Miss Me? - Has Festival Season Turned to Dust?

Episode Date: August 13, 2026

Have you ever been visited by an incubus? The sleep sirens come out to play as Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss the effects of insomnia, and how sleep paralysis has haunted them both. And as we slide into another heatwave, they take in the changing dusty landscapes of some festivals, while also celebrating the best vibes of partying in queer spaces.Producer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Katie-Louise Buxton Video Editor: Danny PapeProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Ellie Clifford & Dino SofosMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Miss Me in this hot summer. It's hot heat wave Miss Me. After today, I'm actually going on holiday. I'm not going anywhere, but I'm having a break. So I'm just going to immerse myself in the world of Miss Me today with you, Jordan, because then you really will miss me. So hold on, you're saying, in this Miss Me, I'm really going to be involved because I'm running away from it. Yeah, I'm running far away. You know what it is? This is your cheat meal. Cheat meal. You're having your final like...

Burger. Yeah, do I mean? A big ass plate of chips. Fish and chips before you're going on like a, you know, diet or whatever. But I'm not. What I feel like is I'm about to go and eat burgers every day. Oh, sorry. It's the opposite.

It's the opposite. Yeah, it's the opposite. That's weird. It's your final bit of health before you're being consciously unhealthy. Yeah. No, I've really thought about it. Everyone was like, do you want to go away anywhere? you want to like, you know, leave the country.

And I was like, no, I really don't. I want to stay here. Oh my God, are you going to Cornwall? I might go to Cornwall. Oh, fucking hell. Everyone's obsessed with Cornwall. For fuck sake. It does look gorgeous.

Even Cornwall is going to be a broken, droughty husk of its former self. Because nowhere in London looks good right now. No, stop, stop. Are you talking about the dead yellow grass straw? Yeah. And now that it's like festival season. The apocalypse. Yeah, my friend Maddie went to a festival in Burgess Park in South London at the weekend.

And she said all that, because everything is so burnt out, it is literally like dust. Like everyone's walking around with like scarfs around because it's. Yeah, like Mad Max. Like Mad Max. Like the end of the house. It's literally like, you know, Glastonbury's going to have to have a fellow decade or fallow decade or whatever the fuck. This is like insane. There is a dystopian energy to this summer.

And now that festival season is really in swing, I can kind of feel this, we're on the edge of the end of the world, but also we are alive. I don't know. It just all feels quite extreme this summer, the summer of extremes, yeah. I think it's a world of extremes right now. Yes, that's true. Have you actually been to any festivals this summer? Yes, I've performed at four.

Oh. Yeah, you did. Yeah, you did. You did extremely well. Which ones were they then? Because there's so fucking many now, I don't know. Yeah, Bella Drum in Scotland, went to Why Not Festival, Derbyshire,

did a truck festival in Oxfordshire. I think I've heard of truck festival, actually. I really realised this summer I just don't go to festivals. I don't. You don't like camping. It's not about camping. I just, you know what I realised it is? Because there was a festival last weekend called Houghton

that Silliman went to, and Ellie's husband Kieran went to and someone else. I went to and it's 24-hour music and it's pretty intense. Sounds it. And what it... Like 24-hour techno. Like, killed me. Is it like a three-day festival where no one sleeps?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone was doing like double roll-throughs. I was like, fucking hell. But what it reminded me of is that like kind of monotonous, consistent dancing on the spot. That's what I can't do anymore. It's not about camping. It's that kind of like, one spot. Love that.

That, I can't do that. That's my favorite thing. It doesn't bring me joy. I know you love it. That I have found an intense love for as a result of being sober. Yeah, I know you're brilliant at it. In your sobriety. Really, that music takes you.

I love it. Since being sober, that's the bit I like because you get into like a trance state and then you're like, and then I get into a trance state and then it's like I feel like kind of out of body. It's nice. Oh, God. You probably would have. light out and then with its 24-hour gabber i'm down for that kind of experience now that that that's something that's been unlocked for me rather than being in kind of like mutual i felt like i was maybe

part of like a shared annihilation you know before where it's like especially with like repetitive beats you know if you're on like a particularly euphoric thing that's illegal you would be like whoa for example I took a pill at a festival back in a day and went to see FK Twigs and it was like a living nightmare. I literally couldn't have thought of anything worse than Twigs on a pill. I was like, where is the next snare or...

Like, where's the kick jump coming? Oh, you, like, you needed it to break. I don't know where the rhythm is. I don't know what she's... I don't know where she is. She's like contorting. I don't know what... Anyway, it was a nightmare.

Yeah. Twigs is a very fascinating person. person and happens to have one of my favourite music videos all time actually but I would not recommend it's like art isn't it she's just like an art thingy this this is this is it's not like trance state you're observing her performance absolutely you're watching her look for all the thinkers where are they where are they what about we out here that's the job everyone loves that one that one everyone bangs on about we out here Everyone loves it.

Did you see Lily headline Boardmasters? No, I did not. But Boardmasters is fun. Wait, did I do that last year? I've got to say an apology to Boardmasters. I thought Boardmasters, right, was like 30 skater kids and surfer kids just like fucking around. And I thought it was going to be like daytime. In the like Lily was headlining Pyramid Stage.

I was like, okay, it looked incredible. Is Boardmasters, where is it? Cornwall. Yeah, yeah, we performed there last year. It's beautiful, really beautiful festival. And Lily just, the show really transfers well to festivals. And I didn't know whether it would. It looked.

She made that shit look classy. Well done, Lil. Big up Lil, a boardmaster's. Yeah, yeah, it's fun. I think we were second headline to Nelly Fittardo. By the way, like, if you were thinking, Nelly Fittado, how's she going to relate to a Gen, Alpha Gen Z audience? Very well.

Everyone knew, I'm like a bird. How do you know that song? you were not even born. What? Fucking out. That's like that came out when I was like 16. Makeda. I'm watching like 16 year olds.

I'm like a boy. It must be TikTok. We're going to take this moment to give you a quick reminder about Patreon. A new world for me. My friends keep telling me it's huge and popular, but I don't really understand it yet. It's Mahusive. It's Mahusive.

And now we're part of the massive Patreon world. And we were asked, What we wanted our Patreon world to look like, and we decided on a library, because I'm a huge fan of libraries in real life. And building a sort of metaphysical one has been a total joy and delight. Big up, I'll miss me library. Come check it out. Tell us a bit about what people can find in the library, Jordan. Cultural things we love and enjoy. Hmm. Hmm. We haven't done any art yet. We should do pieces of art.

I didn't know you could do that. Yeah, man. You could put some Rembrandt in if you wanted. I like that we go to all. all different places and try to give you an array of many, many, many, many things. It's a whole adventure. It's a journey. Now, we can talk about what my real festival is, which is Carnival. I'll talk about it now because I'm going to go away for two weeks, and when I come back, I will have just been to Carnival. I will too have been to Carnival.

Yeah, yes, are you coming? Yeah. Okay, great. On the Monday, though, weirdly, which is weird for me. I normally do the Sunday, but I'm doing a Monday this year. Sorry, I'll be there both days. That's great, because you and I historically, we've actually carnivaled quite a few times together, haven't we? Have we?

I don't think we have. I have photo evidence of me and you having a great time at carnival. Yeah, well, and Mables, right? Or nannas, rather. And nannas. Yeah, yeah, a bit of Mabels. And then we bumped into each other on Goldbourne. And then we did a little run around.

Oh, we got the cut through Chris of Garfield. Thank you. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. We've had some time. Oh, I also did. I also was in attendance. You don't remember this because I wasn't famous yet.

but I was in attendance of when Garfield did an outside the front house sound system. I remember whose house it was. I felt like it was for Bobby. When he was managing Bobby Cray, he put on a stage in front of a fucking house. That's right, he did. Oh, my God, he did. Westbourne Park Road outside of Phil Legg's house. You're right.

I was there, by the way. That was a vibe. I was there. Just want to let you know. Jesus, you were a child. Well, this year, My wonderful father who were talking about my stepfather Garfield is doing a carnival party and he hasn't done one since that stage. Yeah.

Whoa. I'm doing the thing. I'm on a stage of toddler. I'm doing a steed factory. Well, I'm not doing it. I'm just there. It's like he's got a sound system. It's going to be dope.

Carnival is a very important part of our lives. Like I've grown up with carnival on my doorstep. And I think if you grow up with it on your doorstep, we're talking about Notting Hill Carnival, obviously. I don't think you really understand what a, you know, a critical. crazy thing that is to have every summer just completely take over the area that you live in. Yeah. And I was watching some old BBC archive footage of like 8792 Carnival. Fuck me!

In the old days, the systems were on the streets till it was dark. So you'd be out. Carnival is so great. I just really want to like, last year, it was just like, oh man, you know, you kind of, the new one my system by Westbourne Park Station is frustrating as hell. But outside of that, like, you just pick a spot. Like, this is what's happened, what's shifted of age. Like, here's some carnival highlights.

Firstly, when I was a little kid, I caught a bubble on a Sunday, and a bubble popped in front of me, and it made me really sad because I didn't realize that things I loved could disappear, so immediately. That was a big life lesson for me at Carnival. Also, check this out, right? I misremembered something. So I remember I was at Carnival,

and I saw a man in front of me wearing my favourite football top, which was the Senegal, 1998 football jersey, right? Obviously, Carnival's a Caribbean celebration, but I mean, by extension, I don't think people would be fuming with someone wearing a Senegal top, right? So it's got the colours.

That's what I love, but it has like red, white, red, yet green and gold, like under the arm. It's so sick. Anyway, I thought that I asked him for this top and he, and then he offered it, right? He said, here, have it, like, off his back. and then me and my mum were like, no, no, you don't have to. I misremembered it.

He gave me the fucking top. I literally, my mum, unloaded. She was like, oh, I don't know if you are interested in this. Unloaded every football top I've ever owned in my life. She had them in a bag, right? So it's like tiny Arsenal tops from me like this big. It's bigger, bigger, bigger, right? Like this.

And then this, I pulled out to Senegal top. Your life through Arsenal top. Yes. And I was like, no way you have this. I thought he never gave it to me. And she was like, no, he did. He either did or I bought what a rep. I don't know, but the point is my memory is that like that was the level of love in the carnival.

Everybody, I hate what the paper is trying to do to carnival, this whole thing. Oh, it's all that. Absolutely. It's like the love is amazing. Pure love. Like anything, there's going to be people get, I mean, on a Monday evening, yeah, people get a bit, they're drunk too much, gets a bit whatever. There are some, you know, there will be some crossover of things, right? But like, moreover, bro, you just pick a stage, you have a little vibe.

People are there with their family. Most people leave it about seven, like it's chill. People turn up there at five. In AM, by the way, we have to talk about that. They fight to do the, what's it called? Yeah. Ma, ma, ma, ma, ma. Oh, it's Juveir.

No, that's not what I'm talking about. Yeah, Juveh is what I'm talking about. Opening of the day. So this is at 6am. It's the first procession. And then you have like, you know, that's where like the families are really out. And then sometimes you get like the paint thrown over you. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool,

But it's a beautiful street party in an area of London that has been completely gentrified and changed. And the fact that every year it gets to go back to the spirit of what this area has been and meant to people for the last 50, 60 years. And the Raras love it. Yeah, absolutely the Toffs come to. The young Raras love it. The olders don't. But the young Raras are living their best life. They bring their balloons and their party out.

balloons, they're painting their face. Do you know what I mean? Carnival's for everyone. Carnival for everyone. Yeah, like. So these are my, these are the highlights that I'm looking forward to over the kind of, you know, last heady weeks of summer. And this heat wave has come back.

Like, you're either a complainer or an embracer. I'm very much an embracer. I don't think we'll ever forget this insanely intense firehorse. No one told us that the reason it was going to be a firehorse is because the actual world would feel like it's on fire. Like it's been a fiery summer and we're in those heady last few weeks of it. I don't like what the heat's done to the grass. It makes, it does make me feel apocalyptic. But I'm cool with the heat. It's just maybe not here. Like I'm just, I'd rather go somewhere where the land itself is acclimatized to it. So I don't have to feel

like I'm in kind of some, yeah, like in Mad Max. But you said that you said that it is affecting your sleep or are you just getting insomnia anyway? Listen, I don't know. There might be multiple reasons. I can sleep in heat. I'm actually fine with that. No. The fun thing about my insomnia is that there haven't been any immediate reasons for the bouts I've had. One bout, okay, sorry, that's a lie. The first bout, no reason. Second bout, I was beginning rehearsals for the play and I got in my head about something. So I can, I can, I can like get insomnia from extreme anxiety.

But the time when insomnia was really, really rattled me was the first time I ever got it because I've always, known that in fact McKenzie often jokes about the fact I can sleep anywhere right I've always sleep is like

calm to me like I've I can just hit the pillow you know like and just go out gone five minutes normally I'm not one of these people who overthinks at night

I actually wake up and overthink everything I get hit with anxious thoughts first thing in the morning but but yeah I had this bout of insomnia two years ago when I was on a job in Cyprus it was bizarre and

it was was when I say insomnia as well, I don't mean like an hour, two hours sleep. I mean, I literally didn't get a wink of sleep. And when I get insomnia, because of the amount of adrenaline that's in my body, I can't, well, I can, but it's really hard to sedate myself. So I, so when, so for example, I've had insomnia through like NyQuil, melatonin, uh, meditation. Like, I've watched films. Well, these are the things you did to counteract. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, in a moment. Yeah, yeah. Like I can't, I've had insomnia through diazepan before.

Jesus, Jordan. But I suppose what happens is the panic, because I don't really get, I've never really had it. I'm just looking up properly what it is. Like hard to fall asleep, stay asleep or cause you to wake up too early. I don't think I've really suffered from this. But I do have that thing where if I can't sleep,

if I have to be up really early, then the panic of it getting closer to this earlyness. Fucks everything. Does that play a part in it as well? Yeah, so that can be, yeah. So that's the next, in my experience, that was the next stage. So the first stage was like, was so during this job, basically, I slept once every two days for like a week.

And I was trying to figure out what I could do to sleep, basically. So I was trying to cut like any kind of stimulant out of my diet. Like, and I almost, I managed to get somewhere, I think, with peppermint tea at certain points and stuff. but basically I'll be up for two days and I'll be so exhausted by the second day that I would just go to sleep. But I was trying to like go on runs or do exercise or it was just really remarkable. It felt like it was beyond explanation because my life was all right. I wasn't like going for any particular stress.

No one passed. No one like. But that's the scariest shit when you don't, when there's just no rhyme or reason. Yeah, but then. Something is very clearly happening. Yeah. But then what I did do was bank the memory of being that tired. Even though I was like, wow, I can actually do hold days with no sleep, which is

terrifying. But I banked, because even when I did drugs, I would sleep. I'd pass out. So like I could, I bank the eye, the feeling of not sleeping. So then like, then the next year, I remember I was at Hey Festival and you do these like, you stay in big houses with other authors and stuff when you stay there. People like offer up their homes. It's really sweet. And so I was there and I was thinking, you know, the thought enters your mind. Like, wouldn't it be rubbish if I had this massive talk tomorrow and I couldn't sleep before it. And then and then it'd be like, boom. Like, uh, power of thought. I then would, I then adrenaline goes, I feel it. My body, like, goes to my body, bang, wide away.

And yeah, it takes a lot, if anything, to get me back. So I kind of have to just power through. Yeah. But can I just say for, as a positive thing, that was two nights ago that I had that. And I didn't freak out. I was like, okay, I can do this. And then last night it was fine. I had a hot bath, popped a couple of magnesium.

And I was okay. I actually had an eight hour sleep last night. So I wasn't, yeah. So it wasn't like a thing where it was a phase again. But I did have a deep, I did develop a deep empathy for people who have like chronic insomnia or are relying on sleeping stuff because it is like, so when I had it before the play,

I went two days again. Obviously my performance in rehearsals was worse because I wasn't sleeping. I've also had to go on live television before with no sleep. And it's kind of like. Surreal. Yeah. And then I made the grave error of Googling, like, what does it mean if you don't sleep two nights in a row?

And it said that you might be having a manic episode. Oh, my God. So I was like, I think I threw various means, like literally went, I did all the things. And I forced myself into sedation, which isn't ideal. Well, I mean, I think it's, I think sleep's such a precious thing, isn't it? It's such an important part of, you know, because Moon just had her baby. And when I met her, when she came to Phoebe's birthday two weeks later, she looked like a mad woman. And it was based on no sleep.

Oh, you can ruin people. She was like, I haven't slept. And I was like, right, okay. But what's terrorized me in sleep, not insomnia? But I did used to have this thing, which I was trying to explain to you the other day. And I think I said night terrors, right? Yeah. But it wasn't night terrors because I've looked it up and I looked it up when it was happening.

Sleep paralysis. It's sleep paralysis with an addition of a succubus visitation. Okay. Do you want to tell what I'm saying? Sorry, I can only think of, like, plants that don't need much water. No, no, no. How do I explain a succubus? It's like a kind of, you know, gremlin.

Oh, yes. Wait, was it a black figure with red eyes? No, no, no. Okay, this is just my version of it, right? It happened at my nan's house about 10 years ago. No, 15 years ago. And then it started happening when I moved back into my mum's after bankruptcy and I was in the spare room.

happened a lot. So I imagine stress might be a huge part of it. It hasn't happened for about, oh my God, five years, but I fear it returning. That's not that long. And what it was, Jordan, I cannot explain how fucked up this was. So it's sleep paralysis. You wake up and if you try and get out of the sleep,

sorry, you half wake up. If you try to get out of the sleep, it's like having G-Force. Yeah, yeah. I've had sleep paralysis. Yeah. Fuck a duck. I hate that, right? But then what you have, ah, a succubus is a female demon.

It was the male version. then Incubus, thank you. Is that why that band are called that? Oh, Incubus. Yeah, Incubus. Are you in? It's so much better when any... Sorry.

But anyway, right, so what I would feel was a beast, a male-like beast that I would never see the face off. I would feel him behind me. And he had a furry hand with long nails. And he would breathe in my ear. And it felt very like I was about to be sexually attacked. and he would get his long fingernail and just draw it down my arm very, very slowly, whilst breathing in the back of my ear with me inside screaming to be let out.

It's the worst ever. It's the worst thing that's ever happened in my sleep life. And there's nothing you can do about it. And I can hear my mum sometimes walking in the hallway. It's like you can hear outer life. Yeah. So what is that? Is that real?

What do you mean? Like it's not a real fucking. demon coming into my life. So what is that? It will be, well, I'm not, again, my guess would be like it's, it's, it's, uh, I'd like to know Jordan's opinion. It's like a representation, isn't it?

It's a representation of, of like a, a, a deep set, feeling, fear, emotion. Like, I wonder all the time. I actually wrote a story when I was in school about, about, um, dreams, uh, which was, ended up not being far off, I guess, Monsters Inc.

But like, it's like, but the idea that, you know, anxiety dreams are fascinating to me because are they actually motivational? You know, when I was a kid, I had a really happy disposition, but I used to dream, like nearly every night when I was a kid, I would dream that I would have nightmares and I'd have to die in the nightmare to wake up. What kind of death stiv do you have? All types of death, literally all types of death, like hit with, like, killed, blood gin of a baseball bat, stabbed to death.

Jesus. Like, all of these things. And then I'd wake up and I'd just be so buzzing to be alive that I would, that I would had this kind of happy disposition. I would just be walking even on this estate of knees than being like, hey, everyone, how are you? Because I, in my head, I just, I just said, I died last night. Yeah, I died, bro. Like, I just, like, and I would just accept, it was the acceptance of death that I'd have every night. It was weird. And, but the sleep paralysis I've also had, I don't really know. I had it. I think, for me personally, I've only had it when I've been doing drugs. So, like,

it's a kind of a limbo state. But I had it once where the woman I was with at the time, she, as in like dating, I, I had that. I woke up, I thought I'd woken up, couldn't move. And I heard my front door get booted open. And it was like, to the bed. And I was like, and I was screaming. And it was like nothing was coming out. It was like, but what happened was I, what I did do was I somehow had movement in my hand.

and I pulled my, the ex's hair. And then she woke up and screamed, which woke me up to actually... Which got you out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because she was like, ah, what the fuck? And then I was like, oh, sorry, because I was just trying to clench every part of my body.

But you know what's interesting? We keep saying dream. This is not a dream like state. It's this other weird limbo of awakening of sleep. You're aware of your life. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, which is... A head fuck.

Have you had a double dream? Sorry, go ahead. Carry on. Well, tell me if this is a double dream. But one time, I don't want to be, one time now, but this one fucks me up. This one time in band camp. This one time in dream life, I got locked in a dream and I couldn't leave it. And I knew.

That is great. I was in a dream. And I was dying to get out. It was in a really weird world. And I was like, I have no idea how to get out. And there was a part of me. It felt like I might have to live there forever, which is. which is a very, very heavy existential feeling.

What was going on in your life at that point, Makita? Roughly, what was, what was, what age we talking? What age we're talking? 26. Your mid-20s, you had a dream that you were locked indefinitely in a nightmare. And then I realized it was my life. And then I went to sleep. Yeah, then I went to sleep.

Yeah, a double dream I've had. Double dreams is when you wait, yo, double. dreams are great double dreams is inception basically you've seen inception right yeah oh my god okay so explain this right so i've had i've had like five or six double dreams in my life where i've woken up in but i've woken up and began to live my life but i'm still asleep what so then i've woken up again oh oh of course it's fucking tripping and you get quite far into the living and then you're like it's a dream hopefully not too far but like i usually get up like so i had well actually fuck it i had one the other day, weirdly, where I was like, I woke up and was like, oh, shit, what's the time?

And I was like, oh, fuck, it's, I was like, he's 10, 17. Okay, let me, let me figure out. And then it was like something wrong with, it was really normal thing that was like an issue. And I was like, oh, man, it's so fucking annoying that has happened. And then I woke up and it was like 7 a. And I was like, oh, shit, that wasn't even real. But it was so, it was so normal. I've had that, I've had that. I've had that I actually had the maddest one I ever had was I had a double dream, but the dream, oh my God, but the first dream I had was lucid.

That was crazy. So I dreamt, I dreamt, I dreamt, so I was in a dream I could control, right? And I had a great dream. And then I woke up, but I was still in my dream. That was very inception. Because lucid dream is like the nice fun one, right? You can be in control of what you're dreaming. You're aware that you're dreaming whilst you're dreams.

You're aware of it. It's like tripping. It's like being on psychedelics. It's so incredible. But do you want to know something? How do you bring it in? What do you mean? How does one lucid dream?

So you can train yourself apparently if by writing down your dreams. Dali, again, fact check me, but I'm pretty sure the idea that Dali was the surrealist on the basis that he would fall as, or maybe this is a myth. I feel like it's a myth. I'm saying this. But anyway, apparently he would fall asleep. holding onto a teaspoon just above a cup so that when he lost consciousness he would hear a ding

and know that he was in a dream that's what I heard and then he would have these long lucid dreams but like the thing that I've this is one thing I've always wanted to say because it's wild the first and second lucid dreams I ever had I couldn't fly properly right

I was flying like a daddy long legs obviously when you're in a lucid dream the first thing you do is fly because you're like what the fuck I've never flown before let me fly And I was flying up and down. And I was going, this is bizarre. This isn't how I would imagine flying.

I want to fly like a superhero, right? I want to be like, through the skies. Yeah. When I tell you, there is a support group online. I went online to be like, why can't I fly in my lucid dreams? And there was an online support group for people who needed to learn how, like, they were like, you can't, like, guys, you can't just fly in your lucid dreams. You have to teach us that.

You have to basically go through. You have to train to fly in your dreams. Wow. That makes a lot of sense though. Yeah. God, I'd love to. to lucid dream. I would really, I would want to fly. Because I fly a lot in my dreams, but I'm not in control. As I said, I've always got to do these big, low landings that

make my stomach drop. What, you used to fly in your dreams like that? And you couldn't land. That's interesting. No, I'm constantly having to go down, down, and then like bounce back up. It's a bit like a bungee jump. I hate it. Yeah, that's the thing because we haven't learned. Is this an a lucid dream? Oh, this is me not learning. This is me not being trained. Yeah, we have to, we have to go to like lucid dream flying school. Let's go to that. It's honestly, it's so well, but like, it is, look, let's be, let's have it, let's have it. Let's be real here, right? I can't believe that we just wake up every day. Most people just wake up every day having been in like a psychedelic, like, trip zone and then everyone just goes about the business. Like, anyway, and this makes a coffee and just goes to work. It's like, dude, you just, and also, you can have the same dream, right? You can have a symbolic dream. Like, like, you'd have a, like, you'd have a, like, you'd have a, like, you'd have a, the same dream as a person 6,000 miles away that doesn't involve words, it's just symbols. And ultimately, you're, you're connected in that mutual understanding of something that's beyond us.

So for like example, for example, I remember dreaming. I remember I had one dream. I was on a hill next to a castle. And there were all these birds in a distance. And I was trying to take a picture of the birds, but I couldn't get, get into focus. The camera wouldn't focus. Right. And I was like, this is so frustrating. I can't focus on these birds. Obviously, little search, birds largely will represent freedom, right? That idea of a bird representing freedom isn't specific to this country. I would argue that it could be representative

across most nations on the planet and the world. So I could be having a dream with someone who's different to me in every way, genetically, culturally, and yet we might both go to sleep, dreaming of being free from where we are and have it in the same way. That's fucking weird.

Because I was even going to say, I find it strange that other people dream in their language. Of course they do. dream in Spanish and in French and in Australian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that famous other language. That other culture. That famous other variation.

Okay, I think we should take a break from all this dream. I love the word dream. Yeah, so do I. It's just, it's nice to talk about, you're right. It's like another one of those things in life that it's like, we do all do that. We hear her every night people are tripping balls and no one's talking about it. Even bad people. Even like weird Tory cabinet ministers.

They have dreams. No, they don't. Sorry, I draw the line there. They're dreamless. They are dreamless. Yeah, they're dreamless. Yes, let's have a bloody break from all this dreaming. But never stop dreaming.

We're just having a little break. Never stop. This is nice from Nat. Thanks Nat. The oldest use of dream in English meant joy, noise or music. Isn't that funny? Dream meant joy. It wasn't until centuries later that dream was used to mean a series of thoughts, images or emotions occurring during sleep. So that's interesting, isn't it? Because obviously,

we've been dreaming for millennia. So what the hell did we think was going on before we decided to call it dreaming? I mean, I can talk about this four hours. I'm pretty sure. No, listen, let me just let me just say this quick, but one thing that blows my mind, right? So I am obsessed with like pine cones, right? Because pine cones are like mathematically, they're like the golden ratio. So like when people talk about Fibonacci sequence. Like maths obviously existed before us, right? Like we talk about maths because we've given shapes and sounds to numbers, but the concept of like patterns in maths. That's what makes maths like spiritual and magic. Yeah. So they're often viewed as a symbol of eternal life, human enlightenment and regeneration. Also, the reason I'm getting

ever excited, pineal gland is named after the pine cone, right? And the pineal gland is the part of our brain that helps us control sleep. And it's the part of our brain, I think, that that reacts with psychedelics. Shut up. Yes. I didn't know if pine cones were so interesting. I'm going to go down to the park and take a look at a few. Yes. They've just taken over the Fibonacci sequence as my new point of interest. Just to be clear, okay, so here we go. The pine cone is an ancient symbol for the pineal gland, or third eye, representing spiritual awakening,

enlightenment and high consciousness. Named for its physical resemblance to a pine cone, the pineal gland is linked in esoteric tradition to the gateway between the physical and spiritual worlds, right? In ancient Egypt, the staff of Osiris depicts two intertwining serpents rising to meet a pine cone at a pine cone, right? Mirroring concepts similar to Kundalini Awakening. Wow.

Apcula, winged, wise figures are frequently sculpted, holding a pine cone, symbolizing the transfer of divine knowledge. I mean, this is going to trip me out. The Vatican, the Fontana della Pina, is a massive 13-foot ancient bronze pine cone located in the Vatican. Originally pagan is become to represent the eternal life, renewal, and spiritual illumination. In Hinduism and Buddhism, the third eye center correlates with the location and symbolic function of the pineal gland, acting as a seat of inner vision and intuition.

So that's why I love pine cones. No, but seriously, it's like, it's all there if you just look. That's just a fucking pine cone. It's a fucking pine cone, bro. Wow. And like... I might make pine cone my new screensaver. Oh, okay.

And can I say, look, I don't want to do another fit. Sorry, I'm going off peace, dear, because... Okay. I just want to talk about rats. You can talk about rats if you are. It's my new pigeon. Rats are your new... pigeon. Yeah, I'm going for all the vermin, bro. People are taking, people are pissing me off,

bro. I've done the pigeon. I'm reframing all vermin. Yes, bro, because the pigeon thing was just the tip of the vermin iceberg, bro. Like, the other day someone was dissing rats and I felt this visceral anger. I was like, I was like, hold on. Someone was saying, you know, that like, oh, rats are, you know, oh, they're always in trash. I'm like, yeah, but they're in your trash. Yeah. They didn't make the trash. That's all rubbish. It's all. It's, Oh, rubbish, they're just trying to survive. And the thing is, we have the audacity to sit here and go, oh, rats, listen, let me drop some things about rats.

Firstly, rats won the race, right, with the ancient Chinese symbols, the zodiac, right? Year of the rat. The rat won. So they, yes, of course, they won the race, didn't they? And do you know why they won? They jumped on the oxymack, and they jumped off at the end. However, it's because the rat is intelligent. And do you know how we know rats are intelligent?

Because we fucking study their brains. They're the reason why loads of our medicine. and pharmaceutical industry exist. We've been torturing rats for like hundreds of years because they're so bright they can navigate through mazes they have memory.

That's true. We have studied their brains. Yes, they show empathy, joy. Like we study drugs on them. We study like, oh my God, and we're just there going, ugh. Like, fuck you, actually.

No, it's just about being a bit more curious and we're here to educate. So let's leave the fuck you's and just be a bit more of a like philosopher and teacher. I'm sorry, I know, I know. I'm not in a great place there. I was more balanced. when we spoke about pigeons with rats I was just like.

And they called them rats with wings. Also, can I just throw out there, apparently, apparently there's some new waves of historians that believe they didn't even spread the plague. So there we are. How about that? What the rats weren't even behind the plague? It was probably us. Let's be honest.

It's probably us in our dirty, filthy ways. It's probably us throwing shit out the window because we didn't have a fucking working. Then we were like, blame the rats. Sorry, okay, anyway, you're right, you know what? I'll do that from a more balanced place. I need to calm down.

I just, rats, bats, pigeons, snakes. I just like, we need to just chill. Like, these guys are legends. We're discrediting them, especially when they're helping us exist. I like that. I'm very much here for the reframing of vermin. I'll come with you on that journey. Okay, yeah, sorry.

Anyway. But we should talk about queer raves. Sorry, yes. That's what we said we were going to do. Okay, let's stay on track. I should have put rats in the library. Oh, anyway. Oh, that's good.

But maybe there's a brilliant book about the beautiful history of rats and their kind of majestic energy. Right, look, this is what I want to say, and you reminded me of it of carnival, right? When's the last time you went to a gay party? Yeah, I was trying to think about this. I just don't party enough. A queer wave, oh right, okay.

You don't like Dawson Superstore, Divine? No, I'm not going Dawston Superstore. Excuse me. Why did you say it like that? Because I hate Dalston's Superstore. I'm so sorry to Dalton's Superstore. The actual specific place. I thought you could say, Doulston. I would have given you that.

Obviously, I hate Doulston. Okay, you've got to hate D'Lston. I don't, I've never had fun in D'Alson Superstore, but that's probably my fault, not D'Lston Superstores' fault. There is a queer bar that's opened up on Wells Street in Hackney opposite my mate's restaurant, and my friend Tulfi, and her girlfriend, Tekea, have had a lot of fun there. And there's on my list. I'm like, get your fucking ass over there.

I forgot what it's called. But I disagree with the idea that queer bars, and queer spaces and queer raves are an unwelcoming space. Hey, who said that? In my understanding and my experience and like, well, when this bar opened, there was quite a lot of people going, oh, well, that's quite a segregated thing to have a bar just for the queer scene and for queer people.

It's like, you're welcome to come in. It's just a place for queer people to be safe. Sorry, sorry, sorry. That doesn't mean it's an unwelcoming space for others. Sorry, who's saying this in Hackney in 2020? You don't know who lives here now, Jordan. Clearly not. Clearly not.

It's fucking Putney out here. It's bombs. The unwritten rule of a queer space is like you got, that's the base level and you work from there, right? I, I... Which is why it's good vibes. It is the best vibes. And I just want to send some love.

I was at Margate Pride last Saturday. Shout out Amy Zing and shout out. I was with Jack Remington and that and we were just having a laugh, mate. so much fun. Nice. There's a feeling I get in those spaces. And look, let me be clear, right? Like, like you said, those spaces are to a degree protected in a sense that they've had to

be created because of the animosity that this community will feel in other spaces, right? So there is a level of like, I'm not going to run around to people who aren't queer or at least allies or like, or wanting to be part of that space and go, hey, come and have loads of fun here because, you know, it's, it is a protected space. that sense, which is sad, by the way, because for example, in Rio, there was way more fluidity to that, to that experience. That's just how we do things in this world, in this country. But it's, what's interesting for me is like, I, like, so I love part in there because the music's often good, and I feel like everybody's on a good vibe and a good wave, and it's

more about, like, finding spaces, non, like, being able to experience joy in what I believe to be a non-judgmental space. Like, when I was downstairs at the superstore, there was some mad techno going on. Everyone else is doing their thing in their smoking environment. It's all hot, sweaty. It's a vibe. And I'm just in my own zone. And no one's like it's, I feel completely at ease and, and peaceful. And I remember I was in a sauna like, uh, in my local gym. Um, and this guy, he was about 20. He sat there and he was two other guys. I wasn't really talking. I was just like sat there. But they started chatting and he goes, you know what was mad? The other day, I went with my friend to this, to this bar. And I was like, this bar's amazing. I was like, half an hour.

the best time at this bar and the vibe was great and then I was talking to someone and they told me that it was a gay bar and then the other guy goes oh that's gotta let's go no way but but but the thing is I loved the energy in the bar because it didn't feel like it didn't feel like there wasn't this kind of like um I don't know this kind of feeling of like there might something might happen in a way I don't know like there wasn't this kind of like base level aggression and then the guy was like yeah but you never know do do that And then there was this like kind of back and forth between these guys. And then eventually I chimed in and was like, I'm with the first dude.

Like these like I've had wicked nights out at these spaces. And then here's one thing, which I find fascinating that was said, right? And it's probably just important to say the guy, one of the guys went, yeah, but the thing is, when you're in these spaces, yeah, like, I don't know if I can relax because I don't know what they're thinking. The gay guys are thinking, right? Yeah. And then I've sat there and gone, so wait, you do get it. So I said to this guy like,

You don't want to go to a gay space because you're worried about being sexualized by the men there. And yet, you're willing to be in a straight space where you're doing the same thing to women. Yes. Yes. So you know that there's a level of discomfort with experiencing the idea that you might be being sexualized, but you are willing to be the person doing it in a whole other space. And then we wonder, and then we wonder why the first guy says that. because if we all understood our role, our responsibility in order to create an environment

where people weren't worried about being whatever, then we would all be having a good time anyway. Yeah, but it's when it's reversed, the reaction is very different because I guess you feel like the hunter versus the prey? Yeah, it's wild. And also, there is a hetero, there's like a straight guy thing

where like just for some reason, they just believe everyone wants to bang us. I know, also it's like, maybe he doesn't, maybe you won't, Maybe they don't fancy your ass. You know what I mean? It's just like all gay guys. All gay guys just want to fuck me.

They're all going to want to fuck me. If I go to this gay bar, it will be, I will be feasted on, obviously. It'll be shut down. Obviously. It's like, kickback, Stephen. But yeah, I love them. I just want to shout out. The just queer party is just the dopest, man.

I just love it. It feels so free. I'm happy that as a straight man that you enjoy your time out in, that space and you feel free and good. I love it and I love it and I love it because like I hope I hope I don't feel that way I'm not a threat in that space and I had I had the gift of being raised around all types different people and so the idea of queerness was normalized to me very young so I like so I've never I've never been conditioned into believing that something's like in avert comments

wrong in our family fucking joking. See what I'm saying? Go on. Yeah. I mean I would. like to just throw, I'm sorry to, I don't want to like piss all over the queer rave party, but I'm just going to sprinkle a little bit of gentrification into this conversation because I am very aware of the polarizing nature of socializing in Hackney right now. And it's like all pubs, white people.

Like every pub is just white people. And then all the like, you know, block, no, let's not push it, block parties, but like stoop parties, let's say. And park raves do feel like that they are here for the black community. because a lot of the black community feel pushed out of their own space. And I don't mean they can't go to the pub where all the newer residents have moved in and started to frequent. I'm talking about all the old school Caribbean pubs have been closed down. All the old school, like, Irish pubs have been closed down.

This actually isn't it a black and white thing? This is a class thing. Oh, wait, yeah. So you're not even so, yeah, what kind of people, white people are you talking about? You're talking about like pubs that also serve like like really great, great dinners. I'm talking about where you have to book a table. Exactly. I'm talking about the pub that you now have to book a table at.

Oh, no. It's not even gritty. Oh, it's not even a thing of like, yeah, yeah, it's not. You can't just go to the pub. There's a few pubs around here now that you can still just go to the pub. Most of them you have to book a table. That's not a pub. That is a buzz kill, spontaneity kill, bullshit new rule.

And it is about class. It is about. class and I see it every day and I'm sick of it don't get me started on LTN because that's also a class thing but I'll save that LTN is low TN is low truant yeah I really want to talk about Luton airport next no it's low traffic neighborhood uh whatever scheme oh it's where they blocked all the roads with fake plant pots yeah and it's about it's about richer residents moving into poorer areas and making decisions that apply to their needs I I don't want to hear car I don't want to have pollution on my street, so everything is pushed to the main road.

Let's be clear. And also the genius of it is in order to combat emissions, you're pushing loads of cars into spaces where they can't move very fast. So they're sat there idling and creating more gas. That's the point. Problem not solved. Problem not solved. Hackney has one of the worst.

That fucking street. I don't know what street it is. Well, Mayor Street is a mayor. And then... Mayor Street's the total mayor. And then there's one road that goes along by premises studios and whatever else. I've never sit so long on a fucking road in my life. It's because of LTN, Jordan.

They've closed off, I'd say 80% of the side streets. I really am going to save this for September because I really am passionate about it because it's not a joke. Also, we can't complain because love and light, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. And also, I'm about to go away now. I don't want to leave on LTN gentrification anger. I'd like to say thank you to Jordan for a beautiful summer.

of, I don't know, I felt very held by you this summer. Actually, more in the spring. I was having a very, very hard spring. And May as well. And you really looked after me. I just wanted to say thank you. That's really sweet of you. I'm glad that I could have been of service.

But now I'm going. And yeah, please leave. I'm off. I'm dead. Nah. Don't want to hear from you either. None of you. Jonathan?

Nah. Sorry, of course I'm doing. doing Listen Bitch next week. But then I'll be gone. Bye. All right. Love you. Good luck out there. Love you. Yeah, see ya. Good luck, soldier. I'm out. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persephoneka show.