Miss Me? - Curiosity Killed the Cat?

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss surfing, curiosity and Met Gala ethic-ette.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Join me, Joanna Page, and my on-screen husband. That's me, Matthew Horn. For our brand-new podcast, Table for Four. Each week we'll be joined by celebrity duos for a chat and a slap-up meal. And we've got some amazing guests coming up, including Gary Barlow and Ollie Smith, Arlene Phillips and Bradley Richards. Matt Edmondson and Molly King, the town's ends.

We'll be chatting about food relations. trips and everything in between. So make sure you subscribe to table for four wherever you get your podcasts. The following episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Boom. You look really healthy and good. Yes, I'm tanned. You are tired. Yes, you're back and you're tanned. We've had quite a nice heat wave while you've been away. I mean, not heat wave, but I mean enough for me to sunbathe naked on my balcony. You've had a week of sun. Two weeks. And it looks great. Listen, you know, this is time for people like you. Then you start posting up your all stories.

Oh my God, London in the summer's so. Can't be London in the summer. And then you go to like London Fields and then have a picnic. How dare you basic me out like that? Go to London Field. Have a picnic and say nothing beats London in the summer. But did you go back surfing? Did you get back on the waves?

Did you ride the white horse? You say back like I went originally. Like what now I've learned. Who did? You went with McKenzie and had that lesson? Yes. but now I've been instructed. I can't really emphasise enough how reckless that initial.

Right. What we were trying to do on that beach in January is fucking mental. Like now knowing we've got the wrong board. It's actually like legitimately quite dangerous what we were trying to do. Did you have a teacher last time at all? I had had one lesson in Costa Rica and then was like, all right, I know, I'll do this. Grab the board in that beach.

In high season, by the way, when we were January, obviously high season, proceeded to barely catch one. I mean, I think I just stood up on one kind of white water bit, but we did all get dragged into a rocky kind of like reef. Oof, yeah, that is dangerous. And you could tell that people on the shore were like, maybe people should stop surfing now. Or like, do those dudes know anything about the water?

But I have an absolute fascination now, not only with surfing, but with the culture that it brings. I've been writing about it actually because I threw purely like putting out feelers on Instagram and stuff, I managed to, I was offered a space. Right. But the actual culture, surf culture in Sri Lanka is a whole other beast, man. These people are going, I remember I was at this table at the retreat.

So I was just meeting everybody. And one of the women running it had a couple of our mates. And they were like all working, like working in the day. And I came over and was like, I saw what are you guys doing later? Like are you, um, is there like a thing to go to, like a bar or I don't know, you know what I mean? Like just to socialize. And they were like, looked at me as if I was actually speaking.

other language. I was like, what's going? We go to bed at 10. We wake up at 5. We surf. Oh, dude. I love it. No, don't with the surf rules. Honestly, they looked at me like, what do you mean go out? Like, brough, sunrise, I'm on the waves. It's quite raster in a way. It's like they look after themselves. They have their rules. They have their routines. And it's about kind of that enjoyment of that thing that you're put on this planet to do, man, which is just fucking surf. And I was asking loads of people what they love about surfing. Like I was conducting some kind of invisible documentary.

But I was fascinated by it. And the core message is one, you can't have your phone. You're out in the water, truly present. And you can't fucking document it. You could probably get someone to film you on your mate if you wanted to. Sure. No, no, people are filming it from the, you have to do surf analysis. Oh, oh.

It's not stories. People film themselves to get better. Yeah, yeah. Right. But I know what you're saying. and they don't necessarily, like, it's not like a, spend a day with me surfing. No, it's kind of an individual pursuit without attention.

And the thing that I find most fascinating about it, which kind of sets it apart from other hobbies, maybe, or sports, is that it's nature-dependent, like truly nature-dependent. So other things we've tried to dominate nature, you know what I mean? Like, we've got build football stadiums because we can cut out the wind, or in Wimbledon we can cover the court. Or, you know, like, there are all these other, other elements of it that we can, you know, maybe the equipment can alter to deal with like

slippy ground or I don't know what it would be. Right. But with surfing, it's like there's no wind machine. There's no tide machine. There's no, not out in the actual ocean. So people are looking at these, these apps and being like, yo, we have this two hour window to catch the best waves. Yeah, yeah, you've got to work with the world.

You have to work with the ocean. And you have to respect it. It's all getting quite point break. I've not actually seen point break. Neither of I name it on me. She's sort of, by mistake, recently, and it's bloody brilliant. Well, now I want to watch more than ever. Now I understand a culture.

Yeah, man. Surfing and heists. Sounds great. Hadrick Swazey and Keanu Reeves, actually, why haven't we seen this film? I forgot what I was saying. Well, I guess you're talking about respecting the water, man, the ocean. Oh, no, no, that's not. I'm not meaning that in like a pseudo, like a woo-woo way, like quite literally.

Like, I remember after two lessons or one lesson, I had one night where I barely slept, and I heard everyone on the retreat get up and I was like, you know what, these guys are up, fuck it. I got my scooter, let me just bow down to Welligama where everyone goes. I just rent the board, same board, softboard, not a hard one like I did in January, like a mentalist. It was a soft board for beginners.

Like I know the difference, but yeah. Well, people who know surfing will know what I mean. Like the long, basically you start off of like the longest softest board because it's the easiest to catch the waves. However, and this is one thing, if you have a long soft board, you can't go through an incoming wave. So you have to learn to time either a roll underneath the wave

or you have to paddle into it so you can go over the wave. But you can't go through the wave. You need a shortboard. God. My point is I went in uninstructed into the waves with three hours sleep at seven in the morning and I got fucking battered. Of course. The waves were two or three times bigger than the day before

because obviously it just decided that day to be like, fuck you. The time between the waves was like 20 seconds. So I couldn't physically paddle up fast enough to, get through these. So I was honestly getting just wiped out, wiped out for about 40 minutes. It almost felt like kind of initiation. Like I deserved it for my sins. Oh, Jesus Christ. Jay. Well, I guess there is something about letting yourself be whipped the fuck about by the ocean. This is the whole mummy water or mama water. Like the kind of, there's like a lot of like ancient cultures, indigenous peoples who are like, listen,

the sea is fucking legit. Like, you know, there's like the stuff about art. Black people don't swim so much because of, I don't know, like PTSD or some people say like bones are dense, all this shit. And then like, I go to Costa Rica and there's just like loads black people surfing. They're like, I have no idea what you're talking about. But then the other thing is also that some people are like, yo, the ocean is fucking hardcore. Like it's not even that we can't swim. It's like that you have to be fucking respectful. But this is interesting.

It is really fun. Catching a wave. The feeling of catching a wave is the real vibe. And you said to me that's the white horse, right? So the white horse is the way you start. So that's what we were doing in January. So you can just ride the white horse wave, the little white water waves. That's for beginners.

Once you go past that, you're looking to get onto the green wave, which is the point of which before the wave breaks. And with a green wave, you can angle the board and surf the direction in which the wave is breaking, which is where you see, like, in our minds, before we knew about surfing, whatever, you see those images of, like, people surfing across a wave. That's what it is, is they're chasing where the war is breaking. And then once it breaks, you can straighten up. You've got to be so reactive and instinctive.

You have to have your timing. You have to look at tiny little changes in the waves. Yeah. That was the last thing I was trying to learn was knowing when to start paddling, when a wave is coming, when to stand up on my own. Yeah. It's hard, but it's really thrilling and it's addictive. Okay. The good news is you found your hobby.

Wow. Which we've all been waiting for, particularly me. This is it. You found your hobby. Well, yeah, but I can't do it now. Yes, you can. If you say Cornwall in the next two sentences, I swear I'm going to cry. I was going to say Cornwall.

A fucking hell, man. No, but Jordan, I was going to say the bad news is you found your hobby and believe you me, look at me, hobbies change your life. But it is all the way over there, as it were. But if you do get into it here, you could just be someone that goes down to like Devon and Cornwall and I guess I love white. It's not quite as glamorous. It's not quite as beautiful.

But I personally do think those places are just as beautiful as. Listen, I've seen pictures of Cornwall, beautiful place, you know. Have you been? Yeah. I have been when I was a lot younger. Okay. I would like the other parts of the surf culture in the tropics, which is not having to wear a whole wetsuit, ideally,

and also having the freedom to just hop on a scooter and dry off on the way home. Like, I just don't see the added practicalities. If you can add miss me to that schedule, dude, then nothing's stopping you. Oh, I'm aware. Okay. All right, we could do message from the tropics, I guess.

You know what? I went to a wedding in Dorset in Bridport. My auntie Leslie has moved there in the last few years, so I've just heard about Bridport a lot. And it's fucking beautiful part of the country down in the south. Yeah. Would you ever get like a van and just drive around UK? My dad does that.

I remember I did that in the highlands with my dad and my brother. My dad's very, like, he loves his camper van. Yeah. I stayed in a hotel, so I guess, My answer to that is no. Nice, nice, a little bit of bouge. But I like a boogey hotel around the country. So anyway, but it was really interesting

because it was my English, my favourite English teacher's daughter's wedding. So we had a teacher in Holland Park. I just feel so bathed in Holland Park from this weekend. And Holland Park is a very famous, sort of socialist, London Comp, that opened in the 60s. And Mr. Whitwam, my English teacher, taught there from like early 7th.

to like late 90s. Everyone had Mr. Whitwam. And Phoebe's mom's in a punk band called The Slits, as you know. And they played in the 70s when Mr. Whitwam taught there. And then he taught us English. I didn't know that. That's wild. Yeah, man.

Tessa bassist in the Slits. The Slits is the one there is... The Slits is the first female punk band of all time. Tessa, Ari and Viv Albertine. No, I actually do know this. I remember them specifically being referenced recently as being like forerunners in the kind of female rock space, punk space, sorry.

Anyway, so just to give you the breath. Also, sorry, side note, I got followed by Skunk-Kanasi the other day. Wait, skin. Sorry, not Scott, sorry, skin, sorry. That is fucking cool. I got followed by skin who is the goat. Yeah, that is fucking cool. She, at a time, again, in the 90s,

where the idea of what is a star, a rocker, or whatever, was defined by, I would say, you know, a very, like, white presence. It was, you know, the idea of, like, guitar music, like, that rocking out grunge was always considered to be, I don't know, for some reason. A white thing. And a white thing. And skin, and skins, like, not only is she black, unapologetically black, gorgeous black woman. Yeah.

She's bald. Yeah, man. She's like, because she was like, fuck that. And she could sing. She could sing it, like, what was it that lyric? Weak as I am. No tears for you. Weak as I am.

Oh, no tears for you. My mum used to play that in a car. And she was like, weak as that? I mean, what a fucking hook as well. Yeah. And also, great performer and also just as a personal thing. But she's also like a fucking Londoner. Yeah, yeah.

People like skin, Skolkan Anzhi would exist because of bands like The Slits as well. The Sits are deeply influential. Anyway, they played at Holland Park. Mr. Whitwam taught Ari from the Slits and taught me and Phoebe, just to show you how long he worked there. His daughter, Alice, went out with our friend Jesse, so then we became really close with the Whitwams.

And his eldest daughter, Anna, got married in Dorset. He did this speech. Now, it's not just because I was name-checked in it, yeah? Because me and Phoebe were name-checked in it, which I wasn't expecting. But he is such a wordsmith, Mr. Whitwam. And he was sort of talking about Labrock Grove. And at the time that I grew up there, and Jordan, I just felt so transported, so physically back.

into a time of who I was. Before all this shit, like just this kid me because he was talking about the way I was in class. And he was just like so playful with his words, so loving. It was like a love letter to Holland Park and Labbert Grove. And I suddenly realized that it was actually him as like one of the original people

that helped me figure out what being a broadcaster was. Like the way he plays with words, the way he uses language, the way he tells a story. I was like, it's you. It's you. I always knew he was a fantastic man. And we had a really great time, particularly with the ancient mariner.

But I just suddenly, it hit me. It was like, oh shit, I love you. And you're a huge part of my life. I was wondering if you had a teacher like that. Me? Yeah. Like one of those ones that fucking changed your life and stays with you forever. Yeah, I've got loads of teachers that have stayed with me.

My favorite teacher actually when I was at school died. like while we were at school. Oh my goodness. And it was surreal because we all had to get told. How did they die? He was just training for the Brighton Marathon and something just like a random heart complication. It was completely unexpected.

He was actually really healthy. That was what was quite trippy. Another one of my teachers died in Brit school, Mr. Peckett, who Dean, and he was cool because he used to ride a motorbike. One of his oldest friends messaged me and said, it's just been on my mind a lot recently, but Dean always used to say how much,

He loved you and you were his favorite, favorite student, which is mad, Keats, because he never told me that. It wasn't like me and him were like, yo, yo, we had fun. Like, we were cool, but he taught like Adele and shit, man. So I'll take that. You've been quite impressive people to this accolade. But for me, it was more fascinating. Obviously, it's like really sweet to hear that.

But again, I wasn't exceptional at Brit. I need to say this. I mean, I was driven and I was ambitious and I was whatever, but I literally dropped two units voluntarily. I didn't get a triple distinction. or anything like that. Well, you're a curious person like me and what I gleaned from talking to Mr.

I mean, I do see him quite a lot, but we don't get to talk that much and we did really get a chance. He just reminded me that I've always been very curious. And I think there's something really important in life about being at any age and knowing that you haven't really fucking changed. Curiosity is that is literally the key to life.

I swear to God. That's what he said to me. That's literally what he said to me. And when we were having a fag outside the wedding, he said, well, curiosity is it. It's it, is it. I can't think of any interpersonal human dilemma that can't be solved of questions. Yes, absolutely. And make sure they're big ones.

This is why people, I think, react to small talk because questions should evolve. Like one question should evolve into a question based off of the response to the first one. When you feel like you're in a set of like pre-determined questions, like, okay, as a broadcaster, I would assume, and we've gone back and forth about some people who aren't as, may perhaps gifted as broadcasters, but I've been put in that space because they have influence

or because they have followers, right? The thing I noticed that sets like you apart is the fact that they might be concealing a level of nerves and comfort within the space. And the moment you can tell is when somebody has given a full answer to a question. And then the next question, it means in no way relation to it.

Oh, yeah, no, totally. That's what I'm like, oh, you're disassociated in the middle of this person's answer. But that's also the difference between interviewing someone and listening to someone. Well, you're a bloody good broadcaster because you just open the doors. Literally just like let the water flows for me to talk to you

about interviewing Louis through last week. Because I had to really think about that. I was like, right, I really want this to go well from a very deep place. Let me be curious about that instead of nervous. Why do I want this to go so well? because I respect how he does it. His craft is, I think, perfection

and has influenced me often, actually. So to go and do this, it was like this event for Snapchat at Soa Farmhouse, that's probably far too many brown names for the BBC. And it was quite an interesting summit that they do, that guess what? What?

Guess who puts this on? Guess who puts this event on Jamie Lang? Fucking legend. Jamie Lang. Love that guy. Have you told him that you're chatting shit about him? No, he doesn't. What do you mean? No.

No, you actually did. No. I think I sent it to him. I don't think he listens. So, just shush. Because we're friends now. He calls me buddy. Fucking legend. My new best friend, Jamie Lang and I were like laughing away.

And then I realized that Louis Theroux was like in the building. Like the sort of space that we were going to do it in. I've never met him. And he just came over and was really friendly and really good at small talk because he doesn't do small talk. He immediately was like, okay, right. and Kees Ronald, let's talk about this thing that we're doing here together. And there is something about him that seems strange. And I know I've been on telly a long time,

but I guess I've just seen him on telly so much that I guess I do feel like I know him, which is ridiculous because I don't. Yeah. But it felt really good, really quickly. We got on really well. I was really pleased. Yeah. And he was very playful, actually.

He really likes you, big fan of yours. Oh, cool. Yeah. I'm also interviewing Louis. I like Louis. He's kind. Yes, he is kind. I think he should do miss me.

You and him would be fucking brilliant. Great, I'll ask him. Oh, so you've got his number as well? Keith's his quote is on my book. Oh, sorry, I didn't know you heard his number. That made me feel quite special when he swapped numbers. Oh, sorry. How does Louis just do that?

I got his number from, he was at like an Amelia Dim's like dinner. Okay, cool. And he was talking to me about the manosphere. This is what's so crazy. So he was at the dinner and he was like, I've got three sons. what's going on with the world? And I was like, well, actually, I just wrote a book

about heartbreak trying to deal with this. And he went, oh, that's cool. Can I read it? Yeah, here's my number. Boom. I think we could have Louie as a guest. I think we could both chat to Louie. I think that's quite funny, actually.

I don't want to interview him. I mean, he would just naturally interview us. It would be like, for you two, it would just be like a question off and neither of you would reveal anything. He does ask a lot of questions, but if you're saying that I've evaded my personal life sitting in this chair for two and obvious,

you'd be crazy. I think your ability to engage with other people's lives is still rooted in a defence mechanism for you. You think I don't reveal myself. Like, if I said, like, what's the most revealing thing? What would you immediately think or miss me? Like, oh my God. Sex stall.

Sorry? Sex stall. What's the... Oh, you had sex on a stall? Oh, my God. You really weren't here for year one. Sex stall was a very big part of year one. Yeah, really early on, me and Lily were talking about...

Actually, do you know what it was? Billy Elish. She did the next listen bitch, and the theme was kink. Great. And one of the questions was, what's the kinkiest thing you like to do in sex? And I said, I do have a sex stool that I love. Okay. And Jordan, it was so widely heard, let's say, that we gave it out as a prize.

Love that. Miss Me Live. And everyone knew what we were talking about. So that, I think, was quite revealing. You know what, Keith. Well, by the time I was on a stage with said, like, a version of my sex stool being given as a prize, I was like, I've revealed myself. I've gone back through my... No, you actually do really open up sometimes

there's been some really deep episodes so I think maybe I said that partly in memory of like how we used to be. I think you definitely would deflect through curiosity before but actually, you know, you're right, you've actually shared some really deep shit especially on Listen Bitch.

Yes, especially here. Ms. Me has helped me and so have you actually, especially with the anger stuff that we talked about. Yeah, mad. That's actually one of the things I thought about was like, fuck actually you really did just like say that shit and then just like put it out so it's fair.

So thank you. But I think I also said that partly because that's also the line of inquiry that I'll have with Louis because I find it easier to sometimes like feel connected to a person if they hinge their questions or opinions off of their own personal experience

and that actually isn't necessary for a lot of people or even to be a good broadcaster. I think it's a personal thing. And I've actually done it sometimes to a fault, you know. But then with something like the Manosphere or those documentaries, whatever, like, I kind of really want that.

I really want, like, how is this feeling for you? Like, how are you experiencing? How does this play into your life? I mean, he probably did do it a bit. I can't really remember all the ins and outs. But Louis is like, Louie is a mirror, right? That's like, that's his style. It's like, he rose to peak Louie-ness as a mirror

because that was all that was required of somebody is like, he's quite long enough for people to make their own mistakes. Exactly. He gives space. Space, yeah. But nowadays I feel like the new currency is transparency in society. So that somebody who's mysterious, we now read as like suspicious. Not like Louis suspicious.

But it's more noticeable that he doesn't talk about his life now than it was before. That's why I liked interviewing him because I haven't seen him interviewed loads, so he shouldn't be. Do you know what I mean? He is the mirror. You're right. What I did talk to him about, which I loved, which I had. which this is what I meant. There were a lot of things

that I think I've asked Louis to ruin my head before. I definitely always wanted to dissect this particular part of the Stormsy interview with him. I got to do that with him. And I wanted to talk about this thing he said in Desert Island Discs when he talked about falling in love with his wife. It was their third day.

He's married to a wonderful TV producer called Nancy. And it's their third day and she was dancing that tells you the year to Fat Joe Ashanti, What's Love? 2001. That's right. Yeah, man. And he, she's, He said that he was just like, oh, I can't believe you kept that to yourself, that part of you.

Oh, my shit. It's cool, isn't it? Okay. Yeah. And I was like, oh, now I know Louis Moore. Just from that little revelation. Yeah, just from like one thing. What turns him on?

What gets him excited? But also, I wanted to know more about his house. He was very open with me. He told me where he lived in shit. I was like, I will come knock on your door. Don't tell me that. So I think he sort of wants to be more open. It's just he needs the guy.

lighting light, which you'll be great at. I don't know. Maybe he just doesn't get asked the right questions, yeah. I don't know. Exactly. Sounds like you did a good job. Thank you. I fucking did.

Right. Let's go to a break. All right, then. He only just got back and you need a break. Okay. Join me, Joanna Page, and my on-screen husband. That's me, Matthew Horne. For our brand new podcast, Table for Four.

Each week we'll be joined by celebrity duos for a chat and a slap-up meal. And we've got some amazing. and guests coming up, including Gary Barlow and Ollie Smith, Arlene Phillips and Bradley Richards. Matt Edmondson and Molly King, the town's ends. We'll be chatting about food, relationships and everything in between. So make sure you subscribe to Table for Four, wherever you get your podcasts.

I thought Snapchat had become Nokia, but no, it's powerhouse still. Yes, fucking huge. It really is, isn't it popular? I remember using Snapchat a lot when I was younger. And it used to just be literally six seconds, disappearing messages. That's it. And it was hilarious. It was very funny.

Right. So it would be like funny stuff and sexy stuff. It was very advantageous for sexy stuff. But I seem to remember doing more things like sending me singing to like S Club 7 to like seven friends randomly. And they can never watch it again. Okay. That is quite a weird thing to do. And that was also around the Vine era.

Vine was hilarious. This is what I probably mean, babe. I was always just a bit like, it needs to be really clear to me what something is for. Like Twitter, I was like, okay, words, Instagram, showing off pictures, got it. But like, Snapchat, I just don't get it. And then, and that's why I was probably apart from it, right? So to be in this summit now, what they were saying is that, obviously, they were saying, people aren't posting as much.

It is down. People aren't sharing as much. So what are we using this for as a lot of Americans? And their answer was, is about community and connection. And then I asked, like, our producer Natalie about her kids, they use it to sort of check where everyone is. So from what you're saying it started as, it completely transformed. It was an instant messaging app. But then they invented things like streaks.

Can you tell me about streaks? So the thing with streaks, it's up for debate whether or not that's a good thing or not, because one of the potential issues, and I'm not just solely saying Snapchat, I mean, it's actually duolingo is another thing, another app. You get rewarded for having the longest streaks. You actually get it on TikTok too. Pretty much every, most social media platforms will have a version of it.

But with Snapchat, like, there'll be kids who have, like, a streak of, like, 300 days where they've, like, spoken to each other for 300 or 600 days or something crazy. Interesting. But then if the streak breaks, they, like, break down

because it's like you've lost this thing that has been invented by this app. Do you know what that sounds like? It sounds like AA when someone's trying to get clean and it's like the amount of days they've done, amount of days they've done and if they relapse it's like you have to start all over again like oh that is before even becoming addicted to an outer resource but I mean I suppose you are yeah and then duolingo same thing like if you didn't do your duolingo every day duolingo like guilt trips you it's

like and then it like gives you an option to like freeze the day and then sometimes you've done so many days and then you can't do it for a day and they they charge you you can be like do you want to buy a freeze so you haven't like lost you. your streak. And it's like you just told me that I had to be committed to this and not break. It's one of the things about having like notifications on your phone is how to get lost in it, you know? Yeah, it's how to get lost in it. Duolingo did me for a year, I'll be honest. But like my authority issues went so deep that I was like, you know what? Fuck you. Seriously, I was pulling it another thread. I watched the streak streak break. I was like, watch us. Yeah, yeah,

it's a little owl or whatever. I was like, go on, die. Let your streak turn you great. They're trying to like emotionally guilt ship you. There's owls crying and stuff. It's like to get back to your Russian lesson. Like it's just, it's so confusing. It's like what? You're not going to learn Portuguese today? No, bro.

I've got a fucking life. Yeah. Yeah. I'm out here trying to do this shit on a tube before a meeting. Like, leave me alone. From that owl. Can I just say something? This is reminding me of something else.

What does this sound like? Guilt. And what does that sound like? Religion. On the hardest part from my observations, or one of the greatest lessons, which have where you deemed to see it, in religion is guilt,

being embedded into one psyche about something rather trivial. This is not life or death. Yeah, it's codependency as well. It's like, it's the idea that without this thing, you will be less than... Without learning Portuguese today, you will be less than a good person.

What is it? Can I also say, fundamentally, I was learning Portuguese for a year a year, 365 days and the only thing I can say is I have a dog in a car. Go on then. Otenio unka shoro or ikano.

That's actually I have, yeah. That's what 365 days gets you. Are you joking? Ridiculous. Because I ended up just playing the games in order to keep the street going. I disassociated in desperation. It's actually Brazilian Portuguese.

If I go to Brazil and somebody can put up like squares in the air as if it's like some kind of like augmented reality and and I can press the buttons dependent on the sound and I'm nailing it but if someone actually speaks to me and put a excuse, I'm fucked. Oh right.

Oh right, just realized what you're doing. You're recreating a sort of life-size version of the game you've been playing on Duolingo. That one, that one, that one. I can do that one, that one, that one. That's what I want to say is that. Okay, well, I'll go to a night class with you. We'll do it the old school way.

I'd love to be fucking bilingual. Like, name is trilingual. And also, can I just be, I, we've desperate. would love to hear some duolingo success stories. We are open to the idea that it can be successful. So we should just probably slide in the Metball so Mamdani didn't go, but the Kardashians did.

I think a lot more people than the Kardashians went to the gala. Bezos. Yeah. So not only did he throw a load of money into this year's Metropolitan Gala, but they made him a chair. What the hell does he know about clothes? Bezos doing it is such a big thing, right? So it's like, okay, this guy, Amazon, you know, like,

or even just the side of the business, like what he stands for, the unbelievable amount of wealth amassed. But what's so fascinating to me is, like, these people obviously in this scene, either are friends with him or have, like, a silent agreement that, like, in that world it's acceptable, which I find that just interesting. I think it's the latter.

It's easy for us to sit here and go, I wouldn't go, to the gala because I personally wouldn't but it's interesting that to me surely people are afraid of losing like you can't be in the club anymore. Of course. That's what's going on. No, I know, but we should think about that. It's not just the thing of, oh yeah, of course.

No, but that's that's huge. Like we have a space where nearly everybody else rocks up. Yeah, this is what I mean. It's like, everyone's like, oh God, I wonder who's going to, everyone's on the edge of their seat to see who's going to go and support. Yeah. But one thing I would say is, you know, there's talks about Jeff Bezos acquiring Condé Nast, right? Which obviously the parent that own, you know, many powerhouses within arts and culture.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? And that's important shit. And if we look at, you know, not saying that these are the same situations, but if we look at dictatorship, historically, there's the first things that they come for at arts and culture. So when there are new people moving into the spaces of owning arts and culture, for me, I find that scary about what it is they believe in and how those agendas.

But they already do that. What do you mean? Vice was part owned by Rupert Murdoch. Yes, I did know that actually. Yeah, this has probably been happening for years. And I remember being like, this is so, like, it's just so stupid. Because I was in, as were you, you know, peak Vice era, peak noisy. And it came with this, like, cynical, like, snobby, like, I don't know, like, just energy.

people used to lap up, you know, and these cool kids and blank faces and you're not, you can't sit with us energy, right? And then I just remember seeing this tweet, genuinely, I wonder if it's still online. Rupert Murdoch had Twitter basically for like three years or something, right? And I remember he tweeted, have any of you guys seen this new Vice network, great way for kids to stay in touch of media? Who was he talking to? I remember thinking, like, who is Rupert Murdoch tweeting to?

Yeah. So we're there in our 20s or whatever, like consuming this like edgy, like anti-establishment. We're going to look at drugs and we're going to go pying. And then like the guy who runs like arguably the most toxicly influential news corporation. It's like, that looks good. And then he just 5% done. That's why Vice is on Sky.

Yeah, it is. It's a Sky Channel. It's a Sky Channel. It's also part owned by Disney Vice. When he says, have any of you guys, he's talking to like people. You just look at, they just look at energy. It's like, that's why success in so good in documenting that kind of thing. It's like, it's not even about stances.

It's like, where's the most energy happening? And how can I harvest it? And how can we acquire it and harvest it? It's wild. Like, we think there's like, there's power to it. Why does this feel scarier? Something about this feels scarier. Maybe because of the factual links between Jeff Bezos and Trump.

What I think what we're in is as a space, is a space where we're shown the inner workings of stuff that we've always lived within. So like even when we feel like we've had our networks and our vibes, we have been protected from the reality of how these things are amassed. I don't,

I think Jeff Bezos is genuinely a marketing genius. Like if he is something to do with, like prime as an invention, genius, like as a marketing invention, to pay up front for delivery cost, genius. The idea of like a Kindle, genius. What bugs me is that he is partaking, in like an economy that doesn't add a premium for loss of friction. So I should be paying like

£100 for a book on a Kindle. I shouldn't be paying less for a book on a Kindle because it's easier for me. I should be paying someone more and then that should be redistributed. The issue is that like Amazon is fucking up businesses because it's undercharging for an easier experience. That's mental. Intermediates come in and drop the price of something. Same with Uber, same with Netflix, same with Spotify. They come in and they devalue the entire structure. 10 billion songs, 10 pound a month. Are you having a fucking laugh?

This shit should be like 100 grand. You should have like 100 to get every song as ever existed on your phone. At least 100 grand. Yeah, sort of devalues everything and in turn nothing is worth anything. How do I rationalise going to a shop and go, excuse me, can you order this book in? Yes, we can order it in for tomorrow. Thank you. Walk home.

walk back to the bookshop, pay for the book. That's an incredible experience. But if someone goes, hey, boom, you already pay for the delivery. Just click this and it'll arrive in the morning. Do you get what I'm saying? You can't fight that. No, no, no, no. You can't fight a beast like Amazon.

Yeah. I also think culturally, just in addition to that, culturally, okay, for instance, what the Metropolitan Ball has become. Yeah, okay. We've all seen over the last 10 years, like, yeah, it's business. We all know that, whatever. But if you look into the origins of it, Diana Vreeland, who was like a fucking tastemaker and an incredible leader in the freedom of the

arts and what culture brings to life and style and taste and fashion, all of that and writers. And she was somewhat dismissed from her job at Vogue and was bored and smart and went to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and said, with all of these beautiful clothes, with all of this history, this richness of history, let's put on. a ball and let's just fucking theme it. And I think the first one she did was like the history of Blenciaga. Right. So what I'm saying is that we're also getting very, very, very far away of anything close to

kind of like an expression of style and energy. And it's just like some corporate radio rentals red carpet. Yes. Well, I can put a positive spin on my other attitude towards Matt Garland because obviously our, I think we can revel in the fact that we are. Not invited. No, no. We're the beholders of like this understanding that two truths can exist at the same time.

This is the thing that we talk about a lot. Yes, like my main bit of therapy right now. Right. So we have this truth of the undertone and the undercurrent and like kind of the dark power, manic, control, narcissistic energies that go into the formulation, the money, the whatever, right? Also, another thing I thought, especially what you, I mean, shout out Heidi Clean, by the way, just cracked me up. Brilliant.

Heidi Kloom was dressed as a gravestone statue for those wondering and it was horrendous in the best way. I know, but isn't that a bit her Halloween energy? No. But she should have done something different for this. This isn't Halloween. No. Fuck all that thing.

Honestly, I just love clothes. I love clothes. I would have loved to see her do something like fucking banging. I love it. One of the biggest models of all time. Just like, fuck you. Fuck all of your expectations of me. I will dress.

I will be absurd. I'll be whimsical. I love it. Yes, she is nothing, if not whimsical, Heidi Klum. I love it. I absolutely love. No, genuinely, I love it. I look it and go, yeah, that is how I would approach the mechala.

It's absurd. And actually, I don't get upset by absurdity. I'm like, it reminds me that this is fucking ridiculous. Like, us as a species, as a human race, we are so stupid. And I mean this, and I don't mean it in stupid, like, obviously we make stupid decisions that have, like, really, like, heinous results. I mean, as in we're silly. We're like, we have this inherent whimsicalness

that we can't get rid of because we do these bizarre things. And we're just like, there was one outfit where someone was like shooting bubbles either out of the outfit or had a bubble machine in the outfit. And it's just like, why has this happened? Like, and what...

Well, we should talk about the theme. The theme is the body. Yeah, yeah. And it was meant to be like a celebration of the disabled body, the pregnant body, the larger body, the smaller body, democratisation of the body. But really, it's absurd. No, but it is like it is like how weird, even if you strip it back the other way where it's like black tie events, how bizarre, like all

these guys are just wearing these little ties. Why? Why are we doing? Also, the other thing is like, it ties into so many things for me like, like, is it magistrates who wear that, those wigs? Like the other day, I was just watching a court thing and I was like, why are they, what, why, like the gravitas of this court ruling and this man or woman has sat there with, hammer and this bizarre wig. Why are they wearing the wig? Because it's a way of sort of, what's the word? Like, setting the authority of the situation into place.

Because otherwise it's just loads of people in a room. If that guy's not in a wig and he doesn't have a hammer, then, and even architecture, if that, if he's not up on a plinth, then the person in the thing. Yeah, but what a fantastic reference you made there to something that is ever evolving with the state of the world. Of state of play, absolutely. Yeah. But let's definitely do law

and let's do architecture for Listen, bitch. Okay. Because we really should shut up now. Look at us. Do you know what? We probably did miss each other a bit because we can't stop yapping on with each other today. Great to have you home.

Thank you. So what are we talking about next week? Coffey. Because I have a really boring story. which is I used to drink coffee. Then I stopped and now drink it again. So we will see for coffee next week. Jordan.

Great to have you home. Thank you, Tallinn. Lots of love. See you next week. See you next week. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Pasovenica production for BBC Sounds. I told my dad stop immediately.

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