Miss Me? - Joseph’s Fiennes Now

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss Lily and JADE at Mighty Hoopla, Dear England & actionable change.This episode contains very strong language, adult themes, and maternal death in childbirth. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producers: Caillin McDaid and Scarlett Hutton Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. On the open road, conditions change. Your composure doesn't have to. But technologies like terrain response to and clear sight ground view, Range Rover Sport brings confidence and control the challenging conditions. Explore more atrangerover.ca. The following episode contains strong language, adult themes, and discussions surrounding the topic of suicide.

Her name was Lola. She was a show girl. I actually don't know the next line, but we have to take it to Copacabana. Copacabana. Live and direct from Brazil. Or the girlfriend Ipanima is like in there. Hasn't Brazil giving us so many ditties?

Oh. I'm nearer I'm epanima than I am Copacabana right now. Okay, got it. And if you're, if someone is like, what the hell is going on? Yes, Jordan's in Brazil. I'm in Rio. He's in Rio. I'm in Rio de Janeiro.

Rio. This isn't just to fuck around. No, I was working, thanks. Yeah, you've got a role, an important one. We'll go into it a bit later. But first, tell me about Brazil because I've never been. And Garfield went last year and FaceTime me from Kobe Cabana Beach. And I was like, whoa, dude.

Well, okay, so you don't want me to talk about the. reason I'm in Brazil. You want me to talk about just Brazil? Yes, in a sort of like, you know, we lost the wonderful Judith Chalmers last week, who was the host of Wish You Were Here, Seminal, Seminal British Travel Television. And because you just keep being in different places, I think you can be our sort of travel. I would love to be a new Judith Chalmers, sure. There's many places I wish I was. Exactly.

Wish you were here. Uh-huh. So let's start with Brazil. Tell us everything about Brazil. Okay, listen. So this is my third time in Brazil. I went once when I was a teenager. I went once when I was deeply heartbroken.

And I've returned this year for a conference. As a man. Yeah. I would say, listen, I went to this party. Was it last night? No, night before last. And it was like this little, I guess it was equivalent to like a warehouse rave or something.

And when it wasn't like a huge, but it was like a big open space. loads of art shit loads of people spilling on to the street Brazilian squat party

not really a squat party because it felt more organised than that but like have you had those vibes but like the like spectrum of expression

in the party was wicked like genuinely like yo the vibe crazy the music crazy also there is just like there really is

there is really like very sensual energy in Rio people joke people joke about it. I mean, especially around carnival, people are like, literally you can't move

without being kissed in carnival. That's what people say, right? But like, right, no, no, people do say that about carnival. I mean, now it's not carnival. I think it's winter now, actually,

in Brazil, which obviously hilarious because I'm wearing a shirt. But here's the best way to put it. When I first arrived, I wanted to have a walk around the neighborhood that I was in, and my cousin, who lives here, suggested this place that I go to,

right? So I went down to this bar. I had like a, you know, zero percent, a little beer, and I was just reading. And there was a couple in front of me, just started snogging, right? But then she just went to the toilet.

Like, bro, they were snogging. Honestly, they were engaging in passionate. Their sexual energy. Like, like, as if she was leaving to go. As if she's leaving for more. I was like, oh, God damn. Like, they're not going to see each other for a while. Like, she was in a toilet for like three minutes.

That's funny because you would think it's just a cliche to be like, yeah, there's like a sensual sexual energy prevailing everywhere, but it's true. No, I do think, I mean, I will say multiple. people have said that to me, just about it, but a lot of people have said that in the context of Carnival specifically. Even yesterday, a wonderful friend called Chloe who got me a ticket to see Brazil play football yesterday.

Last minute, yeah, it was crazy. And she was telling me the same thing, that carnival is like a different level. I wish everyone snogged each other at Notting Hill Carnival. It's not really like that. I mean, I feel like they might. Yeah. They do, I mean, yeah, that's an interesting one, actually.

I know what you're saying. I mean, firstly, they need to be more space in Nottinger Carnival. I think with more space. Exactly. There's a lot of space in Brazil. It's not just the ends. Yeah, there's not like... I have a feeling that Rio Carnivism

being like shut down by a local council, but... Well, quite. Without that energy, things stay sexy. Okay, well, I... Rio, sorry. Yes, so culture, wicked. The spectrum of expression, unreal. Asailles, obviously my favourite breakfast.

I tell you that Asai bowls in Brazil, they genuinely do taste different. It is like, you know, drinking a Guinness and Ireland or something. Like it's... Oh, Asahi is native to Brazil. Brazil? Yes, from Bahia. Yes, it is. And I tell you, do you know what's wild? Yeah, this is like breaks my heart. Don't start getting all accenting on me. What do you mean?

Listen, I know over five words in Portuguese, but I told you this already. I know how to say I have a dog in a car. That's true. Otenio, oh shit. Okasoro and I caro. Ah, that's it. Yeah, because the story was actually, you don't speak Portuguese and you just about got that sentence. I don't, but I have to just get by, man. I should have to go, Nafala Portuguese. Gay is discolpia. I don't speak Portuguese. I'm sorry. That sounds really good. Wait, what were you just saying? I need to tell you something.

Oh, wait, wait, wait. Can I please say this? Because this is a heartbreaking story. Actually, there's actual real heartbreaking story. This is a joke heartbreaking story. When I was 15 here, my uncle used to live up from Flamenco Beach. So just to give people the understanding in this podcast, I have family here. My mom's half brother moved to Brazil 30 years ago with nothing. He had like 600 real, which is not very much money. And he's set up like a production company and that he's doing a kid.

now when he has kids and my cousin Lua, she lives here. Okay, yeah. This is where I ran away to when I was heartbroken, but that's the next part of the story. But when I was 15, I came down here, I was playing football on the beach, on Flamenco Beach. And my uncle took me and my mum to this restaurant called Boomerang, right, up from Flamco Beach.

And we tried assay. It was not over here yet. It was like 20 years ago, yeah, almost 20 years ago. And my mom was like, wow, this is really tasty. I think we should sell this in the UK. Now, this is where this is where a true evaluation of like whatever people talk about in life.

She could have been an Asahi Millionaire. Nepotism or whatever it is where we didn't have, well, my mum didn't have the infrastructure to implement that idea at that time. She just had, I think she ordered like some frozen Assaii like just to put in our freezer. But if she had honestly, in that moment, done that, this was before it was even, it was ever in London,

ever in L.A. It's everywhere now. Asai is everywhere. This is like pre-matcher. Yeah, yeah, it was like way, and my mum knew. This is the OG of alternative. Yeah, I know, man. I feel sad.

It's so, it's heartbreaking. But we just didn't have any way of doing it. I know, we didn't have no way of doing it. And I can really see her as a sort of a sci-hi. I know. I know. Kind of, you know, the face of it. A sci-a-goddess, yeah, damn right.

A-sai-godess. Exactly that. Sorry, what were we going to ask? I was just going to say, actually, it has felt a bit like Carnival in London. It's been a fucking crazy two weeks. It's been hot, right? It's been hot. Arsenal won the Premiership for God's sake

and then we had the Arsenal game which of course we didn't win but it was still just like heady. What the Champions League? Yeah, Savage. Yeah, I know. It did not work out. It was a bit savage. We've got to mention that Arsenal Women's won the first ever FIFA Women's Champions Cup vibes. Let's go. Oh yeah.

Obviously. I went to meet Grimmy and Meshach and like Tom and Alexa and everyone down at this place and I wasn't going to go and I was just like I was watching the game here and I was like I should really want a weekend to myself. And I was like, fuck it. I'll go, grabbed a top. Jordan got down there.

And everyone was like, Keats, what the fuck? And I was wearing a fucking French Zidant top. And we were playing PSG. What are you doing? I was just like, I'm such a dickhead. And Misha, like, threw an arsenal top of me. He's like, fucking change. I was like, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

That is, the disrespect is correct. I can't believe you've just admitted that. I thought I had to say it. Because if I don't say it... Why did you just admit that? Because I just... That's wild. There are no lies here.

Like, this is the place of honesty. But it was a great game. And then obviously everyone got very depressed as soon as we lost. It was a lot. Yeah. I mean, we weren't expected to win to be fair. But isn't it funny? Even next to a win, that loss was painful for people.

I was like, come on. We've got a parade tomorrow. What I thought was more funny from my perspective was the immediate vitriol, spewing from the Arsenal haters in one of my... football WhatsApp only went to show how difficult the last week has been for people who don't like Arsenal. Yeah, Theo's been in hell. I had to really, really end at one point and go, listen, boys, you just kind of have to understand

that. Losing the Champions League final, like, by a fine margin does not undermine being the champions of England. There's literally only one other team in the world who are better than us. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry to say that to you guys. You're going to have to firm it. And the worst thing is one of the biggest Arsenal haters lives in London.

And I know North London, North London, North London, I know he lives in North London. he's going to have to have soaked that shit. Oh, bro. All you've left. There's two options, bro. You can tweet. You can go on WhatsApp. You can send us many memes of a Miss Penal ESU.

You won't, Rubeboy. You cannot leave your house. God, are people actually doing that? Oh, come on. They loved it. They loved it. That's such shard and, unnecessary shardin Freud. You have no idea.

I was fighting off seven, eight, nine rival fans in the WhatsApp last night. It was crazy. I had to put it down because I wasn't being present. I was in Rio and I was not being present. Yeah, you were like, hang on. Let me leave this like Aggie Arsenal group. I was war. people on WhatsApp. Yeah, yeah, I was really going in.

But then Meish and Grimmy, I mean, it was a hot summer Saturday evening, and Mish and Grimmy were going to Mike Hoopla. And obviously, Lil was playing, and the surprise was that Jade was coming out. Obviously, you and I knew that. And as you know, I think as a lover of words, there is no word I hate more than exclusive. You know this. Really? I think it's... Do you mean in what context? Relationships? I find in every context. No, no. No. No. Not really. in a celebrity exclusive broadcasting way.

Hate to say it. Doesn't mean anything. We got a bunch of exclusives, bro. Well, actually, there I am, hating exclusive. But actually, we do have a shit-hot exclusive. There's no other way to say it. I looked in my dictionary and I couldn't find another word. So this is the bit where we play the clip from Christmas, 24,

when Lily Allen and Jay Thurwall, sorry, 2025, maybe we should do this like a this morning segment. Okay, we have an exclusive bonus content for you where Lily Allen, celebrity legends, Lily Allen and Jay Thurwell let the cat out the bag. Tabloid favorites. Tabloid favorites is good. And told us they were fucking coming together

to make some shit happen. This is what that sounded like. This is what that moment felt like. Speaking of things that we can't talk about, were you allowed to talk about, Jade, doing the remix? No. Can't we talk around it? No.

We can come back and do this again when that happens. Yeah, fine. All right. When's that next summer? Well, I was thinking, Jay, I don't know about you, but what are you doing? I know that you played Mighty Hoopla last year, but were you becoming this year?

I'll be there if you want me to be there, basically. Oh. I think we should drop it the week before Mighty Hoopler and then you should come out and we should do it. That's a good idea. That's a really good idea. Because I wanted to chat to you about anyways.

I feel like I could do a bit more to it to make it just a bit better so it's good that there's time. No, don't save this because I don't want to get involved with it. We can't say that casually on here. It's so good. Have you heard it? It bangs.

The harmonies are a joke. Yeah, just literally played it to me. She sent it to me when I was walking with my dog the other day and I was literally jumping up and down in the park. Like, I'm just so happy you like it. It's amazing. And it's so like heartfelt and beautiful. Yeah.

It's literally my favourite song of all time. Oh my God. Well, we can chat about it the next time. But I was just really happy because I was thinking, what angle can I come out with? And I'm like... It's so clever. I think it's cool to be like I'm your mate and I'm chatting to you.

It's so clever. And we're having the discussion, you know, so... Yeah, yeah, loved it. You're fucking genius. Don't forget you're that bitch with the razor tongue. Yeah. Yeah. Don't forget your love it.

In the rain the tank. Don't forget that bitch. I'm just happy I got book plug in there. That was... I was gagged. Yeah. Is that the new one, that isn't it? Clock it, yeah.

Clock it. Oh, clock it, clock it. We'll keep it for future record. Sorry, what I meant was shit hot exclusive when said moment of Mighty Hoopla last weekend was actually even dreamt up.

I didn't realize we were there when the moment was even made into an idea. It was the inception. We were there. We were present for the inception, the immaculate conception. But what they didn't say

is that they were basically be blocking each other on stage. That was the real exclusive. We didn't know how far they'd take it, but there's no stopping those two when they get together. And obviously Mishak was on Lily's movement, so maybe Mishak is part of that as well.

All the family. Is that his full name? Meshak? Yeah, he's not just called Mishi. Wow, that's cool. I'd want to call it Mesh. Oh yeah, Mish, but yeah, his name is Meshack. So, yeah, it was a beautiful, powerful moment for the women in our lives.

And we're very proud, very proud. And I feel like we're looking at a heady, Lily Allen summer. Fasten your seatbelts. Yeah, I think it's sick, mate. I don't know. What a space to, like, just engage with that energy. I don't know, man. Like, it's a fucking vibe.

Iconic. Yeah, very proud of that. Funic, cultural, I mean, that'll be like hun culture law now. That would be like that's embedded. Cultural law. That's good. Like if a hun culture specifically, yeah, that's going to get a flip back a few times, I think. Hun culture law.

Yeah. L-O-R-E. Yeah. That's right. Okay, beautiful. Step inside the Range Rover sport and experience refinement in every detail. With features like cabin air purification and active noise cancellation, every drive. feels composed and considered.

Explore more at range rover.ca. Okay, we're back. So what were we saying? Now you can tell us why you're in Rio. You're doing the Lord's work, aren't you? I mean, yeah, the Lord's work. We're doing some work. They kept saying world's biggest, like men's care summit.

So it's like a summit. It was people from all around the world coming together to discuss the future of men and boys. I think in a very healthy way, And it was really interesting. I was actually brought as part of Women of the World Foundation. So if you want to add an extra level of head fuck to it. But from my personal journey with it is that I, well, actually, I mentioned this on my story on Instagram.

I didn't realize this would happen. So I kind of went with the emotion in the moment and I posted on my story. What's trippy for me is that the last time I was in Rio, I was here because I was heartbroken. And for those who've read my book, that was, you know, like a profound thing. like something where it kind of caused by my own idiocy. And then I was like confronting this abandonment wound and it was a lot. And I thought it was really cool and unique to run away to South America, but it was actually quite cliche. And I went to say to my uncle. And what was trippy was like probably the saddest moment in the whole trip. So I was here for about two and

half weeks about nine years ago. And the saddest point of the whole trip, I was in a place called Santa Teresa, which is up in the mountains. And bizarrely, the workshops that kicked off, the men's care summit were like 300 meters from the point in the world where I felt the saddest in my life. No, I literally had, it's fucking trippy. No, no, no. I think it's more than tribut. It's actually about, I think one is meant to be observant of said crossroad because I walked, I had an extremely delicious evening last year.

And as I was walking, as I was thinking, God, this is a fucking extraordinary night. in my life, I realized I was walking past the police station that I had had to go into to talk about the neighbour that had become dangerous that was living next to. And I remember standing that police station thinking, it's just the lowest I've ever felt. And it was the highest I'd ever felt. I think they're meant to cross. Well, what wedding is really trippy is like part of me believes that time isn't linear, right?

So like everything's happening at the same time. So there's a version of me that was already at the summit when I was at my saddest. That's, that, that trips me out more because it's like, I felt really sad and I felt sad enough maybe to do something silly back then and I didn't. So it's like almost like, what if a version of me knew anyway. So what's even more trippy is how that happened. So what happened last time I was in Rio was it was the peak of Me Too, right? So there's like a huge online conversation going on around, you know, men and women's, I guess, the interactions. There was a diluted version of obviously the quiet extreme of Me Too, which was, you know, Harvey.

Einstein, etc. And then I think there was like a more, I don't know if I'll tell you is the right word, but there was a more like everyday, you know, like questioning things in the workplace, questioning things in our relationships. And part of that for me was being like, damn, I think I have been, you know, programmed by the society that I live in.

I also feel incapable of handling the immense amount of grief and heartbreak that I'm feeling right now. So I wrote an article about that for The Guardian and that went viral. And as part of that going viral, I was invited to the Women of the World Festival to basically be like a token And like I was there basically being like, I think I'm kind of a prick.

And I was like, whew. No, but this is like when it all began, I do remember this formation. Yeah. So I was there kind of just being like vowing to want to be, I guess, like some kind of a better version of myself. And then it just so happened that I ended up like being at every wow since. So like eight years in a row. And I built up a relationship with Jude Kelly who co-founded it.

I all founded it. I don't know. And then the team Colette, Sabina, Charlie, shout them all out. They're all dope. And we were like, you know, we were like, got to a point after lockdown, especially, or a couple years after lockdown, and we were like, I think we're going to have to create a healthy space

for men and boys to celebrate themselves and to actually platform the men who are doing dope things in society because clearly the internet isn't doing that, right? And so we had these discussions as part of it. And the reality is I've sat on these meetings with the Wow Foundation, right? I'm one of like a handful of men in like an obviously predominantly female-driven organization. And these women are increasingly. incredible, by the way, like from around the entire planet, right? All of them doing the

doper shit. And they had like, this is the thing that I, this is why my current stance is trying to be as openly loving towards women and girls as possible, like expressing that as much as I can because even with all this disdain between genders, these women were still choosing to, that their main concern was helping boys, you know, because their thing was like, there's only so far we can actually go. We've actually gone quite far with feminism. We've actually managed to make quite a few changes. Well, in the world. Western world. And so now, you know, there's a limit because there's, you know, that we still live in a structure that prevents us from going any further unless we get the men

and boys on side, you know, so it's tough. It sounds a little bit like working together to make a better world for us all to live in. That sounds like the right thing to do. It does sound like the right thing to do. And I just, and I think, you know, I want to make sure that that that is also the other way to, you know. I had that kind of revelation during the summit as well where it was like, we have to remember that, even though it's really important to focus on the things that are 100% affecting boys globally, for example, education, schooling, right? But not do that without remembering that we're doing this because we love women and girls in society. We want to push towards that.

We're not like deflecting, you know, and I think it's, I think that's my responsibility as a man to be clear about that as much as I can. No, but this is actually, because you're talking about the formation of this part of your career and life and the work that you're doing in both places on yourself and in your work. I forgot about that it being the beginning Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah It was crazy It got shared like 40,000 times or something

Yeah And then you did You were sort of Moved you into this new role And I suppose To be back there Physically looking at a place Where you were at your lowest

Is also, you know It makes you have to look at how far you've come And I suppose, Jordan The student has become somewhat the master I don't know Listen, I rebuke this Because

There are young I struggle with this bit. I get my friends, my friends tell me I need to, I don't like, this is my current stance. I just don't like that level of it. Like I'm very happy to be part of it. I'm very happy to provide like an alternative perspective. I get things wrong all the time though. I really reserve the right to be a deeply flawed, confused and occasionally problematic human.

Like that's what I want for women too. I don't want, I want every human being to have the freedom to be like fluid. and changeable. Like, I think, you know, I get why sometimes people will go, you know, have these comments about like liking my stance on certain things. But there will be stances that people don't like about me, you know. I actually got in, I've actually been having a bit of pushback recently, like in the last four days because I was on a podcast with a person who they have independently said

something else that loads of people don't like. And they're coming at me as if I'm endorsing this view that I haven't said or they've never said in front of me. It's just he runs an Instagram account. But I wanted to be part of the conversation with him because even though I don't agree a lot with what this account says, I thought it was important for me to have my presence so that people on that account might see my views,

which are certainly pro-women, right? Like certainly. But people look at me going, they think my followers are going to look at that account. It's just very confusing. I just want to have conversation with everyone, even if I don't agree with them. Yeah, but also it's about this openness

and this idea that conversation and storytelling and vulnerability just does get everyone to a maybe not even better place but a more united place. Yeah, storytelling, definitely. That was actually my specific group in the summit, the power of storytelling. I mean, that is why podcasts are so big. I'm still baffled by it. I'm still baffled at the speed in which the podcast has become the greatest, most successful medium. Even though we do this every week.

It's ancient. It's ancient. People want to hear stories. They want to feel connected like it's an ancient force. And like that's, look, there were many different aspects to this summit. And, you know, like men and women were part of it. But I just think like, oh man, like, do you know what? Let me give one example.

Let me just give some more hopefulness. I know a lot of women listen to Miss Me. And I know that, you know, we get peppered with the worst elements, you know, of society all the time. And there have been some really tough stories recently. I mean, we haven't spoken about the boys actually. But maybe that's for another week. but um sorry i dhd let me just calm down a second let me tell a positive story tell a story of hope so well it's not it's actually really fucking heartbreaking but it's an important story about like the

men that exist in a in a positive space right and one of them is this guy and he shared with us on the introductory night that he met the love of his life right this woman she's like that's vague enough no sorry it's just i was going to choke me up if i say it so i didn't just like get him on. Anyway. Sorry. It's just sad.

It's a really sad story, but I want to tell it. So this guy met the love of his life. And she, he just spoke so beautifully about her and how she like in, like she,

he had all the qualities he thought he had maximized. She came into his life and like, amped them beyond belief, right? He was obsessed. And they like traveled the world with each other. He really believed, that she brought out the best in him.

And she, so they had a kid, and then when they went to have another kid, basically, she was in the hospital, she was a black woman, is in the hospital, and she had complications in the birth, and she lost a lot of blood, basically.

And she passed away. But he has now... Children. It's just... Anyway, he's now like dedicated his life to making sure that women are more protected with maternal care you know because the day especially black women because the data worldwide is wild and it's something that's like repeated there's real but he was the US and obviously there's UK but like I just can't emphasize enough it's impossible I think as a human to see that guy speak and to see how he carries himself and his children and like that those are the type of people who deserve everything do you know what I'm saying like he deserves like all the space in the world. We have to get our shit together.

I know, I know. But this is kind of, but this is what I'm trying. This is why these things are powerful, you know, because like, I don't know this guy. You know, I mean, you're, we're getting emotional because we understand, like, innately, like how fucking heartbreaking that is. And I had, how can I not lean into that?

Do you know what I'm saying? But also what he's done with it. Yeah. Like, what he's done with his pain. Let's pick it up. Genuinely it took me by surprise. There was many panels that day, you know, and it was like this guy and he sat there

and he was part of the kind of men's care within the health sector. But babe, this is why these things are beautiful. You know what? Maybe that's why calling you a master isn't quite correct. What I mean is you have evolved in this space, right? And you have grown in it, but there's still fucking loads for you to learn.

And I think that's a really natural, human place to be in anything. And I think that's how we should all look at, life, like, you know, you've learnt stuff, but there is so much to always learn. Always. Stay curious. Yes. And I think it is innately difficult as a human to move towards, like, we talk about being good or like a good person.

We talk about good men or like good, I mean, just honest, here's a good example. He's talking about good men and we understand it. The second you say good woman, I think it sounds problematic, you know? Like, when you talk about being a good woman, like, what does that mean? Like, who's defining that, right? So, like, that aspect is tough. It sort of immediately goes into sort of under thumb. Under thumb, right, exactly.

But what's funny is the joke I made, obviously, before we start recording, but I'll say it now for the listeners, is just to explore, like, how overwhelming that can be. One of the funniest moments once the summit had finished was that me being a group of, you know, there's a small group of men and there's a group of women. Like, we all really wanted to just have, like, three hours of just, like, mildly inappropriate jokes immediately.

Oh, yeah. Once it finished, we're like, there should be a bit problematic. It would be a big problematic just to level it out. Everyone's been too clean and too good for too long. Do you think that's actually a natural reaction to have it? You do feel a bit... Listen, it was a lot, right? There was a lot of talking, a lot of emotion, obviously, just then.

We had to carry that, and you have to cleanse, you have to let go and you've got to do it in a safe. You know, this is what WhatsApp groups are for. This is what, listen, I'm not stupid. I know what women are saying when they meet up and are ones. I know there's some crazy shit, right? And guys, right? But one of the women even was like,

if I hear the word masculinity in the next four in the next week If I hear one more thing about the fear of the modern man's plight I will The dream goal is actually to discuss this as humans That is actually the dream

That was what was said by Jude Kelly Like the dream would be That we have this summit And it's actually what nothing to do with men or women It's just like And it's genderless It's just life It's just called sharing the planet together

It's called like making life better For all of us Yeah, that's a summit I'd go to. As a summit I would attend. What Nat said in our editorial call last week, our producer, I really liked it. She said, well, I suppose what this is is something that's about actionable change. And I really liked that. I also really like the, I've realized today, I really like the word actionable, able to action.

Yeah, motherfucker. What a word. Yes. No, that's a great word to highlight because I think people have got tired, especially in like mental health conversations, for example, where people are like, we need to talk more. And it's like, do we? It's like when you're in a relationship

and it's like we should probably just have another conversation. You're like, I just, I don't think we should keep doing that. And it feels like there are things being put into the world in a very real, productive, helpful, useful way. And I wanted to say there's this series about Gara Salki at the moment. You know, the play. Yes, dear England. Yeah.

And they've made a series for it. and, uh, sorry, my cousin's next door and he really hated it, but I really liked it and he's like, the series. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's fine. It's so, I loved it. In the montage of all the boys like starting to unify and come together and da, la, la, they fucking play risal kicks.

What? They play skip to the beat. Skips to the good bit. But is it actually, is it actually us or is it the original sample for me, yeah, it's you? Because I was like, that's Jordan's one. And then I was like, oh, he's, he's so all over the new male men's health fucking breakthroughs. He's not even trying and they're throwing him over it in the Dear England show. It was very exciting.

I love that. I know. I was like, come on. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. But what's interesting about it is it's Rupert Gould, right? And he is obviously, you know, attempting to bring that kind of element of the stage play to screen.

So it's kind of oddly made But I kind of get what he's trying to do And I did enjoy it Joseph finds as Gareth Southgate On point Oh my God Because you know Gaileth Southgate Only talks out of the sort of the side of his mouth

Oh yes Joseph finds The Handmaid's tale Is he in that? Yes He's the fucking He's like the main antagonist Oh good Because I was worried Joseph finds

Hadn't been working Are you kidding me he's like Hamas tells one of the biggest series of the last 10 years yeah she didn't know he's in it I've only watched the tape in it he literally plays

he literally plays the man who owns the main character got it he was in prisoner 951 nat's just told us sorry Joseph finds

he's doing fine he's doing fine he's doing Joseph finds he's doing Joseph fines it's a good casting as Garas Alba actually I thought so too suddenly said it was shit

I was like no That's very good casting. I can't believe you didn't know who's in the handma's tail, sorry. That's actually so crazy. I haven't really watched it. The first three seasons were unreal. And then apparently the ending was also phenomenal. But I got put off because they did.

And I think Margaret Outwood would have probably consigned, would co-signed this or even encouraged it. But the main character became so unbelievably unlikable that I actually stopped watching. Elizabeth Moss. Her character in that show becomes, she pissed me off so much at the end of one season that I was like, I'm actually not watching this anymore. Oh, I actually don't mind.

The collateral damage from this woman's mission was out of this fucking world, bro. Honestly, for those watching, I don't know if people will think it too. They'll know exactly what season I mean. There's an opportunity where she can literally... Oh, anyway, I don't even want to get into it, but she pissed me off. But apparently she redeems herself.

And the whole point, you know, it's a writing technique. The whole point is they take her back down to the bottom so she builds herself back up and then by the end, she's obviously a hero. but my God, my God, did they do a good job? It got too bleak. So it's somewhat too much of a sort of prophetic TV show now. So it's a place where Gilead, right?

Which is like a self-con... No, no, no, no. I've seen the first series. Oh, okay, right. So it's next to Canada. But I only watched it when I was doing Gogglebox, so I only saw clips of it. Okay, so you haven't seen it.

Fuck, sake, why do you say that? Sorry. I forgot that Garret Southgate was England manager in 2016. That's when he started. ages ago pre pre-COVID right and they're so what's the word like they don't have any faith in him he's not even appointed as the England manager he's the caretaker manager like to see how it goes

no one's got any faith in him and yeah well there was no reason to have faith in him really why because he missed one penalty is that why no because I'm pretty sure his previous job was managing like Middlesbrough or something it was it was and they got relegated so fair point But everyone's... He wasn't exactly a standout. He wasn't exactly a standout for England, no. And I think that's why he was so good,

because he, no matter what, is a very kind man and has had to face a lot of fear, of his own fears. You have to respect his approach to... Well, also, he's actually been very outspoken about the future of men and young men. And I thought, I'm really... I think that's really dope. I like that about him.

Yeah, I really like that South... He was at that Obama lunch that me and mum went to. And he was so nervous for his question. for Obama. We all were. Really? But he was like, Mr. Obama,

he's like, I've just got it written down. I was like, God, Gareth Southgate freaked down. I was like, yeah, I guess he is quite like a nerve yeah, rattled by Obama's sheer presence. And I can't imagine what holding the entire country's hopes and dreams

on your shoulders would actually physically properly feel like. And to feel like you've let everyone down. And there's this beautiful scene, Jordan, where he asks everyone all the football, all the players. And, you know, and also it's a vibe. montage when he's like recruiting all his new crew.

I love that he goes, fuck it, let's get Rahim Sterling, let's get Marcus Rashford, let's get Jordan Henderson, let's have the youngest England team we've had in 20 years. And he was right. Like they needed that hunger. And he says to them, I want you to talk about maybe your doubts and fears in this place. They're like, coach, I ain't got no doubts. Like I'm a winner.

I'm here to win. And he's like, well, we're not fucking winning. So like, then he still really started discourse. No, but then he said. to Pippa, this chick. Like, what an unsung hero. I think she's like a fear management woman who's a real character who helps him.

He hires her for the team. She says, you're going to have to talk about what you're scared about. You're going to have to talk about your fears if you want them to. Yeah, you've got to lead by example. Exactly. And then he tells, you know,

play for play what it felt like to take that penalty and to miss it and what it did for his life afterwards and the shame he felt and how he had to carry it. And I was just like, Now we're talking.

Now we're talking. That's how you get people to open up. You open up first. What are you scared of? And he still let Baccarusaka. Do what? Turn up for the fifth penalty. Yeah.

And he missed. I know. But what did Garif do when Saka missed? He held him. He held him tight. Yeah, he fucking better have held him. At least he could have done, but we should have protected him.

You don't think Saka should have taken that penalty? No. Listen, Jade, as my witness, when I turned up to the... I was there, by the way. I was there in a stadium, right? Jade as my witness, I turned up to the match and said, I don't mind any outcome in this game.

The only thing I don't want to see is because Saka's take a penalty. I literally said that. I literally said it. Why do you not have faith in Saka and penalties? Firstly, he was like 19 or 20 or something like that. He was like ridiculously young. And he wasn't our penalty taker.

Yeah, it's not his forte. But, but, but what it did do, and I'll give, maybe Gareth saw the future, is it enabled Saka to live what I thought. This is like, Saka's like 10 years younger than me, yeah. It's one of the greatest moments in my life was after. Obviously he misses the penalties. England does its thing.

Mad racism. Blames it all on a black players, whatever the fuck. Like, just like boring. Same love. But like, but, but easily could easily break a person, right? The next season, after this, we play Liverpool, Arsenal play Liverpool. And we get a penalty, right?

and Saka picks the ball up and I sweat, Makeda, I'm literally there like, because this is my shit. This is your shit too. This is the bag we want to be in. Am I going to let fear define my life? Absolutely not, boss.

Exactly. Gets the ball. And by the way, this is when Liverpool are the best team in the league, right? Put sit down. I was in a collective consciousness at that point.

We're all going. If he misses this penalty, I can't do this again. But you know what? He stood up to take that penalty going, even if I miss, I'm taking it. Yeah.

Do you know what I'm saying? And he put that ball down against Liverpool and he pinged it in and he's taken like 70% of our penalties ever since. And that was like, that's fucking sick. And that is how you grow a man. Yes, that is literally, that is one of the best single examples of how to transmute the pressure of being a human being I've ever seen in my life.

And that's why he's a hero to me. I don't care what he does past this point. He's a hero to me. Same of Sterling, by the way. Absolutely like, feel the fear and do it anyway. Feel the fear and do it anyway, bro. And also he's very interesting, he looks at the ops. He looks at the optics.

And he says, on average, our penalties are taken in three seconds. Some of the most successful penalty takers take take eight seconds. Why are we fucking rushing? Yeah, yeah, you've got to breathe. Fear. Fear is why they're rushing. So he's like, get into your patience. That whistle is not for you.

It's for them. Take your time. It was good telling. A bit triggering, obviously, because of the Champions League final. but yeah. Yeah, I mean, I know, I know. But yeah, it is.

I mean, I can't, dude, I didn't even like taking penalties on like a Friday kickabout, but I can't even like, that is, that is nuts. I like when they call it sudden death. It's like, wow, let's not fucking around. It really is, isn't it?

Oh, yeah, when it gets to the point where the next one scores, yeah, it's pretty nuts. Can I just say, for anyone that listens to miss me every week, I know we've talked about football a lot. Me and Zowie went in. Really? I've not spoken about it at all. But it's just such a footbally time in this country.

And World Cup starting in what, like a week or something? Yeah, because I'm going to the World Cup screening thing. You should come. Do you want to come? I know you're still away. I'm also, I have turned down a couple of World Cup jobs. That's what I'm going to say.

What do you mean jobs? You mean like broadcaster jobs? I think I will be, I'll have to watch the World Cup. I'll just have to watch the World Cup, right? But this World Cup has pushed the limit of what I think is acceptable on the relationship between football and politics. When I seen the head of FIFA handing Donald Trump the FIFA Peace Prize, Peace. Peace Prize.

By the way, no leader of any country has ever, ever been awarded anything before the World Cup. They barely even turn up. It's not about you. But apparently now this is. And all Trump could talk about was how many tickets he sold. What reality am I living in? Yeah, this is just the beginning, everyone, of a pretty serious World Cup. It pushes me because to the same extent, just of a balance. I understand that our team wouldn't be able

to boycott the World Cup because football is one of the only spaces where someone can have social mobility. You can be born into a working class family with nothing, be an absolute baller and alleviate your family.

But you've only got a 10 year career. So am I really asking all these boys who have like got 10 years and potentially two World Cup's max to go to in a whole career? No, I can't expect that from them. So it's very conflicting but I haven't done anything around it.

Sorry, there are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8 birds flying in the most beautiful, beautiful unison line across the London skyline. Sorry. Okay, let's just shut up now. I will see you for boundaries. For boundaries. Love them. Love boundaries.

We all love them. We all try our best to implement them. And this is the year. Apparently Firehorse is very much about boundaries. So let's talk about them. Tell us about all the times your boundaries have been totally. totally pushed. And we'll tell you about us.

All right, Danny, I love you. I'll see you for boundaries. See for listen, bitch. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persefonica production for BBC Sounds. If you've been affected by anything raised in this episode,

go to BBC.com.uk. Forward slash Actionline. Hi there. I'm Dilly Carter. And this is everything you need to know about my new podcast. Sort your life out. Unpacked.

I interview a different celebrity every episode. They bring me in three items from their home that reveal the most about them and we unpack the stories behind those items. And I give you a few tips and tricks along the way. Some of the guests that I'm going to be interviewing are TV presenters like Lorraine Kelly, reality stars like Kerry Katona, podcast royalty like Elizabeth Day and of course our very own Stacey Solomon. Oh and let's not forget some incredibly funny comedians like Phil Wang and Eddie Caddy. I think as with everything to sort your life, out-based, you are going to get so much motivation, inspiration and ideas for your own home.

Sort your life out unpacked presented by me, Diddy Carter. You can watch us on IPlayer and listen on BBC Sounds. Step inside the Range Rover sport and experience refinement in every detail. With features like cabin air purification and active noise cancellation, every drive feels composed and considered. Explore more at atrangerover.ca.