Miss Me? - I might have been your dad?

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss the impact of astrology, the BTS dramas in getting TV made, and Elon MuskThis episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This episode of Miss Me contains strong language and adult themes. Hello, welcome to Miss Me, with me, Mekita Oliver, with my family member, Jordan Stevens. I'm looking particularly sweet today. Extended family. What? Extended family is so far away. That sounds like a cousin in Canada. I don't chat to anymore.

Come on. Yes, I know, but you just need to be clear that we have like a tribal family. Yeah, there's a lot of us. I'm not doing this again, Keats. No, I know. That's why I was trying to just succinctly give it a cover. Anyway, know each other for a very long time.

I love him dearly from the bottom of my heart. This is a new chapter for Miss Me, but the same rooty fucking vibe is my main point. That's just all I'm trying to say here. Yes. Yeah. So are you okay with your hair, et cetera? Look, Makita.

Because I did, I was saying I'm late. I've got to wait for makeup. And you were like, dude, put some bloody eye liner on and let's get cancelled. I'm not sure what that means. Not sure what that means. Keats. All I'm saying is, you know.

I don't know how to do my own makeup. You're an adult. Is it weird? Like, look, let me get this. Before I get into this, makeup artist, can do incredible things. Yeah, Natty's great. Jade's taught me a lot about where makeup can go,

the art of makeup, like, of course you have the, like a heightened makeup display. Yeah, Jade is a different kettle of fish to me and my makeup. She can be, yeah, yeah, because she loves it. But then to the same extent, you know, you're an adult. How many years do you need just to learn how to do it? You're an adult.

You shouldn't know how to do this yourself by now. I'm an adult who's been in a makeup chair since I was 15. I also don't like makeup. so I didn't learn how to put it on. Don't put it on. It's a work thing. Maybe I'll do a better face next week. I don't think so.

I'm not, it's not my place. McKee, you look gorgeous. I look like a... And you look extremely young. Look. Extremely young. I'm playing an extremely young person in a play at the young Vic.

Oh, how old is he? 20. Good for you, 33, playing 20. Wow. Is that why you got rid of your dreads? I loved where your hair was at. When we last did this, when I lost all saw you. There's a few reasons why.

It wasn't wholly the play. The play was like the final straw, the final look. I had been playing with the idea practically. As I do get older, I find myself leaning more towards comfort in as many places as possible. Not in terms of my career, actually. I'm definitely not in the, like constantly throwing myself into uncomfortable situations. No, you must be terrified.

In terms of like, yeah, in terms of, I guess like life, in terms of adventures, I don't see comfort. but in terms of removing as many obstacles as possible towards that prevent me from like creating or or you know running and I think with locks no but listen I think with locks you know there is there's a lot of like quite literally weight that comes of locks and then and then spiritually weight that comes of locks and both I massively appreciate you get what I'm saying

and I've had an incredible journey with my locks and I love them and I still have them and the mad thing about locks is I can put them back in if I want to What do you mean? Put them back in. I could put them back in the end of November. Were they not yours? No, they're mine. You can just sew them back in. I grew them all myself.

Oh, you grew them yourself. Then you take them out and then you can put said lock back in. Yeah. Of course you can. Yeah. It's the only hairstyle. It's actually the only hairstyle that you can put back in. Absolutely.

No, this is freedom. I just want to quickly reference the wind on my side. What is that? What is that? It really does sound like a 1930s play of adaptations. They're not just an old man whistling behind you? I just want to reference Barb in the corner. Who's here for atmosphere?

No, I'm top floor of Kelly's house in Waldom Stowe and it's just next level windy today. It sounds like an adaptation of whistle down the wind. I'm quite enjoying it. But just before someone goes, sound issues, I ref it. That's how you kill a sound issue. We're riffing with the wind, man. We're at one with nature.

We're at one with nature. But back to your hair. This is huge. I wanted to save hair for a listen bitch because I think it would be great. Me and a little weirdly haven't done it. But I do want to just touch upon this because platt, me plaiting my hair,

gave me freedom and versatility. Because I had a weave for so long. You're locked into a certain hairstyle. Not to mention I hated it for lots of reasons. So anything that brings freedom and versatility I'm down for in the beauty game. When someone who came to me and said, no, listen, my dad put them back in and showed me.

I was like, oh, what am I? No, this, I don't think everyone knows this, though, about being able to take out locks and then put them back in because when I had locks, I don't know whether you know this, I had locks. Yeah, and you had locks, of course. Okay, you do know. And I was 16, and then I went to New York and realized I wanted to be a glamorous to try and make my ex-boyfriend fall back in love with me.

So I came home and cut them all off. Was he white? Yes. That's so weird. It's so weird. Anyway, carry on. Fuck you. We'll get into that as well.

God, I'm happy we have a few weeks together because I really, Really, there's quite a few things I want to, like, tear down with you. That is, that's, can I just say, that's one thing, that's one thing that I do buy at, though. Sometimes, a few people, obviously you're not included because you love the locks and a lot of people do love the locks, but sometimes I get someone and I'm like, oh, thank God. And I'm like, you shut the fuck up now. What do you mean, thank God? Because, you know, for some people, locks, they don't get it. Is you know what I'm saying?

Oh, and it's not, and there's never for them. No, no, no, but they need to understand. I also think it's quite a good opportunity because I free grew my locks. they weren't necessarily placed in the best way so there's like parts of my head which I think actually just need a little bit of breathing space excuse me

so what is free growing how does one free grow oh sorry I didn't so I just on over lockdown I just didn't just left my hair and they just turned into locks I didn't twist them or anything oh is that free growing

not brushing that's free grow naturally it naturally turned into locks I think that's pretty amazing it's amazing what hair can do You know, this is a new chapter. It's interesting, when did you get rid of your locks? Because this is, I'm sure it was probably just a little bit

before this eclipse came to town, to party with us. Okay, sorry, just as a record, just for anyone who's interested. My locks are in my bedroom cupboard, for anyone who's interested. You're going to where they are? Wrapped, wrapped in cotton. Just so, you know, there's a lot of emotion in those locks, and I know what I've experienced with those locks. I really understand that.

Yes. We hold a lot of, not just memories, but a lot of stuff in our hair, like emotional stuff in our hair. When my dad grew out locks, it was punk. Your mum will know as well, you know what I'm saying? Like, it was around that time, that was punk, mate. Like those people, you would be looked at and, oh, what locks,

you know, you're considered unprofessional, unemployable, like, ironically, that would encourage me to nowadays, you know, you're getting locks on Love Island. So, are you? Are you? Is there proof of that? Have you been watching Love Island? Oh, you don't watch Love Island, do you? It's like three or four seasons in a row now.

Yeah, but there hasn't been a... Anyway, let's move on. Yeah, let's get onto the astrology because you don't watch Love Island as ridiculous that you're making... You're trying to tell me about who's been on... Baby, not watched it. I'm not just so... What I was trying to do was shoehorn in.

We need some women with locks, black women with locks on Love Island because I think that's a wicked look, brov. Yeah, man. People always say to me, like, I love your dreads. I'm like, these are plats. It's just a platt. It's not that hard to, like, it's not a braid. It's just a platt. All I do is platt my hair. But then in Antigua, and they're like, yes, dread. I'm like, yes, yes. I let them move. And that's, and that's on mixed race. That's right. And that's on being mixed race.

That's right. It is a, it's a lunar eclipse. Sorry, it's a, you know what I've been getting confused. So what I have is a little voice note. Half moon? Half moon. Total eclipse. Dolly eclipse. Can you imagine writing a slogan or an advert for, like, something in advertising that goes so deeply into the stratosphere of life that you could just go full moon?

I've got at least four to five adverts in my being. I'll be saying them, yo, I'll be, I won't know where I am, who I am, and I'll be withered away on a bed looking at my great grandchild or grandchild. and then I'll just look at them in their eyes and go, BN, BN, do, do, do, do, do. It might be being a freelance creative and watching too much daytime TV because I've got some weird ones in my head.

Like, money supermarket is too deeply in my soul. I was like... They're embedded, Macquita, embedded. I believe that the internet may be killing astrology somewhat. It's not... I would like to say it's sort of like democratised astrology, but I don't think astrology should be democratised.

Maybe it's not for everyone to decipher it and tell us what it is. But one person that always excites me when she talks about the astrology and also simplifies it for me is Phoebe Oliver. So here is, wise owl, Phoebe Oliver, explaining what the fuck has actually gone on astrologically over the last week or two

and what we have to look forward to. She's like, oh, Mystic Meg! if you will Hi Kee's Yeah so the eclipses Be eclipsing in it Yeah we had the lunar eclipse In Pisces which was the full moon in Pisces

But the moon was eclipsed And we will be having The solar eclipse in Virgo So we're sort of in the corridor Between the two With the lunar it's very much Well with the full moon You're usually sort of saying thank you

And sort of coming to an end of something So with the eclipse It's very much letting go and things will come up things should come up I mean I've seen it with lots of people that we know things will come up

which sort of give you an invitation of like maybe I don't need that anymore whether it's like stuff in your body or you know just funny weird things happening with your move or accidents and then we can use what we're letting go of

to figure out what we're moving forward with when we come to the solar eclipse and Virgo Virgo is actually super about routine so yeah it's like what new routine what new routine what new actions can we take slowly moving forward to move away from things that we don't need

that hopefully have been revealed to us in the lunar eclipse if you can find any way to sort of stand firm and not get sucked into the sort of lower vibes of essentially vengeance and hatred that would be really beneficial I think it's going to be really tempting to get pulled down into that energy in the next few weeks so if you can come up with anything to remind you to sort of ground yourself to not descend into that that would be ideal I think

yeah Jordan really keep an eye on that vengeful hateful side of it is what she said vengeful yeah yeah she just like she just said you know there's an eclipse so just you know don't avenge anything do you follow this stuff

you've told me you like astrology yeah I do definitely to someone who does because Lily's not interested at all I do I think there's a genuine ancient, you know, there are understandings or relationships between us and the universe and the stars that have been accumulated over years and years and thousands of years. And I find that fascinating. And I like to believe in nature, even if you can't

necessarily prove these things. And I also do like to believe that, you know, you can do like a birth chart. Yes. I like birth charts because I think that everything vibrates, right? I'm pretty sure that's a scientific law that like everything is everything has a frequency yeah everything has a frequency so by that logic the position of planets the time of day we may have some effect on how a baby is comes into the world so that i find fascinating because you know if you like played a death metal song as as a child was coming out into the world and then all you played I don't know, Corrin Bailey Ray, there might be a difference in how that child,

that's that first experience of life. That's like a heightened example, but that's what I imagine is there's a song playing in the universe that the child comes into, and then that kind of dictates how they, but I'm actually more into numerology nowadays because I find that interesting, where it's like,

that's more like a study of numbers and the fact that numbers vibrate and you're always writing down your birthday. What numbers vibrate? Well, you're always writing down your birthday all the time all your life, aren't you? And I just find it interesting

that there's a study on what those numbers mean. Or you're saying it all the time because I've been setting up my new house so it's like everything. It's like, can I get your name please? Your date of birth? And you're like da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

Yeah, you're right. I do like that we all have, do you know what really scares me? The dash on a tombstone? Because it's like, that's it. Like, that's your life. That's your life. The dash.

Wow. And so we talk about our birth. date a lot, but what we don't realize is that we're living the day we die once a year every year. We just haven't died on it yet. Oh, that's a bit of me that. Love that. I love that, Keats. And it's already happened. Because time isn't linear. We're already dead. So we're knocking past that. We're already dead. Oh, we're already dead. Like, kind of. We're just existing, we're just experiencing that that dimension of time until it finishes. But it's infinite. One thing I would say is most families, especially a tribal one like ours,

I feel like we've all danced this dance together before. Like I might have been your dad before. What? Yeah, uh, sure. Soul ties. Hey, listen, I'm, I'm into that too. I'm into that too. I'm into, I'm into the soul ties thing. You know, I'm saying like all our parents being so close and kind of finding each other and banding together to make this greater family. It's like they probably all knew each other before so we knew it's like you know it's a reason you look at people and you fall in love for the first time when you see them or you know i've had that with friends tall phoebe i was like i definitely like i say frequencies energies like i can't wait for us to develop a device or some kind of instrument to be able to measure what it is that we experience

because there's loads of evidence to support the concept of people being on a frequency with us or people's energies emanating to a certain level but obviously science is based around and being able to measure things. So I can't wait for that measurement because it would make sense of so many things. And also the fact that people will go to countries and just feel this absolutely resonance with them and then be like, oh, I want to live here.

And then they end up living in this country but not for any reason in their current life. It's wild. I think if you're always paying attention, you are always being led to something. Like even just like the area that my parents live in now, I had to go there for a few reasons. It's quite a strange area to go to.

And I would just know, I knew that for some reason they would be an important it would be an important part of our lives I love that to patterns I think it's good to believe in patterns even if it feels silly but what I don't like

is star signs just straight up because it's always the same shit's always like this week's gonna be great and you're gonna meet a tall dark handsome stranger or like the horoscopes you're talking about if you focus on this

then da da da yeah horoscopes I find a bit bullshit no no my mate's mum did horoscopes is literally just for stoners They'll just ring you up and go, oh, go, Keats, you've got horoscopes and you just light a big one and then just go, yeah, you're going to...

Oh, right, I could write them. What is your star sign? Guess. I actually have no fucking idea. Your birthday's in January, so at Capricorn? One of two, no, I'm Aquarius. Oh, the weird Aquarius. Jade's a Capricorn.

Aquarius. Which isn't compatible by astrological standards, but maybe by life path standards. That I don't really believe it. I don't really believe in that. Obviously not. I adore Jade. She's amazing. Also, and also, even in the past, Capricorns have pissed me off, but not Jade.

Can you imagine if you broke up with Jade because some fucking charts that you weren't astrologically compatible? I will say this. When I was younger, and I mean this with all my heart, when I was younger, I spent a stupid amount of time of Libras. Like my closest friends are Libras, updated Libras, to the point where I could guess if someone was on my life. Harley is my witness. People in that early part of my early 20s, I would be, if I'm speaking to someone for a couple of minutes, I'll be like you're a Libra. And I don't know why.

I remember those chicks you went out with. So they were all Libra's, yeah? Well, a lot of them, not all of them. The ones who are more troublesome one. The more troublesome ones were. Two things, two things real quick. One, yeah, this is a mad. I, have you ever done a speed awareness course?

Oh, you can't drive. Can you drive? No, still. You still can't drive? I know. Because what happened is Jordan and I did a suspect. No, because I'm just trying to add. I'd like to erase it from my past too, but we did this.

Just trying to add reasons that we are family, we know each other forever. We did a TV show for the BBC. What was it called? Eight Go Driving. It's called Road to Saigon. Listen, can you just hurry up and tell, people can Google this shit? We did a show driving around Asia. In classic cars, a rally that exists already with lots of crazy rich people.

Let's just say, Noel Edmonds and his wife, Jordan and Tinchie. Strider and me and my mom. I don't want to do this. Okay, I just have to say yes, I was forced into learning to drive for that and I didn't do it on time. Neither did I. And so neither did Jordan. And so Jordan had to let Tinchie Strider do all the driving. I had to let

my mum. And then we came back and Jordan made sure he passed his test. Yeah, but it took me five attempts. Oh, that makes me feel better. Yes, it's called perseverance, Makita. I'm there. I just failed my theory. And I learned manual, by the way. For the second time on this second round. I know I'm learning manual. But don't worry. I'm going to do it

for the end of the year. Just getting automatic then. It's hopeless. It's a go-car for you. No, I'm doing this. I'm doing this manual. Look, Keats, I just want to say it's quick because it's not even what I want to talk about.

I'm just saying, I've done a speed awareness course. Four hours, this course, right? Obviously, typical me found it quite interesting. Really? Found it pretty fascinating. One of the things I learned on this course. Oh, that was a way to pass at the time. People kept going like, dude, this shit's like so boring.

I sat in this room. Well, what do you have to do on a speed awareness? Because I've just been asking people about, learn about speed. Yeah. All over again. Ever the curious cat, I am. I was like, wow, I really didn't realize this is why everything's 20 miles now. That is genuinely interesting.

You're backing your facts with science. Right. Look, the most car crashes every year happen on a full moon. According to the person who led the speed awareness course, this may or may not be a fact. Does, it does affect us, doesn't it? They thought it was a fact. But you know what's funny is the guy said it reluctantly.

He wasn't even into this shit. He was like, he was like, most car crashes happen on a four moot. Someone asked. And he was like, anyway. Yeah, he's like, let's not get into that too much. It was like perfect segue into wearables, but he just didn't go there. This is what I'm being at the speed awareness course. Do I mean?

Like obviously they're running on to the moment. This is what I mean by astrology being somewhat democratized. Because, let's say 25 years ago, I'm sure there was lunar eclipses and solar eclipses and, what was it, Mercury retrogrades? But now... We're going to talk about this all episode. Everyone feels that they are part of their daily routine.

And, like, everyone's just having a shit month. They're like, oh, it's the retrograde. It's like, bro, life is challenging. Everyone? Well, in my circle. Keats, have you left London in the last 20 years? You joined a hippie commune. See, no, I wouldn't have to now.

But the thing is, it's like there's in Hackney now. everyone feels that they have an opinion about these things and knowledge about these things because we're we are fed information by the internet so everyone's like oh I'm just having a really hard time just waiting for mercury retrograde to finish it's like guess what you mean it will finish and life will still be hard no I'm not on stupid TikTok and I still see this shit I do understand what you mean I love the idea that it's I mean just to remind you this is what the entire planet believed once upon a time we've we've been pulled away from our research on stars and gathering our knowledge from stars and the universe and whatever because we have

other instruments now at play. Actually, but you know, maybe I'm going too harsh on you actually because there is also another subculture of astrology and crystals and stuff that does pop up in the old working class town there and they're outside of London. So there's different versions of it. But it's like if a tree falls in the woods when no one's around and no one hears it, did it actually fall? What's that got to do of astrology? Because these things were always happening which didn't discuss them. So it's like these mercury retrogades also happened in the 80s when our parents were like out running around London. But no one was sitting around going, I've had a really half few months. It must be that mercury retrograde. Well, again, it was just like, I'm on the

doll and I'm skin and life's challenging. It depends on you're talking to. Again, Keith, I find the internet fascinating because it's also, I think, given us this bizarre pre-internet amnesia. By scrolling on our phones on Instagram, so I had a really bad week with Instagram last week where I was like, this is genuinely like making me a bad person and giving me like anger and resentment I don't like living like that and I feel like that's the cult that we've all unwittingly joined without knowing the land of like comparison

and negativity yeah and false information we actually don't have like there's we don't have enough time in this episode to get into that we should actually make that something else because it is I said with Lil last week or the week before last that I'd come off my phone for a week

to do the play right so I could learn the lines be undistracted and even that one week the perspective it gave me on social media was why And I have this need, that's what it is, I have this need to always research the opposite thing to what I think. So, so my, my algorithm is actually things I don't agree with, which is bizarre. Whoa. Yeah, yeah. So, so I, so I like look up, I won't say specifically what those beliefs are right now because we'll go off on the side chain, but like things I've believed politically and, and, and socially, I will search actively the opposing thoughts. And all I've learned

is that everyone, people can get the same story, cut it up and take their bit of that story and then create the same level of outrage in their community and then this way. And then both communities seem to be, well actually arguably one more than the other, seems to be prided on not engaging with that other side. So no one realizes that both sides

are cutting up the same cake and they get angry about their specific sides of it. Do you know what I mean? Meanwhile, the person who owns the cake is just someone who lives in like, San Francisco or whatever and there's just like a multi-billionaire and it's just like sweet

keep tapping boss do I mean? In fact one of them this is the one thing one of them popped up on a video call Elon Musk at the United Kingdom

parade on Saturday I could not believe What Elon Musk had a presence at that We're calling it a parade I don't think we could It's not a fucking fate

No it was a protest It was a rally It was whatever Let's talk a little bit about it to explain what it was yeah well actually that's a good segue in it because we are supposed to talk about that right yeah because you text me and said you sent me a george's flag and said are we going to talk about this no no because i'm interested look i i like i said the play i'm doing is in waterloo

so they were all literally all congregating outside of the theatre and and me yeah but i look i really believe in everybody's right to to assemble and and say how they feel and be in unison as long as they're literally not attacking anybody, right? Like I believe in that right and I stand by that right. This feels a little bit different because I think of the internet

I think if I was Muslim actually I think it would have been a different experience for me as certain if I was wearing a hijab or something. I think that... You didn't feel that unsafe, that feeling of lack of safety even just as a brown man. I get so terrified that these things are going to get twisted but me personally, I didn't

because look, I grew up in a place... you know adjacent to many small-minded towns and villages and whatever else and I grew up around yobbs and people who say you know like I said before the N word was thrown about when I was a teenager early doors like one of my closest mates called me in like in an argument just just like you know so Jordan I didn't know that fucking hell yeah that's just growing up in that was just going in brighton at the time I was one of like five black kids in my school yeah but I grew up in porta bellows so I didn't oh right yeah well look that's normal I played football against places like upfield or like peas pottage that these people do i mean not the fuck and these people

would be like you should go back to your own country and i literally even understand what they meant i just just jump on the spot and went done it you know what i mean i didn't understand what they meant but my point is people wanted to me i think because people are upset with the economic state of the country right that is a valid frustration that we all feel right it comes across as they're standing up for christian values it seems very anti-islam which i don't agree with, right? Because I think Islam is a peaceful religion and like every religion and congregation of people there's going to be bad actors. No one's perfect, like there's no perfect anything. Do you know what I'm saying? And obviously anti what they call illegal immigration, which is asylum

seeking, which obviously is a human right. And it is something that our government is responsible for is being able to process these asylum seekers. And for some reason, well, not for some reason. Like the frustration is they have turned their attention to the actual people who with nothing, fleeing and it's somehow their responsibility to understand how our government processes they're seeking of asylum which is obviously intellectually infuriating but what I'm trying to say is I'm trying to override my motion here and just say the reason why there's so much VIM is because our country is economically unstable right now right and for me the most ridiculous hypocrisy and there's many many double standards and hypocrisies that are happening in this for example

they're claiming there's no freedom of speech whilst talking on a stage in the middle of the capital city to like 200,000 people like who was stopping you from speaking. Also at one point someone said that apparently you're not allowed to celebrate Christmas which I don't know where they've been in England

for my entire life everyone celebrates Christmas a lot. Of course there's going to be fucking false information being bandied about. But look my point is I've gone on a whole thing my main point is Elon Musk came on a video call this is what does my head in right? This guy is a South African

African immigrant who went to America, right, and is now one of the richest people on the planet. He's one of these people who are so greedy, people are fighting over scraps. And then people with actually nothing are being shouted at. I don't talk about him anymore. He's a party pooper. He's a total party pooper. He's the issue. The original buzzkill. Who? Elon Musk. Elon Musk. No, look, even the racism that's being stoked, yeah, the genesis of racism was because of money. But when people are vulnerable, they are looking for unity and connection through any way possible

and I think that's also at the basis of this. But anyway, anyway, that's a lovely time to take a little break. Sorry, yeah, yeah. I think Musk took us nicely into a break. I'd like a fucking break from him. I think we all would. So let's have a little break.

Sorry. Are you ready? Are you really, really ready? Welcome back to Miss Me. What is that? Are you ready? Are you really, really ready? Keats, hurry up. It's all of your songs? No. No, no. I actually do know most Rizzle Kick songs. I could say that I'm quite a big fan. Really? Yeah. There was one that, um... The reason I live. No, it's when Harley's like really singing.

Yeah, the reason I live. It's on a second album. Is it? It's piano, yeah. I've got a really good memory. Jamie Cullams on it. That was a great one. Congratulations on the incredible comeback, by the way. Imagine if that didn't go well. I was so fucking proud of you. Like, it's always scary to like...

What, getting booked in that? I mean, I don't know. No, like having massive crowds in that. Yeah, I didn't it? That's risky shit. That's risky shit. Is it? I remember, yeah.

When I came back for my career, I was like, ooh, what if this doesn't go well? But it worked out quite nicely, and now we're here together doing Miss Me. I feel like more relaxed about Rosa Kix now. I feel like it was, I've done, I've done everything I want to do with music, to be honest. I just do it because I enjoy it. Oh, okay.

That's great news. That's probably why it will suddenly go really well again. Game theory. You have to do it, man. I'm bored of moving goalposts. Well, television is scaring the shit out of me at the moment. Like, just as someone who has ideas that I'm trying to get made, so frustrating. And I watch the NTAs.

Now, I don't really, well, that's the National Television Awards on ITV, hosted by That Joel guy. Is he called McDomit? Joel Domit, man. What do you mean that Joel guy? I don't know him. Like, I know him, he's on TV and stuff, but I can never remember, like, his surname. Fair. Joel.

Domit. Got it. He's one of three presenters active on telly right now. Yeah. He works. He might be the only presenter on telly. So in the National TV Awards, it's all voted for by the public, which is always quite interesting. interesting. Gary Linneker, one presenter of the year, you know, which is great.

Well, he's turned into some sort of free speech warrior. He said it demonstrates that it is okay to use your platform to speak up for those who have no voice. Very powerful shit, Gary Lineca. Someone did bring up something important, which I do think is a good counter argument to this, which is that not everyone can afford to lose their job at the BBC. I think if anyone could afford to lose their job at the BBC, it is Gary Linnaker. There are a lot of of hardworking presenters, producers, you know, across the board that probably feel that their position is being very shaken by speaking out. No, he did exactly what he was supposed to do.

He definitely did what he was supposed to do. And he believes that. I love Gary. I wore a linicotop for my Glastonbury show. And I met him afterwards, actually. And I understand that there's an impartiality malarkey because it's a whatever. Oh my God, I love that. Impartiality, malarkey.

I think, yeah, good on him. Damn right. presenter of the year. Big up, Linneka, brav. Big up. Yeah, and the people have spoken. I don't need I say anymore. It was a week of award shows, not just the NTAs.

There was also the Emmys and adolescents did very well. Well done, adolescence. Well done. I think I got like six awards or something. And that boy, that young boy, what a year he's having? Can you imagine plucked from this little amateur drama class, right? We're talking about Owen Cooper, the extraordinary. young talent.

He just won best supporting actor in a limited series at the Emmys. And then Stephen Graham did a really good speech about sort of equality across the board and how every single person on the set of adolescence was treated equally, whether you were in catering or whether you were a runner or whether you're an actor.

It's incredible that we have to say that, right? Yeah. And it just shouldn't just be. Surely that's how it should just be. Like we treat everyone with respect. Good. I hope he's all right that teenager, man. I can't.

It'll be fine. As somebody who experienced an explosion in my youth, that's hard, mate. To win an Emmy straight away. He's 15. So what now? Well, to the moon and the stars. Oh, really? Okay, so he's if he does another drama as a lead, then it doesn't win an Emmy, how does he feel?

Oh, God. Just saying. Just saying, just a little... No, it's cool. It's cool. Listen, it's great. I'm sure they'll get loads of views from giving it to a teenager in that. And he was outstanding.

But I just hope that he realizes that it's kind of silly. Like I want, you know, the production of that show in all of its essence is the camera work, the production company, the writer, everything, it was quite an achievement. But yeah, man, it's just mad. Awards are just mad as a concept. They're just a bit wild. I think the thing about television,

because adolescence, didn't you say that someone from Channel 4? I didn't say anything. Okay, sorry, someone told me. On street. It was Louisa Compton from Channel 4 who accused Netflix of being TV tourists, stealing all their shit. But also there is the example of Top Boy, which Channel 4 very bravely commissioned, and it was this brilliant, groundbreaking thing. And then they didn't recommission it, and Netflix picked it up and turned it into a global hit.

That is Netflix doing its job. As someone who is trying to get things commissioned by terrestrial channels, it's no joke. Good luck. And they are risk-averse, and it's quite difficult. It's very chicken and eggy, I think, to get things made at the moment. Like, you know, remember how Channel 4 started? I started my career on Channel 4 as a child. And even then, it was pretty fucking hard-hitting.

Look, I lost faith in Channel 4 the second it cancelled. Season 3 of Utopia. Utopia was... Wait, Channel 4 had Utopia, and then it gave it up. What? I didn't... What? No, do you know what I'm talking about of Utopia? I thought it was always Sky.

The what? Oh, I'm thinking of Euphoria. Jesus Christ, Keats. No. Which one's Utopia again? Utopia was this real quirky, like it got a cult following, quite wild show. In fact, again, this is another whole side note because the actual concept and storyline of the show was eerily, like, eerily close to like what happened in lockdown.

But anyway. Okay. It's called Utopia, but it was a culmination of like incredible British writers, directors, actors, Neil Maskell was in it. And it was phenomenal. When I say this, it was phenomenal, right? And season two finished on a cliffhanger. Channel 4 didn't recommission it.

It said not enough people were watching it. But it was so impressive that the rights were actually bought by David Fincher. They did an American remake, which, you know, it was difficult to live up to the standard of the British one anyway. But my point is, that's how impressive it was. Do you know what I mean? People were like, I'll buy that. Instead, they paid for like season 85 or whatever of the 100,

whatever the fuck some American thing. I know, don't. And ran that. And for me, that was just such, it was heartbreaking because it was like, that was such an incredible showcase of British talent on every level. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, man.

And that broke my heart. Well, what happens is they find something and then they eke it out until it's dead, which I feel like ruins the legacy of things. For instance, I haven't been able to get the internet at my new house, why I'm at Kelly's still doing this to me. So I was watching a lot of like normal,

whatever's like on the telly, telly. And a lot of Channel 4 is Gogglebox and first dates. Those shows were commissioned like 10 to 15 years ago and they're just churning them out over and over again. Yeah, because they can't, well, look, we have to acknowledge before we take these people apart, right? That, no, no, no. I don't want to take Channel 4 apart.

They're my literal TV home. Yes, I know, me too. I just did my first documentary of Channel 4, but I want to say that their issue is that people aren't watching TV anymore, right? So they're trying to deal with the transition onto on-demand services. So we have to acknowledge that there's less advertising spend, so there's less money, whatever, right? So that's essentially why it starts.

The issue is, and this is something really frustrates me, is that they have a smaller allocation of budget, right? So in their minds, they have to guarantee that people watch it. In a creative space, there are no guarantees. This is what's so annoying. This is what I mean.

And they say, this will work. I'll put money into that. But then every now and again, one random channel will do something daring. It blows up because everyone's like, this is new and exciting. and everyone's going, like, someone told me they shop traitors around for like a year before BBC was like, yeah, all right?

And now everyone goes, we need the new traitors. Yeah, of course. I know, but it's chicken and egg. It's like, we need to know we'll be successful before we commission it. It's like, no, we need to be brave enough to make something that people don't know they need yet. Yes. Exactly.

Anyway. When there was a surplus, I'm assuming, of money, when there was more money from ad spend and everyone was watching telly and it was a big moment every week, they could afford to go oh let's give that a go you know what the irony is this is the other man thing

yeah let's give that a go that's the energy let's give that a go yeah because for example I had a meeting with Netflix like I don't know a year ago a year and a half ago

about this show I've been working on for a long time which I'll talk about that in a second in terms of what Channel 4 did to me with that because that was fucked but when I went in with them they were talking to me

about what they had on their slate at the time right they mentioned baby reindeer as an afterthought they were talking to me about this this this this also we got this thing baby reindeer it's a bit left but we'll see but that's my point Netflix so in fairness

Netflix can afford to do that I guess but that is that was huge you have to be brave enough to have an idea that you don't know will work and then just fucking go for it and then suddenly you're at the front showing people how to do things okay I'm going to do the moan listen okay do the book so my book when the book proposal got bought by publishers I had meetings of like 15 to 20 TV production companies before I'd written my book. Wow. Because they were like,

we need stories, emotionally driven stories by men, which I agree with, right? So long story short, I go to the production company, we start working on this stuff. So I'm writing these scripts while I'm writing the book.

In hindsight, I think the scripts are going to be better now because obviously I'm still working on it because I've written the book. But then there's like a battle between some channels for the thing. Channel 4 win on the basis that they're going to be faster

than the other channel, right? In terms of green lighting this shit. they developed the ship for two years, okay? I'll get a green light on every level of commissioner up until the head of Channel 4. I'm then told to wait. I'm waiting for three to four months. Long story short, Ian Katz says no.

They didn't have any money. This is the punchline, okay? Two months ago, three months ago, I am brought in to the Channel 4 building, right, for a panel with Paul Brunson, right, where we need to talk podcast, he's incredible, with Simon Gunning, who runs calm, right? they sit me down in Channel 4

and show me a 45 minute presentation about under-representation of young men on television stop I swear to God and why mainstream channels aren't doing enough to write diverse stories about men they had me on the panel going what do you think

I was like they fucking said not I did this I tried to do this with you actually I brought them the script channel 4's had a really hard few years So if you're a viewer of Channel 4 and you feel like it's been all a bit all over the place, behind the scenes, they really have been going through a lot.

We've got to be a bit brave in this fucking game. That's how great shit happens. That's where the magic is. One of the feedback from a streamer, one of them was like, oh, we've got another one of these on a slate. I was like, oh, you have one other story about male emotion. God. I know.

God, what a traffic jam. Whilst you commission the seventh story of a fucking alcoholic police detective trying to solve a fucking murder in a neighbouring village. Jesus Christ. I guess where we're putting on our money is crime detective shows because Jesus Christ, I want to know about somebody going through a divorce. I don't want to know about them going through a divorce whilst trying to like ship a kilo of cocaine across the fucking ocean.

I'd like to talk to you about, but we'll do it next week, but I do want to talk about the amount of violence against women in TV shows. It's just fucking ridiculous. Again, because I was at my mum's and they have Sky. So when you're flicking down, you just see the titles of everything. and it's literally like murder in my village. Anyway, let's not end on a downer. You've got a play to do.

You've got previews to get to. Are you all right? You're nervous. It's okay. I wasn't until you just mentioned it. You didn't need me to mention that you've got a preview tonight to know that you've got a preview tonight, yeah? Okay, so that was a great episode.

I'm doing Miss Me Now. Fuck the haters. I don't know. They'll be some haters. You know, yeah, Lily's going to be missed, you know, so. That bitch, you'll be too. be back, but she's got stuff to do. She's got stuff to do.

Yeah, we're doing a really shit job being sick to. Sorry, Lil. The minute she's out the door, I'm like, blah, blah. Okay, I love you, Jordan Stevens. I'll see you on Monday for ListenBitch. The theme for ListenBidge this week is Blow Jops. Volatio, if you want.

Outrageous. Either way, we're talking about sucking dick. We will see you next. week. Bye. Bye, Makita. Orovo. Bye, Jordan. Love you. Good luck today. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and

Mikita Oliver. This is a Persephonicah production for BBC Sounds. Our culture can cancel someone in the blink of an eye. Celebrities, sports stars, politicians, influencers and royalty can all find themselves in the firing line. In the age of AI generated evidence, lawsuits written in

you need to pass the bar to decipher, how are you supposed to separate the fact from the fiction? That's where we come in. I'm Anishka Matandadowity and this is Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds. We'll mythbust, debunk, pre-bunk, fact-check and get to the truth behind the timeline. There are new episodes every week, so make sure you listen to Fame Under Fire and subscribe on BBC Sounds.