Miss Me? - Bitch, Listen! Weak Become Heroes

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Miquita Oliver and Zawe Ashton answer your questions about clubbing.Next week Lily is back and we want to hear your questions about BOOKS. Please send us a voice note on WhatsApp: [phone]. Or, if you like, send us an email: [e-mail] episode contains very strong language, adult themes, and discussions about alcohol. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. deal ratings and price history. So you know a great deal when you see one. That's cargurus.ca. Cargurus.ca. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. This episode of Listen Bitch has a lot of strong language and adult themes and to make it even worse a lot of references to alcohol. But we're in the club, so what do you expect? Welcome to Listen Bitch or when we do it with Zari Ashton, in honour of Zowie Ashton, we call it Bitch Listen. You better listen.

You better listen. Better listen. I really like Bitch Listen, and someone shouted at me at Alanis Morissette, Bitch Listen! I'm like, yes, yes. It's coming through. It's coming through, a changing culture. I have to say, Listen Bitch is so good, I never thought it could be better. It's coming through. It's coming through, a changing culture.

I'm just saying, this bitch is so good, I never thought it could be better. No one has bettered it. And me and Lilly have been saying this to each other since we were like nine, so well done you. Thank you. I could only build on what was there. Welcome to this show.

The theme is... Clubbing! And we have to do a real... okay, you want a little shake it like that. We must really define the differences between, because I'm just thinking, hmm, we've done raving, we've done going out out and now we're doing clubbing. But clubs are very different to just parties. And I do have a whole section of my life that is more clubbing years. I think that's important that we have that distinction today. I think it's important. I'm also sad for you that Lily really isn't sitting in front of you. No!

I know clubbing really belongs to her. She is a graver. But I will, I will. Look, just because it's very much in the rear view mirror for me doesn't mean I wasn't there at the time. That's right. Shaking a shoulder. I bet you went to White Heat.

Did you go to White Heat? What's that? Oh, that was like an indie night at the end. Was it at the end? Yes, White Heat at the end. Yes, right? So, okay, I know who you are now. Let's have a first question for this week's Bitch List.

Hi, my name's Sophie from Leeds. My question is when was the first time you ever went to a nightclub? I was 15 and I went to a club called Planet Earth, which had a revolving dance floor on a night, like school night. I think it was about 10 pounds in and you got every drink for 10p, 5p, 2p.

And we went back to my friends after and you got every drink for 10p, 5p, 2p. And we went back to my friends after and we stood in her caravan for us to death and then went to school the next day. About a year later, I then got caught and got grounded for about a year. But I want to know what your experience was the first time you went clubbing and did you get caught and were you underage?

And did you have fun? Cause I loved it. The reason I'm laughing is because I was so, if we're talking about the first nightclub I ever went to, I was in a Moses basket. Because my mom didn't give a shit. That's epic. In the cloakroom at the Wag Club in Soho.

And I hope there's a lot of people sort of 40, no, 50, 60 plus going, oh, the Wag Club. Cause the Wag was, from what I hear, what I sort of remember was the spot in Soho. It was a real melting pot of like that 80s, next level creativity, creatives, like just something that we did not experience in the club, in our clubbing history. In the 90s we had our own ship, but that was different. So I'm very proud to say I was a newborn baby in a Moses basket at the wag. Sorry mom for bringing you guys, My mom loves to tell people.

You just have cool in your DNA. It was good, I was born- It's just encoded. It's just coded into you. It's very deep, it rhymes very deep. And what about you, how old were you? Well, this is probably another definition that we need to throw out there.

Are we talking the underage clubs, you know, like the ball, you know, the teenage balls. Oh, did you go to underage raves or? No, it was like the underage organized like balls that were in clubs. So they'd be in clubs like Coco. So you were in a club environment, but it wasn't what I would define as clubbing. Were you allowed to drink? No. Okay. Not inside. You couldn't buy drinks inside but you

could obviously buy a hooch from the shop. Where you could sneak some Bacardi in yeah sure. You could have a Bacardi Breezer on the bus on the way there. I mean Alcopops was such a massive part. They had us where they wanted us to be. Listen, I have my cigarettes, my alcopops. I was, I thought I was a bad man when I was a teenager. It's so funny though, because when you're that young, because yeah, to start this early is nuts, but like you, you're dying to get in there. You're dying.

You're like, just get me into that rave. I remember Phoebe went to balloon, got into balloon Goldie's night with our friends, Olivia and Kate, and she was about 12 or 13. And so once she did that, we were all kind of incensed to like, right, okay, I guess we should start trying to do this. But the fridge would never let us in the fridge in Brixton. We're like, you wish. Oh, the fridge. The last nights trying to get across London because the fridge would be the only place that was still open. And there weren't direct routes to south in those days.

We weren't going south. Just so you know, that wasn't ever on the radar for the night until things got desperate. I have love for south, mad love for south. Mad love for south. When you were coming from east, we weren't thinking about that. You felt you needed to take a passport. Yeah, yeah. It was too far.

It felt like going to France. But you would go. Clubbing would take, you know, you do it for the rave. You do it for the club. Like it's good, we're going to make the pilgrimage. So I suppose I was hideously young and you were about the average age where people start going to clubs, I think 13. That's about 14. But then if I think of my proper club,

first club night, not the second underage ball, like jokes evening, I would say probably one of the garage clubs, maybe in Tottenham, somewhere like the Opera House. Oh my God, that sounds bad man. Which was bad man and it was scary. Was it? We're not in a gentrified, I need anyone who knows the East of London as a gentrified entity to just throw those images out, get to a laptop, Google Tottenham Circa, the time that I'm talking about, like late 90s, 90s,

and just sit with it. Yeah, yeah. Because it was different. It was a different place. And Opera House was, it was very much your, it was very much your pure garage club. It was, you know, you fold the flyer into a fan. Oh my God, vibes.

Vibes, you have your little bag. Did you catch Bagleys? Cause I missed Bagleys. Bagleys came and went. Bagleys was like if some older people that you knew were going out and you were going with them. It's the generation just above, isn't it?

Just above. Let's not go into too many clubs. I don't want you to waste all your clubs. Let's have another question. So that you still got some clubs. You're like predicting I have so few. And you're like... So far it's sounding pretty fucking healthy actually Zoe. Let's have one more question. Hello, this is Alice from Essex. My question for you about clubbing is about the toilet experience. I am one of those people that

needs to pee all the time. So I always find it really annoying when there's a massive queue, which that always is for the ladies. But my question is, what is a unique experience you've had in the toilets? Because I feel like that's a massive part of the night usually, or for me anyway. Thank you. It's a very spiritual place, the bathroom of the club. Wow. A lot of bonding. I'm thinking of instantly coming to the toilets at Fabric. Oh my God. Okay.

I hate Fabric. Just preface, I cannot do a super club. I never have been able to. I hate fucking trying to find those toilets. How did you hate Fabric? Cause it's a little too much rave for me. Just too much. It's too much club.

It's too much club for me. It's just too much club for me. And I rarely like the music. But go ahead, tell me about your group. Because it's kind of, they're open and circular. That's a shocker. They were open, they were the first mixed toilet that I'd ever been in.

Right. So they're kind of a circle, taps in the middle almost look like a urinal, so there's like a middle bit, which is all the taps that you go to at the end, obviously, hopefully you're washing your hands in the club. I mean, it's very, no, but it is very communal. It was a communal thing.

It was almost like that butcher's steel doors, it was kind of crazy and I just remember being like wow, I am, there is a man coming out of the toilet store. And I'm going to go in. Right. And I'm going in after him and there's an interaction, of course there is because he's a young man and I'm a young woman in the club and I was like this is getting electric over here, this is kind of a place where people are.

Quite exciting. There's stuff going on in these toilets and then just outside the toilets were the beds. Oh my god. Do you remember the beds at Fabric? I was a bit too young for any real stuff to be going on in those beds. Did people actually go to the beds to like get with each other in the club,

lying down on duvets? Why do you think there were beds? My God, I hate Fabric. They could have been chairs. They could have just been chairs. They don't have to be beds. Okay, fucking fabric. I mean, someone I know went the other day, I was like,

you have to be joking. You have to be fucking joking. What about your fabric? I actually went back for like the 16th birthday party and it was tragic. It was tragic because we were aged out. We were priced out of the time. And I was going back and I wasn't even that old.

I was like 28 or something. But I was going back and there were the kids who were me at the time. And I used to look at the people in their late 20s like bless them. Bless them for coming out. Oh look, they're wearing trainers with a dress. Bless their ass. They look so shit. Totally. I love when you would look at people at like 35 and be like, God, I can't believe they're still going to the car. I can't believe they leave the house at 35. And at 35 I was like, oh,

oh, oh shit. And now I wouldn't even think twice about being 41. I'm raving. Like not at all. I do not see any weirdness there at all. But as I've said before, you just have to kind of adapt your rave, I think. You know, cause I love the elders raving. Like when the 60 year olds have like a big old reggae ragga shoobs. Like I love when the elders have a party.

They're always the better parties. And they have the better clubs. I love the elders partying. I think you have to be maybe post 60 to be maybe super confident with it. I'll say I had that feeling not so long ago, about two years ago. And funny enough, it was also in a toilet. We got away for New Year and the hotel was throwing a New Year's party. I wasn't happy with my outfit again, see said maternity wear episode, but I pulled it together. I had a sparkly skirt, kind of like a little shirt off the shoulder. I was like, mama's done her best. Mama, you know, putting, you

know, breast pads in, it was, you know, it was a mess. No, mama had done her best. Come now. A little two piece. Mama done her best, come now. A little two piece. Mama did her best. I was out there and then I was kind of just on my own, just found myself just on my own, like raving and like dancing this night. And I was like, this feels really good.

I feel really good. And then I went into the toilet or towards the toilet and this very young girl was looking at me like and I was like she's coming towards me, she's gonna say something, what's she gonna say? Don't hug me, you know, I don't know you, you know, it's not 12 o'clock yet, let's just keep it cool, yeah? She went, she went, I really love your skirt, it's so funky. Oh my god. She was doing to me what I used to do to the elders raving. She funky'd you. Pitiful look and then like say something to that compliment them so they feel part of the thing. And so they feel like it was worth leaving the house tonight. It's like, okay,

thank you. Thank you. I actually thought I was looking quite fly. So I'm spiraling into the into the midnight. It's like I had an episode. Yeah. So I've I've had the mic with two stories there. There you go. See, she has been clubbing. Why don't you ask for the next question, my love? Can we please have the next club question? My love. Can we please have the next club question? Hi, my name is Jennifer and I'm from Derry. And me and my lifelong friends are making our way back from a couple of days in Donegal and we've been reminiscing about our clubbing days in the 90s. So there's Martina here and there's Jemma and Deirdre.

So we got up to so much mischief back in those days and we've some great stories to tell from going through two or three police checkpoints to get to a club to getting thrown out for climbing up the speakers, the sound system, waking up in the toilets when the club was completely closed and everyone's gone home. We were wondering, thankfully, there was no digital record. But what do you think about clubbing today? Can clubbers really let their hair down when everything we do is constantly being recorded? Love the

podcast. Bye. Thank you, girls. I love that you're all there together having a little clubbing reminisce with mystery. Yes. That's literally why we're here for you. I imagine it's total shit now. You're still clubbing? What? Don't tell me imagine. You're still in the club. You're the one to answer this. Do you know, I got taken to a club two weeks ago

and I just, the music, I couldn't even pretend to have a good time because I am, if the music, if I hate the music, I cannot, Zoe. I need bass, I need drums, and I actually realize I really need vocals. Yes. The relentless thrum of mediocre dance music kills me, kills every part of who I am. That was like Shakespearean. Thank you. I was poetic enough and it really upsets me because I

really because I see people that I respect like my cousin Silliman who has great taste in music and he can just he's like yeah we're out in it it's like but this fucking shit music I can't. So that was my last club experience. And I genuinely, the next day felt really sad. I was like, I think I don't know how to party anymore. I don't think I know how to rave. I think it's gone. But then the wedding brought it back. I was on that floor. So I guess I just need Jazzy B and Tiffany Calvert. Just need the V&A. Yeah, I need the V&A. And, I need the V&A. And soul to soul.

A private party and a soul to soul. I'm not asking for much, okay? Just some legends upon legends. But I really did feel like maybe that's, maybe I'm done there. What would that mean? Yeah, I can't dance any, I find it hard to dance. The rave has also left me. Apart from the occasional night

where you're like taken over again and you feel free. But your girls, right? Okay, so like that lady with all her girls, we all have that group that we've done this with. And I wonder if they ever call you and are wanting to go to a club these days. Do you ever still do that? I think there's still a flirtation with the idea

and then the reality after five minutes of speaking just feels too much. What I will say is international clubbing. Oh okay. Listen, listen. It's a bit. I forgot you're international. I'm an international clubber. Because I'd definitely be probably too scared to go to a club internationally. So tell me about this. That's when the freedom and the confidence and the adventure, I would say, come back. So I have been clubbing in Paris with my best friend, deepest home girl, who actually we didn't go teenage clubbing

together because we met in our late twenties, but we've, we've hit some really amazing clubs in Paris. There are scenes in films of like great nights in Paris. Like there's a particular scene in this, the remake of Sabrina. And it's like a 90s film and she goes to like a club and it's like they're playing like Stevie Wonder and like reggae and shit and everyone's dancing but there's like good wine. I was like this might be interesting.

This is where we find the latter years combination for clubbing. We need good wine. We need people who are respectful and chic and French. And then we need the French DJs who actually, that French hip hop and everything, when it starts to just really give, you just can't leave the dance floor. I would say we had a transcendent night in Silencio,

which is David Lynch's nightclub. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. What? I didn't know that he had one. Look, you have to rock up after like two or like one because otherwise it's private members up until like one and then you go to it is like entering David Lynch's R.I.P. David Lynch's like mind. Wow. As you go down the stairs there's like weird kind of neon photography. Fucking Twin Peaks energy.

It's got Twin Peaks energy. The smoking area is just like these indoor kind of like birch trees, you're like wandering through these trees, define fellow, yeah. That's when I can go back to the clubbing. Once you've had this kid, I think we should go to Paris and go clubbing. Should we make that a plan? Makita, don't toy with my emotions.

No, you don't tease me, Zowie Ashton, because I want to put this in the diary. Let's do that. I was suddenly like, that's maybe what I need to do. Maybe the next phase of my life is international clubbing. International bitch. How far ahead can you put your own star? I'm not letting you get off the hook. That's very forties. And we can also maybe be like Brazil. Brazil, Berlin also. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We don't want the camera phones out. We're going to say we didn't answer the ladies question on social media, but it's for me a very obvious answer, which is yes, of course it's ruined everything and you can't

be free in the same way. Next question, please. Hi Zowie. Hi Makita. I'm Jodie. I am from Sheffield and I want to know what the best chat is that you've ever had in the smoking area whilst out clubbing. Oh, great question. Is there anything better than flirting in the smoking area whilst out clubbing. Ugh, great question. Is there anything better than flirting in the smoking area? I do not think so. Must say that we of course don't recommend smoking. I would love to quit smoking and Zoe no longer smokes.

So there you go, two sides of the coin. And of course we remember when we could smoke inside. This is very much a question for someone of today because we can remember when there was no area. What do you mean go outside? You were just in the cloud. But the thing is, actually, it's probably helped good smoking chats, because it created,

this is interesting, actually, it's very interesting, it actually created an entire new part of socializing when we stopped being able to smoke inside. Yeah. And now it's a vital, not vital, but it's a, you know, well trodden path than the smoking bit where you go. Yeah. And you're either talking intimately with someone or you go with a crowd.

I would say my clubbing life really decreased in value after I gave up smoking. You missed out on the best bits. When did you give up smoking? How old were you and why? Very long time ago. It was when my godson was born actually. And I remember holding him, this was 14, nearly 14 years ago. I remember holding him and I could smell my own breath and I was like, mm-mm. Not with this beautiful new life. Not with this new, pure, you know,

sweet smelling little rosebud. I can't remember the particular, particularly best conversation, but I've had some bloody good flirts in the smoking area. Have you picked someone up? Has someone picked you up? Was it like, let's leave the smoking area and go to yes another smoking area

yeah i mean cigarettes lead the way don't they it's like this has been enjoyable shall we maybe go somewhere else to do this again yeah let's have another cigarette yeah there was someone i was dating whenever they said should we go have a cigarette and then let's go kiss and i was always like yeah let's go have a cigarette yes the smoking area was also the snogging area yes exactly yeah exactly yeah if someone says do you want to go for a cigarette it means they like you and they Yes, the smoking area was also the snogging area. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. If someone says, do you want to go for a cigarette? It means they like you and they want to kiss you.

Yes, you're right. That was the beginning of courtship in the clubs in our time. Oh, it's sweaty on this dance floor. And because it's the modern age, I'm going to go to the smoking area. Zowie's not coming because she doesn't smoke. And we'll reconvene back on the floor, deep in the club. ["Dreams of a New World"] Welcome back to Listen Bitch.

The theme is clubbing. Mm-mm, mm-mm, mm-mm. Can we have another clubbing question, please, caller? Make it a deep cut. Yes, sir. That's it. What? That's it.

I was like, let's say something of it, and then you did it. Oh, make it a deep cut. Oh, it's gonna be like a deep cut. Brilliant, brilliant. Hi, Zerri and Makita. My name is Kira and I'm from Manchester. My question to you is what

advice do you have for someone who hasn't been clubbing much but would like to do it more? Oh, that's such a sweet question. What's holding you back? My question is what's holding you back? We need to start there. Let's start there, but she might not have deep practice like we seem to have had. Maybe it does take a certain amount of confidence to enter the club. You have to kind of, you've got to be quite hard. You got to want it. I would say growing up in London has been, was the prime, was the priming ground for being a clubber?

Cause you were like, no hats, no trainers, yeah, whatever. Scary bouncers, I can deal with it. No hats, no trainers. No hats, no trainers. It takes a while to learn how to deal with bouncers. It's an etiquette. And I think if you're a hardened London raised gal, you're kind of leagues ahead.

But I never thought about someone not being confident, maybe enough to go clubbing. Well, I would say that there are so many ways to rave in the club. And if you, as I was saying, how specific I feel about certain types of music, if you know what music you like, you can be led by that.

You don't just have to go to a club and listen to dance music because that's what you can be led by that. You don't just have to go to a club and listen to dance music because that's what's on at the club. Yeah. Be like a detective, like really seek out the stuff that makes you feel good because there is a sort of homogenized version

of the club and it doesn't, it might not float your boat, babe. And there are so many things out there. That's what I meant about like, it's like a particular Raganite down in West London down at Maxilla, which is for over 40s, we should do that as well. We have to well, we're welcome now, aren't we? They'll let us in now. Great. We're in that box. We've checked that box. So I'm really interested in that and like, you know, trying to discover

what really excites me about leaving the house, to be honest. I love that. But also maybe, and I think you'll agree with this, do your research and also get your outfit, the clubbing outfit a bit like, you know, I can't really exercise unless I have the right outfit. If I was going to a club, not feeling in the right outfit, I would also feel like a little under confident. Yeah. What was your clubbing outfit like in your hey day? Hey day? I would say more like my outfits were good at like not clubs but like squat parties. And that was very, I mean, it sounds awful, what I'm gonna say now, but at the time I was like, I rule. It was a lot of combat trousers, sorry, cargo trousers

from what was that place under the stables in Camden called? It's like cyber dog. Oh my god. Cyber dog. Oh, deep cut. Cyber dog baggy, like cargo trousers, and then like tiny little crop tops. I was, you know, I was 13, I was in great shape. And sometimes a dummy.

I did that. Don't worry about that because that was the thing in our time. I had like 14 around my neck. Yeah. I could barely move. We used to have a lot of dummies. You just had the mixture of plastic dummies.

Oh God, thank you for bringing that memory back. The dummies were very important at one state. And then people started to wear the actual dummies. That, you know, again, from the nineties, like an actual child's dummy. Yes. I was like, wow, okay, that's a deep cut. This person's like really committed to this look.

But the outfit buying was really important as the lead up. So I would say that as well. You know, all our old haunts, Kukai, Miss L fridge, establish your clubbing look. And I think that's a recipe for feeling good. And if you want reference points, I'm sorry, if you look up 90s garage raves in like Bagley's, the looks from the girls, oh, and the guys,

but the girls like, oh, I love like pedal pushers and little crop tops and like- Pedal pushers was me. Chainmail tops and just such a vibe. Actually now my clubbing look is very 90s garage raver. That's what I kind of wore to my cousin's birthday. I loved it. I was like, yes, yes. Love that. I don't think I'll ever be able to wear a pillow pushers again. But I did it at the time.

When we go to Paris, you'll wear a pillow pushers for me, darling. Be ready. Handkerchief top. Handkerchief top. Absolutely. Handkerchief top. Handkerchief top. That's just a scarf and you can just tie it. I did that to an event the other day and I was like,. Hang a chief top. Hang a chief top. That's just a scarf and you can just tie it. I did that to an event the other day

and I was like, that's a fucking look. Zoe, oh God, you're gonna leave me after this. So why don't you? I don't wanna go. I don't want, it's like the club, I don't want the lights to go on. When they go on, I'm gonna be really sad and I have to go and find another club.

I love a listen bitch metaphor within listen bitch that's my favorite thank you I don't want to leave the dance floor either thank you. You asked the last question then the final question. Can we have the final clubbing question make it make it a banger. DJ last tune yeah, yeah? Lights up after this one. Hi, Makita and mystery guest. I'm Ali from Hastings. Love the show. Always, always have you in my ear when I'm walking up and down the seafront of Hastings. My question about clubbing is this, do you think the gentrification of areas like King's Cross, you know, where you used to have Bagley's and the cross and all those iconic clubs now being kind of gentrified to the point of no recognition

has destroyed the heart and soul of London clubland or is it still kind of there underground somewhere that I just don't know about? Love to hear your thoughts, thanks. Couldn't have put it better myself. What did you say? Destroyed the heart and soul of London's clubland. Correct. I just say heart and soul of London. Yeah. Full stop.

Oh, yes. Yes. Clubs underneath the umbrella. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Good. We get to talk about gentrification a bit, Zoe. And East and West, we really know about this. Exactly. I witnessed the 1997 East London, the Great West London gentrification cull of Notting Hill and surrounding areas and then moved to Hackney and watched it happen there. I was like, no way. I feel like I need to get away from this. Oh, maybe it's me. Maybe I'm leading it. No, I can't think of anything more upsetting than

clubs being ruined by gentrification as well as so many other things. How do you feel about the way it's affected, the way people go out? I think it's just, it has just killed the vibe, a bit like one of the last questions, the camera phones killed it, gentrification killed it. the camera phones killed it, judgeifications killed it. What do we mean when we say killed it? What I mean is the feeling of rebellion, the feeling of like real proper togetherness, now it feels like a very curated,

individualized kind of experience. I don't feel that same community energy. Like, you know, Weak Become Heroes on Original Pirate Material, the Street's first album, right? The sound of that song for me is the sound of carving. Because it's such a time that has been lost, that song's almost really quite haunting now. It's actually really a bit upsetting because it's like that feeling of losing yourself in something. Yeah. And such a tune. I wish we could play music on this, me. But it is

such a tune. Anyone who has the ability to listen to that song after they listen to us, please do. And thank you for reminding me that fucking tune. It's that communal, it's that communal, this is all love, this is all free. And now it just, it doesn't. I mean, literally, and the stars align. And that's what they say. And there's still, and that fucking sample, I don't know who that sample is, but beautiful. It's beautiful, I forgot who it is,

I do know it is, I forgot. It's that, so I think gentrification has messed with that. And like back in the day when you went clubbing, if a club was like really rough around the edges, it was rough around the edges. It wasn't someone who'd come in and made it look rough. For an aesthetic. Because actually it's very expensive. And that is thereby hangs the tale of gentrification. It's people going like, oh, you know, it's a brick wall. We don't even have time to replaster. That will be 17.99 for

that latte. And you're like, but what about the threadbare sofa? Is that not? Oh, okay. You're fucking with me. But also there's that feeling of that feeling of space is so important. And I think you're talking about King's Cross where Bagley's was. Me and Zoe also remember egg. I did the door on egg. You did not stop. Let everyone in. And, you know, that is all now a very it's a very corporate space.

You've got a lot of restaurants and shops. It's like a posh shopping district now around that bit of King's Cross. But it feels like there are no empty warehouses that people would turn into a club because there's four modern blocks built on said land. So that's what I find really hard about gentrification, just this feeling that there's no space of ours anymore and that it's all been bought up

because that can really affect your mind. And just as I banged on about with LTA, I won't go into it. I'm sure the world and my team are sick of hearing me talking about. But with, sorry, LTM with low traffic, neighbourhooding is because people come into areas and then they go, actually, I don't like the noise. You cannot come into an area that has this history of commune and people coming to it to club and rave and be together and say too loud for what my needs are. So I want it gone. And then I think that's that individualistic living that you were talking about, which has also stripped away our communities. And that I blame Instagram for because it's such single living for one.

Yeah. And I deep dived on you and Lily having a chat the other day about The Globe. Oh my God. In West London. We should explain what The Globe is. The Globe is a club that's been there since the 60s in West London. It was at the end of the road that I grew up on and it's where my mother met my stepfather. That's where they met. And it's the first place my mom was paid to cook food.

Wow. Yeah, we have deep roots. A lot of those places have been destroyed through gentrification or brought up and transformed into knitwear shops. I mean, knitting shops. Really? Is haberdashery really that much of a thing? It really is. It definitely is in Clapton. There's like three on Chatsworth Road now. Really? Can we just... We stop having haberdasheries. Can we just, yeah, okay. Can we stop going out with dashes? Do we need that more than a pharmacy? Okay, whatever.

But it's, it's that, it's that thing of like this relic, the building feels so right. It's so, you can feel the history in the walls. Yeah. But it's just the, now the people within. The vibes. Are not, they're not matching. Yeah, yeah. And then also it's just that thing of everyone taking pictures, like everyone, the obsessiveness of people out

with their camera phones does just make you feel like there isn't, yeah, again, there just isn't the energy that makes you want to get free. Yes, it makes you want to be free. So throw the breast pads in the air and say, to hell with it. That's the criteria I need now. That's what Zowie's looking for.

Sorry to end on a vibe kill, but you did ask us about gentrification and it will happen. As Zowie asked, spending these last two weeks with you has been totally glorious. Oh, I've loved it. I like our new plans. We've got clubbing in Paris and Brazil. And what was the other thing we're going to do? Shopping. We have something else. What are we going to try on brides dresses? We're going to try

wedding dresses and then we're going to go to the Ragged Rave down in West London for over 40s. We've got some plans. Very much. Maybe I'll bring my Moses basket and just carry on Andy Oliver's legacy. Let this cycle continue. Absolutely. Let the rave never die. God, yeah, you're gonna have kids that like wanna rave. God, I hope there's somewhere for them to go. I hope things come back by the time your kids are ready. I'm very much hoping for a Safi energy in my children.

Oh, really? Like me going, come to the rave and then like, I've got science coursework. And like, yeah, that energy and my children. Like me going, come to the rain. I'm like, I've got science coursework. And like, yeah, that would be my dream. I don't want to be up at night wondering if they're repeating our mistakes. You want squares, you want squares for your children. Yes, please.

And that's how we'll end this. Thank you so much Zoe Ashton. We will be, I will be back with Lil. She'll be back from the stage. I'm so proud of her. She's going to be doing Miss Me at Tedder Garber. I mean, like, can you even? But what a woman. What a woman. What a woman, honestly. And I hope it goes really, really well because that is so, that play is so hard. You're going to have to go gentle with her when she's back. I feel like I might have to cradle her these next few weeks.

I can do that. Yeah. And I have to do that. And then if not, we'll drag you back in a bag. Don't have that baby. Soon we might need you. I'm so free. It's like, I can't even play it cool. I can't even pretend to be busy.

No, and you've got to escape us because I know you don't move that quickly at the moment. So this is quite good. It's like we've stationed you nice and really pregnant in case. Yeah, in case you miss me. But I love you. Thank you so much. The theme, the theme for next week's Listen, Bitch, in terms of cradling our beautiful Lily Allen as she comes around. I mean, you never know.

She might come back really face and, you know, roar. Who knows with her? But we're going to have a nice, gentle, lovely topic that I hope will really inform everyone's summer. The theme for next week's Listen Bitch is books. Oh. Nice and simple, but could be very deep and important as well.

It will be deep and important. I feel like I should have been on that one. I know, but no. And she should have been on the cabin one. But that's the good thing about Miss Me because actually you were brilliant and it was really interesting to talk about clothes with someone I haven't got a raving past with. There you go. So actually the right thing happened and it always does. We love the contradictions. That is where the juice is. Thank you very much, Ari Ashton. Love you. I will see you soon in real life, real life.

Love you. Keep being you. Mwah. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makeda Oliver. This is a Persephoneca production for BBC Sounds. In 2002, UK Indie was sweeping the nation. A really vibrant British music scene. But just six years later, the genre was branded landfill indie.

The rise and fall of indie sleaze. This is the story of this millennium's most influential bands. The lyrics felt like they were speaking to me. It was really exciting. Exploring the music, the fun, the tabloid frenzy, the destructive behaviour. There was a fanaticism to the music, the fun, the tabloid frenzy, the destructive behaviour. There was a fanaticism to the people who come to the gigs. Ride the highs and lows of the naughtiest UK guitar music.

With me, Kate Nash. It has really gone a bit silly, hasn't it? The rise and fall of Indie Sleeves. Search Indie Sleeves on BBC Sounds.