Miss Me? - An Armie and a Leg

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss Andrew Tate & the manosphere, Armie Hammer on Louis Theroux and what makes a good salad.This episode contains very strong language, adult themes and strong sexual references. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of The Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier With Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media. I would just quickly like to mention a new BBC South podcast, which is called Stalked.

It's presented by the journalist, the investigative journalist, Carol Cadwallader, who broke the Cambridge Analytica story, actually. And it follows the story of Hannah, whose life is just thrown into disarray by an anonymous stalker. And we've talked about this theme on our podcast, Me and Lily, and something quite similar happens in this because she turns to the police, they can't help her, and then she turns to this woman, Carol, for the help that she needs. What begins as one woman's nightmare then becomes a haunting, chilling

investigation throughout all different kinds of themes of deception, control, and something we've talked about a lot about on Miss Me, the faceless power of the internet. The first four episodes are out now to listen on BBC Sounds and we've put a preview at the end of this episode just for you. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language adult themes and strong sexual

references and a deep dive into a salad Hey Hello Hi. Hello. Hi. I love you having a bit of hair up and a bit of hair down. I thought you might like that. Mm-hmm. That's my favorite hairstyle of all time. I don't know why you like it so much. I think when you have really curly hair, like remember when we were kids and my hair, like when I was seven, my hair was big and curly. Yeah, you can't really do Styles like just a bit off and a bit down So as soon as I was able to that with plats I went in it looks flirty and fun. You went in hard. Yeah So how the hell are you? How the hell am I?

I'm a bit tired. I've been flying all around the world I did I went and did another stint in LA to work on this musical and I got the red eye back the night before last. I bought my favorite salad from Irranwan and then I didn't have a fork. No. So I couldn't eat my salad on the plane and the air-street esthers but like we're not doing meal service for another hour So you have to wait for your fork and I was like

So I just ate my salad with my hands we like nothing goes right in my life ever Air one is a sort of supermarket, like Grocer in LA and it's like very trendy and Instagrammable. Hailey Bieber has her own smoothie there, which costs about $20. Stop! Yeah, I've had one. Oh my God.

There are better smoothies than the one that she has, I'll just say that. But they have really yummy salads. They have so many different salads. One that I like is the Asian chicken salad and then they have like loads of different like protein shakes It's like a health food section where they can get all of your supplements I don't sound like things like this never come over here Do you know how hard it is to get a good salad in London City like impossible? I will just say this it is incredibly expensive in Air 1. It's like

astronomically priced. $20 salad. Yes Maybe more maybe $24 I'd have to check that. All we've got is toast which have three types of leaf Which are all shit and then like a bit of honey and mustard dressing. So the salad game Maybe that's our thing Maybe we need to do air one London Okay, I do anything to get a good salad in this city. Would you come to a Makita and Lily?

salad smoothie bar Yeah, yeah, who knows anything. I'd do anything for some good leaf could be our goop era Keats. This could be our new pair There are of course other salad brands available, but my point is there actually isn't. So, it's gonna be someone open one. Otherwise me and Lil are gonna do it. We could call it Mixed Me. Oh no, that's good!

No, that's good! Mixed Me. We could call it Mixed Me. No, that's good. We just gonna have to check if the BBC will allow us to do that. But I'm in. And for that reason, Lily Allen, I'm in. Did I just do a Dragon's End pitch to you?

I'm in. Yeah. And I'm in. According to your Instagram post, you this time LA was quite pleasant. Yeah, I have a very like up and down relationship with Los Angeles and I sort of like found like a good group of people that it can be very isolating. Life can be very isolating. I am generally quite an isolator. And LA I feel like is really dangerous place to do that. For some reason, I can't really put my finger on why, but it can feel very lonely in LA. I mean, so can New York, but I guess maybe there's a lot

more to do culturally in New York to distract you, so I'm certain to get involved with. So LA can feel sort of like quite vacuous and lonely. And about only like a few things, where in New York I feel like there are people that are interested in many other things. But this is a terrible generalisation, but I get what you mean. And also, you know, people are being very kind to me at the moment and reaching out and encouraging me to like go out for dinner and go for walks. And the people that I'm working with are all really sweet.

And so I just have felt very protected and supported. This is great. Who are these people? LA friends. They're all actually in my mind. This is Nancy. This is Nancy, yeah. Dules.

They're all here, can't you see them? Hey, whatever gets you through the day. Also, I have been cut, I come off of my, you know, weird antidepressants that sent me a bit do-lally last year and I finally tapered off of them and found something else which seems to be working for me quite well at the moment. So maybe that's why it felt okay. I'd love a bit of it. You seem really good.

Yeah. Whatever it is. Yeah, man, I'll have what she's having. I'd love my mood to be stabilized. It's been quite intense, the last moments in my life. I feel like every day is quite scary and challenging, but like in a good way, but just a bit like, fucking I need a day off from this pressure. But one of my favorite new things I did is, did I tell you that I'm sitting in for

Jay Rayner for The Observer to be, I guess like a food critic. Oh my goodness. What a gig. I know, in it, what a gig. J Rainer is leaving the Observer, the Guardian to go to Financial Times and they're sort of having stand-ins and they've asked me to do one, which was very intimidating because I really like J Rainer. Did they tell you which restaurant to go to? No, I picked. Where did you go? A place that you, it's a very interesting restaurant. It's like

right in the middle of where we grew up at the end of the road that I grew up on. But it was where I had my first ever job when it was coins washing dishes. Yeah, when Daniel had it. And then Lily was like, there's this great new place. Um, I'll take you there about a year ago. And I was just like, yeah, whatever. But it's so special. It was, it was even better than I remembered. Um, so I got there and I was like, Oh yeah, have a glass of wine and all the rusty dinner. My mom was like, McKee to you need to make notes. Like you're reviewing this place. I was like, Oh fuck. Yeah. I can't just be in this in the same way. I also, we didn't tell them what

I was doing and that felt quite deceptive actually. I didn't really love that part of it. Also, when you review a restaurant, don't review somewhere where you love the people and they've really looked after you and held your birthday party for you. Yeah, that was probably not a wise choice. But luckily there's nothing bad to say about that restaurant. So that was really fun. That was like challenging, scary, but I was like, fuck yeah.

And then I had that McGree dinner that I told you about. Yeah, how was that? Because you spoke a bit about it on the podcast last week, or did you not? No. No, I told you that. It's a conversation we had. Okay, so then I saw you posted on Instagram and I looked through the comments and people were like, oh my god, you were so brave. So you got up and talked. Thanks, Lil. We did a little look into this. I did. I talked first after Emma Greed. Jesus.

Emma Greed, quickly, will just say is the lady who built Skims with Kim Kardashian. She's mixed race. Hang on, hang on. Let's reel it back a little bit. She didn't just do that. She did American. Good American. What's it called with Chloe first? The good American. Yes. And then something else and then Skims. Yeah, but you know, she used to work in like PR. She used to work at Jess's office. I know, I remember. Because I remember having a meeting with her about 15 years ago.

No way. Yeah, where she was consulting or something for one of those agencies. And I remember seeing her on the Kardashians and I was like, where do I know that woman from? And it took me so long. You know what I'm like, once I've got a little bug in my brain, I was like, I know that woman that woman from? And it took me like so long. You know what I'm like, once I've got like a little bug in my brain,

I was like, I know that woman. I know that she's English. She's English. She only like spoke a couple of words. She was like standing in front of a presentation board in the Kardashian. She was like, this is my man. And I was like.

Yeah, exactly. She's not just English, she's from Plasto. Yeah, I was like, who? She's quite. I was like, who is that? How did she get from where I must have met her to where she is now? I need to see the trajectory. Well, let me tell you what she did, Lily. She moved to America. And I think that's quite telling. She's quite a gregarious woman. And I think that

when she went to America, that ambition was met kind of head on. And she had a very simple idea. She was just early. Her idea was bring brands and celebrities together. Duh, but that was 10 years ago. And people were like, yeah, I guess we could do that. And now that is the power of the world. So I was very, yeah, it was very exciting to be asked there, Lil.

And also, because the title said, Female Leaders and Business Entrepreneurs. I was like, oh, okay, new space. So it's very good. Very exciting. And I spoke first and I think I did well. And then at the end, Lil, they go, I thought I was like quite vague and it would be like, and I'm doing this. I just said, I'm building a company and it's something I was told I couldn't do and I'm going to go for it. And they said, what's the business? What's the business? So I, so I told everyone, everyone was like, fuck, yes.

And then they clapped. So I think I'm onto something. Yeah, I think you are onto something. Yes, so that was good. Someone who wasn't invited to this dinner of female entrepreneurs and leaders was Andrew Tate. He didn't come. No.

He could make it. Could not make it. Although he is, I think he's left his, I think he was being held in a Romanian prison and he's left there now. Hence, I imagine why he was able to tweet recently because you can't. Can't tweet from prison. No, it actually wasn't prison. It was house arrest in Romania. A bit more niche-y. Yeah, what a guy. What a guy? Someone was talking about him this morning. Who was it?

There was like a... Sam Fender was talking about Andrew Tate and why people get caught up in him. The musician Sam Fender. Yeah. Why working class white boys slash men are so enamored with him. And it's because they feel so powerless in the world

and he makes them feel less invisible. People are very unaware, Fender continues, we are very good at talking about privileges, white, male, or straight privilege. We rarely talk about class though, and that's a lot of the reason that all the young lads are seduced by demagogues and psychos like Andrew Tate. They're being shamed all the time and made to feel like they're a problem.

It's this narrative being told to white boys from nowhere towns. People preach to some kid in a pit town in Durham who's got fuck all and tell him that he's privileged. And then Tate tells him that he's worth something. It's seductive. Mm-hmm. Very well put, Sam Fender. Yeah. Seductive. I think all of very well put, Sam Fender. Yeah. Seductive. I think all of us feel like that though, right?

About what? When somebody calls you privileged and you don't necessarily feel that that matches your experience, you know, at any given time. Like we're all on a journey. There have been times in my life where I have not felt, you know, economically privileged

or even privileged in the sense of like having a great support network and family and nurturing around me. But 10 years later, that changes. And then five years later, that changes again. And then five years later, we've all had different experiences. Yeah, but it's what you do with it, Lil. No, I know. But you have like a knee-j reaction. Like we all live our own lives and people judge people purely on their sort of economic circumstances, I think a lot of the time. And I remember like, you know,

a couple of months after George had died my first baby and I, you know, had septicemia and nearly died myself. And, you know, funnily enough, while I was in that state of mind, when people are telling me how privileged I am, it was like, it drove me fucking mad. I was like, I don't feel privileged right now. It's really hard for me to see my privileges. And I guess that's like, it's difficult to see your privileges when you are in a state of suffering, right? And I guess that's what Sam Fender is saying is that there's so much suffering in the world. We do band around this word about privilege. And you know, it's tough for a lot of people out there. It's a hard thing to feel.

Yeah. Well, we should probably kind of break down this new, you know, meta sphere of online sexist, because I didn't know anything about this whole blue pill, red pill thing. And suffice to say, Andrew Tate's views, you know, self-proclaimed, but misogynist and speaker of hate against women. Can we say? Yeah, I would say that. It's not hate. It just is what it is. Okay. It's just facts. Absolutely. Absolutely. I wonder what he thinks feminism is. It's quite interesting. I don't think it means what he thinks it means. You know, I mean, like, he thinks it is a threat. Yes. But it's like in The Princess Bride when he's like, inconceivable,

inconceivable. And then at the end, the guy goes, I did this word, you keep saying, I don't think it means what you think it means. And I believe that about feminism with Andrew Tate. But anyway, he's interestingly using this kind of matrix male metasphere to almost, I'm not calling it that. I don't want to call it a manna sphere. That feels like what the male calls it. But it's kind of basing on enlightenment and transcendental thinking. A kind of view of you have been enlightened if suddenly you realize that women should have no power and have no use in the world and are a threat at all times. I've contained this about a lot of different sub-sectors of social media.

I think that that is quite often the messaging is that you first unapologetically dismissive of other people and their feelings. It's all about number one and there should be no shame in that. We're all entitled to our best lives and if that means, you know, pushing forward in our careers, great. If it means taking advantage of women, great. If it means doing, you know, taking away liberties of, you know, minorities, great. Like, whatever it is that I need to succeed, I'm not going to feel guilty about it. And that is a lot of the messaging of people on social media. And Andrew Tate doesn't, you know, sort of do his with

sort of like pastel colored infographics on Instagram. He does it in an on-brand way for him and his audience. But I think it's just as equally as insidious messaging coming from people that look all sort of like happy and flowery and enlightened and healthy. And, you know, even from like the sort of wellness community as well, like it can be, I think it can all be quite sort of self-centered and nasty. Yes, living for one's self, one's gain, one's rights. Narcissistic, actually. I feel like with Andrew Tate, he just seems very lonely

and like he could do with a hug. I don't think he wants a hug. No, but that no, but he might not think that's what he needs. That's all he fucking needs. He's in too deep. He can't. I think it might have gone past cuddles. Imagine texting Andrew Tate, babe, should I just come over?

Should we just watch a bit, watch a movie and have a bit of a cuddle tonight? No, right? Like, let's shock him to his very fucking core. The baby inside him, the three-year-old sucking his thumb and that wants his mummy, might be really into that. He's probably just not been asked. I wonder what his comfort food is. We know he likes a pizza because that's how he got arrested, wasn't it? Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly.

Okay. Let's try and fix Andrew Tate. Should we have him at the live shows? Guess I'm on that. But anyway, can we go back to why we were talking about Andrew Tate? He said some horrible things about poor Ariana Grande last week, out of nowhere, seemingly.

I guess she's doing a lot of red carpet appearances because of Wicked being nominated for lots of films. And Andrew Tate took it upon himself to let her know that she'd lost too much weight and he would no longer fuck her. And she's devastated. She's absolutely devoured. So it's heartbreak all around. Heartbreak Hotel in the Andrew Tate Ariana Grande moment that's happening. I wonder what BMI you have to have for Andrew Tate to want to fuck you. If anyone knows, please call in. 0800 30 40 90. What's the cutoff point? I'd be very interested in his romantic relationship timeline. I think his romantic relationship timeline is just with himself.

I think that he has, I don't think there's any romance involved in the connectedness with women that he enjoys. I think it's very much, I mean, I'm projecting, I'm going on what I know about him. I mean, actually, my cousin Silliman was just here and he said that his girlfriend grew up with those boys because they're like from Luton near her. I think they were quite nice boys with a single mum but not the story today. When I was looking at all the things we wanted to talk about, I was trying to not tie in Tate to Trump to Musk, but it's quite hard to separate them.

It's tricky. I know there must be a way, but it's tricky. It's so crazy. I think Donald Trump and Elon Musk have got 16 children between them from six different women. Yep. And yet they're now sort of like lecturing people on family values. But I guess maybe the new family values is like there are none. It's like it's just get as much of your seed about and spread it as far and wide as possible.

Well, I don't I don't feel as I said to you, once my mom showed me that video of Elon Musk's father talking extremely casually about the two children he's fathered with his stepdaughter. I was like, okay, so this is the household. But it's not this is the thing. It's not the household because I don't I think that like with a lot of these men, I don't think they had a household. I think like they there wasn't like a sense of family when they went home and that's what results in this It's like, you know, they're the messaging from their families were you don't really matter And you're on your own and so they've really like run with that and turns that kind of on your own loneliness into something very different Yeah, which is why it's so dangerous and insidious like

Sorry, I've so overused the word insidious. No, I really like that word. So I'm happy to hear it twice. But it's you know, I think that now we're sort of a bit of a tipping point in the UK anyway, politically, where you know, not as huge percentage of the people, you know, representatives in parliament and MPs are coming from Eton and or Harrow. You have to remember these schools, they start at like eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So like these rich families dump their kids at eight years old into these schools, that you know, the whole thing is like, you're going to be the leaders of the world. And if and it's nothing to do the values are there are not to do with family and connectedness. Like A, you're there all with one gender, men.

And B, it's all about how to become as powerful and how to manipulate people in business and in politics and in whatever. Yeah, but this is why it's absolutely fucking nuts what's going on with Metta and well, with everyone. Because, okay, so part of Trump's agenda for his second term is ending diversity, equity and inclusion policies and contracts. Damn straight.

Yeah, you guys believe. Well obviously. Obviously. Take your time. And then I mean these are the companies who are doing this Amazon, Coca-Cola, McDonald's and of course Metta. The idea that something was put in this world, let's say socials, which has completely destroyed community and they are now saying as a community, we're out and as a community, you lot have to now kind of monitor this and look after

this. And as social media has shown us, this is not a space where and look after this and as social media has shown us This is not a space where people look after each other This is not a place where people protect each other. So it's like dropping a fucking bomb and being like Good luck. Make sure it doesn't go off. Yeah, I mean, it's actually terrible Also, like I have no proof of it But I would have thought that if there was any like momentum being made in spaces where real change could be enacted, I'm pretty sure that those people can shut that down. Yes, I imagine they have that power. Yeah. So what are we going to do? What are we doing?

I think we should put our fucking phones down and go to the park and hang out with each other and talk and walk our dogs and try and remember what was good about the world and let's let's try and get back to there. Sounds good. My sort of views on the internet are a bit like what my grandparents views were on hip-hop you know like it's dangerous they've all got guns and rapping about women and it's like the same and now it's us and we're like oh no this is bad. But my mum said, this actually did freak me out, that she's getting really angry and really scared and she was like we have to stop using Google and Amazon and I was like I can't, I can't. You can. How am I gonna stop using both those

things? I told you, you're gonna go to the British Library and the shops. I would love to do my research there instead of on my phone. That would be great. But there is an infrastructure that's been put in the world in it that is just so embedded in us that it would be like taking the main frames out of the way people move. They know that we need them. Or they've told us that we need them and we've believed it. Or they've told us that we need them and we've believed it. There was a very wise philosopher in the late noughties, I think. And she wrote this piece where one of the lines was, and I am a weapon of massive consumption and it's not my fault.

It's how I'm programmed to function. No, don't, because I I literally went I know that. I don't know what's right and what's real anymore. I don't know how I'm meant to feel anymore. When will it all become clear? I think this is what your mum is feeling because I'm being taken over by the fear. And only then were we talking about the male and the sun. It wasn't even like that. No, we weren't. We were talking about the rise of social media, actually. No, because no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no was no Instagram. There wasn't Instagram, but there was Twitter and MySpace. There was Twitter. Oh yeah.

So you were, you were early seeing the signs of Twitter being even a problem. I could see the signs of, of, of how social media and narcissistic traits like I could, and I was early on that because not many, you know, most people that were engaging with those sites were engaging with them where the numbers were quite low. I was one of the few people where the numbers were quite high. And I could see how addictive it was and how bad it was for my mental health and for, you know, my sense of self in the world. And I thought this is really interesting. This is a really interesting field. And I would talk to people about it, but they wouldn't understand because they weren't experiencing it on the same level

that I was. So I did have a head start and people should have fucking listened to me why I wrote a song about it. But anyway, it was prophetic. It was because I suppose at that time it wasn't in everyone's lives. So no one had to worry about in the same way that possibly a famous person would who was using it at the time It was like you Stephen Fry and Rick Edwards were on Twitter. I remember the beginning I was like and the Arctic Monkeys on my space see that was That was a time Listen, we've got to go to a break. So why don't you take us to break and then we'll slot it in anywhere

That's actually appropriate Okay, we're going to take a break right now because we are great right now. Here is the break for everybody involved. That's right, that's the same woman that wrote The Fear and I think you can see why. Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of The Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft.

That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media. ["Happier with Gretchen Rubin"] Interesting fucker, innit? Interesting. So we're talking about Armie Hammer. So we were talking about Armie Hammer while the break was happening. And very successful actor.

He was doing well. Like he was in the social network. He was in Call Me By Your Name. He's a big star. And then in 2021, it all got a bit murky. Got a bit murky. Got a bit murky. The reason that we're talking about this is because I listened to the Lou Furu podcast when I was a few weeks behind, and then I heard the Army Hammer one, which was on the 11th of February. Oh, do you listen to it all the time?

I listen to quite a lot of them, yeah. Where he was pushed by Theroux to address claims leveled against him involving cannibalism, sexual assault, and rape. The episode was contentious and had a confrontational quality to it with Hammer concluding at the end, "'I'm not crazy about dredging up all of this stuff.'

No shit, Sherlock. In it. For me, a lot of these issues have been resolved, whether it be legally or within myself, a lot of those waters have settled. Talking about them stirs up the water again unnecessarily. Sounds like avoiding accountability to me. This guy loves a metaphor. Can we please play in response to Louis Theroux saying, what

do you say to these? The beach ball one. With the fucking beach ball theory. I was like, I have no words. Something I call the beach ball theory. So what I've heard you say is that that kind of kindled or catalyzed a greater interest in you. And certainly, how would you put it? You've described it as almost like seeing it as an entree into something that you were curious about. I have a theory on human nature that I call my beach ball theory that every human being is a beach ball and your beach ball, the size of it, how much air is in it is what makes

all of us individual and unique. And that beach ball is how much you like to sleep at night, how much you like to drink, how much you like to have sex, what kind of sex you like to have, any of those sort of desires that we have. That's your beach ball. And you can take your beach ball and you can push it underwater for a person or a religious institution or a job,

whatever it is that you need to do to repress that beach ball, you can push it underwater. But the further underwater you push it and the longer you hold it there, the more potential energy it builds. And eventually one day you're gonna lose grip of that beach ball. Okay. You can say that again. I'm calling bullshit on the beach ball metaphor theory, okay?

Someone in recovery gave him that theory. This is a theory that I have that my therapist in my cannibalism recovery center told me that. Oh my god, stop. Can I just say, this is a very wealthy, entitled, educated man. He's smart and he is running around the houses to avoid answering the actual question. Well, not really to answer the question, but just to take any accountability for what it is. It's like he's got, you know, and I have certain narcissistic traits, right? We, I think we all do. There's a scale and sometimes I feel like there's a difference between like making

excuses and trying to explain something. Uh, and it can be, those two things can get conflated sometimes. Like I remember, I think I've talked about it here on the show before, but being on Jonathan Ross's show once and him bringing up a load of tabloid articles about me and I had like, you know, everything had been sensationalized as they are in tabloid culture and and I'm very sort of like matter-of-fact and truthful person and he would ask me about each one and I go yeah well, I have an explanation for that and I remember him saying saying, Oh, so none of it's true then. And I was like, well, I mean, there's kernels of truth to it, but they've been sensationalized. And

this is how and I felt quite irritated with that with the idea that people don't understand how things can get sort of blown out proportion. I'm not sure that they were proportion in relation to army hammer. I think we're also going back to what we're talking about, about like, you know, like the way Elon Musk was brought up. This man is from a very wealthy American family. He's cultured, educated. Did you watch Anatomy of a Scandal with Sienna and Rupert Friend? I did.

It was so good. Oh God, I loved it. And I thought what was very interesting in the whole way through this court case in this show is that did he rape her, did he not? And then at the end you realize it wasn't about that. It was the fact that he didn't even think it was an issue that he did. Like it was about power.

It's not really about the sexual act, whether it be depraved or not upon a woman. When you're approaching your life from a self-serving, entitled place, I'm sure there's quite a lot of dark shit you don't think is wrong. He gives me an energy that no matter what happens, he doesn't really think he's ever put a foot wrong because he's got his fucking beach ball theory. So he'll just keep really into that. And also money, you know, and success and fame.

And I think that, you know, a lot of men that have felt, you know, not seen or whatever in the early part of their lives and that suddenly have access to all of this money, all of this fame, all of this attention. They're like, well, if it's not to do this, then what is it all for? Because I can do whatever I want. Also, there's a podcast. The reason he's out and about having to discuss this, which I'm sure he really doesn't want to do, is because he's got a podcast, I can't remember what it's about, but in the tagline, Lil, it's like, don't worry, we feed him before each episode. It's like, right. So that's confusing, because that whether you did it or not, you do think that it's kind of a joke. Yeah. Right. That's all I'll say about him. I didn't trust

him even in the when he played the weird twins in the social network. Didn't trust him. Well, I mean, I guess, you know, there is also a conversation to be had about kink. There is like carnivore kink. I think they call it war. And it is it is quite popular. I don't know if it's war. And it is quite popular. I don't know if it's necessarily real. I think it's just fantasy based. So I don't I think that like a lot of these messages have been digested as threats. But you know, he does say you know, you don't you're not seeing the context of the other people's contributions to the conversation, you know, she, you know, she, one of the girls might have said like, which part of me do you want to eat the most? And then his response is like, I would, I

want to cut out a tiny bit of your thigh and barbecue it. I mean, each to their own. It's just so next level what we're talking about. But you know what I mean? Like he could have been being led on. Like that's not beyond the realms of possibilities. But to me it's not really so much the like engaging in conversation. You know, it's like I've never really been one to sort of like engage in like phone sex and all of that stuff anyway, just because of who I am in the world and I don't really want screen grabs of like me saying weird shit being published, a la army hammer. Not that anything that I want to get involved with is illegal. Okay. Just saying that.

No, you keep that private. Also have not been having these kinds of conversations for a long time now. We'll put that out there and I've never really got into these kinds of conversations anyway, but You know after he compared himself to Icarus. I mean, that's where we're at. Okay. I think that's just enough said on Hammertime which is the name of his new podcast. Excuse me. Okay Right, then I think well, I think we'll leave doomsday. I think army took us there in his own special way Yeah, thanks army. We'll leave Doomsday. I think Armie took us there in his own special way. Yeah, thanks Armie. We'll leave that for another week because that's, I think that's coming, Doomsday's coming 2032. So we've got seven years of possible Miss Me episodes. Do you think his podcast is gonna do well?

No. Do you think he'll be able to sell it for an arm and a leg? Okay, now we really are done. Okay, thank you Lily Allen. Put a fork in her, she's done. Stick a fork in her, she's done. We will be back on Monday. Sorry, I keep wanting to not say it, but like we have Miss Me Live in like two weeks. I have to say like it's getting quite close and quite tense. No, not in two weeks. It's next week. It is next week, yeah. It's next week.

So yeah, again, we're just preparing for that. But next week, of course, we have Listen Bitch at the beginning of the week. On Monday, the theme for this week's Listen Bitch is Lily, what is it? Do you not remember? I thought you were really excited about it. Public transport.

Yes, it is. Public transportation, I'm really hoping you give us some quizzy questions. I did a bit of rehearsals for you the other day. I got this. I don't have it. Yeah but I think once you're asked it will come. Because it's like. But you know who knows they might say oh when was the saddest moment you ever had on a tube. God. But hopefully we'll have some fun. I will see you then, Bridgerton. See ya. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. This is a Persephoneka

production for BBC Sounds. down by an anonymous stalker, watching, threatening, impersonating. And when the police couldn't help, she turned to me. Stalking has always been about power and fear, but in today's digital world it's easier than ever to invade someone's life and far harder to escape. In this story we take you into what started as one woman's nightmare and becomes an unfolding investigation into a chilling story of deception control and the power of anonymous technology. So take a listen to Stalked on BBC Sounds. Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative?

I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of The Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits.

Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.