Miss Me? - Death - Grief is a language we all speak

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

In this Listen Bitch! Q&A episode, Miquita and Jordan answer your questions about death. Sounds heavy we know, and it does get emotional, but as we all face the inevitable together there’s so much joy and wisdom to be felt too. Get bonus content and recommendations for things to watch or read or listen to from the Miss Me? Library every Friday at patreon.com/missmeFollow the show on instagram and TikTok @missme.4evaYou can contact Miss Me? on email at [e-mail] Presented by: Miquita Oliver and Jordan StephensProducer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Katie-Louise BuxtonVideo Editor: Danny PapeProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Sam MichellMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I don't even know what the fucking listen bitch is. What is it? Damn. Damn, bro. Yes, welcome to Listen Bitch. The theme that Jordan even couldn't fucking remember is death. Why? Because it's about time we talked about it.

It's about time. We had a little luck in it. It's something none of us can escape. It's something that unifies us all, actually. And it unifies us all in fear. We're trying something out in new this week. The Miss Me Library, of course, is accessible for anybody who wants to do a backlog, but there's always been questions that we don't get to answer on the main listen bitch.

So we're going to try extending. Yeah. So if you want to hear another addition to listen bitch, then jump on a Patreon. I think we can all agree that we're scared of death. I definitely am. Scared of death? What do you mean? Or scared of dying?

Which one? Bit of both. I'm not scared of dying. How do you think you'll die? I'm afraid of how I could possibly die. How would you like to die? Just like straight up. bullet to the head

straight up. Really? You need it like you need it brutal. That's not brutal. It's quick. Bullet to the head. No, because there's that moment before where the gun's in your face. I think that would be quite brutal. The fear of dying, you're scared of death. Okay, so why I separate the two is because death,

obviously I'm scared at other people dying, massively. But the idea that my life could end. Like, I don't think I have as much of that as other people, but then I, but how, and then painfully, like, I don't want to, like, drown or something, you know. Oh, babes. I don't want you to drown either. But, like, in a plane, I'm not stressed.

I'm like, dude, if this shit happens, it's going to be quick. That's one of my worst. That's one of my worst. Dying in plane crash. Because it's the anticipation of death, which scares me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's cry, let's laugh. Let's jump together.

Let's dive in. Fucking everyone, this one, isn't it? Jesus. That's all my first question. The theme is death. Hi, Nikita and Jordan. It's Sarah from Dorset. love the pod. I was just wondering how frequently you think about dying. I don't know if I've got phobia or if I'm normal, but I think about, and I fear, dying maybe every day, more than once a day. Do you?

Careful, babe. I love the way she delivered that. The Do You was so out there. It was like jazz. That was like jazz. That question was like jazz. I think about every day. Do you? Boom, gone. Do you? Yeah, yeah. Did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, every day. Yeah. I feel like, like actually that's one of the biggest shifts in my life is I feel super mortal.

Yes. As much work as I've done on myself, like I do think we're all falling foul slightly to the what's pushed on us on these other dimensional things on our phones. And I just have this like acute awareness of like all these plans and stories that we're told that involve longevity. I'm like, is that like arrogant to sit here and go, yeah, you know, when I retire. Like, do you know how much convincing it took me to open a pension? Like, literally took me like, I was like, you think this bank's going to be an operation in 30 years. What the fuck is happening? Right.

Because when I had to talk about even mortgages, there's a lot of life talking that. Because it's like, well, you know, you'll be paid off in 30 years. Yeah, it's life insurance. this age, did it, did it. And I was like, what age? Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, yeah.

I've done that. I've just put away this cash. I can't even get this stuff out till I'm like 70. So you've just got a pension? Yeah, well, I had to open one eventually because it was just like silly to know. And also, I don't know. That's what you're supposed to do. But I just, I can, I can say that.

Like, I just, it was a weird thing. I'm like, how, how do I know? Like, I keep messaging my like, um, finance guy being like, what happens if shit goes down? Like, does that just go? Yeah. Like, well, you mean the money. you've earned. Yeah, I don't know. It's just like somewhere, isn't it's locked away in this thing. Yeah, true say. I don't have a will. But you should have a will. No, I know. And you know who doesn't

have a pension or a will? My parents. And that, uh-uh. No, that's like shocking. They're in their 60s. My mom's been earning good money for nearly 10 years. Yeah, but that, for your mom, that doesn't make that much difference because you, the whole point of pension, I think, is to accumulate interest over the years that you've had at sat there. She's bawling out in pension Ville. Like your mom is, your mum is about like she's in OAP town just bawling, brov. Just making money. She's out here like, what do you mean? Stop working, boss. I'm at my peak. Yeah. The fuck. She's keep. That woman doesn't stop. She's currently doing three months. How old your mom? How old your mom? And she's out there doing. Right. So three years and she gets her pension.

Yeah. And she's out there doing the 750th series of Great British menu. And she does, you know, 12 hour days, 5 a.m. starts. Five days. Five days. a week. Like she doesn't stop every. It's just my mum's unstoppable. The thing is what the reason I brought up, her and Garfield aren't married though, right? So it's like there needs to be some things put in place here, guys, like if the worst should ever happen. And it's and I guess that's what that lady's talking about from Dorset. Sarah was it? Sarah saying like, do you think about death? Yeah, I used to think about my painful death and I can't believe I have to die. But now I think more about like, right, what's happening if something awful happens.

Like my mum dies. Like I can't even imagine. But what happens if that happens? I don't just mean the money. I mean life. Like I just always thought I was an age when my mum would never die. Now I'm 42. I'm not an age when my mum wouldn't just... Oh, mate. It's just fucking scary,

Jordan. I'm just losing my mum. I just can't imagine. And I work with someone who lost their mum three years ago very suddenly through a lot of doctor complications and she's still in that grief and I feel it every day. And she's 34 and it's just a hardcore reality that Phoebe lives in. Not Phoebe Oliver, my assistant Phoebe.

Anyway, so yes, the answer is yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, one thing I want to say, my love, in your 20s, right? Because I was thinking you said, you've only just started to think about being mortal or something, there was a shift. And I thought, well, isn't it interesting? We live differently when we remember that we're mortal. How do we live when we think we're immortal? 20s.

Because I didn't think I'd die in my 20s ever. Never mind getting up to what I was getting up to. So I think that is why we need to know we're mortal because otherwise your whole life would look like your 20s. But there's also another, I don't mean to get, I mean maybe this is like a bit too deep. We're talking about death. Yeah, immortal. But also I think in my early 20s I just didn't care about my own life, which is different.

Yeah. I didn't think I was immortal, but I don't think I'd built up enough of, I didn't feel connected enough to people to think that like my life would matter either way. So I would live like, you know, in this kind of constant state. Like life didn't matter. Which is, which is really sad because I see that a lot again with boys and men and like, you know, there's, especially younger men have this kind of kamikaze approach to existence because they haven't been. given enough or haven't been able to amass enough reasons to think that their life is of worth, you know, which is like wild, right? So like, yeah. And now, now what I mean by the mortality thing is I just was come out of a phase of making a lot of future plans, which is nice

and comforting and warm and lovely. And by now it's like, damn, man, like, I, what if I do die? Like, if I get given in like two months or three months, what would I change? and what would I, you know, and grief often does that to people. And then also the other thing is like now when I feel that it's not like I don't care about my life, I actually really do. I'm not afraid of dying, but I do, now I'm open to the idea that my passing would affect other people and I would, if anything, when I feel my lowest, I live for other people rather than myself.

Really? Well, they say that's the right thing to do. You know, like, I might as well do, be of service because that's like a better way to live rather than think like, oh, fuck it, you know. Let's have another question then, babe. Why don't you ask for it? Second question, please. Hi, Makita and Jordan. It's Sam from the Gold Coast in Australia here. On the topic of death, very sadly, four years ago, my mum died from cancer.

And the day after she passed, her church pastor came to speak with my dad and me and my siblings. He said something that has stayed with me. He said, it's at times like these that we may. must face death. I took that straight to heart by accepting that my mum was gone forever, you know, and then learn I'd actually have to face grief as well. And in so doing, face myself, cut to lots and lots of therapy. So his advice is just transform me for the better and I'm like super duper grateful for it. And with this in mind, I just wanted to ask, like, what advice have you received that's stay with you at a time of death or grief or loss.

Appreciate you both, your intelligence and your openness or miss me. Thanks so much. Oh, Sam. Thank you. I love that you're listening to us all the way on the Gold Coast. And I'm so sorry for your loss is for the loss of your mother. And I'm so happy that you and your father could fucking look after each other and give each other these incredibly kind of comforting words at these times,

but not just comforting. Like, when someone says the right thing at a time like this, it does so much for you, doesn't it? It just, sometimes people can say things and it just like falls off the back. It just feathers hitting your head, hitting your shoulder. But then someone says one thing. My mom had it with Sean's death and her brother who died when he was 25 and my mom was, sorry, he was 27, my mom was 25. And it devastated everyone forever. And he said, and my mom said it wasn't even someone she knew.

She was on Portobello. A friend of hers was with someone. else and the friend said Andy's just lost her brother and the friend said I lost my brother to 10 years ago you will never get over it but you will find a different place to hold it in and for whatever reason that just gave my mom some comfort at a time where she couldn't breathe yeah and so these sentences that almost free us are usually based in confrontation sam said like what sam's dad said to him wasn't like, let's just not think about this and look the other way and we'll be okay. It was like, it's like saying the thing.

I think I was going through something the other day and I was like, what are you so scared of? And I just said it out loud. And once I'd said it, I'd released it a little bit more. We don't want to say we have to face this loss. We have to face this death. But in doing that, in the confronting of our greatest fears, I've been doing it all this year, actually, we are freeing ourselves to something else, to a bit of peace.

actually I think it is. I remember seeing, I mean, this isn't necessarily about death, but there's a guy I've been watching this like emotional facilitator or something and he's got a video that keeps going doing the rounds. And he starts off by saying like, this isn't a safe space. That's the first line. Just to let you know. Just to let you know there isn't any.

There are no safe spaces. Like I just need you to understand. I love that. I know. That's like the beginning bit, you know, just to, because, you know, look, in reality, sure, there are places where you can find community, but, like, you just wanted everyone to get rid of that idea that they had, like, some kind of entitlement to safety.

Like, we're not entitlement to safety. Exactly. It's like, hello, we're not safe. Life's not easy. It will shock you. It will fucking come for you. Now what? Like, now who are you?

Now how are you going to live the day? It's like, it's a good, like, you do have to be sort of like, with life sometimes. Like, let's go. Sometimes you need some cold water, yeah, you do. One extract of my book, there's two moments that I think about with this, what he said. One is, I mentioned quite early that when I go through the breakup that I talk about in the book, the first thing that happens after my ex leaves me is I grieve my grandma dying from two or three years before. And it's because I tried to intellectualize it at the time.

because it was so painful, I just said my grand's dead because she's old and she died, you know, and that was it. But when I went through the heartbreak, I was like, dude, I loved my grand. Like, I was like, that was like, I felt so safe in that woman's house. And so when I was like, when I was like going through the heartbreak, this woman came over to my house. She called Charlotte Gush. I changed their name in the book. But she was like, I wanted to shut your eyes and, you know,

find little Jordan, which in a child work, a lot of people do. I really, really, really recommend it. Again, people might think it's not a thing. But, dude, I shut my eyes. And I was like, it was so vivid. Like, this image of me as a kid was so vivid.

And I remember, like, almost getting annoyed with her, being like, what the fuck? Why haven't I spoken to this boy before? And she was like, but you can now, you know, and... Oh, Jay. Yeah. But... What did you say?

It was just more like, um... Like, he was... He was the one that was sad, sad, mainly. No, like, we were all sad, but like, I felt like I had cut contact with him. Because obviously I was... I was afraid of like of how much it would have affected me. So then I had to like deal with that properly, which was good because then I felt more connected to my grand.

And then I've like honoured her by feeling that, you know. I've honoured her by like being real about that. Jay, that's so hard. Yeah. Sorry crying about your grandma, but that's just so hard. No, no, no. I have to apologise about it. It's so hard to talk about.

Actually, I thought I had got used to it because I speak about it with my book quite a lot. But so it was just shocking. And I know I actually know people who have done really well and been in recovery for a long time, for example, and they've still not met the little them, you know? They still haven't like connected to that part because it's so hard because you feel,

what I felt immediately ashamed of the fact that I had like ignored this person inside me you know yeah and then the other thing I was going to say which is a little lighter is um again one of the defenses I'd use when feeling like really pain in a lot of pain feeling a lot of grief is I would talk a lot intellectualize it a lot tell tell these stories you know what what but this this this injustice you know like trying to control and I've got this friend who's like a sage and she just she just looked at me and I was like

why is it so unfair this person's left me and I'm abandoned and da-da-da-da-da and she just went look like one day you're going to wake up and you'll feel okay that was it and like the thing with your mum I was like it's a simple truth it was like

it needs to be heard yeah it wasn't like you'll get over it it wasn't like you're whatever it was just like whatever you're feeling now will dissipate 100% and maybe that's a nice thing, maybe that's a nice thing to share. It's like, but there's actually the issue for other people, there's the whole other side. I know people who feel guilty that they don't think about the people who have passed, right? They like want to hold on to the grief because they're

worried that if they don't feel sad anymore, that that means that person doesn't exist, but it's just not true. You know, it's not true. Like people grieve, it's not linear. There's different ways of doing it, you know? Actually, I'd like to even continue to lighten up the mood with a sex in the city reference. When Samantha is, she loses her orgasm and she's really worried about it. Jesus. She's like, fuck, I've lost my orgasm. She's like masturbating furiously all week.

She's like, fuck. And then Miranda, her best friend in the four. I'm aware of sex in the city. Okay. Miranda's mom dies. And everyone's so devastated for her and Samantha's just like, yeah, cool, just send some flowers, whatever. I've got to go fucking get my orgasm.

I've got to go find my orgasm. cannot find it. Then they go to the funeral and she sees the pain of her best friend. And connects her body. Connects to her friend's pain and just says, and just weeps and says,

I'm so sorry. And Miranda says, thank you. And that's the release she needed. That's some grief, some connection to her own pain. Sometimes you think it's, I want to get laid,

but it's like, no, you need to feel the pain of another and comes for us at the most unexpected times about a myriad of things. about a myriad of things. Like it's just that shit in life that we can't escape.

As you said, there are no safe spaces. There is no safe place to hide from it. And that's kind of okay because we're all in that together. Yeah. Literally that is the, like, who is it? You said it was a friend of mine,

Theresa Lola. And I've said it so many times. She's a great poet. And she said, like, grief is a language that we all speak. I think we might need to call you upset that. No, but it's true. Like that is,

There is not like, that is why I will be engaged in all these conversations. There's loads of issues at that moment around class, around gender, around race, around whatever. But it's like, I promise you right now, and you lose someone you love, the pain isn't different, bro. It doesn't matter how much you earn. It doesn't matter, like, how, like, I don't know, your relative version of success in the material world, if you let that hit you, you are now connected to everyone. There's not a single division between you and any other living human

Or animal, by the way Because animals grieve too, big time Oh, I know We are animals, we are animals, but you know, I'm saying No, he totally is grieving scout, it's fucking horrible Whenever we go to my mum, she looks for her, I'm like, no Oh no dude, that would fuck me up Maybe she's gone.

Yeah, yeah Let's have another question Hi, Megita, hi Jordan It's Katie from East London I first of all just want to say, Makita, I love you so much and it breaks my heart to hear you talk about like your T4 days and how you are actually feeling internally because I'm about 10 years younger than you and watching you on T4 as a mixed-raced child and seeing myself reflected in you and you seeming so cool and funny and bubbly and and authentic really did shape how I saw myself in the world.

So thank you. And I'm sorry, it was so painful for you. Anyway, I was once asleep and in my sleep, I knew that I was in a different version of my life, but it was very normal. So I was just crossing the road and I unlocked my car. And as I was about to get in my car, a single DACA bus hit me.

And I felt my brain. like disconnect from the stem and I died and then when I woke up I knew that I had witnessed my death in a different timeline and was now like they'd merged so like I'd carried some of me from then into now I can still vividly feel the sensation of my brain disconnecting from the brain stem disgusting to know what it is can you help me make sense of what that was it was not a dream oh my God okay First, thank you so much for what you said. I'm having a bit of a hard week, and it was really lovely to hear.

It really meant a lot. Thank you. This thing that you went through, I'm like, death in a dream meaning, but like, that's not just dying in a dream. I mean, I don't think I've ever died in a dream, but she's like acutely felt it. They usually symbolize life transitions, personal transformation, or the end of a chapter, very similar to tarot when you get the death card. Everyone's like, oh no, it's like, nah, death card's brilliant.

It means end of shit, like the end, the death to a bad thought, to a bad relationship, to a bad chapter in your life. Like, death's great. But this I've never experienced. And is she saying that she feels that that was the death she had in her past life? No, in a different life. She feels like she experienced. In a different life. She feels like she was part of like a separate timeline and then experienced her death in a different timeline.

Fucking hell. Have you ever had anything like that? I used to die in my sleep like every night when I was a kid. Okay, that is really heavy. But I think that's why I was so happy as a kid. I actually wrote that in a song once. Like, because every night I just accepted, that used to get beaten to death or stabbed to death.

They weren't even nice deaths. All these like, quite vicious deaths. For a child, that's a lot. And I used to wake up and just be buzzing. I'd be like, sick. I'm actually alive. And then I would just, and then I would move through life like that. I was like, I was very bubbly. I mean, I was on in the state in eastern,

and I had a very happy disposition, you know, Yeah I was watching Don't come up to you It was like Naeastern Nae's done No way

Yeah mate Yeah it's a pretty wacky place Yeah So really babe not only You weren't just dying

You were being reborn every day I didn't Like I only have the memories of it As a kid You know I didn't have the life context To understand

I just remember being fucking stressed Like I And then waking up And being like Whoa That's that's really cool Yeah

And I haven't died in my dreams for a long time. I haven't died in a while. I've done a lot of things. I've engaged with plants that can, I think, give you an insight into what death might be like. And that is, I think, very encouraging. That's partly why I'm not so scared of dying.

Yeah. So it is a good thing. This is why I wanted to talk about it today because I don't know whether I said it in the sort of preempt when I was discussing when we were deciding to do this for Listen, Bitch. But my cousin Sullivan did a practice where he thought about his own death

for 15 to 20 seconds a day for about five years. And I asked him about it the other day. He said, no, I don't do it anymore. He said it sort of served its purpose. So it's not even necessarily something you have to do for the rest of your life, but a period of time, even if it's just listening to this episode of Listen Bitch or watching it on YouTube or enjoying a clip on TikTok.

Let's just live in it for a minute. Because in a weird way, you sort of realize that today's not that day. You're like, God, I am going to die. but it's probably not today. And then everything feels a little lighter. And then the beauty of existence kind of hits you around the face. It's like, fuck, I'm alive.

Kind of like what you're talking about as a kid. Yeah. You kind of got to die to feel life. You don't feel joy unless you feel pain. Like we can only look at the light of being alive if we look at the fact that we will die. Yeah. Actually, the more I think about, like, yeah, death,

not so scared of. Dying, actually. because I think what I am scared of actually is throughout my life I find it really hard to get my head around the fact that people's lives can change in a moment. That, I don't even know if that's a thing, but like I have a fear of that moment, basically, where like something that feels at least in that moment irreversible can happen.

So I think like... Yes, yes. Yeah? Like, you know, what if, what if this thing ran out into the road or like, what if like, you know, like, I've got a friend. I used to play football with a boy who was killed in that Shoreham air. Like there was a plane by Shoreham Airport that just crashed into the motorway and just killed the captain of my old football team. Like that is, that is wild to me. Like that is that I can't even like that the idea, you. You know, and then so it's like with you, it's the apprehension of. Information that you can't reverse from. I don't even, I have no control of that moment. Yeah, I have no control of that moment, but I will have to exist in it. Yeah.

You know, and that's not just something, you know, that also can be, can be attributed to less physical material deaths. You know, it's the same thing as hearing a sentence and being heartbroken or hearing a sentence. It's being aware of a pain that you'll never kind of. of or like a moment that you just know is going to stay with you forever for terrible reasons. Yeah, that I think about, that I think about like hearing a thing or like, like, I can remember the moments when I've been told that that people I care about have passed and it's like, I can't. Oh my God.

I've almost got like a fear of that more than I do of the death itself. Do you remember where you were when you were told that your grandma died? Yeah. My grandma, both my grandmas I remember. Jamal Edwards, I remember Ebo from Foreign Beggers, I remember like I had a friend over when they found out their friend died I remember I have an ex, someone close to me like also passed like just before I went on stage, remember that.

Like it was, it's like those moments like live in me because it's like you hear a sentence and then that's it. And then everything's different, yeah. Irreversible shit. I remember when I was a kid in primary school, this lovely girl oh god she was so sweet she worked in the school

she was like a sort of teacher's assistant and her boyfriend killed her and they had to tell us fucking hell I guess she was like 22 and they had to tell us and I remember that's the thing you remember everything I remember we were like in the new decked bit of Fox playground

and under the weeping willow tree and they took I imagine having to tell that to a bunch of like seven year olds and it's just like what yeah we had that with a teacher. Yeah. But all you know is that everything's day.

I was like, I don't know what the fuck's happening, but suddenly everything's different. Everything's different. It's like the world goes like, meow. So today's not that day, Jordan. Today's not that day. We're all safe. And that's the other thing, like trying to understand why. I remember I was doing research for something.

I can't remember what it was for. And I was reading about chemistry, that jungle DJ. And she was like 24. She's got a Goldie 24 on the road. driving back from a gig in like 96 or something, 97, I'll get the right ear. And I'm not joking, one of those fucking silver metal things in a motorway

flips out and goes through the glass and goes into her head and kills her. And it's like, what? That's some final destination shit. That's crazy. Yeah. And you're like, that's how you're going to take a life. And it's like, yes, that's how little rhyme a reason there is.

Also, just to actually answer the question, it's difficult to stay on track, obviously, because that's a big topic. But the only thing I can offer is that there is some, in spite of her, I actually kind of believe in a multiple timeline thing, like whatever, man, like that dream state, we know so little about it. You know, our pineal gland is just popping off at night every night and no one's talking about it. It's crazy. But they do believe that something that severe, like the feeling of your brain disconnecting is, you know, can also just be a reflection of deep anxiety, like severe anxiety. and the desire, I don't know, it's like the same way it's like I've, we spoke about this the other day. Like, like, I dreamt of stampede in one of my lowest moments in life because I just felt so out of control, you know, and like that is, that was fucking terrifying, you know, just like,

so I'm not saying that what, how she feels about it isn't right, because I actually don't think, I think it's arrogant to think we know completely. But you could also perceive that as like a real, real, vivid encapsulation of wanting, of panic. And, you know, and, you could also perceive. and anxiety, you know. Let's have another question. Hi, Makita and Jordan. My name's Liv. Love you both. Jordan, I just wanted to say that me and my boyfriend have both read your book and we regularly would have little debrief meetings after each chapter to kind of say what we liked about and

what we thought about it. I had a question about spirits. I wanted to know what you guys think in regards to whether you think spirits exist and if you have ever had any experience, experiences encountering a spirit. One time I remember it was Christmas Eve and I was in bed with my sister and I felt this presence in the room next to me and I ended up feeling like I was being dragged to the floor and kind of almost in some sort of sleep paralysis but it actually seemed to drag me to the floor and I managed to break free and jump in the covers. I was so scared I just hit under it and just hug my sister. It's one of those stories that when I tell people you can tell they're just looking at me like I'm chatting shit and they just don't believe me.

So yeah, I just wanted to get your opinion on if you've ever had spiritual encounters and if you ever kind of question yourself as to whether you actually believe that they happened or not. Chatting shit's quite a good name for a podcast, isn't it? There must be one called chatting shit. There's about 15 probably. I don't think I've had one. I don't think I'd quite like one. Not that one.

Her sounds awful and mirrors my sleep shit that I. I talked about in another episode. But I would love to feel more connected to the spirit. I mean, I feel tapped into them when I do readings with Phoebe and we open the doors to the ancestors. And I do feel spirit guiding me often and ancestral guidance. But I don't feel like I've like encountered a spirit on this planet in that way, in that physical, tangible, terrifying way.

Yeah. Have you? Well, firstly, I think, you know, I believe in sequencing a lot. And I've had like really fucking weird experiences with sequencing. What is sequencing? Coincidences that are, you know, some people might put them down to coincidence, but they are like, like, just unfathomable. Like, you remember I was telling you about the candles at Christmas, that one.

Do you remember that story? With my life path. Yeah. Like that. Like the one day of my life, I give people candles. I find out my life path is called twin candles. Like, that's just bizarre, right? I love that stuff.

That's like when I know I'm alive. Right. Me and Phoebe you say also, pay attention. Yeah, pay attention, right? But look, yeah, so, but then also, let me be real. And I think this, I'm hopefully, hoping this is of comfort. And again, like, I have, again, engaged with plants in a way where I'm not, I really do approach these things with a pinch of salt.

I really don't want, whenever I'm engaging in spiritual practice, I'm not wanting to lead. I don't want to lead with like a preemptive belief because then I don't know whether or not something's real. If anything, I'm leading, I'm going into it with cynicism, right? I have intention, which is important, but I'm not going to, go into something and just go, oh my God, dude, like the fuck. I'm like in some other, no. And I have recently worked with plants where like, I think I even know if I can say if something nuts, but like, like this shit is like moved me physically. I've been moved physically. My limbs have

been moved by, but within a, within a ceremony context. And I'm aware. It is, and I, I don't know whether or not people would just like, want to switch off when to hear that stuff. But I, I promise you that I'm not, I come away from it, literally going, okay, that counters loads of things that I've been told, but I'm just going to go back into life and just carry on because this is all ancient shit. Yeah, but that's what the lady's saying. People keep, you know, surely her mates are like, you're chatting shit. It's like, this happened. These stories, right, of energy and possession and movement, like, they've existed

throughout all of our history, through oral tradition and through ritual and whatever else. and we have this bizarre, like, hyper-rational Western methodical approach to science and reality where if something can't be measured, then it's, it doesn't exist. But I would just like to offer as an offering, just like if someone does, has heard this and been like, oh, come on. Like, you know, some people are very much like, come on, you know, sort your life out. You know, they grow up. It's just stories, right? Let me just, let me just offer this.

Let me offer this as a middle, as a middle ground, right? Reiki, I had a Reiki session the other day. Have you done Reiki before? Yeah. Right. Reiki is scientifically proven and they don't know why. So just in case anybody wants to come with this fucking, you know, oh, come on, get a grip. It's all about these four laws. Dude. But why that's important is that means that Reiki has survived the placebo test. So you can't perform Reiki on somebody successfully as. a fake Reiki practitioner, which lots of, loads of people would be like, well, do, I've got hold my hand over someone and just say, like, you feel better about your life and then they probably will. No, it's literally been proven. Reiki practitioners can alter people's feelings of well-being, heart rate, blood pressure, like, they can shift energy. And that training is a deeply ancient spiritual, energy-based method of healing. But I just find it fascinating because,

you know, people will talk about homeopathy and all this kind of stuff, blah, blah, blah, you're talking rubbish, water doesn't have memory, but meanwhile, Reiki, yeah, it works. And they don't know why. Does water have memory? This is a whole other conversation. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I would like the listener to not feel crazy. I want the listener to engage with the reality that I think it's very, very silly, actually. It's very silly that here in the West we are so bound to these ideas of. And actually, when you talk to proper scientists, say proper, sorry, I'm not the person who can decide who someone's a scientist or not. But there are many scientists who will actively acknowledge that the whole point of science is to know there's loads that they don't know.

Yeah, well, I mean, of course. Right. Like, that is what Obama said to me as well, but I know you don't. And loads of things like sage, they've just proven sage kills bacteria in the air. So people who thought that burning sage was some woo-woo stuff, that's got proof. I love sage. Oh, my God. No, and actually that woo-woo thing, that term, woo-woo, is so fucking dangerous.

Woo-woo's me. No, but it's dangerous because it already infantilizes it and mocks it. And it's like, okay, if you don't want to take magic seriously, that's up to you. But those who don't believe in magic, never find it. Yes. It's a choice to believe it, right? But you don't have to believe it for it to be real. Do you know what I mean?

It's like you can see the magic symmetry in your, what did you call it? Sinking. Sequencing. Sequencing in your life. Or you don't. But it still fucking is. Do you know what I mean? It still is.

No, wait a minute. This is actually quite good. I just remember this from the Tina book. It's like, there are. so many things that exist that we don't see, that we just accept gravity. But when it comes to this, it's like, nah, why? Don't we think gravity is a little bit hard to get our heads around as well? But we just accept that one.

In terms of magic, it's like, we were saying this before, right? There's this book called Braiding Sweetgrass, which I've just started by anything to care. And they're just talking about the fact that these trees will produce nuts, right? Armoured food so you can harvest it. Like the tree is making something for you, considering how you will eat it. How is that not intelligence? You try and tell me magic's not real. Bro, like, like, like these, for no reason, these, these plants are like, here's a fruit.

Yeah. Here's energy for you to, to move through the day. You get wounded. They're like, oh, try this. You'll heal you. Here's a dock leaf. I can't, I can't get my head around that. Like, how is that not the most incredible part of the world ever,

that the world is just springing up offerings? And let it be unknown as to how and why. That is, that's the magic of existence. But it's just, well, it's interesting. It's a conversation with ourselves about what we decide to accept and what we don't, and the story we tell ourselves. That apple's just on a tree. That tree just made an apple.

Yeah. It's just how you see things. I want to say another thing about Reiki, right? Because this is, because I feel like I'd said it to you, but I haven't. I just wrote it in my book and I've forgotten. I've not actually shared it. The woman afterwards, she's amazing. Let me shout her out. She called The Dream of. She's incredible. She actually, yeah, she like popped up in my DMs and she's booked up and now I know why. This woman is, yeah, right. Dude, after the session, she says, do you mind if I share with you a couple of things that I

picked up while I was doing Reiki? And I'm like, no, no, I'm so done. Right. It's like, cool. I won't share everything because obviously it's a personal thing. But she said, like, dude, like she said that she went over at one part of my body and she said a message to me that like it was so specific to what I'd been feeling in my life. Like it was so like it makes me feel emotional thing about it. I just burst into tears when she said it because I was like, dude, what the fuck? Like I've only shared that shit with like my mum or like maybe one friend. Like it's a deep, it was a deep like yearning and a deep like confusion I was having and I was really troubled by it actually

and she just said it and I got like sketched out bro I was like what podcast have I been on like what have I said online like what have I put on my substack like I was thinking how how has she been able to I talk all the time that she's there's no way but she just she just fucking

from running our hands around the energy of your body wow yeah over my heart she put something out dude but it was just like it was just like what the fuck man I know all the answers are there if we're willing to be. But we know this shit man. We even say

in our vernacular, bro. We say people are on our wavelength and shit. We understand that we were picking up on energies. Yes, wavelength. You're right. You're on my wavelength. That's so true. And it's like you've changed your tune. You've changed your tune. Right. I think I'm done.

We're done for this, but we are going to do one more question on Patreon. Yes, of course. We'll be continuing to talk about death. And crying. We're going to cry. You know what? Do you want to pay for us to hear, you want to pay to hear us cry. I'm going to finish this little cry over on Patreon. No, this has been emotional, but I'm sorry.

How are we going to do death and not? It was your fault. When you said that, I was like, you're insane. No, I'm so pleased with this episode. I'm so happy we did this. It feels really good. See you on Patreon. I needed that this week.

Confront all the monsters. Alrighty. We'll see you next week. I love you, Jordan. Thank you for doing this with me. It's okay. Goodbye. Goodbye.

Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Percephonica show. Bye