Mind the Game - What Makes a Great Basketball Player?

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

Presented by Uninterrupted and ThreeFourTwo Productions. Welcome to the first episode of Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick. We are really excited to share this podcast where we examine and celebrate the game of basketball. In this first episode we ask ourselves a very simple question, "What makes a great basketball player?" That question launches us into discussions about the The Los Lakers recent comeback win against the Los Angeles Clippers, philosophical questions about basketball IQ and we dive into concepts like "Thumb Down" and "Floppy" and "Horns Chest." We also talk about this year's leap of Jayson Tatum and The Boston Celtics and what makes them so dangerous. And finally, we dive into the influence of Stephen Curry.We really hope you enjoy our show. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you'd like to see some of the visuals referenced in this episode, please subscribe to Mind the Game on YouTube at YouTube.com/@MindtheGameSubscribe to Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick today for more NBA insight, analysis, highlights and more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Follow the best idea yet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, dude, I'm so excited to have this conversation. It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be fun. I just wanted, before we start, I want to make sure we're on the same page with like why we're doing this, right? Thank you. I think like the core, it's got to be what nothing else is.

We're celebrating the game, right? So I think overall, like I wanted to do it. I think overall, like I want it to feel comfortable, relaxed. I want it to strike a very positive tone. I typically rant about things. I'm going to probably rant today. Like, it just comes out naturally, like whatever. Let's do it.

Welcome to Mind the Game with LeBron James and Jay Jay Reddick. This is a new podcast presented by Uninterrupted and Three, Four, Two Productions. I want to be clear here. This is a basketball show. This is a show with the intention and purpose to celebrate the game, promote the game, explain the game. We will be covering a number of topics, not just the NBA. NCAA, Men's and Women's, WNBA, FIBA. LeBron and I are two people who, I would call us, obsessed with the game of basketball with this sport that has given so much to us. And two weeks ago, we sat down in L.A. to record the first two episodes. The first episode actually asked a simple question, what makes a great basketball player? Beyond just talent and skill set. And we touch on a number of things that we think, that we think, make. a great basketball player. This is about creating separation. Once you get to the highest

levels, everybody has talent, everybody has skill. How do you separate yourself? One of the things we talk about is basketball intelligence. In some ways, it's a nod to the title of the show. We posit the question, can you learn basketball intelligence? Can you learn and develop basketball IQ? Or is it innate? And I would argue, of course you can. Of course you can develop basketball intelligence through film study, through great coaching. And of course, through the number one teacher experience. And I think that's an important thing to note. I was fortunate to play 15 years in the NBA. It was a hard 15 years of being a plumber. But I had a great experience. And I learned so much about the game. And I had great coaches

and I had great teammates. LeBron, of course, has played the game at the highest level for 21. years. His experience is valuable. His basketball IQ is valuable. One thing to note, if you are listening to this podcast, we also have a video podcast available on social and YouTube. And in those videos, we will be showing the exact basketball concepts that we are talking about. Episode one actually has a few different basketball concepts that we talk about. Episode two is a little more granular, a little more X and O. But episode one, we do talk about thumb down. What is thumb down? Thumb down is simply a high screen and roll, a high pick and roll. Thumb down angle, which LeBron references, is just when that pick and roll is angled to a side of the floor. So it's

not in the center of the floor. It's either in that left high quadrant or that right high quadrant, closer to the sideline. So thumb down angle would simply be a ball handler with the ball, a player in either corner, another player in the high quadrant opposite the ball, and then the screener. And again, these two guys can play pick and roll, and you play out of that. By the way, a lot of teams call high pick and roll something different. Not every team calls it thumb down. I know when I played for Stan Van Gundy and the Orlando Magic, we had thumb down, which was a high screen and roll with the five man, the center. We also had a screen and roll called Thumb Up, which was with the four man.

LeBron, by the way, will reference X4 and X5. Some teams call the four man X4. Some teams just call them four. Some teams call the five man X-5. Some teams call the five man just five. Horn's chest is another play that we talk about. Horn's chest is when two offensive players are in both corners, and then two offensive players are directly.

above the elbow or free throw line area at the three point line, creating almost like a horns. And then the point guard plays off of that. So the point guard can dribble off either side. The point guard can also throw the ball to one of the players at the horns, and they can get into screening action. This is horns, very simple. Ball handler, a player in either corner, and then two players up here. A lot of times this guy will be the five-man, this guy will be the ball handler, and this guy will be the score or the shooter. Boston Celtics, by the way, when they run their horns action, a lot of times the five-man is space to one of these corners, and they involve Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, and either Drew Holliday or Derek White. Horns chest

is a very simple play, so let's say this is LeBron and this is DeAngelo right here, and this is the X-5. This is the five-man. DeAngelo would dribble off of the LeBron's screen right here, and then the five-man would then set a chest screen or a flare screen for LeBron to this side. And that's ultimately where the ball would go. Another play we talk about is Floppy, which is a play that I ran all the time. I'm not actually sure why it's called Floppy. I do know that the visual for Floppy was this. So I think Floppy means you can basically go to either side. Floppy is when a catch-and-shoot offensive player goes underneath the basket and there's two bigs, one on either side, that can screen for him.

And he looks to come off of screens on either side and catch-and-shoot the ball. This is just a simple floppy action. So you have the two bigs. Let's say this is the five-man, this is the four-man, this is the point guard, and then you have the two-wing players underneath the basket. and let's say the two is the shooter. He can come off either side for a catch-and-shoot. He could also come off the five-man, catch-and-shoot.

And honestly, this is going to get a little discombobulated. I know when I played with Matt Barnes and Philly, we would just dance in circles in here, and then I'd shoot out one of these sides. When I think about the game of basketball, I regard it as so important. I care for it. I love it.

I want to pay attention to it. I want to learn more about it. The game is constantly evolving. And hopefully, these discussions and conversations that LeBron and I have, sometimes with other basketball players and basketball people, hopefully we can do that. Hopefully we can teach and explain and celebrate. Hopefully we can mind the game.

What would you bring? Well, we're going to start off. I brought two bottles. Shamburton, 2012. I brought this, this is special. My first championship year, very special to me, so. It's a good vintage in Burgundy. Very, very good vintage.

And then Lynch, Bosh, 95. I just brought that. I just feel like that's a nice little aftershock. But I'm going to open the 2012 Chamburton, and then we could just, that's okay. It's more than okay with me. I heard he's a wine guy too, so. Well, I told you this.

We were originally supposed to record this first sit down in New York. So in anticipation of that, I actually brought three bottles of 89 Lerwa, blow to the roche, to the office, and obviously some things came up. We didn't make it work, so. That's a great sound, by the way. We were both on the same page. We were both on the same page, which I love. It's funny.

I called your game Wednesday night. against the Clippers, you had just an insane four to quarter. And I was talking about, as it relates to you, competitive stamina, which is simply the ability to do something at a high level and then get up the next day and do it again. And for you, that's happened season after season, year after year. I think the best players have a level of competitive stamina. And it's one of three qualities for me that make a great basketball player. Because your quote after the game, it was, I know I was born with some gifts and athletic abilities, but that only gets you so far. For sure. What are the qualities for you that make a great basketball player

beyond just talent and skill set and size? Knowing the history of the game. Knowing the history of the game, knowing the ones that came before you, knowing the ones that paved away, knowing the reason why you're actually having the ability to actually live out your dream. That doesn't happen without the people that came before you. It doesn't happen without Bill Russell, you know, going through what he went through during the civil rights movement and all those things. Oscar Robinson going on with what he had to deal with, you know, during those times. It does not happen if they're able to just be pure and who they are that allows us to now

perform and do it with no care. also I think discipline at people you know what people use that work so loosely what does it mean to you you have to have the ability when you when it comes to discipline it's like you have to sacrifice loved ones you have to sacrifice loved ones you have to sacrifice loved ones for a long period of time if you want to be great. It is very unfortunate, and you feel it at times. You know the saying if it's too hot, get the hell out of the kitchen.

Sometimes you just got to get out of the kitchen because it gets hot. But you have to have a discipline to sometimes you have to sacrifice loved ones in order to be great because they don't understand. And that's okay. They don't understand what it means to like I am getting up every single day at 5 or 6 a.m. And when I get home after everyone leaves the gym, I'm going to take a nap. So now you're sacrificing your loved ones

because you're not spending time with them. And when I wake up, I'm probably going to train again and then I'm going to have dinner. And then I'm going to bed. And I'm going to do that every single day for a long period of time. That's sacrificing and discipline. And for me, I was 18 when I came into the lead.

So I got my best friends from high school that's now in college. I got one that's at Ohio State. I got two that's at the University of Akron. I have another one that's at a school in West Virginia, Fairmount State. And they're calling me, telling me, oh, you got to come down to the,

you've got to come down to these parties. You're not going to college. You're never going to be in college. And I couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. I look back on it now. I wish I would have done a few of them. I'm not going to lie.

I'm not going to lie. I did. But then the third thing, JJ asked, do you really love the game? Like, do you really love the game? And I'm not just talking about like wins and losses. Do you really love the process of the game and everything that happens before the referee does like this?

That's the easy part. You know this. You know this. You was one of the first ones. in the gym one of the last ones to leave. Everyone sees when the cameras are rolling and the 20,000 fans are there and the cheerleaders are dancing

and the popcorn is popping and the celebrities are sitting in a celebrity role. But like, who has the love for the game when nobody is there? You know? I love all of that. And it's interesting, the love of the game part is so funny to me because I think there's a distinction

between loving the game, i.e. the game, the actual competition itself and what it means to actually love the game and everything that goes into that. You hear guys all the time, I just want to play. I just want to play. Okay. Do you want to do all the things that are necessary that lead up to playing the actual game? The guys that say, I just want to play won't, their career won't be long. Yeah. Because they're not going to put in all the other, all the intricate parts of what to get to that point. That's only going to, it's not going to last that long. It's not going to last that long.

You won't have a long, a long, sustainable career. And that's okay. Some guys, I mean, you've been in a locker room. Some guys don't really care about playing a long time in his league or having a sustain. You have, so sometimes I look in like some of the all-star locker rooms I've been in. And you see a guy one year or you see a guy maybe two years. And then he's not in the locker room anymore. after that.

And you just, like, wonder to yourself, why? You know, you don't know. You don't know if it's the max contract that he got after he made the All-Star team. You don't know if now they know them by one name for one summer, you know? You just don't know. But it's like if you want to,

if you want to be great and want to be, like, legendary or not even, I don't even say that. If you want to maximize everything that you have with your career and your ability, then squeeze the fuck out of that limit. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. I want to talk about each of those three things a little in-depth, because I also have

three things. But the history of the game part's interesting to me, because you brought up Oscar Robertson. And whether the casual fan knows this or not, Oscar Robertson sued in 1970 for a free agency. And that court case took six years. So the NBA really didn't have any form of free agency until 1976. Side note, in 1977, at the time in free agency, you had to compensate the team that was losing the player. So Gail Goodrich left the Los Angeles Lakers and went to the Jazz.

The Jazz compensated the Lakers with some future draft picks. One of those picks turned out to be Magic Johnson. It's pretty interesting. You talked about the discipline. It's pretty interesting. That's pretty cool, though. It's like soccer now. Yeah.

It's like soccer. You've got to compensate the club. There wasn't real unrestricted free agency. John Conkack was the first guy, and I was like 1987. Right, right, right. It just didn't exist. Right, right, right. The reason, I mean, I didn't make as much money as you, but the reason I got to make a lot of money in the NBA is like it's a direct line to Oscar Roberts.

Yeah, for sure. You know, let's celebrate that, right? You talked about the sacrificing loved ones. I always felt like my pursuit was so selfish. Yeah. And I would acknowledge that to my wife, my kids, whatever, my friends. Yeah. It was so selfish.

It was like the only way that I knew how to do it. The only way. That's it. So you touched on those things. My three things are competitive stamina, which I'm going to get to in a second. The love of the game is one of mine, for sure. Caring more about your craft instead of the other stuff that doesn't matter. is a direct quote from you.

And then the third one, I think, is basketball IQ. Yeah. Basketball IQ. I have described Nicola Yokic. I've described you as having supercomputers. Like, your processing speed is a little different. I put James Hard in that category. I put Luke in that category.

There's a number of guys that have, like, a different processing speed. Some of this stuff, love of the game, that's a little. bit of just desire, attitude, all that stuff. Competitive stamina, same thing. Can you develop basketball IQ at the highest level? You can get a little smarter as a player. Can you develop it as a highest level? When you brought up basketball IQ, the first thing that came to my mind, I started thinking

right away, I was like, are you born with basketball IQ or are you taught the game the right way and now the basketball IQ clicks on? like I was literally just when you was explaining that because I come from I come from I believe great coaching you know from my literally coach Frank Walker senior to my at the time AAU coach coach Drew Joyce to my high school coach who was a former college coach coach Dan brought and then my AAU coach took over when coach Dan brought went back to college basketball I'm thinking to myself I'm like I I was taught the game the right way. But the one thing that those coaches always told me, they told me that I had an uncanny ability to process information faster than anyone they've ever seen. One coach, and this is, I know you're going to smirk about this,

there's guys in the NBA that if you call a play or a coach draw to play to one side of the floor they can't switch it in their head and do it and say let's run it to the other side without the coach drawling on the clipboard I've never understood that and I don't know

I've never understood that so if I say we run a thumb down angle we're running on the right side because I have a left hand point guard he wants to come middle to a strong hand he has the ability to hit the pocket pass with the left hand has the ability to throw ahead he's lefty and also has the ability to throw back on the shake.

But if I say, hey, we run a thumb-down angle on the left side because now the right-hand guard coming right, I've had teammates just like, oh, what do you mean? Coach is always, in practice, we only ran it from this side. Yeah. I could flip a play when I was eight years old, no matter if it was just passing cut, no matter if it was, let's run flex,

but let's start on the left side. no matter if it was just, you know, let's D-H-O, D-H-O driving cake. The last one, all right, now let's just drive the baseline, baseline, drive, drift. If the forward on the left side is looking at the ball, you can slot cut. I could do that. I was doing that stuff when I was like eight, nine years old, and my coaches would just be blown away, and I would just, I wouldn't know where it came from. I have no idea.

So to get back to your question, I think I was born with a sports IQ, and it could have been any sport, but I just think basketball was the one that I, like I was, I chose, and maybe I was chosen to do that as well. And I just took it to a whole, as I got older, and your mind gets, you start to, you start to live it, you start to want to be a part of it. You start watching, I started watching the games, you know, when I was like 19 years old. When I first started, I was watching just a fan. I was just a fan of Michael Jordan and Anthony Penny Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill and, you know, those guys, I was just a fan. But then when I started playing the game, I actually started like studying what those guys were doing out on the floor and what teams were doing, how teams were guarding, how coaches were coaching. you know, sub and patterns, you know, time of possession. You know the one thing that kills me, JJ, in our league.

I'm going to tell you what kills me. Tell me what kills you. The two-for-one shot at the end of quarters. Are you going on an anti-crusade against the two-for-one? I understand why the two-for-one is important. Obviously, it's numbers. You get two possessions, the other team gets one possession. In theory, it's a free shot.

In theory, it's a free shot. But what people sometimes don't account for, the four or five possessions before that, are we on a run, are we on a heater, have we gotten a good shot over the last two and a half minutes? What is the other team doing? Are they in a great rhythm? If we haven't gotten a great shot in two and a half, three minutes,

and we've been turning the ball over, why am I just going to dribble down and shoot a 40-footer with 33 on the clock? Why not get a great look? Because that great look at the end of the third, even if we get one shot, may give us momentum going into the fourth quarter. Right. You know, it's interesting because I think it does fuck with the flow of the game. And as a player, I felt that as a broadcaster now where I'm calling games, you have such a good feel as like an outside observer of this action. happening. So end of the second quarter, you're going into halftime with the lead. You've

established, let's say, a pick and roll partnership where you're getting a good shot every time down the floor. On the other end, you're getting stops. You're getting stops. So the other team's having, why are you, you're right, why are you going to just jack up a 35 footer? Just go to the pick and roll, rely on your defense. Now, boom, you go into the half with essentially the same momentum you would have if you get the two for one yeah yeah by the way you shouted out your coaches i i want to say this because i think there some of it is innate with basketball i yeah yeah some of it is the way you're taught uh-huh some of it is going back to your point about discipline the dedication to the craft i got i got a i got a shout out my coaches because delmar irving Keith haines dick wall my early

coaches for the run of jaguars yeah they taught me how to play they taught me how to play with toughness. I get to JV. 8th grade, Chris Morris, Billy Hicks. Then I go to Coach K at Duke. So by the time I got to the NBA, I knew how to process and think the game. It wasn't new to me. It wasn't new to me to think the game. You also knew what was bullshit and what was not bullshit. There's a lot of bullshit that gets taught in our league because our league has been feast off potential. Guys with potential,

they come in and say, this guy has potential. We have to, if it's not year one, maybe year two, or not year three, or maybe year four, or are we going to pick up

his option in year four? Like, it's been grasped on potential. Like, that has been, that's the whole thing of the lottery. The whole thing of the lottery, you pick one through 13

or 14. I don't even know what it is now when it cuts off like you've been a lottery pick. But it makes sense why those guys that's like 16 to 30, 16 to 42, why those guys be on real contending teams making impacts? Also, why is it the same teams that always draft well? And the same teams that always draft poorly. I'll tell you when I get my team, the teams that draft well, those guys will be working for me for sure. Just you get to offer a bag. Yeah, for sure. You got to get it.

OKC does an unbelievable job with that. That's a fact. That's a flag. I was thinking about, you know this. So by like the end of my first year with the Clippers, we realized all of my catch-and-shoots stuff, I wanted to come over left shoulders. Yes, sir.

Right? I want to come to my right. Yes, sir. And so for the next three years, every single time we drew up to play was to do that, right? When I got to like Philly, to your point about like guys, understanding this, I got to, like, Philly and New Orleans, the coaches would draw up a play in the huddle, and I'd be like, no, no, no, I want to come over my left shoulder, just flip it.

And I'd walk out on the court. And then my teammates would be like, oh, what am I doing here? You know what I'm like, no, no, just flip it. Which guys, by the way, the processing speed, I mentioned a few guys, guys you played with, guys you played against, that you think have that sort of high-level basketball IQ? Réjean Rondo? Yeah. For sure. He has, he can process flip, do things on the go.

Like, it's very weird to me that he's not coaching at a high level. I think it's because he doesn't want to do it. It's a lot. It is a lot. It is a lot. And who wants to deal with all these rich entitled guys all the time? You guys make too much money. It's just a weird thing.

You guys make too much money. It's just a weird thing. Let's good a cheers, man. We're good a cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you for the wine, by the way.

That was amazing, too. Going back to that competitive stamina thing, because I was calling the game, and I knew this because I played in L.A., but Clippers' home games against the Lakers is not really a home game. Half the crowd are Clippers fans. Half the crowd are Lakers fans.

And so the arena felt very subdued, you know, because you guys were getting your ass kicked. Getting our ass kicked. The body language was bad. I think I even mentioned that on air. You just saw it in the huddles. You saw it coming out of timeouts, going into timeouts. You saw it when guys were getting subbed out.

It was just bad body language. And then, as Darwin Ham said, you decided to put your cape on and lead this comeback. You outscored the clippers by yourself in the fourth quarter. In that moment where you're down 19 in the fourth, it's a dead game, you know, your team is, I call it like letting go of the rope. You know, Dr. River, you just always say that.

Don't let go of the road. What goes through your mind? You probably got a few minutes to try to change it, or you're going to get pulled, knowing it's a back-to-back, knowing that, okay, we lose to the clippers. We got our ass kicked, okay, but we can't then the very next night lose to Washington as well. So I go out there down 19, you know, with the lineup, I believe,

the start of the fourth lineup was myself, D. L.O., Jackson, Hayes, Tori, Prince, Cam Reddish. So, you know, coach drew up a play. First play, I believe, we drove up horns, horns chest. And they fucked up, they fucked up on the horn's chest. So we ran it again. And this is another thing that bothers me about the NBA, too. Why do we not continue?

Just run the same thing over and over until they stop it. Guys were run and play one time, then you were scoring, and they had changed the play. But anyways, we ran it again, and they fucked it up again. So, I mean, for me, if I see two threes go down, I'm going to check and see if it's a heater in this right elbow for sure. And I hit another one. And at this point, now I'm feeling really good.

I got a nice bounce in my step. We're getting stops. And, you know, I take one down the right wing, and PJs picking me up in transition. And I rarely shoot the ball on the run, you know, especially if the ball's in my right hand, I rarely shoot it. But I had a bounce and I had a feeling. I felt like I said, if I can make this one go, I know. This is when, like, NBA jam you're on fire. You know, if this one goes, yeah.

And I let that one go from the right wing by their bench. So I kind of almost bumped into T-Loo, and they call a timeout. That's when I knew that the momentum can change. You know, the momentum can change. And once, you know, once the ball, the snowball gets going down their hill, you know, snowball turns into the avalanche, and the avalanche just turns into, it's over with. You know, so I just felt good at that moment. A few things there.

So, like, with the three ball, we've seen it so often now, no lead is really safe. No. Think back to early in your career. I came in the league in 0-607. I played no minutes my first two years. But you know what? If we had a 19-point lead going to the fourth, I might get all 12 minutes of garbage time. For sure.

People would clear their benches. Yeah, for sure. This was 15 years ago. For sure. People would clear their benches with a 17-point lead to the fourth and, Nine minutes to go. Yeah, for sure. You can't do that anymore.

You can't do that anymore. You know why? Because I believe in 08, 09, or whenever that little light-skinned fucker came in the league, that's in Golden State, he changed that whole narrative. He did. He single-handedly changed the no lead is safe. It's like Pat Mahomes right now. It's interesting you bring up stuff because I think there's a long, a long, you know, a long, history of great players that have impacted the game and you can see a lineage between different

skill steps right this uh michael de cobi yeah right you can you can see that yeah i don't know that there's been a player that has influenced the game more than step and you can certainly point to like harden for sure in that era damian lillard for sure but it you're right it started with stuff When they come to influence, since I've been watching the game, since I've been watching the game, the most influence on the game. And obviously, we know what Mike did for the game. Sure. You know. Steph and Alan Iverson are the two biggest influential guys in our game since I've been watching and covering it, you know.

One, they're 6-3, 6-4 if you want to. Steph's not 6-4. If you want to look on the back of a basketball, You know, you're always a lot tall on the back of the, back of the basketball card. You know, Alan Iverson and Steph, they were just so relatable, and kids felt like they could be them. They were there, they were guys that was not always counted on. They were small in stature. And they just defined the odds.

So you got AI who's like, unbelievable crossover, cornrows, arm sleeve. We wear arm sleeve. Everyone wears arm sleeve now because of Alan Iverson. And he's going in the trenches, you know, laying it up over Biggs, whatever the case may be. And now you have Steph who's shooting over the Empire State Building. You know, it's just like those two are the two most influential. When you say the game, how they change the game, and the kids, and, like, those are two guys that you just wanted to watch every single night. I have a, I have an arm's sleeve because of our night.

Like, no bullshit. Listen, no bullshit. One of my tattoos is because of Alan Iverson, for sure. And Steph, I think, he changed, like, the influence with Steph, I think, is, like, he fundamentally changed how we viewed how the game should be played with the three-point shot. Do you think, because part of the Steph thing in this three-point revolution for a fan is that we have now simplified the NBA.

All right, we're just going to shoot a bunch of threes. Yeah. My question to you, going back to that basketball intelligence piece, does the game require more basketball intelligence now, or does it require less than when you first started? From, you can't ask me that, because I'm always signed on basketball IQ. Yeah.

Always. I think throughout the regular season, you can get away with a low IQ team if you're talented. You can get away with it in the first round and maybe get away rid of it in the second. around. When you get to the conference finals and you get to the finals, obviously, the top four teams in the conference finals, they have players, unless the team just happened to hit a heater and they just get lucky. But the top four teams normally are going to be the teams

with the best players, for the best coaches, and what's going to separate them is now the basketball IQ kicks in. Because there's moments in the game that a coach cannot prepare you for, film can't prepare you for, the history of the game can't prepare you for, where you have to have a basketball IQ to make adjustments right away. And if you don't have that level of mind frame or capacity, then a team like Denver, who has one of the greatest IQ guys that we've ever seen in Jokic. You know, Golden State, Draymond, Steph, any one of my teams, if I played you in the finals, myself, and when I won in 20, it was myself

and Rondo on the floor. So I think that those things, those things help. I believe that when Golden State beat Boston, it came down to IQ in the finals. Because Boston, to me, had the better talent. Boston had the better talent. But it came down to IQ. People say experience IQ. I made this comment the other day about Tatum. It feels like with him, the reads are quicker.

Making the right play, it's just quicker. He doesn't fight the game as much. I did the details thing for ESPN. Yeah, yeah. During that finals, and I did, I did Clay, was the first episode, Steph was the second episode, Tatum was the third. And so I had all these Tatum clips I got to go through and break down. I don't, never watched the episode. They, you know, it's behind a paywall.

But, you know, what I saw was on the isolations on the wing. So a lot of times would be in the slot, the high quadrant, right? And they've given him space. They would bring that low man over early. Sometimes it was Draymond, but not always. Sometimes it was clay. And very rarely did he end up getting the Golden State Warriors into rotation. Now it feels like he's just making the play off the ball.

Now, it did happen a couple times in that finals. But it wasn't as quick, and it was rare. And obviously with their personnel, like it's different now with Porzingis. but I think that's part of like the growth. So even going back to like the question about can you teach basketball IQ, in some ways it's an innate, but in some ways if you're studying it and doing it, you can see the growth in a player. Yeah, because I mean, you know, there's a great saying that says the best teacher in life

is experienced as well. And we look at Tate, I mean, he's 25 years old. He's 25 years old and I believe he's been to the conference finals four times. I've been to the, obviously, the NBA finals once. He's 25. I mean, I didn't win my first one until I was 28. I think Joker won his first one at 27. I think MJ was 28 as well.

Kobe without Shaq was around. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, you know, I think we have a, you know, we have a lot of expectations on JT, but he's experienced a lot of winning in his career. so far. And obviously, we, you know, everyone wants to see him get over the hump, but four conference finals in a finals appearance before age of 26 is, that's elite. And like you just said, he's continued to grow and, you know, they are in a position where they can make another title run. And like you said, personnel helps, you know, Adam Prozingus and

getting Drew for a bag of lace potato chips. That helps as well. That helps as well. But, you know, J.T. is definitely the, you know, when you, when you go and you start scouting for Boston, he's the, he's the number one guy for sure. Basketball IQ, to me, when you were earlier than me, when I first got in the NBA, though, what that meant to me in some ways was being able to remember a play, honestly, as simple as that. Being able to recognize patterns. You come out of an ATO, okay. Oh, my God. There's a misdirection here. I know there's going to be a pin down coming, right? That's pattern recognition. Offensively, defensively, it's just making the right read. No in the game plan. Like,

oh, that's basketball IQ. I think what's interesting about today's NBA is what smart coaches do and what smart players do, which did not happen when I first got to the NBA. Nearly every possession, all you're doing is trying to find the right matchup. A target. You're playing chess on the possession. basketball yeah and that to me is the biggest difference yeah that that never happened bro i i was watching a game i was calling a game actually guy had the ball good offensive player had the ball at the top of the key and they're playing the clippers and ended the shot clock seven on the clock another guy off the ball is being guarded by kawai leonard and he comes up to set a pick and roll for the guy with the ball and it makes no sense and i'm like that's just

low basketball IQ. Keep Kauai away from the ball. That is low basketball IQ. That is low basketball IQ. That doesn't make any sense. And that happens a lot in our, and I'm going to go back to when you first started, you said remembering a play. How many guys fuck up a play out of timeout burns me alive? It burns me alive that a coach can sit there and guys, all five guys, 10 eyes, are looking at the play and they come out and timeout and fuck it up. Bothers me so bad. but yeah like you said you knew like when you played you had two reeds I'm coming off left right and if the big is not up I'm shooting that bitch and it's and if the big is up I'm pocket passing yeah what else are we talking about well the one other thing but the one other thing

sometimes the big would be back right and I'd get the stun off the pastor you get the stall of the pastor so like when I played in Philly they would do that off Ben and then I would just kick to Ben and he's got a head of steam going down the line. Well, I mean, and when being... You got to read the nail guy, too. You got to read the nail guy too. I had, I don't kind of like underestimate. Well, that's not.

Well, that's not... Well, yes, I agree. I agree. I was more thinking with the clippers. I was thinking more of the clippers. Pocket to... It's so weird, though, because, you know, even, like, the coverage on catch-and-shoot stuff,

and there's not a ton of catch-and-chute guys, right, anymore. Like, you're not running floppy. There doesn't happen a lot. But, like, when I first started running it, or, like, Ray in Boston. When you're running that, you would always stun up with the big. With the big. And the pocket pass was always there.

Once teams started playing more drop coverage, they just kept the big back and catch and shoot. And so a lot of times that help would actually come off the passer. So if they knew we were in a catch and shoot play, kick to me, the help comes off the pastor. Then it's, I got to make that read back to the top. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, because now offense is so more extended now. You know, the big could be the guy that can help up a little bit because, You know, if you look at like Rip Hamilton, you know, at the time, he wasn't, he wasn't coming off their floppy down action going to the three-point line. He was coming off more elbow action.

So you can kind of, you know, contact help with the big. And then mostly when we, obviously, when we came in the league, there was a point guard in the front. There was another forward at the free throw line. And there was two big. So even if you did get extended a little bit, when you made the pocket pass, at least the other big X-4, X-5 could come over and help. now, well, like, you know, in Boston's case, it's five guys on the perimeter at one time. Nobody's in the paint.

Nobody's in the paint. You have Drew, Jason, you know, Brown, you know, Prazingis could be at the top. He could be, you know, you got Derek White. They're all over the place. So, you know, the level of where you help from has changed a lot. Because the bigs in basketball history have been programmed to help no matter where they are,

and that's where the IQ comes in, too. You got certain bigs that you know if I just drive this slot, and they say, don't help strong side shooter in the corner. That is the easiest three. You just know that there's certain bigs that he's going to leave no matter what because he's been programmed his whole life to protect the rim.

Um, I think we wrap there. Because if I, if I go to the next thing, we're going to talk for another hour. Yeah, because I can talk. No, no, I'm serious. Like, because, I mean, that was, that was legitimate. What I had is episode one. All right. That's been fun.

How was it? Yeah, just keep rolling. How was it? Supari. That's my, that's my, that's me. Only okay. You know, we got room for improvement. This has been episode one of,

mind the game. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Hey, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I am so excited to tell you all about a podcast from Ballin Studios called Redacted Declassified Mysteries, and it's hosted by the incredible Luke Lamanah. From covert government experiments to bizarre assassination attempts, redacted dives deep into the astonishing true stories of uncovered secrets, lies, and deception within the world's most powerful institutions. Stories like the mind-bending truth behind Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were smuggled into America to advance U.S. technology and intelligence during the Cold War. Or the shocking story of Charles Manson and the CIA, revealing how a notorious

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