Miss Me? - Forced De Bauche

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss colourism, the power of brands and smoking.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language and adult themes. Welcome to Miss Me. Wow, go on. Yeah, the, no, a special Miss Me live from London's Hackney Empire to London's Chiltern Firehouse. Wait a second.

You're not at the Hackney Empire, babes. Yes, but I'm in Hackney. And if this was like a Saturday night TV show, I'd be in the Hackney Empire and you'd be Yes, but I'm in Hatney. And if this was like a Saturday night TV show, I'd be in the Hatney Empire and you'd be coming live from Children's Firehouse. Luckily, it's a Thursday morning podcast, so let's not get it twisted. Scale it down.

Let's scale it down. I'm at home, you're in our hotel room. That is true. I was there yesterday in real life. Yes, you were. We shared a chicken broth and a club sandwich. Yeah, I had a bite. Also have had a packet of chocolate covered honeycomb from the minibar,

which was quite delicious. I was very into it. It's actually still sitting next to my bed. I'll probably eat it tonight when I watch episode three of Show Trial on BBC iPlayer. No, but is it good to come home and be able to watch everything that's on BBC iPlayer. No, but is it good to come home and be able to watch everything that's on BBC iPlayer? Yeah, although everyone was banging on. When I went to this party last week,

everyone was like, oh my God, have you seen Ludwig? Oh. And I was like, no, okay, I'll give it a go. Wasn't impressed. I didn't know that people were talking about Ludwig. I felt like that was my BBC iPlayer find. It's David Mitchell as a detective, but I like the way they used his gift for crosswords as a child and mixed that with his ability to solve crime. Obviously I'm

writing a crime drama, detective drama with our friend Jessie. So we've been watching lots of different things and I was watching a bit Ludwig. I thought it was very good. Thanks, Shanee. I love anything David Mitchell does. It just felt a little, maybe it's being in America, it felt a little bit like Richard Curtis' tweet. Like, I don't know, it was... A bit too cozy, Cora. A little bit too cozy. Yeah, it was giving like BBC like house, you know, like house with Hugh Laurie where he's like, he's the same. He's like, all of the illnesses are like a puzzle that he's got to fix.

No, but I love that. It was giving a little bit like, you know, cross between love actually and a bit Bridget Jones. No, no, but I could, what about love actually with a bit of Sherlock? It's like love actually Sherlock. It's a bit smarter than Bridget Jones. I think we need to give the Ludwig writers that. Maybe it was like Harry Potter before the magic happens. It was Privet Drive. That's my favorite bit of Harry Potter. Before the magic happens and there are all these strange goings on on a normal street as it were. I'm writing that in one something I'm

writing. It was giving private drive. Adult private drive, I think that's what they were going for. But you are in London, you had the fanciest of weekends. I don't know whether you want to talk about it, I'm sure you don't, sure you want to have a private life. Well first of all I went to Chiltern Firehouse 10 year anniversary party last week. How rocking was that? It was pretty rocking. Was it? It was sort of meant to be like quite debauched.

Like it had, you know, like crazy things going on in the hotel rooms vibe. Was it debauched though? I feel like people try and give parties that debauched energy. It was a little bit forced debauched. Forced debauched. The entertainment was all handled by the box.

You know, that like fancy, like risque nightclub where like people piss on each other and stuff like that. Is it risky though? It's just none of this is dangerous anymore. As much as it wants to be, I just feel like a lot of the same people are in these rooms and you're like, come on, that's over, surely.

But it was nice to see people. I haven't really done London social for a while, so that was quite fun. But it was quite, you know, as we all know, I don't drink or do anything other than drink that also might get you out of your mind. So I'll stop banging on about it, and I'm joking, I'm so joking.

As you all know, I've been so over the volume. I'd say, I definitely say like, about half past midnight, people started to make absolutely no sense whatsoever. And I was like, I'm gonna go to bed. Then I went to bed and then I couldn't get to sleep because it was loud, because there were party rooms going on in all the parties around me. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna get out of bed.

I'm gonna go back down. No, you didn't. No. Yeah, I did. And then I stayed for about another hour. And then when I came back up, I asked them on reception for some earplugs. I don't know how you can bear to do things like that without alcohol. I admire your fortitude. Yeah, it's not easy. I'll be honest.

Anyway, then on Saturday, it was a friend of mine, Mark Newsome, and who is a designer, it was his 60th birthday. And it was very nice. They went on a train ride, they hired a train. And we went from Paddington down to the countryside, and then they had a party in their house. And it was beautiful. And it was really nice to see a bunch of people that I haven't seen for a long time. Yeah, so we're talking sort of like the higher echelons of the art and business side of London town.

No, I'm not doing that. I'm more like name dropping my friends. That's weird. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. So if we're not going to do that, because I don't think it's necessary, how do we explain who this crew is?

Because it's important. Well, they're not going to do that, some of the things necessary, how do we explain who this crew is? Because it's important. Well, they're like people. You know, that do like creative things in the world. And they're very successful at them. There you go. They're good at their jobs. And they're bloody good at their jobs. And some minor royals. Let me just paint the picture properly. Also, Eugene, who was there? No, she wasn't. She really wasn't. She actually wasn't. She really wasn't.

She actually wasn't. She really wasn't. No, though. And they actually weren't that minor. Anyway, you know, I do like a bit of ladi-daring sometimes. You were quite surprised. You're like, what's she doing coming back to London and diving straight into that part of the world? But there is something fascinating about it all. I like when that part of you is being stroked. Okay. Do you? Yeah, you become a little cat who sort of saunters around the city and I'm just like, yes. Meow. Exactly. It was a bit meow-y this weekend and so it fucking should have been.

The reason I was talking about the way London used to be is because my auntie, we've spoken about her a lot on the podcast, Nana Cherry, she's had a very long, decade long career as a musician. Decades. Decades. Decades. Sorry, I meant to say decades long career. And she has put out her memoir, A Thousand Threads.

It's fantastic. I've only just started it, but it's just so, she's a poet. The way she writes is beautiful, Lil. I know, I read it. I read it months ago. Oh yeah, you read it. it yeah you're a bit niece than me. Yeah sorry you've read it and um she's had this insane week right she's doing Graham Norton she was terrified she did very well Hugh Grant is a great man to be on Graham Norton with basically and she was brilliant and then she sort of went all around the country and she saw like Daddy G all the old Massive Attack

crew in Bristol, did some stuff with Bernadine Evaristo. And it culminated at the South Bank on Sunday with my mother, who has been friends with her since they were 15 and they met in a hospital corridor. And that friendship built our entire family. Like truly, it's at the core of a lot of stuff. Isn't that just mind blowing that like,

if they like had missed each other by a couple of minutes, then like we wouldn't know each other. This is it. They would have never have missed each other. So really when someone talks about the moments in their life, it's just one red thread of what's gonna happen to your life anyway, and just all the ways it did happen. Like as if mom and Nana would never meet,

you know what I mean? Or your mom and my mom. But it did make me think about us as the next generation. Like we just call ourselves cousins, we think of ourselves as families, but it's all because these people just met and loved each other and decided to create their own big families.

And it was a really special thing. They had, I mean, the whole audience, they leave as aunties and uncles from every, from Sam Robertson to Jeanette to Dick Jewell. And then they had all this great footage from the eighties of Nana just running around the world. I mean, Nana was a global superstar in the late eighties, early nineties.

I sort of forgot. You don't forget, but you forget the details. And mum interviewed her, it was absolutely splendid. And everyone was talking a lot about how their friendship and how much love there is and respect for each other. But I was thinking about the fact that actually a lot of colorism and racism has run throughout my mum and Nana's relationship in their life and also in their work.

They are both at this interesting time where they're being deeply celebrated together for doing the things that they powerfully do in their lives. That has not been the case. They were in a punk band, RIP, RIG and PANIC, with a load of our other uncles. And they were kind of individuals within this group. But then Nana becomes a pop star in the 90s, and Nana is mixed race. She's Swedish African. My mom is black, dark, Caribbean on both sides, and of course African as well.

And Nana is celebrated for these things, celebrated for being beautiful. One of the most beautiful women that's ever walked the planet. Beautiful, but also thin and lighter than my mother. My mom at this time tries to be a singer and can only be a backing singer for years and years and years. My mom at this time tries to be a broadcaster and goes through horrific situation after situation,

particularly with a show called Native Tongues where a channel said that they wanted to pilot and it was all celebrating black culture and they were told in the room, this is too black, no one will watch it. Unfortunately, I wish that was only a sentence you would have heard then. Because people say that now, they just put it in a different coat. And at this time, Nana's career rises and rises and rises and my mum sinks and, you know, they go through the hell of losing my mum's brother and it breaks everyone's heart for a long, long, long, long time. And I just thought, good for them for not only being powerful in their industries right now, but for letting their friendship wade through that celebration of Nana and my mum

being put in such a different positioning of her. And they've just come together, back together strong and always just have stayed so in love with each other. Do you think they ever talked about the colorism with each other? No, I don't think so. I mean, yeah, I mean, it was such a difficult subject for so long. I don't think they would have talked about it, no.

Do you think they talk about it now? Yeah. And that's the great, we know now in friendship, you get a little bit older and you're like, I just need to talk about that thing. I just said I won't go there. That was fucking horrible for me. So it meant a lot of things.

It wasn't just beautiful and lovely. I was like these strong women, what they've survived. And I was thinking about institutionalized racism in the industry. You know, I still feel so blocked, so blocked so often. And I think that there is a part of me, Lily, that feels like there is only so far that my industry will allow me to go in their eyes, television, particularly. And I think that it is up to me and it is on my shoulders to take myself further. And actually I'm fine with that because why would they care about the things I want to do in the way that I care about them? Like that you are the person that

has to push yourself forward. I have a great team as you know, but I'm the one that has to push things forward because it's not like people from TV will be like, how do we help you expand your career and really help you grow? No. Well power is never given, it has to be taken, right? Yes, that's right. That's right. And I feel, I feel really powerful. But these, these women we come from, Lily, we should really do mothers soon for this and bitch. Really? Okay. Yeah. I've been, I've been giving you a bit of time,

but I think we should. I had breakfast with mine this morning. You had breakfast with Auntie Alison? Yes. How was that? It was nice actually. We had a nice time. It's insane to me that you see your mom

every sort of four months. That's not true. I see her more often than that. And I talked to her a lot on the phone. Yeah. Okay, all right. You know, she'll come to New York quite a lot to see the girls. Yeah. Especially if I've got to go and do some work or something. The odd occasion that I actually do something in my fucking life. All right. All right. Well, what about all the shopping you did? You haven't stopped. It's kept you busy. It's kept me very busy. I got to Lily's hotel room. No, I, what's the word?

Busted. I was like, how could she not hide these big huge bag with five or six inside empty, ready to be taken away. I was like, Oh, what happened there? They were just in the room when I got here. I didn't. Gifts? No, no, no, they were just the last guests' shopping bags. I don't know where they came from. Are you lying to me right now? I can't believe you're lying.

I think it's completely valid, Lily. As you said to me once recently, when you were on Little Shopping's Free, I said, I think you might need to calm down. And you said, listen, I don't drink or take drugs. I need a hit I was like you know fair enough Can't just be coffee. I know but you know what the thing is This is a problem for me because when I'm feeling like very low

The credit card gets it right like we're going out and we are like playing a role of someone that is much richer. Sometimes I have to like take everything back. Like it's that much of a problem. Like it's a bit pretty woman, I guess maybe, you know? Yeah. She didn't give it back though. No, I know. But she also didn't pay for it. Yeah, that's true. Edward got it. That was Edward's card. Because the thing is, is that I know

that the only thing worse than having low sense of self-worth and feeling like the world is falling out from underneath you is then four weeks later, your credit card bill to turn up and you not be able to pay it. That doesn't do anything. That's not helping matters. And then I'm like, at least I've got like six handbags. It's like, we're not going out babes. We're not going anywhere to show off those handbags.

But is it, is it for you, is it just clothes where you feel, cause we're talking about consuming, right? It's any old shit. It's makeup, it's hair brushes, it's perfume, yeah it's handbags, it's shoes, it's hosiery, it's face creams, a lot of face creams as you've seen. I can get a bit funny about my creams. Yes, I have shipped them across the world for you. Olive oil. Like I could like spend like ridiculous amounts of money on olive oil. Like you name it. I can overspend on it.

Is this a transference of addiction? Absolutely, 100%. Okay, well then it's fine then. By the way I've actually even been known to sleep shop. No that's not possible? Yes it is because there was a while ago when I had real issues with sleeping and traveling and I would get prescribed these sleeping tablets called Ambience or Zopa clones and I would shop in my sleep and I would completely forget about it and then the next day or a couple of days later like just things would start arriving and I'd be like what are these? And then there'd be a receipt that said like 2 30 in the morning you bought

four pairs of Roger Vivier ballet pumps. Oh God, I mean great. Which colorways did you get? But seriously, that's not healthy, is it? No, it's really bad. Well, good news is I got my money back from the scam. You did not. Yeah, it was really unexpected. But I've been doing quite a lot of chanting and I've had like quite a good few days of

like releasing some old shit. Yeah, you manifested that money right back into your bank account. But can I just say, I do believe I am correct in saying this, that there is a kind of scamming tech internet insurance that people can take out, just so you know, for future reference. Because it is very common, and we live in a world where this is only going to get more intense. I'm not, I'm not working for any particular insurance company, not selling policies, but you know, wear protection guys.

Yeah, absolutely. It's not been an easy month, but anyway, because I got a bit of money, I was like, right, it's been really horrible financially. And I just, I want to buy myself something. So I bought myself like an expensive winter jacket and yeah, it filled that hole. I was like, I feel great. I feel great. For how long? Well, no, I still feel good.

Yeah, I still feel good. Oh wow, mine lasts like seven minutes. Well, I was thinking about what it is that happens in the moment when you buy something, right? Is it, this is how I'm gonna look in this or this is getting me closer to the person I think I am or I will show this person that I can write. I mean, I don't know what it is, but it sometimes just does the job. I was like, I feel great now. Maybe it's because of the way I got the money back and I felt vindicated.

But I was thinking about the brands that we loved as children. Averyx, oh listen, listen bitch. See that's the thing, see this is the thing, this is more 20s and I thought we should just quickly start with kids. I'm talking about the power of a brand. And the brands that were powerful when I was little, correct me if I'm wrong, McDonald's,

Nike and you know Virgin. You know they were represented like power, glamour and travel. So I was like okay these are the brands that sort of make up the world. But then in your 20s you get a bit more niche-y and it's about like brands that like show who yeah surely kind of bitch you is. Avax of course darling. Avax, P darling. Ava X. Pat and Losh.

Maybe. Shot. Do you remember the Shot jacket? Oh yeah. I think I have one still. Yeah. Naf Naf, Benetton, et cetera. Mambo.

No. What the fuck is that? Yeah, I was a little bit into the surf wear. Billabong. Oh. right. Airwalk. Yes. DC Schuko USA.

Come on. Chachachapow, DCs. DCs, bro. Actually, I was more airwalk, because DCs are a bit clunky. But this is us defining who we are through brands, right? And then there are brands that kind of could be so important and like,

you never think they're going anywhere and then they become completely obsolete. Like, not Nokia. Like, when we were young, that's not a brand that you thought would ever leave the universe, the planet. Everyone was talking about this brand that had the phones, the phones, not just one,

the phones that you wanted to have. Blackberry, obviously. RIP. Rest in peace. News of the world. Go on. Discman. Discman gone. I was trying to explain to Autumn, she's like, so you had a CD in a case and then put it in like a portable player for like a big CD. I was like, we didn't think that. I thought it was quite nifty and portable, but yeah, it was huge. And would jump. How stupid is a fucking Discman? You're on the road or you're in travel, but they do jump if you move. So. Mad thing.

Mad thing. So I watched the story of, it's called Very Ralph. And it's about how Ralph Lauren built, well, built America, but also built the house of, it's called Very Ralph, and it's about how Ralph Lauren built, well, built America, but also built the house of Ralph Lauren. And actually he was the first brand that was an apparel, you know, a clothes designer brand who became a lifestyle brand. And now there isn't a brand in the world that doesn't want to be a lifestyle brand. He did this by having the first, I think he was the first to have standalone shops because before he would go into his department stores and see Ralph Lauren stuff on really bad mannequins with bad lighting. He was like, I can't do this. So he went and

built those, you know, the mold of how you do your bricks and mortar of your brand. He made them look like stately homes with history and stories so that the stories he wanted to tell through his clothes made more sense. I mean, Ralph Lauren home was a game changer, changed everything. I've never bought anything from Ralph Lauren home. Oh, I lie. I bought towels for over town from Ralph Lauren home. Oh, wow. So that period of your life. Yeah. Yeah. The over town years and insects in the city once around's like, these are Ralph Lauren sheets. It became part of like the zeitgeist to have Ralph Lauren home.

And then if you lead that into skims, I just read the most unbelievable article with Kim Kardashian in the Financial Times, How to Spend It. How Kim Kardashian is sitting on a $4 billion empire after five years of launching her brand. Same. Yes, same thing. I will be, I will be there. But I mean, they say that skims exists in the intersection of culture and commerce. So having a brand that's very powerful now, you have to be talking to people and representing kind of the way the world looks. She's done a lot of work with like lots of diversity and vibes and those marketing campaigns are very,

very interesting, very well timed, very well curated. You got any skims? I do actually, I've got a couple of skims dresses. There you go. I will say that having bought a couple of things off of the skims website, I'm bombarded with skims emails every time they launch a new product, which is about three times a day. So I have to do quite a lot of unsubscribing. I fucking hate marketing emails.

Yeah, no, I completely agree. And obviously, I'm building a brand. I hate saying brand, but I am. And that little things like that. I'm like, I'm never going to do that to customers. It's fucking annoying. And it makes you hate the brand. Sometimes when I'm like, and when I've got like a quiet work week, I just will every single email that comes through, I just like unsubscribe. I like make a really concerted effort like sometimes if I'm on a holiday or something, I'll just be like, I'm just going to unsubscribe for a whole week. And then sometimes people's marketing emails come like once every

two weeks. So you haven't quite got rid of all of them. You know what's so annoying? It's like you'll come out of a meeting or you'll go into the movies or something and you'll come out and it'll be like 14 notifications and they're all just marketing emails, like nothing to do with anything. And then you're like, oh yeah, I could do with a new skims pair of bottoms and then you'd be 120 dollars down all of a sudden. It's like, what the fuck? Well, I, because of all the scamming and then my cards and all that was compromised.

I was waiting for new cards for everything that was subscribed to got all fucked. And then when I went to go back, they were like, this hasn't worked either. This declined for this. And I was like, who are all these other, Paramount Plus, cello, like a classical music, all these places I'd forgot subscribing to

within the Amazon sphere, that was costing me over 120 pounds a month. And now I've put that to a new gym membership. I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Unsubscribe, always check your subscriber list because I bet you there's loads of shit you can't remember in there. I'm always unsubscribing because my children, check your subscriber list because I bet you there's loads of shit you can't remember in there.

I'm always unsubscribing because my children quite often subscribe to sort of certain games and things like that that will inevitably be like 14.99 a week or something. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Scams. Try having two teenage children. That's a fucking scam.

They're not even teenagers yet, Lil. You haven't even started that train. Do you remember asking your mom for money for food? Yep. age children that's a fucking scam. Not even teenagers yet Lil, you haven't even started that train. Do you remember asking your mum for money for food? Yep £2.50. Might have started doing that and it's like I know that they're not saying that they're like buying cigarettes or drugs or something but it's like they're like mum we're going out shopping and probably like go out for dinner so can I have an extra $10 or extra $15?" And you're like, that's... Yeah. Here come the lies. Bullshit. Bullshit. I mean, who do you think? You're fucking kidding? We invented this shit. But our parents, who say that to us, they'd be like, you think

you can lie to us, but we invented this. And it's like, no, you didn't. We actually did, Lil. Me and you did actually invent the hustle of teenagehood. Don't even start me because I had some whoppers. I was like... You're a hustler? I stole off my mom. I stole off her. Cash money? It was even worse. A couple of times, I did this thing where she'd come home from work

and I knew her pin number to her credit card. And I'd be like, oh, mom, you look so tired. Let me run you a bath. And then I'd run her a bath, which would give me like 18 minutes. Run to Upper Street. Run to Upper Street, bar please. With your quick 50 quid. Get back, shove the card back in her wallet. I don't know why I'm acting like this wasn't how we got by for at least three years. You're like, really? Wow. When you were fully there, like actually involved, you were running the bath.

I was there giving her a foot massage. Yeah, you were like, you want lavender in here, Auntie Alison? Yeah, T minus 17 minutes, go. That's actually terrible stealing is so bad and I totally did it as well I really do not want to go to it. I'm gonna have to do an amends when I get to my step nine with my mom I'm going to be like listen I probably owe you about seven grand. Oh my god I wouldn't want to know. With interest. Now it's probably like 34 grand. No, it's probably a little bit more than that.

Am I going to get assassinated for revealing that by the way? Probably. It's going to be like another thing to put in the artillery of Lily's an awful human being. To be fair, you don't need to say much for the motherfuckers to try and come for you, so you might as well say what you want. Damn straight. I'm a thief! God damn straight. I'm a thief. God damn it. I'm a thief.

Well, it feels like the newspapers have been begging for a sort of ridiculous caricature of who you actually are. So let's give them one. Here she is again, the artful daughter. I like to swing puppies out of windows and steal from my mama. Charles Dickens couldn't have written it better himself. Hello, hello, hello. All right, let's have a little break before

Lydia goes full on who will buy these beautiful roses. We'll see you after the break. We'll see you after the bloody break. Welcome back people. No, okay. If I asked you to do it, you could do it like that, if I asked you to do it, you're going to do it like that, then I'm going to do it. Welcome back, people. Welcome back, everyone. That's better. Settle in.

Take a pew. Yes. We're going to talk about fags. Fags and vipes. Smoking in general, really. Well, see, we had smoking icons. Can you imagine that now? Oh, no, I imagine you're doing a kind of stylized, but ours were like Pat Butcher and Dot Cotton. Smoking in general really. We had smoking icons, can you imagine that now?

Oh no, I imagine you're doing a kind of stylised, but ours were like Pat Butcher and Doc Cotton. They were not glamorous people, but boy did they love a fag. They did. They were smoking everywhere. On TV I mean. When we were young. Babes, you could smoke on the top level of the bus when I was a kid. No, we are younger than that.

No Makita, I remember very clearly getting on the bus to nursery on Oxford Street from Berry Place. And I had this, there was this bus conductor every day who had a little Care Bear badge on. And we would go upstairs on the bus and people would be smoking at the back, only at the back of the bus. That's like saying we were born in 1967. And I would go to nursery smelling of fags. Yeah, yeah. It was only the start of things to come.

Everyone's stank of fags. I actually, someone asked me like, well not someone, just admit I'm always with Autumn in the set room before we do this and Autumn said to me, well what was the way you started smoking and I was like, oh, I don't think I know how Lily started smoking. Oh my god I actually like all these milestones, milestones like we talked about this with virginity and stuff like I just don't really remember it just happened it felt like it was like inevitable right? Like yes but we weren't nine we were like eleven.

I just remember thinking like my parents and all their friends, everyone used to smoke silk cut. Do you remember? Oh my God, that was so the grownup fag. Silk cut, which actually when you finally got your hands on one of them was shit. They didn't even, you couldn't, didn't hit the back of your throat. They were no B and H gold babes.

And that was your brand. Cause obviously there, if you talk about the timeline of smoking, there's this in our childhood. We don't, I don't remember people smoking in hospitals and stuff, because my mom and Nana met in that hospital, having a fag in the hospital corridor. Can you even imagine? But in our day, you could smoke in restaurants, pubs, coffee shops, wherever the fuck you wanted. But then I remember the band coming in and I remember standing outside sketch and I was with Freddie and he, and he was like, you know that the smoking band's official and it's starting in two weeks.

And everyone was just like, I don't, I can't fathom how this is actually even going to work. I really think that it was the smoking band that killed pubs. Or definitely Vibe. They've never been the same again. You want to walk into a pub and be like, like the stench of like stale booze and like fag carpet. Like, I just miss it. It was just, if you're used to seeing something and smelling, so it's the way things looked, smelt and felt stinky fags, smoky rooms. And you know what? It was atmosphere. It was atmospheric. That shit brings an atmosphere to the city. What about parents smoking in the car? My dad used to smoke in his car all the time

with me and Alfie in the back in his old Citroen. I mean people would say probably that's terrible for secondhand smoke for kids but I think people smoke in their car still. I smoke in my mum's car. We should also say I smoke and so do you. No. I gave up ages ago. Well at the moment you're vaping. I'm vaping. I'm vaping, yeah.

And you've joined, I think there's four million vapors and like six and a half million smokers. Tell me why you think that's better for you or how does it get work in your life more than fags? Okay, I'm just going to reveal something about myself. Like I have issues around food, right? And I have not been very happy lately and I haven't been eating properly and I have lost quite a bit of weight and it makes me look older.

And I think that smoking cigarettes would further compound that. So vaping is meant to be, it's a vanity thing for me. It's about my skin, laxity. I absolutely get that because people I know who are, it's our age as well, so it's like, okay, so actually, like I know that there are lines on my face because I smoke. I smoke quite a lot of roll-ups a day.

The thing about vapes that's so fucked up though is if we're talking about marketing and stuff, it is a bit crazy that they are allowed in this market with advertising standard laws to just sell them like sweets. But they don't really. I don't see much advertising. It's just when you go into the shops, they're just like there. They look like sweets. I mean the way they look. Exactly. There's not TV adverts going, yeah, you pick your raspberry blueberry. I'm surprised there aren't. Maybe that's where they step in. But they

are marketed as nice sweets and toys, sweetie toys. Do you know, you're not allowed to smoke on stage, right? In venues. And they would always say like, you know, if you smoke, you get a 2,500 pound fine. And so I would just add that onto my fee. You'd be like, fine. I'll be talking. That'll be happening.

So that will be a cost. I'll put it in the budget. Thank you. And much like that fateful day in, well, I was 22, so it was 18 years ago, 1st of July, 2007, they kicked off the summer with it, you bastards. And that fateful day is ruining its ugly head again, because someone told me while I was enjoying a cigarette outside a pub, Keir Starmer's just looking at, taking a look at, outdoor smoking ban. Mad thing. That is a mad thing. I'm not interested. I'm not saying we all need to smoke, but let's be realistic about the needs for a pub garden to be vibey.

By the way, if you go at some place, like in Tokyo, they have an outdoor smoking ban, so you're not allowed to smoke on the street and they've got like these little smoking shelters, like you have in an airport, like a little smoking room. But you can smoke indoors. That's nuts. No, I don't want that. Those are my worst. I hate those smoking cubicles. They're so depressing. I know. It's like literally like the cubicle of death and you just look at all the people and you're like, am I one of you? Are we? Is this my gang? Oh, okay. Yes, it is. I've heard that it's at this time they're just looking at it and I hope it just stays.

Just look at it. Yeah, I hope it stays. It's just a window shop. But in all seriousness, smoking is bad for you. And I don't encourage it. I actually really don't. I don't want you to die. Yes, well, I don't want you to die. And there are health risks associated with smoking.

There are. They are the risk that Lily and I take. You can read all about them on every cigarette pack up and down the country in any newsagents or off-license. Well, I'm gonna go go and have a vag. No, I'm going to go. No, I'm going to go. I've got work to do. It was lovely to see you. I want to see you. I mean, sure. Sure. I've got writing to do. Next week's subject for Listen Bitch is balls of the testicular kind.

The testicular fashion. Can't wait. Can't wait. I have absolutely no idea what will be asked, which is how we like to play it. Edge of Sheep. I don't really know anything about balls except they get sweaty. No I didn't know. I don't think I do.

I might do a little bit of research. Should I do the origins of balls? The history of balls? I don't really want to do the history of balls. Okay, fine. I'll save you my finger. Off you Google. Just relax. It's not Google. Oh, okay. Well, then I'll see you after your quick trip to the British Library and we'll have a little chat. I'll give you 45 minutes to get there and back, yeah? I mean, I'll be in the anatomy section of the British Library, really, really brushing my knowledge up on this for everyone, for you and the world. So, OK, OK, bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver.

This is a Persephoneka production for BBC Sounds. People who knew me. A story about lies. You used a terrorist attack to run away from your mess and fake your own death. And love. Are you proposing to me? In the face of death. I'm Paul.

I'm six weeks in a chemo. And I have no eyebrows. An original drama for BBC Sounds. Yeah, something's up. Starring Rosamund Pike and Hugh Laurie. Happy death anniversary. People Who Knew Me. Listen on BBC Sounds.