Miss Me? - Full of So Many Feelings

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Jordan Stephens and Miquita Oliver discuss grief and grandparents and crying over driving tests.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes and discussion of bereavement and end of life care.Credits:Producer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Will Gibson SmithAssistant Producer: Caillin McDaidProduction Coordinator: Rose WilcoxExecutive Producer: Dino SofosAssistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine OkuefunaCommissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan HaskinsMiss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, it's Ray Winston. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4. History's toughest heroes. I've got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough. And that was the first time anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you?

Subscribe to history's toughest heroes wherever you get your podcast. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes and conversations around end-of-life care. Hello, hello world, hello, world. and welcome to this week's edition of Miss Me. Did you? Did you? Did you miss me? Yeah.

I was busy. I was watching Richard III on BBC Eye Player. All weekend? All weekend long. I mean those plays are historically quite long. Oh, see, I don't know whether you know this. So every Saturday afternoon on BBC 2 between midday and like three o'clock. I don't know it.

You've already lost me. I'm already not too. The midday and three o'clock, they play an old classic film. Like the other week it was the railway children, which I very much enjoyed. This week, I'm not sure what it was, but a few weeks ago it was Richard the 3rd,

so I watched it on I play it. And I was trying to explain to you there's a lot of gaps in my knowledge because of the periods of time that I didn't go to school. And so I use TV and books and film to educate myself about stuff that I feel like I miss

that was just standard learning in school. but what you're telling me is that fun shit like Richard the 3rd and his tenure and his journey aren't things you learn in school? No. I don't think so. A thought disclaimer,

I don't know if anyone from my school is listening but I may well have been taught about Richard the 3rd, I can't remember. All I remember was getting taught about the history of medicine, a few choice parts, you know, things in the 60s maybe. And then ultimately you got to take it as a GCSE.

Maybe I did take history as a GCSE actually. History is a GCSE, actually. GCSC. Wow, that would be fun. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to go on too much of a tangent, but the whole set up of school didn't work well with my brain and the way I approached this information. So, yeah, I struggled to retain a lot of what I was taught, but sure, Richard the 3rd, great. When was he about then? 17th century? I'd have to check. You just watched the fucking film. Who played Richard 3rd then? I'd have to check. What did he look like?

Well, okay, okay, I'll give you an easier one. So why is he, why is he a compelling character? Keats, are you having a laugh? I was just interested in sort of more I quite like films that were made in the 60s and 70s about the 16th and 17th century. Okay. Because there was quite a lot of focus on that time around. Yeah, we spoke about this.

You're into period stuff. I'm not really that interperiod stuff. It's too broad a term for you to say, A, period stuff and B, I'm not into period stuff. I'm not, I don't want you to limit yourself. I've watched some stuff. I love the favourite. Yeah, but that's, yes. No, listen, listen, look, in all seriousness.

Can I just say something? I'm more interested in, I'm just really interested in filmmaking. Have you watched The Graduate? When I say period, right? Yeah. I don't mean old films. I mean films set in earlier centuries where people are wearing corsets and shit. Okay.

I'm not talking about. It's good to know. So nothing in the 20th century. Nothing in the 20th century. Getting my head. isn't a graduate in colour? Yes! Yeah, yeah, sorry, no, just because you're talking about time now.

Obviously, a lot of period things are in colour too. Everyone makes like Jane Austen every five years, right, or whatever needs to... Like, you know, I watched Emma. I bet you did. Which one? Well, the recent one, because obviously... One with your ex in it. Yeah, she was in it, so I watched that.

That was great. God, there's so many things that you're saying that are tapping into things I was thinking. Let me just start with the graduate. Mike Nichols, bloody amazing director. And... The graduate's the one with Hoffman, right? Yeah, with Hoffman. Yeah, but Emma.

It is so modern, like the way it's shot and its ideas and its themes. So, like, Mekita, I agree with you about this. We're not in dispute about this era of cinema. That is a fantastic era. I mean, just there's a particular, I don't know why. At some point when I was younger, I did actually like stuff about like this country back in the day or other countries in a particular era. I was interested. But then I lost it.

Well, chuck your TV on next Saturday, around midday. and then it's really good because the BBC just tell you what you're going to learn about that day. Yeah, that's great. And you know what? Listen, I get it. And actually now I'm thinking about it, there are choice films that I think are actually dope.

And your grandparents, no, your grandfather and his twin brother were filmmakers. Yes, the Bolting brothers. They made, I'm all right, Jack. And Bright and Rock? The original Bright and Rock. With Richard Attenborough, watched a documentary about him the other day. God, that was good.

That was some good shit. But it's interesting that you're saying that you feel like your brain doesn't like work in the way that it would have... Yeah, I'm being like... I don't know, I'm just... Maybe I'm just in a mood this morning. I'm just... I feel a bit...

Listen, I'm in... I'm a bit unbalanced this morning, right? So I'm being like, I don't know... A bit defensive, a bit smoky! No, not defensive, yeah. Bit dismissive, woo! Just to try it on. But I just think...

I think my general point is if I was going to look for a particular, you know, era that's being documented or spoken about, that wouldn't be my one. Some people love, some people literally love anything, Atonement films set in that era again, Atonement was actually a really good film. Very good film.

But like, you know, it's not just, it's not what I'm looking for. It's what I'm trying to say. Totally get it. But when you're thinking about the way your brain works, there's this incredible series to show on BBC 2 at the moment called The Secrets of the Brain. He said, this is so interesting. The most complex object in the cosmos forged in a fire of planetary catastrophes, conflicts, death, sex and love.

Jim Al Kalili tells the epic story of how our brains evolved. So it's really great. It's not just about how the brain was made or the way it works. What a sell. Yeah, what a sell. It's about the way it's evolved through, like, you know, the way our brain has changed its way of using itself because of what's happened in the world around it throughout millennia.

Fuck yeah. And it had this kind of, I don't really know what the right word is, but it was just like showing you what your brain goes through just to pick something up. They used an apple. So just for me to go, that's a cup of tea, I'm going to have some.

I'm going to tape my arm, clasp it, bring it over, then open my mouth, take a sip, put it down, and still chat shit to you. That takes so many different things

talking to each other. So the idea, fuck off. So the idea that I have space to practice, like to retain information, for this fucking theory test, which is tomorrow. Oh, what?

I thought that was what I'm going to rinse you about. I thought you did it this weekend for fuck's sake. No, I was revising this weekend. I've just lost all confidence. Nothing will stay in my brain. I can't believe. I just don't understand. Actually makes me want to cry.

I don't understand what's wrong with me. Why can't I do this? I can't even revise. Makita, I adore you. You cannot cry over your driving theory test. You have to have some... Like, it's our responsibility. No, no, seriously, as human beings, it's our responsibility to know when to open and close our hearts respectively, right?

That's our thing. You have to hold a boundary here. Okay. Yeah, no fair. I cried after I failed my fourth driving test. Oh, okay. So crying within driving is okay. Makita, I failed my fourth driving test.

How were you with the theory? Practical test. Yeah, practically is a nightmare. I'm going to deal with that later. I've already failed three. how was your theory? Did you pass it first time? So check it.

I passed second time, but the first time doesn't count because I was, I took that right in the midst of, of my breakup with my ex and the word Amber was used a lot in the theory test. Oh my God.

Oh my God, that's such a head. Fuck. Okay, well, I'm all right. I don't have any exes called like Greenlight. I was rattled, or so I was a fucking nightmare. That's a fucking nightmare. Yeah, so the last time I did my theory, which would be the third in this,

the second run of me trying to pass my test, I was still living at my mum's and I was rattled and I just had an argument with my nan. Sorry, how many times you done the theory? First time round, it took me five times and then I passed, but then it ran out in COVID. It took you five times to do the theory test. First time around.

I'm now in my third time of second time. I changed my mind. You should, you could cry. I can cry. No, no, no, no. I'm being dead serious. That's actually, that's actually, are you doing manual or automatic?

Manual, bitch. Do automatic, please, for your own sake. No, I'm actually begging you. No, because the thing is, I'm actually really quite a good driver. And all that, the practical side, I think I've got down now. In the apocalypse, you go to me,

you go to your mum, we'll sort it. For the time being, get yourself a go-car and just shut up. you surely your car is automatic as well yes all of us manual drivers drive automatic it's bliss what you're talking about not doing a hill start are you kidding me i can just take my foot off the gas on a hill and it just stops the dream it is a go car it's the easiest thing to fucking do do automatic jade passed first time theory and practical yeah but theory is the same automatic or manual so let me just get this theory pass yes wow still got to know your signs maybe jade was second time actually I don't know.

Anyway, the point is, it's fine. A lot of it is just logic. You just have to calm down and don't overthink it. Yeah, totally, totally. How are you? Are you okay now that you've mentioned Jade? Because Ellie just went to me,

oh, Jade's tour looks crazy. I was like, right, so Jade's on tour and you're doing the play every night. When you said that, I thought something happened to Jade on tour last night the way you set that up. Do you mean that am I okay? She's a fucking pop star. Part of the job.

I'm not like freaked out that she's on tour. Good for you. Yeah, man. Look at you. I mean, obviously I'd like it if she was his. but I've got a, you know, I can smell her in the house, that's nice. And I'm going to watch her on Sunday. It's a lot.

She's very ambitious. This is what she loves. And she has thrown all of her crazy wild thoughts into the show. And she's constantly worrying that those thoughts haven't been actualised to the extent that she wants them to. But as always, the bar is so high for her that I think everyone's loving it. What? So she's got this issue with like, it's never enough because I've got this issue. She just has, like her imagination is vivid, you know, so she, I've literally got, I was telling you this before, you know, I've got this footage of her making her album that I've been trying to edit together.

I have an interview with her about two and a half years ago where she, she explains what she thinks the Angel of My Dreams video should be. And at that point she would have just left Little Mick. She hadn't released anything on her own yet. Like it was still kind of new territory. Yeah, before she'd gone solo properly. and it actually in the end, the Angel of Marjean's video was taken on by this amazing French director called Orb

but they still collaborated on it but she's managed to actualise all the other ideas she had for it in her performances, in a live performance in like live recordings of her performance she's still done it like she has these vivid images it's really cool and she fucking makes them happen so she's done it again on the tour

yeah yeah so proud of her can I actually sorry can I go back to something about the brain I just forgot I meant to say something right yeah that would really help me actually it'll take me into my next bit I don't know if it mentions this in the show because obviously the brain is mad complex and I've read I read a book about sapiens you know like the the whole growth of the human species and I'm pretty sure in that book they said that there's not an agreed understanding of why we have an imagination that blows my mind that actually

blows my mind of why the imagination exists because apparently what separated us from the other homo species that they were like I can't remember where it was now there's like Homo erectus and Homo something else and we became dominant firstly because we manipulated fire so we were like we were fucking with the elements which is obviously what the jungle book's about I guess and then the other thing is because

it was because we were able to lie that's what's so wild so so apparently an intelligent like chimp or monkey or whatever they can lie about something they've seen but we were the first species to lie about something that we hadn't seen. Do you know what I'm saying?

So they can be like, yo, if you don't give me this banana now, a tiger's going to eat you. And then they'll give the banana. But we'll go, if you kill everyone in that village, the tree god will bless your family for all in eternity.

Oh, okay. And we'll be like, oh, sweet. And so we were able to organise masses of people based off of fictional ideas, which, believe it or not, still reigns supreme today. I was going to say, I think it's one of the reasons that Britain came to be in such power. Like, we're tiny, tiny.

And we just, I think we just believed that we were powerful. No, that's just brute force. Do you know I was at a funeral last week. We had Stuart's funeral, Sam's husband. She's really good friends with Auntie Sandra and was my mum and Uncle Nick's agent years ago when Nick was like in the bill. And her husband is Stuart Preble, who was a hugely important man in all of us. our lives, but also had a hugely important career in television. I'll tell you a bit more about the funeral, but like I was thinking about what makes a life, what makes it valid, what makes it

important. And I think that there is... Wow. That's deep. Yeah, it's obviously quite a big question to ask yourself. But it comes up at a funeral. He would say a lot, and Sam said this in her speech, that he said it wasn't about the amount of cards you get. It's about how you play with the cards that you're dealt. Facts. Right? And that's sort of about what do you do? with every day. How do you live? Not just so confusing because obviously I have a lot of ambition.

You're saying, Jay does, so are you. So was Stuart. And he had this incredible career. But what I found from the way people were talking about him was not what he did. It's how he lived. And that wasn't about how long he lived. He was 74.

You know, that's a good amount of years. Of course, we did not need to lose him. But he did like, he worked. at Granada in the 80s and he did a show called World in Action and then he started his own production company and created grumpy old men. Do you remember it? Did you ever watch it? Oh, wait. Who's in it?

It was sort of like grumpy middle-aged men of the time so it was like Ozzy Osbourne and like Bill Nyee and Rick Wakeman. People like that. It's sort of like a state of the world kind of show. Are you saying he invented the podcast? He basically did invent a podcast. It was.

It was very, it was very, but you know what? It was at a time where talking head shows were quite big. But it became a franchise and then there was like three men in a boat and grumpy old women and grumpy Christmas and all this stuff. He's very good at making a franchise. He then moved in to do landscape artist of the year and portrait artist of the year. I did that. Oh yeah, I did portrait arts.

Did you do portrait? Landscape. It's fucking weird having your portrait. No, no, no. I competed in the landscape thing. I almost won. What, you painted? I painted.

Yeah, because I know you can paint. Well done, Jordan. Thanks, Miquita. Sorry, I competed and also I did sit as well as up there. You did sit. So you've done both? Sorry, sorry, please carry on. I don't know what I interrupted you then.

No, no, no, no, no. This is good because this is important to learn like, you know, about the work that Stewart's done and the fact that we've both been a bit part of it. Yeah, big time. The family have had a really hard time. Sam lost her son, Toby, to something called SADS, which is like a sort of like heart attack out of nowhere. The sudden death syndrome? No, no, no, no, no.

That shit rattles me, Makita. He was like 21, fit, healthy boy and he died in the shower. It was fucking scary. I have heard of this and I just, this is why, this is why spirituality is important because like how do you,

like literally how do you reckon with that? How do you reckon with that? Like there has to be belief and that that energy is immortalised or continued or rebirthed in another way because that's just, this is when you get existential and really have to question

how subjective morality is This is what I was going through at the funeral. I was like, I don't feel spiritual today because Stuart died and Sam already lost Hobie. And then Stuart's daughter, Sammy, had already died of cystic fibrosis like 10 years ago. It's just like, what the fuck are you putting this family through? Yeah. But then being there, it was like, where does peace come from when you lose someone that you love? And it's literally, it's just about like how lucky we are to have them in the first place, like life and love and everything that is left.

that has to, stories get so upset. It's such a strange day because it's full of so many different feelings. And, you know, Sam's mother was there who's like 90 and I was talking to her about it and she was like, she was like, but today we're talking about the fact that we had him, not that we lost him. And I think there's something about getting older.

Like, you know what I think as well? I always think the people that are older than me, including our parents, have done this before. I think that they've got old before and that they've lost all their friends before because they're older. This is all very new to them as well. My mum's not been in her 60s before.

She's not lost people. You know, I think because Sean died when they were so young, I thought my mum had sort of rehearsed loss. Rehearsed loss, yeah, man. It's not like that. That shit stays as you forever. No, no, no, no. And now that I'm 40, you know, you go to a funeral and it's like this other thing comes,

which is I will also be in a box one day. You know, that is there as well. When I was younger, I didn't think about that. I thought, God, this awful, this person's died. That whole death thing's a nightmare. It's like, no, now you know that it's part of you and everyone around you. It was a very strange day, but it was a beautiful day, and it was in this amazing place called Pembroke Lodge in Richmond.

It was truly beautiful place. And my mom guided the day. She was like the officiator, and she did an excellent job. And again, for my mom and Sam's friendship, suddenly you're being there for your friend in a way where you say, I will officiate your husband's funeral and I will hold you through that. That's the thing about friendship

and time spent together. It gets deeper. Things get deeper. We're going to go through these things, Jordan, but we're going to hold each other through these things. It was a fucking lot. It was a lot, but I was proud of us. We really, like, celebrated Stewart's life properly.

That's what I believe funerals, actually. Obviously, people are entitled to do funerals exactly how they'd like to, but I would hope that my funeral certainly are people close to me, would be a celebration of life rather than you know and the grief will come as part of that grief is something that connects us all yeah we all experience it you know I think I probably said this before because I'm always saying it but you know that quote that I took from that Uber

driver is the only two things promised in life for change and death you know it's tough because you have to feel pain and the level of grief is testament to the level of love felt you know we have to be brave enough to love someone so much that losing them will tear us into but in the knowledge that we will be able

to rebuild again, you know? That is so it. That is so how I felt actually it was like the furious love turns into this other thing and you have to try and find ways to hold that

obviously we can't do it on one day. This is a whole lifetime of learning to deal with Stuart not being here anymore but I've got him with me I've been lighting candles every day and I love that

Thinking of him. I love that. I love the ritual. I love the ancient ceremonial aspect of it. You know, I love the fact that the people live on infinitely in the memories of those who spent time with them. I love that. I love the fact that I can continue the existence of someone we loved

just by speaking about them openly and lovingly and remembering and lighting candles. Yeah. And there is a reason that you feel that they're all around during the ceremony of a funeral because there are all these people. at one time focused on this one person and you can feel all these memories

and all these different heads. And there's just no, that is the spirituality of life is that sometimes you just know. And at that moment you're like, he's with us because how could he not be? How can it not be? But I thought about life and having a good long life.

And my grandma's now like 88, Jordan. And I just spent six months living with her. And that was, you know, it was a trip. True multi-generational living, living with my mother and father who were in their 60s and then my grandma in their 80s and then Garfield's Goddaughter who's 28 and then me and my 40s, it was a real, it's a real free-for-all and three dogs in that house. I don't know about your relationship with your grandmas. Do you have both of them still? No. Neither of them. Yeah, I lost both my grands in my early

20s and it was the turning point, one of the first turning points, accepting the loss of them was one of the big turning points for me in terms of my like journey towards becoming a man, I'd say. Or certainly a more mature version of myself. When I went through that breakup, you know, whatever, eight years ago now, the morning after it happened, actually the thing that hit me the most was the fact that I hadn't even processed that I'd lost my grand, my Caribbean grand who had like a big influence on my love for writing in poetry

and she taught me my time's tables and she had this little flat in Finchley. and I went at a funeral I completely intellectualised the whole thing What do you mean? Well I just went there and I was like Yeah she's old You know makes sense She's dead that she's old

It happens you know When you get old you die And you know that's it My dad was in pieces I'd never seen my dad so sad I'd never seen them cry that much And I just didn't I just kept it moving

And after that breakup It was like this dam had burst And I was like This little me, you know, and a lot of people talk about the inner child, I'm a firm believer in needing to connect to that. And the little me was like devastated. And I'd never seen or spoken to that little version of me. I hadn't considered how he'd feel. But actually that space in Finchley with my times tables and apple stew was maybe the safest I felt as a child, you know, because

that's the thing about grandparents or people in that, in a grandparent's position. If you're lucky, That is a place of safety because it's just a step away from your parents. There's nothing against your parents. Parents doing the best they can, but they have to do all the difficult, annoying jobs. And then you get to the grandparent and they're just kind of fun and soft and slow. And they are the perfect carer for a young child because their qualities almost offset the qualities of a hyperactive, loud, boisterous or restless child. They're slow, calm, patient, full of stories. and warm you know if you're lucky so yeah it was it broke me and I I cried a lot and I managed to

process that and then of course I remembered my British grand and that was a whole different story because she had dementia and I watched her deteriorate and that was really tough because she forgot who I was while I was alive and that was really hard because I'd never experienced that before she didn't know who I was when I saw her and see I've I've not experienced the severity of that Nanny's mind is going and I could feel it and being around her every day. Again, like I was saying with the parents getting older, I keep thinking Nanny's like, she's old,

like she knows this kind of stuff's going to happen. No, she's still scared and confused and frustrated. That's what I found so difficult to be around. I didn't know she'd be so frustrated. I thought she'd be more accepting because of her age. But she's a human being. She doesn't want to feel like she's losing anything. Yeah.

but she's mad on her crosswords like that's a deep thing to her that keeps her mind yeah yeah no but it's that was a big that was a big bonding between me and my my like white grand and I just wanted to say a couple of things about it my Caribbean grand

one thing that was absolutely gorgeous about her final years was that she retained an absolute like she looked she couldn't know where she was what the date was She knew me, which I feel so blessed for, but she could remember poems and songs for when she was a girl.

And she would sing and recite these poems and songs and burst into this smile like almost until the day she died. And that reinstated my passion for having a society that welcomes and encourages creative output. Because if that, after everything a person has been through, 90 years on this planet, the one thing that the brain will not, to go back to your former point,

will store and cherish is art. Yeah. Like that's, that is incredible to me. You know what? When I was, that's so interesting, you say that because when I was living with Nanny,

I was, obviously I'd gone through a lot and so I was watching a lot of kind of like old films to make me feel safe and inspired and also a lot of documentaries. And what I brought to Nanny was like a return. to curiosity because when your mind is leaving you you go to safe spaces like detective shows and her quiz shows but i was watching a lot of like like i watched hello dolly this like because it was

on on saturday afternoon on BBC too and it's a barbous rise on film and nanny was like oh okay oh okay and then she's like hello dolly and i was like how do you know every fucking word and she was like it was hello dolly and she couldn't believe that she knew every word still so we started I'm watching that Saturday afternoon film every Saturday. And she knew every word to most songs in those classic films. And she surprised herself. I love that. That shit is stored in, that's a part of the brain you can't go near.

It's just like vault. It is. Yeah, it's incredible. And I was lucky to have that with my Caribbean grand. Obviously, it wasn't quite the same with my British grand. And that was a whole other thing. I mean, what I discovered when writing my book, I'd basically vaulted a memory of my grand.

And I've reopened it when I was. writing the book and I don't really know how I put it in a kind way but when I was a teenager watching her deteriorate I used to fantasize about ending that pain for her oh my goodness I used to wish I could make a choice or come to an agreement because it was heartbreaking all that was happening was everybody around her was devastated because she struggled to remember any anyone. And her entire, pretty much her entire life savings just went on her being comfortable whilst she deteriorated in a really expensive residential home. I mean, most of them are expensive. And it was like, again, I say that with, I was young when I thought this. You know,

I don't, I don't understand the complications and, you know, the reasons why the laws were in place. I know that Esther Ranson has done a campaign that I think she's almost succeeded in getting across some kind of six-month law passed, you know, to avoid people being in extreme pain with terminal conditions. There's a lot of work going on right now with that, isn't there? The terminally ill adults bill, which has been passed in the House of Commons now. I personally am in agreement, but it is definitely not without its controversy. So under the proposals, mentally competent terminally ill adults in England and Wales

with a life expectancy of less than six months would be eligible for an assisted death. right okay it's quite specific isn't it you know what I mean it's very complex but I just know all I'm talking about as a disclaimer this is a completely you know raw like not thoroughly thought out feeling and emotion I know I had

because I wrote about it I wrote about it when I was 20 years old that being the most loving thing I could do for my grand at a time when she didn't know who I was but what a thing to hold is such a young person a thought like of that level Because it was my attempt to cope with the grief. Yeah, I think if it was Nanny going into her 90s

and things got rapidly worse, it'd be an unbelievably difficult thing to go through. But I do want to just to, yeah, it would. And just to go back to a light and like, because I do love this conversation at Intergenerational Living. That is obviously an extreme case and it happens a lot and it's really difficult to deal with and there's loads of beautiful films and stories

and documentaries about people who have gone through it. But for those who aren't suffering with that, the multi-generational thing is brilliant and I really want us to remember as a society how beautiful the relationship is between the elders in our society and especially when we are welcoming in offspring or new children and young people

and having that ability to be able to ask questions and help and care and the elders in our society have been the reason why we're here and we should respect that. Did you feel that? Fuck yeah. There's so much because my 96th,

year old Uncle John, who actually lives right near me now, would come over every weekend. 96 year old. 96 Uncle John is. And you best believe he gets dressed every morning. This man is fly. You know, my grandma has lived in Barry St. Evans in Suffolk for 50 years. She now lives with my mum in East London. My Uncle John can go see his sister.

And we have this incredible picture called The Twelve. I know. And the 12 is just this picture that on a whimsy, a whimsy. thought one of the brothers said someone's going away here someone's going Jeanette and Maria are going to England let's get everyone together and just do a big picture and it's like you know the picture of our lives

and it's called the 12 the 12 and Uncle John has lost all the brothers he's the last remaining brother and then it's my grandma bar one sister every other sister's alive once you get them going they cannot stop and they can remember surnames of best friends in like 1942 they can remember

teachers names they can remember playground songs Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's insane. It's like, what, that part of the brain is a fucking trip. Les, you know what? I think this is a perfect time for us to go to a break, Makita. I think life is long enough for us to take a break. Or your new nickname is Parakeets.

Oh, how about Power Keats? No, no, no, Power Keats. Little Green Bird. Little green bird. Hello, it's Ray Winston. I'm here. to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's Toughest Heroes. I've got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

And that was the first time anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to Miss Me Hello What I wanted to say was Norma, Jade's mum She comes to stay with you

She has her own part of the house She has, yeah, well she has the room that she stays in Yeah, so it's painted in her favourite colour Isn't it purple? Yeah That's her favourite colour I was talking to Jade Norma is Yemeni

Egyptian So they emigrate to South Shields Crazy It's not crazy because it's a It's a harbour. Yeah, it's docs. That's how it was. That's the story.

Norma, yeah, half Yemen and half Egyptian, grew up as an Arab woman in Shields. And it was pretty hardcore, the stories, you know. I fucking bet. And when she comes to stay, do you cook for her? No, Norma cooks when she stays. Okay. She cooks for herself.

She knows what she wants to eat. Well, she's just like, she's a feeder for a start. To a fault. To a fault, in my opinion, especially with the grandkids that she's got. It's like she just fucking loves fattening these fuckers up, mate. Oh my God. And I'm like, Norma, I'm telling you,

if me and Jada to have children, you're keeping that fucking yum yum away from them, otherwise I'm kicking off. Isn't the job of a grandma to just fatten up the ground kids? Yeah, everyone says this shit. Yeah, it's apparently, it's there, but she's great. Wait, do you watch telly with her? I love watching telly with Norma.

Yeah, but Norma's anantu children. She's not an answer to us. She's not, she's, she's, she's, she's, she is, she absolutely loves reality television. It is hilarious and wonderful. Oh my God, that's perfect. And she loves watching it and then we gossip about it. And then, you know, like I kind of, there was a stint I did on Big Brother late in life, which was, um, it ended up being quite a lot.

But if I'm honest, a lot of the reason why I took it was because I knew normal would be watching enough, what would be funny. And also I got to work with a producer that I loved and, and there was, were moments in it, which were great. No, no, no, it was. It was just, I just, well, that's a whole other, that's a whole other topic to talk about. But, uh, it was, it was fun. It was fun because I'm quite, we're both quite cutting with our opinions on these

things. So, so we enjoy just going back and forth about it. Norma loves being a contrarian in terms of reality television. If there's someone who's disliked, Norma loves them. That's, oh, right. Yeah. Why do grandparents love to be contrary? Norma's a grandparent to the children.

She's not our grandparent. Sorry. Elders then. It's not the equivalent of you watching it with your nana. It's not the equivalent. No, no, but my nan loves to be contrary. I'm like, you just said this, she likes to contradict herself. Or maybe she just changed it.

Generationally as well, I just think they're just, this is a generalisation here, but I'm going to go ahead and say it. I think for some people in a certain generation, they are confused by the level of sensitivity that we're, that we are approaching things with because they were just never granted that as children. So they're like, why the fuck is everybody making such a fuss about this? Like, just get home of it. That's really interesting.

Yeah, when we watched this documentary about when we were making the Caribbean show, we watched this piece of footage from the 1950s that Britain had made about Antigua. And it was like, come to this lovely island. And it was very condescending and undermining and, you know, just depressing and upsetting. And me and mum were furious. I can't believe it. How would they put this out about our island? Aren't you angry?

And my nanny was like, we didn't have the luxury to be angry about things like this. You're trying to survive, you're trying to get through, you're trying to just, yeah, literally just try and live in this oppressive society. They're hardened, genuinely hardened. Hardened, yeah. She's like, you have the luxury to be all fucking upset about it. We didn't. Anyway, no, I wanted to know what you watch with her because I was watching a lot of Netflix documentaries as well because I fucking love them. God, they do them well.

They really do a documentary well. And it's the new trajectory, Jordan. It's the new Strictly Come Dancing maybe. What is? Like, it is the new way to get a big old boost on this. I love what you're saying. I'm going to need your, I need to see your working out before I can give this a grade.

Okay. So I watched quite a lot of like the older ones, like Quincy, which is so well made and made by his daughter. And then obviously the Wham one was great. I loved the Wham one. Me and Garf watched that one. The Kanye one was excellent, the three-parter.

Are these all on Netflix? Yeah, man. The Nina Simone one I loved. but of course then we have the Beckham one which was a real moment of remember Beckham's legacy I don't know what he was trying to do off the back of it but it definitely cemented

or resemented how important he is to us as a country the Victoria Beckham one that's out now it was great it was really well made for me obviously I'm entrenched in business information at the moment so watching her talk about her business honestly she nearly loses it Jordan Beckham's bankrolling her

she nearly loses her entire bit it's the fucking Did you not know that? Yeah, but I thought it was just bullshit in the sun. She was like 13 million in debt or something. It's crazy. I know. And she actually brings it back.

She fucking brings it back. Tenacity. She's a tenacious bitch, Victoria Beckham. She fucking is. And also it was great because you get to be reminded of the 90s, which I always love. 90s was the best era in history. I really believed that. I must also be said that take that were the originators.

Oh, five, you're not. Oh, five they did it. So they do a documentary. Is that Barlow? Yes, he's in that band, yes. And Owen. That comeback was flames, bro. No, not amazing, right? Because they do this documentary, which is, again, probably just about their legacy

because they haven't got their power back yet. So about their legacy, then they do a tour, greatest hit. Then they do an album of news songs. And I guess that's the album with like Rule the World on it and shit. Then they're powerful again. And that's gone on for like 20 years. They're still powerful. I do hate that.

song. But there was something around that time that I did love. But good for tape that because I remember like tail end of pop world interviewing like Mark Owen about his new album and him coming to Tifa on the beach and stuff and he was like a joke. And it wasn't nice. People that should have big music documentaries to Lily. Didn't Lily have one? A Lily documentary would be fucking amazing. Wouldn't that be fucking great? When they're done well, I think it's brilliant and you know I think like not just on Netflix. I know Billy Irish documentary on Apple was brilliant and it was so fascinating because that wasn't looking back at a legacy that was actually documenting a very young woman's rise to like at one point the zenith of pop stardom like I kid you not right the genius

of Billy and Phineas is that they're both in the same flat they fucking grew up in in LA it's weird the parents are bizarre in the best way and you can tell that there's something crazy that's created this family right Phineas is unbelievably talented and so is Billy but anyway Billy Elish is in a bedroom with Phineas where they make their music in this place in L.A. somewhere and the record label come in these two execs

or whatever the fuck they might have been not even not even execs. She literally does a live PA performance of Bad Guy which goes on to be arguably one of her biggest singles and they sit

they stand motionless at the door and she's like so what do you think? They're like yeah it's cool. The fuck's wrong with you guys. She's just performed bad. Oh my God. It's like it pains me.

me. It's like just and this is what blows my mind is this is in L.A. In L.A. is supposed to be full of delusional people who tell you the best thing in the world. They're supposed to tell you, oh my God, that's literally the best song I've ever heard. Yeah, they should be blowing smoke

up her ass, yeah. So these guys are stood at the door and I'm just like, you know what? Fuck you lot, man. Like, I'm glad that Billy goes and does that thing because it's like, you guys are, I can't stand people in and around artists like that. It really pisses me off. What, trying to be overly cool and kind of underplay it all?

look yes and I am and while we're on it I can say I've got video proof that people around Jade are not like that and I'm very grateful for it and trust me but trust me I would fucking say something if they were and I have done Jake can back me on that I know JD's got a good team that's very fucking important wait there was something I wanted to say to tie this up no that's it oh yeah speaking of Lily Allen she gave me really handily she reminded me why we weren't on MSN why in response to that conversation we had the other day. Also, I do remember us maybe briefly setting up MSN purely so that we could communicate with Mike Skinner. Just putting that out of there. Yo, man like Mike Skinner, you know, legend. That's fucking unbelievable. Okay.

There's that meme on the internet where it go, it's actually really misogynistic, but it's just funny in this context because it's like, she's for the streets. Anyway, let's end this. We'll see you next week for ListenBitch. The theme is addiction. That's it?

Addiction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're trying something a bit different. We're going to start to tell you what next week's ListenBitch theme is today. I know it's mental. It's nuts, we know. Wait, so what's next week's Listen Bitch? I don't know.

You're going to have to think of it. What, right now? Yeah. I think it should be boredom. Let's whack out boredom. Because what's the way? case no one says anything i think it's good no i'm going with it all right so officially i'm announcing that next week's listen bitch theme is makita boredom boredom is boredom

it's boredom sounds abstract but once you realize all the things that bore you i'm sure you'll have plenty of things to say and all the things you do because you're scared of being bored boom send your voice notes to this WhatsApp number oh 8304090 all right we will see you then the number to call is 08,000, 3040, 90. Not to call. To text on WhatsApp. No, to a voice note, brother, even. Okay. Love you. Love you. Bye.

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