Miss Me? - A Guide to Cinema Etiquette (with Sabrina Elba)

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

Jordan Stephens calls up his friend Sabrina Dhowre Elba to swap tales about people who just don’t shut up in the cinema, and if there can be anything more effective than shhh. They also share their experience of watching The Odyssey (not in IMAX), and go into what led Sabrina to swap a potential law career to start her own skincare brand, and how ethics come into play there too.Get weekly cultural recommendations from the Miss Me? Library every Friday at patreon.com/missmeFollow the show on instagram and TikTok @missme.4evaYou can contact Miss Me? on email at [e-mail] or via WhatsApp on https://wa.me/447849030711Producer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Katie-Louise BuxtonVideo Editor: Noah KleinProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Ellie Clifford & Dino SofosMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You need theme music. Hello, we do. We do have theme. I think we have theme music. Anyway, welcome to Miss Me, everybody. This is a special episode on the basis that Makita is having a break, much needed. And so I actually am stepping into the Miss Moonland with a friend of mine named Sabrina Elba. Hello.

There's applause. There's like cheers. No. I was like, what's going on? Why are they do you? I know, but it's actually kind of, I feel like I'm trying to think in my head, I think it's the first time that I've been deafing.

One of the second time actually that I yet. I don't often do the thing where I've like bringing someone else into the Miss Me World. McKee has also always obviously been the one kind of bringing that energy. And so, but when I was asked, you know, who would you want to do the show with? I don't know.

We saw each other recently at So Farmhouse. Yeah. And I thought, wouldn't it be cool to speak to Sabrina if she was available? And then I fainted because I was so honored and humbled. And I was just like, oh my God. What the hell is going on? No, honestly, I was so happy to see you that day. I didn't know if you remember I was acting like an idiot.

Yes. Just because I don't know, I never get to see you. We never get to chat. And just anyways, I'm a fan and a friend. That's very kind of you. I think I also, I too, I felt, um, unsure of how to handle the compliment. When you did say to me the second to last time we saw each other that you watch some of my stuff and like you like what I say, obviously buzz in.

Obviously, um, you know, I've had some, I already had some preexisting relationship with Idris. He also was very complimentary to me before some random defender event and it's hard for me to process, I think, because, um, well, and also, you know, a lot of people say a lot of things. things like that, you know, but you're just, you're just learning you're a very cool guy is what's happening. Is that what it is? I rebuke that and I have many people who would also rebuke that, Sabrina. I don't know. I don't know. You guys, you, you were cool. You're very cool and you, the reason why I guess to give the listeners like a further indication of why I truly believe in the coolness is because you and I were actually, I'd say the proper introduction was via,

Isaac, right? I meet your friend Isaac. Yeah, yeah. Who is an incredible man who I love and also just any opportunity to shout out and give memory to Jamal Edwards. He is, Jamal Edwards, yeah, introduced me to Isaac

when he was alive and then Isaac and I stayed in touch. And then Isaac once hit me up and said a friend of mine, Sabrina Elba, is putting together a night called S-Labs at the top of, oh God, where was it? Coco. Coco? Yeah, this is two years ago now, is it? Three years ago.

Two years ago. Yeah. And you're doing these sessions, right? You were doing these sessions in conjunction with your skincare. Yes. But it was interesting. So what I loved about it was the setup was unusual, right? It was kind of invite only and it was very much discussion-based. Yeah, it was. It was an exploration of creative wellness. is what anyways we thought we sounded very sophisticated going but basically we just wanted to to give back to creatives who give so much to this world like I mean you guys are constantly sharing your talents and your gifts and your and your thoughts and then who's who's taking care of you and we'd crafted this brand around this idea of wellness and community and for us wellness was

always rooted in community so we thought why not get everyone together and have a meaningful discussion, have something that lifts their spirits, makes them feel fulfilled. And I'm sitting there. And, you know, it's this nice night. We've curated amazing guests. And I'm meeting some people for the first time because Isaac is a master, you know, convener of people. And this person to my left is just dropping gems. And I'm like, what?

And I look at a group discussion. I'm like, babe, who is that? And he's like, that's Jordan. And I was like, oh, my. my days he's so cool like you you were just like you were so generous with thought and you and I literally left going I hope that my future son grows up to be Jordan I'm pretty sure I've said that to you and I've embarrassed myself literally because of your openness and your thoughtfulness and your kindness in that night to just be so yourself and share what you had and it was just such an open evening so I

Sabrina, I'm going to have to, you're going to actually have to stop complimenting me because I physically can't, I can't, I don't know how, no seriously, I'm going to malfunction. It's one of the, I think like, my, my, my haters would say don't feel his ego, but my therapist would say breathe slowly because I actually really struggle to take compliments and it is, it makes me, they make me feel incredibly uncomfortable. But I do, but I do, but I do, but I do appreciate it. because it's nice to know that that resonates. And actually, to give more context, I remember being specifically, I specifically remember being really nervous actually about, about engaging that night.

So because just to give the listeners another understanding, so the set up was basically had a handful of performers on the stage. You were comparing, Isaac was comparing, and then I think it just performed at the end, right? But, but, but, but in between that, You had new artists, established artists, and then, you know, like everywhere in between. But then most importantly, an open-ended group discussion amongst these artists of various standings.

You know, you have like George the Poet there. You had this incredible singer-Shay universe. Like there was just an incredible selection of people. But yeah, I remember being, but in that corner with you and Idris. And I remember actually Isaac was looking at me going, go on, go on. Like, because I was actually, I was actually a little bit like, I don't know if I want to getting involved. I don't know, it was odd, but once I started, I did. Once I started, I was like, right. I can, I think because so very, like, so little now,

do we have the opportunity to just engage with people like that? So I, I would reckon for the majority of the people in the room that evening, they probably felt the same way. And then once people opened up, you saw, we couldn't get people to shut out. Oh, it was amazing. Yeah, it was, that was the moment that stayed with me was when we were actually having like a genuinely authentic conversation about like the you know because also another thing I'd say is that especially I don't know what it's like in other places because I know LA seems to have like this kind of underlying collaborative feel but certainly in London the idea that you would get a random group of artists into a room but conversing I don't know I've not I've still I hadn't

experienced that and I still haven't experienced that really in that space that's that made that quite special because you make I missed the last one. So you've got to come to the next one. I did miss the last one. I know I missed the last one. I was away then. That wasn't by choice.

I wasn't just sat at home. Sure. I'll forgive you. Was it in the same place? No, we did it at the 22. Downstairs in that kind of like red room. And it actually worked out perfectly. But I did,

I love that cocoa room because it's got this like kind of jazzy feel. But we wanted to switch it up. Isaac's just like, I mean, he's, for anyone listening that knows who he is, you just know that he's just like a jazz. genius and can really curate a night. So it was great. You have to come to the next one.

And I'm so happy that's how I met you because otherwise what? I would have like scrolled past you online, not really like I engaged with you mentally. Yeah, in real life. And then I saw your thoughts online. And I was like, oh my gosh, there you go. I'm a fan. And actually, you know what it reminds me of? When you go to a show of an artist that you've never seen before and you watch them,

and perform and you're like oh my favorite artist ever this is so different when you're in the room with someone in the room yeah the energy yeah the energy because energy exchange is so important really is that's very true that's very true and i think that's something that a lot of people want to well actually i want to get back to that later because there's there's a positive energy exchange in the room and then there's an actual really negative energy exchange in a room so recently in a cinema but I don't want to talk about that yet I want to get into that yeah yeah I know we'll talk about it honestly I can't I need to just reserve some of my frustration we're gonna get into complain land later if you we're gonna do some complaining you don't have to complain Sabrina

if you don't want to but but before I get into I just we'll we'll call it classy airing of grievances so just sounds like airing of grievances yeah it really I can you know what I can I can I can hear Makita resonating with that she hasn't heard that if I can hear her class too erring of grievances. Yeah, make it sound nice. It's not complaining. It's airing. Damn. Okay. So, all right. So the other thing I wanted to say was, okay, so, but back to you though, because look, the, the, the thing that is also underlying what we met was this brand. You have, this, this cosmetics, wellness, sorry, give me the phrase again. Okay, wellness. Yeah, it's, it is a wellness brand, I guess, in a sense, but it is a

skincare brand at the heart of it. It's the skincare brand. It is skincare brand. It's called Sable Labs. Sable Labs. That's it. Sable Labs. And I was lucky enough to have a little bag of Sable Labs, which I do use. And I proved that I used it because I named you the ingredients in the serum.

You did. You did. I actually, I didn't believe you because I was like, is he really? But you did. And now I'm like, I'm honored. It was more that I was like, I cannot believe Jordan actually opened something I made. No, I did. I did.

I really did. Because my skincare, honestly, I'm really bad in skincare. something I need to get better at. It's just something I never really integrated as a routine when I was younger. But I really love the smell and the texture and it's just like cool and it's just very calming to look at that. Like it's very, for me, it's very pleasing in a sensory way. But I would, I do want to know without getting too far into that interview mode because I do

want to just ask you also just about random cultural things because, you know, I like your mind. And also you have you have a history of, didn't you study philosophy back in the day? I did, yeah, I was a film major. Just so niche and like, I don't know, maybe good for a podcast. It's great. No, it's great. But so, but so was there like, it was there, what was the moment where you're like, right, I'm going to go into this because as we briefly mentioned when we saw each other at

farmhouse like cosmetics is a big industry, man. That's a hard industry to go into. Why did you decide to take this head on and how has it been? Tell me about it, man. It is hard. But you know what I've realized? business is hard. Entrepreneurship is hard. And it's funny because I always thought entrepreneurship in general meant like you were kind of just like your own boss, picking your own hours, doing your own

thing and to a degree. But it just means you're also working harder than everyone else in the room because you've created this thing and this baby and this idea and you're always going to be the most passionate about it. And I love it. But it has completely like taken over my life. And I had no, like I promise you, I had no inkling that I was going to go into entrepreneurship because I just didn't see. I just I didn't have the wide enough vision to see that in my life. I wanted to be a lawyer in very early age because I grew up in an immigrant family and it was like my older sister was going to be a doctor and I was going to be a lawyer and that was like pre-decided. But I took it on happily because I love to argue and be it sounded like

something that was fun to do. So when I went to uni, I took Phil because philosophy because it's basically the best prep you can do for the LSAT, which is the exam you take to get into, yeah, because the LSAT's basically a logic exam. So I was like, okay, I'm going to do philosophy, prep myself for that. So I did my LSAT, wanted to go to law school. And then I met Idris, and I was kind of at this cusp in my life where I was like, okay, maybe I want to travel a bit. He was going back to London after a couple months. He was filming in Vancouver. And I was like, I'm just going to go. I like this guy a lot. And then if I come, back, I come back, go to school here. Maybe I'll go to school in the UK. Like I just, I was,

it was like the perfect time in my life. And funny enough, I needed that to show me that I didn't want to be a lawyer. I kind of needed that change and like tornado or whatever it was of life just like telling you you can never plan for anything really to kind of make me go, oh wait, I do love seeing the world. I do want to travel. I want to learn more about myself. I want to explore different sides of myself. And Idris is like a serial entrepreneur. You've probably talked to him about some business idea at some point. I feel like anytime he sees energy, he's like, we should do this. We should do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He does do that. And man, that's so infectious. Really? Really? Yeah. Just the desires just like, new, new, new, new, new.

To create the change that you want, to not settle for what's available. And I think that's really what's at the heart of entrepreneurship is to go, I can do that. I can create that. Or, or maybe you think you can do something better or maybe you think you can create something that hasn't existed, but it's this opportunity to just pick up pieces that you're dissatisfied with and, you know, attempt to make your life a bit more satisfying in a way. And I was super unhappy with the skincare industry. And, you know, not from, not from like a, oh, I'm just not finding the right thing, but because things actually weren't working for me.

And I think I probably spoke to you about it on the night, but like black skin has been so neglected in the beauty industry. It's almost, it's been completely the other way around. Well, formulations prioritize lighter skin colors, shades. And then black skin, which is more sensitive to inflammation, more prone to dryness, just a bit bougier, as I like to say. It's harder to formulate for. So you get these blanket products for like a majority of the world that don't work for another actual majority of the world. So it can't be two majorities, but you get what I mean.

And we just get like left. we get left out of the equation. And I was like, why is it that way? Because actually, if you formulate the other way around and you start with the skin that's hardest to treat, you get product that's better for everyone. You know, designing for the margins has always improved the center. It doesn't make sense to do it the other way around. So I was like, this is upside down. I'm going to fix it. So it's not that I was just, you know, in my head, dissatisfied with what the industry was creating. It's because it actually, from a technical standpoint, wasn't good enough for my skin. So I thought, all right, I'm going to do this.

And then it just opened up this like, I guess philosophical, I hate using the word that way, can of worms. And it became so much more. Why? Because it could mean anything when you use it that way. It's kind of ridiculous. Like my philosophy of life or whatever. Like that's, you know. But we'll go into engage with the can of worms then.

Like in what sense would like the creation of this. you know, like I'd say maybe black focus skincare brand. How's what, how's that open the kind of one? Because it opened up so many conversations that I hadn't quite, I think, fully had with myself. Like the idea that I'd seen these ingredients that I grew up with in my household become appropriated in some sense, you know, like baobob, turmeric, al-Qasol, these all became like maringa smoothie ingredients or ingredients that are wine or whole foods. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Completely stripped of their African heritage, their story, you know. And that angered me. And then it was the idea of like black skin always having to be corrected.

And for for black women, that's like a, that is a massive can of worms because the whole time, the world is telling us how we need to correct ourselves. So that language in skincare that's about treat this or fix that can be very triggering. So then there's that. So we always started from a place of care. And I mean, it was just like all these different conversations I started having. And I mean, talk about the supply chain. We both do advocacy and philanthropy with, the agricultural sector when it comes smallholder farmers in the global south, which means we try and help rural people have like a means to economic independence by teaching them how to grow their own food. The supply chain and beauty is so criminal towards smallholder farmers. It doesn't

pay them the right wages. You've got child labor, unsafe working conditions. So it was like this like, like the curtains had been opened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You really saw where everything was rooted. That's so deep. And so you've obviously gone. to try and go on. Beauty sounds so surface, doesn't it? It's like such a surface industry. But actually it was just, it was really something deeper and meaningful for us. So when we launched it and people were like, oh, another celebrity brand.

I was like, no. No. There's depth to it. So not what this is. It's ethical. I mean, to be honest, the only, like with my kind of minimal understanding of the beauty industry, the only ethics kind of base conversation I can remember was rabbits or something. just the idea of like testing.

Cruelty free. Animals. Yeah, like these products haven't been tested on animals, but it's kind of giving me like weird feeling to think that. Yeah, there's a little bit of like, it's so true. There's a little bit of pick and choose in the ethics of beauty. Like people think they can choose just the cruelty free products,

but forget that humans might be harmed in that same formula. Yeah, the labor. But that the planet is harmed. Yeah, exactly. Or the planet is harmed in that same packaging. And it's like, if you're going to be. against one. You should be against them all, really. Like, how do we get to pick and choose ethics? That's a tricky conversation. And I've always been one of, like, we're trying to make the planet better for

people at the end of the day, you know, and it's that treat thy neighbor or protect thy neighbor, or whatever that is. And I think people forget that when I've seen so often, you know, I do a lot of climate work and I sit in conservation groups. And it's, you know, there's a lot of talk about wildlife conservation. and no talk about the communities that that wildlife is affecting, you know, so many communities across the continent. Why are elephants not protected in those areas? Because elephants came in and killed people and destroyed their crops. And, you know, it's always another side to the story.

And I think people can forget that when they start to pick and choose ethics. You've got to look at a big picture. You can never pick one chapter out of a book. Was ethics included? Maybe I'm overcomplicating it. No, you're not overcomplicating. it at all. Like ethics is a big part of philosophy, right?

I find ethics like arguably more like the trouble we have with morality and ethics like I'm always asking my friends like conundrums. I'm engaging in conundrums because I'm just fascinated by. Yeah, do you know what you remind me of Jordan? What? You're like you're very good at applying these things to everyday life. Yeah. So I feel like you should have your own.

like curb your enthusiasm type. Like comedy show. No, no, no. Yeah. Sabrina, I'm in my Larry David era right now.

I swear to go. 100%. I'm in my Larry David era. 100%. I can't. I can poke holes in. Look, okay,

I'll just, now you've, now you have summoned the Larry David into this conversation. I do want to just, I'm going to do the, what did you call it? Something grievances. The airing of grievances.

Classy airing of grievances. Okay. I'm not, I'm going to put a pin in Sable Labs real quick because, by the way, I do want to, I do want to plug it there because it's such a blessing that you've come on the podcast. I do want to say to anybody who is listening to the show and considering a kind of switch up in the skincare. It is genuinely really good. And that's coming from somebody who has a fucking awful skincare routine. Like if it can get me, if it can get me, y'all, it can get you.

So yeah, check it out. And also, can I just say it's also just very, very. very there's two things I want to talk about. One is I absolutely love hearing somebody just speak with passion about something that they do. Makita who do the podcast of it, obviously Makita, yeah. Makita, she just launched a skipping rope, right?

A retractable skipping rope and the passion in which you talked about skipping ropes, unbelievable. That I love the enthusiasm and passion for something that someone's doing, like entrepreneur or not like that just gives me so much joy. I get terrified of people who think It's not cool to be enthusiastic or not cool to be passionate. It is the coolest thing.

It's the coolest thing. It's so true. It is so true. But yeah, my Larry David era is in full swing because I went to the cinema the other day, right? I've moaned about this on my TikTok. The etiquette innocent. Actually, wait, when's the last time you went to the cinema?

Of course you would have gone to many screenings, of course. But like, have you actually? No, but I did just go to the cinema, funny you say. because we wanted to watch the Odyssey. Okay. Where did you go? We're in Australia, so we, well, I'm not now, but we were in Australia, and I watched it at the Hayden. So we wanted to watch IMAX, obviously.

Everyone wants to watch it 70mm, but I found a non-Imax 70mm screen. Oh, wow. So booked it, because I was all we could get because IMAX is like swel out for the next 10 years. It's crazy. Chill. It's kind of crazy. It's crazy. Or does it mean we don't have enough IMAX cinema?

No, no, I don't know. I think I think we need to chill slightly. I feel like Nolan is just maybe king of IMAX, but I worry that if everybody, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know if anyone could afford to just have IMAX films. I don't know, that seems like a lot. I don't know. It's an unreal expectation. 100%. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, but it was, I loved it. I did see Idris in IMAX once because I watched was a Pacific Rim. I swear he was in that. Oh, you saw that in IMAX? And I had a complex for like two days afterwards. Like just everything seemed so small. Everything in my life was tiny. Right, massive kaiju. Yeah, I was like, what the hell? Sorry, anyway, back to it. That's actually a really good one to see. Yeah.

Anyways, yeah, tell me what happened. What happened? What happened? No, what did it happen? No, I need to know from you. So you watched it at a beautiful boutique 70mm cinema in Australia. How many people were in a cinema? How is your experience?

And I want multi-sensory. So obviously, so was it good, basically the screen? Was it screen goods? I actually, I thought it was great. It was good screen. It was big. It was biggest non-IMAX screen I've ever seen. I guess they're the same size, 70mm.

Okay, right. It was massive. This is an old cinema. So, the picture, not a boutique cinema. This is like 1940s or something. They even had like the Great Gatsby kind of interior. It was very cool. Oh, my God.

The curtains open. They had like old school ads. Like 80 seats. 11 a.m. On a Saturday morning. This is a dream. There was only 20 people there. Okay.

And what we were. So I'm imagining now because of this set up, the people, are they skewing older? Was anybody in a suit? Yeah. No, they were, yeah, they were skewing older. Why is that? What does that say about us that we went to go see a movie at 11 a.m? No, I'm imagining someone who doesn't know that there are other cinemas available.

When you're saying that, like it looks like it's been around for this and 70s. I'm like, I can just imagine like, you know when someone's stuck in their ways? They're like, I'm only going to just one cinema. Right, Mike, listen, there's only one cinema. Shall we go to the Hayden this evening? I'm going to get my suit on. Why I'm being British? It's in, is that even British?

It was in Australia. Anyway, but you're right. They're probably what's people, lifers. Let's call them lifers. Hayden lifers. They're watching whatever's on. They're watching it in that cinema in a suit. Okay, so was it, were they loud in the cinema?

Was anyone loud? No. It was the most quiet. It was civil. I don't, I don't think I have a grievance to air, except with the staff. who, this is going to sound so shitty, but I've never, for as long as I, actually, no, I don't remember ever buying a movie ticket that doesn't come with a seat. Oh, right?

Yeah, it's just a free for them. So the way they do it there, free for all. Oh. So we went early to get a good seat. So we go in and then we got told off for being too early to get a good. That's hilarious. We were 30 minutes early So apparently they open it like 20 minutes before

We got told off We got told off and I was kind of sad And then and then obviously it just got papped outside And I was like the only person that saw us Is this person that told us off so annoying I love that story because that just shows like that is true You know what that is true that is true that's a true love for cinema I don't want to um did you did you enjoy the Odyssey

I enjoyed it I heard so much before I saw it which I hate. I actually love watching a movie with no noise because then I can formulate my own opinion, but there was so much noise. It was so hard. So then I was taking in so many opinions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So much. But I actually thought it was the kind of movie that makes cinemas what they are. Like it was, it's an epic story and it felt epic when you're watching it. Do I think there are parts that could have been better? Of course, but I loved it. And I enjoyed it and it cost a shit ton of money, so we better enjoy it. Yeah, I know. I know.

I do think the performances were brilliant. Money could be used for a lot of things. Yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, I thought it didn't feel like three hours, which is a good sign. So it was thrilling. Yeah, I didn't feel that either. So you didn't think that either. No, no, no, I didn't.

And I would be, trust me, I've been through, I don't even want to name it because I don't want to get like, cinephiles coming at me, but I've sat through long films where from incredible, incredibly esteemed directors. and I'm just like boss, you should have made this into a mini-series. I'm not interested in being sat here for this long. Part of Odyssey, it was cool. Yeah. Avengers, it was cool.

You know, like, I can deal with that stuff. Just, I think if I'm going to be there, I need to be thrilled. But anyway. Yeah, there needs to be enough of a story for sure. Yeah, yeah. And I guess it was cool to see like a really, you know, yeah, cinematic representation of little, because I don't really remember the Odyssey as a singular story.

I just remember the moments and then how those particular moments have reverberated into the culture, you know, like the term siren even, you know, I could, I'm such a vivid, yeah, yeah, yeah, of, um, of him being tied to the, to the, to the, to the boat, with the, like, with the, yeah, with the sirens, just remember that. And then obviously, I mean, there wasn't, they, they, they met, they didn't do all the tales, did they? There was a few that they missed, I think. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I can't remember it was a long time. I feel like there was a few they missed, but they were a lot more raw than I think historically depicted at least in Hollywood or

whatever. Like they felt quite scary. The Trojan horse felt deep as like deep. Well, it was deep. That was the whole thing. Like awful. Of course they were, you know, shitting and whatever. We shouldn't spoil the movie for anyone either. Obviously, everyone knows a Trojan horse. But I was like, of course they were. Oh, God, I didn't even think about that.

I know, no, no, no. It's mad. It's mad. And we don't want to ruin the film. But that is the, that was what's really saved it for me was the, again, the ethical. In fact, to have. To circle back to our discussion, but as you have seen it, I thought that the ethical point made at the end about the success of the Trojan horse, I thought it was really deep.

And Zeus's law and like, I was there going, oh my fucking God. Like, it's literally, what is it the phrase? Like, that is the epitome of winning the battle or not the war. Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. That was actually my favorite bit of the movie

and probably why I didn't feel so long because it came to this gorgeous head. Right at the end. And it dawned on you and you're like, oh my gosh, of course. Because they kept going on about Zeus as well, right? Try not to minute. Yeah, I know.

It's so hard. But I don't actually remember taking that sentiment away from the story because we probably learned it in like chunks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know. It really does. It ties up at the end for sure. Yeah.

They keep mentioning it. For sure. Brilliant job, Nolan. Yeah, it was a good job. But look, so I watched Odyssey and I watched. Okay, tell me what happened. So Odyssey and Spider-Man. I both went to see all my, I know, I saw Odyssey with my friend Dean.

And then I went to see Spider-Man on my own. I saw Spider-Man as well. Look at us. We should just gone together. 100% I'll go to my view. That would be a dream. So like we went, although I warn you, this is what I'm trying to say. I don't know if you've been to cinema in London, Zabrina.

Okay. But. I saw Spider-Man in London recently at the Olympic. Okay. These, I, in both films, everyone around me is on Instagram. Ooh. They are on this person. That's awful.

Where did you go? I went there. I was in Central both times, to be fair. Piccadilly and and, well, Piccadilly and Charlotton actually, to be fair, but like, it was, it was, I just, man, listen, one dude when I turned around, the phone was here. It wasn't even like down, it wasn't even down on the seat. It was lifted in front of his face and I'm going, boss, you're, like, this is an exciting film? With the Odyssey, I saw one guy was reading an article on his phone.

He was literally, it was full brightness, right? And then when he wanted to watch the film, he had dropped the phone to his side. and the light was just illuminate the side of my face. Another one having a whole conversation like that in the living room. One dude brings a bag, like they come in late. They bring a shopping bag in like from Sainsbury's, right? Go into the bag. This is me and my Larry David era.

I swear to go, I would have stood up and been like, right, every single person who's got a crisp packet, get out. Like, I will pay for you to leave. That will be me. I will pay for you right now to see another show. And there were no shishers in the audience because you know how you get the people who go, No shushers. You need shushers.

I'm the shushers. I'm the shusha. In Odyssey, in Odyssey, this guy, he was with his girlfriend and they were doing a thing. Listen, I actually do have time for people who are in like honeymoon phase. Like I get that. But you can do honeymoon face quietly. You know what I mean? So they were like, oh, she's like all over him.

I'm like, you're not watching a fucking film. You're pissing me off. You're just like, you want to come here to kiss in the dark. I don't know if like you live with your parents. I don't know what the thing is. but like they're like there and this guy drinks and then he's just flicking the can. He's just going, you're just going, don't with like the ring pull on the can. Like four, 10 minutes.

That's great. You turned into Spider-Man. Your Spidey sense was like the can. No, I've got misophonia. No, I know. I've got this thing where like these frequencies fuck with me. Popcorn I can handle for stuff because I'm used to it over years. But there's other stuff.

There's other stuff I can't handle. And I just turned to me. I was like, dude, stop doing that. And you know what? You know what's crazy? No, that would ruin it. He looked at me and he was like, what? And I was like, you're flicking the, just leave the can.

And he went, oh. And then they left. And then they left. Yeah, they left. They left like 10 minutes later. So they weren't there for the movie. If they're not there for the movie. So you're trying to ruin my shit.

Don't go to the cinema if you're not there. Exactly. People have paid good money to sit and watch a movie. You want to watch. Don't go. But I put this on my TikTok and people were just there. the amount of backup I had was crazy. Like we're moving into a territory now in London

where there's going to have to be like special screenings for people who still remember the art. Did they play the ad at the beginning where it says turn on your phone? No, they fucked it off and I don't know why. I don't know why. Could that be why? Because that ad always makes me go, oh shit, yeah,

let me put it away. I know, they need it. They need a new one. They need to go turn your phone off. At the very least turn the brightness down. to the bottom, if you're going to be on Instagram, sort your life out, because you can go on it in literally two hours, what's wrong with you.

Seek help. Like, this is the, this is the sad, this is actually the sad part of it, right? Is that, that's how that's how fucked people are in this world now with, with, technology is like, you can't wait two hours. And our attention

spans are destroyed. Oh, dude. Just destroyed. And I've got ADHD. That's what that's a symptom of. I'm going to cinema to focus. I'm there like, yes, let me, how can I not look at this fucking huge screen? That's wild. But you know, I have an idea. We're going to pitch this to what's the big chain in?

There's view. Is there a movie chain? View. Oh, Odean. I actually prefer Odean to view, I think. I don't know if that's a popular opinion. But anyways, we're going to pitch. You can order food by the way.

Shout out every man. Every man is lovely. We're going to pitch a Jordan ad at the beginning where you kindly go and remind people the rules of cinema. Oh my God. I'm going to make... It's just Larry David's style. It's going to be epic.

That's what we need to... Who's listening? Nat's listening. They're all in. They're all in. They're all. Nat also is this. But for those, for those asking, you should know Nat is by now to dismiss me listeners, but Nat is our producer.

Nat is a cinephile. I don't even need Nat to comment. I know she agrees. I know she agrees. I know she agrees. I can. just picture it too i can picture you in the cinema telling somebody to shush someone's on their phone almost like you go on the flight and then there's like all the the thing like if you go take a

british airways flight but Sabrina you know what i would do though everyone's in this ad telling you what i would do and this is the same for theatre too i don't know how much theater it just has done but actually we both did something at the young pick but the the the the what i would do is i would literally if i was a millions of billion gabillionaire yeah i would pay for a special agency with night vision Yeah, that come, that walk into cinema and they literally just remove you. That's it. And this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is. What do they look like?

They look stylish is fun. But just, but I just, but you know what? They just have an aura like that. Enforcers. No, I can't say enforcers. Listen, Sabina, let me be clear. I'm a liberal person, right? I'm a liberal mind.

You walk this path already. You're starting it. I know. I know. I don't. What are you going to do, Jordan? I just want to use energy. I just, you just know.

Or maybe, or maybe, I don't know. I'm trying to think of something more like. Like the aura is strong enough that they just give you a look and. Yeah. Or you have a card and you get like three chances. Strii, you get ding, ding, ding, ding. And you get ding, ding. And you're banned for the cinema, brother.

Oh my God. And then you're actually full of ideas. So is this like an elba thing? The second there's an idea, it just springs. you go right well clearly we're going to produce an ad i'm going to use what's it 22 summers or whatever we're going to go through this is this thing we're going to make the ad stick it on the and my skin going to be looking we're doing this we're doing this i'm plotting this ad as we're talking about we're doing this don't excite me no and i and i and little do you know this is you

giving me the ideas i'm just i'm we're shaping them together okay but hold on so the lady and this yeah for real because of the the the speed at which you created my mere grieving where you molded it into an actual potential and even no cinema promotion Is this is is is is is this is stable is that they're gonna be Are you gonna do anything more? Are you gonna other other? Do you have other businesses as well? I actually don't even know are you building out? Or is this because it was it all I don't because it's literally

It must be it's all consuming. It's all I can manage. But Idris is like yeah. I mean Production studio music. label, you know, champagne, wine. Champagne. Like, I lost track. Port noir, a cognac. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I know that.

This is so funny because it's just like, when you have somebody like that, he's got this like really hyper creative, like childlike kind of mind, right? And then, but then also is in Marvel. So it's just like, and that's like the biggest show on Apple. So then he's like, oh, well, I must use this to create everything in my dreams. That's wild. Relax on a beach? No.

Film. Music. Every day. It loves music. I mean, you both love music. I think that's what's so great about you. He does. He does.

Yeah, we actually fell in love over music. The Tribe Call Quest album had come out, the last one they did. And it was like Salonges, Slaunch's Cranes in the Sky album. And like between those two albums, we were just like listening and talking and falling in love. I mean, the Madness is so musical. I have a feeling you're like that. You just like go somewhere and that's just such a nice.

Yes, yes. And a wide variation in music. I get excited by it. I have like a complicated relationship nowadays with actually like releasing it just because of my like career and stuff. I enjoy making it and putting it out for fun. But why is that?

Is it because of the industry like the logistics of making music? It's just I just think it's a super exploitative industry. I mean, most entertainment industries are explosive, but I think with music, it's just like trying, I think people are trying to reclaim or reimagine perhaps that experience of truly engaging with an artist that you love, like truly.

So not like an artist being required to basically do their own PR, which was never part of it for me, 12, 14 years ago, was never part of it. I mean, we peaked in the UK before Instagram was even really, really a thing. So now it's this bizarre thing where I'm using, you know, which, you know, we do and fine. And there's fun ways to to engage with that too. You can be creative to engage with it. But, you know, I just, I like vinyl sales have gone through the roof. I think people are missing that feeling of how can I buy and actually truly engage and invest in an artist I really love.

And I, when I can get back into that space of it, then cool. But, but, but, you know, this, I've just lost track. What is the best way to invest in an artist that you would be to buy their stuff? I mean, the streaming is completely removed the main, or one of the major sources of income for an artist. You know, artists are solely relying on, and it has a domino effect. Yeah, it has a domino effect. So for example, we have a five piece band, right? We're like, we've always had a five piece band because when Rizzle kicks first start,

I'm talking about Rizzle Kits here, not my solo stuff, but when Rizzle Kick first started, we had to have a band to get booked on festivals. If you're a rap-based act, people were like not interested if you just rolled up with a DJ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No way. You wouldn't get booked if you just, if you just rolled up with DJ, they'd be like, no way. There's no way you're getting on this lineup because the line up was full of bands and it was all about music.

Yeah, we were like, what, four years after it was controversial that Jay-Z headlined the Glastonbury or something. I can't remember the year that he, he, yeah, but it was like a whole different different worlds, right? And then, and then, like, after we kind of took a break, rap became pop in the UK. Like, rap became really popular. You got like Dave Stormsy, Skepta, like, you know,

I mean, even Idris was on that, was on that tune, Boise, Boce. You know, like, there was a whole era of songs just like banging in the UK like that, but. And then, but this is what I think, that was after streaming, right? So streaming kind of opened the gate. to rap being popular.

However, I felt, and I might be wrong, I mean, some rap acts can correct me here, but because the main income is from live, people were reducing their live acts

other than some exceptions. Like Little Sims, for example, I mean, shout out of Simby. Like, she has very creative ways of, of handling that.

Loyal Carni, he's got a live band. But like, yeah, so we've come back into performing again recently with this band, and it feels like, people are,

whoa. It's the same, literally almost the same band we had before. But because people I think are like maximizing their profit from live, we've come back and we're putting on this like show, you know, but we're not taking away as much money as we could do. Fortunately, that's not the main intention from the performance. And I understand why someone would rock up with a DJ because they don't know how long that part of their career is going to last

and they're not earning money from anything else unless they have a clothing brand or unless they have a, you know, it's literally just live tickets. what's sustaining them. Gotcha. Because when you're touring with a band, it's obviously more expensive to have such a produced show. You've got to fly everyone out. You're rehearsing themselves, some thousands of pounds to rehearse.

It's like everybody has to get traveled there. You've got a tour bus. You've got like one of, you know, and also the mad thing is, in my opinion, session musicians aren't even paid as much as they should be. You know, that's what's even more crazy. They get decent wages. But like it's hard because if it's someone like us,

for example, or like an act that aren't like superstars, is coming out of that band's, it's come out of either the person or the group's pocket. So it's like after that person's, I mean, this might be boring for listeners anyway. I don't want to get into the whole breakdown of touring, but it's boring. This is, I think people want to know how to support their favorite artists.

Like I genuinely care about that. And I hadn't made the connection that potentially vinyl, of course, you're going against a streaming model. Well, I think, I think, yeah. I think people are realizing that like, for however much you people, per month, was it like 15 pound a month or something, roughly. Your, the whole sell to you is, oh, you've got a billion songs, whatever.

And you think, am I listening to a billion songs a month? Absolutely not. So yeah, sure, I can put on a song. No, you're listening to an album on. Right. So if you add that up, right, so you go, so 15 pounds is like basically an album a month. So 12 albums a year is what you, is what the equivalent is, right? And then you get some extra songs, perhaps if you let it roll on.

But I'm saying that like, yeah, people want to get the vinyl because, It's the experience of looking, holding, feeling, reading, seeing. You know, it's like a real thing. Like, I used to love going through booklets when I was a kid and reading the lyrics. And yeah. Yeah, the inserts. Oh, I love. That's why we turned that S-Labs night, like the Sable Sounds Night, into a vinyl.

I don't know if you know that. Did you get one? You got one, right? You didn't get one. Wait, you didn't get one. Wait, you recorded. This is blasphemy. I'm sending you one.

So there's original performances that we took into the studio. that were inspired by the night. And then bits and pieces of conversation, kind of like miseducation style. Yo, that's so deep. You hear something that would inspire a song. And then I was so nice. It was, and like I have no experience in the music industry.

And I have so much respect for like producers. It's a lot. It's a lot. Oh, my days. It took. I was like, yeah, let's do it. And then we were like in the studio every night. I know.

I was like, oh my days. This is a lot. It's a lot. It was a lot, but I loved it. And honestly, I just, I want the music industry to do so well. It's like an industry that I think we all care about. And people are rallying for film. And I think people want to rally for music, but don't really know how.

Because with cinema, it's so much more obvious. Buy a ticket. Go to the cinema. Support the movies that you love. With music, it's like, I think in my mind, if I keep listening to this person's song, like maybe that's the best thing to do. But they get like 0.000 something. I know.

But I think in a weird way that what I kind of, to kind of go into a lighter note is I do think there's a similar energy happening within both worlds with cinema and with music where there is like an untenable desire for like true creativity to shine through. And even though they're always going to be like huge blockbuster smashes that have loads of money, the charm and allure of like something raw and organic, I think what I'm hoping with all my heart will never die,

even with the fear of AI, even with all this stuff, because you have equivalent stories. So you have like recent cinema, you have, I've forgotten the name of the thing about the sex worker. Enora, yeah, so Enora, that was pretty low budget for a film. That was dope. Then you had obsession at the moment,

which costs, you know, like probably less. I mean, it was a few million, I think, obsession. that's just gone, that's like, it was one I think. Dick, it's 500 mil later. That's crazy. And yeah, so like we have, we have that energy. And then in music, you know, like I say,

I keep telling to people who are starting out, you know, if we can get a thousand people, 2,000 people, you know, to just really engage and love what we create for a long, long time, um, uh, then that's the kind of dream, you know? Interesting.

So has this been this focus for you personally to find like just that niche audience that is that is always there then? Or because is there a feeling with music you want to create for everyone? And I'm asking that because like with the brand, for instance, our products are good for all skin. But I realized early on you can't be for everyone because your product could be but the marketing can't be. You've got to speak to someone and you need a core customer.

You need a core audience. So we very much made this brand for black women, and we speak to and market to black women and share their stories and help tell their stories. And I want to be able to speak to everybody, but I can't. Is it the same when you're creating music? Do you feel like I'm creating something and it is for everyone?

Or do you go, wait, no, I know who my audience is and I'm going to speak to them. Or do you not even think about that? I think, like, I feel, I just, I guess my equivalency, I think if I'm to go across all the things, if it's like writing a book or writing a song or it's the message, you know. And then if anything, I'm trying not to discriminate on who engages with that message, which is hard because there have been situations before where I've had to

perhaps like translate a message slightly in order to reach ears that I think could benefit. fit. Right. I wouldn't say dilute a message. I wouldn't say that, listen, this is actually, I mean, God, we have to wrap up in a second because we have to do a whole listen bitch episode and we haven't got you very long and you kindly are doing this at night because you're literally on the other side of the world, by the way, which is crazy because you're next to the line in the world where it's like talking about on my six. Which you were just talking about. When you said that, that just threw me into a spin because I was like, I'm there. Does he know I'm there? Does he know I'm there? I'm at the line.

I'll be the first one to see tomorrow. Oh my God, that's crazy. That's kind of nice. So, yeah, the first one to see tomorrow, wow. No, I think it's like, yeah, I've battled with that. There was a period last year, I think, where I tried to change some terminology and stuff like that in order to get certain messages I wanted out into an audience. And actually, I felt like I kind of lost the tiny part of myself in the process.

And so I'm now kind of like just going to be as unapologetic about how I'd like, deliver a message and then just hope, hope that the people who need it, hear it because I don't know, I just, I, I, I, firstly, I don't want to infantilize anybody. I don't want, I don't want anybody to, oh no, they wouldn't possibly understand this word or that way. It's like, fuck that.

Like, if you, if you're ready to get the message, you'll get it, you know? And I think, um, but it's, it's, yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's funny because I, I, I start to think, like, I, that's my ambition for the brand is that we create it and don't, dilute the message, people will come from all walks of life. And I think, like, hip hop music is a good example of that in general, right? Like, you know, at the point in which it became popular music, I don't know if it was trying to do that or if it was just evolving on its,

its own. And then everyone was partaking. And it's still hip hop music. So I think there's something beautiful about, like, you wanting to just to not have to do any of that. Yeah, I think, stay true to your message. I mean, you make beautiful music. I think it's obvious. Yeah, I think consistency often as well just I think shines through and the constant the constant battle we all have in life I find is whenever we make a deal to in a vocableness sacrifice some integrity in the search of expansion is sometimes you know sometimes it's just like I don't know I don't know you know like I'd yeah that's so beautiful how you just said that you just dropped that so nonchalantly because you're always this is the thing where it's like it's and and I think I'm drawn to stories of people who maybe haven't done that and it's it's genuinely scary it's genuinely risky you know I will come Vivian Westwood comes to mind you know the fact she never

signed to a big fashion house like she just kept her shit like yeah that that and you get these offers come in and oh man And sometimes you need it. Sometimes you need to. Like there has to be a balance. But yeah, it's tough because it's never feel, it doesn't feel as good.

Yeah. It's true because you don't want to fault someone for doing it either because you write sometimes you need it. I would never judge. I would never judge. It's just knowing that like. Yeah. I have this all the time.

Literally. I have it all the time with, I don't know the inner workings of all the behind the scenes of cosmetic brands. But like it's, you know, that an offer will come in or a potential club, whatever. And you have to literally sit there and go right.

like how does this you know it's weighing the scales right like do I believe in this in this collaborator like it does is this collaborator in line with my ethics because I for myself I have a story I want to maintain and if I can maintain that story with this collaboration then okay and if and if and if it is a bit can I afford to deal with like the the comeback from it you know it's this is a constant negotiation um it's making me think of And maybe this is, I don't know why this is coming to my mind, but so I, so honored to just work on this film that Richard and Ramla Ali, I don't know if you were Richard. Oh, oh, oh, yeah, the bosser. Yes, yes.

I used to, I'm not on Twitter anymore, but when I was on Twitter, I used to speak to her. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, she's so cool. You'd love her. You'd love her a bit. She's gone, and Richard's just as cool her husband who's also her, like, partner in everything in life. And they wrote and directed this movie together that touched on this very serious issue of xenopharmine,

in the Somali community. Men in particular not wanting Somali women to marry outside of the community to stay with Somali men. I experienced it when I got with Idris. Like there was a whole ton of ridiculous backlash of like, I kid you not, why are you marrying a black man? Like there's like a massive identity crisis happening in the Somalians. Don't consider some Somalians, consider themselves to be black.

They'll say they're Somali. They're not black. They feel far from the black identity and they feel closer potentially, I guess, to like an Arab identity. I mean, it's a really, I think it's a sad, yeah, it's quite sad actually. And I wanted to talk about it. And I thought, obviously, I think the best way to talk about some of these things is comedy. Like, I think comedy is just such an olive branch for so many people.

It's a nice gateway. But I found myself being afraid, and this is why you made me think of this to, like, tell that message authentically and not want to dilute it to make it more digestible. for like I would keep thinking like oh my auntie's gonna watch this or like you know she's not gonna get it or like Idris's mom or like you know I and then at what point do you like I really respect people who can just like say no no no I'm just gonna do it but we is it empathy that that I was feeling in those moments is it shame is it you know because I wanted to be able to to everyone to like enjoy this and and and come and watch this and support this but then at the same time this is a very serious, obviously a very serious conversation that we needed to discuss in our community. That's huge. I don't know. Yeah, xenophobia is very, very ugly. It is very ugly. And I think Somalis in particular have such an insular community. We speak to, you know, ourselves. We like keep to ourselves that it becomes like this echo chamber of, you know, of course we're right. Of course we're right.

Like, you know, and oh man, it's really sad. But I hope people will watch it and, and it's also nice to see a Somali film because there's like only Black Hawk down and Captain Phillips. Oh, Somali people on the big screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. There aren't many positive stories. It's such a good story. I will say, though, can I just say, weren't they, the pirates in Captain Phillips,

weren't they like just randomly cast and I felt like, Am I right in thinking that was their first film because they were fucking great in that film sorry like just as actors. Just want to be clear. Yeah, they weren't all Somali but they yeah, some of them like the lead I think it was his first film.

He was great in that film, absolutely. But I think it, that film in particular really pissed me off because I'm from that region in Somalia where a lot of the piracy was happening and it was so one-sided. There was nothing about these young kids looking out on an ocean that was just being polluted

and robbed by massive ships coming in and then them going, well, we've got nothing. And then they paint Captain Phillips as the hero. Why do they get to have that? Listen. And I love Tom Hanks. Don't get me wrong. Tom Hanks, man.

You know what? I love Chet Hanks. You know what? We're going to end it on. What's he up to? Where's it gone? Jack, come back. Thank you.

We're about to do the listen bits with you. But for the listeners, just I would like to end this episode with Okay. Just a voice recording of those of you aren't aware of how Tom Hanks of Captain Felix and Big and Castaway fame. This is somehow, somehow how his son speaks. You know, I wish I was a lot of. fly on that dinner table so badly because imagine Tom gets down like that. I can't just imagine. I don't know. The mystery continues how. Oh my days. He was too busy. I can't consolidate the two things.

Yeah. He lost sight of check for 10 minutes and he became Jamaican. I don't know how it happened. But anyway, look, Sabrina, I adore you. Thank you so much for doing. It's called Meaty Drop actually, the big episode. But for doing Miss Meek. But we're going to We're going to see each other very shortly. To do listen, bitch.