Miss Me? - Ad Break

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss sex in advertising, as it was and is now.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. You're not at the office. You're solving murders in the Scottish Highlands. You're not in your car. You're in a candlelit carriage on the way to the ball. This winter, see it differently when you streamed the best of British TV with Britbox. Catch a new original series like Riot Women, new seasons of fan favourites like Shetland. A body's been found. And on paralleled collections of Jane Austen, Agatha Christie and more. It's time to see it differently with BritBox.

Watch with a free trial now at Britbox.com. Hi, I'm Alex Goldman. You may know me as the host of Reply All, but I'm done with that. I'm doing something else now. I've started a new podcast called Hyperfixed. On every episode of Hyperfixed, listeners write in with their problems,

and I try to solve them. Some massive and life-altering, and some so minuscule, it'll boggle your mind. No matter the problem, no matter the size, I'm here for you. That's Hyperfixed, the new podcast from Radiotopia. Find it wherever you listen to podcasts

or at hyperfixedpod.com. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes, discussions around sex and Jordan taking us around the world on another stop on the Jade Tour.

Do you miss me the long running? 201st episodes? Yes. Long running, friendship-based, revealing... Keats. genre changing.

I hate to break it to you and it's not that long, aren't it? I know. It feels like it's been I love your obsession with the idea that you've been doing this for all of attorney. It's been like two years.

What's a long time for someone to do it? Ten years. Is that how long Joe Rogan's been doing Joe Rogan experience? Joe Rogan's doing about 15, 16 years. Wow. And people are still...

The receipts podcast, 10 years. Good for them. God, the receipts, girls. They were OGs. One of the OGs. Well, we're OGs of a kind. No Rogan's on like literally. Let me see what episode he's on.

Yeah, go on. I think he's on about episode 3,000. If we're on episode 201, God, now that feels really nothing. It's like, oh, whatever. No, seriously? I did try and tell you that. When you were like, God, I'm exhausted.

I was like, this is like the first bend. Getting the real trenches of the podcast world. I think he just dropped episode 2468. Interesting. Hang on a minute. And he's been on how long? 15 years. I actually don't know when he started.

Hold on. Let me see. 2009. 17 years ago, which is same amount. I can't be still sitting there 17 years later, but he is a rich man.

He's a rich and powerful man. Yeah. Sorry, 17 years, he's done 2,000 episodes, something like that. And in two years, we've done 200. So that mean we're sort of racking up the same numbers to get to that if we did 17 years of Miss me.

Two a week. So that's 100 and, sorry, 140. Yeah. Okay, 104, yeah. So making this podcast is an absolute delight. It's followed me throughout my life through so many things and through Lilies and now through Jordans and Jades and everyone around us and my mom and Phoebe. But the hardest part of it, for me, anyway, is miss me on the road.

Just because you got to do your own tech. And I hate it. I hate doing my own tech. Jordan has fucked off again to continue. you miss me on the road from his side. But it's because you're a dedicated lover, right? Yeah, I'm in Hamburg. I went to see Jade last night in Berlin.

Right. Yeah, it was good. How are you picking where you go see her? Is it just places you feel like going as well? Sort of two birds with one stone? Well, I didn't want to miss her North America tour, and I'm not the biggest fan of America right now. So I, fortunately, she ended the tour in Canada,

which is why I went to Canada. Right. And then I didn't want to miss her European tour. and I thought I'd catch the end of it again a last two dates of Berlin and Hamburg but what's so brilliant about me this time is I told my manager the wrong dates so I actually I'm not going to see her in Hamburg

because I have a whole day of a new documentary series that I'm doing and there's like multiple talent booked and I can't move it because I got the dates confused. What are we going to do about you in your diary? Like seriously? I did used to have a PA. I think it's more of a pattern-breaking ancestral thing that needs to be... I'm just unorganised.

I mean, I'm sure my ancestors are probably unorganised too. I think they probably were. I mean, my dad's a joke. And my mum's a joke. That is so funny. I'm sure my ancestors were unorganised as well. And they must have been. My grand seemed pretty together.

We are making it work. Tell us about Hamburg. But I'm gutted though, man. I really am good. I wanted to spend the last show of Jade. And I fucked it. So I'm sad about that. But there was a kind of like last night,

it felt like a kind of pre-end end, because obviously Berlin is Berlin and a lot of label people came to the show and stuff and the crowd was huge. And, you know, obviously it's got huge cultural capital Berlin, you know, home of some clubs that people may or may not have gone to. And yeah, it was a really great, it was a great show.

And she's brilliant. Have you gone out? We didn't go out last night, no. Okay, she must be naked. Driving to Hamburg. Yeah. But Hamburg is, what I find fascinating about European cities and I'm more than welcome for people to comment on this.

But like, it's the second time. I got booked for a book talk in Belgium last year in Ghent. I mean it's Ghent? And I've got to come to these places. Come to Hamburg. I'm looking at it. I'm like, this place is lush. Like what?

Do we, are our cities as good as European? Okay, what does Hamburg look like? Is it sort of like promenades, lots of trees? It looks like I'm on the Thames. Wow. It looks like I'm staying at a posto-o-to-old. in London and I'm looking at the Thames. Where is it?

By the way. Germany. Oh, gosh. I was like, we are talking about Germany. I mean, Hamburg kind of gives that away, Kutz, but I didn't go to school. I'll let you off. Thanks. I have been enjoying this city so much.

I decided, I think if I'm honest in like 2020 or 2023, I was like, I want to be the talk at the town. I want my work. I want everyone to be talking about the work I'm making and didn't happen. In London or Hamburg? Just London. My ambitions didn't stretch that far. And then this year I was like, no, I don't want that. I don't want that.

I want to enjoy my town. So I'm like really trying to like get my ass out there and do things that are work-related and not. And we went to something that was a bit of both to see Lev Tanjou, who started Palace, someone I've known for a long time. Jordan, I have written Be More Lev on my altar. Yeah, he's a legend. I went to a dinner with him once. Just the story is. Beautiful. And I know it really well, and I'm sure you do too.

But, you know, Leav was skating around South Bank, lived in a house with five men that he he calls him the love of his lives. He says, I run a business with the love of my lives. Fucking beautiful. And they lived in a shithole in Waterloo. They called it the Palace. He decided to start a skate brand because all the skating videos and all the clothes that they were wearing, everything was influenced by America. He was like, let's do this our way. Let's put our tunes. Let's put garage and hardcore and whatever over our skate videos. And oh shit, there's nothing to wear if we want to put them in London skate brands. Let's make our own.

And they've built this amazing place. Remember when I did the football tournament? It was at that place. And it's this place called Manor Place in South London. These boys are now in their early 40s. And they're the older lot. And then there's the younger lot of palace are living their dreams every day. They have built a football pitch in this huge, beautiful old building that turns inside out and turns into a skate park.

I think he's also the creative director of Fila. Like, when I went to a, when I went to a, when I, I meant him at dinner, he was doing a collab or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he also just taught me a lot about, like, not taking things too seriously and really trusting your gut. You know what he also did?

He validated this idea, this thing that you and I have been batting heads with about this idea of, like, the sort of show-off, beggy, cheesy, corny nature of the influencer. And people were asking, why don't you put yourself all up in Palace? Why aren't you like, he's like, I just, it's not really in me.

to do that, but also I come from a generation, loves 43, a few years older than me. I come from a generation where it's like, if you were like, this is my car, this is my shit, take a photo, like people will call you a chief. You would just be seen as a dickhead. And I was like, that's it.

That is it. I think it's a generational thing. We were taught, not even taught, you're a dickhead if you showed off and like bragged, I suppose. And I suppose so much of influencing and all that is about bragging. So I felt really valid.

in that. I was like, that's because I'm old. I get it now. Yeah. I did try and mention, I have tried to mention a generational thing. No, I know, no, no, no. You've said it many in times, but it was just hearing someone of my generation say it like them. You're not required. Back in a day, someone else would do your marketing. Yeah, it's not the same anymore. No, but you didn't do marketing. You didn't, you didn't, no one marketed themselves. No, someone else did. No, I mean, I mean the individual. No, they did. They did. They just didn't do it themselves. You're from a generation where people's marketing would be cool, trendy magazines, cool interviews, little bits here and there, like underground collaborations,

that's your marketing. Now you have to turn to camera and go, hey, check out my new song. Yeah, that is. It's like the print magazine doesn't exist for a whole generation. Are you trying to segue us into sex in advertising because you know I want to talk about it? Actually wasn't. Well, that was, well, it was bloody brilliant. We were having conversation the other day.

Great way to sell something sex. And Jordan just, yeah, just palace. use sex? No, just just coolness. Skating. Skating is so cool. Yeah, skating is just cool. Um, yeah, but skating makes me think of sex because that was all my first sexual stuff. So actually, I think there is sex there undelying. I have a new favourite. Because everyone wants to fuck a skater. Do you know what I mean? Not everyone, but yeah, I have a new favourite skateboarder and I found him because he made a short TikTok video. A short TikTok video. Yeah, he made a fun TikTok video. So I found him. Because that's what people do nowadays.

I also saw an amazing Ugandan skateboarder on TikTok. Wow. There's no way I would have even known they were banging out skateboarding like that in Uganda, but so, you know, there are some upsides. Sorry, I interrupted you. You were going to say that when you were talking about the, we were having a conversation about advertising, you were going to say something about sex or something.

Yeah, so sex is, we believe in all advertising, and it always has been historically. I mean, sex is the first trade, isn't it? So it's our first economy. Is that true? Well, they say, no, they say sex work is. like the first profession, which is probably disputed. That's it.

But that's one, it's like folklore. Yes, it has been said. We were having a conversation the other day, because I saw a pot noodle advert, and it's just a huge close-up of a... Of a penis. Sorry, I had to say it. I'm sorry.

I could now pet. I'd be such good advertising. Here is a penis, buy my noodles. But it's interesting, isn't it? Because we can't do that, so instead we do this. Well, no, we can't do it because penises aren't seen as pretty, unfortunately.

They're seen as, like, monstrous, which is another conversation again. But, but anyway, the tits are, as soon as disgusting. Tits are used in advertising. Boobes,

curves. Curves. Yeah, there's some science, you know, in the way that there's like something, I guess, primal women would argue about, like, the width of shoulders

or the height of men, et cetera, if they're in, for a heterosexual, um, lens, the same can be said, apparently,

again, these aren't my words. This is a evolutionary biologist I watched their podcast with, says that the equivalent for men is curvature. So like any kind of form of curvature, which would explain, you know, like kind of like the sometimes ridiculous kind of waste thing. I think it would probably explain the shape of a Coca-Cola bottle.

Yeah, literally. In fact, that's a really amazing point. And I would, yeah, although, bottles are quite phallic. Yes, exactly. It could be either. They're probably like a fucking gold dust. Let's do both. Let's do a curvy dick.

Yeah, do you know what I mean? Curvy dick or ladies' waist. Everyone's going to like holding this. It's true. But this was just an orgasmic face. This new pot noodle thing is just a face in orgasm. And I was like, God, that's a bit far. Isn't it orgasm?

And I was like, well, no. No, I love that shit. Because what are we being sold? Pleasure and freedom. Yeah. The orgasm. Much about freedom. Pleasure and freedom.

Do you know what, my friend, you know, Beth, who does my hair, she was just here. We were talking, I was telling her about my theory that we've already made a clip on Miss Me, so I won't bother, like, going into it too much. But just that I believe that when we are having an orgasm, it's the only time we're not scared of death. And she said, interesting. because as a mother, the only time, truly the only time I'm not thinking about how is my baby is when I'm having an orgasm.

So I think there is this idea of freedom and pleasure that that kind of pleasure that we only obtain there. So if you want to sell a plastic vessel of noodles and you just show someone having an orgasm and you're like, are you telling me pleasure and freedom are there? I mean, I'm thinking about pot noodles more, sure. Yeah. Did it work? Maybe.

I think that like in turn, the reason why it's so interesting, thing is I think it runs in tandem with, this is what I'm fascinated about, by the way, and I'm actually writing about this at the moment. But like, there's been so much amazing work done to oppose the shaming, a set of like female sexuality. I think masturbation for women, I mean, are your best to script to speak on this. I have spoken about it here.

Yeah, yeah, we have. We did it speak about it. But I mean, in terms of how it's like shamed and obviously in some cultures, it's like the even the option is removed, which is horrendous and heinous. and I really hope that continues to shift. Whereas with men, I feel like, because it's not the immediate, like, religious or maybe even legal restrictions,

the fact that it is still a shameful act isn't necessarily looked at as much. And then there is some, there is some, I think, history to suggest that the libido or whatever we consider to be, like, a male sexual drive, also female, but, like, you know, male, is a conscious attempt to control men.

That's what I think. I'm getting a bit conspiratorial about it. A conscious attempt to control men. Yeah, because if a man because if we think about it, like the whole issue with many men in society is that they can't control themselves, whatever the fucking ridiculously aggressive idea is.

Right. But I would argue that a man or a boy or whatever would have much a better idea of how to control their urges if they were allowed to actually get in touch with them. You know, like we get told to go and do, you know, you can't, you know, anything to do with like self pleasure or like arousal or whatever is instantly like disgusting, it's rude, it's shameful, it's, you know,

it's dangerous, which is true. but like in certain context. But then so now in our heads it's as simple as what. You can just show me a pair of boobs and I'll buy a drink. Like that's nuts to me. Well, I mean,

that's for it to be that controlling. But it's always been the way. Don't you remember page three? No, I know, but it's just wild, isn't it? Yeah. So why do boobs make you want to buy something? Me personally. Yeah.

What makes do you think I want to buy things because of boobs? Okay, sorry. Why do you think that boobs in particular have worked in advertising so, so successfully historically. Like if you wanted to sell a car, you just have a naked, like a woman and her tips out. Yeah. Well, I think there'll be something, well, there'll be some evolutionary shit to do

with curves. But then similarly, I do think it's like a carrot on a stick thing. I think like because like men haven't created a space where we can like understand urges as something that just come and go. Like, I don't know. This is too hard to kind of try and say succinctly. No, absolutely. It's our primal feral shit. Let me put like this. I don't believe in the idea that men have an urge that they can't control. That's what I'm trying to say. But what I do believe is we've repressed like an authentic relationship with sexuality in men so much so that just seeing boobs makes some men go feral.

Right. Got it. That for me is a reflection of a person who hasn't been able to understand like just a naked body or the fact that boobs aren't always sexualized. Yeah, but aren't we all animals? The only time that we actually get a chance to roll around with each other and make crazy animalistic feral noises is sex. Yeah, which is an issue. Which we don't talk about. So I feel like actually there is a...

I don't think it should be. I want a world where male and female platonic friends can wrestle in the day for a laugh. Well, don't worry, because we've got a podcast based on it. Right now, that's what's happening. That's what's happening right now. I'm just saying we haven't had to wrestle before, you know what I mean? Oh, you mean a wrestle? No, but I mean like to discuss it is all.

Here's another example, though, is in Germany, everyone gets in a sauna naked. Yeah, but you were saying, actually, no. So I'll be interested to know how that plays into, not all Europe, definitely not all Europe. Scandies. Well, there's naked beaches in France. Yeah, sure. I feel like there's more naked beaches in it, Europe. I wonder, I just wonder, I find it interesting.

I'd really love to have research on, like, a cultural comfort with the naked body, and then how that plays into the tactics they utilize. Like, I wonder if there's an equivalent of the pot noodle advert here. Oh right, got it, got it, got it. How does sex sell in different places, for sure? Yeah, absolutely. Could you keep a lookout and do some research and let us know? For example, when I was younger, one thing I thought was fascinating was Holland, for a long time,

had the lowest teen pregnancy rate in Europe, and it was one of the only countries that had legalized sex. Yes, but there's nothing to rebel against. That's my point. And they taught sex education younger. If you weren't, well, there you actually go. Oh, let's have a break, Keats. I think on this episode, for once, we can say the advert break, because we're talking adverts. Hi, I'm Alex Goldman.

You may know me as the host of Reply All, but I'm done with that. I'm doing something else now. I've started a new podcast called Hyperfixed. On every episode of Hyperfixed, listeners write in with their problems, and I try to solve them. Some massive and life-altering, and some so minuscule it'll boggle your mind. No matter the problem, no matter the size, I'm here for you. That's Hyperfixed, the new podcast from Radiotopia. Find it wherever you listen to podcasts or at hyperfixedpod.com. And we're back from the break. What do you remember as being a really sexual advert when you were young? Because I was remembering the orgasm, herbal essences. Diet Coke.

What the women falling over the men? Yeah. Falling over the man. See, that's called... The laborer. Yeah. God. Which might be the equivalent of what I'm saying. Which might be the equivalent. It is a bit problematic, I suppose. No, I don't think it's problematic. The hunky builder being ogled. I just think it's interesting. I don't think it's problematic.

I think it's interesting because I know women in my life who are like super progressive, super like quite like what's the word would be like expansive or sometimes like, you know, queer, whatever else. But like they're still like if a dude turns up with a fucking tall belt and it's like a mild sweat and a little belly. I totally get it. Oh my God. Do you know what I mean? Cannot with a carpenter.

I'm like, oh my God. That's kind of cool. But I think that's the, I mean, unfortunately, that might be tied into like the deep wound of all of women wanting to be rescued. And we could have been programmed. We don't know. It could have been programming. We don't know.

You know I fancy men who work with their hands. I find it interesting. It's like a strength. Yeah, strength makes sense. Yeah. If it's something, I guess you would normally look for something that you might feel you need to balance out, you know, the general idea is that you're not as able to lift or protect or whatever,

then perhaps you want a man you can, I don't know. You'd have to ask a female UFC fighter if she's into builders. Okay. I also feel like there's a lot of the time when I fancy someone for their mind or the way they work with their hands in their work life or something, when it really sparks me up is when I feel that that's something mirrored in me, not something that I just want to possess. I think a lot of the times when I fancy people in the past,

I think I've thought, oh, I want that and realize it. Oh, no, I like that in you because it's in me. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay. And it becomes a conversation rather than like, I need you because you've got that thing. It's like, the reason I like you is because I'm that thing too. Okay.

It's like the India-Iri song, like the truth. I love the way that it makes me feel. And if I am as something as him, then I must be fly. Would you date a male version of yourself? Yeah. That's what I'm looking for, Jordan. Are you genuinely? I mean, I didn't realize that.

I've always wanted to write a short film about that. I think that would be fun for about three to four days. I didn't realize that until recently, and it's actually not narcissistic. It's actually about a deep feeling of home. Yeah, I think you'd have issues. What do you mean? I just don't think it makes sense.

I thought about this. Not for you, for me. No, no, no, sure. Maybe not for me. Well, but we're not talking as simple as like same star signs. I'm talking about someone that like... No, no, no. I mean literally a male version of you.

Like the same thoughts, the same desires, the same... No, I don't think that would be interesting. Okay, fine, yeah. Someone that mirrors, like, I don't want to go into it, but just like, yes, recently I've realized that that is possible and it's like next level. And, yeah, before I would have been like,

oh my God, that guy's so did it. And Phoebe Oliver would have been like, you're like that. What are you chatting about? You possess that. You don't need to go looking for it, kind of thing. Interesting. Anyway, I just want to go back to advertising because when we were in the car, sorry, I was in a car

and we were having that meeting. I said, I want to talk about sex and advertising. You said, I studied after. Wow, wow. Oh, sorry, I said I studied advertising. That's what you said. You said, I studied advertising. I did.

I did. I did. Well, no, I studied media at college. Okay. What's advertising? Because I always wanted to study advertising. What comes up in studying advertising? Oh, mate.

Well, let me, listen. So the thing that's interesting about advertising is because ultimately you're contending with, like, convincing the human mind. And it varies depending on the, like, everything is marketing. this is the thing. So again, shout out this guy, Rory Sutherland. If you guys haven't seen them on YouTube, he's brilliant. And the fact that like, even though I would say I'm like, I actually am quite anti-consumer as a concept, like I don't think we should all be as consuming as heavily as we are. If I was to like park that for a second, the task of being able to market and idea to our population is fascinating to me. We're always marketing. We're marketing ourselves on a dating market. We're marketing ourselves online. We've got these like curated profiles. And then like some brands, have been able to identify, like, either a gap in the market or they've broken through a perception of advertising

that will be remembered forever. So, for example, the two, like, we've already spoken about the breakout advert of all time, Guinness, with the white horses, do do do, do do, do do. That is just, like, labelled Guinness as currently the holders of the greatest advert of all time. Which makes you see them differently forever. They're, like, classy bitches who know what's up.

Honda, forever, done, because they had the incredibly, these adverts where one thing, it's like a domino effect of tiny little, it basically would have 100% taken like a ridiculously long time. You also have that classic television advert with Jose Gonzalez, with all the coloured bouncy balls going down a hill.

Oh my God, fantastic. Which is genius because, again, it literally was like 10,000 bouncy balls going down the hill. That was all it was. There's no AI, no Cs, Csino, nothing. They just dropped the balls down the hill and filmed it. And then played Jose Gonzalez,

which, by the way, blew him up as an hour, artist. And then you got to talk about Apple Adverts, blew them up. You had jerk it out for the original iPod advert. They did the silhouettes. Yeah, but also think different. One, two, three, four. Yeah, that was great as well. That was so good. Getting an Apple advert for a certain time would be make a break for artists. Yeah, absolutely. And also Apple advertising was really based on who Steve Jobs was, which was, you know, he was a hippie. And he was... Do you know what I'm saying? He had a counterculture energy to what he was doing, which is why he was saying, I literally watched this the other day because we were researching something.

And in that Think Different advert, it's just beautiful. It's like Amelia Eckhart, it's Albert Einstein, it's Salvador Dali. And then he's like, because the real crazy ones are the ones who really change the world. And it's just, and it's like, Apple, think different. And you're just like, bang, what the fuck just happened? Also, let's just say as well that, that unfortunately, theme tunes can be embedded in the human mind for literally ever. Like sometimes I'll be walking about

Like on a normal day And just go, BNBNBN Do do do do do do No, or I'll go If you like a lot of chocolate on your biscuit Joyna I don't know Too young

Yeah, Nat, you with me? And producers heard it Producer gets it Or do you know the funny one that has aged really badly I don't know I just want to throw a site there Because it is hilarious That this was a thing

Do you remember the Fila advert Belly's gonna get you? Fila Was it Fila or was it Lucas A Bailey's good? No, Reebok, it was Reebok. Berley's going to get you. Beryt is that advert.

It was the big belly. Hated that adro. But you know what? That's when things were a little bit like subversive. And like we've had some unbelievable advertising throughout the years in this country. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Powerful shit.

Well, unfortunately in America, like you literally cannot watch more than two minutes of television without there being like 15 minutes of ad breaks. But I don't think. But they're not creative like ours. No, they've never seen a Guinness advert or something like that. I hear that. some of the other adverts aren't specific to England. But I did also study adverts that had been banned,

which was really interesting. My favourite one being, there's two good ones. One was, there's an advert of a kid in a supermarket and he's like, asks to have this cereal and the mum says no. And so he starts smashing all the stuff off the shelves and like on the floor and kicking the floor and then it just, and it's a condom advert. I don't get it.

You don't get it. Say it one was higher. It just says contraception. It's a four-year-old having a hissy fit in a supermarket and it's an advert for condoms. Okay, that's good. Yes, exactly. A little bit of dangerous humor, a little too dangerous, it would turn out.

It was by a French-Belgian brand called Zazu, and it was indeed banned. The other one was, there's an advert of a boy at a house party, and these two, him and this girl go into a bedroom, and they're like kissing, and then it alludes to the fact that Moore is about to happen, and she goes, I've never done this before, like, what do I? do and then he goes oh just imagining imagine you're trying to get ketchup out of a bottle and so is this european yeah so she starts she starts doing the action and then she starts smacking the end of and then it's an advert for squeezy ketchup

Jesus Christ wow that is so you see okay see that's what I mean here we'd have a close-up of an orgasmic face with a suggestion of pleasure and freedom they just do a wank they're just like Let's do a rank. There's a while ago. She gives him a whack. I actually can't believe that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But these were ones that got in trouble.

So you know that one of the founding fathers of modern advertising in this country is a man called Stanley Pollitt. And he is Phoebe Oliver's grandfather. Okay, wow. Yeah, Tessa's dad was this amazing man who, he did like the smash advert of the 60s with the robots, which changed things

and sort of brought this, again, a bit like Steve Jobs sort of brought a bit of a counterculture, trippy. Well, if you want to take it onto a darker turn, a lot of more sinister or I guess like more widespread, let's say public manipulation rather than just simple advertising is attributed to a man called Edward Bernays. Do you know about this guy?

No. So Edward Benaz, he was basically a leading figure in PR and he developed a bunch of notorious ways to be able to convince people. to buy something without them realizing. He's basically trained as a psychologist and he is not... He's not thought of in a particularly kind way

because his techniques have literally been used to like... What? Well, all four types of shit. Right. Yeah, like, because it's considered unconsensual because he thought that you could convince somebody to convince themselves that they've done something. So to control and coerce?

Rather than, yes. Rather than them, rather than go, here's my product. Oh, I think I'd like that. It'll be like that, here you go. his best known campaign included 1929 effort to promote female smoking by branding cigarettes as feminist

tortures of freedom. Oh shit! So it's like, do you get what I'm saying? It's stepping into like a deeper psychological mechanism and then allowing someone to think they're coming to the conclusion themselves. I don't think he's held in particularly like, yeah, Lily mentioned something like really early on a misnature so interesting.

And she was saying to sell people pianos, they didn't say, here's our new Steinway. Isn't it pretty? They convinced people that what they needed was music rooms in the home. And then what you're going to do with the music room, then you need a piano. So I was quite interested in that idea of like how they get us and at what stage they get us to buy the actual product. Do you know what I mean? I guess this is an age old lesson in lifestyle and how to sell a lifestyle rather than a product.

Because a lifestyle needs a lot more things in it. So you can keep selling to people. Yes. And also the extreme version of that would be, you know, a lot of people would mock the history of perfume adverts because it's almost impossible to sell a smell. So it's just like a really odd kind of like semi-poetic voiceover and then just like loads of images.

And you have to be like, yeah, I like that. Yeah, you have to sell them beauty, attainable beauty. Which is hard to do well, actually. I can only think of like maybe Pacaraband million. Like, I don't even know if that's a good advert, but it sold loads. Links didn't get you when you were 14? Oh, Link said, oh yeah, when he sprays it.

And then all the women come from around. Yeah, I see, I would not fly now. Lynx just baited it they were like You will get Spray this You spray this Eodron

And women will run towards you Like Will come to you Full stop It's like The most simple advertising You've ever heard But I have to be honest

I'm a I am a total sucker For branding and advertising It gets me often I'm a brand whore I mean I like charity shop clothes But I like

I'm a brand whore When I see it I respect In my head I think the team Who did that are cool I don't necessarily I'm not that bothered

About the brand Like if I see if I see a cool piece of advertising or marketing, I think that creatively in of itself is, like, impressive. But I wouldn't necessarily be then drawn to believe in the brand in its entirety. For me to extend my love towards the actual brand, I'd need to know more. Like, Arsenal, for example, are like completely smashing every other

Premier League team out of the water for marketing. Marketing and collaboration. I just think that they have an incredible marketing team. Obviously, I like Arsenal as a team, but, you know, anyway. Yeah, but it makes a difference. It makes a difference. Well, they're not idiots. and they know that it's important

that they are out in the world in that way with the proper team behind it. I was not fucking around. But I need to know more. So moral, aren't you, Jordan? No, you are. No, you are. It's like...

I think you need to believe in things. Yes. Yeah. Like, for example, my favourite brand is called Story MFG. There are many other brands available, by the way. Yeah. One of the reasons why I love this brand.

And this is similar to Vivian Westwood, actually. Firstly, they haven't signed to a bigger fashion company. And secondly, one of their last advertising campaigns was they took photos they did a collaboration with A6 and the people modeling the trainers were the people who literally made the trainers

with their hands. Really? Wow. Yeah. I can tell you a funny story about my about me doing advertising in college if you want. Yes. When I went to college, I went to college in East Croydon, obviously British school, shout out, and no one really knew who I was. I think there was like six of us from Brighton. So like I was a new person, right?

So as part of it being a new person, I was like, I'm not going to annoy these teachers because it will make my life difficult and I really want to be cool and you know I just want to like get on with my work I love this then we went to one lesson where we were talking about marketing or films film marketing right so the first poster that this teacher pulls out is the dark night right the dark night had just come out

people were going crazy whole classroom erupting oh my god oh my god and the poster I think was like the expression like a smiley face right and then because of the joker yeah and then everyone's going oh my god and it's really loud and teachers going oh my god guys Listen, I didn't realize you guys

would have caused so much havoc. If I knew this post would have caused so much havoc, I would have chosen a different film, all right? If you guys don't quiet down in the next five minutes, I promise you, we're going to change to a completely different film. And then I'm in the back, and, Miquita, I'm vibrating. See, I'm going like, don't say it, don't say it.

In my head, I'm just going like, don't do this, don't do it. I'm a target on your back. And then she's like, she shout, she shouted, everyone quiet and down, and I just went, why so serious? You dickhead. And then she went, you, you're the troublemaker. And for the rest of the two years, she thought I was a dick.

Wow, so maybe that changed your trajectory in media stroke advertising. I'm sorry, but that was too good of an opportunity, man. How can you be getting... You badmanned her. Why, so serious. It's brilliant. I'm proud of it. I stand on it.

Fuck that. We were going to end with Claudia Wincomman. But we have. have now decided to end with Salvador Dali to talk about the use of surrealism and creativity and people from the sidelines

making some major mainstream shit. Salvador Dali is the person responsible for the Chubba Chups logo of the Lollipop. What? What? What? You know that? Isn't that amazing? Isn't that completely true? That's why it's so flat. Hey, that is nuts, bro. What do you mean?

Dali designed the Chubber Chups logo. Obviously, there's loads of other He must have done that in about 45 seconds. Do you know what I was saying? You probably just cough that out, whatever. It's like... I've just spent fucking 15 years creating, like, reinventing how people perceive art. Let me just knock out this logo and get paid 15 times what I've ever earned.

Can you imagine? Like, this is... I mean, I don't think they've ever changed it. How old Chubber Chups? 100 years old? Brov. He did it in... No, he did it in 1960.

Let me go. Yes. Look. The iconic Chuppapap's logo was designed by surrealist artist Salvador Dali in an hour, while sat at a cafe. Do you know what I'm saying? On his coffee break on his lunch break.

Go on. So that is the power of advertising. God, I really enjoyed that. I really wanted to talk about advertising. Can we talk about it a bit more in our personal time as well? Yeah, if you won't, yeah. It's so interesting.

Who are we and what makes us buy things? Rest of time, food or sex? Which one? Giving up or? Obviously, you're not going to die from not eating food. Like, you have to have like one basic meal. So basically no pleasure

from food, but you get to have sex or no sex, but you get to have as much pleasure from food as you want. I hate this question. I think I'd give up food. Good choice. Although when I'm like 70, I'd probably rather have a shepherd's pie than sex.

And that's the end of the show. Thank you very much, guys, for listening to Miss Me. We'll see you on Monday for Listen, Bitch. The topic is plants, my favorite topic ever. Children. And flowers. There are plants. Oh yeah.

I love you, Cutes. No, you told me that. See them. See them. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Percephonica production for BBC Sounds. Ever wondered what's really going on behind the biggest celebrity scandals. From Justin Baldoni versus Blake lively to Kim Kardashian's sex tape lawsuit to Brigitte McCron fighting claims she was born a man. These stories dominate your feeds, but what's the truth?

That's where our podcast, Fame Under Fire, comes in. I'm Anishma Tandadowity and each week we dig deep into the legal battles and controversies everyone's talking about with expert analysis and exclusive scoops. New episodes of fame under fire drop every week. Listen now and subscribe on BBC Sounds. Hi, I'm Alex Goldman. You may know me as the host of Reply All, but I'm done with that. I'm doing something else now. I've started a new podcast called Hyperfixed.

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