Miss Me? - Are Rites of Passage Right?

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens answer your questions about rites of passage. From that first rave, that first trying to talk your way into a club underage, to losing your virginity. As always your questions take the lead, and get all of us thinking about how we mark time and if we’ve got our priorities in the right place. Next week the theme is GAMES, however you interpret that word. Brb just playing Cluedo. It was Professor Plum, with the dagger, in the kitchen, obvs. WhatsApp us your voicenote questions on games to https://wa.me/447849030711Get weekly recommendations for things to watch or read or listen to from the Miss Me? Library every Friday at patreon.com/missmeFollow the show on instagram and TikTok @missme.4evaYou can contact Miss Me? on email at [e-mail] Producer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Katie-Louise Buxton Video Editor: Danny PapeProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Ellie Clifford & Dino SofosMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello everyone. Welcome to Listen bitch. Listen bitch has turned into a be him off of its own, a giant unto itself. And yet still, when I call Lily, she still goes, listen, bitch. It's really weird. It's like weirdly still ours, but then it's this as well. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I quite like that about it. It's a classic. It's an absolute classic. Yeah, I don't agree people saying listen bitch, but I can start. What do you mean? I don't say that. I don't say listen bitch.

Oh no, right, you mean in real life? No, but I don't want to force you. You have to say it at work enough. Why don't you just say welcome to listen bitch today and that's your listen bitch quota for the week. Welcome to listen bitch. There you go. The theme for this week's listen bitch is... Rights of passage.

Yeah. Kept a good one for me. You know I love a fucking right of passage. And be led, be led by the questions. I will be led by the questions. I've just scrambled to do a bit of a bit. bit of research on 17th century, right to passage, but now I will be led by the questions. Let's have our first question for this week's listen, bitch. God, it's good to be home.

A right of passage for me would have been getting into a club or many clubs underage. That was a life-changing experience. It showed me probably from 16, I think, that what raving was like, raving culture in London. One of my friends managed to forge a student. ID cards and using that we managed to effectively have fake IDs and go to clubs. A lot of the stuff at that time was probably garage and then eventually became Grime and Dubstep. So yeah, that was a right of passage and it made at least myself and most of my friends fall in love with UK music. I think one other part of this story would have been either night buses and trying to get home at God knows what hour. Most of us were sort of 16, 17, maybe 18,

maybe 18, or just before turning 18, I should say, some of us had jobs, so we were able to scrounge enough cash at the end of a night to get a 60-pound taxi to somewhere that all of us were, and then try and convince the cab driver to take us to everybody else's house, which never really worked. But I think that is an additional right of passage as part of underage clubbing. Yeah. Absolutely. I guess raving is obviously a huge right of passage. It just is. And if you do look up, rites of passage, it's about a, it's about a marker of transitioning from one part of life into another. So, partying has always been that and I'm sure it was, well, actually, no,

in the olden days, the 17th century, let's say, it wouldn't have been because being a young person and being a teenager, as it were, and wanting to have fun is quite modern. Well, it's at least this century or the last century because wasn't the teenager invented in the 1950s? Yeah, the teenager was a recent idea. Yeah, you'd be a child and an adult. So I think before that it was like kid, chimney, marriage. Yeah, it's definitely different. But I feel like, I feel like it's, I find it fascinating because I think there might have been more traditional or the rights of passage would be more embedded culturally. So, for example, like maybe you're taking on the job of your parent or one of your parents or whatever,

like, and that job incurs, like, a certain level of stress. So, like, your first day on that job or whatever is like a right of passage. It's almost always pain related, I find, rights of passage. Excuse me? Always pain related. I think so, yeah. Well, having a fag isn't pain related. What?

And that's definitely a right of passage. Well, it is, Mekita. It's destroying your lungs. One puff at a time. It's not like having a fucking massage, is it? Do I mean? Because smoking's not bad for you? Okay, yeah, fair enough.

It's like, it's like, historically it's always to do with like, but like pain is growth, right? Like you, that's how you grow is via pain. I think that will come up more in the questions because heartbreak is a massive right of passage, isn't it? You know, we literally have growing pains, for example. You know what I mean? Like our actual bodies are growing, you get urine pain, you know what I mean?

Like a woman, you know, you guys get your peer pain, you know what I mean? Like that's, it's all like a right of, but like what I find funny, what I was going to say was the kind of modern Western kind of bizarre attempt, I think, to reclaim what a non-existent right of passage is just annihilation. Like it's just like I hear what is like,

Ravenculture is kind of, yeah, that's cool to hear music, but you're also taking all the drugs at all the times on all the night buses, walking home, wild hours, like turning up at places you don't know. The risks you take, well, I don't, took, certainly, as a teenager, wild. Like zero... Yeah, exactly. And what were you...

And the risks you took... I was thinking about this when our lovely listener brought up night buses. He actually didn't introduce himself or say hi. No, he just went straight into his raven car. Anyway. But it is really important to think about it because

okay, I think rights of passage changed generationly, right? Yeah. And you and I, our generation, because we are on the fucking same one, would have been on that quest, if you will, for annihilation. You're right, it wasn't just to dance. I wanted to get annihilated and fucked up

and that didn't feel unique. That felt like something that we were all here to do and put on this planet to do at this time in our life. Yeah. I took it very seriously. I just think like you're found, I don't know, man. I just feel like you're finding your boundaries. I don't know where I stand on teenagers as a concept

because there's definitely some questions. But the idea that like that time, maybe the late teens, early 20, as like where you're feeling through your boundaries I think is it's funny you know what I mean like you're you're essentially going out there going uh you say a thing to a person and they don't like it and you go oh that that's that wasn't I'm not supposed to say that okay cool that good to know oh I can't do that much of that thing on that night okay that's good to know oh I've actually threw up crazy okay that's that there's that boundary you know I mean like who's house is this

fuck okay there's another that is that was wild that was my teens who's who's that This house is this. Who is this? What is this? That is a rite of passage. Yeah, totally. But also getting turned down, I had a fake ID, sir, to the man that sent us his question about his fake idea.

I realized I did have one. I got mine in New York, and mine was fucking good. But everyone else's was shit. And so it didn't work because I get let in and they didn't. And I didn't want to go in the rave on my own. We, in Brighton, just to, I don't want to bring, flare people up here. But we, there was not that many mixed race guys in Brighton.

And we had this one guy who had an ID. He was about three years older than me, four years older than me. And three of us, three separate mixed race boys got into the same club and the same night with the same ID. Well, you just said a whole lot there, sister, about Brighton in the early Nauties. We'd go in and we'd just give the idea. do through the smoking area of friends and just and just walk right to the Friday going on the same one. And I remember as well, I took it with me.

I took it with me on holiday. And it was the first, I went clubbing when I was 17 in Barbados and I was absolutely wasted. I remember it was first time, first night, I had a lot of things for those of you who read my book. And I remember trying to chat up these girls who were like in uni and I was like maybe in college. I don't know. And I remember that I'm saying something and I was like and I made some comment. oh yeah well you know when i go uni you know da da da da and they were like i thought you were 22 i was like what you mean you're not doing yes obviously i am 22 i'm talking about someone else

someone else's experience of college i don't know no i said no i think i even said i think i even made a comment about the fact that i had fake id to these women who i just told i was 22 anyway it was really dumb also i had a fucking baby face by then so i don't know who i was kidding this is a good time for us to talk about virginity we'll we'll save it because because obviously virginity was a huge episode for me and Lily when we first started. And I always wanted to talk to you about yours, but I was like, oh, we've done virginity. But it can come up and writes and passage. So let's get another question and hopefully we'll get a little bit more sexy.

Hi, I'm Saskia and I'm from Ladbrook Grove. I hope everyone had a good carnival. My husband is Jewish and as a result, I've been to quite a few bar and bat mitzvahs, which is a right of passage for a young person, typically a 13-year-old boy, or 12-year-old girl. And this celebrates that young person's start of a next chapter in their life. And it is a day of pure celebration that as far as I can see isn't so much about religion, but everyone who loves that teenager comes together to basically tell them how wonderful they are. And I've never really witnessed such emotion and love centered at one person who really laps it all up.

And I really believe it forms a really central part of them, developing a strong sense of identity and self-worth. We need more of this. Young people deserve at least one day of validation at a pivotal time in their lives. So my question is, what other moments are there for us to celebrate teenagers? That's really cool. Thank you, gross. Also, I don't know, how many bummits was you been to?

Because I swear to God, a couple of them, I'm like, these, I swear I went to what I DJed at one and I promise you that were people just, there were teenagers just down in vodka. 13, they must, I swear they were just getting wasted. Unless I'm tripping out. Unless I'm tripping. Unless it's for the adults, I don't know, but I don't know. Yeah. Well, I'm really jealous that I haven't been part of many religious rites of passage.

Like, I wasn't baptized. I'm not Jewish, so I haven't been at Bar Mitzford either. Or is it bat for a girl? I think it's back for a girl. And I would love all that. You know, I love traditions, Jordan. Sure. So I know that Phoebe...

Do you know what? I've been part of it because I'm a godmother. And me and our friend Rob Pattinson are godparents to... I'm not friends of Rob Patton just to be clear. Are you not? No, no, I've never met him. Okay. My friend, Rob Panzen.

We are godparents to our friend, Matilda, and Charlie's son, Rudy. And so we had to be part of like a really quite serious baptism. in a posh church in Mayfair, I guess it was like 13 years ago because Rudy's like 13 now. And that was very, I felt like part of something very deep and I liked that a lot. But other

rights of passage, I mean we were talking about the raving stuff, but I do really think we can now talk about your virginity. I think virginity is a big one. So how did you lose your virginity children Stephen? Okay, firstly can I speak? Let me just, in my response to that question, I do think we should have, before I get on

to my virginity. Celebrating teenagers, great idea. Teenagers, very awkward phase, very awkward stage of life. And they actually, I think, I can't speak for girls, but for boys with our current conditioning, boys seem to despise being loved at that time. Like, it's the most uncomfortable experience, although they need it and actually truly want it. But like, while you're kind of trying to assert wherever you are in the food chain, like, oh, I don't need to be, don't hug me. Why, kissing me in front of people, like, what you do it? Like with my, you know, like there's people close to me that like, you're teenage boys now and I'm just always like rubbing their head

and giving them a kiss on their head and be like, I love spending time with you. And they're just like, get off me. But it's like, no, you will take my affection and my love. Yeah, I wanted to, yeah, physical touch and love like, you know, anyway. But I don't know, I haven't got a current plan for how or when we can celebrate them, but I agree that that is a really, really, really cool thing to do. My virginity, I had some time off school and I hung out of this girl in the year above. and long story short

she decided that she wanted to be the one to you know she turned up at the house one time without a free house what was that a conversation that was had between you both were you already kissing and stuff yeah we've done some stuff yeah done some stuff and you fancyed her and she was an older girl so it's all quite enticing she's year above man yeah it was a vibe year above brough come and we all know what that means yeah she came over and um you know

I was just, it's pure genitalin for me. I didn't know what I was doing. Had no idea what I was doing. No, no, this is so important. This is so important. I've been waiting to talk about this for the boy for so long. What is the fear that a young man feels on the cusp of losing their virginity when in, in terms of the idea that you, there is more for you to do as it were? Do you know what I mean?

Like, as a girl, we can sort of lay back and let it happen. But for the boy, you have, there are things to do and it's scary. I just had, yeah, I just had, I had just zero idea. I had, personally took my virginity, I think I had already been quite giving. Because I found that interesting. I've always, I like giving. I like being of service. You'd already given her head.

Yes, you told me about this. I think, I think I, I can't remember what I've seen to. I just have a, it's that bit before is, but I remember doing it. But I feel like it's before, I feel it was before, which. which is maybe what encouraged her to be like, okay. But I don't know. I can't remember. Either way, I had a free house. She came over.

She made the thing. What do you mean made the thing? Candles? No, she like had a sexy outfit on her stuff. It was like, it was like kind of... She really knew what she was doing. She was really like, it was an active decision. It was an intent.

It was an afternoon. It was like, it was... And I was just like... There were multiple things I was experiencing for the first time. And I was literally just, I remember being like, I just have to carry on, I guess. I was just like trying to not stop for as long as possible. I was absolutely overwhelmed, overstimulated.

I probably came really quickly. I can't remember. I can't remember. All I remember is just the panic, you know? But like, but what was... Through the chasm of fire. Yeah, yeah, but it was, but, you know, and like, I guess you want to do a good job.

But zero instruction, zero guidance. Maybe like a handful of like porn previews at that time that would have been what I would understand to be some kind of sexual intercourse. She, but what was funny is she actually, what the most vivid memory was, she was also trying to make a boy jealous at school. So she then went and told everyone that I was really good, even though I wasn't.

So it was actually like a win-win for me. Oh, fab. Great. She used me as leverage to be like, I had Texas of Jordan and he was really good. And I was like, yeah. In my head, I was like, I definitely wasn't. Definitely was not.

100% was not. Yeah. So how did you feel about us? sex afterwards? Well, I think the overarching view I have I had at that point in my life. And it's actually been, anyway, it's like an ongoing thing is I hit puberty a lot later than most of the boys in my year. So I have like, I actually had like kind of felt quite inadequate after. I would, I would want to have sex and I would have sex with girls. But I was like literally, my body was still growing. And my body was still growing when I was like 20. I was actually famous. I was

famous and like 21. I remember I had it. Yeah, while your body was still going. Like I literally, I know it's crass to say, but maybe it's important to have these conversations. But like, I, the woman who I was like in a relationship with and then seeing at the beginning of my career, like, I was still developing when I was like 21. How old were you when you lost your virginity? I was 15. Oh, that's not even that late. I was 16 and I was like the last in my group of friends. It's a massive right of passage, but it's also weird, can I just say it, as a general comment on boys,

it's weird that we take and not like the idea like when you say you lost your virginity I don't feel like I lost anything I felt like for a boy it was like you were gaining access into like some club you know it was like you didn't if you don't feel like you lose it you like and then there's this whole thing about I remember the conversation about the women or the girls actually the literal girls who were virgins that was like constantly spoken about like oh thing he hasn't lost their virginity or you know it was like this whole constant commentary And like for a lot of people end up being like really not that fun. Well, Lily, when Lily and I talked about it,

that's what she was really saying, like, this idea of like that it's something that a woman holds that is being taken from her or that she is losing. And I'd never really thought about the language surrounding it ever. And I was like, oh, right, yeah. But I was, you know, I was, I don't know where the right word is lucky, but I had a really lovely first time with someone I was in love with that was my boyfriend.

The fuck. I know. I was like in Kensington, everything was fine. Rare specimen, you are. I know, I know. I've had such a fucking weird tumultuous sex life since then. That was a really good starting point. And then everything fell apart.

I had one, I remember there was one, one of my girlfriends when I was younger. I took, I say took, is so mad in it. Like she lost her, lost, what, I would love, I would love new words, I'd love news hominology, but her first time was with me and she had picked me, picked me for some reason. To this day, and only one day, maybe I'll figure it out. But she was like a lot of guys in her year wanted to have sex with her and for some reason she will have my inklings.

But, but can I just say what was so funny is once it had happened, it was literally like me, I was like mini famous before I was famous. Like I literally, I remember I was I was 16, or no, I was seven, I was 17 when it happened and I was literally getting into clubs because I was this person's boyfriend. Like girls in the year, I'll be above, I talked to me just relative to my little micro world in Brighton, there was one person that I had sex with. It was their first time. And the fact that that had happened in that social world, like gave me some form of social leverage, which was bizarre, akin to some kind of momentary celebrity status. And I didn't know why. I would be literally, I remember walking past the club that I would ordinarily have to blag get out of fake ID,

the bounce was like, oh yeah, just put me in. Just. Just let me in. Girls, women, girls in the year above were talking to me. Like guys in the year above were like, oh, thingies guy, yeah? I was like, yeah, it was like, yeah, safe. What the fuck? Safe, man, yeah, well, go on. Anyway, she cheated on me.

Okay, well, there you go. Welcome to another right of passage. We're all kids, yeah. Welcome to another one. Yeah, being cheated on. That is a right of passage, I would say. Let's have another question. Let's have another question.

Hello, lovely Makita and Jordan. My right of passage is a point. personal one. I decided to stay and work things out with my husband after he had an affair. And for my right of passage, I decided that I would remove my wedding ring. I just wondered, do you have anything that you've done for yourselves that's kind of your personal right of passage? Great podcast. Bye. Thank you, darling. And good for you. Yeah, I guess every dickhead that I've walked away from and never spoken to again was quite a good right of passage. I was thinking about one of them the other day actually. I think that's always been quite, that feels like a chasm of

fire and uncomfortability at the time because being treated like shit by people can become so familiar. So that's always felt like a big move into a new arena. And it's always, and I've always been highly rewarded in life from that. And I wonder how it went for you to stay, to keep your partner in your life, to try again, as it were. with this knowledge of something happening, but to take your wedding ring off for you to show you that, I wonder why she did that, to show herself that something had happened

and that it was important to remember that, even though she was staying with him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a restorative justice. Yeah, I get that. Restorative justice. Yeah, like there's an imbalance, right? So that's like a kind of symbolism of their rebalancing

of some kind of, I don't know. Oh, that's good. No, that's good. It's hard doing that. It's hard that bit. I wish them the best, actually, because I think it could be really powerful to obviously move past something like that, but betrayal is hard. It's hard to deal with, like, having been on both sides. Yeah, having been on both sides.

Yeah, I've been on both sides. What right passes for myself? First time going on stage is kind of nuts. First time getting punched as a guy's, like literally, that's always the right of passage, just getting punched in the face. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. And also, I suppose you've taken.

yourself on quite yourself on quite a lot of rites of passage when it comes to all of your spiritual endeavours. Yeah, ceremonies. Every weekend plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Spirituality is quite a big right in passage, I think, finding your one spiritual life. Yeah, I think, I think for me, the one that's most interesting or one that I think I've had, I had to create it for myself, because we don't have a current set up for it is the breaking away from your parents a bit you know like I think for myself I had to like create a

like a bit of a clear cut that like I'm moving out of whatever stage of parentalness I was in into adult world when was this like last week no because you have quite a heavily

connected relationship with your parents like I do in what sense could do with a big of, well... I don't think I do at all, actually. Yeah, you look after them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's like a financial thing. But I mean, as in like, I don't... Yeah, but... I mean as in when people are literally reliant, you know, like, people would, like, go to, you know, get their food cooked by them. Some people get their clothes washed by their mum and stuff like the boys, mainly.

But like... But what I'm saying is, with your situation, you have this unique reversal of that. Yeah, yeah. Which is that you became the parent. Yeah. circumstantial. Circumstantial parenting. It's unfortunate, yeah. And that would be quite an

interesting thing for you to move away from, I think. I don't think they would agree. But yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not that second. I bet they wouldn't. That's circumstantial. No, no, that's a choice, though. It's not a choice. I think, like, if it wasn't a choice and out of respect, you know, then maybe. But I think I wouldn't have been able to do that as a choice

if I hadn't already established that right of passage prior. Like, I think I've had, I've literally had, like, actually quite deep, sat down. conversations of both my parents at different times, kind of establishing the kind of new world that we're headed into. Right. Okay. Okay.

Well, that is good. That feels like a new right of passage. I'm sorry, I would also say, of course, bankruptcy and alcoholism were quite big rights of passage for me. And I didn't really, I didn't really think about that until I did that, how to fail into you with Elizabeth. And people are still talking to me about that a lot. I guess both of them were involuntary.

Oh, I don't know about alcoholism, but like, I suppose they were both. they feel quite unique to me and my journey, particularly bankruptcy. But alcoholism could be something that just happened to me, but I don't see it as that I see it as a rite of passage that got me to where I am today. So I guess you can go through things and decide whether their rights of passage at the time or even in retrospect. Yeah, sobriety is a pretty hard right of passage as well. Yeah.

Heartbreak was what made me into a man, fact. Oh, God, what was my first heartbreak? God, let's do this. I guess it was Jasper. He broke my fucking heart. He dumped me in New York on the Millennium. Maybe he thought the world was going to end. No, he just didn't fancy me anymore.

He told me. Oh, God. Was that what he said? That's fucking wild. How much is that? He's like, I don't love you anymore and I don't fancy anymore. And I want you to leave New York. Don't have to say the fancy.

You have to throw the fancy and just to get just another little... But it was an interesting right of passage for me because what it made me, do was leave the world I was in, which I had met him in, which was squat parties, and I had dreads and I was a bit of a dirty little raver. And when I came home, I decided I wanted to become one of the girls that he was, that him and I had surrounded ourselves with in New York because his sister's friends, they were all very rich, socialite New York girls. They were so

intimidating. They were called like, Taraja. And like, you know, Athena. And they were lovely to me, but, like, I felt really intimidated. So I came home. cut all my dreads off, got a weave, and started wearing like high-heel boots and jeans and camel-coats. This is heartbreaking. I know, I know. I'm so far from myself. And then he came back and liked me again and we started going out again. Oh, fuck. Who's that?

Jasper, but he died. Well... He's the same person I lost my virginity with. Well, now I can't insult him, so well done. But Jasper... Yeah, thanks a lot. Well done. Now I can't...

Now you've had to bring death into the equation. So, sure. But it was good for me because it kind of, I wonder if I would have stayed in squat parties for another two years. And if I had, I would have never been able to do my Pop One audition because I would have been too high on drugs. Nice been, nice thing, I like it.

I like it. No, no, no, no, that's good. That's good. No, you're flipping it. That's what we got. That's what we can do in this life. That's what you got to do with these rights of passage. Make it work for you.

You turn a negative to a positive. You should know that. I feel like I'm quoting Pitbull on his, iconic song with Jason Derulo. Tonight, I won all of you tonight. You know, he says Kodak twice. Give me everything tonight. Don't chat to me about Pitbull.

That's my worst period of music. Pitbull, Jason Derulo. Well, he turns a negative to a positive and he wants y'all to know that. Is that what he says? Is that the line? He said, you shit, MC. OG Pitbull was outrageous.

Give me a fucking break. Up in the club, fuck via P. I'm not giving you. I-a-a-a-a-a-t-a-t-a-tie, gang up in this thing. Yo, pit bull was crazy. This feels like a bad hip-pop right of passage for you that I know was necessary. Let's have another question. Hey, Jordan and Makita.

It's Jenny here. I think the right of passage that isn't talked about enough is meeting your third love, not your first love, which is usually like teenage love. your second love, which is the one you totally plan, the one that comes the way you think love will. And then the third one is the one that comes after the plan falls apart. And your third love is supposed to be the one that lasts. Once you've grown up a bit and you know what you want and what you don't want. And you have a better sense of who you are at your core.

And I think it's really important to align those things and what you want to achieve with the rest of your life. So yeah, a right of passage that's a good one. And you never really know about it until you get there and you think, ah, this is it. Apparently this listener also sent in a wonderful tattoo, 24-7-365, mate. That is a Rizzle Kicks lyric, Living the Dream, big up. Can I just say that's a Rizzle Kicks lyric.

It sounds like something that people say. 24-7-36-5. I say it at the beginning, it's tongue-in-cheek. 24-7-36-5, mate. The whole song is actually tongue-in-chew. cheek because the irony of living the dream is that if you do just live on an average wage in London you're probably not you're probably like quite miserable oh it's about that it's about okay socioeconomics sure sure but also we are living the dream we are you know row row your boat you know

I mean merrily merrily merrily merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream now my wrong if only you wrote that if only you wrote that 24 7365 mate in locked in dream state anyway look can i say about this i've heard this before and i've heard this spoken about So what's she saying? Your third loves the big one. Yeah. There's a belief that like there are, you know, each love that you exist within teaches you a different lesson, which is true.

The idea that there is three, I think I don't subscribe to. I think it's just too, it's too fixed and too generalized to apply to like the entire ocean of like massively complicated and ever evolving human beings. Sometimes I worry about who and why we've been told particularly. of stories, you know. What I can say for sure is that feeling an authentic love is a very relaxing experience, you know, and it's very, like, calming. And often we get stuck in cycles of hyper arousal because we think it's like lust and we think that we're obsessed and whatever. But actually, I think real love is very calming and relaxing and brings the nervous system down.

It's very calming, isn't it? Yeah. But the idea that like, that there's three parts to love, and that is just what it is, I don't think I get. And also, I think you have, yeah, I don't know, I just feel like there's so, there's so many lives. In romantic life, I think it's not just about the way someone's presence makes your soul feel and the fact that your souls feel like they're talking to each other. But there's something very old and familiar about this idea of meeting, someone that you always meant to have loved. Can I just say, I'm a massive fan of love. I really, really love love. I didn't realize I could feel love. I didn't realize I could be loved. There was loads of, like, in it as an adult. And so I'm a massive fan of it. What I,

the school of thought I follow often and read about a lot is just challenging, you know. I have a lot of friends who are women and there's a small proportion of them. Most of them are actually quite deconstructed in their outlook, but the small portion of them that talk about the idea of being chosen. And I don't think it's a hugely positive way to look at life, like, or for that to be the most important thing is to be, is to be, because they often, they're sad because they're like, why aren't I in this thing? And I'm like, because you shouldn't, there shouldn't be a pressure to achieve an idea of something that you've been told about. Yeah. Like, how do you feel? What do you want? Maybe your friends

are more important. Maybe that. I think that's really valid, this idea of being chosen, which is the way I have lived in love for so long. And I think that what's, what's, different about meeting a soulmate or someone that you are meant to be with is that you don't feel that you've been chosen, you feel that you have chosen each other, which is very different. Yeah. I also feel that like the idea that like is predestined lends itself to people

not realising that relationships involve like a lot of work. Yes, 100%. But also there is magic. Like I don't like this idea that it's like everything. And then you do subscribe to this. little bit and you do tell me this a lot, this idea that like in the beginning there's this flurry of magic and... What do you mean by magic?

You know, just like those first few months of like magic and like, you know, electricity. Magic to me in the first thrilling months of falling in love, I think magic feels... Don't you're something like the honeymoon phase. It's not the honeymoon phase. This is what I'm not doing with you. It's not the honeymoon phase. I think it's... You're literally high at the first...

first three months you're high you are like scientifically you're high this is why people there's literally there's literally slar like there's literally and a sex and love addiction anonymous like it's your you're high listen the large majority of relationships end after three months for a reason that's right that's right that's how we're ending this episode good luck everyone good luck finding your soulmate can i just say can i be more balanced what i'm trying to say is i like this idea that people can approach the idea of loves let's say it's in this three act phase, ultimately meaning that like damaging situations could help us find situations that are better for us. That I like, but confining it to three, I don't subscribe to because people,

people like what's this beautiful quote I saw like if you saw a tree, uh, that grew in like a different direction to other trees, you wouldn't think it was wrong. You just think it was part of, you just think it was natural. You think it was part of nature. You would assume like it's gone on its natural journey, right? And like, but with humans, we subscribe. If anything's like off script, we're like, whoa, that's not right. So silly, because that's where all the good shit is. The off script shit is the good shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Thank you very much, Jordan, for spilling your guts out to me once again and guiding us all. The theme for next week's listen bitch is games. And it can be the games we play with each other, all the board games from your past, whatever you want that game to be.

Let's play. See then. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persephonica show.