Miss Me? - A Popworld Baby… with Simon Amstell

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Miquita Oliver and Simon Amstell discuss Popworld, friendship and sperm donations.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hi, Kush Jumbo here. My podcast Origins is where the biggest names in entertainment tell me the stories that made them who they are today. This week on Origins is KSI. I did boxing as a joke, if that makes sense. So, no, continue. Did you and Tommy Fury become friends?

No, no, I would be sweating if I was like sitting next to another woman. I didn't know how to talk to females. Listen to Origins with Kuss Jumbo wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds music music, radio, podcasts. Beware this episode of Miss Me contains very strong language and adult themes. Thank you for listening. They said we shouldn't do it. They said it would never work. They said we'd never get back in the ring together again. But today, today we've decided to. 25 years later.

Big reunion. It's the big reunion. It's the big pot world reunion. We're not all here of course, Makita. Are we? Some of us couldn't be here. Who are you gonna mention? Richard the pot world horse. I know you're gonna say Richard the fucking pot world horse. I always felt like that was when we were losing it. That's when I felt like we were jumping the shark. Well, shall we discuss why that happened?

Why we started introducing characters on our pop music show. Yeah. Yeah. Why did Richard the Potwold Horse, and what was the fucking Melon's name? Timothy the Melon. The fucking Melon. Wow, you get a podcast and you just forget about Timothy.

The reason we introduced Richard the Potw horse and Timothy the Pop World melon. Yeah, what was going on? Is because after five years of Pop World, I said to you, I can't do this anymore, Makita. We have to stop this. And you said, no, we absolutely, no, we can't stop doing this. And I said, I think we have to, I don't know what else we can do. And you said, let's do three more months. And I said I think we have to I don't know what else we can do and you said let's do three more months and I said okay and so then there was a talking horse on the show okay I made us jump the shark by not being able to let

go you couldn't let go. Couldn't let go. And I was like, okay, oh my god, what are we going to do? There's nothing left to say to the sugar babes. How do you feel about Potwold? We don't really discuss it. We are still, can we say, we still love each other. We're still friends. This isn't like Johnny and Denise coming back.

Some fake shit. I actually do love you and we talk all the time. And that's, you know, but that's like a really special thing. Yeah, I think people will be able to feel the love between us as they feel it between you and Lily every week, I imagine. Yeah, yes, actually. We've never really fallen out. There was one time that I did just, I think I'd continuously been late or something to meet you and you sent me quite a stern

message that said, Makeda, I'm not doing this anymore. I just can't even imagine being so disrespectful now as a person in a friendship. But I was just not taking it very seriously coming to meet you or a few things and you said, we're not doing this anymore. I think you need to fucking look at yourself. Well, there was a point, I can't remember that message. What I remember was having to, it was very sad actually, because I loved hanging out with you. And I remember being in an edit,

I don't know what we were editing, but you texted, cinema tonight. And I texted back, yes. And the plan was we were going to go to the cinema. I was very excited to see whatever film it was we were going to see, and to see you, my friend, Makita Oliver. And then I'm leaving the edit,

and I call you, you haven't called to arrange where we're going to meet, and I sort of know it's going to happen, and you say, can't do the cinema now, I'm meeting my cousin, but why don't you come along? And I went along, and I met whichever cousin it was, probably not a real cousin, you know the way you say cousin. And I was feeling a bit annoyed

because I had the cinema in my head and I had just you in my head. And so I showed you the text and I said, Makita, look, cinema tonight, yes. Why isn't that enough? And you said, the thing about me, you may have even said the thing about Makita. No, come on! The thing about Makita is that if you happen to be in Soho and I happen to be in Soho, then we could end up just bumping into each other

and doing something spontaneous like going to see Mary Poppins in the West End. And I said, yes, you're right. That is an incredible thing about you. Which we have done. Which we have done. We did that spontaneously. A matinee. Magical. Magical. That is the magic of Makita. But I said to you, but when you text cinema, am I supposed to text back, who knows? Keep the spontaneity. And you said, yes. When you text cinema, am I supposed to text back, who knows? Keep the spontaneity. And you said, yes. Right.

And I thought, I can't get excited to see you. Oh, I'm so pleased it did run this deeply through you because it really affected me when you made me look at that. I was like, what am I doing? Yeah. Why would I make a plan with someone and then completely change it? Definitely continue for another 15 years, absolutely.

But I definitely would never behave like that now. But also, it makes me think about that young person that I was and that you were. We were very young. I mean, I was very young, but you were like, absurdly young. Like obscenely, you were 15 when we started that show. That's too young. Like obscenely, you were 15 when we started that show. That's too young. Absolutely. Well, actually Simon, I just looked you up, which I don't think I've ever done in my life. I think I went on your Wikipedia for the first time in my life. And you are on screen at

14, younger than me. Oh sure, but not like on a regular TV show. No, but by 19 or something you were on like regular, weren't you on Nickelodeon by then? 18, Nickelodeon for two years. It's just this young Simon Amstel. I do feel like we are the most unlikely pair. And I feel it's the most university moment of my life when I met you. It was like, pick these two people from like literally the other sides of the situation and just plop them together and watch love grow. But we couldn't have more starkly different backgrounds. I thought it was interesting always that I came from this world of

media and people who had been celebrated culturally in and around the periphery of my family. I was used to all that. I'm from West London, Labrador Grove, 84, like come on. But you're from Essex, from a family that aren't in the media, no one's on TV. And yet you get yourself on TV by 18. I truly think it's impressive. I mean, probably because you're hunting for all the wrong things, but it isn't, what the hell, why were you so driven and focused like that?

I just didn't have that. Well, weren't we both seeking love and validation from the television for just slightly different reasons? You, well, me because I was like a gay kid in Essex and you because you were raised in a circus of lunatics. Yeah. The circus of lunatics, yeah. It was a good blanket term for that situation.

Yeah, but I wasn't looking for it. You were. I accidentally fell into it. Sure, but you wanted it. I mean, when we did that audition, you were just going to get that job. I remember after you left the room. This is my first audition. Yeah. I remember after you left the room... This is my first audition. Yeah, turning to the producer and saying,

she's obviously the host of Pop World. She's going to drive us insane. LAUGHS But I think it'll be worth it. LAUGHS OK. I think it might be worth it. I think it might be worth it. It wasn't.

No it wasn't. And it wasn't. Cue Pop World theme tune music. Come on, let's hear it. Fuck it, why not? Come on. Oh my God. Is it in your nightmares as well? I was about to say, hi, welcome to Pop World.

Your one stop shop for pop. No, only year one did we talk like that. I would really like to take this opportunity just to, this really isn't just about Pop World all day, I promise. But I did want to talk about the way Pop World was made, like actually, how it got done or whatever. Because in a weird way, it's like great words and great thought can only be on Gardeners World and Grand Designs and University Challenge and QI, like a place for Smart Radio 4. And I think what I liked is that like this this kind of moment of the absurdity of being a pop star which is just a ludicrous thing to be out in the world hello I'm

a pop star nice to meet you or I'm here trying to be a pop star that met with thought and feeling and emotion and I don't know I think that's what was quite interesting. I think what you're saying is we didn't treat it like a pop show. It was a late night comedy talk show pretending to be a pop show. We would look at whatever was on the other channel and we would say the opposite of that. Everything about all the other stuff was not real. It wasn't a real, it was a fabricated, we're all friends with the pop stars, this is shiny, we're talking to the viewer in this patronizing tone, they're probably idiots. Yeah yeah yeah. And we weren't

just taking the piss out of the pop stars on the show when it felt appropriate, we were taking the piss out of television. Yes! oh god, that's it! There you go. I feel so good! So we do this again in 20 years, but I can't... In 25 years? We'll have to talk about why Popwell was good again. But thank god it was you! Thank god it was you!

Because I didn't know that that's what I thought was good. I didn't know that. Whether that was, this makes no sense because it's not the truth, or why do we have to use language that this doesn't, no one uses apart from in television, in telly talk. I still have problems with that now. But that is what makes you great because you're the quality control. Here's what I think your superpower was and maybe still is.

Oh, thank you, Simon. What is it? You knew then and probably still know with precision, detail, what is wrong with a person. And so when a pop star or a band would come in, you'd just take a little look at them. You'd look at the video, you'd look at the clothes, you'd look at the hair and you'd go, okay, here's why they're, in your words, a terrible c***. Ha ha ha ha ha!

Ha ha ha ha! And you would be right! Exactly, and that's Pop World. That's so good. That's it, you've got it. That's it. Yes, that's the lie they're telling. That's it. Great. Okay.

Well, Simon bloody, I'm still... This is more fun than when we FaceTime. Maybe we do need mics and cameras. Yeah, I think it's a shame when we talk and it isn't filmed. A lot of people aren't listening. So we'll have a little break and then we'll come back to discuss more things together after 25 years apart. Hi, Kush Jumbo here. My podcast Origins is where the biggest names in entertainment tell me the stories that made them who they are today. This week on Origins is KSI.

I did boxing as a joke, if that makes sense. So- No, continue. Did you and Tommy Fury become friends? No. No. I would be sweating if I was like sitting next to another woman. I didn't know how to talk to females. Listen to Origins with Kus Jumbo wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Miss Me with, should we do it like Pop World? Let's do it like Pop World. Welcome back to Pop World. Still to come, hard fry the Zootons and Holly Valent says that's not my nipple.

No, because anyone that never watched Pop World will be like, that's what they're talking about. That's the epoch-making, iconic, Vice called us. Vice said, why Pop One was the UK's greatest music show of all time? Why? Yes, why? They just asked. They asked their readers. Actually, do you know who they asked? Dan Schreimer. He's quoted in it, which I thought was the right person to ask. We couldn't have done anything without you, Dan Schwimer. I know you listen in LA now, so thank you for everything, Dan Schwimer.

Yeah, I mean, that's a miracle that Dan Schwimer just arrived, a comedy genius who knew how to edit. This is it, isn't it? Has it been clear from what we've discussed that I'm a reclusive genius and master of cinema. Has that, have we made that clear enough? I hope so. And if not, we'll do it in the edit. Yeah, that's, I think if we could say something like that, just so that people don't get the impression that I've just been sitting on my own waiting for you to call to do a Pop

World reunion. No. Just, you know, I don't know if we need to do the credits. You know, I've been very busy. You know, I've made a couple of films and some stand up specials. There's a Netflix special. You know, I'm very talented. And then also prolific and busy and wonderful.

I just, these are the things we should say, I just didn't want to be like, and then Carnage came out and Grandma's house was wonderful. I love Benjamin. It speaks for itself. Right. But I think we should keep this being where you did say all of those. That was good for me, I think. Thank you. That was good.

You are someone that does lots of different things. And actually if we go back to the validation conversation, I feel like you voluntarily took yourself off screen and have continued to voluntarily not return in a way that many people who had a career that started out like yours, like lots of success early, like I couldn't bear it, Simon. Five, six years I wasn't on screen, couldn't bear it, hated it. I was like, this is shit.

This is not. But I guess I just didn't know who the hell I was. I was like, I don't get it. Without that then what's going on? And this time in my life, I know it's a bit ironic to say, well, we're doing this, but this time in my life is where I have never needed to be on screen less in my life. Goodbye, everybody.

Yeah, so I'm going, no, but what is it that, how have you been able to let it go? That need, because I know you have an ego as we all do. A couple of things. One standup comedy. So I had the stage. You did, yes. I had the stage, so I could go and do that, and that's pretty self-sufficient.

That does the job. And that, yeah, that does, that fills me. I did a work-in-progress show yesterday. Just 100 people in a room. I'm just trying out stuff for an hour. And it's just lovely. Is it? God. Yeah. All I ever wanted as a kid was to be on television and to do stand-up comedy and

I saw there was joy and freedom there and I, through really miracles, I ended up doing those things and meeting you and at some point you started laughing at my jokes in that first year and that meant that I became funnier and I've had a career. Thank you, Makita Oliver. You're so welcome. And then what happens, I suppose each time I learn how to do something, here's what happened with Pop World. We were doing a McFly special. It starts with the McFly special. Can I say we started this good? We were pretended to be kind of asshole actors in berets and polonets.

No, directors. We pretended to be pretentious directors in berets. And I have become that guy now. You are. You're the guy from the McFly special skit. Yeah. But that's okay, that's okay. But yes, on the day of that, what- On the day of the McFly special, I knew exactly how to make McFly laugh.

I just, before I finished the sentence, I knew that Dougie was going to laugh. And then I thought, it isn't fun. I've become like a kind of robot version of myself. Yeah. And if I'm feeling that now, the audience is going to feel it. So we've got to get out of here quick. Oh yeah, that's the thing.

Like part of what we were up to was shocking the people we were talking to, shocking the audience. And there comes a point where it becomes predictable because everyone knows it's coming, everyone knows that you're saying, it's so great to have you here, you've got this new thing we need to talk about, people know, that's just the set up for, and here's why I'm a quitter, think you're a c***. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, and it's quite simple, really. There's just a point where I get bored because I know how to do something. And I suppose the reason I've ended up continuing to do stand up and continuing to write and continuing to direct is

because there's no limit on what you can talk about or what you can express in those. They're not formats. They're, you know, stand up is a craft. Can I say the word craft on this podcast? I've said it, I've said craft. You know, there's so much to learn. There's endless stuff to learn when you're on a set with a camera and a bunch of actors. It's like, and also the other thing is this,

I think, and I might be overthinking it, I never really felt like I was a TV presenter. I felt like I was pretending to be a TV presenter. It was like an ironic, hello and welcome to the... And you could do that ironic thing as well, but what you were also capable of was being your whole self. And I felt like I never really was able to be my entire self in those formats. And so I wanted to know who I actually was. I wanted to figure out what's going on with...

Why am I like this? Why is this relationship not working? Why am I like this for my family? And so I... And through stand-up, through writing and directing, I've been able to explore who I am. And that's been more satisfying. And so, and then today you say, you know, come and be on this podcast. And a load of like old insecurities start rushing through my head and anxieties.

And I'm sort of okay now but I did a short film and I put myself in it a few years ago and being in it was my least favourite part of the shoot because suddenly all the stuff starts rushing back What does my hair look like? Am I wearing the right jumper? Am I good enough? Am I okay? Do I look okay? Do I sound okay? All this stuff! All this stuff, Makita. And you put me behind the camera and I'm looking at these actors being vulnerable and beautiful. I'm able to run in and help them express themselves more and help them feel more comfortable.

And I create a place of safety and joy because I know what it feels like to be there. And I'm just in heaven. Okay, I'm learning so much. Hang on. Right. Yes, because Georgia O'Keefe says, interest is the most important thing in life. Happiness is temporary, but interest is continuous. I believe happiness to be a lie and a trick and a sort of destination that everyone's buying a ticket to that doesn't exist. It's like we're all buying tickets for this train that's literally just gonna go off the side of a cliff.

I think all the good stuff comes from this sensitive, beautiful, curious child within you. And that's the guy who first said, go over there, get into the television, look how colorful and joyful it is, look how much freedom that comedian has on stage, go there. I have a niece now called Coco, she came over about, I mean she's been over since, but when she was about two, two and a half, she came over, she grabbed the harmonica that I have for some reason and she said what's

this and I said if you blow into it it might make a sound she blew into it and it made this sound and she went I love this that's the feeling that you're looking for yeah yeah pick up the harmonica absolutely if you are not oh i love this you've got to do something else otherwise you're you're going to become some kind of um bitter unpleasant maybe very successful famous person but inside the soul is dying. I think I know those people yeah I know where that looks and I know I know that feeling of like just like oh no it's not all wrapped up in the thing I thought it would be in and this is why I think happiness is such an interesting thing to dissect because I feel like the

tickets that we're all buying for this place this destination called happiness are you know the biggest ticket you could buy is have a baby. Oh, yeah. What if it's a lie? And I have the biggest ticket to this destination happiness, and then suddenly everything's really boring and quite mundane. And samey every day with this person I've got to raise for the rest of my life. We both do not have children. And I'm 40 now and you're 45. Why have you never asked me for my sperm?

Why haven't I? But I've got quite a list of... Oh, there's a list. Right. So this is worse. It isn't just that you haven't thought of asking anyone for their sperm. No, that was a conversation that they brought up with my uncle. But what about it? What about it? This whole thing that everyone does. Should we have a baby? Wouldn't people love it if we, I mean, really? A pop world baby. If you're talking about a pop world reunion, what better way to end it?

With a fucking baby from me and Simon. Should I come to you or do you want to come over here? Wouldn't it be funny if there's suddenly a cut and then we're in the same frame having sex? No, I don't think we need to do that. I did miss you Makita. I really did miss you, but I would like to talk about, well, the way your life looks like these days. Like, does a kid even make sense in your life?

We thought about it for a long time. You and your partner? Yeah, we thought... It was quite a stressful thing, I imagine, for you now, right? Quite a stressful, like, should we, shouldn't we... Very. And then his niece came to stay overnight. And when she left the next day, we had to have a two hour nap.

And I thought, if she hadn't gone, we would have died. So I don't think it's for us. But this is what I'm saying. This is what I mean about the ticket to happiness because I think we should just be very clear that children can become quite annoying. Also, I've been quite negative about people, about having kids and the people in my lives with kids. I haven't been tearing them all apart, but I feel like I've been a bit negative and it's not how I always feel. It's not. But I've just been trying to allow myself to see the whole picture,

because I just think there is nothing in this world that you decide to do that makes everything OK. It's just not like that. Everything comes with new challenges. And it's about kind of how you meet these challenges that makes you into the person you're meant to be, right? Should I tell you the reasons that I would want to have a child?

It's not about happiness. And I think people aren't honest enough about this. Vanity. Oh yeah. Like that is a valid reason. I would be like, just a little person that made for me. Also to have a child with someone, a partner that I was in love with,

and to have a baby that was, you know, half of both of us, and then to grow that child together. That would be a unique experience for me. It's very unlike what I grew up with. Validation from others, that I am a woman that can do these things that we are able to do. Not should, but like give birth, raise a child. I'd like to show myself I can and probably the world. But I don't know whether I can't get all those things from other things.

We'll see. I'm loose. I'm not loose. She's not loose. She's very tight. She's very tight. That's right. Great. But I am surrendering. Can I ask you this? Yes, please, Simon.

Do you want a baby? Yes. Yes. One day. Not now. OK, I'll have the baby. I'll have the baby and you can help raise it! You have to! You have to help me anyway! What? You have to be like, you know, Uncle Simon. That would be lovely. As you've rejected me as sperm donor, I guess I'll be uncle. Sperm donor! Give me uncle. Simon, I can't actually believe it but we don't have any more time to talk shit.

I can't believe what, that's what we, I thought we were just going to discuss our memories of Daniel Bedingfield. No, no, this is a place for honesty, truth and joy. Just like Pop World. Do you feel like, maybe I've, yeah, like, do you feel proud of me? Oh, Makita. First of all, obviously, yes. But secondly, I really felt the pain of that question.

It's because maybe because I still feel I have to ask it. Can I suggest something? Imagine a tree. Imagine a little tree. It's growing. It's growing straight up towards the sun. At ease with itself. Naturally, just growing up. And then suddenly somebody builds a very oppressive shed next to it. And suddenly the light is blocked and the tree has to do a lot of work then

to twist itself towards the sun. And it does that, it survives. Some years go by and it's a strange, very unique tree. Perhaps the talk of the forest. And at some point that tree feels a little sad that it had to do all that work to get the warmth of the sun. Why couldn't it just be a normal tree and grow up naturally. And then with enough therapy and medicine, the tree grows to accept its entire beautiful unique self and even feels grateful to

the shed because without that shed it may not become one of the most talented people in Britain. It's good to sit opposite you again with a mic. It's good to sit on a mic with you again and have people listen and it be filmed on camera because that's where we're at our best, Simon, okay? Fuck our friendship, this is what we're good at. Yeah, yeah, that's great. I'm joking, one of course informs the other. Simon, I'm so, so, oh no, look, I had props.

Look, look at this lovely picture. This is like a picture of one of our Pop World meetings. Oh, you're right, that's the Monday meeting. It's the Monday meeting and look what's missing from this table of like five people, whatever, seven people making the hit music show of the time. What's missing? Is it some women? Computers. Oh.

We're before some women would have been good actually. Sorry, I thought you were making a different point. Two different points. Sexism and god this was a long time ago. Yes, this could have done with some laptops and some women. But we still made it here. Simon Amstel. Fuck, I might have to ask you to do this again one day.

I love you. I love you, I love you so much. Thank you so much. We're doing another one. You do know this, we have Listen Bitch on Monday. Sure. You know what that means? It means that people are going to ask questions and we're going to answer them.

It's literally, this is it. This is it. There's a theme every week. The theme for next week's Listen Bitch is... Spirituality, bitch. Perfect. I love you. I'll see you Monday. See you Monday. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Meketa Oliver. This is a Persephoneka production for BBC Sounds. In Northern Ireland, from the late 70s to the early 90s,

the IRA killed over 40 alleged informers, men and women accused of passing information to the police and the British Army. But the man who often found, tortured and sometimes killed these people on behalf of the IRA was himself an informer, a secret British Army agent with the code name Steakknife. These were British agents,

not the fan other agents. Just how was one man allowed to lead a double life for so long? It's not like James Bond. It's not a black and white situation. When lies are still being told to this day, who do you believe? I wouldn't even know where to start and I'm with the IRA. Steak Knife. Listen now on BBC Sounds. Hi, Kush Jumbo here.

My podcast Origins is where the biggest names in entertainment tell me the stories that made them who they are today. This week on Origins is KSI. I did boxing as a joke, if that makes sense. So, no, continue. Did you and Tommy Fury become friends? No. No. I would be sweating if I was sitting next to another woman. I didn't know how to talk to females. Listen to Origins with Kus Jumbo wherever you get your podcasts.