Miss Me? - Don’t Drink the Kool-Aid

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss driving tests, life-pivoting and they hear from a surprise guest!This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language and adult themes. Hello Lily, how the hell are you? How the hell am I? Um, I'm quite busy. Oh the hell are you? How the hell am I? I'm quite busy. Oh, what are you? Well, tonight I am presenting an award to the lovely Olivia Rodrigo at the Planned Parenthood Gala and so I'll be getting ready for that.

Right, okay. I have got parent-teacher conferences this week. I get my lashes done on Friday. Okay, okay, we get it. I've got, I've got, you know, two pilates and a strength and conditioning and a haircut on Wednesday. So, you know, packed, packed sketch. Busy bitch.

Lashes and hairdos. I am busy too. I think maybe because I'm at Mums it's kind of harder to still see myself as a busy, successful person. But I am a busy, successful person. Me and Sullivan had an incredible meeting last week for ropes and I was just floating after it and weirdly the meeting was in a building that was like opposite my flat on Great Eastern Street. Do you remember that? Yes, yes I do. The light Hoxton flat, that one. So that was quite, it felt quite full circle and then we went to the pub to celebrate and went to the army and navy.

I don't even want to talk about this pub because it's like one of my favourite pubs in Doulston and I think something's happened where someone talked about it on TikTok or Instagram because it is completely rammed now. And I went on, I went last week to watch the Arsenal Real Madrid game part two, part de and I saw like Tom Sturridge and Arthur Sturridge in Dalston. I saw Will and Dom. I saw Misha. It was really like one of those days when you go to the pub and you actually bump into like loads of people you've known forever. It was really nice but upset that the Army and Navy's had to

become everyone's. Everyone's local. Thought it was just mine. It's because everyone needs a good pub and everywhere is either Wetherspoons or like a Young's and just a bit like homogenized. So a really good pub now is just really busy and still difficult to get into. It's ridiculous. What else did I do? I had an excellent driving lesson. Excellent. How close are we to booking our test? Um, um, my driving instructor is pregnant and I am not interested in starting this journey with someone else and it's just me and asthma all the way. So I have to get this done by July.

Okay. Yeah, by July. That's a good goal. Yeah, I can do this. I can do this. What are you doing? Like one a week at the moment? No, I'm trying to do like two and three a week because I'm like, let's just get this done. What are your areas of difficulty? Like, where are you struggling? Signs and road marks. Yeah, that's the biggies. Those are important. I actually got a speeding fine the other day in England.

I'm going to have three points on my license. Unless I do the online course. Oh, so many people I know do that and it just doesn't sound like any kind of fun. No, it's like three hours and you have to sit there and be back at driving school. Anyway, maybe I'll do that just so it's something fun to talk about on the podcast and I'll get my three points back. So you did this when we were 17, you learnt to drive? I did. 16?

16, yeah. And so what did you just, because I can't even get this in my schedule now, what did you do as a child? You just went like, I'm going to book some driving lessons, but it won't be too busy at the... At the rave. At the rave. I think I had money from when I was working at Princess Productions, and that's what I

paid for my lessons with. And I got myself to like, you know, quite a good place and I did my theory and past and yeah, because I remember like you could have, you could have your provisional license once you've done your theory maybe, I can't remember, but there was a point where I could ride a scooter in London with L plates if I without without having a license. Anyway, yeah so I yeah I got myself to a certain point where things were good and then I knew that what I needed to do was like an intensive and so I booked myself into a B&B in Brighton. Yes. For a week. And I just stayed at this Airbnb and I did, you know, three hours in the morning,

three hours in the afternoon, or two hours in the morning, two hours in the afternoon for, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And then I did the test on Friday morning and I passed. And you would, and you just passed it? Yeah. You really just take like a duck to water with driving. I've, I've, I've had a much more complicated journey. Um, beginning with trying to learn for a TV show for the BBC and then if I'm

honest, giving me a test far earlier than I was ready to have one and I just, my instructor was like, you're, why are you here? I could not try. They probably did that on purpose for good TV. It would have been boring if you'd just been like perfect. No, but what Lily actually, what they wanted me to do was because it was for that car rally show with mom around Southeast Asia, would be to be a first time driver and then suddenly be driving on the roads of like Cambodia. Oh dear. On television. Right, actually this would have been bloody awful.

But this is my like fourth round and I just have no time to not do this anymore. So I'll see you on the road this summer. So what you've done three tests already? Yeah, I've failed three times in my practical. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, yeah. And it took me five times to pass my theory. Like I'm not, I don't lean into this space very easily. What do you mean? What you mean? You don't like to revise? What does that mean? I don't lean into this space. I don't like learning things. Really? No, I don't have very much experience with tests. As you know, I walked out of my second GCSE. I don't like learning things. Really. No, I don't have a very much experience with tests. As you know, I walked out of my second GCSE. I was like, this is hard. I don't do this. Yeah, me too. I was like, not for me. Yeah, this is very sweet, but it's just not for me. So I just that that test even now revising for my theory, going to my lessons,

it's just I'm just this that energy I get really like rebellious and like, I don't want to do this. So I'm just really having to face that and be like, you want to drive more than anything. So just get done babes. Um, so yeah, that's, um, that's where I'm at. What's the dream for driving with you? Like, where is it just being able to get from one side of London to the other? Or is it like, you know, cause the reason I don't really drive here in New York, I have a car here, but I don't really drive because it's hot, you know, it's hard to park on the streets. And, you know, in the city, it's like a nightmare to park and super expensive.

But you know, I use it when I like, you know, go upstate or may not have something to do out of town or in Jersey or something with but what I love doing is renting a car when I'm on holiday and especially in Europe because it is super fun to just rent a car and like not even book a house or a hotel or whatever and just drive. That's what I'm saying. I cannot be away again, not driving. When we were in Antigua, I really wanted to go out and play pool at night. And like my mum was like, well, I'll have to come get you or we have to like send some random guy to come get you and drive you through like the Antigua at night home. And it was just like, this is a ball lake.

What I need to be able to get myself about. I travel a lot for work with my mum and she always drives and I always her. I hate being my mum's passenger. I'm sick of it. Mm. I think it would be good for you to be able to drive her somewhere. That would be fun. Yeah. I can't fucking wait. Your mum has quite a jerky energy in the car. What? As a driver? Yeah. I feel like it's a bit manic. Like it doesn't, it's not a peaceful place in a car with Andy.

No, peaceful, no. And she is so road rage. She'll be like, you fucking piece of shit. I'm like, mom, you're too famous for that now. You can't talk to people like that. Cause they can't, they're like, why is Andy Oliver screaming expletives at me? Like you've got a rep to look after, she gets so angry in a car.

I'm not going to be like that. You know, you meditate and practice mindfulness. So yeah, Andy Oliver, she doesn't. Anyway, I was going to swerve us into the studio. I don't know how I was going to do that. Well, last week's episode was all about parking space, so you could do that. Oh, well, I haven't seen, we're talking about the studio, Seth Rogen's new show on Apple, or is it Disney?

Apple. Yeah. I've only seen episodes one and two. Yes. It's a satire, which focuses on a newly appointed head of a film production company. And I'm really enjoying it And I'm really enjoying it. I'm really enjoying it. I mean, I guess it's like a bit sort of meta, you know, like for me, because I'm, you know, grew up in the film industry.

My dad's an actor, my brother's an actor. It's like, I'm very used to like being in those circles. And yeah, it's pretty true to what it is. And it's funny, you know, it's a fucking crazy world to live in. Well Seth Rogen's written it with Evan Goldberg, isn't he? The guy that he, that his like main collaborator, they did like super bad and most things that Seth Rogen's done together. And they're just funny fuckers. I'm sorry, that shit is funny. Seth Rogen's face makes me laugh. And not because I think he doesn't have a good face

because I think he's sexy. But it's just something about like his general energy around him. I'm just always a bit giggly anyway when I see him come up on screen. I think it's very well written. But I wonder if it's because you're saying it's true to life. I was wondering whether it was a little bit over the top. I mean, I guess it's, I guess there are a few bits that are a little bit over the top,

but there might be over-egging the pudding, but I think it's well-observed way that they interact with each other and the sort of situations that they're coming up against, the conversations that they have about art and, you know, creativity versus like it being a commercial endeavor. Like it's yeah, it's pretty grotesque and unreal.

I thought that was really I thought that was a deep insight, actually, on episode two, I think, when they're trying to get maybe it's episode one when they're trying to get the Kool-Aid movie made. And then he has this idea to make it with Martin Scorsese making it, and actually, you suddenly realize that there are these, like, deep kind of drug psychedelic music references to Kool-Aid throughout the 70s and 80s and shit. Like, what was it? It was like a murder that happened,

and they were like, he drank the Kool-Aid. Jim Jones, yeah. Is it Jim Jones? Yeah. Yeah. And I suddenly was like, this is a genius idea. Yeah, make the Kool-Aid film, but make it with Martin Scorsese making it. I was like, I get Jim Jones? Yeah. Yeah. And I suddenly was like, this is a genius idea. Yeah, make the Kool-Aid film, but make it with Martin Scorsese making. I was like, I get the film industry now. I really do. That was brilliant. But the film, but I do like that it takes apart something that's such a huge- Is that a ridiculous thing to say? Yes. It's meant to be a joke. Like, of course you can't make a Kool-Aid movie

with Martin Scorsese about Jim Jones. I disagree completely if you go that other route of the way Kool-Aid has appeared in pop culture. I understand what you're saying, but you can't do a narrative. Like, you could make a film about Jim Jones, like directed by, is it even Jim Jones?

Is that his name? Can we find out about the Kool-Aid murder and what that story was, please? Babes. It was like a cult. It wasn't murder. He got a bunch of people to commit suicide. Oh, right, yes.

Jonestown massacre. Jonestown massacre. And then they said what? That's how they killed them, was with the Kool-Aid. I'm sorry, this is an Oscar winner, come on. Yeah, but you can't, you could call it Jonestown, but it can't be the Kool-Aid movie. No, because I have watched a million documentaries

about how businesses have been built, and there's always a story. It's always an interesting story, especially something that becomes as kind of culturally important as Kool-Aid becomes in America. Like there's a story behind that business being built. I'll make it. Yeah, I mean, Makita, come on. You could make it and it could be successful, but Kool-Aid are not going to give you money or they're not gonna give you the rights to make their movie and it be about how the product

was used to kill a bunch of people. Like that is not smart business sense. Do you have to get Kool-Aid's money? Kool-Aid aren't paying for the film in the studio. He, the top guy is. No, but it's the franchise movie. So it's like, yeah. Okay, that would get in my way.

In the same way that like, you know, that's why they keep referencing Barbie or, you know, Hot Wheels, that kind of thing. Right, so, okay, so I'm not gonna make the call in movie. I also want to say a little shout out to Ike Barron-Holz, who plays like the other executive in this studio with Seth Rogen I saw him in this film called late night with Emma Thompson and Mindy Kaling, which I thought would be shit Which was actually very enjoyable and he's very good. He's a funny guy

but for me the what I've always found very interesting about the setting up of the film industry at the turn of the last century was, you know, the fact that this this industry was built by Eastern European Jewish immigrants who were excluded from like, you know, traditional major white collar jobs. Yes. So like accounting or law. Yeah, I guess politics. Yes, exactly. And you know, film at this time was like this rebellious, new, exciting industry in its infancy, and they could create it and mold it in the way they wanted. And you know, they ran these like, they based the building of the industry on the setup of Woolworths. Interesting. based the building of the industry on the setup of Woolworths.

Interesting. Which is incredible that Woolworths had such impact. So they didn't just make these films, they built empires. So they created like vertically integrated studios. Then they own, so they own the production studios. They own the distribution networks. They own the cinemas. And this is why empires were built

and a whole industry was made in the way it was. But I also think because it's made that this industry was built by immigrants, it's about kind of creating the American dream from the outside in, in a way that only outsiders can. Do you know what I mean? Like if you're not from something, you can sort of not immortalize it, but kind of. I don't think the American dream existed before, right? It was something that it was a phrase that they coined because it was their

experience and that was what they were selling. This is it. Thank you, Lily, for helping me get my fucking point across. Exactly. We're talking about people that have come from families that have come from utter poverty and disparity and escapism and dreaming is like, you know, how you fucking survived and how you got through. Actually like Ralph Lauren, I think I've told you his real name is Ralph Lifshitz, Lifshitz, and he said that's how he built his brand, you know, from the outside in. I could sell the dream that I needed America to be for myself. Yeah. Back to Americans.

So I like looking into like the actual infrastructure of how this bloody industry was made and who made it and who gave it to us. So that was very interesting. I hope the studio brings up a bit more of that. That would be nice to have that threaded through. All right. Let's have a bloody break, Lily. Okay. See you after the break. I actually very rarely go to the cinema to watch films anymore.

I don't really, there's not really anything eventy. Maybe the last thing that I went to the cinema and got excited about was Barbie with my kids. Yeah, and Wicked actually, Wicked. I guess maybe it's kids movies that get me excited. But I do go to the theater a lot. Usually here when I'm in New York, I go to Broadway, but recently I've been found myself a few like really lo-fi like off Broadway shows

and you have to give it to New York, you know. Isn't that off Broadway and then off off Broadway? Yeah, well the shows that I've been going to see have been off, off Broadway, like literally in a living room like this with like 25 chairs like around the edge and then like three actors like in the middle of the room. I mean both of the plays that I went to see were excellent. One of them was called Danger on Opportunity with my friend Julia Chan, but what's striking to me is that there is this, you know, there's obviously the Broadway scene here and people come to New York like to make it in theater, make it on Broadway, whether it's like musicals

or, you know, play plays. But, you know, there's obviously not enough space for everyone. And so, you know, but people don't give up. Like they're like, okay, fine, I didn't get part in that. I'm gonna put on a play in this person's living room. Totally. I never understand that kind of like gung-ho attitude. It's like rife here.

And it's not even just with that. It's like with poetry, with art, that there's all sorts of like guerrilla creativity going on here in New York. It's one of the things that I really love about it, I've got to say. It's like the dedication to the scene, you know? Yeah, quite. Fucking hell, yeah.

And do you think that those people are kind of, their main goal at this point isn't even to become some hugely well-known successful actor. It's about just the passion of the work and making and creating. I think so. It's funny actually because there was one play that I went to go and see that was literally like in the back room of a bar the other day and it had this, you know, actress in it that I thought was really good. And then a couple of weeks later, I was driving home from the city and I saw they were filming this thing outside of the town hall here in Brooklyn. And I saw this, you know, that they were like, you know, filming a scene. And the actress from the play was there.

And it was like, you know, just a tiny little crew. And I just thought, oh my gosh, she's really like doing it, man. Yeah. Good. She's like doing that play in the back of this fucking bar. And now she's like here with her two mates, like making a movie. Like she's like, she's gonna make it. And it- Is she in her twenties? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you need that energy.

I don't know. I mean, I guess, you know, everyone wants to succeed, right? But I can't speak for everybody that wants to be an actor or wants to be working in the creative industries. But I guess, you know, the the end game, the vision is to be, yeah, you know, working in Hollywood or working on film. You know, there is something about telling a story from start to finish in a period of time over the course of one evening, whether it's, you know, two and a half hours, three hours, whatever, that is incredibly satisfying. And there is something about being on set and shooting things non-chronologically and in a very disjointed way that if you're a storyteller, it feels incredibly frustrating. I don't know how you fucking do it.

I do not know how you do it. Theatre, particularly. Well, I think theatre, you feel like really part of it, the creativity, you're telling the story. Whereas I feel like in film, you feel more like, or TV, because I've not really done film, you feel more like a puppet. Right.

Because it's the director's film, really. It's not your film. Yeah, and you sort of play your part in it, and then so many other things are gonna happen to that before it even comes out into the world. It's just like so many different processes of editing. Yeah, but also there's someone saying to you, can we do that again?

Which is basically like, we haven't got it yet. So you need to change how you're doing that until we get it the way that I want it. Whereas when you're in the theater doing the play, it's like, you do it, you do it your way really. And then people either stand up and clap and have a good time or they don't. But do you feel like you're, there's more autonomy then on the stage? For sure. I mean, I'm talking as if I'm like some sort of esteemed actress. I'm really

not. I've done a couple of plays. Still time babe. You know who I want you to work with? The new director of the National Theatre. Her name's Indu Rabashingham. She worked at the Tricycle Theatre. She turned it into an incredibly important powerhouse actually of writing and producing. She did the Zadie Smith Wives of Wilsdon, Jesus I wanted to see that. She did the Florian Zellers Family Trilogy, which became that film The Father with Anthony Hopkins, it moved into that. And she is going to be the most powerful woman in British theatre, actually in the British arts, because the national, I think this is the first time it's

ever not been a bloke as a director of the national. Really? Which is kind of unbelievable. Have you been to see much theater recently? No, you're the last thing I saw, babes. You didn't go and see Cate Blanchett and Emma Corrin in that, what was it? It was, it was the Seagull. A little bit of Chekhov.

Little bit of Chekhov. I really wish I would have gone and seen that Seagull thing. I love Cate Blanchett. Retiring. Oh. It's time. Well, the line is, she's retiring to have another kind of life.

A pivot, if you will. Why the hell not? I often think about this, a pivot. I love a pivot. I love a life pivot. When a pivot. I love a life pivot. When it comes down to like a life pivot that you are in charge of and decide to do fearlessly. Oh, it's always so rewarding. Tell me about one major life pivot you've done.

Well, I guess maybe doing theatre, you know, doing theatre big time. You know, moving to New York was a bit of a life pivot. Having children was certainly a pivot. Yeah, but you wanted, you were like looking to be a mother. It wasn't like a surprise to get pregnant. You wanted to get pregnant. So I don't think that's the same as a pivot. That's more of a goal realized. I don't think that a pivot has to be unintentional. I don't think that a pivot has to be unintentional. No, I think it has to be intentional. Yeah, so therefore having children can be a pivot. You're going from being childless to having a child.

Okay, no, that's not what I meant. I meant like a pivot is usually like a step in a new direction. I suppose having a child. Like children. Don't worry, I'm not a mother. I can't quite understand the shift that it may bring. No, you can't. But I've been, Lily, I've been so work fucking focused since I was 15, even when I wasn't working for years,

I was still trying to get back working. So I don't know, maybe there's another life for me in my 60s, where I just like get a boat and like sail a bit. Do you see me doing that realistic? Get like a sailboat and we sail around the world. sail boat and sail around the world. No. Just you. When I lived in my old flat, I live on a river and you'd see people on many different boats all day long and I was like, it seems like a good way to have a life.

Just on a boat. Well, that's on the narrow boat. I was thinking that you were gonna be one of those women that sail around the world. Go across the Atlantic in like record timing. I would pay good money to see that. In fact, that's a good show. That's a good TV show.

Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ah! Ha ha ha. We get to sail. That's the river. That's records, sailing. That's a fucking live pivot.

All right, I've got 20 years. You have to learn. You have to learn how to sail on your own. I'm actually quite scared of sailing. So that's even better. Yeah, the sea is terrifying. I could never could never. But you know what I could do? I could get a country house and live in the country. I could do that. And that's quite a life pivot. Yeah, but this is like, I think we're talking career pivots, aren't we?

Well, what I'm trying to do is see what happens in my life if I take work out of it. Yes, I think that would be good for you. Right? And it's all a bit empty. I'm like, um, what am I going to do? I'm like, no, what do I want to do? And I would love a house in the country and some animals and some land to tend to and to grow things. You remember when you had Overtown, I'd come to Overtown and I'd be like, two days you'd be like, do you need to get back to London? I'd be like, yeah. I'm not like that anymore. I really like getting out of this city. I don't really love traveling around the world because I do it quite a lot for work, but I do love, I love the English countryside

and all that it has to offer. Yes, the English countryside is marvelous. What I'd like to do is pass my test and visit every garden in England. Well, UK, Great Britain. You mean like every like National Trust garden. Because I've spoken so much about gardening on Miss Me that Gardeners World have sent me this whole, yeah, they did it last year as well, just like a little like situation of like, whatever gardener you want to visit, let us know. So I was like, that's a good way to spend a summer. I'd probably just do that with my 60s. We have actually got a message from Monty Don.

What? Yeah. What are you talking about? No, stop. Yeah, should we listen to it? Shut up! Oh my god! Monty John's voice is about to be part of Miss Me. This is like, epoch-making.

Let's go. What's he got? Hello, Lily and Makita. It's wonderful that you're doing an episode devoted to gardening. I love it. And I'm so pleased that more and more people are realizing that gardening is actually really enjoyable and really good for your soul,

even though it does make your back ache a bit. Anyway, I look forward to listening to it and all power to you. Bye bye. Ah! He just said our names. Are you not excited that He said our names. Monty Don said our names.

Hello, Lillian Makita. Wow, Monty Don just said my name. Can I just say one thing that I didn't say on gardening that really has been bugging me? The way gardening mirrors life is that you have to deadhead things for them to grow. If you don't cut the tops off, if you don't cut off the dead weight, or all the good energy from the root doesn't go into the right place,

it goes into the dead. So that is life. If you don't get rid of the old shit that's not serving you, then all your good new energy is just going back into that old shit. You have to cut it off to make a new bloom, to make new bloom, new flower, new life. So that's what I really wanted to say in the gardening episode. So thanks, Malti. Well, Lily Allen, it's been lovely to see you today. And I'll be here one more week. Yeah, I'm here next week at your house.

What? Who have I got as a replacement when you're gone? No, I'm not going anywhere. I'm just like not gonna be here when you get back. Cause that's not, miss me. Can't be in the same house. That is not miss me. We will see you all next week for Listen Bitch. The theme is birthdays.

Birthdays. Cause it's my birthday and then it's Lily's birthday. We're very much in our birthday season. It's tourist season, babes. Alright, darling. I'll talk to you later. Okay, bye! Bye! Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver.

This is a Persephoneka production for BBC Sounds. Sean Diddy Combs has occupied a top spot in the music industry for decades. He earned his stripes during the golden age of hip hop and he's been called rap royalty. Now Diddy sat in jail awaiting trial. He denies all the allegations. I'm Anushka Matandodawati and from BBC Sounds, this is Diddy on trial.

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