Miss Me? - It’s Like Drinking Cordial Straight

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Jordan Stephens and Miquita Oliver discuss the challenges with reviews, finding your life path, and the qualities needed for leadershipThis episode contains very strong language and adult themes.Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan HaskinsMiss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Hello, wait, wait, I don't. No, no, I'm going to get, I'm going to nail this intro. Here we go. Don't make it too sound too intro-y. I know, this is what panicked me as I started talking. I was like, fuck me. I forgot I'm next to like the person who invented presenting and she doesn't like

it anymore. No, no, no, no. It's just that I do, sometimes I go. Welcome to T4 with me, Jordan Stevens. Sorry, not T4. Okay. All right. I'm ready. Makita, stop winding me up. I'm going to intro it. Welcome to Miss Me with me, Jordan, and Makita. That's it. What? No surname. That's it. No more than that. That is it because we don't do proper, listen, if you guys don't know already, McKita is allergic to introductions, it's actually kind of maybe a form of PTSD for her. Anyone saying full names in some kind of rhythmic pattern and she

starts to get itchy. Or unison. Hate unison. Come on. Unison's quite fun. No, but I interviewed too many boy bands that were forced to speak in unison. I always felt so sorry for them. Crazy times. So anyway, hello. This is me, Jordan and this is you, Makita. That's it. Don't need that. Hi. Hi. How are you doing?

I'm getting excited. I don't know. You didn't pre-warned me about the authority of introducing the podcast. Well, I feel like It's been like, what is this? This is our third week. It's a third week. And what do they say? In Buddhism, they say three weeks is how long it takes to implement real change or to find a new rhythm.

Did you literally just make that up? Yeah. In the name of Buddhism. That is amazing. I can't question it because I am not a Buddhist. But in training, like PT, training with a trainer or just like going to the gym, if you ever try and implement, and I just know it from training, If you try and implement a new habit, they say it takes three months to get that in place. Three months.

That's true. That is true. Not three weeks. The purposes of this. 66 days was what I was going to say. That's how to shift the habit. Apparently, I learned that from, that's mostly from breakups, you know, when people break up. And then the person's like, I can't stop thinking about it.

And I'm like, wait, 66 more days and you'll be fine with no contact. Oh, well, I always do. The time spent together. Not just like the actual together, but just while they were in your life and in your brain, that times two is how long it takes to get over someone. I thought that was it. Wow. That's interesting.

Just double it. It gets tricky once you get into marriages. That's pretty wild. So you'll be good in 14 years. You'll be fine. I just broke up with my wife of 14 years. I'm figuring out how to get over it. It's like, what, Michaia says,

you're going to be screwed for about 28 more years, actually. Yeah, that's fine, though. You can do other things. That theory is for flings, only based on flings. It's been a good week in my life and your voice notes this week. You just sounded easy like Sunday morning. Did I? Did I?

Yeah. Yes, okay, that's good. You sounded like, so I guess it's three weeks of the play. No, I think my opening night was last Wednesday. Oh. But I have been, I did do a week of previews before then, so it is tricky. And then a month of rehearsal before that. And I guess I'm, I have eased into the play in terms of like I know the play.

and we're doing the play every night and I kind of know roughly how to deliver the play. But fuck me, is it hard? It's tough. I just... I did my first double day on Saturday and I was like, not even physically,

like mentally I was like fucking hell. No, matinees, I cannot get my head around. Yeah, I've got two, eight shows a week, yeah. And like every night, this is what's so wild about theatre because it's like a fixed situation, people from all parts of my life are just turning up. Literally, I don't think there's been a single night

when someone I don't know hasn't been there. And they haven't told you, obviously. No, no, no, many of them haven't. Last night, Cat Burns was there and I think she just went to came for, for fires. She didn't even letters me or nothing. She just kind of came through with her mate, yeah.

It might have something to do with that four-star review in the Guardian. Yes, except Makita, I felt like last night was a tough one, you know? After said, brilliant review. A load of good reviews, a small handful of less than good reviews. Oh, so you read. So you actually went to look in? No, I didn't. I was told.

Listen, I was told not to read the reviews, yeah. So I just swirved the whole thing. I've just been trying my hardest every night. And then everyone told me about the reviews because they were good. Right, okay. Who told you about the less good ones? We should keep that to ourselves. Because I was presenting an award at a show on Sunday,

which was sponsored by one of the websites, magazines, companies that gave us a bad review. Oh. So obviously I mentioned it when I'm presenting. the award because I thought it was funny. So you mentioned it, good. Yeah, I thought it was funny. But yeah, they gave us, but apparently they're notorious for bad reviews.

But you never know, because listen, this is the crazy thing about theatre. Every night is different. Like, every night the audience is different. Sometimes punchlines land. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes the show's faster.

Sometimes it's slower. Thank God. Honestly, it is blowing my mind how sensitive the chemistry of theatre is. It is really something. I've had shows so far where people have coughed on punchlines, coughed,

on points of important information. Like, yeah, and it changes the heart Someone opened a camping flask in silence the other day Like, it was During a moment of silence Like, you know, some people will wait for like, you know what I mean? If you got like, I don't know, something ratily or ice No, it's like eating a crisp quietly at the theatre

You have to find a way Firstly, crisps in the theatre is absolutely wild But I'm just saying that like if you, I think, have some kind of social of spatial awareness You would at least wait for a laugh Sure. Or noise or one of us shouting at each other or something, and then you do the noise.

When I'm saying that there are moments of tense silence in the play, in this moment of the tent silence, this woman on the front row, right? There's like nine other rows, opens a camping flask. How does a camping flask sound when it's opening? And then, and then, you're fucking kidding me. Like, just pick a seat in the back or something. We learned this from pigeons last week.

You're very good at sound effects. I'm not. I'm not. You just did water flowing really well out of a flask. Very nuanced. That's just, I've retained that sound through trauma. Well done on the good review though. Because it's just, what I don't understand is being able to,

not even being able to, having to come back and do another show after a bad review. Like I just wouldn't, I don't think I'd have it in me. I can't even get my head around the idea. I'm so glad that. the reviews look at God, right? Thank God. Listen, I've had my first share of bad reviews. There are some people I really trust. Like, I do really trust Alexis Pardidigris from The Guardian when he's talking about music.

Oh my God, that's so mad. He was like the first guy you ever interviewed me in The Guardian. He's a G. He's great. He did Rizzle kicks back in a day. He did a whole interview piece when we were kids. Oh, bless him. And then also, when it's food, I really trust Jay Rainer and I really trust Charles Corrin.

I doubt. You've lost me. I'm not a food person. Do you not read restaurant reviews? No, I don't care. Oh, you don't care. Well, I had to be a food critic, Jordan. Oh, sorry.

Yes, of course, because you happen to have a mother who's arguably the best cook in the world. No, that's not why I got the job. Oh, sorry. Right, that's it. It's because I'm a cultural commentator. No, you're a cultural commentator. Sorry, yes, that's all it is.

There's nothing to do with your mum. No, that was just someone introduced me the other day at something and said, now cultural commentator, Mikito. I was like, what? You technically are. Okay, that's better than radio. presenter, which just isn't even true. We must eliminate presenter.

Yes, absolutely. Broadcaster. Broadcaster. Yeah, when I had to do that, it was quite scary. And so I don't know how people can be, can go into a restaurant, eat the food and then be critical. Like, even if it wasn't very good, I just, I don't think I'd be very good at that. All I did was cast the music in my review.

I think for me, what I find food is, I mean, that's, man. I guess it is to an extent subjective too, because, you know, people have a quiet taste they come from certain cultural backgrounds like some people really engage with simple concoctions you know but then there is like an unbelievable art to putting together like different completely contrasting foods and then creating a taste that feels simple is amazing i mean i i have had tasting menus and shit before and i am blown away i'm not like anti food i'm just not you know some people are really into food harley for example is really really into food well and you a guest judge on great british menu with mum one year i don't

think I was a judge. I feel like I was just there for some food. Was I supposed to be judging that? I think you were judging, Jordan. No, no. Oh, did I? I was just eating. I was with Keisha from Sugar Babes, just living my best life. Maybe you just went to the banquet and that would have just been eating. I went to the banquet. I went to the banquet. No judging. Okay, because mom, obviously, she's the presenter now of GBM, but before she was a judge and I was like, in the beginning, she was very like, yeah, I just don't think, before she got the job, she was like, yeah, I just don't think you can judge food and then she got that job and was like, well, actually.

You made an amazing point though. You have, when you've spoken about reviews and critique, you've identified the specific person and you're basing your appreciation of their reviews on like, you know, a mean average of all the reviews they've done. That's actually quite interesting. Yes, I guess it would be on an average of what they've done. You're trusting a single person's taste

and then you yourself have decided that person's subjective taste is interesting to you. Yeah, well, I suppose because Jay Rainer, for instance, he's not just talking about the food he's always talking about the chef and the story and the background and the history of the food of the dish of the area of the neighbourhood so I suppose I feel like we care about the same things

not necessarily whether the dish was beautiful you know someone should be reviewing reviewers now you think about it the review of the reviewers we should be reviewing we should be auditing these reviewers well it's just incredible that they still hold so much power I mean, it's kind of nice. It is nice, but I guess, so for example, if we're talking about theatre or music or whatever,

the only thing that I do question sometimes is I've noticed the pattern with certainly music reviewers. I guess the thing is, like, sometimes I see people review things who are quite mismatched with that experience. So with music, for example, they'll review an album. But if I click on the other things they've reviewed, they've, like, never, they haven't reviewed an album for like two years. and the one thing they have reviewed is like a completely different genre. Right. It's finding that balance between somebody who's not just going to give five stars best thing in the world because they're totally, you know, immersed in that artist or whatever

and they're biased to that degree. But then also you can't just be throwing people in who have no interest in the particular thing. And then with something like theatre, it has another element of jeopardy because the young vicar is a subsidised theatre. Theatre is a, you buy a ticket, you go in person. The creative arts, the creative arts of this country, I know is under threat and there are some places that will have the power to make or break a piece of art based off of somebody's subjective opinion of it. That's scary. I don't think

people should not be critical but that that freaks me out that somebody can you know shift an entire career a run a campaign to three four years of work and they might have been having a bad day. Oh yeah absolutely or a restaurant Jordan. Mom went to I won't say the name of the restaurant It's a hotel with a restaurant and she they were like my mom's like I'm going to post this food is so lovely it's been so beautiful here and they were like that would be really nice because we just had the most scathing review that really has fucked us oh see that sucks and I actually by chance then read it and was like it was actually like comical how much this girl was tearing this place down and I just thought that's a lot to take on your shoulders though that's not just like and the food was bad it's like that's um damning for like 50 jobs but if the food is bad she just did her job it is difficult because you do have to have an element of fairness and balance in order to make sure that we trust the person when they say something's good and we trust it when they say it's bad yes but yeah I do think unfortunately I do worry this is just a thought I had yesterday because I think someone else

was talking to me about another review and I started to think this I was like that is quite there's quite a lot of responsibility now because it's we're not in the same spaces we used to be where there's lots of money in the arts and you can put things on and you can afford to fail. I worry that right now more than ever we need to be really conscious about what it is that we are encouraging people

to do and see and experience. But it's tough because, you know, art does need to be driven by taste. How was it in your school, the arts? Was it funded well back then? Secondary or college? Secondary, because I've just been with Phoebe's kids all weekend. I was babysitting so she could go rave at Lydia's house party.

I'm an incredible aunt. and Phoebe's son goes to your school, your old secondary school, doesn't he? Performing art school, yeah. No way. He didn't tell me that. Jesus Christ, okay, so it was really, it was funded heavily and really a lot of attention focused on the arts in that school. I don't know, I guess, I don't know in comparison to other schools.

I just know that it said it was a performing art school. I don't know if it was like particularly, I mean, it wasn't like the teachers were really into it or anything. Yeah, but you had music and you had drama. on a show. So every year there's a show, maybe two shows and you can audition to be in the school play and I had some pretty hilarious experiences with that. Yeah, I heard you talk about with Lily. Wait, did I talk about the banana thing in South Pacific with Lily? Yes. I've got another one. Okay. Okay. Do you want to hear something that will make you laugh? I'll tell you this and then we're done. The play after that one in the next year, with the high of having performed

seven parts in South Pacific, I went into the audition for the school production of Featherboy, right? in feather boy the musical there was a part for a Jamaican boy oh no stop it's written in patois no please no makita it was written in patois i was the only black boy that auditioned there had no other black boys i didn't get the part so they gave it to a white boy a white boy who didn't change the patois no no i'm sure he took it yeah he delivered the entire thing in full patois sorry that's not funny maybe he did a great job he was fucking awful What are you talking about? He was a good actor, but like, just at least changed the parts and non-patwa.

And also, I didn't get it out of spite because the guy doing an audition thought I was taking the piss because I forgot. I'm sorry, I just remembered this. You're supposed to go to the audition with a song and the monologue. And I went with the song. And I was so focused on a song, I forgot about the monologue. So I did the song, just about pulled it off. And then he's gone, what's your monologue? I was like, and all I could think of on the spot was,

I have a dream by Martin Luther King, but I didn't know the speech, so I just made it up. Right, starting with the first line and continuing how you felt. I just went like, I have a dream that one day little black kids can like dance with little white kids. Did you get in? I got chorus. Okay. I had to watch this white boy do a Jamaican part.

I mean, it's bordering on offensive, actually. Bordering. Well, I had to, I don't know whether I've told this, though, but I started a gospel choir after seeing Sister Act 2. Iconic. In our primary school, I was like, right, well, obviously, if we're going to have a good time, we need to start a gospel choir. We started it, and then this uptight bitch sort of started to take it over.

She was like, want to, like, the, like, helpers in the classroom. And then kicked us out of my own gospel choir and then went on to just fill it with white kids. It was really upsetting as a journey. Can you sing? no I thought to say that it feels like you should be able to

with that husk without husk I know I was thinking about this yesterday as I sang hum to myself quietly I was like it's such a fucking shame

because your mum's your mum's got pipes my mum can sing even though we're not blood related Mabel Tyson Nana Phoebe can kind of sing you feel like you should have

picked up the aura but osmosis si si I didn't got that But my mum can really sing She was a singer When I was a kid But I can't sing for shit

It's just for talking You can probably rap if you wanted to No You got a little husk for the rap No Can you sing? Yeah Yeah I mean

I quite like when you sing On Rizzle songs Well I've also made my own music Which is singing Yes I've heard some of that As well You can sing It must be so beautiful

I'm not like I'm not Yeah I'm not the most confident Singer But I can You know if I'm in my reign I can, I've been told I've got a nice tone. Is it like Stormsy when he's like,

I'm blinded by your life? Stormsie's got a great singing voice, I love his voice. I like his singing voice. But he sounds trepidacious and a bit like he's still trying to figure it out, which I love so much about it. He sounds vulnerable. Must be all those nuggets. Right, well, let's have a break then.

We'll see you after the break. Welcome back to me. miss me. Welcome back to miss me. Did I not do it right? No, I just thought we could try unison. You don't wind me up because I want to do it. I'll make you do it.

After three. Three, two, one. Welcome back to miss me. I'm not really going to do it. Okay, so I'll do it. I'll do it. Three, two, one. Welcome back to miss me.

Okay, listen, let's fuck that. We'll do it. We'll do it next time. Okay. Keith. Yeah, I'm sure people can't wait to hear us. I get that wrong loads of times over and over again. So two shows ago, I figured out your life path.

Apparently I did this in Kenya as well, but I can't remember. In the pool, in Kenya, we were together for 10 days or something on our prospective Christmas holidays. And all at our Uncle Nick's house that he got for us all, it was beautiful. It's not his house, actually. It's just one we rented. And in the pool, you said to me, when's your birthday time? What time were you born? No, just when's your birthday?

Just when's my birthday? You knew that, though. Maybe the year. I don't know. I literally still don't know when your birthday is. I've already forgotten it. Thanks, Ram. So anyway.

You don't know where my birthday is. You called me a catracorn the other day. January. The what? 17th? Oh, mate. That's atrocious. Is it not that?

For one, I told you as an Aquarius, literally on this show, and that starts on January the 20th, so I don't know what you're thinking about. 27th? 25th. 27th is my dad, though. So there you are. That'll do.

Anyway, Jordan goes to me. What are you? August the 9th? Fuck you. It is. upsetting, isn't it? Is it August the 9th? It's April the 25th.

October the 5th. Okay, April the 25th. Oh, the 25th, same day as me. Wow. Okay, there you go. Anyway, he said to me, your life path is nuts. And the only things,

the things that get in your way are addiction. Drugs, yeah. It is actually wild. It's wild. So you are a life path, as a disclaimer for anybody listening. I personally love this stuff.

My belief is that, you know, everything vibrates, numbers vibrate, all that kind of stuff. sound a bit wacky but I'm into it numerology some ancient thing I love it so you have loads of life path numbers and from what I've gathered they seem to be more specific to the people I've spoken to than something like star signs I don't know why it just feels that way and I can give you examples actually I am a life path 11 and you are a life path 33 so and they're called

master paths right but they're not better there's no like elitism in in numerology it means that the vibration is like more erratic so you can you have like sometimes a higher level of responsibility slash ability but the plummet is quite substantial if you're not on top of your shit and the only other 33 I've ever met is actually my dad and it is called the world healers the rarest life path 33 stop and you get to that life path number by adding together every individual number of your birthday and then having a final number and you usually add the numbers together

and you get a single number but if the number is a repeated number like 11, 22 or 33 you just leave it. Okay, alright. But it is fascinating and I want you to look it up because it is fascinating

and it does specify things like addiction and responsibility being weighed down by a kind of an extended empathy like and by extended empathy I mean, you know, taken on too much from other people or that kind of stuff

and you know some people may say that it's um it can be like astrology and that it's vague but i my story with life path is that i read a life path my first life path i remember thinking that isn't me i had miscalculated my birthday it felt wrong yeah and then when i recalculated it it was crazy so basically is that what's standing in my way i'd have to look it up a predilection towards addiction also holding empathy just holding so much empathy for others it's not i mean empathy's all these words has just been bastardised by life. I know. Poor empathy. It was a great word about five

years ago. Dedicated to unconditional love, compassion and upliftment of humanity. That's true. We'll leave it there. Perfect. That's me in a nutshell. Seriously. All of these things, all spiritual guidance will essentially have an obstacle

to do with our ego. You know, that's built from the world around us. Okay. Well, talking of egos, let's talk about Trump. I wonder what fucking his life. What a segue. What a segue from life path.

Oh my God, I'm going to figure out Trump's life path. That's what I was going to say. How do we figure out his life path? Well, if we have to believe his birthday for a start. If I'm the same one as him, what if he's also a master class?

Oh God. I have the same life path as. Prince? No. Think he's the worst possible person to share life paths with. Oh my God. And the reason why, and when they talk about that.

Hitler? Yeah. Oh, my God. What they say is, so what my point is that they use that. They talk about it, obviously, on these spiritual sites, they're not shying away from the fact that he's the life buff 11, but they talk about that's what happens if the energy gets sent another way. Well, it's like how do you use your power for good or evil?

Yeah, yeah, it's a thin line. It's a thin line. This is deep. I really want to know Trump's life path now. Is he a tourist? Do we share a star sign? June 14th, he is 1946. So wait, fuck me.

He was born in 1946. I know. Big day. He's five plus one six, six plus seven. While Jordan is working out Trump's life path. He's had quite a crazy few weeks. So it's just been crazy. He's been walking around saying things like he loves to do.

Do you know what? It's a bit like elf when he's like, I'm in the house and I'm singing. Trump just likes to go to places and say things. What are the some of the things he said? We had all the Kimmel stuff. We then had Trump making unproven link between... This was what the actual headline was. Donald Trump, President Trump, makes unproven link between autism and paracetamol.

Yeah, that's wild. You know life is stupid when that is a headline. But the problem is that we have these kind of flippant statements, which he loves to go around town professing and then really serious shit starts to follow said flippant statement because the FDA are now they're going to change the labels on paracetamol

to like warn yeah to warn pregnant women I'm sorry you've lost me there I thought it was like quite quickly refuted by the pharmaceutical industry yes but I think the FDA what did he say Kennedy what sorry RFK

I'm not sure we should be trusted that bloke Yeah, Robert F. Kennedy said the FDA would begin the process of initiating a safety label change on the medication and launch a public health campaign. Has he said that? RFK said that. Well, then, alas, we have not reached a conclusion. He is not the person who I'd be looking to for affirmation on whether or not this is... I understand, but he is the bloody health secretary in America. Well, I know now, now that you've told me my master, my master path, there's lots of empathy in there, somewhere. But I wonder if you need a somewhat psychopathic part of you

to be a great leader. Because I met a great leader last week with my mother. Go on. Can you say the name or what? Why are you laughing? This is two weeks now. You're on some embargo. What the fuck is going on?

No, so there's this brilliant charity called the This Day Foundation run by Gary. I've got to get his surname otherwise. I can't be like. He's one by this guy called Gary. By Gary Lilica. No. It is Gary Lubner. Incredible South African guy.

He founded this day in 2023 and it's sort of driven by Gary and his vision to create a fairer future for new generations. They do a lot of work with youth in South Africa and in the UK. They do a lot of work with another foundation and they invited leaders, in their words, of media, sport, culture. and the arts to come to Gary's penthouse in Marlon, meet with someone very important. And it was quite an interesting room. It was like me and mum, Gary, not Gary, Gareth Southgate.

Oh, almost. Yeah, who's such a, what a lovely guy. My mom and him are like best mates now. And then Michael Sheen, brilliant actor. He's great. And then couple, Martin Lewis, the money guy from this morning. He was also there. But we were all invited to a round table discussion with Obama.

About what? About the way? Come on. I was with Obama last week. About what? Whatever we wanted to talk about? Everyone got one question. And luckily, me and mums was a joint question.

Because I tell you, when that man walks in the room, you get a bit shaky. He's got such, Jordan, this interesting, we're talking about what makes a great leader, right? Because I was like, well, what is, why are we all here fluttering around? because this man's about to enter the room. And he walks in and he has this kind of beautiful power, but he holds it with such grace, and he can fucking dress. He holds it with such grace and he makes you feel,

I've been really trying to think about how I articulate this, he makes you feel like his power is yours as well, like it's something that you possess inside you. But he's not coming in the room saying, I'm not a powerful man, no, no. But it's like a power to be shared. and it empowers you I guess that's what it is

it's empowering his power and when he talks you listen we all had a question luckily mine got lost in my mum so it was just mum that had to look Obama directly in the eye and ask him a question she asked a question about bigotry and the fact that we can see

where bigotry comes from and where it lives now we see the faces of people who are spouting bullshit all over the place is that better or is it better when we don't know where it's coming from? Is it better to see them in the clear light of day? And how do we find peace within that?

Good question. And Obama said something really interesting. Barak said something really interesting. He said, do you think I can call him Barak? Probably not. Barry. Barry. He said, always remember the idea of two things being true at once.

And somewhere in between those two truths lies the interesting questions. So you have to listen. this is to people that just you have such opposing views about anything on you have to listen you have to be kind even when people are not being kind to you and you have to invite those people into a kinder conversation I agree with that and me and mom have been trying to put that into play yeah it's kind of hard you realize how much you're like he's a fucking dick I don't agree with him and then you have to find this other place of like what would make him feel this way why would this man think this about this and where can I

meet him in a kind of place so that I find peace and something else happens from this rather than just opposing each other over and over. I think that's kind of my natural position actually in terms of discussion. I found my desire to want to connect to people I disagree with. Similar to what I spoke about a couple of weeks ago in terms of me on my algorithm or whatever, I just am interested in people and I'm mostly interested in emotions and what drive human beings regardless of their thought that what they identify with what drives them into those choices and politically it's a weird place to be in because I I truly do believe in liberalism but because of the extremity of circumstance that we're going through right now I think a lot of people who have liberal

ideas aren't necessarily being liberal in how they in how they carry them you know I don't think I'm on the same page as Barack Obama I I don't know I what do you mean you just said to me that you come from a place of kindness and understanding yes I agree with that statement he made 100% yes I'm unsure about his presidency and some of the things that happened during that presidency and I am sensitive to leaning too much into how someone looks appears and delivers things rather than like what they're actually doing yeah absolutely and I was slightly confused by them like becoming influences after but you know it's well I think I think it's really easy to be completely wrapped up and bowled over by his charisma

Yes, of course. It's undeniable that he knows how to deliver. But I'm not just saying he's a nice, charismatic guy. When he talks, I listened and I felt a lot of what he was talking about. He said something about working towards, always working towards the next 45 years. He said, you have to be so passionate and so convinced about what you want to do in this world and in this life you get and what you want to put out into the world and how you want to look after other people, that you have to be okay with it, having impact that you're not even around for.

you have to be thinking about the next 45 years, not the next five years. And that was deep. That's being of service to your community. Fuck, yeah. And I love being of service. Like, I have to say, I did some fashion week stuff the other day. And it's fine, you know, it's part of work. But like, I need to be in service and of service.

It lights my fire. Speaking like a true life path 33. Thank you. There we are. Oh my God. Thank you. I really do feel like a. it came full circle back into my master plan.

I think just to put some perspective on leadership as well, obviously leaders in a, again, in inverted commas, democratic society. I mean, these leaders are a manifestation of the public. And one thing I've seen, literally in this, the most recent and shockingly rapid development of the internet and social media and information, we are terrified.

We're so easily shaken to a point, hysteria and we're seeing it because a lot of people are living in a hyper reality. Yo, I can remember when I said this, but going on our phones right now, for me, it's like drinking cordial straight from the bottle. Like, it is that it is so over-concentrated. Oh, that's your metaphor. Got it. That's good. Yeah, we've got to dilute this shit. I've seen people comment on it. London, we've lost the capital city. It's full of crime. It's off the handle. It's like, it's literally compared to 20 years ago in the 1990s, Manchester was called Gunchester.

In 2006, this is a year before the iPhone came out. So 2006 was when Gunchester ended. So basically, in 2006, one guy, this is what I read about, one guy snitched on the crime family in Manchester. They all got arrested and the murder rate halved. How mad is that? And the reason I'm looking up, look that out, by the way, is because I was working on a script.

You know what's a good antidote to the internet? what the weekend papers yeah true i feel like when i read the weekend papers i am like enamored with this great country and all the things all the different stories and people and arts and culture and life and history and like i swear to god it makes me like love the world around me yeah and that is what i look at more than the internet these days a nice supplement yeah and you and you should do and that's how it should be. We should be having really and truly news should be something that is conveyed

to a population after due diligence. And it's something that has altered the state of the population and people. And people are coming out with wild inaccurate information and statistics that are being peddled by literally the president of the world. And we're wondering why everyone's in a state of hysteria.

And we'll end it there. Thank you very much. You're fucking so far. What else was on the list? We've got two more minutes. No, exactly. I was like, what twisty end did you want to give your political tirade?

Well, no, you stopped my one about Trump and rightly so. Do you consider yourself a leader, Makita? Good question. Yes. Yeah? Mm-hmm. I do see myself as a leader because I come from punks and, like, they... I was talking about this with Tall Phoebe and her girlfriend, Takeda right now.

We were literally talking about the fact that, like, we're from punks. And I don't mean, like, people who listen to punk music, I mean, people who lived a certain way and did not follow shit. I really like to be an originator. I like to be first and I like to follow my gut and my instinct. I hate following the herd and being part of the crowd. So I think that does make me a leader. And I care about people.

Which is cool. But I just emphasis on the fact that there needs to be a balance of both. I hear that in terms of the mentality and being part of it. What do you mean? Follow the crowd a little bit. Yeah, sure. I do sometimes. Yeah, just because you can't just have.

I just, I don't know. I don't know if you can, can you have a society full of leaders? I don't really know. It would be quite bizarre. No. Anyway, we must shut the fuck up. Okay, bye Keats.

Okay. I don't mean just shut the fuck up, but I got to go. And you've got to go. But I will see for listen bitch on Monday. The theme is. Lyrics. Besides the lyrics.

At the same time as you. There you go. There's that unison. We were so looking for. Boom. I will see you on Monday, darling. Au revoir. Pigeons for Life. Pigeons for Life.

Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Mikita Oliver. This is a Persefonica production for BBC Sounds. Hello, I'm Jack. And I'm Rosie. And we are two of the hosts of Lunchbox NV, a food podcast from the makers of QI and no such thing as a fish. Each week we dive into a different dish or ingredient and uncover tons of fabulous foodie facts about the history, science and culture behind food and drink.

For example, did you know that the Aztecs enjoyed a dollop of peanut butter on their roasted grasshoppers? Or that it was a 12-year-old boy who figured out how to grow vanilla on farms. So if you want to find out how avocado trees are bisexual or what the first ever meal eaten on the moon was, then Lunchbox, End, is the podcast for you. Listen now on BBC Sounds.