Miss Me? - Banksy’s Rules

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss their cultural and personal connections to Sir David Attenborough, Celebrity Traitors and Banksy. This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Oliver Geraghty & Danny Pape Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes. And that's about it. It's about it. To Miss Me, welcome to Miss Me. How was your weekend? How was last week? I personally had a bit of a nervy bee when I walked down the street to my local polling station and was told that I was not registered at my said address.

Savage. And that I couldn't vote. And I thought, oh, it will be fine. Oh, it will be fine. And it wasn't. It just wasn't. Turns out it needed that vote. In terms of the outcome of the local elections,

you are surprised that reform have done so well? Reform UK gained more seats than any other party in the election. Yeah. But still, when I was met with the results of it, a bit shocked. Yeah, a bit shocked. Isn't it interesting that, do you remember when, when I was growing up,

we didn't used to say anything about voting? It was like a, did you have, do you remember that? Well, no, we talked about it in school. Like, it was supposed to be a really private thing. Oh, like who you like personally, like I remember it being like rude to ask somebody who they're going to vote for. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know I remember that? Yeah, a little bit.

I'm sure obviously you could discuss it within family and stuff, but I just remember it being like a really almost like sacred thing. And I think it's quite interesting now that like, you know, we, yeah, I don't know, I wasn't surprised. It feels like a four man, this is what Phoebe was just saying. It's a four man race now. And actually these extreme outer parties have now come. to the forefront and now we've got reform and green battling in the way that labour and Tories used to, which is something new. Yeah, I guess my question is that I just, I just would love to know what people are

reforming to. I find it so interesting that a lot of the more right-leaning parties, whether here or obviously in America, they seem to base a lot of their ideology on like going backwards. Yeah, going back to a sacred past. Yeah, but I just don't know where that, when that is. I would love them to be specific. Like I think it a bit more sense if someone was called like redraft or reimagine. Yes, quite.

But the thing is, though, that these manifestos of a brighter future is always based on an idealistic version of the past that never really existed. It never happened when Manosphere make the – women were happy in the 50s. Were they? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really not. Otherwise, what were feminism just pop up for a laugh?

I don't understand what, like, what's going on there? They were so happy they started a movement to liberate. themselves. That sounds great. I think when it comes to a sort of yearning for the way things used to be, you start with an idealistic version of the way things were, and then you don't feel that things evolved and changed for the better. What you may feel is that things came in to ruin said Halcyan time.

Yeah, exactly. But this is where my brain stopped. Like feminism and equality. Yeah, but it's a processing error in my brain. Like, if something was working in the past, then there wouldn't have been a thing to make it not work. I feel people are unwilling to accept just like the nature of the universe. They think they can handpick what did and didn't work right.

And then the other option is the unknown, which is like a really brilliant thing to be okay with. That is like the only thing guaranteed in life is to embrace the unknown. And people talk about evolving. But then whenever they have to do something they haven't done before, they start, yeah, let you say, reimagining the past. Yeah, reimagining the past.

I'm not even reimagining it. Just like it, like you said, what do you say the word you use? idealising. Idealising, yeah. Have you seen that documentary that Jonah Hill did about his therapist

Phil Stutz? I did watch that, yeah. God, it's fucking good. I re-watched it this weekend. The tools, man. The tools. Yeah, yeah. Although, yeah.

Don't come for Stutz. I know. No, not him. Oh, yeah, sure. No, I know. No, I know. Yeah. But I tried to complimented like that.

And it's one of the... I'm just saying, therapy didn't work. Don't... It's just... be true because Phil Stutz is so incredible. It was a brilliant documentary. Brilliant documentary that Jonah Hill makes about his therapist, Phil Stutz, who works in LA and works with a lot of kind of, I imagine, renowned people.

But he's just got a really interesting approach to therapy and one of them is the tools. These tools to get you through life with more ease. And one of the outcomes of using said tools, he says, is to learn to live in uncertainty with complete peace, trust and love. And he said that is literally the number one lesson of life. Oh God, was it the BAFTAs? You don't know that it was the BAFTAs. When?

On Sunday. Did I win anything? You didn't. All right. Did I win Keith? No. No, he didn't. But don't worry, adolescence did.

Of course it did. Owen won. Christine Tremarko also won from adolescence playing Owen Cooper's mother. She's fucking fantastic. Amazing. And Stephen Graham won. You know he's been nominated like eight times. He's never actually won.

Really? Ever, no. Stephen Graham is a phenomenal actor and person. What a man. Love you, Stephen Graham. Can't get enough of you. Hosted by Greg Davies, great choice. So it's an adolescent sweep.

Yes, yes. Oh, yeah, and your favourite, the traitors of the celebrity kind. Yeah. And I do feel like I missed a party. I cannot try and go now. Catch up. To what?

Celebrity traitors. It's too late. I have to move on. It's happening again. I know. So maybe I should try and get in on this year, Maya Jammer. Yeah, definitely.

Lee's doing it. Leanne. Leanne's doing it. I was very close for anyone who's interested. You'd be so good. No, I was very close. I actually think, well, I feel like I know too many people in it. Maybe that would be good though because maybe it's harder to lie to people you know and who know you.

I think I could tell if you were lying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be awful. No, no, no, straight up. I'd be an awful traitor. Like, genuinely, an awful traitor. Unless people wanted to, like, overthink it and be like, wow, he's playing it so as if he's not a traitor. but I'm like literally, I've really struggled to lie.

You have to double, bluff, double. I'd be a good faithful, yeah. Because you're so pure of heart. I'm not pure of heart at all. I'm not. I'm a really deeply troubled person. I'm just very impulsive, which includes like just offering, like, information for no reason.

I would crumble under zero pressure. James Blunt and Hannah Fry are in traitors. Hannah Frye, my new fave. scientist. Oh, Hannah Frye. I love Hannah Frye. Yeah. She'll be good. She knows so much about so much. She's really smart. James Blunt. Hmm. James Blunt's jokes. He's very posh. It was you that told me, oh no, it wasn't you. My friend went to this, to Jay Jopling's birthday in like south of France. It was like his 60th or something. And he said it was completely nuts, like to be there all weekend. And then he ended up leaving in a car with James Blunt and his wife for like four hours.

trying to make conversation at like 6 in the morning. He said it was tricky. But I'd quite like to meet James Flann. I think he's probably quite a nice guy. I've not really met him properly. It's a great cast, man. Michael Sheen. God, Michael Sheen.

Myla from industry. Richard E. Grant. Richard. Reckett. Romesh. Rob and Rob and Romesh. That's going to be hilarious. God, they do so well, don't they?

Everyone wants to do it. Interesting. No, it's the best celebrity show, I think, in terms of just like equalizes everyone. Bella Ramsey's legend, James A cast. Jesus. Joe Lice. What a house.

Traders is like, it's just because of the format of it. It's like, would I lie to you as a panel show? Yes. Of all the shows I've done, would I lie to you as the best panel show? Because the format, it erases like people trying to bully each other for attention. Also, there is a game to be played. It's actually also a similar theme. Just lying.

Yeah. So, lying is the great equalizer. So good. Yeah. Lying brings people like Alan Carr and Cat Burns to you. Yeah, yeah, literally. It's a great unifier, it always has been. Do you think I'd be good?

Yeah, I think you're a pretty good liar. You've got a lot of experience from your, you know, like mid to late 20s. It's true. It's true, I can put all that into practice. Just imagine everyone else is yourself. Fuck you. Do you know what?

On the Stats documentary as well, he was talking about our shadows, right? And he was like, Jonah Hill brings out this picture, this cardboard cut out of him as a 14 year old, very overweight, curly hair, you know, feeling just like, scared of who he is, scared of what he looks like. And they sat with it, and I thought, God,

what would my cardboard cut out look like? And I just saw her. And for the first time, I didn't hate her, that lying, bad-weaved, overweight, crazy bitch. I was like... I mean, you were overweight's a stretch, but... I was overweight. I was overweight.

Wait. Were you? Yeah, I was called in for many meetings by many TV producers to tell me I had to sort it. That's not this, you were just living in a different time. Yeah, but they said I was fat and it had to change. They said Bridget Jones was fat. Yeah. Yeah.

Fucking ridiculous. Anyway, but yeah, the shadow part of ourselves, what would we do if it was a cardboard cutout of ourselves looking at us and you can't hate it? You can't hate it. You have to actually even protect her. Protect him. It's a very good exercise. integration. Yeah, yeah, it's good exercise.

Integration. My mum had quite an interesting week last week because she went to cook at Klink, the restaurant in Brixton Prison. Oh yeah, cool. Yeah, she went to cook with Silloman. Klink, if you don't know, which I didn't, is like, you cannot get a table at this restaurant.

It is like sort-after seat. This restaurant's interesting. It is staffed completely by prisoners, right? From the waiters to the front of house to the chefs, what is different is you cannot bring in anything in. Solomon couldn't bring his knives in, obviously.

That's so weird. Also, no phone, no laptop, Natin, no bag. Eksne on the Anything A. And Sullivan has this really interesting evening with, you know, what you usually do in service, which is you get to know the boys in the kitchen or the girls in the kitchen, you get to know them quickly, you get into a rhythm with them,

exchange stories and, you know, put on a show, as it were. He gets to know these people, he gets to know this guy. He'd been a bank robber since he was a teenager. That's like bank heist. That's like a real seven. That's why I think we're a bit selective about who we romanticise as criminals, you know. We're like, stop stealing phones in London, but robbing a bank in the 70s vibe. Now that's cool.

Of course we're not saying... The Hand Gardens Heist is one of my favourite stories in the last... Maybe in my lifetime. We're not saying go rob a bank and Jordan and I have never committed said crime. But why would it be dramatized so often if it was in a pretty interesting story? Do you know my... Why do I have so many random links in life? I don't even know.

Anyway, my mum's half-brother's half-brother. Go on. He, I don't know if he was, was he working with him or whatever, but he ended up spending a lot of time with Ronnie Biggs in the last years of his life. And Ronnie Biggs was one of the great train robbers. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, right. Sorry, yeah. Oh, man, I should know more about this. He was one of the only people who could understand him just before he passed. Wow. Because he was just like, whatever. But I remember just thinking about that and being like, the great train robbery, like, you know, I don't think there would be an equivalent now,

like the great iPhone thefts of... No, it doesn't have the same ring to it, same grandeur. It's not. But you've done stuff in prisons, haven't you? Yes, I've worked in, I've worked in Brixton Prison. Oh, the same prison. What were you doing? I work with a charity sometimes called Key for Life,

and, like, towards the end of a prisoner sentence, you get an opportunity to go into, like, a rehabilitation vibe. So I've gone in three times to... I went to Brixton Wandsworth Woolwich. Maybe I thought four. No, Wormwood Scrubs. Sorry, the Brixton One with Scrubs, Woolwich. You go in and you can do like creative writing workshops or creative music workshops.

But in Brixton, this is what was cool. We took in a horse. What? Yeah, we took in a horse. Who's we? You and the organisation? Yeah, Kee for Life. Eva, she's got some horses.

She lives in Glastonbury. So she like brought in a horse. And then horses are just dope because it's like all about how you, you know, I love horses. man, I've got a massive horse tattoo on my stomach. I just, what I love most about horses is they are, they've historically been on the front line of war. However, they are so calm. And you have to earn a horse's trust, you know,

and you have to be confident. Otherwise, the horse feels nervous. People who are scared of horses, scared horses, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have this, like, beautiful situation where there are people who are instantly humanized, I guess is the word, or, you know, anyone in the presence of an animal that size or,

And also they work a lot with horses also as a side note, work a lot with like people on the spectrum and stuff. Really? I didn't know that either. I think that makes a lot of sense because bringing an animal of any kind, I know that there is some sort of integration in the prison system of having dogs come for some afternoons. And not only are we all craving love and connection. I imagine something like a horse coming in is like a democratizing animal because it

equalizes everyone. It brings everyone down to a very base human level. Wow. Yeah. I love that you brought a horse to Brixton Prison. Of course you did. Yeah, it was mad. It's really fascinating actually some of those experiences of going in there and speaking to the people in there. I mean, that's a whole other conversation. Yeah, that's what Solomon was saying. You know, they end the shift and suddenly the reality of the situation comes crashing back, which is back to confinement and silly goes outside. You're really actually in prison. But good one. I love that you did that you fucking, of course you did, but then you took a horse into a prison. I think we'll go for a break because that's a good sentence.

Jordan took a horse into a prison to help me into Brixton, bro. David Attenborough, the 100 year birthday celebration. Love that he deserves. Come on. Happy birthday, David. Yes, and we're working on his consciousness living forever in a humanoid version of him. Excuse me? What?

If you had a button now, that would guarantee Attenborough lived forever. Oh. Would you press it? Now, this is interestingly, you bring this up because as I sat at home, sort of, you know, bathing in the centenary celebrations of basically, it's not even like he's our king. I was thinking, I don't know whether we'd know who we were. He's the best thing about Britain. He's the best thing about Britain. Thank you.

Yeah. He's the best thing about this thing, Ty, and he's the best thing about this thing. entire nation. He's the best thing we ever did. And he has been for the last 100 years. Quite. So when he dies, we really will all be lost because he's sort of been our, not even just a guiding light, but kind of like our core of something.

And I have banged on about, you know, the early parts of career, which is sort of he is a, he does have TV shows. And then David Attenborough becomes the controller of BBC 2 and sort of popularises what arts and culture look like on television with the wave of 19. 1969 colour television coming into the world. So he gives us Wimbledon. He gives us this incredible TV show called Civilisation, which is about the European architecture of the world.

So he's a huge part of what television becomes and how it represents the arts. And then he shows us the rest of the world. You know what I'm saying? Then we have life on earth. Then we have... He's showing us like tribesmen in Haiti and showing us different races and cultures and languages.

And I think that at this time in this country, we know what, we know what racism looked like in the 70s, in the 60s and 70s and 80s. And I think it would have been a really good way of doing accidental politics, which is what the best television can be, which is curiosity and learning about others will hopefully educate and change things. And I think, I mean, he did save the world, but he's done a bloody good effort. Yeah, it'd be difficult to understand, like, how much, like, I mean, I can't believe how incredible the recent shows have been. I mean, I know it's been consistent over the, since, yeah, since TV was colour, but planet Earth is truly, like, one of the greatest shows ever made. It just is, isn't it? I'm glad they have the extended part at the end where they show how it was made. I usually wouldn't be into things like that, but actually it is extraordinary.

It's actually extraordinary, the time and the lengths and the effort that they go to to to capture. and remind us that there's just the beauty on earth and of earth is just really, it's just beyond, we don't even need to try and understand it, it's just beyond, you know, and I think just be reminded of that is just so important. And what if he'd never done it, Jay? What if you'd never, in the bloody 60s and 70s,

thought we should do more televisions about the natural world and people around the world? It led such a charge for what we now just call like nature television or like national television. or he just happened to want to do that and be very curious about it. Got a shout out. There have been a number of shows

in and around about nature too. Attenborough's just the goat. Yeah. I mean, Steve Irwin, obviously, you had Bill Odie just knocking about, looking at birds. Yeah, I mean, I love Bill Odie. I forgot about Bill Odie.

Michaela. Who's the one new, Michaela? Michaela Stracken. Big Cat Diary, I loved when I was a kid. I really loved that. Also, there's now, my man, there's like a black guy. now.

What? Shit, I met him the other day. I was so gas because I was like, oh my God. Is it the guy that was on Strictly?

He's got locks, yes. Hamza Yassin. Hamza Yassin. Absolute legend doing up wildlife vibes. Oh yeah, Chris Packham,

legend. I don't really fuck with Chris Packum. Wow, fair. I know, is that terrible? Is that awful? No,

not really. I mean, he's literally harmless and does quite good work. Yeah. I mean, you're just a terrible bitch, but yeah,

okay. I just don't know. Yeah, I feel like he's a good person. But also, if we hadn't had Attenborough holding it down, we might have just ended up with Verna Herzog. Who's that again? This guy, do you know, Werner Herzog, the guy who made the film about a bear?

Oh, yeah. But he is, he's like, he has the most nihilistic commentary of nature ever. It is genuinely. How can you be nihilistic about nature? Watch. There's one speech he does about penguins, which is one of the saddest things. No. Because there is like a kind of, there is a type of penguin.

I mean, that actually just at some point becomes so depressed that it just walks off. What do you mean walks off from its family? Shortly afterwards, we saw him heading straight towards the mountains. Oh my God. 70 kilometers away. Okay, I get it. But why? But why?

But why? Right. No, that's quite good. So basically, Werner Herzog has zoned in on an nihilistic penguin. Right. He also has famously said that chickens are morons. I think I quite like him. He tells the truth. And he also says, listen. The bird sign misery. I don't think they sing. They just screech in pain.

Okay, so I think what we've got here is the direct... He's the antithesis of Attenborough. The antithesis of Attenborough. He's gone into nature and gone, this is such... This is psychosis. But isn't that funny? It's like, what a decision to make that actually the sounds of birds is singing? It's screaming.

Screaming. It's ridiculous. No, but it's something to think about. It's a choice. It's something to think about, you could argue that some, you know, some of nature has been made in anger. But anyway, it was just funny as an antithesis to Antenbrough, that if I hadn't been here to reinstate the balance, we might be ruled only by Werner Herzogs. Yes.

Who turned us towards a, like a kind of cynical, nihilistic approach to, like the, like, beauty of the animal kingdom. Exactly. And what we were was given this kind of like warm hand to sit in and be shown everything from this like place of real like comfort, safety and curiosity. I mean, happy birthday, David. Happy birthday, David. One other thing I want to say, which I love about David is I also used to think, and this is when I smoked a lot. I was watching once and I thought, how do we know that he's not just making up some of these animal names? I was watching one one episode in the desert and I swear he said something like, Here we have the sticky sand,

the sticky brown sand leaf. Like sticky brown sand frog or insect or whatever. And I was just there thinking he actually could have just made that name up. He could have just had like question marks. If anyone could lie through his teeth to us and we'd accept it, David Ambrose. Yeah, sticky brown sand insect 100%. That sounds right. That sounds like if David says it, it's the truth.

I would never question whatever he wanted to name it. But can I say, as my last David Atambra story, I have a kind of family link a little bit to the Atambra's because my mum's dad is a director, was a director, sorry, identical twin, the Bolting Brothers. Yes. For the cinema heads, you know, they might know. He made Brighton Rock, Richard Atamber paid Pinky in the original.

And that led to a situation where I actually attended one of David Atambra's birthdays when I was a kid. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, was it at his house in Richmond? No, it was at BFI. Oh, of course it was. It was on the South Bank. And I remember, oh wait, hold on, sorry.

Maybe it wasn't his birthday. Maybe he was at Richard Attenborough. I don't know. Anyway, it was an Attenborough thing. Some sort of Attenborough family celebration. But I was a massive Attenborough fan already at that point. I must have been like 14 or maybe younger. I don't know.

But like when I spoke to him, I spoke to him for 20 seconds. Well, David, not Richard. David Attenborough, I spoke to him. And it was as if I was in, he just talks like that. Like, you know, someone said, someone said like, oh, hey, David, this is, you know, Emma's son. Or maybe John's grandson, Jordan. And then he went, hello Jordan. No.

Have you tried the chocolate fountain? Jordan, that's a really good Attenborough. That was good. Hello, Jordan. That's good. And then I was like, I haven't tried. chocolate fountain actually but I will now

if you think it's some great strawberries if you think it's worth trying David then I'm there yeah yeah dude I was whatever you say bro whatever you say but also me and Jade went to the planet Earth screening last year

as well we were buzzing about that and all I wish I had an Attenborough story yeah I'd like to also mention that David Attenborough commissioned Monty Python flying circus right? Wow Wow he's a dude that gets it

do you know what I think Maybe strictly come dancing is now going to be hosted by Emma Willis. I don't really care, but I'm happy for her because I was a bit worried about Emma Willis a few months ago. I was like, God, I remember when she got the voice and she was suddenly like, because remember Emma, I remember when Emma was like a jobbing MTV presenter. And then she sort of started coming up the sidelines. I can't remember what it was through. And then suddenly got the voice.

And I was like, whoa. What do you mean? What do you mean? I can't remember what. She did Big Brother. That was it. I can't remember. She replaced Divina, mate.

It was like one of the biggest, like one of the hardest. That was a hard, yeah. And I remember the first couple of seasons was tough. And then she had like a real moment, I think when she held, was it Roxie to account on the celebrity one in an interview? And then everyone kind of like, she kind of won everyone over because she was like, yeah, she just showed a bit of backbone. Yeah. Emma's wicked, man. And Matt.

I love the both of them. Great couple. Like really powerful story. It's deep stuff, man. Honestly. I've had two very, very deep conversations with Matt on two separate. shows and privately, but how I met him was through us talking about, I think, ADHD on one series I was doing. And then I went on his podcast about, on the mend about sobriety.

And it just, he speaks quite frankly about that. And it's tough because, you know, obviously didn't act particularly well. Obviously, I know him for my Popwell days. We were very close in the busted days. I know. He was invited to 21st, I remember. Oh, God. Was he? Yeah, he was. Okay. Should we talk about Banksy? It's interesting that Matt has been so open about his sobriety and it's become a really big part of kind of the new angle of his career, like helping people and educating people and being really honest. Yes.

And as we segue into talking about Banksy, it's someone whose mystery has been his greatest power. And isn't it on a day like today in May, 26, isn't mystery the most valuable thing we have and probably the most elusive thing to attain? because we're all about the opposite of that. It's the biggest flex possible. It's the biggest flex possible.

And it does take a lot of guts to go against the grain and not tell anyone anything about who you are and what you're up to and just let them see it for themselves. I promise you if I could do that, I would. Guts and money. Guts and cash. Absolutely. It takes both.

I met a kid once who was like a guy who is the heir to, well, I met him in a house that was valued at like $65 million pounds and he's got like 200 Instagram followers. Well, the thing is, I would say that about a lot of... Just barely posts, doesn't care. Yeah, but I have a lot of... I know a lot of people who are rich, and instead of just being happy and being rich,

feel like they should be a star when there's absolutely no reason for them to be. Oh, it's, I mean, I've found as a musician, there's a lot of rich people who find the concept of, like, creativity or the creative arts, like absolutely spellbinding. Yeah, of course. Like, people will be, like, I've met people who, again,

like, millionaires and been like, oh my God, can I come to the studio just to watch. Yeah, watch the... There's something that they come. Or I know people who will buy like tickets to the BAFTAs, for example, for like hundreds of thousands of pounds just to be there. Yeah, I would, I would, yeah, just to be around that. You know, I mean, if you think about the history of Banksy, he was deeply anti-establishment, deeply political, always has been. And I suppose was working against the government and against the councils because his work would pop up in unexpected places around the country, starting in Bristol where he's from.

But now with this new piece of art work and sort of all his output in the last sort of 10 years, he must be working with the council and the government because Westminster Street. No way. Of course he is. Otherwise they just take it down. Why would they be like,

it's a lovely new addition to Palmao, this new, like, highly political piece of art, which is sort of a man with a flag, billowing in front of him, covering his face to blind him. It's in a Waterloo Place right near Palmao. I'm sorry, I'm confused. This is what Westminster Council said about it, they said.

You think Banksy is collabing with a council to just install it? I'm asking because Westminster Council said it's a striking addition to Palmao. What? If any other bitch puts them art up on Palmel, they'd be taken away in shackles and thrown into the dungeon. It's a city of rules. Yeah, yeah. Also, one of the most surveyed cities in the world. Right.

So I feel like Banksi's not just being a man of mystery and sticking some art, some political, highly political art, right by, in the middle of Westminster, without working with them in some way. You know what I'm saying? Oh no, because it depends on the council. Some people are miserable. That's what I'm trying to say. No, but this is Westminster Council are contradicting themselves.

They've said it's a striking addition, but they've also said they had no permission to do this. So why aren't they just taking it down? Because that's different, isn't it? Because it is Banksy. That's what I mean. So they're acting all like, well, they had no... It's like just your gas that Banksy's decided to do this in Westminster.

Yeah. But remember, there was a council, I think it was two years ago, who covered it. And people were like, that's fucking nuts. Oh, right. Or one cut the bit of the wall out or something. Oh, yeah, they cut the wall out. Why would they bother to release a statement saying, we had nothing to do with this.

We're not pleased with it. It's illegal, but we think it's a striking addition. That's a very confusing statement from said council. Because people, because like Banksy is at the size now of reputation where he is above the Lord. We used to do this thing called Garfstonbury, which I'm sure you've been to, which is when we would bring the sound systems

down to the park in Hackney and have a party for Garfield for his birthday. Nice. We cannot do that now because we'd be shut down in five seconds. So this is only happening because everyone else gets a know in this city, apart from Banksy, it would seem.

So I bet Banksie can drive down LTN roads as well. He's also very rich, so he could have just like, I agree with you on one hand, but for the sake of argument, you could present the idea that I also believe in the world that the best way to get away with something is to actually just do it in plain sight. Like, for example, if I was a security guard or I was watching the security footage of Palmao

and somebody with like a big truck pulled up and started installing a statue, I would assume that I've just not been across the planning permission. Yes, exactly. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's so blatant. You'd be like, this must have been organised with pals of a bit. That's happened a lot.

Like, there was that guy who got done because he sent like two million pounds worth of invoices to Facebook or something. I got you'd have to check me on that, but he just kept sending them. And then obviously, because we always have to account for human error. You know, there's just a person somewhere doing a job.

Someone sat by a camera or somebody looking through or whatever, and everybody's human, everyone's exhausted. It's a bronze-like sculpture that they've said they might get rid of, but they haven't, have they? So we'll see. I like Banksy. I think Banksy's cool.

I feel like art is. is like a really, it's been made to feel inaccessible by, I guess, the way in which it's spoken about or like the people who buy it. I guess like the art world, it's so much so expensive, everything's so expensive. So I just assume that it's like unavailable or it's for other people or perhaps like expressionism or impressionism

doesn't seem to make sense to some people because, yeah, I guess there's been this ring fencing of like having the time even to just to go to a gallery and just stand in front of something and think how you feel. Like all of the parts of, it I think seem to be associated with time and time is often associated with class. Like, for example, like cricket, like the fact there's a cricket match is going to be five days long.

Like, you literally can't do that unless you're rich. No one's going on. Does no one got to go to work? That's mad. But, um, but yeah, it's, I mean, sorry, I'm not saying now that people who like cricket are rich, but I'm saying that's obviously started from people who have loads of spare time, which wouldn't signify their working. Elitist.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but with Banks, it's like, I know there's, there's always going to be critique on like, you know, whether he's become the establishment. or whether, you know, you can earn that much money and not be corrupted in some way. But I like where he's come from. He's a graph artist.

Yeah, exactly. He's started as a graph artist. Can you even like, I mean, it is actually kind of a beautiful rags to riches tail. And I would argue that Banksy has become as important in this country as Attenborough when it comes to what represents who we are. And just taking a stand as cool, man. Yeah, man.

Like, it actually is, you know, I know performance of activism sucks. I don't know enough of it, but I do know that, like, pictures and, like, just images can really, they can really like start a thought process for somebody. And, you know, I think those, those kind of movements would be social engineering. You know, like if everybody, say for example, there was like 10,000 banksy suddenly, all putting the same image up at the same time all around the country. You would, obviously, that would have an impact. Obviously, that would be able to shift thought if it was powerful enough as an image, you know.

Conceptually. Yes, conceptually. That's ultimately advertising. Yes, it is. This advertising is, you know, it's like the same as a billboard, but it's just a billboard is a little bit more. political. Yeah, exactly. It's just thought-provoking, which it bloody should be.

And actually, I haven't been down to C, said new Banksy, but I am going to go. But even just looking at the pictures of it, it just suddenly, it's like this huge representation of being complicit. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It was like, oh, that's dark. Yeah, yeah. And he just still gets you.

It's like, boom! Yeah. The steel man argument would be the people who he's referring to wouldn't give a fuck. but, you know, like, I don't know. I guess it's just, it's better than nothing. Yeah, man. All right, honey bun. I will see you for listen, bitch.

The theme is... Languages. I put up a story of... And it was a story where it said, like the biggest speaking languages in the world. And all these messages, like, I thought it was this, I thought, oh. A heady debate will unfold in languages, I think.

Oh, I think I know this. The most spoken language. But anyway, Nothing to be discussed with you, the world. We'll see you then. Bye-bye. Boom. Thanks for listening to Miss Me.

This is a Persephoneka production for BBC Sounds. Hello, I'm Tyler West. And I'm Alfie Watts. And this is The Detour, the official companion podcast to race across the world. This is the post-episode checkpoint where you'll hear the latest chat around each episode from us and our race superfan special guests. Plus, I'll be joined each week by a resident travel expert, Alfie. That's you, man. I'll be revealing my optimal way to travel through each leg,

including visits to all of those unmissable detours along the way. And we'll also have some not seen anywhere else exclusive content at the end of every episode. I cannot wait. The detour will land straight after each episode of Race Across the World. You can watch on EyePlayer or listen on Sounds, where you'll also find extra bonus content. We'll see you then.