'm talking to him. I'm like, all right, we're gone now. And I don't know, I don't know the stat, but if I've scored 10 points in the first quarter in my career, I don't think I've ever lost. So I'd nine in like, whatever, six minutes, you know?

So I'm feeling good. I'm like, I've never felt like this to where, you know, I was like documented. Like if he makes the first shot, he has a good game. If he misses the first one, it's bad or whatever. Well, I made that motherfucker that game. So I'm like, we're going to go. And I missed like my third three and got it back in a quick one. I was like, all, we're going to go off this and ultimately get injured.

But, I mean, it was just such a special time for us. And it all coincided with so many different things at the same time, bro. Like the run, the overrated stuff. What the hellie, the song coming out? all kind of rose at once and it kind of all just, you know, took a life of its own. So it was really special for us, man. No, absolutely. That was a big time run there.

And like, you mentioned, you know, legacy and all that and changing the narrative of you or whatever the case may be with winning it. I think you did that even with y'all losing too. Right. You know, I think the conversation coming out of that was, man, this guy gave everything, his whole body, everything, no matter how we felt. coming into game six, no matter how he felt coming in the game five, what he did for game seven putting his body on the line to go through that moment at that time, bro, everything that

you would have got with winning it, you got with losing. And I hate the fact that it sounds that way. You know, the only thing that you didn't get is the ring. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you didn't get a ring. You don't get the trophy. But everything that you think you would have been able to capture winning it, you actually did it as well. because of you going out there and putting your body on the line and you're putting on for that city. You know, like, you know, I mean,

obviously I'm old enough to know the last time they went to the NBA finals, you know, it was when they played against the show, you know, played against Shaq and Kobe. Yeah. You know, so for you to put on and to see Reggie Miller there rocking with y'all or whatever the case may be,

you're doing that moment in the guard and in the Easter conference finals or whatever the case meant be. I think that was super dope. And you just mentioned, like, the whole overrated, what the hell he, like, you know, For me, like, you see what I, you know, tweeted out during the games or whatever the case may be.

I'm like, where the fuck all the, where are y'all at now? We're the haters. I don't hear y'all. Y'all. You're quiet now all of a sudden. Why y'all quiet now? And the problem is, you know, and it's not a, you know, I know you don't care. I don't care.

But we like to, we use it as fuel. But, like, you know, you have so many watchers of just stat sheets. You have guys that just do like this after the game. And they go to their phone and they look and say, okay, well, Hallie, you know, 14 points, you know, 13 assists, you know, 6, 7 rebounds. You know, they're like, okay, cool. The next game, Halley, 18 points, 12 assists, 5 rebounds, a couple of steals. You know, and people read into that shit because everything and the whole narrative of our game is all about like just get a bucket.

How can he, he ain't a bucket getter. Well, he's not great. He's overrated. He ain't a bucket getter. Like, how about the fact that we 20 games over 500? right how about that how about we're winning

and when I'm on the court we're in the plus yes how about the fact that my teammates love the fact when I'm on the court they love what we bring to the table

like and I just think it's just ridiculous sometimes and the fact that some of our counterparts and colleagues even fed into that shit to us probably was the bums of our league to

anyways I would get into that it's like the lame ass conversation the whole playoffs because us winning was forcing the networks to have to talk about basketball and I know that's hard sometimes for some people to talk about basketball but it's like when we're winning you're not talking about what my legacy or what Pascal's legacy you're not talking about that so you've got to talk about the game because you're talking about us and so they quickly

shifted it to how can we make this conversation this lame-ass conversation be about is Tyrese Helleber and a superstar is he a superstar like that was just so lazy to me when it was like if y'all wanted to like actually talk hoop and what our team is doing how we're applying more full court pressure we're we're proving that you don't have to slow down in the playoffs to succeed we're doing all these things that you feel the need not to talk about because you want to you need to run narratives and stuff like I and me and Steve talked about actually I talked to Steve a little bit before the finals like trying to find that balance between being that score and being that passer is a fight I fight I fight. every day when I every game I fight that battle and trying to figure out the balance between the two because if I'm past heavy and I don't shoot enough, it could be hurting our team. But it also is like the conversation becomes, oh, Tyrese can't score or whatever. And like there's rarely times where I shoot too much, you know, so I'm trying to find the balance between the two. And that's part of, you know, my growth and evolution as a player. But I feel like that was the most fun part

about that run was like, y'all got to talk about hoop. And y'all, and, you know, and, you know, you're showing, I don't know if you can necessarily talk who because you got to keep doing that route, you know? What I want to ask, Bron, while we're here, because I've talked to some guys about it, and I feel like you're a good person for me to ask this to. Obviously, you played in the finals in, well, 07 against San Antonio, and then 11 against Dallas, right? So those are, like, the first two, like, the years after that, like, kind of the, like, for me,

that's the biggest thing, I guess, the, a mental battle. And I think it's not just me, it's everybody, but everybody goes through this who loses in the finals, right? Like, am I going to get back again? You know, and like, how do I, where do I take my mind to get back there? You're a guy who's been back there so many times. It's like, what is the approach to the next year or, you know, your preparation, just getting back there? What is, like, your biggest, like, focus in those years? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you're absolutely right because you work, you work your ass off and you know, like, you and, you, you and, you, you. your teammates, whatever, whatever, you know, your teammates is that year. And, you know, you hope that, you know, the, the nucleus could stick together. But, like, how do you, how do you keep that same mental drive and that same mental motivation to be able to take on the marathon? You know, because that's what it is. Our season is a big marathon. And then you get to the postseason, it becomes a sprint, but it is still part of the marathon from September to hopefully June. You know, so I, for me, personally.

Personally, like I, you know, lost in 07, obviously, to San Antonio. And we kind of had one of those magical runs that y'all kind of had, you know, in 2025, where we beat, you know, a couple of teams. We beat Detroit where, you know, we had no business beating Detroit, you know, and making it to the finals, you know, that year. But, you know, and then, you know, in 11, losing to Dallas. And it was like, okay, cool. We got to that point.

We've met that marker. So, like, what is it that I'm? doing personally that isn't allowing us to get over that hump. So I kind of just put more, I don't want to say pressure, but I just put more accountability on what can I continue to do. Is it, you know, is it, you know, defending it a little bit better here? Is it, you know, maybe, you know, is it listening to my teammates more? Is it asking them like, yo, what y'all need out of me tonight, you know, to, you know,

you need this out of me tonight? You need that out of me tonight. Like, is it, what is it? You know, and guys just all have to be on the same page. And obviously, you know, shit happens throughout the course of the season. You have, you shit, you lose three out of four. You lose, you know, you lose two games in a row when you are, you know, you're a really good team. And you have to, like, refocus, but you got to stay even killed, you know.

And I think that, you know, obviously when you make your return and, you know, you guys come back to, you know, how you, the standard of how you guys want to play, you know, it's about, okay, we got. we got to the mountain you know and we saw the top so what can we do now to get to the mountain top you know and and I think it's just about the mindset it's about the process of it all and you know like you said the game teams are going to continue to get

better and you got to have a little luck as well you know that you gotta have a little luck as well that's the thing is that's like the biggest thing is like you gotta get lucky bro you gotta get lucky man like we got Like, yeah, we came back all these times and they're like, okay, you do that multiple times. It's not luck.

But, man, we just had so many things go right in a lot of these series. Like, I think I can name a moment from every, like Milwaukee, we're doubling and Gary Trent, who's having the game, an amazing game, he's having 30. He catches it just drops out of bounds. It's like, how did that happen? And then the Cleveland series, I'd miss a free throw and somehow I get the rebound. I don't ever get rebounds on free throws.

just the ball bounces the right way. Like the New York series, the, the, the, the, the, the, Aaron Neesmith makes five, six, threes like that and yeah, the shot goes off. And like all that stuff had to, it all had to align correctly for that to happen. That's the biggest thing people don't talk about to win. That's like the ingredient that you, it's no question. I feel like it's so hard to replicate, which is why you go into the finals 100 years in a row. It's so crazy to me, because you got to have a little luck at some, you know what I mean?

And multiple points within each run. Yeah, for sure. And you do. You have to have that luck around that, around those runs. But the one thing that you can't control is just about how you attack every day. Right. You know, how you attack every day. And it's not saying, like, I need to be in the gym every day going crazy, whatever case may be.

No, no, I know. But it's just like, yeah, mental, you know, physical, you know, spiritual. Like, you know, how can you keep yourself, you know, abreast, you know, and the moment? So, you know, I think you, I think you, you, you, you, you've tasted a bit of the finals. and I know you want to get back there. So, you know, obviously, I'm moving for you for sure. Yeah, it's. And now over to our producer, Jason, for a message from one of our partners.

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fans, you're giving them the comfort of home and earning yourself some extra income while you're away. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. The Celtics. You know, we talked about Tatum, but also I want to talk about guys taking advantage of injuries and also losing personnel. We look at the Celtics. The Celtics lost Tatum the injury. You know, they lost, you know, Al Horford to another team, you know, Drew Holiday to another team, Cornett to another team.

You know, they came into the, Prasengis went to Atlanta. Yep. They came into the season. A lot of people were saying, well, you know, might be lottery for the Celtics. Might be lottery. Jalen Brown basically said, the hell what y'all narrate, which all narrative, I'm about to go crazy. We got to give some flowers to Jaylon Brown. Let's just talk about, man, his rise and what he's done this year.

Yeah, I mean, he's playing unbelievable. I think he's doing a great job of just playing within the flow. Like, I feel like he's not going out of his way to, you know, fuck up what they have going offensively. I think he's, I think there's a stat here that outside of 12 feet, he's 48% on contested twos. That is ridiculous. That doesn't even make sense.

Like, he's only behind Katie and Shay and makes. And Shay has to, yeah. Yeah. Like, that is, that's like, that's hard. That's hard to do because especially where our league is now, you live, you say outside of KD, maybe, you're living with the mid-range two. Like, they can't, that's what we always say, they can't beat us with the mid-range two.

There are some guys that can meet you with the mid-range two. There's some guys that can beat you for sure. Yeah, for sure. And the way he's played right now is unbelievable. Like, he's third on the team in time of possession. Like, he's doing a great job of just getting off the ball, moving, and I think he's just playing within the flow. and I feel like everybody else around him

has been empowered to play the correct way. Like, I feel like when guys go down or when situations are different, some guys feel like they need to do more or they need to play a different way where I feel like the Celtics, the guys like, I feel like they really like Gonzalez. I feel like he's going to be a part of what they have going.

Yeah, the kid Walsh coming in, giving him Jordan Walsh. Exactly. Yes. Houser, who's doing still what he's been doing. My not. I seen a stat the other day. I don't know the exact stat,

but I think the Houser, like, had like 30, and he shot all threes or something like that. 10 for 21. Yeah. 10 for 21. All three. He had six or seven at halftime. And I think they were joking with him because the second half, he wasn't, he didn't shoot it great. But he's 10 for 21 from three.

Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. Like, I like that they're still allowing him. We need you to be you and we need everybody to be you, they all. And we'll figure it out. And they're doing a great job, I think, of their bigs. Like, obviously they're playing guys like, Keda and Garza, who are much different than Al Horford, Cornett, Porzingis,

but they're doing a great job of just flowing into stuff. Like we always said, we played them. Their bigs were always kind of on that slot line hanging out for flares. Yeah, exactly. And to, you know, set it for J.T. and D. White and Drew and J.B. And I think that they're doing a great job of still playing that way. But I feel like they've kind of, I don't want to say bit from us. I don't want to say that's the right word.

But, like, they're doing a great job of last year was a lot of, let me get the switch and JT and J.T. and J.B. Just be two of the best players in the world in ISO and score. They're doing a great job of getting switches and then having that pace within the half court with the blurs, with the random action to kind of play out of that empowers everybody else to play the right way. No, no, absolutely. You give a lot of credit to Missoula, obviously, just like, you know, just giving instilling confidence in those guys. You know, obviously, you know, they got a couple guys that's already self-confident. You know, you got J.B., you know, like you mentioned, Payton Pritchard, he comes in, like, I'm confident already.

You know, Anthony Simons, when he comes in off the bench, confident already, Derek White confident. But, like, he's just instilling confidence in the rest of those guys. And, you know, it's a few teams that's like, you know, happened to adapt this year. You know, obviously, we just got done playing the Nuggets last night. And, you know, they're a team that's adapting without Yolkich. You know, we want to speak about them. We want to talk about the Sons. You know, the Sons is a totally different team from last year when it was booked Katie.

Bradley Bill, you know, and now it's, you know, more just book and, you know, Dylan Brooks is having a stellar year and those guys kind of just like adapting. Also Miami, you know, Miami is completely revamped their whole way of playing. Less to none picking rolls, less to none ISOs, getting more into like, I would say, kind of like how you guys are playing, you know, just pace, getting the ball movement. You know, if you ain't got catching shot, catch and get off of it, catching drive, get off of it, get to the second, third side, you know, and you got to. Norman Powell playing exceptional basketball.

Obviously, Bam does what he does. You know, let's kind of like talk about those three teams. Yeah, I think that's like a really interesting point you're making. And I want to say that, but I don't want to sound like arrogant. But I feel like when teams watch us in our run last year, right? A lot of teams I felt like in front offices and coaches watch our group. And the way they're watching is like the way they're playing, we want to play that way. And they look at a guy like me who's not like this like super scoring, go get you.

you look and say, we have a player on our team who's just as good as Helbert and Norse Yakum. And if we got the right pieces around, we can play this upstyle way and uppaced, like, fast tempo way. So I watch a team like Phoenix, who I love. I love watching Phoenix play. And I see, you know, their coach, coach I came from Cleveland, who me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think he saw the way we play and has tried to move that. And that was something me and Jenny Bouchack, our defensive coach talked about a lot.

was you watch these pressers from these other teams, especially in Media Day. I remember I was watching book. They played like in China. And he said like, oh, yeah, we're going to try to play it more up tempo. And we're going to pick up full court. You see what Indiana is doing. I think the game is going that way. And I feel like our league, as you know, is such a copycat league.

It's a copycat league. You mentioned it earlier when you talked about Phoenix playing without the two bigs. Now everybody's going that way. I feel like we didn't win. Like usually you steal from the, you know, the team that wins. but you see all the success that we had, teams are kind of taking that and turn it into their own thing.

No, absolutely. And you don't have to sound arrogant because that is what it, our league has always been a Compecat league. Always, no matter who. Like, there were teams like in the 90s. They tried, listen, one thing you have to have, Reese and you know, you have to have the personnel.

There were teams because of the Bulls were winning so much, you know, that people tried to run a triangle. Like, and you don't have Michael Jordan. Yeah. Okay, so it's not going to work. You know, there were teams in the 80s that wanted to play like Showtime Lakers. You don't have Magic Johnson.

You know, so like they're, you know, and then, you know, even in the early 2000s, people wanted to play, you know, seven seconds or less. They wanted to play like the Phoenix Suns. You don't have Steve Nash, but you've got to have the personnel to do it. And I think, like you said, you don't have to sound arrogant. I think it's absolutely true. Everyone talked about the way you guys played the game of basketball. It looked fun.

It looked like something that you wanted to implement. One, you've got to have the personnel, but also, it's hard to scout for unpredictable. You know, and like I said earlier. Like, what do you do? I mean, what do you do in our scout? Because we run, yeah, I run drag. I get drags. I get, we run Spain.

But like, it's in the flow. We're not, we don't call much. Right. It's in the flow of things. So I think a lot of teams, you even look at the spurs. We just got down playing the spurs not too long ago. I think on one of our back-to-backs, and they're kind of playing kind of that same way.

Obviously, they have a unicorn, alien, and Wimby, but they have a lot of guys, you know, Fox, Castle, Dylan Harper, you know, Kelton Johnson, you know, all these other surrounding parts that's like getting the ball up fast. Okay, you ain't got shot. Get off of it. Quick pick a roll, drag, blur screens, slip screens. Like, they're doing all of this stuff.

and that you have to have the personnel to fit it, but it's also a good way to, you know, you have teams that have, you know, scouting. You can't scout that. It's not like, oh, you come down, hey, they're running a loop to a drag, okay, make sure, low man going to be there every time. No, it's just hard to scout that.

So I definitely give credit to you, Coach Carlisle and y'all on, this is where the game is headed. So, you think it's like, you think it's that, I think it's, I mean, you can, probably speak to it as well, but like, I think the game works that way defensively, too, where we try to copycat and steal that.

I think it's funny. We talk about the it's season tournament game. After we played John, everybody came out blitzing me, and it wasn't working. And I would look at the bench and be like, Anthony Davis ain't here, and Bronn ain't the league. I'm telling you. It's not going to work. Yeah. It's not the same.

And that's what a great coach and a great coach of staff and usually your best players, your best player, or if you have a couple of guys. they're able to understand what's best for their team. Yes, we all want to play like the Pacers. Yes, we all want to play like the Showtime Lakers. Yes, we all want to play like the Kansas City Chiefs. I'm sorry, but Mahomes is not at the helm. You know, so like we have to be able to, you know,

and it's unfortunate because there are teams and there are clubs and things in all different sports that want to try to copycat. exactly what they see because it's working, but you have to identify with what you have. And if you're able to identify what you have, then you can make the most of what you got. But it's great, man.

You guys play a great style of basketball. Me and Steve talked about it a lot last year, and I obviously can't wait to get you back on the floor because the game missed you and seeing the way you play. I will love to talk about, I brought it up earlier. I said New York Knicks fans. love their favorite guy.

I would love to talk about you being the villain, man. Like, how do you, how do you, you love having that hat on. And where did that come from? Like, for sure. I mean, I see your pops too. I feel like your pops back in the day was like that too. Like, you know, did it come from pops? Did it come from you just like watching, you know, watching the NBA or just like,

shit, man, this is fun. Like, I love interacting and just getting that vibe out there. Yeah. You know, it's so funny because I always, I always, I say this all the time, like, people love you until you become a threat to what they want, you know? Oh, for sure. So, like, I tell you this all the time. They understand, like, when I used to go back and play in Milwaukee, I used to get cheered, like, loud.

Like, I would score and get cheered. And then the minute that our team was a threat to what Milwaukee was trying to build and we played in the playoffs, now it's the worst person of the world. We're booing them. You know, like, that's just how things kind of happen really fast. Even in the garden, not that I got cheered or anything, but I had the moment where I threw the ball off the glass and hit Pascal. And it was like, oh, it looks cold, right? And it was like, you know how the garden is?

Like, once you do something, you have a great game or you play it. They respect it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But since we get to the playoffs, they are dirt, you know. But I think it's so funny because for me, I mean, it's probably similar to you because you were kind of in your villain era in Miami as well. Like, that's not us. Like, we're just like, we play the game.

We love the game. It's like I love what I do. We smile when we play. I think we're both kind of in that realm. But like we also look for things that get us going. You know what I mean? And I think all the greats do. They're looking for those outside sources to kind of give us that push.

And so for me being a young guy and playing in my first playoffs two years ago, and playing again last year and really having to go through the same teams, right? It was Milwaukee and New York and then went to Boston, lost the Boston. Then we played Milwaukee in New York again with Cleveland. And then obviously, okay, see, but things became a little different because of the whole overrated thing. So now it wasn't just, it wasn't, the fans, there's certain fans already didn't rock with me. Now my peers are piling on top of that. And then the fans are like, you know what?

Because his peers are doing that, we're in too, you know? Like it has to be true. It has to be true. Exactly. So it kind of just, and for me, I've always just been a guy who's like, I'm my toughest critic. I'm trying to, like, I'm worried about my locker room because when we went to the end season, tournament final, when we went to the playoffs, all these things, we were never picked to do those things.

Like I've never, I've never been favored to win a, like a serious game ever. That's like never happened to me. Like, I mean, you haven't been picked to, like, you was not recruited high. Like, like, you've never been in, you never been like the guy that everybody was like, man, we got to make sure we keep him under. Like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's my life. That's my story.

So I enjoy that. I feel like I love that. and I'm a big wrestling fan. Like, I love wrestling. I love kind of that, like, that, like, heel, bad guy who you want to cheer for, right? Like, the rock and guys like that. And you grow up watching who, like, everybody's booing them, but, like, they love it. Like, I feel like I'm that way.

And I feel like all the grades kind of do that. They look for that, what's that outside source to get me going? And then you just kind of feel off that. And I know you can relate to that, too. No, no, absolutely. Like, it's, I mean, it's funny. You said, like, I grew up a big wrestling fan, too. And obviously, I'm a lot more older than you.

you, obviously. But I grew up watching, like, you know, Hulk Hogan. Like, at one point, Hawk Hogan was like America's, you know, everyone loved him, you know, what it means to be an American. And then one day he went to NWO and people couldn't, they couldn't understand how he tagged up with the enemy. Like, they was like, what is going on? Right. You know, and everybody just booed him. He went from wearing red and yellow to black and white, new world order heard all of that. So like, you know, it is a funny thing to, you know, and one, we're entertainers as well. Exactly. We're entertainers as well. And we grew up, you know, like you said, watching wrestling, watch your entertainment, watching movies, watching, you know, a guy be the hero or be the villain.

You know, I'm a big Batman fan. As much as Batman is my favorite superhero of all time, I also love the Joker's role. You know, I love the Joker. I love Heath Ledger. I love, you know, Jack Nichols. Like, I love those guys playing those roles. You know, I love Tom Hardy as bang. Like I love that shit too. So like, you know, like you said, our personality is like, listen, we want to go out and have fun, you know, get our guys involved, smile, you know, be happy because this is, that brings us joy. That's how we've always played it. But we can tap into the Joker role of y'all make us now. Yeah, we can get there too now and still be able to perform at a high level. So, you know, it can be weird at times, but, you know, I think

I think it's dope that we both kind of see it the same way and able to tap into that, especially on the road. There's nothing better than quieting and solace in the road crowd. There's nothing better. I always tell people of my four game winners in the playoffs, like the one at home is my least favorite. Because the other one's like feeling the energy like being taken out of a building, there's nothing in the world that's better than that. And what people don't understand is like, playoff basketball, this ain't nothing to like,

I'm not, this ain't nothing to laugh about. It's not funny. Like, this is do or die time. I'm trying to win every game. Because you know how it is. You give up one game in the playoffs. It can cost you a whole series. It can cost you a whole series.

I don't think about any game in the playoffs more than I think about game for the finals. Up to one going up in the fourth quarter. We lose that game. We ultimately, obviously, lose the series. But if you win that game, you go up 3-1, it changes the whole trajectory of the series. It changes the whole thing. Absolutely.

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there's nothing like platinum. Terms apply. Learn more at Americanexpress.com slash with platinum. You know, for me, I've had this privilege for the last 23 years. And as a kid growing up, where I grew up, I always looked at some of the greatest athletes in the world that had the same privilege and had this same honor. I want to talk about you having your first first.

signature shoe, bro. You know, I'm seeing you wear the hoodie right now with your logo. You know, I remember as a kid growing up, Michael Jordan, King Griffey Jr., you know, Bo Jackson with the cross trainer, you know, J. Kid, all these guys, you know, Dionne Sanders, like Barry Sanders, have their own sneaker. And I was like, oh, my God, that would be so incredible, bro. Like, you know, and I want to, I want to, what does it mean for you, bro, to like have your first You know, had your first collab, now you got your apparel. Like that shit has to be super cool and surreal for you, bro. Yeah, it's amazing, man.

You know, during that whole Olympic process and my shoe contract expiring, you know, just like talking with all these different brands and companies and the realization, like, before I even picked a company that there are companies out there that want to give me my own shoe, like, I couldn't even fathom it from where I come from and my story and the under-recruited kid to get to where I am. And I mean, it was just so amazing, bro. Like looking back at my life, like it's a top five moment for me to have my own shoe. Because just like you, I grew up, like where I, my mom stopped feeding my shoe addiction once I got to like high school.

So I would rep on the weekends just to make enough money to go on eBay. And how do I get the, what, the LeBrons? How do I get the Concord 11s? How do I get all these different kicks to, like, you know, that, you know, for me to feel good, look fly, whatever. And so for now, there's kids out there who have the ability to go to a store and get my shoe. it means the world to me. So like I always stop in my tracks, you know, like when I see somebody at a game or something with my shoe to sign it, it's like, it's so surreal for me.

It's unbelievable. And I'm sure you can relate to loving the process of making your own colors, designing your own stories and doing all these special things. It's like it means the world to me and it's so cool and I can't wait to see, you know, where the future of my business goes and what I'm doing with Puma is so amazing. And so, yeah, man, and I know you can relate here. How many shoes you got now? What number are you on?

I'm on signature 23, but I got so many other ones as well. You know, you know, Brian. I can even imagine. I can even imagine. And like there's got to be a, when you're designing them, bro, by the time, like, I'm already at, we're working on the, you know, the two. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. I already know you are.

I already, of course. Yeah. People don't understand. Once your shoe comes out, you are already designing the next one. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I just, I literally just left Portland last, what? We just played Portland a few days ago, and I met with Nike. We were trying to finalize the 24.

So, you know, I just started at 23. We were getting close to finalize into 24, and then, you know, start talking about the 25. So it's a long process, man. And, you know, I'm just super proud of you, man. Super hype for you in this whole thing, like your whole journey, like you said, like we mentioned earlier, you. You know, your journey is a lot different than mine, you know. But, you know, when it comes to the way. we love the game and how we met as far as how we play the game how we approach the game how we

love the game how we study the game you know i just love to see you know guys like yourself and the younger generation just like continue to take the game where it need to be taken to you know um because the guys up underneath you the guys that's in high school the guys is in college these guys look up to you they look up to the aunt they look up to the you know the younger generation so you know it means a lot to me man and uh super duper i'm super humbled and super appreciative of you you allow me to be in your corner, bro. Yeah, no, I appreciate that, man. You, I appreciate, you know, I would be wrong if I didn't, you know,

give you your flowers that you have helped lay the blueprint for where we are going, where our game is going. I think not only in basketball, but just business and the way you've taken care of your guys. Like, I think we always talk about that as younger guys. Like, Bronn gave us the blueprint, like for us to, you know, help put our people in better positions to succeed and, you know, to chase something bigger and take this game. to another level the way you've just carried yourself and man and the relationship I have with you is man got to be one of the most special things to me because I grew up you know you were my guy

you know I had the I if I had a picture of my childhood you'd have the you had the LeBron fathead behind my house behind my bed with the Cleveland jersey so it's so surreal for me to be here talking with you and just our relationship so man I appreciate you appreciate you having me and really thankful me absolutely well that was great Ty thanks for doing it yeah of course Of course, man. I appreciate you guys having me. Yeah, and only took you 45 minutes to bring up wrestling. So, great work. Hey, Jason, I'm gonna bring them up again every time.

Tell us WWE to pay me. Tell them to pay me, let me get in the ring. Thanks for watching, mind the game. New episodes drop every other Tuesday. Remember to like, subscribe, or follow wherever you're watching.