Miss Me? - A Hedda The Times

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss Lily’s new play Hedda, Miquita’s trip to the Scottish Highlands, and the state of the rental market.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

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BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language. Adult themes and the return of Lily Allen from the stage to the podcast. And welcome to Miss Me. And... Action. Hello. Hi, Lil. I haven't seen for ages. It's been a while.

It's spent two weeks. But that's quite a lot for us to not be chatting every day. So I haven't even, like, called you much. I just like, let her get in the zone. That's true. I've been very much in isolation stations. I actually wish I had heard from you more. Sorry. Oh, really? Sorry.

I just thought header mixed with life might be quite enough. That's probably why you need with me. That is true, yes. I've been struggling somewhat with my mental health these past couple of weeks, but I'm okay. Everything is fine.

Tell me about what's been going on in your head. Well, you know. I mean, I have to kill myself every day. Yes. So there's that, you know. I'm like living and breathing the experience of somebody that is very disturbed and upset

and struggling with her life circumstances. And, you know, I've got a lot to draw from, shall we say. So it is... The deep well of things to draw upon. It's quite re-traumatizing, re-triggering things, you know? I remember Kate Blanchett said something once about how she doesn't take, like, the character home. I can't remember what she did.

but she had something because this is like also not wanting to live in this when you go to your lovely room which looks lovely today to like relax and switch off. Yes. I have however

I'll show you on my telephone. One minute call up. Hold on a second. If I try to go on Safari it says time limit exceeded and then I go ask for more time and then it asks me to enter a passcode which I don't have.

And the same thing happens for Instagram. So I've got, I have had two weeks now of no access to the internet or social media on my telephone. I am able to look at things on my computer, but I don't have my Instagram password or my Twitter password. So I can't get on anything. And who goes on Instagram on their laptop, please? So yeah, I felt very cut off, but quite liberating. some ways. Can I just ask what it is though? What is that tool? Because it's sort of almost like a bartering app where you're sort of like... I don't know. I think it might be child

child controls. I don't know. Child control to yourself. Okay. But I know, but I haven't got the pass code. My assistant put it on there for me. And she's gone on a holiday now. So I haven't, I've got no way of getting into it. But it's good. And the reason I did it is because I don't want to be able to see what people are saying about my performance and my play. Do you want me to just tell you the good stuff that's coming through to my Instagram? No, I don't. I don't want to hear any of it.

Okay. I don't want to hear any of it good or bad because I just want to live it and feel it. No noise. I just don't need to go out on that stage and feel like Lily Allen. I need to feel like Hidda Gobler. How about here?

Who's come to miss me today? Who's come to this chat? Could Hedda just swing back? She might be. in the room with us. What have you learned about playing a woman that is supposedly losing her mind? Where's the sympathy for her within that?

I want to know what she's actually going through to have to get there. I think she's just, you know, victim of her own circumstances and also, you know, patriarchy. She's, you know. Are they there? Okay. She's found herself in a situation

that she sort of, you know, has been, somewhat sort of backed into a corner in terms of her relationship that she's ended up in. And then something that, you know, from her past that when she felt things, revisits her. And so she's sort of reminded of a different version of herself. And it's too late, you know, she's already in this marriage that she doesn't want to be in. And she's coming to terms with that. And then she has to deal with another person who is, you know, has not got good intentions.

And so she feels, you know, she's losing on all fronts in all of her relationships. And yeah, she's struggling. But she's, you know, she's had a difficult childhood. She didn't, you know, neither of her parents were really around. and she kind of had a relationship with her dad but it was, you know, complex and... God, isn't this all quite mirroring? Okay, all right, I get it.

But he's dead. Okay. The dad. So, yeah, so it's... I mean, I have a lot of empathy for her, but she's fucking crazy. She does some crazy-ass shit. And she's, I wouldn't say that she's nice.

She's funny, which is, you know, gives you some... Which makes you like her. I think, I don't know. Maybe they think she's a fucking bitch and she deserves everything she got. But I hope people think like, oh, that's a bit sad. I don't think, I think if you're ever studying any kind of character within art,

it's far more interesting to see the why. Phoebe Oliver's really annoying with that whenever I'm talking about someone being a dicker. She's always like, yeah, but it's probably because I'm like, why are we always looking at plain devil's advocate? And she's like, no, no, it's just, there is always a reason why someone behaves in a certain way and it does give you peace

as the person on the other side of the way they're behaving or it's just a more interesting way to look at a character within art. So I wanted to know what she'd been through and I think that shit would send me crazy too. Yeah. I feel like all my pillars have fallen so hardcore

this summer, Lil. Like, I think that I've found it quite hard to not go crazy this summer. And then what is crazy anyway? What is crazy? Because I think I have been a bit crazy this summer. What's happened in my life has driven, crazy. Yeah. Well, tell me. What's been going on? Well, the, yes, the whole losing my house five

months ago has been really, really unbelievably hard. And as you were saying with Hedda, it's like, there's just too much coming up from the past now, like instability. I was thinking about it the other day, what is it I need in life? What makes me, what was I trying to do with my last house? And it's to give myself stability. And that's because I didn't have any as a child. but there was a lot of love and all the other things that you know but there was no stability and no safety within that.

So I think since I've been really young, I've always been trying to give myself that and to have it all just taken from me has felt really unfair actually when it's been like my life's work to give that to myself. So I think understanding that has given me a bit of peace

rather than just like, I miss my walking wardrobe. It's like, no, what's actually going on? Although I do really miss that. I deserved that. I worked hard for that. So I've been in the renter's market. As you know, I was trying to get a mortgage. Absolute fucking nightmare. I found out the building I wanted to buy in her cladding,

which so many buildings in London have and around the country. It's a nightmare and you can't get a mortgage on those buildings. So I was like, right, I was going to rent somewhere for a year and let this building get the cladding taken off. And the renter's market is terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. And you know I've been a renter for a YL. 22 years this year I've been renting in this city.

Do tell. What's going on with the rental market? Well, there's this new thing coming in. And it's so annoying because it comes in in October and I cannot wait that long. So in October, look, all these rights I'll have, but not now. In October, it's the new renter's rights bill and it's designed to transform the private renting system to provide greater security and stability to tenants. giving them more ability

to challenge rent increases without fear of evictions and that's a big one because I've been in places where they've put the rent up by like 700 quid and suddenly you're homeless and we've never had the right

to be like So is that rent control then so are the government saying that they are freezing rents? No that's what it's called in New York isn't it? Rent controlled apartments

Yeah I think so I think that you can't like a landlord can't just be like right okay we're putting the rent up so it's not like New York I don't think it's going to be as great as that. That sounds great. Rent-controlled apartment.

But I think they can't raise the rents without justifying it. This is incredible. They've been able to do that for so long. What is the justification? Raising rent prices. Like, okay, then. It's like, okay, well, inflation. Yes.

Would that be acceptable? Or? That's the reason that they'd use. Inflation, because the market. My bills have gone up, so I'm raising the rents. Yeah. Obviously, I'm talking from, a renter's perspective,

landlords are people too, and you don't know what they're going through, because it feels like, from a renter's perspective, that because all these rights are about to be given to tenants, that they've taken loads of properties off the market because the scarcity is shocking,

and the prices for these flats that aren't of a certain level are shocking too. So let's hear from an estate agent. Let's get the other side of the coin. Hi, I'm Megan 18, and I am the president of Ala Property Mark, the leading professional body for the property sector. So the state of the rental market is varied across the country.

I mean, we are seeing recently this week that Right Move reported that since COVID hit, that rents have actually increased on average by £400 cents. So what we're seeing is rents increasing drastically over the last few years. In London, we're seeing an average rent of just over £2,375, which if you work out how much money you would need to earn to pass referencing checks on that. You're looking at about 71,000 pounds a year. So there's a new piece of legislation that's currently going through. It's called the renter's rights bill. The idea behind it is that it will give tenants more rights in their homes. And there is concerns around the balance between renters and landlords

because ultimately, if landlords are being pushed too heavily, this could then impact them leaving the market as well, which then could further put pressure on rent prices, which would be really difficult. So we are finding that we are still kind of fighting for that balance, and those kind of final ties are still happening. We're finding that things like the Section 21 notice, which was a landlord's ability to essentially ask you to leave for no reason, that looks to be abolished, which will mean that tenants can feel potentially more secure in their homes long term. but we do have to remember that landlords are not immune from these costs of living crisis. You know, those big changes have put a lot of pressure on landlords.

Landlords as a result of that have been selling their properties, so less property is available. And just like when you look at, you know, for example, Hermes bags, the less bags there are available, the higher the prices go. And it's no different with any product and housing is exactly the same. So houses are going up because there's not that many available as there were, you know, years ago. How did the price they go? Yep. So they're going through it too. Yeah, that's, that's it. There's nothing on the market and everything on the market is double the price it was when I last looked for a flat. So yippee. Good time to live in London town. You're never going to

make me feel sorry for landlords. Do you remember the fights I've had with some landlords? Oh yeah. Whoa. Whoa. Oh, yeah. Some spicy ones in Shoreditch in the early North I hate that. I really do and I'm sick of giving me all my money but this is where we're out. This is where we're at. But nice to see what they're going through as well. Thank you. It is nice to see, isn't it?

Hopefully, you know, maybe they'll all have to sell some properties and it will free up the housing market a little bit. Maybe. Get a little bit of leeway in here, but space back. Hmm. Might have to wait until October. But I don't know.

I don't think I can do them much longer. mom's house intergenerational living is no joke yeah i don't know whether you could live with your mom never mind your mom and your nan you have allison come and stay at your house a lot and help with and be a beautiful grandma to the girls not i wouldn't say a lot i mean i love my mother i adore her but there's something you know in the power dynamic of having her come to stay with me I don't know if I could live at hers. Exactly. I actually find it like enough just like going over for Sunday lunch.

I'm like, thank you. I'm going now. That was lovely. Thank you very much. I think I've done pretty well. Also, there's this fantasy I think of it. And also I'm very aware that I'm very lucky that my mom has a house big enough to house me and my dog and that my grandmother is still alive and I get to spend a lot of time with her.

These things are very true and real. But there's a fantasy of living with an older person, your family, a grandparent, where you think they're just in the corner, being sweet and grandparenty and, like, knitting. And that's just not the case. Like, my nan can be cantankerous. She's scared because her mind's going. She repeats herself constantly. You know, I have to help her use the cooker maybe 16 to 17 times a day.

And it's the same thing. I don't know how to use this cooker. So you can go mad. And then your patience is testing. which makes you feel like a fucking asshole. You're like, I'm in the world because of this woman. I can't help but use the cooker. Can't help but take the cooker on.

It's just a bit of mind fuck. So I understand what header's going through is what I'm saying. It's a crazy time. It's crazy. Also, where Mercury is in retrograde. It's just. It bloody is. It bloody is.

Who told you that? Until the 11th. I know that much for free. Have you got an alarm? Counting down those motherfucking down those motherfucking is um yeah it's nice tass like to blame it on it isn't it isn't it you used to do you used to have retrograde ego what does that mean yeah communication is tough isn't it tough tough communicating yeah yeah i mean i don't i haven't been finding that so much for me it's more about like just

like yeah things just keep falling down towers keep tumbling down which is very mercury retrograde but in the face of it you're doing eight shows a week right I am doing eight shows a week, yeah. Bloody how? There's one bit that I keep forgetting to do and I keep getting angry text messages from my director. What? There's one scene where a record player features quite heavily in the play

and there's a scene where one of the characters comes in and I have to go over and I have to stop the record and I keep forgetting to do it. And then like halfway through the conversation, the music will just stop. And I'm like, oh yeah, whoops, I was meant to do that. You just need to tap into the DJ within you. No, I have to do it about fucking six times,

but there's just this one scene for some reason I keep forgetting to do it. I think it's because I have to put like a card on top of the record player and I have to put a record cover away. And so I've sort of like, I don't know, just something happens and I forget to do it. I know what this is called now though.

This is called the business. This is your business, right? Yeah, I haven't got that much business. I vape. She vapes. She vapes. I know. I know she vapes. I was like, how the hell did she incorporate her desperately for her vape into this show?

When we were in rehearsals, I just sort of said it to Matthew. I was like, what about her vaping? Would that be a good idea? He was like, yeah. Very, very clever. I think it just adds to her just like toxicity though, you know? Yeah, I mean, the picture I saw, because I hadn't seen anything. Lily and then I won't tell you what people are saying

but one of your fan sites sent me a load of pictures saying, aren't you proud of Lil? And I was like, good, I really am. And it looked really stylish and clean and modern and interesting. And then when I saw you lying like on your back, oh, you're not allowed to vape on miss me. You're only allowed to vape on the stage, darling. That's a theatre, just vaping away. But I saw you surrounded by a cloud of vapour smoke

and I was like, okay, she's getting hers a little bit. just get a little bit of what she needs at work. Yeah, I mean, I think Matthew is just being generous to the fact that, you know, I might be going through some stuff. Yeah. Give her a little vape. Give her a little sighting just to make her life feel a little bit easier. This is now the second part of summer

and everyone's on holiday. Everyone's having a good time. And I decided to try and take a few days to do something and went to the Highlands with my dad and my brother. Oh my God, how was it? Fucking extraordinary. Lily, I climbed a 3,000 foot mountain. A 3,000 foot mountain.

I don't really try and comprehend that. And of course, that is the top. And then you have to descend, which is just as scary and terrifying. Like, it's easier though, no? Like physically. That's what I thought, but it's sort of not. It's quite hard on your ankles.

It's quite hard on your knees. Yeah, I've got very bad. flexibility in my ankles. That's why I can't really, can't really do squats. Yeah, that's what you're training thinks. Well, it's a, it's a center of gravity thing. I think because my top of my legs are so close to the floor anyway, it's like, it's hard for me to bend them in that way.

This is not height related because I was walking up this fucking... No, I'm being fucking serious. Like, I think it's because I have short calves that I can't really squat. I like just fall forwards. Like, I can't, I can't, but I can't, It's not funny You think that you tip No, I don't think

It's my lived experience I'm telling you what happens Okay You tip in a squat Because of the short nature of your calf Yeah And because the lack of flexibility

Of my ankles Well luckily your bum still looks good Without all those squats Thank you I've completely lost my ass But we'll talk about that another day Oh, here's my burger One second

Lily I'm not finished With my Highland story Let's have a break Let Lily eat a bit of a burger Off air For everyone that might suffer from What's it called again for us? Misophonia.

We take that very seriously Oh, that's a good looking burger We'll go to a break Lily and enjoy the burger And we'll come back For the rest of my Highlands tale Welcome back to our Scottish Highlands episode Of Miss Me

And I cannot keep doing a bad Scottish accent because they don't find it funny no shit my dad and my brother are like no please stop doing that we love you but stop what I did and this might be quite nice for you

I got my dad bless him took a while to send a voice note telling the world exactly how our Highlands tale unfolded over to my father Robin Bailey so we travelled up to Braymar top of Glen She

where it meets the D and obviously that's like this sort of very close to Balmoral and Royal D-side. We chose that because it's a good place for the most picturesque scenery and even though it's full of tourists it's still got beauty and great walk so we went on the Friday we went to the Tom and Toole area walked up Glen Haven which was lovely and very quiet and we're going to fish at Lock and Dorb but there was nothing biting and it was a bit cold

so we didn't fulfill that. Next day we go to the old man of Loch Nagar up to Loch Mewik and great walk that. I think Makita was very excited to be on top of a mountain also a wee bit scared, but she did it and it was brilliant when we were in the river swimming on the way down before the massive beautiful waterfall and then long walk back along Lock

mewark in the sunset. Very nice and great weekend. Lovely food and nice drinks. Cheers. And nice drinks.

Cheers. Oh, your dad sounds so sweet. Do you remember him? Yeah. I mean, not from childhood, but like from recent times. Oh, right. So you don't remember him from childhood? No. Because you would have met him like maybe once or twice.

No, no. He was a mythical figure. Yes, quite. He was really good friends with Kevin, your uncle. He talks about Kevin a lot. Interesting. They were in a, they were in the Warwick Castle cricket team together. My dad was in that too. Oh, cool. One of my earliest memories is going to those cricket games. Oh, there you go. That's probably where my dad met you.

Where the fuck were we? Oh, yes. I would walk 5,000 miles, I mean 3,000 miles. I was scared. Dad was right. When you're at the top of a mountain, it all gets kind of pointy on the ascent. And I was like, hang on a minute. I'm now sort of just on the edge of a cliff

climbing up on rocks. Like it wasn't even grassy anymore. It was like just rocks. And I had a total fucking panic attack. I can realize that I do have a bit of vertigo, actually. And being up there was intimidating. It was like overwhelming the size of things and the drop next to us.

I just found it. really like, oh, I'm actually facing something, which was quite good. Yes, and also, I don't know if I should mention it, because it might be sort of re-traumatizing. But when you talk about it, it makes me think of, you know, your experience in the tsunami as well, having to get up to higher ground. Oh, my God.

I really need to get therapy about the tsunami. I really do. I think it fucked me up more than I know. I think it did too. Some really weird shit started happening in my life about a year after that, but still it really weird shit started happening in my life, but still in my life. I mean, it would be bizarre

if experiencing something like that hasn't. You're so right, because I was just like, death is behind us, like the way their wave felt coming for us. God, you're so right. Right, well, what a great thing to do with my dad and my brother.

I cannot wait for you to meet my brother. Yeah, with the safety of your, you know, strong male figures in your life. Right. Strong, loving male figures. Like, they really love me, and they call me McKee's. And I love it.

And you didn't have those people around you and you were going through the tsunami thing? No way. You do not. But these people are crazy. They're fucking crazy. Like we get over the hill and they're like right now into the lock, not just the lock down at the bottom.

Like the icy cold water at the top of this mountain. What do you mean? Get in. Like take your clothes off and get. Yes, yes. Let's now go swimming in this icy water. My brother, I could. I didn't even get to keep my, I got my bottom half in for about 30 seconds, but it was like angry.

And my dad was like, it is conditioning. Like, you do have to know that you're safe and then it can't harm you. When something is that cold, your body, like, almost like attacks itself and has a panic attack. So again, I did that. Yes, but, you know, you do it for like, it depends. Because, I mean, I do quite a lot of ice cold baths. So after about sort of two minutes, so I go into sort of like, Nirvana state.

Chance. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't get to that, but I totally understand that that's where that's on the other side of I couldn't get there. And then I was like,

fuck, I haven't done it. And I was like, it's all right, you're Scottish, you'll come back. It'll come back and do this. Can't believe I did it, Lily. I can't believe that I got it back in touch with my dad all those years ago and now I go to the Highlands

with my brother and my dad. And I took Zeddy. They loved Zedo. They call her Zedo. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you. I'm so happy for you, babe.

Yeah, man, it's summer. And you don't have the kids. Like, you must be missing the kids as well. This summer is a bit crazy. Oh, my God. I honestly, like, I am sort of bereft about having not spoken to my children for. And this is because they're at summer camp. And with this summer camp, they don't, you don't have contact.

They have no contact. Yeah. I mean, you can write letters. I've been writing them letters, but I haven't received anything from them because I'm at the theater. And I guess, I don't know. I did give them the address but maybe they just got lost in the post maybe they're camping

maybe they're making friends yeah maybe they're just like can't be fun because they're having a nice time but I miss them so much I bet now I miss them so much I bet and actually well it's funny to hear a mother

say this because I was in the supermarket the other day and this kid tapped them mother's shoulder and she went if you tap me one more time and I thought oh it's only four days into summer holidays and then I suddenly looked around and realized that there weren't loads of parents skipping around with their kids going free summertime it was loads of parents looking really freaked out really fucked off and stressed really stressed and I think that there are a lot of parents out there that find summer really difficult whether you're not with your kids

or whether you're just completely with your kids 24 hours a day in a way that you're not usually when they're at school. I think it's a really trying time the summer holidays. I know you miss your babies. But they'll come back and they'll annoy you within a week, don't worry. No, they won't because they're coming back and then they're going straight to Italy with my mom. Oh, and you're staying for the play.

Sorry. That's okay. You're a mum. I don't know what it's like to miss my kids. I miss them. A lot. What kind of stuff do they do at camp, baby? You know, like canoeing and, you know, all that shit, paddleboarding and cooking and, um, dance routines and, um... My God, it's like the parent trap a bit.

It's exactly like the parent trap, yeah. And it's like, um, do you remember Camp Chippewa that Adam's Wednesday we went to and Adam's family? It's like that. Yeah, I think we wanted to go to that. I would have, I would have loved to go to summer camp. Kelly was telling me now that it's like 300 to 500 quid a week for camp here for Leah

fucking nuts I get to I think she goes to work to pay for camp to go to work to pay for camp to go to work to pay for camp one of those nightmare things but I'm happy that they still exist I think there's lots of different kinds there's one that she won't

she doesn't want me to talk about and miss me because she doesn't want any other mother to know about it because it's such a find but I think it used to be a really American thing when we were kids and we just see it in films but now it feels like there are things out there if you've got the money to spend. If you got the cash.

If you get the cash. I think it's probably the last summer my kids will do it. They're going to be 13 and 14 next year. They'll be in the rave next year, weren't they? Oh, God, I can't bear it. I cannot bear it. You literally have nothing to worry about. They are the least likely kids

to want to be in the rave by next year. Don't say that. Touch some motherfucking wood right now. they've already have they met our age or have they already gone over our age of everything?

We were like 12 and 13 I don't know but I was thinking the other day like my mum was four years older than Ethel when she had her first child Oh my God Oh my God

Yep Yeah four years Mm-hmm Four years I did nothing Yeah no And I was the same with Namers

17 is a really really young age. I don't really believe in God, but God help me. I do, I can't, I cannot, I cannot. No grandma's here. No grandma's here today. Can you imagine if I was a grandma

in four years? Granny Lil, no thanks. Actually, they're not allowed to do that to us because we have at least 10 more years of being hot and wanted and desirable in this game. So don't do that to us, girls. Got a lot more fun to have.

Okay. It's lovely to see you, darling. So nice to see you too. It's really nice to see you today, babysy. Are you going to be in this nice room all day? Do you get to sleep for the rest of the day? No, I'm going to, I have to check out here at three and then... You're not doing a show tonight?

Yeah. Oh my God. She's going to be a fun month, isn't it? Let's do this. Also, I'm taking this fucking drug called roacotane, and it's like drying, literally my lips, like, falling off. God, poor Tom, who has to kiss me in the second half. Like, literally half of my mouth comes up on his face.

Okay, and we'll end it there. Yep. Good to have her back. The return of Lily Allen to miss me. I will see on Monday as well. God, we're really eking your time out. Any second around the play that we can get. We're going to make you talk about books.

The theme for next week's listen to. Great, because I haven't read in about four years. No, but the reason I did books, Lil, is because you really do read, though. You're an avid reader, and when you're really in it, sometimes you're reading three to four books a month. So you've got stuff for this. I wouldn't say that's avid, but okay. You don't think that's avid.

See, I really don't read enough books. You know I love papers and journalism and articles, but I don't read enough books. So we'll see how this goes. Bye! Okay, bye! Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. This is a Persefonica production for BBC Sounds.

If you've been affected by anything raised, in this episode, go to BBC.com.ukuk forward slash action line. Hello, I'm Maisie Adam. And I am Susie Ruffel. And together we host the Women's Football Podcast Big Kick Energy.

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