Miss Me? - Introducing... Rylan: How to Be in Love featuring Mel Robbins

Episode Date: August 16, 2025

Rylan sits down with powerhouse podcaster and author Mel Robbins. Mel teaches Rylan her ‘Let Them’ theory and explains how he can apply it to his relationships, as he hopes to embark upon his next romantic chapter. Mel also discusses the best way to get over a break-up and shares how she and her husband of 28 years have navigated the trials and tribulations of their marriage.How to Be in Love – Rylan has loved passionately, lost messily, and is now ready to rediscover what ‘love’ is. But does he need to look at love differently before he can find it again? Listen on BBC Sounds.Host: Rylan Assistant Producer: Ben Johns and Sally McLennan Producer: Katie Grant Production Manager: Francesca Bassett Executive Producer: Arron Fellows Music: Miguel d'Oliveira Assistant Commissioner: Will Drysdale Commissioning Editor: Rhian Roberts A Mindhouse production for BBC Sounds

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. Hi, guys, it's Ryland here. Now, I've snuck into this feed to share a clip from my podcast, Ryland, How to Be in Love. Now, in this series, I'm on a mission to understand love. How we find it, how we keep it, and everything in between. Now, I've been speaking with an incredible mix of experts and familiar faces. People like Stephen Frye, Louis Theroux, Matt and Emma Willis, Philippa Perry, and many more.

In this clip, you'll hear part of my chat with best-selling author, motivational speaker, and podcast host, Mel Robbins. With tens of millions of social media followers hanging on her every word, I thought it was time to see if she could help me too. If you'd like to hear or watch the full episode and explore the rest of the series, just search for Ryland, how to be in love on BBC Sounds or Eyeplayer. Hello and welcome to How to Be in Love, my visualised podcast from BBC Sounds. Now, I'm on a mission to find love again, and this podcast is hopefully going to help me rediscover what love is all about and how to find it. Today, I'm sitting down with the woman no one can stop talking about, Mel Robbins. A former lawyer turned author, life coach, and now host of one of the biggest podcasts in the world.

I mean, to be honest, she's my direct competition. But her phenomenal success was not overnight. It was only through 15 years of grappling with her own personal struggles that she's been able to produce such powerful content. Her latest best-selling book, Let Them, is equipping millions with the tools to change their relationship with themselves and their loved ones. So today, I want to get her expertise

on finding the balance in relationships, learning to let go of past ones, and the secret to a long-lasting love. Mel, it's so lovely to have you on the show. If there's anyone out there that I could talk to to get a tool offer for my toolbox to find love, I think it might be you. No pressure. I don't feel any.

It's up to you to follow the advice. I can give it. Well, my ears are going to be well and truly open for this next however. Well, hopefully your feet will be doing the walking because just listening doesn't change your life. Oh, listen, then I will. Okay, good. Or a light jog, maybe. Okay. See how I feel after it. Mel, I asked

every single person the same question, same first question when they come on this show, and that is, what is love and what does it mean to you? Has everybody given you a different answer? Every single person. Wow. Yeah. So love to me is something

that is so misunderstood, and it is so simple. Love is two things. It is admiration and consideration. That's all that it is. Admiring something about someone, so you hold them in regard, and you consider them, you have them in mind. And so, for example, if you have somebody in your life that you care about and you know that they do not take regular milk, they take almond milk, and even though it might annoy you, that they drink almond milk and they're

little fussy, right? That when you make their coffee in the morning with the almond milk, that's an act of love. That's the consideration. Correct. Correct. And you also have to be willing to allow that consideration and that admiration in. Okay. That's what I think love is. Well, that's it. We're done. Yes, we are. Thank you very much. You're welcome. I'll see you there. Love is obviously one of those topics that a lot of people, as you just said, complicate. It can feel hard at times. But going back, let's go to Little Mel. Okay. What was your idea of love when you were growing up when you were a child? Oh, I think, you know, when I was a little kid, I thought love was just attention.

Really? Yes, of course. Like I, because you, you, like if you think about being a kid, you feel loved when you're getting positive attention. And you tend to, at least a lot of us do, I did, you tend to start to equate being lovable with doing things that people cheer for. So the more that people are applauding, the more that people are saying nice things about you, the more that people are wanting to be around you, the more that people are bragging about you, the more that people are proud. Like all of those achievements and those things on the outside are actually what make you worthy of love because we tend to feel loved when we are getting positive attention. And so when I

was little, I think that's what I thought love was. And you looked up at your parents, I presume, for what love looked like from an outsider. Yeah, I think so. Like I, I for sure did. My parents got married very, very young. But I, you know, for me, my parents always seem to enjoy being around each other. When my dad came home, the dogs would bark and my mom would walk over and hug them and they seem to like really get along and be very good friends. And so I guess that is kind of the model. It is this sense of being with somebody that you really like. But, you know, it's funny is I also now that I'm married, I can tell that they irritate the hell out of each other, just like my husband and I do. This is my issue. Okay, what's your issue? Well, my issue is like I've, I've,

I was married for a long time, went for quite a messy public divorce. Okay, well, I'm sorry about that. You want to know something great? Go on. I don't know anything about your messy public divorce. I don't know anything about your ex. I don't know anything about your prior marriage. And this is a really important thing to understand.

Because when you're going through it, whether you're somebody who's a public figure like you or you're just a normal person in a town going through an ugly divorce where every neighbor knows, And friends are now picking sides, and you're now watching this all play out in the school pickup line. Everybody thinks that everybody knows every aspect of that and they don't. And it's important to understand that because a lot of times we keep ourselves trapped by that relationship or the circumstances have went wrong because we feel responsible somehow for that story because you think everybody's aware of it. And I'm here to tell you, not everybody is. And there comes a point where even though that happened to you, you've got to take the lessons from it, you got to learn from it, and you've got to actually move on. Well, this is where I feel I am because it's been four years since that happened.

And, you know, learning about yourself, I know in your marriage you've had your ups and downs, of course, like every single person does. I went through quite a bad breakdown when my marriage was over. And I'm almost glad that I did, which is a really strange thing. I don't think it's a strange thing at all. It's just a strange thing to say, I think, considering how bad I was, you know, what I had to put my mum through, you know, seeing her son like that, all of these, all of these things. But I feel now I'm at that point and can safely say at this point that I've been to rock bottom, whatever you want to call it. And I know I'm never going to let myself go back there. But what that's equally done for me is made me very cautious.

It's made me very, very frightened to open myself up to someone. Okay. It's made me frightened to trust someone. And I'm not as confident as my work persona in personal life. So let me answer your question. So I understand that you had a big breakdown. Yeah. And that you hit a rock bottom moment.

And all a rock bottom moment is, like they're really quite a gift. Because you know it's rock bottom because you hit something solid inside yourself. Yeah. And that's a resolve to change. And a rock bottom moment is when the pain of staying where you are is actually harder than doing the work that you've been avoiding to get better. That's all that it is. Like when I was researching and writing and building the case for the let them theory, one of the world-renowned experts said, you know, people only get sober. until being drunk is harder than doing the work, because it is a lot of work, to face what you

don't want to face and to be sober. And there is this balance between the pain you're willing to live with and getting to a point where you're no longer willing to do that to yourself, that you'd actually just face the things. And so the question that I have for you is that have you looked back and identified the moment where you knew this was not the right relationship for you. Yeah. And you ignored it. Yeah. Okay. So you know what that moment is. What is that moment? That moment for me was a number of moments actually. Okay. And it was very small. Of course. Very, very small things of just feeling like I was wrong about what I was thinking or I was wrong about if I'd call something out and be like, that's not right. to be told that actually I'm the one he's not right.

Yes. It's those sort of feelings. Got it. Okay, great. So what you now know is that the number one thing that you have to hold on to is that a relationship where somebody points back to you, whenever you go to them with a problem, like I'm feeling this way or this is a problem in our relationship, and their response isn't, thank you for telling me, how can we

make this better. Yeah. If their response is not that problem solving and listening, but their response is, oh, no, you're the problem. No, you're being dramatic. No, that's not how that happened. That is the number one signal for you that this is no longer a dynamic that is attractive or deserving for you, okay? And that's important because here's the thing I want to tell you. You talked about the fact that you think you're finally ready to open yourself up, you're finally ready to give somebody trust. The interesting thing about trust is that we mistake trust for something that can be broken. And when you think about trust that way, you've just handed all the power over to somebody else. When it comes to trust, you hold the power all the time. But we don't

always feel like that. Well, I'll tell you why. Because in those moments where somebody does something that is something that would violate your trust, we make the mistake of excusing it away instead of taking our trust back. You get to choose when you no longer trust somebody. You're always in control. And if you can get to a point where you trust yourself enough to go, I am so clear about what I will accept and what I won't in the way that a person treats me, that I trust myself to recognize that. When you're in that chair, you know, at the table, you are always in control because somebody, because that is a behavior pattern for a person to respond to any problem that you bring in a relationship and flip it into you being the

problem. But how did you get in that chair? Oh, my God. I think I got there because, you know, first I should probably say for the person who's listening or watching, you know, I'm about to celebrate my 29th year of marriage. I mean, congrats. Well, I think part of the reason why it's worked for so long is my husband's a Buddhist. So that helps. Yes. Everything just kind of floats up his back. Mine wasn't. Yeah, exactly. And so it sounds like you're married to somebody on that more challenging style of personality, which a lot of people bump into. And, you know, people only can give you what they have to give. Yeah.

And you have to know yourself well enough to know what is attractive and what is the kind of treatment that makes you feel safe. Yeah. And safe's the word. Yeah, safe's the word. Because I think the other thing about love that's really kind of crazy is that everybody thinks love is this like electric, tingly, like amazing, magical. Blasda, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, like all that kind of stuff. And to me, that's more like a feeling of anxiety and stress and uncertainty.

Okay. Well, because you're meeting somebody new and you don't know how this is going to go. And so you get attracted to the electricity of the unknown. And I think that we don't validate enough of the slow burn relationships where you're getting to know somebody, where you are falling into somebody. Attraction is very different than love. Because again, if you come back to my definition, consideration and admiration. And if you come to somebody with a problem and you say, hey, you know, the way that you talk to me in front of those people last night at the dinner party really, like, hurt my feelings. Well, you're just being too sensitive. Sorry, I've said a flashback.

Right? If that's the response, is that a loving response? No. Because first of all, they're not admiring anything about you. They're actually criticizing you. And second, they don't have you in mind. There's no consideration. There's just condemnation there. There's just criticism there. And so since we've like muddled up attraction and like this fear that we're never going to be like in a relationship, we're always going to be alone with what love actually is, which is consideration and We try to turn attraction into something that it's not. So for me, I can hold my hands up, you know, things I've done wrong in the past. And one thing I do or did like to do, I quite liked an argument. You like an argument? I love a good row.

Well, probably because you like attention. Maybe. Well, you know, the research shows that the couples that actually go the distance, they're the ones that are able to argue, but argue in a certain way. Well, this is the thing. Because I, when I argue, yeah, a lot of the time I do think I'm right. And a lot of the time, now I am right. Okay. I'm just going to put it out there.

Yes, sometimes the other person might be right. But you stand your ground, yeah, in a relationship. However, what is the best way to argue in a relationship? Because sometimes it is inevitable that you're going to have an argument with the person you spend in all of your time with, that you've chosen to spend your time with. What is the purpose of the argument? Oh, it could be anything. No, no, no. I'm dead serious about this.

Because if you're committed to being right, then that actually is not ever going to lead to a long-term committed, connected relationship. The purpose of an argument is to remove the emotional frustration between the two of you and to reconnect. And arguments when done correctly are an attempt to reconnect. Yeah. But too often, what happens is. is if all you want to do is be right and you're picking arguments because underneath all this, you just don't feel considered or admired or safe or loved, that's a completely different kind of argument. Like I argue with my husband all the freaking time. I mean, I am so irritating

to live with. He, he, we are the exact opposite. I mean, the man literally is really zen. He's really clean. He's really organized. His bathroom counter looks like a, like, like, he's a, Yes, looks like a shower. Mine looks like you tipped over an aisle at boots and like everything is everywhere. This is where we'd have a row, me and you, because I'm more like your husband. Yes, yes. And so the thing that is going to help you and what helped me immensely with love is the let them theory. So explain to me what the let them theory is. To me, the thing that is really just blown open my definition of love and change the way that I move through the world, It's changed the way that I am in my family and in my marriage is the let them theory.

It is so simple. It is so revolutionary. I spent 54 years thinking that the definition of love was really worrying about people controlling them, trying to change them, trying to motivate them, knowing what's best for them, trying to get them to talk about their feeling. Like just constantly controlling. Yeah. And everybody does it. Is that not right? No.

Oh. No. It's not right at all. And we all do it. all do it. We all have this hardwired need to be in control. This is why love feels scary. I am a control for it. Everybody is. It's about the style of the control. And you have the need to control because human beings have a hardwired need to feel safe. Okay. And in order to feel safe, you got to feel like you're in control of your day, your decisions, what's happening in your family, what's happening

in your love life. This is why love feels so scary because you feel like you're out. to control. It's on that list. Yes. And so the problem with this is that whenever another human being does something that irritates you or makes you worry or frustrates you or makes you sad, like let's say you texted somebody in a relationship with and they haven't text you back in a couple hours. Right?

Grimes my gears. I'm sure. Well, here's the problem. That person's behavior, which you cannot control. makes you feel worried it grinds your gears and then you make a fatal mistake you cross a line and you now try to control and change that person

why don't you text me and I don't want to be that person okay but hold on and the second that you do that you bump up against their need to be in control of themselves which means they're now going to push you away right

the more you let people be who they are and who they're not the better your relationships are so this is the the way of let them Yes, and here's why Let's talk about it in the positive When you let people be who they are When my husband lets Mel be a slob

When my kids let Mel their mom talk loud When you let someone be who they are and who they're not You actually are creating the space for love You are coming from acceptance you are allowing somebody to be who they are. Like, you know, of course I feel judged when I do these things because I know they're judging me. But if they're not reacting,

then I actually feel like I can be myself. I feel safe. And here's where it works with the negative because if you have a person in your life who's very challenging, if you're in a relationship with somebody who's disrespecting you, if you are in a relationship that makes you anxious because you do not know where you stand, right? the let them theory will revolutionize things because you need to let them disrespect you and let me tell you why

that doesn't mean you're allowing it it means you're recognizing it when you start saying let them when somebody treats you poorly first of all they've already been treating you poorly let them because when you say let them you're queuing to yourself i can't control or change as person. I need to recognize that how this person shows up in the world is who they are. How they treat me is how they feel about me. And instead of gaslighting myself and creating some fantasy in my mind that in the future this is somehow going to magically change like some unicorns going to appear. Or I can change you. Yeah. You can't change another person. Your best shot is to let them show you who they are. You're in control. This is the whole point about trust. If you can trust

yourself, you don't have to worry about trusting other people. Let me recognize quickly who I'm dealing with and let me ask myself, is this behavior attractive? Is this behavior something I deserve? Is this behavior something I can accept in my life? And I would say once you say, you know, because I really I am interested in you and I'm enjoying spending time with you, I just have to make this request. I need to be with somebody that when I am overly emotional or I come with a problem or something's concerning me, even if I have a ratchet tone of voice, that you actually lean in and say, how can I help? Is that something you think you could do or would want to do? Yeah. And they're going to say yes or no, and then you watch your behavior.

And then you know. if they, if you ask for someone to change and you tell them why it's important to you and then they don't let them because they're not changing and they just communicated that this thing that matters to you does not matter to them. And if the answer is no, then you should not be in that relationship romantically. See people very, very, very clearly because when we get attracted to people, we tend to explain away bad behavior because we are so in love with the potential. Yeah, we're like, oh, God, this could be amazing. Oh, I want the Ranger River and the two and the half kids and the this and I already see the

thing. I just have to skip over the narcissistic personality style. But I'll get there because I can just smile and fuck them into loving me and this will be great. And then magically they'll change without medication or any motivation to be a different person. Yeah. You're the one that's crazy because you're the one that's actually gaslighting yourself. Yeah.

And so let them is how you recognize who you're dealing with. Let me is where you remind yourself, I'm not stuck in any relationship. I'm not stuck at any job. I'm not stuck on any date. I'm not stuck in any situation. I get to choose what I think about this. Do I think this behavior is loving? Or do I think this behavior is disrespectful?

Do I want to lower my standards? Because I know what my standards are and this really isn't it. I've felt like in the past I've tried to change myself. Yes. Like I've tried to change the way I act or, you know, the way I show affection or to try and match someone's. You know, people talk about match their energy, match their energy. Oh, I don't believe in that. I don't believe that.

I actually don't believe in that because what you're trying to do, in doing that, you're giving all the power to the person. See, you tried to change in order to manipulate them into thinking or feeling something. Yeah. This is a very different approach. So for anybody that's like a people pleaser, you desperately want to be in a relationship, I used to be like this when I was dating. I would literally change my music tastes from punk to Scott to the Grateful Dead to country, depending upon who the person was that I was interested in, anything to kind of be near them. Find a common ground. Yeah, confined to common ground.

Do not do that because now you're giving the power to somebody else. You have to let people be who they are and then you've got to come back to yourself and say, well, what do I really like? because let's get real here. You're the one that's creating your life. The person that you pick isn't making it better. That gets to share it. Correct. Instead, we're trying to insert ourselves into someone else's story or insert ourselves into a story that we think we can only write if they choose us. No, that's not how it works. The more you say, let them, let me, let me, let people. Like, if somebody doesn't want to put a label on it, let them. That's a gift.

They're telling you. I don't like you. I like to have sex with you. And that's fine. It is. That's fine. It's fine. As long as I know.

Yeah, but don't be one of those people that then say, okay, okay, I'm cool with no label. And then start falling in. And then you are not cool with a label, so you just told a lie. You literally saw a red flag and then you ignored it. You then told a lie to them and to yourself. and then you know what ends up happening, you end up driving yourself crazy because you're trying to manipulate the situation into a label when it's never going to be one. They just told you that. If you're going to stay in something where somebody says, I don't want to put a label on this, I don't want a commitment. You don't have a right to resent them or be mad at them when it doesn't work out. They've been upfront about that. You're the one that's the problem because you're staying in something that is not what you want. not real. No. Well, what happens is you spend so much, oh, are they going to text me? What are

they doing? That you're in a relationship up here in your mind around the fantasy. Yeah. And then you're pissed off that this person who isn't acting and has never acted in the way that the person that you actually want to act, you are now mad at them. I feel like you're looking into my soul. Well, I'm just looking into my soul. This is, this is why this theory is so powerful. Because It is the truth about human nature that has been around since the beginning of time. This is stoicism. This is radical acceptance. The one thing in life that you have zero control over is whether or not another person loves you.

If you're going to show up on a date, do it because you want to. Yeah. Do it because it makes you feel like a good friend, not because you expect somebody to think something. So be a little bit selfish. Well, you have to start with yourself because it's the only thing you have power over. And if you're scared to be in a relationship, holding yourself back, I think is a major mistake.