Miss Me? - Celebrity Culture From Both Sides

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens talk about celebrity fandoms, and whether it’s normal to idolise certain people. Miquita discusses her night out with Lily Allen seeing The Oresteia, while Jordan talks about Christoper Nolan’s The Odyssey. They also go into which singers and bands they obsessed over as teenagers, and whether there’s anyone they’d wait outside in the cold for hours to see. Follow the show on instagram and TikTok @missme.4evaGet cultural recommendations from the weekly Miss Me? Library at patreon.com/missmeProducer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Video Editor: Danny PapeProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Ellie Clifford & Dino SofosMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

All right, welcome everybody to Miss Me, your weekly... How do you feel about being welcomed to Miss Me? How do you feel about being in Miss Me today? How do I feel about doing Miss Me? Yeah, like, you're also welcomed to Miss Me. Welcome to you too. Okay, I'm my welcoming myself. Yeah.

I thought I was promoted. If I not been promoted again? Is this equity or what? You welcome yourself. Okay, welcome to... Welcome to Miss Me, Jordan and Makita. Genuinely. I do want to take this moment to say

to the Miss me listeners that have hit me up like you guys are amazing like I just want to be real like honestly I've had some profound messages from people who listen to this podcast. Really, have you really had that? Yeah, genuinely.

Wow, that is community right? Like if you take community away from the digital realm, community was that, like you hold each other up. No, it's nuts. It's actually nuts and I've actually realized that I've not, Keith, you'll know this from my nonchalant approach perhaps to some of the briefing meetings. Like I really do just kind of swan into these things,

just talk without any real concept of like what happens after or before. I just enjoy conversation and I like talking to you. That's genuinely the reason. And I believe in conversation as part of the human experience. So sometimes when it's reflected back to me, I don't know how to process it. And that is really, it's really interesting to see. Yeah, sometimes you think it's just me and you chatting,

don't you? Yeah, all the time. Yeah, it's a book on. Yeah, all the time. You're like, how do you know about that? Yeah, literally. But I also have this thing where I, especially if it's deep, I kind of forget, I remember a lot of stuff,

but I also forget that I talk about it, if that makes sense. So a lot of people, even with my book, people will be like, oh, that section when you talk about this is amazing. And I should have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I can't remember having written that. And it sounds great. It might be the good way to do it. If you're putting out a lot of different types of work

and speaking about things, you know, a lot of twice a week, three times a week to in a big public space. It might be a good thing to not always be remembering what you said and analyzing it and worrying about it. It's like, it's out there. I think it moves on quite quick for me as well. Like the conversations develop and evolve and also go backwards very quickly.

And so, you know, for me, I'm just like every day. Something new is popping up. So yeah, anyway. Well, that works really well for this space. So thank God. How do you feel about Miss Me? Well, weirdly, I was with Lily last night. Shout out of girls.

And I'm totally fucking. I forgot I used to do miss me with her. Wild. Wild. Well, there's about 40% of listeners that haven't forgotten. No, I know. No, I know. But it really made me sit with like the journey of it.

We went to the theatre last night. And Lily's a theatre devouty. And it has been somewhat upped in her sobriety. She was the reason I last went to the theatre, I think. Probably. She just gave me some tickets. Yeah, she's very much. in and out, always at a play,

or about to go to a play, or getting tickets for a play. And I'm usually like, no, I'm too busy, no, I'm too busy. I like the theater. My history with the theater was mainly just like trying to sleep with actors. Me and Simon Lab Store. Sure, that's the way you did it before apps.

Four apps, she just got to the theater and try and wink, mid-performance. I was never very successful. A little bit, a little bit successful. But when's the performance stopped? What do you mean? What do you mean? Dating an actor?

How do you know? I've actually never dated an actor, just had lots of crushes on them. And scene. And scene. Sorry, carry on. You're an actor, by the way. I have acted. You have acted.

Okay, well that's important that I'm saying, I like the theatre. I don't love the theatre because I've been scarred by maybe plays that were too long and plays that I didn't understand. And I think if you feel like... Scard is so funny, sorry. Scard is crazy. Please give me an example of a play that scarred you. Oh, God. Eddie Redmayne was in it.

And he was great. He was great, but it was like some king. It was a king's story. It was at the Donmar. And it was just so fucking long. And I remember thinking, I'm not doing this to myself again. Even though he was great, I just remember thinking, I can't. It just tapped into all my kind of lack of knowledge around Greek mythology.

Now, yesterday was the Eresia, which is Greek mythology. And this is a modern telling. and it's, I asked not how to pronounce this, she's going to make me look like a dickhead, yeah? But this is what she says. Eeschylus, this is Eeschylus's verse. Five BC, I believe. Wow.

And yet all these themes of intergenerational trauma, a family sort of having ties with the war. BC? Yeah. And it really is really interesting. right, at the theatre. You wouldn't think she's a famous pop star. She's very chatty to strangers.

Not people that are recognising her, just like people. I was like, God, this really is your new sort of safe space, Lil. We sat down, then there was an American guy on the right of Lily. And he was on his own. And I thought, oh, I wonder who goes to the theatre on their own, especially to see a three and a half hour saga. Oh, loads of people. Was he in a suit?

Loads of people. No, he wasn't in a suit, but he looked like a travelling, a rich American. which he was and then he talked to him like throughout the intervals and before they started again after they started again and it was just i i haven't seen her like that in a really long time she felt very like at ease and soft but the play was intense three and a half hours is a lot of theatre children i know yeah yours was like an hour and a half mine was an hour 55 minutes oh that is quite long yeah so archie madequay's in this man like and he's like he's like he's like he's He's brilliant.

Mary Louise Parker is phenomenal. I mean, everyone in it is extraordinary. And I guess the three and a half. Everyone in it is extraordinary, beautiful. Like triumphant. And yet, why did it not end an hour's earlier? Like, that's just a question on all of us. I was just like, if we're going to do a modern retelling,

I bet we could have wrapped this up in Act 2. But no, it needed that Act 3. And people were like this. I mean, whatever people say about the theatre, it's not true. People were transfixed in a way I don't see them. Really? People were in it.

It's interesting. It's interesting because you do get films that long, obviously, Odyssey, et cetera. I mean, end game, which was obviously the crescendo of 23 films over the spanning 20 years, but anyway. But tell me about Odyssey, because that's three hours. What about it? Well, how was it?

Did you enjoy it? Were you on that, did you enjoy the adventure? Have you, you saw it, no. No, I just heard terrible things. Oh. Oh, that was it. You had terrible things. Yeah, it was good.

I liked it. It was like, it was like a, you know, it was like a theme park ride. You know, it's Nolan, Christopher Nolan, it was, it's not like an exceptional Christopher Nolan film in, in how, in its like ingenuity or psychology. You know, Nolan's always on the edge of some kind of like scientific theory, which isn't quite thought out, but it's fun enough to watch, you know. And he, and he always plays with time and he plays with structure. And there's a lot to enjoy in that, like Tenet, for example.

I don't know what the hell happened the first time I watched that, but by the third time, I was like, I mean, at the very least, this is mind-bogglingly fascinating. And then his first form of Memento of Guy Ritchie's fascinating about a guy who has memory lost, like, just the way he plays with time. Oh, is that Nolan? Yeah, that's Nolan. I don't know if it was his first film. Not Guy Ritchie, Guy Pearce.

Sorry, Guy Pearce, yeah. But honestly, it was fun. I thought it was cool to see Matt Damon. It was almost like seeing a legendary Pokemon or something. Like, I don't think he acts anymore. And then I thought Tom Holland was brilliant. Wow. Tom Holland was brilliant.

I thought Tom Holland was brilliant, genuinely. And then the other bits, listen, listen, there's some critique about Nolan's use of of female characters, which, again, if I do think backwards, that is kind of funny. But, yeah, sure, people upset because Helena Troy was Lupita Nongo, who's gorgeous. I mean, people can just get into. Whoa. Interesting move. I didn't know he did that.

And also, like, it's so funny, the idea that people think, I saw Josh, is it Josh Jackson or some of the American comedian? Did it really funny skit about, like, white people not believing that black people were invented. Yes. He said, like, they were like, he said that white audiences were going, what? But, but, but, but black people weren't invented yet. Wow. Wow.

And then he goes and makes Helen of Troy, the face that launched a thousand chips, a dark black woman. Yeah. I'm into that. Go on, Christopher Nolan. Anyway, it was good. I thought, uh, I thought, uh, I thought Elliot Page was actually a bit of a scenes dealer, which I you know obviously as everybody knows I'm a woke feminist simp so like I probably I'm gonna think that but it was I genuinely feel like I I've genuinely from a very balanced neutral position I thought Elliot was brilliant genuinely he was wicked and it was it was long but can I just say I would rather I think with long films I'd rather watch them if they're a bit silly than if they're like I haven't yet seen like I didn't watch the Irishman I know Scorsese does all these long films I think Scorsese is brilliant but I prefer it takes a lot you know I mean I take breaks to be fair with all Oppenheimer, which is also long, I actually slept in the middle, and I thought it was brilliant, because I waited until it was out.

See, I'd find sitting through something that's meant to be funny for three and a half hours much harder than something like the Eresia where Act 2 and 3 is just murder. Meant to be funny. Wait, what's meant to be funny? Like he was like something that was like, a comedy. I'd find that harder for that amount of time. I think if I'm going to sit through something for three hours plus, a character investment and I guess like... Oh, that's a challenge, isn't it? How'd you make a three hour comedy? That's fun. Has it ever happened? I'm looking to something. up right now. Because there weren't so many limitations on immediate gratification when it comes to like what is funny. It's not like a laugh a minute, but it's like funny throughout, enjoyable throughout.

I don't need to laugh every like five minutes. Yeah, mad, mad, mad, mad, mad, mad world was three and a half hours. Wow. Well, there you go. Some like it hot. But it was interesting because you're saying that you would like something a bit kind of, maybe more frivolous? I don't know, man.

I just feel like now, now, with like the massive explosion of TV shows, like, I feel like you're getting caught in like some kind of limbo. If you're trying to make a three-hour film, it's like you literally might as well make a short series, you know? Like an epic film.

I am into it. Like I say, I did like up and I'm, but I didn't watch it in one go. It's hard. Maybe I'm undecided, but I think there's an art to telling an incredible story in two hours or under.

Like there's a beautiful art to be like, oh my God, I'm completely encapsulated. If you're going to go deep character investment, I feel like you've got to stretch it out, go further. Like go split it into a couple films, I don't know. Well, I guess this play last night, there is deep character investment, and which is why it is painful

to watch what happens to everyone. Okay. But what I realized, like to say, what I realized with Lil, I think, you know, in sobriety, I think she, you know, she likes the theatre like we used to like the, up and I think that it might be kind of a place where she feeds her mind, body and soul or

like has excitement or thrill, maybe. I think maybe, and it was nice to see her be a bit thrilled. Is that new? Is that new for, oh no, it's returning. Is it returning or is it new? No, it's something that's been cultivated over her years of sobriety. So what's your, what's that place for you? Sport. Yeah, that's cool. So if you, if you're at tennis, you're chatting to everyone. Oh, God. Yeah, I love the culture of it all. Because where I play, like it's, as I've said to people, like, look around your city, there are tennis courts everywhere. Yesterday I went to playing in the morning with Sullivan and, like, it was like the 60-plus Jewish guys.

And they're like so fun and sweet. Fair. Look around your city, there are tennis courts everywhere. There absolutely are. Which cities, specifically? Well, I only know London. But I'm sure they're in other cities. Do you mean look around the boroughs of your city?

You are right, you are right. I mean, like, they're not as prevalent, I think, in some other cities as they might be in London. And then, well, and then talk about enjoying the city. On Friday, I was with Josh, because Tiffany Calvert, who is a broadcaster and DJ, just an all-round brilliant human being, she was doing a party. Tate, Lates, exactly, late Tate. And it was to celebrate the exhibition of Frida Carlo, making of an icon. And I was like, yeah, you have me at fucking Tate Lates,

because we were going to do it in the top, top floor. which is the old viewing gallery that they haven't opened for a few years. And the view was just, oh my God, what a special place to be. Really? Friday night in London. Poh. Fuck. They gave me in Tiff R green room and it was like the old restaurant.

So it was just like this huge panoramic, lofty lateral apartment. Dreamy. That had like a panoramic view of London. And it was really nice to be with Josh. Have you, so have you worked of tape before? No, not really. Can I say, Keats? I think you're kind of in your bag right now.

I think you are. I actually feel like it you are. I think it's important to kind of acknowledge. What do you mean in my bag? As much as I do, like, I can't explain to you, as much as I love ridiculing you for your obsession with like British culture, like, no, no, like, obviously we all like British culture,

but I just, just this incessant kind of like desire to be, as much as I revel in taking it apart. I just feel like between this podcast, ropes, you know, you shocking yourself with Elizabeth Day and now, you know, turning up at these little spots that you actually love, regardless of whether or not I want to ridicule you for it. You are at Wimbledon, you are at Tate,

you are at these spots. Like, this is cool. This is really fucking cool. Like this is, this is like, and I think that you're actually, I feel like you're actually showcasing yourself and in the sense that, again, love ridiculing you about loving the Chelsea Flower Show. however, you do know a lot about Chelsea Flower Show, can't knock you.

I do know a lot about gardening. You know a garden. You want to dig up. You want to take the relic you find to a museum. You want to do a talk about it at the museum. And then you want to go party with a DJ on the roof. Like, what the fuck? Right.

No, it does feel like dreams, all dreams coming true land. It's great. Like getting to just do all the things I ever wanted to do. That's great. It's a noticing. No, it is. But I hear it too. I hear it from people.

Like you feel the energy. It's really weird. I mean, it definitely fluctuates. But not with you specifically. I mean, with everyone, with life, you know, but I think it's nice to acknowledge, not identify with it. Vibrations, but yeah, it's nice to acknowledge that it's like,

yeah, and you should, I've had a lot of people say how impressed they were obviously with that interview you did, and it's just like, cool, it's really cool. Okay. Yeah, lean into that shit. Yeah, anyway, back to ridiculing you. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

I'd like to have a break. I think that's a really nice way to end in the first part. Because I would like to just take that in. Yeah, sit in it. Dawn and I love you. That really means a lot to me. Thank you. I'm going to bask in that for the next five minutes.

Actually, our breaks are like 30 seconds. Not even that. I'll be back in five seconds. Okay, everyone, welcome back. Makita is actually just massaging herself. I'm not joking. Mokit is standing in front of a mirror. Faving in confidence.

What is also interesting about your journey, Makita, is that you, are now in a space where you're, I guess, come into terms of the idea that people are fans of you. Like, they've always been, you've got people who are fans, like, obviously, even back in the day, because you're part of, like, a massive cultural thing and things that people look back on nostalgically. But now it's like a different thing in it, like, we're old, like, it's, there's way more intimacy, like, in terms of people's access to you. It's as of this. There's been a journey, which is, I think, actually very important.

Both you and I blew up overnight, and that's not fun. Like it's good to like have a bit of like, you know, if I was plopped on top of a mountain, I perhaps wouldn't feel as if I had like really put any hours, even though I did and you did. But you know what I'm trying to say, figuratively. But these ages as well, 42 and 34 respectively, I think are those ages where it all starts to come full circle a bit. Yes. But for me, because I know you're talking about theatre and when we spoke about theatre

before, obviously Lily did a lot of theatre. Lily has a kind of real attention on her, you know, when she, you know, when she's, you're talking about theatre. when she was leaving like her jobs at theatre. And also I think like that the idea that you, I mean when we spoke about this before, you've also said that you were a fan of things when you were younger. Whereas for me, I remember being a,

I was a teenager who was then had fans and that was something that really confused me because I was raised to not be a fan of any one. Anything. Oh no, no, I didn't idolize. I was encouraged not to idolize anyone. But that's, very Emma and I really understand that Emma being your mum. That is very Emma. She's not

overly impressed by nothing if that makes sense. No, she's very critical. Critical would be what is she instead? Criticical, but she has high standards which is fair. Right, right. And actually weirdly, I was listening to Grimmie this morning and I actually had the loveliest day with Grimmie on Sunday. We went flower market. I mean again, growth in that man. Crazy. Yes, actually. And he was playing Nirvana right he was playing about a girl the unplugged version from my MTV unplugged Nirvana album and I was like I was like I'm gonna have a shower and listen to Nirvana all morning and I know every every every not even every word every bass moment every bass line every drum hit from Dave Groll like

Chris Christopherson Chris Christopherson Chris what was his fucking name Nova Selik god anyway it really I was like that's weird because we are talking about this part of me or miss me today, which is, I guess it's embarrassing to say, like I was a huge fan. I think I'm more ADHD, obsessive and tunnel visioned. So when I liked Nirvana, I, Navana was life. And then I moved a bit to Pearl Jammon Smashing Pumpkins. They were like. Yeah, but that's not, but that's fine. That's fine. I don't, obsession I think I can relate to. It's idolize it. It's the idolizing. No, I don't think I idolized them. I just, I just was obsessed. Okay. So, so, so when we were speaking about, about,

Lily before this pod, the whole thing was, you know, she transformed what some people might consider to be uncomfortable stage door vibes, right, after performing in whatever, three, she did loads of shows, didn't she? She transformed them into moments, right? Yeah, Sienna Miller did it when she did as you like it in, like, 2004 and every stage door, every time she left the stage door, she was in a different look. And I remember it being a real thing, and me and Lily being very aware of that. And then when Lily did Pillow Man, she came out in a track suit, saw loads of paparazzi, and were like, well if they're gonna be here every night, I'm gonna hire, hire Kyle and make a moment of it.

And I thought it was very good strategy. Yeah, great. And I feel, so my thing is, like going to see someone you adore, great, going to their show, amazing, like even dressing like them. Like I remember I was obsessed with Cisco and I was a kid and I literally like tried to dye my hair silver, but I had a big aphro, so it was gray, just was gray.

Cisco, yeah? Cisco. I had absolutely no idea what it's going on about. Obviously I knew he liked thonged. I didn't know. Sure. He wanted to unleash the dragon. So did I.

I love dragons. I don't think he had much more to say. It was just sort of thongs and dragons. Yeah, yeah. He was my first, his first time I heard someone use the N-word so prolifically. And I thought he was saying knickers for a long time. Okay.

But I knew all the words. I tried to like, I did, I performed as Cisco in a Brent local after school club talent competition where I got runner up. But what my point is, If Cisco is performing, I wouldn't wait for five, six hours after the show to see him. That's where it turns into something else for me that I don't understand.

Yes, I probably would have waited for Taylor Hanson. But that was fancy. And I don't think you fancied Cisco. So lust wasn't part of it either. I think lust is what takes you to the backstage door. Yeah, I mean, those girls are screaming. I hear you. The girls seem like the most obvious and probably.

makeup the most of it, but it isn't exclusively just girls, I don't think. No, but it's a feral thing. Like if you watch an old, like my nephew Roland, Phoebe's son, is obsessed with Beatles documentaries, which is great for me. So I watch a lot with him. And it is interesting to study it in its first. Well, it's actually not its first because in the history that the team did, very, by the way, loved the celebrity icon history today this week.

They were talking about the first rock star, which is like 1850, Franz, something. And women were like, by, you know, by, you know. his piano strings and shit and going mad for him. It's a feral reaction what you see in Beatlemania. Yeah, I remember seeing a documentary ages ago about paparazzi. It was like the guy from entourage or something was, I can't remember what it was, but they found some study that there is like, you know, that they did a study on chimps or something where they like,

if they showed a chimp that had like a higher status to a, to a pack of chimps, they would like react. So like there's something to do with, They were trying to pitch the idea that within animals, there is like a kind of like deep rooted idea of status that is obviously then compounded by the systems that we have created around it, if that makes sense. Yeah, but definitely, because I used to get this in junkets.

Junkets are when you're, or Nat knows, junkets are when you interview actors in a hotel and you interview a series of them in different rooms about one film that they're promoting. And you are literally treated like cattle. The idea is very much. I did it. You and them.

I did one. What do you mean? Which side? I did a fucking junket for mind. It was absolutely surreal. I did their interviews. Like literally this year. So you were the star that people came into the room to talk to.

No. No. I was the journalist. Oh. Oh, you were the journalist. Yeah, it was so trippy. It was so trippy. I was like, right, I'm getting like.

Who were you interviewing? I interviewed Killea Murphy, then Max Porter, who wrote it. And then Jay, um, Zimbi and it was surreal, yeah. And I literally had like seven minutes and I got kicked out. Yeah. It was wild. So you go into the, yeah,

but I did, I did get in, I did get a lot of props because apparently I got, apparently I impressed Killian Murphy, which is one of the hardest things to do. See, this is never, but now you're just in it. This is what I mean.

Stockham syndrome. Well, like I'd leave a room and they'd be like, Jake Gyllenho loved you. He'd never get some of the people like that. I'd be like, I impress the gods. You know what I mean though?

Okay, so they've like, they've just, they just told me some shit. No, I'm sure Julian Murphy loved you. It's not about what happened. I don't know. I was actually in, I was bordering on disassociating. Fortunately, Max Porter recognized me, which is insane because he's like an incredible author. Now we're friends, but I didn't, I was not expecting that. I love that.

I was bordering on disassociating. Yeah, I was still there. I was still aware enough to ask an interesting question, but I was like, what is happening? What is happening? And is that because of the setup? Because I'm saying, what happens in the chair between you and Jake Gyrenahall? That's up to you, right? But the setup is these are the gods.

And you are the slaves. And you have four minutes. And don't you fucking dare go over that? Because these people are higher than you in the world. It's comical how it's set up. It's like the Roman Empire in a fucking press junket. Yeah, I don't get it. So I had a lot of trouble with that when I was, you know,

especially when I was 19 and we'd do our first tour. And we'd finish the show and we're drinking beer and we're being gut and we had our mates with us and we're just being fucking idiots and we're talking about where we're going out that night and then we go out to the bus half cut and you got this like

14 year old girl and her dad or like her mom in the freezing cold in like Norwich and I'm just like what are you doing? I remember just being like what because I couldn't get my head around No I understand listen I do get

I'm not trying to dismiss the concept of it like I can imagine there's a lot of fan there's a lot of enjoyment in kind of like giving yourself up to this thing for a brief period of time but I mean me, I couldn't like this is what I remember saying this

on something, I can't remember what I said. It was pop star. We've been a pop star, I found it difficult because I realized that being a pop star was like another job that I wasn't good at. So like I knew people, oh, we said it when we spoke about Sinatra, yeah. So it's like that whole thing of like there were pop stars who, whose job was just to be good with fans, basically. And then they perform the songs that they haven't necessarily written, but they're amazing at it.

They're actually really good at it. Whereas I was really confused by, I could do this writing and the performing, but the actual thing of like, wow, I think you're so amazing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna like risk hypothermia. Like, that's like, what? Like, just go home, like, you're the same. Like, I really believe there's, that we are on an equal playing field.

Like, they are also possible of creating something amazing and we can meet on that part. So if equality is there, then maybe it's a thank you within equality. Yeah, yeah, maybe, yeah. It's also my own issues, man, listen, is my own issues in terms of like receiving love, 100%. Like one, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no, no two ways about it. Like my, my, my, I had, I had, I'm getting used to it now because it's deeper

with my book and stuff like, like, I can kind of get my head around it more. But it was very, it's a very odd concept to me that people would be like, and also like not necessarily full fans because I don't even know if my, if my entire self is on show. So I don't even know what part of me they're a fan of, you know what I mean? Welcome to show biz, babe. Yeah. Like, it's meant to be a head fuck. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's not meant to make sense. And I think, and you are, do you ever feel like you're anybody's? Anybody's what?

That idea of being like hung out to dry. Like, I just feel like the world of show business. You are kind of anyone's. Anyone to say thank you. Anyone to say, I love you. Anyone to tear you down. Anyone to attack you?

No, I don't agree with it at all. You don't think that's the kind of contract? No, I think celebrity culture is a real issue. I genuinely think it's a, I think I would really, I genuinely believe it's an issue. I think that I agree with the, I mean, maybe I'm sounding like a fucking idiot here. I don't know, but I feel like I agree with the basic premise that some people create things that a lot of people enjoy. And because of that, they, those people create connection and then, you know, that's exciting. And I look, I'm sure there is some grounds for hierarchy.

I mean, it really does get into quite a difficult conversation here because a lot of people I don't enjoy use this as like, proof of like ridiculous other societal concepts. But but yeah, look, people going, wow, that person's really gifted at doing that thing. Let's tell them that they're great at that. That I can get my head around. But then this idea that in that process, what's removed from them is their immediate humanity, right? So like one of the moments that I remember vividly in my head, I was playing V festival when I was about 21 and I just come out in my dressing room and these two girls walked over and then they were about half, about a meter from me. And they went, you take a picture with him first

and then I'll take one after. And then I was like, I'm literally here. Like, I'm literally, I'm literally stood here. And it happens to me quite a lot. People talk in third person as if I'm not there. And, you know, there's some people who may be thicker skin than me that just see it as part of parcel. But like, for me, it's so surreal.

I'm, you know, like I'm not an object. Like, listen, full clarity, there are some very fun moments to be objectified in life. And I'll allow that to sit. But one of those moments is not publicly with people I don't know, you know. I think there's a terrifying feeling in anything in life of no turning back. And I think that can feel heavy. There is no turning back.

I think people have an unrealistic expectation of like the things that can, that I think make a human being, they don't go with status or money, right? If anything, sometimes they're prevented from the, developing. So it's like that's why so many young people end up again, we're going over this again, but whatever. Like it's, I just think, yeah, I feel like the desire to love, the desire to have community, the desire to feel, touch, experience senses, engage and feel at peace. Like that doesn't shift or change. Your access to spaces changes. But ultimately for some people who are superstars, their worlds become tiny. And I don't

think everybody would actually want that, you know. I think I used to think that about Harry when he was friends with Grimmie. Like, It didn't look fun at all. I was like, this is too much. That's not living. I know we've discussed about how he's found a way to really regain his life. But at one point, I was like, fucking out.

Yeah, he's just gone straight into it. He just walked straight into it. Because that is ultimately how you do it. You know, there's people, conversations and connections I have with people that I, where I feel like if I can speak to them and then I learn more about their world and then the equity comes immediately.

It's not just an objective thing of like a picture or a whatever. It's like, let me know about your life because I remember, for example, amidst all of that crazy fandom when I was younger, there was this one fan we had called Beth, right? Shout out, Beth, if she used to listen to Miss Me, by the way. And the reason why she was fucking wicked, right,

is she started, like, our first blog, right? So it's called, like, All Things Vizzle kicks. I remember so vividly, it was a tumbler. And me and Harley used to go on there to find pictures of ourselves because she basically went and found pictures from, that everyone was taking, whatever, and posted it. And there's a little crew of girls that then became really close friends from being fans of ours.

still friends to this day, right? And but they're now adults and they're really cool and whatever. But Beth, I remember at the time, she was studying like special effects makeup. And I loved, I used to ask her like, please send us your work like when she was in uni because it was genuinely incredible. And I did not see any separation of this than the obvious like material, whatever malarkey, we attribute some kind of value to. I mean, there is real value. But I was like, that is, you know, I can't do that. As be clear, like her ability to do special. She's, Special effects makeup was genuinely impressive and baffling. And I didn't feel like she felt that we were this mountain to her.

She was like, I just like your music, I want to come see you, and this is what I do. And I'm like, yeah, that's fucking sick. Great. Thank you, Jay. I love you. I'll see you for, listen, bitch. It's drugs, part d. It's such a lengthy, layered subject. Yeah. Bye, honey. I love you. Bye, I love you.

Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persephonica show.