Miss Me? - Down for me.

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

LONG Miquita Oliver and Zawe Ashton discuss investing in friendships of all varieties, code-switching and cartoon crushes.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Join me, Joanna Page, and my on-screen husband. That's me, Matthew Horn. For our brand-new podcast, Table for Four. Each week we'll be joined by celebrity duos for a chat and a slap-up meal. And we've got some amazing guests coming up, including Gary Barlow and Ollie Smith, Arlene Phillips and Bradley Richards. Matt Edmondson and Molly King, the town's ends.

We'll be chatting about food relations. trips and everything in between. So make sure you subscribe to table for four wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes and I guess inappropriate discussions about sexy characters

that were animated. Many of them animals. And she's all over the place. I'm all over their shop. We both are a little bit. I was fine and then my period pains kicked in literally as I sat down in the chair

and I was like, okay, so it's me and my deep abdominal pain in the conversation with you today. Oh, babe. That is so shit. It's so real. And also it always comes when you're about to do something where you need to be present. Focus. It's like it has a mind of its own.

Well, actually, I would say I'm going to give my period a break because it could have come at the weekend as we were celebrating my birthday. And the fucking came Sunday morning. So it let me have my party So I can't be too angry with my period this cycle. Okay, let's, I take it back. I'm really, really pleased with your period Because you looked insane at your party. I'm so glad that I could be there.

You looked a million and one fucking dollars, babe. You gave me an amazing compliment last week about how I got dressed up and how I looked and I actually didn't receive it very gratefully. I should have said, thank you so much. You looked absolutely divine in your power, in your magic,

and I loved it. Oh, thank you. Do you know what? Well, yes. Thank you. I felt really beautiful. I did. I felt really beautiful.

I was like, I ain't doing too bad for this 42 shit, you know, actually. And I was going to just do what I always do, which is like cocktail trousers of fancy top and my dear, dear beautiful friend Maddie was like, elevate it, bitch.

So I was like, I do have a sort of tube dress that could work. The tube was everything. And also... I made all of your 90s dreams come true with that tube dress, didn't they? You made all of my 90s dreams come true. And with the outfit change, don't short change the listener and don't leave out that outfit change.

We had a sparkly baby blue one-shouldered number with a high-wasted cargo pant, I want to say, or was it a satire? A cocktail trouser. It was a cocktail trouser. Sat in cocktail trowel. My favorite thing in the world. It was basically all the clothes I wish that I'd worn at the time. And you were very much bringing them into a very delicious up-to-date place.

But the people, your friends, your family were vibrating with love for you. I actually feel emotion talking about it. You know what? It was so good to have you there because obviously Zowie and I are very close. But I just thought you knew. everyone in my family. And weirdly, you do have connections with some people in my family, namely my uncle Eamon. He played a fellow at the Globe. And I was in that production with him, witnessing him be incredible every single night. I played a character called Bianca in that. And

that's how we got to know each other. I was 24. Yeah, about 24, maybe 23. And he made a really huge impression on me. He has the hugest heart. He's obviously a massive talent. There are layers, aren't there? It's funny, isn't it? When I was looking around, I was thinking, okay, around 40 and now 42, this is when you start to see this idea of what life you built for yourself, right? And I think this is why the midlife crisis is such an interesting thing. Because yes, my crisis, I suppose, would be, oh shit, this like really isn't a dress rehearsal. This isn't a practice run in any way. this is it. This is the life.

You know what I mean? 30, you can be like, this wonder what kind of life I'll build for. It's like, this is the life that you've built. It really is. And that's where the urgency and gratitude and urgency to do more and all that comes from, which is why the 40s can be such an exciting time.

But the layers of friendship, it was weird because I was looking around thinking, okay, what is going on here? And what we have is the sort of baseline Labric Grove friends. By the way, is that a painting of Labrack Grove? It's actually a painting of how. Hackney, that my brother did. It's a canal by Broadway Market.

It's hackney. I didn't know your brother was a painter. He's an incredible artist. Oh my God, he is amazing. And actually I put it there to maybe hope that someone would ask about it. And I'd be like, oh, yeah, my brother's amazing fine artist, whatever. Don't worry about it. God, it would make it awkward.

So cool, we're down a painter, brother, isn't it? He is amazing. That's cool. And I did this little pot behind me. It very much looks like I've used my menstrual blunts to decorate it. Yes. Wow, you actually moulded that. Did the kill and everything?

I did not. I have done the kill and this is just a painting exercise. But anyway, we're getting off topic, which is your amazing friendship group. Well, we're not because, well, actually, Tall Phoebe is an incredible sculptor and ceramicist. And that's, you were already following her. I feel this is a like dropping into someone's orbit properly moment. Because we've orbited each other for years. Yes.

Yes. It was a great party. I actually even had a third outfit change for the. afters, which was just Levi's in a t-shirt. Come on there when I was very much in bed with children. When you're not going out as much and those evenings that you choose to go out as a parent, you're like, I'm just, I'm going to pick up the energy and if it's great, I'm going to try and stay all night and if it's terrible, I will just leave.

It was the best energy. Well, there was a moment where SWV were playing and I was like, We met ice. That's what she needed. We met ice. but it was like everyone there was down for you and that's what I feel friendship really is or for that familial friendship energy

really is are you a ride or die? I need it 100 and that's the interesting thing when I was thinking about the layers yes the lifelong Labrott Grove friends and then my myriad of aunties and uncles the cousins and then there's the layer of the kind of newer friends but they're not new anymore

the Tull Phoebe's the Sebs the Maddies Kelly, or Kareki, Kelly from Blotprite, you got to tell him that he saved my life. He saved my life by being him. He's really not someone who's down for that kind of conversation at a party. He's introverted and very much was trying to leave the room while I just came to trauma dump on him. But he was amazing to all feebe.

Actually, every single one of your cousins was doing something. Like I just want to set the scene. Like two of your cousins were DJing amazingly. just like beaming across the dance floor at you. A cousin had made your cake, which was phenomenal, and I left without trying. Yeah. Phoebe Oliver cake, very special. I have to say, I think I was quite covetous of that vibe.

What do you mean? Okay, do you get jealous? I don't get jealous, really. I don't get jealous, even though I have rejection-sensitive dysphoria. Because for me, jealousy is when you see someone having something and you're like, I don't want that person to have it. That's my definition of it. I find that as to be jealousy.

And my answer would be, yes. I do get that sometimes. If I'm completely honest. No, I'm devoid of that feeling. No, I, yeah, but I'm aware of it. I observe and I try and step the fuck away from it. But yes, of course, I dance in that feeling. Interesting.

So I wasn't jealous of what I was seeing in front of me and the vibe, but I was covetous of it. So I want you to have it. But I want it for myself as well. Yeah, but I just want it too. Don't worry. You're the bloody star of that party. Everyone was like, Zawi.

And that's what I mean. It was like quite strange that I was just like, But doesn't everyone knows, Awee? Oh, right, no. What a great person for me to introduce you all to. Yes. That felt like such a great thing. I do actually just want to ask how Kelly saved your life.

Like, obviously through his prose and his beats. Is there a particular thing? I mean, it was hyperbolic to say that probably. But I just wanted to make the most impact as he was like exiting. No, but Blot Party were a big deal. They were a massive deal. A black man at the front of a rock band. We have talked about this, I think, previously.

It was a big deal. Yeah. They were transatlantic. formative culturally and Kelly especially as a front person giving everything that didn't have language to it yet. You're black, you're abstract, you're indie, you're sensitive, you're masculine, you're a poet, but you're also a pop star. You're like a punk, but you're also an academic intellectual. All of the multitudes that black people hold are never shown, well, certainly at that time, in commercialized spaces. He was occupying that space and it was important.

And the music was the soundtrack to our lives. But no, I was covetous of the friendship groups. And I was thinking, I left thinking, I need to work on my friendships a lot more. I don't know, I'm a lot more siloed. Yeah, but you know, I mean, motherhood does change friendship. Can't lie. But also you and your mum mirroring each other because it was your mum that brought the cake out. We will write essays about Andy Oliver.

Yeah, I told one that you want to write an essay just about her vibe. And she said to me, say, can you Charles and I mean, feel free to start the essay anytime soon. She'd love to read it. The essay about how great she is. No, I just want her presence in the world and how she shows up. And again, when we're talking about those iconic people in our culture that create a blueprint for something that you really need at the time, your mom is absolutely one of them. You're one of them. You're the princess. She's the queen. She was wearing feathers. Her vibe is so unapologetic.

It invites every unapologetic part of you out in those moments and those interactions. And honestly, I feel like my cup is full for the rest of the year, even just like viving with her for a short time. She'll love that. If we're talking about the way a life is built up through friendships and of course, motherhood in friendships, that's a whole other thing. I would love to know, like, how you built your life through friendship. because my mum taught me very early. I saw this very early that her life was built around the friendships that she had

and they are very much at the core of life. I mean, what do we have without friendship? I witness that. And I wonder what your... Yes, I wonder what your set up looks like. I had too many boyfriends, I think, is my problem. And these were actually all the things I was thinking just sat there having a lovely time at your birthday party.

I was like, oh, my serial monogamy made it. harder for me to invest in the way that I could have, should have in my friendships. And that was a hard you're that girl. Yeah, you're that girl. You're that annoying. Like, as soon as she gets a boyfriend, she never texts me. Right. So have you had a lot of boyfriends? Yes. That's not a shade on the, on the boyfriends. There's a little bit on some of them. But it's more the, it's like, what is that unheeled energy that just was in the prime of life and was just going from one relationship? to another without giving yourself that real time to be with yourself and to learn and to grow and to do mad shit. Maybe I'm just a bit of a lone wolf. Maybe actually the the understanding

of myself is I have always been a little bit of a lone wolf and as much as I love a group, I also do really thrive in like a one on one, two, three, you know, in smaller, I guess, yeah, just in more small conversation circles. I find that easier. Well, when I was in my sort of late 20, early 30s, I was in quite a few relationships where I was hiding from my lack of career, hiding from facing my life. And so when I decided to, at the beginning of the seven year cycle, 35, one of the time, it started to change everything, one of the main thing, it wasn't just get my career back. I was like, I want to get my relationships with my family and friends back on track. It was very focused and thought through and intentional.

How are you reinvesting in those friendships? How are you, all those cousin friendships, those auntie friendships, what are you doing? Are you like, we need to meet, we need to go on holiday. Like, tell me, tell me the ways. Yeah, it's like that's how we, you've got to call people and go, I'm coming to see you. Like Tyson, her daughter is nearly two. For the first seven months, I didn't really see her because she's like, what, all the way in West London. And now I just make sure I get on the bloody overground and go see them and she comes here. But it's so easy to just talk a lot and not just not make a plan. Put it into action.

Take a day off. Take a day off. It's quite a big one for me. But it takes time. I call it the postcard effect. You know those, well I do as of just three seconds ago, call it the postcard effect. Where, you know, I just go up with that.

You know when you go on holiday and the first three or four days feel like you're looking at the postcard rather than the thing and you're in it, right? Let's just say my ideal holiday. Sunset, beach, palm trees and sun. sand. Excellent. And then around like day three or four, you're like oh wow, that shimmer on the waves, that

breeze I can feel, it becomes three dimensional. That's I think sometimes the boundary you need to cross with that investment in friendships because there's so many friendships. I love your metaphors. There's some friendships I'm just like, oh, they're there. Of course they're there. That's my view out of the window. That's my friend from ages ago.

Of course they're there. And it is a similar taking for granted that if it was happening in a romantic relationship, you'd be in therapy. In fact, a friend of mine wrote a book about taking her and her best friend to therapy. And it's fantastic. You said this the other day. Never heard of this idea of like therapy for like friendship therapy. I think it needs to be normalized. Because there's sometimes these roadblocks that you hit where you're like, I'm about to lose someone so pivotal to my soul.

or even someone who remembers me as like the 16-year-old wild person and that's someone I needed my life to keep reflecting that back to me. And if you lose that person, you lose touch with like a real part of yourself. It's a part of yourself. Yeah, these are the loves of our life. 100%. I haven't fallen in love, haven't had a relationship in the last six years. And I think that that has enabled me to be more.

in love with my friends. I think that is a very real thing. And mum friends are another breed of friendship. Yes. And again, this is the second time I'll mention the School of Life on this podcast. Alla de Botton. And I listened to something that they put out ages ago about friendship. And it was so instructive.

It was encouraging people to understand the functionality of friendship and coming at friendships with like what's the purpose of this friendship, which is something that feels really like the antithesis to just being friends with someone. So it's supposed to be this natural thing that's just occurring because of energy and vibes or shared history, shared geography, you know, whatever. I found it really releasing because sometimes I feel I'm trying to hold friendship as this big monolithic thing and all the people need the same attention and the same parts of me and I want the same from there. And actually coming into the mum friend space, you're like, do you know what? This is a purpose driven friendship. Yeah, it might be enough that

both our babies are two. Our kids are going to eat at the same time. We're both going to be covered in vomit and shit. And we're both going to smell and be a little bit sad, but trying to be happy. That's a really great purpose for both of us right now. That's a functional friendship. I can get behind. And it's had this trickle effect down to all of my friendship. You know, we have friends that we have a laugh with. We have friends that we go to for the deep chats. We have friends that we like... Yeah, do you think that you have friends for different reasons. Because I think I probably do. I think I have friends that I like definitely go to more like art things with. And then there's a friend that I definitely want to watch shit TV. There you go. Instead of that feeling like you're sort of siloing people into

slightly unhelpful boxes, I think it's like a really beautiful piece of truth and is making me feel slightly less anxious about the friendships that are fading a little bit into like a sepia tone because of just not being around as much. Like what do you think friendship is? Because I think it is just being up to date with someone's life. If I'm really behind and I have to meet up with someone and they have to tell me their whole life received, like received information. Yeah.

I think it is about that exchange because. When you get older, you realize that you do need things from people and that it's okay to ask for those things. Yeah. Going through. I'm going through this a little bit with some friendships at the moment where I need to talk about what I need more, which feels wrong and embarrassing and silly. I want to cry. Why is it so much of what you need? Because it's so different from asking a partner. Asking a friend is asking someone who you have chosen in a completely different way.

I think they tap into such deep, ancient and young parts of us, friends. I think it's quite terrifying. Someone said something came up about someone possibly not being able to give me what I need. And I said to my friend, and you know, it doesn't make any sense because I don't need anything. And she said, yes, you do. And I was like, oh, fuck. Of course I fucking do. How, like, why would I say I don't need anything?

We all need things from people. And did you receive that gratefully? Or was it a stingy, a stingy realisation? Stingy realisation. It cut. It was stingy wee. It was a stingy. I was like, right.

So that's what I need to work on. But I'm willing and able. So I will ask for what I need in all relationships. I hope so because more and more I think that friendships are our real safe spaces. Like I don't know how the term code switching sits with you. But I know for me there was a time of life where I had so many different types of friendship groups just because of the different spaces that I found I could occupy as a young person, definitely. And maybe that's to do with being biracial.

maybe that's to do with where I was raised in Hackney, you know, there were so many different types of people, so many people from different walks of life. And at one point, I felt like I was code switching between so many different groups that it was getting a bit exhausting.

Like friendship and identity was sort of melding into this really unwieldy sort of slightly unmanageable kind of place to be. Like I'd be going to be. going from like highgate from like a house party with loads of really, really like private schoolboys. Yeah. That's that crew. And people will come up and like try and sample their garage DJing or emceeing skills on me because I am the only person of colour that they have ever met.

And we're going to let that happen because, you know, no shade. Like everyone's free. And then go across town to a party in East London where you would just be. in a completely different environment, totally multicultural, different types of music, different types of swag, different types of slang, whatever. You know what I'm talking about. Totally. And that code switching life was not a space that everyone I knew was occupying.

It was quite unique to a few people. And so when you meet that friend that you don't have to switch between anything for or with that just holds all the pieces. Yeah. I mean, that would be my Lily. That would be little. And I think that is why, like, me and Lily, why do you think we have a show called Listen Bitch?

Like, that's our grove teenage self. Like, listen, bitch, you know what I mean? Like, that is our grounding. That's our way of saying, we've always been here together. The fact that it's this thing that's a show now is completely ridiculous. And we'll always be the stupidest thing

ever happen in life that this fucking thing that me and Lily say to each other has become like a show, a place, a space. But that's me and Lily not like talking like rude boys. That's us reminding ourselves who we are and that it's always been same as it ever was. And I think that stuff can really fill your heart up. We just wanted to talk about like friendships that we've seen like from the outside. Oh yes. And thinking, oh, you look like having a good time. Famous friendship. So I started with like Drew Barrymore, Cameron Diaz, Charlie Angels. time where they were like, you remember Cameron was barefoot and someone had a bottle of champagne. Yeah.

You guys are like running shit but having a good time. I loved that friendship. Love it. But then I went down this really interesting route. Do you know that Ella Fitzgerald and Marilyn Monroe? What a friendship. What a friendship. And Marilyn like backed Ella.

Yeah. Like stood up. Yes. Yeah. Open doors. Open doors. What a fucking. It reminds me of the Patrick Swayze Whippy Goldberg friendship.

Love it. Wasn't that an important one? He's the reason that she was in ghosts. Can you imagine ghosts of that would be Goldberg? Please. The fact that he had to like vouch for her or Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston. Absolutely. An enduring friendship.

I always wanted them to be somewhat romantically involved in real life. But I think she really was with Barbie at that point. Have you seen his speech at her funeral? This is the kind of thing I watch when I have. five minutes to myself. Did he speak at Winnie Houston's funeral? Um, he wasn't okay. Oh, he loved her.

It was giving. Love of my life died. Yeah. No. Don't you want someone to make that speech at your funeral? Yeah, I love Kevin Crosna to be that upset when I die. And then of course, Whitney and Robin, like, don't even go near it. Don't go.

Bobby tried to kill it. Oh. Like, leave it alone. It was beautiful and based in true beauty and understant. respecting respect and love. But then I went even more in. And also Mohammed Ali and Malcolm X. Come on.

That's quite a good room to go in and hear them chatting. That's the apex of friendship. That's the apex of power couple. And then my favourite one was Queen Victorian, Abdul Karin. Excuse you. We love that friendship. Thank you for bringing that back to my consciousness. Immortalised in the Judy Dencham.

They do that. Yeah. What an interesting friendship. but what was upsetting about it is that when in her passing, he was completely sort of disowned and the friendship was like never spoken about. Again, I think it really was a deeply important friendship for her, especially after Albert, she's bloody devastating

and to have like a sort of, you know, I think it's non-sexual, but who knows, deep, intimate relationship with this man who came from such a different place and gave her so much, I think that relationship should have been celebrated more. I agree. Abdul Karim. Abdul Karim. Yeah, you see, again, these are,

friendships that have an enduring. It's not sadder than the partner not being around, but it's, there's something just really weirdly sad about it. Oprah and Gail, I know that sometimes, you know, I don't know, they get a lot of hate. Let's let them just love each other. I just has to do that. And if anyone's ever bored, I'm sorry, but when I went historical friendships throughout the years, oh my God.

I mean, I could have given you so many more, but it's really interesting, really interesting rabbit hole. You and Lily will be on those lists. Oh, stop. In time to time memoriam. Victoria Abdul Karim, Malcolm X, Mohammed Ali, Lily Allen, McKeeter Oliver. I can but dream. Fucking hell.

That would mean a lot. We have to talk about animated and Disney characters that we fancy because I've got such a good list. So we've got to have a break. Listen. Come back to discuss that. Please have a break. We're going to need a second.

And suddenly I was asking my friends and everyone really has had some animated crushes. Yeah, I'm going to need a minute. I'm going to need a minute. Yeah. Join me Joanna Page and my on-screen husband. That's me, Matthew Horn. For our brand new podcast, Table for Four. Each week we'll be joined by celebrity duos for a chat and a slap-up meal.

And we've got some amazing guests coming up, including Gary Barlow and Ollie Smith, Arlene Phillips and Bradley Richards, Matt Edmondson and Molly King, The Townsends. We'll be chatting about food, relationships and everything in between. So make sure you subscribe to table. for four wherever you get your podcasts. You are deep in the film watching experience with your children at the moment. And I imagine the classics have come in. The classics have come in.

Sometimes not the whole film, but definitely clips. What do you mean? You're not doing like the whole of The Little Mermaid? Sometimes the whole film is not quite appropriate yet for the age group. Right. There is a snog at the end of The Little Mermaid. That I'm in right now. But I would say,

say that revisiting these classics as an older person is definitely bringing up a lot. It's bringing up a lot. Mostly, as you're saying, to do with those characters that were attractive on lots of different vibrations. Okay, you're so sexy. You sound sexy. Because I asked my cousin Namer and I was like, weird question. It's for miss me.

Any character when we were kids that you found, and she was like, Tramp, Lady in the Tramp. He was such a like guy about town. He had a gravelly voice. Like, I know who he is. Yeah. Who was your, I mean, I feel like this kind of comes into different categories. The ones that caught your eye aged appropriately at the time where you were young watching the films and going, what's that feeling?

What's that stirring? And then the ones that we look at now and go, because I feel like now there are some princes where I'm like, oh, we saw those red flags and turned. them into tube tops at the time. We just took those red flags and made them into... And just wore them. Yeah. Adorned ourselves in them.

Yeah. If anything, I feel like the princes... What do you think? Are such secondary characters in quite a good way sometimes. Like, for instance, the prince in Sleeping Beauty. I couldn't tell you his name. I don't remember him speaking. Did he even have lines?

Can I tell you? Can I tell you who is that guy? Do you know, in therapy the other day, my therapist aligned my last seven-year journey to... The prince in Sleeping Beauty. She said, she said, think about all those princes that tried to, like, get through the thorns and kill the dragon, slay the dragon. Yes.

And then she was like, but you are the prince. You've killed your own dragon and then you woke yourself up. Love that. As in the Sleeping Beauty. And I was like, love that. My therapist was on fire the other day. I need your therapist. I feel like what she's saying is also that many Disney films could probably be boiled down to some level of.

of like Freudian subconscious, like you are all the characters kind of thresholds. I love that. I'm actually going to add a layer to the next film I watch. No, you're right. The princes were kind of secondary. Obviously there are some standouts, Eric. I mean, I don't know how you feel.

Eric. Fucking Eric. Eric, responsible for so much deluded magical thinking as a child. She was just like, I could wash up on a beach and there will just be a prince who's walking his dog and be like, hey, come back to mine. taking her voice so that she can attain said man is not a good lesson. It's not okay when we replay.

And she becomes mute, mute to gain the man's love. No, no. Ah, ah, when it returns. I fucking love the old moment. It's one of my favorites. I make myself cry singing I want to be where the people are, because it relates so much to my mother. I want to sing.

I fucking laughed. It was just too much, actually. So good. But there's the princes that they're doing their thing. Then there's the animals, as you've touched on, Tramp. I feel like they were some of the strongest crushes. Like, I had a crush at the time, and it was on TV. On the fox from animals of farthing wood.

Yes, but wasn't he a real thinker? Too much of a throwback? He was deep. No, not at all. Wasn't he quite a deep guy? I think I get that. I think I get that. He was a deep guy.

Yeah, he was a thinker. He was a thinker. He was a thinker. He was a provider. That was a fucking looting. I guess you are seeing these roles somewhat differently. So you're sort of seeing how you saw these characters as a young person, as a child. But then also as a parent, as a grown-up,

I know we were discussing Mrs. Doubtfire the other day. And suddenly, we both have quite a lot of sympathy. Versa Sally Fields' mother character. We're like, she's right. When you're young, you're like, he wants to throw a barn dance in the kitchen, like, get over yourself. And now you're like, oh, she's got an interior design business to run.

She's got three kids. And her husband's like, really fucking around with the rules. I'm actually feeling her pain. I'd want some Pierce Brosnan to, you know, rescue me too. And you meet a Pierce Broson, you're like, okay, these kind of guys aren't coming along every day. we need to make this happen. Stew.

Stew from the past is back. Sally Field deserves a bit of stew from the past. So funny. You're so right when you start watching the films back from the parental point of view. And you're like, okay, okay. Yeah, there were some red flags that we needed to pick up on there.

Absolutely. There are also so many characters that you see now who are just supposed to be kind of cute and disarming. And now you're like, oh, that's a dangerous road. I don't want my child going down and identifying with that kind of way of thinking or like way of being. Who's that like tinkerbell?

Toxic fucking tinkerbell. Fixing everyone's problems. Right. Never looking at her house. But we'll also hopelessly in love with Peter and sort of living that and living in her cage self for that. Staying small. Shrinking her. Staying small.

Literally. Staying small for him. My God. Oh my God. I could come around and watch Disney with you and really take shit about it. It's a good afternoon. Because you see all the different layers of culture that inform the really problematic thinking later on. It's like even when I go shopping for clothes, you know, suddenly, you know, your kid has a gross spurt.

You're like, ah, it's like gross per and change of season time. I just better run to a generic shop and try and get them some things. Because I try and buy like pre-loved or like from independent places. I just find them to be a lot more. neutral in their approach to children's dressing. But sometimes you'll just wind up in a, you know, generic store. And the gendered clothing. It's still pink and blue.

It's pink and blue. It's the stuff aimed at boys is like all these amazing, powerful, plosive words. Like, you know, wow, whoa, cool, you know, dynamic kind of raw. Raw. All the best jungle animals, the dangerous ones, the machines, the dinosaurs. And the stuff aimed at the girls is literally like a hedgehog eating an ice cream Sunday. A lady man with like an old-timey bonnet on. What are we trying to say to the young people of today?

It's almost like lynchy. It's like a David Lynch. So when it comes to wanting your child or your children to feel independent of spirit and free, what do we do, Zowie? How do we do that? I do feel, I do slightly feel like you need to do like a, what was that film? Captain Fantastic. I think you do need to move to a mountain and just be with nature and with, you know,

with real life animals. But look, I can think critically about these things now, but I cannot get away from the pleasure that, come on, watching these films, having these crushes. Yeah, I would do Pocahontas just for colours and. Paint with all the colors of the wind. Pocahontas, the River Bend song. And she's like, do I take the smoothest course? Steady is the beating drum.

Oh, sorry, I took a lot of life lessons from films like that. I really, I love the lessons. I always really, really paid attention to the lessons. And I think there are these sort of journeys that we, even as we grew older, you start with something more like Sleeping Beauty, which is somewhat more women get saved by Prince. and sleeps until she does. But then you got into more of a Pocahontas.

Like Pocahontas was a big deal when it came out. There was a brown woman as the main character. It was massive. Jasmine had preceded her, of course. I think Jasmine was first. All day, every day. But Pocahontas was like some strong bitch. He was like kind of telling the colonizing guy,

whoever he's called Mel Gibson. Oh dear. Telling him to get, right, to get off her land and that it's their land. Yes. that they will not be taken over. That was strength. That was strength. And who's the savage?

She turned it round. She was like, who's the savage, mate? Yes, that's it. Exactly. It's the person who cannot sit with the beauty and strength of nature. It's the coloniser. You are the savage.

No, you're right. And also just subtly serving body. Oddie, oddie, oddie, oddie, all the way through. The dad's must have been like, should we put on their shoulders again? I don't know. Does anyone feel like watching?

it for the fifth time today. I might watch Pocahontas. I haven't seen it in a really long time. But the brown representation was so big for us at the time. You're so right. And then when the princess and the frog came out? Oh yeah. That was the first black princess.

My mum's friend Anika did the voice of her. Wow. Oh my gosh. It was a big deal. She is a frog, the majority of the film. I can't help. I think they did us a bit day. They did us a bit of day.

Okay. It's like, yay, she's a princess. Actually, 70% she's a frog. She's 70% just the frog. Okay. I actually have never seen the princess and the frog. I might need to watch that one. That's actually my favorite prince.

Prince Naveen. He's my favorite prince now. Oh. Yeah, yeah, no. He's great. Okay, you felt, okay. All right, I'd like to find him too. I'd like to find him too.

The ficto sexual dysphoria is very much back. With Prince Navin. Good, good. Me and Zawi are constantly trying to make plans. And we're like, should we have a walk? Should we get a tea? Maybe I'll just come and hang up with you and the kids. You could come to the day.

I think I want to come to yours, get cozy and watch a lot of these films. Please. Can we do that? Let's go chronologically from animals of farthingwood and then just see what happens. And just see where the world takes us. See where the day takes us. That's my kind of after you. I'll bring tea.

I'll bring tea. Because you know, I make my own teas. You bring the babies without this. That's a good fucking day. Maybe we just do it without kids. Sorry. I'm just riffing now. Do they have to come?

Just be us in like a rented screening room in Soho. Absolutely. Well, I'm happy that we got a bit singing because the listen bitch for next week is The Television Teenage Drama. And boy, do those theme tunes bring you back. I can say this now at 42. They don't make them. them like they used to. We got very lucky. So if you are in the age bracket of sort of

of 34 to 45, you'll get ready for a good time. Get ready to come with us. But I will see you for listen bitch for our final show together and then I guess you've got to get back to like raising those kids and shit. I can't wait. Do you know, as Miss me's favorite sidepiece and I was saying this to your, I was saying out loud. I was like, I was like, I was saying, like, I'm okay with being the sidepiece because actually I don't have that much commitment in me right now. That was it you said, I can't commit right now. So when I said, well, that works so well, that works so well, that works so well, that works. God was like, why don't you just say no? You know, you can't do that. If someone's just phoning you as a sidepiece, he wouldn't

always say yes. And I was like, I'm kind of in the era of my life where I would. It really works. It's perfect timing for us now. It's perfect for us. I love this. She's Miss Me's favorite sidepiece. She'll be back on Monday. We will see you then. I love you, I love you too. Happy birthday! No, it's not my birthday anymore. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Pasofonica production for BBC

Sounds. Political language can seem archaic. It's like the light from one of those stars that actually died. Sometimes bamboozling. It's a theme park with a five-foot log flume from one thought to another. And very often, beyond words. I don't mean how to describe the language I use.

I'm Amanda Unucci. I'm all reset and turbo-character. to stress, test to destruction, used and abused buzzwords and phrases from the world of politics. I come with a dazzling array of guest presenters and I'll be exploring the verbal tricks of the political trade, the intentions behind them

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