Miss Me? - Are Men En Vogue?

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss boyfriends (embarrassing?), couples’ posts and contraception.This episode contains very strong language, adult themes and discussions around sex. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

The following episode will contain strong language, adult themes, but specifically some discussion around sexy stuff, sexual themes, adult. It was sexy. It was sexy. Sorry. It was sexy. Oh, not sorry. Hello, you gorgeous bastards.

And welcome to Miss. me. It's me, Jordan and then an extra Jordan to the left. Why? Did you paint that of yourself? Oh shit. Is that in shot? Is that self-portrait? Yes. No, no, no. I took it out of the

it. It hangs up there, but I took it. No, let me have a look at it. It's not a self-portrait. It's from portrait artist of the year. That's when I sat. Oh, yeah. But the woman she went and repainted it. It's incredible. It's me and Spike. What do you mean she repainted it? So I picked her as the winner of my round.

Yes. But oddly, actually, the woman I almost picked has been included as like top 10 best ever. I didn't even pick her, but like her, you know, I guess through more of like an artistic lens. But I was charmed by the fact that this painter put Spike in the picture without, I brought Spike with me and no one else put him in the picture. And I thought it was quite ambitious that she did that. Anyway, so she went and then did it again with more time, more. detail and then just gave it to me.

Wow. It's insane. What did I... What the fuck did I do with my one? That's terrible. I don't even know where my one is. And then I think the actual one that got included in the top ten. I think my mum's got that.

Oh, that's what I did with mine. I gave mine to my grandma in Scotland and she put it up on the wall. It was really sweet, actually. I want to use it as... I just always thought I'd put it as like an album cover or something, but I haven't got locked anymore. It's a very interesting process being painted. Like mine took about six hours. And that did not work well with my ADHD.

I did not enjoy sitting still for six hours. I found it really testing and really challenging. Anyway, Jordan, how are you today, darling? One more week of this bloody play. I'm in the final week, yes. I'm in the home stretch. Yeah, you see the light of the end of the tunnel, etc., etc. Yes, I can.

What kind of human being you're going to be when you finish this play? You're going to be full of beans, full of energy, or maybe just a bit dead out Well I got a day off and then I'm rehearsing for Rizzle kicks and then I'm going on tour I'm going to fuck saying I'm busy too

Yeah Yeah that's part of Miss me It's like a broken up tour slightly So it's not too intense But I've got Yeah Rizzle kicks I'm putting on this night for boys and men So an evening of conversation

hosted by me In conjunction with Wow Actually Women of the World Festival Wow are a foundation So me and the creator of Wow are friends now which is cool and we've always spoken about trying to curate something for men boys and men just to platform some dope guys

so I'm doing that and then hopefully that goes well and what are the boys and men going to do just discuss things I'm speaking with Gary Stevens and the economist some of the things are kind of up in here but we've figured on it a theme chowdry yeah but the idea is you just chat man I talked to them about their lives what I love about Women of the World Festival is it's just such a celebration of the great things that women do

it's amazing I've been the last I don't know six seven years in a row or something and it's and they do obviously put some men up there not not not obviously not loads of me good that we're up to great things yeah let's move on I am joining I'm joining a football team great that's great in a quite a serious way Jordan like Annie Mac uh it might be a bit more serious than that no I don't know she's probably taking it quite seriously And he pays for a proper team, yeah. Oh, okay.

This is Palace and Nike are like doing this tournament. Oh, God. So it's going to be a bit full of cool people, which is probably quite a scary place to start. And tripping, like, Sandblank and KSang company, they asked me to be on their team. And I was like, yeah, fuck, yeah, I love football, absolutely. That's sick.

And then they started this WhatsApp group, Jordan, and everyone was like, if you could just say, like, your name, your age and, like, your position, everyone is at least What's your position, Keith? Fuck on. What's your position? I was like, the one who can score the goals,

like who can get the most glory. You want to be a striker? Striker. But then I thought everyone's going to want to be a fucking striker. That's not true. But people were like, yeah, I'm 26. I'm da-da-da, I'm 28. Everyone's like a lot younger than me

and everyone knows what their position is. I haven't played football since I was 11. but I really, really love playing football and I'm really good at it. I haven't played it like in a team since I was 11. Just try your hardest. I think I'll be fucking fantastic to be honest. That's the confidence that Sam's going to want in his team.

That's right. You've got to start with a confidence. That's great. Yeah. And I think that there is something truly glorious about like playing sports with like a big team. I play a lot of like one-on-one sports like racket sports, but like a big team, five was it, eight a side?

Five-a-side. I don't know. me you're the one are doing it I don't know what's the you can do you can do

you can do five six seven eight you can do nine aside okay I'm not sure how many aside there are but I'm looking forward to

joining a team and like you know doing a good job do you want to come see us play when? It's on the 12th of November

yeah come to the tournament might be quite fun I'm busy so yeah that's what's been happening in my life I might come down I might come down

listen I'm a big I'm a big fan of football yeah we have really talked about football. Yeah, and like, Lily, I had to drag her into talking about football. Well, she hate it.

Well, no, no, no. She just, like, doesn't want to talk about games and stuff. And I quite like talking. She's kind of like, got better things to fucking do than what. The irony, though, because football is, if we're talking theatre,

some people say, some people say football is the ultimate theatre. Totally. Also, I saw on, a lot of people, a lot of people also don't say that. but it is like it's a bit well I mean it's not like gladiator-esque

but it is the best drama that you'll ever see like you couldn't write the drama that's in a football game or the jeopardy or the anticipation or like it unravels so well a football game but I saw on like Sky Sports or something the other day that they said that this season it's going from 128 Premier League matches to at least 215 games that they're showing

What is that in the year? Yeah, that'd just be all the clubs. I don't know. They're just supposed to be playing twice a day on the weekends in the week. It's a lot of football. Because even Garfur went, I think that might be too much football. Oh, to watch. Yes.

There's so much money to be made from football that that's all people are thinking. You know, that's all that, like there's constantly new tournaments, new structures. Women's football is popping off. Like women's football, like relative to what it was 10 years ago, incredibly coming to the forefront. And if people want to get into women's football too, that's like, you could literally just watch football, like almost every day. It's such a shame.

I remember when it was on like normal telly, the football. I know it is sometimes now, but like that's where football used to be. You just go to the pub and it was on the telly. No, you've got to pay for subscriptions. Anyway, how has your week been? How's life? I mean, I did see you dressed as a gremlin in a cage.

Yes. I guess that was just one evening. I wasn't a gremlin. I was Gizmo. Sorry, yes, absolutely. Gizmo birth. the gremlins. Yeah, you can't get him wet.

The narrative is important. The narrative is important. The jade will kill me. No, because let's be honest, if you take a look at those pictures, that bitch takes this shit seriously. She takes it serious. This isn't a joke. It's not a joke.

And this isn't a dress rehearsal. She's doing a damn thing. And she did it again. And I think, you know, I think I rose to the challenge. It's amazing. Who doesn't want to be gizmo? Love gizmo. Yeah, you are.

And also, I was like, that much of a stretch. Like, you're quite gizmoy. Nice. Well, what was funny was at one point, I had the whole costume on. I had prosthetics over my nose and I actually had two eyes covering my eyes. So I actually couldn't see or smell and I was boiling. So I was kind of just like going with the flow and hoping that the TikToks look good. You know what I mean?

You went into a sort of transcendental, let's make content place. Yeah, but we had fun on Halloween. Good for you. I obviously didn't get to do as much of Halloween because of the play. Yeah. But like, Jade loves dress up And I love that about her And I'm, and I like getting involved

Why not? Yeah, why not? It was a quite, this is like quite a nice For me festive period of time I actually saw a fucker With a Christmas tree in their window From today? Yeah, it was yesterday

Yeah, because Mariah announced it. Brov, give me strength. It's too early to announce shit. It's not, man. Boo blaze de frosting, bro. It's not. It's not, man. This is the thing.

Is that how you know it's Christmas when you start to hear those nice, nice, gentle toe? Coming out of the freezer, Mariah is saying it's critic's time. I don't think it's fair to November to start Christmasing it. It's like, let's just have a bit of November. Like fireworks night was quite interesting this year because Hackney Council have, I realised this is actually official. I was like Hackney Council have no money for fireworks night anymore. I'm sure you can go Primroseil if you want. They'll still have it.

No, it's not there anymore. It's gone from even the rich places. Primrose Hill? Yeah, gone. The only place they have it is round by your way, where Will went, and it's like a shitty techno dance rave, because he sent me videos. And now there's this guy, he stands on a pole,

and he's all dressed in like a onesie, and he does like a techno dance rave. Oh, cool. That sounds great. It's not good. It should be like a big, oversized village fate. Well, look, the thing about... Like a folk...

band yeah yeah no i hear what you're saying i look fireworks are just fundamentally cool and it nice lights and color i guess the idea behind fireworks night and divali and christmas and all these celebrations is bringing light into the dark darker months i mean i know there's like a story and mythology behind specifically fireworks night but bonfire night it's pagan i think but yeah it's bringing light into into the darker months so i understand it as a celebration i like that my frustration if I was living in Hackney would be I mean the amount of money I probably given that council through parking tickets alone you should be able

to pay for a fireworks night just off of me just off my parking tickets bro just off your market is that how badly badly you park I'd say it's probably not so I don't know which borough's got the most money out of me it's actually not my borough funnily enough I don't know that anyway I'm not here to talk to you about parking I'm here

to talk to you about the new contraception laws that's what we decided to talk about to today wait what have you before we get under contraception what you've been doing in the last week then. I went to Suffolk with my mum and my uncle John and my nan and Garfield because this organisation were like, you know like the Royal Variety performance? Yeah, did that.

Completed it. Completed it. Completed it. It was like that. But for my mum in Suffolk, it was like this organisation, Black Lives for Barry St Edmonds, which is obviously a place where my mum experienced extreme racism and grew up like in a really hard, difficult race. cis environment. So the fact that there is even this kind of

organisation now is surreal. But then there was like just all these young kids like poetry, music. I love that. It was amazing. All for my mum. For their queen, Andy Oliver. For their queen, Andy Oliver. That's real, man. I would prefer Andy Oliver

to rock up. I would curtsy in front of your mum. It was absolutely ridiculous. Or whatever the fuck you do. I don't even know what the rules are, mate. I think it's a bow. I think she'd love a bow. And my nan was like overwhelmed My nan You know it was a big deal for my nan To go back to like where she's from

Where she brought my mum up Where she lived for 50 years And like my mum's the king of Suffolk Love that That was really nice Ledge And then at the weekend I hung out with Grimmie

And we had a mammoth dog walk With like four friends And all their dogs How long we're talking At three four hours What happens to leave No Clisold Park Actually it was probably more like

How the fuck can you walk around For three hours Sorry It was more like an hour and a half Three hours on Castle Park Like what were you fucking digging for gold or some shit We just did circles It was really nice though

I love getting all the dogs together Honestly I find it so hilarious That we're on this wave I know I'm younger than you slot But remember I was the youngest party boy in the clique And it is It is hilarious that I've still managed to find myself In the same like bordering on grandparent-esque essence

That you guys have already adopted We're always aligned aren't we? When we wanted to like run around Soho. From Groucho to Clissold, mate. From Groucho to Clissold, that's the gang. Absolutely. It's pure.

It's pure. Health is wealth. Health is wealth. And now you don't even have to be wealthy to look after your health. If you want to go into your local pharmacy and get the morning after pill, which is usually a score, can I say up to I think it's usually about 20 quid. Yeah. It's now free.

And this is the, they say one of the biggest changes in. sexual health since the 60s for women. Yeah. Now, is this something that you've ever had to closely experience? Yeah, yeah, no, no. Listen, I obviously have past experience of contraception, yeah. Only really condoms? Yeah, condoms and, you know, I've been young and stupid.

Do you know what I mean? There's definitely been touching go situations in the past. Right. Let's never forget that the morning after pill is actually called the emergency contraception pill. It's for emergencies. it's not something to rely on it's for when you're fucked yeah you know

I've definitely learnt for experience I'll talk about my shit as well but when you've been in past relationships have you been like heavily involved with the kind of contraception that's going to be used within said relationship yes good for you

yeah of course it's like it's an immediate discussion it's interesting though because I will say and I don't know if this is controversial or not but in my experience I'm surprised by the amount of women who are not that keen on condoms. You're surprised by the amount of women that are not that keen on condoms. Yeah.

Yeah, I know, I think I know, I think I know a, look at us, I'll protect everyone that we've ever met. Just because, just because I'm saying that, like, I, you know, me personally, I, I feel like I have quite a good bearing on, on the risk and, and, you know, yeah, I definitely had a phase and I was really young. of being not always like of sound mind you know like everyone's a bit messed up and mashed up which I would not recommend to be clear condoms are definitely recommended for safe sex I recommend them yes but like yeah it's I'm saying that like I've I consider in the conversation and and the fact

that women of course bear the greatest consequence of of you know poor decision making around contraception I'm just I'm just being honest I've obviously I've heard and experienced girls and women not being that into condoms which is like complex but I'm generalising this is my experience I don't know what it is for other people I know that I'm sure guys equally aren't encouraging I don't think that's taking away from the importance of condoms and sexual health is like a really real thing but I know a lot of women that prefer to have sex without condoms especially like in relationships of course course. Oh, yeah. But I just think it's, I think it's really important, like, to have that kind of

access, though, to that kind of choice. And if you are really young, you've had a sexual encounter with a person that doesn't want to help or can't help. The idea of finding 20 quid to stop a pregnancy occurring is like quite a big deal. And the fact that this is free now in England. Anyone of any kind of class or background can go in and, you know, it's kind of intense going in to get the morning after pill. Like it's, you have to be like questioned. Yeah, it's wild. It's not the funnest experience. No. You have to talk about like the kind of sex you've had with like someone that you've just met in a chemist. Well, that's, that's what, yeah, I mean, that's what I was going to say is, you know, I've not had too much, yeah, experience with that just because

I have not made a habit of I don't have to say this. Accompanying the girl into the cavest. No, no, no, no, no, no. I've not made a habit of putting myself in a position where that needs to happen. Good for you. Well, this is great.

That's great news. Yeah, you know, I know. But it's difficult to talk about, again, I don't want to be judgmental of sex, whatever else. I know what I would encourage my imaginary future son or daughter about how they engage in that way. Like, I just, for me, even when I was a mess ed or when I was, like, you know, very free-spirited, let's say.

In the 60s, yeah. I can't, like, the idea of finishing with somebody that I didn't really know. I just, I couldn't, I, that's, no. Well, now we're going to have to get more to see it. Do you mean it? You would never come inside a girl that you didn't know. Yeah. Okay.

I guess the conversation around not using a condom would only occur if there was like a repeated, ongoing situation, I think is what I'm trying to say, you know? Yes. Even in that scenario, I'd still be very cautious. Yes. When me and Lily were talking about the different kinds of contraception before, there is a male contraception. And when we were talking about, you were saying that you would be interested in using it.

100%. Yeah, my friend Billy J.D. Porter, just did a documentary on this called It's Different for a Girl. What's Different for Girls? Yes. She messaged me and said that when we did contraception. Yeah. And like, you know, I saw a short piece. I was supposed to do a panel, which, annoyingly, I didn't sort my shit out in time.

but it's a gel you can rub on shoulders apparently there's no side effects i mean for me it's just like an absolute no-brainer yeah absolutely a complete no-brainer i mean it's it's in her documentary i really think it would be a cool thing just just to watch because she did put work in to figure it out and explains why it's not been main mainstream why it isn't commonplace but no i was speaking to jade about this the other day like if i could take a contraceptive i would 100% and i would you know the very least i would want to experience what those side effects are because Like, I've seen the pill, the implant, completely fuck with women's personalities, feelings, hormones. Well, obviously they do fuck with the hormones.

But it's, you know, it's just a lot. So you've noticed that as, I've never really thought about that as the, I've never really thought about what you lot are going through because I felt so bloody mental through so many different types of contraception. See? Really, yeah, yeah, yeah. The implant made me psychotic. Yes. And it was really scary because it was really quick. I, yeah, I would obviously want to do that

I just don't think it's even a conversation It's like, you know, yeah, if I can Or at least split it, you know, six months, six months, I don't know Do you know what I mean? Like split the, like we're doing a long drive. At least sweat it. Do you know what I'm saying? I don't know.

So boys and men generally don't have like anything else happening to their bits in and around sexual activity, to get what I'm saying? Like there's not like a band put into your penis or whatever to stop you. I mean, you obviously could get like a temporary vasectomy, but even that risks infertility and getting your tubes tired and shit.

Like, imagine doing that young. It's just mental. Yeah, no, that would be a little bit much. But I think the gel sounds great. I think it would love to know more about it. I think I will watch Billy's documentary, actually. I forgot that she'd message me about that. Right, then, let's have a little break from all this free love.

Let's have a little break. Welcome back to Miss Me. We are talking about, when we're talking about gender politics. Something like that. We're always, we're always on about something. I was very interested in the article that you sent to the group at the weekend that Shantay wrote. I worked with her on something. I really like that chick.

Yeah. What has her name? Joseph. Is it Shantay Joseph? Yeah. Shanta Joseph, yeah. Yeah. The title is, is it embarrassing having, is how, let me get into.

Before we get into this, because I've put this into the group and then I just lost, I've lost confidence about this since I put it into the group because I'm just like, do I want to get into this? Yeah, because she's had loads of backlash.

But, okay, look, let's give it a go then. The title is, is having a boyfriend embarrassing now. I liked it because I really liked that it made people think about this. I hate the word viral. I hate when people tell me that things have gone viral. It doesn't really think they're important. But I liked that it made people ask themselves that question.

is having a boyfriend embarrassing now now love is never embarrassing but I think we're probably talking more about the way boyfriends are perceived or flexed to the world on Instagram through the lens of social media I think maybe that is more what she's talking about because I don't think it's ever embarrassing

to be in a relationship and love someone and be loved back no that would be silly that would be silly yeah I think to call that embarrassing I think the actual I mean the headline does a lot of work in terms of like attention. I think the actual article is probably more moderate than that. Yes, I agree.

I felt like the title was better than the actual article. But it was a brilliant article. Well, I think Shantay's point is just that like it used to be a flex in it for a woman or I guess women have been historically, I guess, raised with their entire life being centered around whether or not they can get a man, like through a heteronormative like mind frame and lens it's like am I going to get married that's it little girls dreaming of a wedding they live their life they're owned and then they get you know that that in terms of like being anti that count me in count me in but it's interesting we're talking about social media because i've always

silently felt and you know jade and i agree on this i felt that social media quite quickly played into the more fragile aspects of relationships and i think maybe this has contributed to her conclusion. So, for example, I've noticed, I'd say four or five times, and that's just in my thing, that if a couple are posting each other a lot, I think it's going to end. Whoa. That's the sign. Just like, just, just, and I can't, like, a bit, like a bit is is normal as usual. Do you know, like a bit is, you know, part of their life. It's part of your life. You know, Jade's a big part of my life. I'm a big part of Jade's life, you know, in dumps or whatever. But like, I just noticed there was one particular.

relationship I was quite close to and I was like damn they're posting a lot about each other and on stories and all these like really sweet captions and I'm like this it's a bit doth protest too much yeah it feels like you're you're you're trying to muster up like an external validation to maybe counteract the fact that you're yes you're silently worried it's also just a fucking nightmare having to delete half of your Instagram once you've broken up yeah like I always think with some couples I'm like oh my god if you ever break up It must be such a weird extra thing to do. Yeah.

But I mean, I do know. I feel like if I was in love, I probably would be posing my boyfriend quite a lot. Yeah, if it's legit. Actually, no. No, do you know what? I actually don't think I would. No, I don't think I would. I think the idea is like, and I think she mentions that in the article.

You know, some of her friends have come back in relationships and being like, I don't want to put that up there because I don't want to start inviting other energies into our relationship. I don't want people to start theorising about this person. and so I think maybe there's an intersection between a desire for privacy in like an age where we are more exposed than ever like bear in mind privacy has been reduced by the day the ultimate flex actually in life is having privacy like imagine being so secure you don't even need social media

you know what I mean you can just exist like that that's that's the true flex of our times probably the richest person I've ever met barely uses Insta he's probably got 100 followers doesn't give a fuck course every time someone tells me they're not an Instagram go and you think, oh, you peaceful, calm, bastard. So I think there's that to an extent.

But, look, I don't know. I think part of me is a little bit, tiny, maybe a little bit irked by, you know, just this idea that, I guess, if people haven't read her article or I just know loads of women who have cool boyfriends, you know, and... Obviously, I want to advocate for men and boys, and I think it's always cool to platform the great men.

You know, I'm sure there is struggles with some men, and I'm sure for men, they're struggles with women. I would say what's embarrassing, and I wouldn't even say embarrassing, but something that I really hope as many people in my life try not to do, which is to be in a bad relationship because you're scared of being alone. That is something that I would hope as many people would try not to do. Yeah, of course. And that would go for anybody.

I think it's funny, though, because I do remember in the early days of, like, social media starting to take off, one of the questions you'd get from, I mean, one of the questions I'd get from women I was seeing, you know, or it was becoming more serious, would be like, why am I not on your, why are you posting me? Yeah, why am I not on your, why am I not being posted by you? And now it's funny to think that this is like a flip now. Now, now it's like women are adopting the same mindset they used to be annoyed about. What do you think is the most, what irks you in couples posts? I would say I kind of hate

because I don't want to seem like a bit. Go on. But I hate when they call, it's like when they call the boyfriend him or he, like when they go like, when he tells you that, da, da, da, da, da. I can't explain it, but it just really fucking gets on my nerves. I don't know, sort of fake storytelling within it.

I don't know what it is that gets to my nerves about it. But I really like when someone like Ellie and Kieran, a couple that I love so much. Like they just always seem to be having a really good time together. So when they post each other, it just feels like they're just posting each other because they love spending time with each other and they enjoy each other's company.

And that always makes me feel good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's a lie and I'm just buying it. I don't know. It's weird. It's weird. It's, you know, I love my girlfriend. My girlfriend loves me.

I don't think about that stuff that much. Like I've got a nice picture with where I'll put it up because we're both in a public eye. It's just something you do. People like it. Also, like, it's funny. Jade actually said to me that's something. somebody had like messaged her about that article because of our relationship in terms of

me not being an embarrassing boy. It was just like I don't know. I don't really know. Like I just I know that I'm in love right now and that's really cool. And I think now more than ever, especially of how polarized people are becoming to each other, it's important to show that people can just have like a relationship. Healthy. I don't know. I mean, like we're not perfect. Like obviously there were always going to be things to work on and life changes so dramatically and there's always challenges but my stance generally in life is that men and women need each other there's no there's no other there's nothing else and I and I know do you want to get married I can't answer that on podcasts man I've been I've been asked that before actually Makita I can't

answer that on a podcast fair enough look what I will say is I wasn't raised of like I've never seen that shit I've not like it's not something I've dreamed about you know my barely even understood like I've told people many times who have followed my career like I literally had to go to a relationship workshop to learn how to be a good boyfriend. I was taught how to be a good boyfriend. And then I went to a trauma retreat to deal with the reasons behind me

being a fuckhead. Do you know what I mean? Like that's... Yeah, I remember you going to the trauma retreat, but what was the... What is the course? What is the... It's the same woman, Donna.

Learning how to be a good boyfriend course. Well, it's not just a boyfriend. It's boyfriend and girlfriend. It's a relationship course. Obviously, it's popular to like dunk on boyfriends because of the... obviously the history in and around like, you know, lack of work, emotional presence, you know, the patriarchy.

But nowadays, certainly in London, I find a lot more blurred lines in terms of men and women showing up in relationships. I've heard horror stories from both. And it's more specific to how that person's been raised and what conditions they're in, what they want in the future. It's a little too easy to just say, our boyfriend's embarrassing now. women generally speaking have seemed to have the tools to connect and engage emotionally more than men I think it's safe to say that on a larger scale and also like men just have men are just obsessed with men men are just obsessed with men just they can call the opposite of that men just love men bro like they'd rather be like seen by men than appreciated by women so that's an issue but I'm just sat here in like a great relationship being like you know I'm glad that I abandoned some of my previous

his thoughts because I've been rewarded with with stability and anybody can get that but but listen relationships are hard this is the other thing that boggs me this is the other thing I worry about the younger people who fall into these polarized echo chambers like relationships are hard bro you don't meet someone

and they just exactly know who you are you have to teach a person how to love you you need to understand what it was that you want from what it is that you want from love and you've got to show up every day for that person and love them in the specific way they want to be loved which involves communication curiosity You could teach a relationship course

That's really good That was really good That's really helpful I don't think everyone knows that It's true which is why Which is why you know People always advocate for going outside And meeting people because it's like

You know people will say hey hey You look nice And then you know Online or on a dating app It's just what do you expect from that situation There's more I see I've actually got some people in my life That have found some really lovely things

Through dating apps recently Great that's great It's been very nice. That's wicked. I genuinely am grateful that it can be a positive from it. Don't get me wrong. I fucking hated the two seconds that I spent on one. I actually felt like I was having an out-of-body experience, Jordan.

It made me not like people. That's wild. So how long have you been single? Four years. No, wait, five years. How do you feel about the concept of, you know, this, before I say this, Like, you know, the idea of people being happy in friendships and alone, that's great. That's not something I think is bad.

But with it being like sold off as an alternative is odd to me. You know, I think you can just all be part of the same journey. Well, for me, I just had so, I've just been out with such an asshole, Jordan. Really? So many. So you're into this. You're into this. Maybe you're done with men like.

Is that how you feel? No, no, no, no. I just gave myself so much more when I decided to stop dating people that were horrible to me. And I just gave myself such a different life full of so many other things. And I just, I find it really depressing and a bit of a waste of time

dating people that I'm not like madly into. You're in a better place to comment on an article named is it embarrassing to have a boyfriend than I am. I'm not a girl with a boyfriend. No, I don't think it's embarrassing. My answer is Shantay Joseph. I don't think it's embarrassing to have a boyfriend, but I think

you better make sure that you have a boyfriend for the right reasons and that they're looking after you and that you're getting what you want from that relationship. Yeah, and all relationships, so not even heteronormative. I understand the idea. No, exactly. Just make sure you're in a relationship for the right reasons. Yeah, yeah.

And I do get there being pushed back, and I think rightly so, against this, you know, preset path towards presumed happiness, you know, for women. I get that, I do. If only, listen, if only there was something that you could get or do and then everything was okay, once you realize that nothing does that, I think every. can be more of a pleasurable experience. Yes, that's true. It's like there's nothing worse than going,

like even look like this flat, I knew that I wouldn't get here and go, everything's completely sorted out and fine now. And that's why I'm enjoying being here so much. If I thought that this flat was going to solve all my problems and being on my mum's sofa was what all my problems were, then I'd be really fucking disappointed right now. That's just not life.

It's just, how do you feel in your heart? Everyone needs to lower their expectations of people. Yeah. And you'll be happy. Literally, but I just think, I just want to say that I just, I know I just sound like a broken record with this stuff, but for me, it's so important, like the benefits I gain from being in and around my girlfriend, her circle, women in general. I've got a lot of female friends. And it's so important. It really is like all the day is coming in, man. Like men and women are being, especially when they're younger, teenage boys and girls, they're being driven away from each other. But by looking at the worst aspects of both. you know and it's really really important for us to be able to coexist and fight things that are arguably I don't know about more important but like certainly more damaging to our overall security

whether that's whether that's our financially who's just making decisions for us like we need to be a united front in that respect and that's what I mean by yeah we annoy each other sure but we should learn more about each other we shouldn't go like let's stand like a year seven disco and and then hope that, you know, somebody points at the person DJing. I don't know. Oh, that would be so great. God, I'd love that. I'd love that to be dating life.

Just a little disco. I remember the, I used to get lucky at the disco. What does that mean? At school. Like, at school. No, I had to wait for the skate pot to open before fingering came into the. What, PlayStation? I can get into, yeah.

Yeah, it happens. I just needed the skate park too. Natalie, just to calm your, your fears there is changed now. Kids are like mad. They're, I don't know, they're just doing shit online now anyways, doesn't matter. But we will call the episode the skate park that got me fingered. No. Yeah, that's the end of this episode.

I agree. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you very much, everyone for listening to Miss Me. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Jordan. You hope you love us, you know, stomach. through conversations about sex and intimacy.

I'm sorry it was so, I'm sorry it was so stumbly today. Why? It's just that kind of stumbly day. Babe, I don't give a fuck about that. It's people want, you know, they want some lighthearted banter on their 45 minute commute to work. That's what we're doing. It's what we're trying to give you out here,

but I'm not sure we did that today. We did. I'm sure we did. Okay. We will see you on Monday where there's a theme like, fuck. We can just answer your questions. How easy

The theme is orgasms And boy do I have questions Because I did a little bit of research A little bit of market research Into if you were talking to a boy About orgasms What would you actually like to know people So I've got some questions

Well thank God that we didn't spend the whole of this episode Talking about sexually related conversations So that we can change them We can switch it up for listening to it I was trying to keep it here And not let orgasms get into it Because I knew orgasms was coming It's part of life

Get on board. Everybody bangs, especially your parents. Next week, the theme is orgasm. Oh my God. Love you. We will see you there. Love you so much. See you later, bang.

Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Percephonica production for BBC Sounds. I'm Julie Andrews, and it is my great pleasure to bring you Jane Austen Stories, the new show from the Noiser Podcast Network. I'll be reading Pride and Prejudice. We'll walk grand estates and take tea with well-dressed gentlewomen,

but in this tranquil corner of England, not everything is quite as it appears. Listen to Jane Austen Stories on BBC Sounds.