Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! Confidentially Incompetent

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens answer your questions about confidence.New link to send us your Listen Bitch voicenote questions! https://wa.me/447849030711 Weekly topic reveals now @missme.4eva on instagramProducer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Video Editor: Jack BoswellProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Ellie Clifford & Dino SofosMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

One of my favorite quotes of all time is by Dr. Zeus. And he says, he says, be who you are and say what you feel. Because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. And that has saved me on a few occasions. It's actually quite overwhelming to realize that it's just this. This face, this heart, this body, this mind. Fore-Eves. Yeah.

So you best fall in love with yourself. Specifically rap music, Will Smith is not the best rapper. No, he's a fucking awful rapper, but he's confident in who he is as Will Smith. Will Smith's actually delusional, so I don't know if that's the best. Welcome to Listen Bitch in its new formation. It's called the same thing. We're doing the same thing. Actually, something has changed.

We are no longer on the BBC. We're in the new modern world. We're freedom fighters where you will hear adverts. I'm sorry about that. But that is the new modern world, I'm told. And we've decided to live in it with everyone else. with all the other big wigs. First question, please.

For this week's listen, bitch, the theme is Confidence. Do you see my Justin Bieber story? Wait, before we do the first question, I wanted to shout out to Confidence Man. They did a song with Jay that she called Gossip, which is a banger. So Confidence Man are basically a group, right,

fronted by a woman. And the top lines, so basically it's a woman and her brother. He makes the beats. She does the vocals on the top line. But what's so mad is, she has another guy on stage who kind of does nothing. He just dances with her and she kisses him sometimes. And he says like the odd word.

But he literally... Yeah, like Bez. But he literally is her confidence man. That's the reason why... What, she auditioned... He's her man to make her feel confident. Yeah, like she literally like must have auditioned men to just be on stage with her.

Like, everyone thinks they're together or like whatever, but they're not this. He's just the Aussie guy who just is on stage. He's just... Australian guy. He's so saying. They're both so safe, but it's just like really funny because I thought he was way more to do with the group

but he actually is just on stage. I don't even know if it gets paid. I mean, I'm assuming he gets paid. Well, I think we shouldn't look for our confidence in others. Right, okay. And that's probably what we're going to learn today. I think she's definitely confident without him, but it does create for a great stage show.

Listen, at this point, wherever we can find our confidence, we should take it. Yeah. But it probably should come from within. But let's explore that together. Let's have our first question for today's listen, bitch. The theme is a confidence. Hello, my name's Hannah.

I live in Somerset, but I'm half Maltese and half English. My question is, at what point does something that you do that requires confidence stop becoming confidence and just become part of your personality or who you are? Like when I look back to parts of my life where I was not confident to do something and then I pushed myself to it and I did it again. again and again and again. And now I don't really think about it. Sometimes I might be nervous about something. But it's not something that takes confidence for me anymore. It just is something I do naturally. So yeah, when does confidence stop being confidence and just become part of like who you are? Love that. That's a great question. Tress for the job you want. A fake it till you make it. This is what she's talking about, right? Sorry, I didn't know whether you're just going to keep saying phrases

I don't understand what was happening. They're the only two I are. Okay. Is she talking about a fake... Yeah, I guess she is to a degree. I was just thinking of just like repetition. Yes, but what I'm saying is repetition of sometimes maybe a confidence that you have to force. Or even, sometimes, imagine.

Like a mirage that you can't quite get close to, but you know there's water there. If you keep pretending there's water there. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. God, this is a deep one actually because there's like a study that kind of suggests that you can have confidence but be incompetent, right? So the confidence would come from an incompetence. And then the more competent you become, you then actually go through a real dip, which they call the Valley of Despair, where like you are then competent enough to realize that you shouldn't have been confident in the first place. And then from there, it's like a gradual, it's like a massive dip and then a gradual ascent towards what we'd call probably like competent, guru, expert.

Okay. Right, let me line this. I'm sorry, what's the next bit? No, I'm just saying. So that would be, I guess, more towards what she's saying, where it's like that's an authentic confidence that comes from expertise because you've spent so much time

building a genuine competence. Okay, can I align this with like maybe something going in my life. Yeah, please. Okay, so one would be like business, right? Yeah. The language in business was so confusing to me. I said, as someone who loves words, that I cried quite a lot. I was actually crying over language, crying that I wasn't confident in something I always thought I was confident in words. Not because I have an incredible vocabulary, it's because I love words. And I'm curious about more of them, as many as I can know about. But because I've had to stay, in said situation because you're building something,

you're making a company happen. I've had to learn, I've just had to learn how to stay in the uncomfortableness of it. I hate being a novice at things. I'd like to get very good at them very quickly. But this takes time. It's taken about a year and a half. But now I'm in meetings,

four ropes, and people will say the myriad of acronyms that live in business, you know, I can't even think of one now, but I do know them. If someone said on, I know it. I know it. You know.

Okay, like EBITDA. Ebit dar for fuck sake. When I first learned about EBITDA, I was like, what the fuck? How am I ever going to understand this? And this is basically like what your company makes after tax, costs, blah, blah, blah, right? But it's like estimate times a blah, blah, blah, la. It's, you know, it's an acronym. That's what they do in business.

a lot. See, Jordan, you wouldn't be able to do this. You wouldn't be able to just go, fuck it, you've lost me. I have to stay in there. And that's really interesting, because that's exactly what I've wanted to do for the last year. Like, fuck it, it's just ain't my game. And it's like, well, do you want it to be your game or not, McKee? Yes, I do. And now I'm in meetings and people say shit, and I understand what they're saying. So I'm not necessarily, like, confident. I just, I'm not thinking about it anymore because the confidence has become just like, my ease in the situation. Yeah.

So with this trajectory that you're talking about, the lovely lady who told us she was half Maltese, you were talking about in relation to what she said, this kind of journey that one can take with confidence. Do you think that's what I've done in business? I'm not a guru yet. Yes, yes, yes. So for example, like,

because I wasn't competent. Yes. it's difficult in that situation because you are like, it feels like you've immediately engaged with enough competence to know that you're incompetent at business. That's that so that you'll be more in the despair phase and you're then gaining competence the more business you do. Whereas the beginning bit would be somebody striking gold in business

because they've actually done it quite recklessly, which you hear a lot. So for example, like, I can think of loads of examples actually of people who just do things because they don't know how something works and then they end up kind of revolutionising it in a way. Like the producer Benny Blanco, he speaks about only making beats at a certain tempo because he didn't realise you could change the tempo in logic. So he just made a bunch of beats and then two of them end up being like global smashes or whatever. Or like a lot of politicians you could argue are or like people on the internet, they're confident enough to press record and think that world wants to hear them. But they don't actually necessarily know that much.

but because they've been confident enough to do it they're in everyone's face whereas people who have learned enough about the actual thing are often know that they don't know enough about it to talk about it so they end up so that's why we've had this kind of like like lack of expertise in certain areas because the actual experts are aware of the fact that they might not be they don't want to be necessarily like telling people one of my pet hates on the internet, I'll just say, are like people who are not in relationships giving relationship advice that really bugs me. Like, it really bugs me. Just because, like, maybe if you've just come out of a long relationship, like, I would understand. No, because there's just so many of the terms.

But there's so many people who are just like, alone and they're just, which is fine, by the way. Like, I've actually have, I really, really don't think anybody has to be in relationship at all. I don't think it defines anybody. But when I see people who aren't in relationships and have seemingly never had one work and they're going, this is the reason why you don't want to be in a relationship. I'm like, well, you don't fucking know because you don't even know what's required. And then ironically, one of the most successful relationship experts, I rich literally read a whole substack taking her down. And I was like, she literally has been in a marriage for like 20 years and you'll sit there's that going, yeah, but she doesn't get it. I was like, no, she gets what she's talking about.

No, no, actually she really gets it. If you want to be in a relationship, listen to somebody who has managed to hold down one. Anyway, sorry, that's a side note. That was just a little side note. Let's move on. Question two. Sorry, can I just say, and another thing, this is really an important one, is as a good parallel is when I first adopted Spike, yeah, my first rescue, I didn't listen or watch anything about dog training.

And I made loads of mistakes because I was confident but incompetent, right? But what's so fucked up about it is Spike is now one of the most unusual, calm and like well-trained dogs because me and him went through like basically like like five near death experiences and now like if I walk I can walk him off the lead

he just walks next to me and like he but because I didn't listen to any of the guidance whereas with the other dog with the new with Mimi you know we're a bit more responsible and actually Mimi's kind of harder to she's probably better to listen to but I can never have off the lead so anyway just it's just right so she's probably more nervous

maybe I don't know I'm just saying like it's I was I definitely hadn't realised how I hadn't listened basically to what you should do and it worked out in a weird way. For that mask mirror parenting, I know neither of us are parents, but my friends who are parents talk about it a lot and a lot of them say like,

it's an energy thing. Oh shit. I think my kettle's here. Your kettle's here. Honestly, I spent top money on this kettle man. I found this like kettle designed by Aborigines. Don't worry. Oh my God, there's this thing that I want,

speaking of kettles. There's this thing I want called the velvitizer. You know, I've made hot chocolate in my coffee machine. It doesn't like it. I've made hot chocolate in a pan. It's fine. But I need a hot chocolate machine. And then I went to Waterloo Station to pick up Lily's kid.

And at the hotel Chocolar area, they were like, the velveter has arrived. You know, I was like, the fuck is this? And they're so clever, right? Because that word, velvet. Yeah. That word, velvet. You just know what it tastes like. I want velvety milk.

I want velvet. I want velvet. Hot chocolate, mate, like I'm in panis. That's right. I was like, it sounds classy, sophisticated and delicious. So that's on my list, the velvitiser. But good luck with your kettle. And let's have our second question.

Hi, Makita, morning and hi Jordan. It's Rebecca from Brighton. A book I always read by Maisie Hill called Period Power. And for women, she describes the confidence time of your period as your Beyonce time when you're ovulating and a woman is feeling confident, beautiful, she's feeling sassy, she's in her Beyonce season. I just find it really interesting how women go through this on a monthly basis.

So some women can have like a couple of days of Beyonce confidence and then the rest of the month is really difficult. And I just wondered what Jordan's thoughts on, this are as a male and how does it differ for males when do they feel most confident in like a 24 hour cycle or maybe in a monthly cycle yeah i just love i love it and i hope you both well and thank you and congratulations on your new venture lots of love from britain oh thanks that's our first congratulate on air congratulations that is it's a big moment um what the what's my view on it Can I just say as a woman?

Sorry, what, what, what, when? When does this happen? Because I have not experienced this in my ovulation cycle at all. Right. I would say I would go more like depressed, lose all confidence and feel alone and I'm nurtured. So I'd love to know exactly when in the cycle this moment is. Because people are like, oh, are you ovulating?

You must feel fantastic. I'm like, I'm in so much pain I can't stand up. What are you talking about? Yeah, I mean, you do have quite, you do, from what I've seen, you have pretty intense periods, which, you know, it does that as a, pause that as a thing. I have intense periods of periods. Yeah, yeah, that's tough.

What is my thing in men confidence? Yeah, it's interesting, she alluded to the idea that men go through these daily cycles, which I had seen on something. I saw somebody saying that, like, we, like a hormonal cycle of a man, is like every day, 24 hour. I think that's what she was alluding to. So it's like... Wait a minute.

So you... Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah, no, genuinely. We have hormones. So yours is daily? No, no. It's not to the same extent as obviously a periodic cycle

and certainly not to the same extremity, but obviously we have hormones. Yes. Unlike women's monthly menstrual cycles, the male hormonal cycle primarily operates on a 24-hour circadian rhythm, driven primarily by testosterone. The cycle is characterized by daily fluctuations

and also influenced by longer term seasonal changes and age-related declines. Morning peak, testosterone levels rise overnight hitting the highest point between 7am and 10am. This is when men typically feel the most focused, energetic and alert. Afternoon and evening decline, levels gradually diminish as the day progresses. Testosterone hits its lowest point in the evening, usually between 7pm and 9pm, which often coincides with feeling more subdued or fatigued. I don't know why this is pissing me off, but it just is. What's pissing you off, that we have hormonal cycles?

Just that it's daily. I don't understand. Why is that pissing off? I don't know. I just, because I feel like it's an excuse mechanism for writing like a dicket. What? I don't understand.

Sorry. No, I'm sure it's not. I don't know why that's coming up. It just is. But how, in what context of it, as a squirt with being a dickhead?

I've, I've had experiences with a lot of men who are really grumpy in the morning. No, in the morning you're supposed to not be. I know exactly against your circadian rhythm it would turn out but I'm always told by men like that's just me like I'm a man I'm grumpy in the morning and I find it I love mornings I love mornings I love mornings that's like I'm a morning person man it's not every man yeah but some people but that's not just men that's women like some I like some people just are better at night some people just like come alive at night literally I've I've I know that for sure and I'm not I prefer to wake up early but um I don't know. Obviously, it's not as, it's not, it's actually news to me that, just reading that. And also it's saying that it also extends out to seasons, which is blowing my mind a bit. It's kind of, if anything, this is like, for me, just realizing, like, how little we, uh, seem to be engaged as well as men, like, as a kind of collective male vibe of like, even understanding how this plays in. We talk a lot about testosterone and like what that can do and what that can't do. But it's saying here that that's ultimately, it's the spiking and lowering of that testosterone that contributes to our mood. That's, fascinating to me. I think that would be really good if you're a young man learning about himself to even know

that is a part of, yeah, it's wild. But do I feel most confident. Stay curious. I do think, I don't, I don't know if it's the hormones or if it's like my own outlook on life or time

in life, but like I, firstly, I love the sun. I feel, a sunny morning like today, like I feel more capable of doing things that, that bring me joy.

Do I lack confidence at night? maybe, I don't know, it's so dependent. I just, it's nothing, I don't think I've experienced anything, which is as obvious, obvious as the days of difference or the complete, I've experienced it with women where the entire mood, their entire, not just the mood, but like the approach to like a situation that's existed, but then within these three days, suddenly it's the worst situation ever. And then like that's, I've been able to know actually when someone is premenstrual

because of what they choose to fight with me about. Well, that happens in a long-time relationship, doesn't it? Oh, oh. No, no, but it's funny because obviously that's the work. That's like, there's a societal idea that's really rude, isn't it? I've man to be like, oh, you're on you reds or whatever. But in all seriousness, that aside, no, but that aside.

But like that. Yeah, of course. When it's diminishing or reductive, then yes. But there is also just a reality that I've been in spaces where like something becomes a problem and I can literally go, I know, I know that something. I know something's just. That wasn't an issue. Last week, that wasn't an issue.

Now it's an issue. Do you know what? My best friend, Tull Phoebe, who is in a relationship with a woman called Tiki, and in a same-sex relationship, when it comes to that, it's quite heady. They synchronise, no? Yeah, well, they fucking synchronising. Yeah, synchronising is crazy with the pheromones. But isn't that mad?

But isn't that mad? But isn't that, like, the pheromones from the female body emit and then collaborate? No, it's weird. It's fucking wild. Like me and all my team are synchronized. Yes, that's so sick. We see each other three times a week. Does that make us synchronize?

Yeah, that's enough. That's so wild. Just to be near each other, three times a week. It's really interesting to, can I just say as a note with a hormones thing, especially with men. This is why I think it's so important to speak to trans men. Because, like, they've had the experience of such a significant level of testosterone that they have incredible insight on what.

I mean, it's not equivalent to, I guess, like the steadying of having testosterone throughout puberty, for example, but having it like suddenly, what depends where you transition, to be honest, but having that sudden dosage of it is, I've heard some really, really interesting stories.

And then obviously vice versa with trans women. Hi, Jordan and everyone else. This is Gilbert from Uganda, East Africa. And my question is, how do I get a confidence around new people? For example, you go out with friends and you have to meet a lot of different people and you don't know how to bring a conversation and you all seem boring and especially when I'm looking for opportunities.

Like, tell me how my chest is paining because I have to say something in public. Oh, yeah. Like, I don't understand. I think I need some help. Of course. Why am I crying? Why is that hit you? Because I just like lack of confidence when you're trying to be social. Yeah.

We assume it's something people just have. Sorry, I'm just a bit of a mess at the moment. But he just sounded so like vulnerable. Yeah, yeah. I really want to help him because I totally get it. I realised recently I'm actually not that confidence socially. which is quite a strange thing for me to understand. I think in new environments maybe

I think you're confident with your family and friends. No, I'm actually confident in new environments. It's more like... That's interesting. Is that something you felt more recently? Yeah, but then it reminded me of like when it started, it was when I was young and I think because I got my job early,

I just got really self-conscious. And Phoebe, cousin Phoebe, was just so social. and I would really hide behind her at parties and stuff and I didn't know how she knew how to talk to everyone because I'd been like away working. Yeah. And I'd sort of forgotten how to like make friends or be with people. And I think it still comes up.

I think I am really self-conscious. But I just wanted not talk about me and I want to help this man. And when you said public speaking, it immediately made me think of Made in Manhattan. Fuck, said. And thank you, sir, for getting in touch from Uganda. because then you make me realize that we're not just sitting in a room talking to ourselves. There is a man in Uganda that needs our help and, but golly will give it to him.

In Made in Manhattan, which is a film with Ray Fines and Jennifer Lopez, sir, he is a public speaker and Jennifer Lopez's son is having to do speeches at school and he's really nervous and he teaches him to hold a paperclip and it's so that all the nervous energy can be conducted into that place. So when he's there, because he's a congressman in the film, it's a fucking great film made of Manhattan. When he's there doing speeches and stuff, at the end of a scene, they always show you that he's got the paper clip. And I thought, isn't that interesting?

And I do it with certain things that I take out with me in the day, like certain crystals that I've got from beautiful family members that I know love me and want to protect me. To take something with you that you can channel all the other energy into leaves you empty with space for kind of calm, and peace. So if there's a way to kind of channel all those nerves into just something that you can hold while you're out with people, I promise you space will be felt. And you can kind of, when you want to be socially confident, what you need is to feel calm. And this is a really

beautiful way of doing that. But I just, it's not from me. I can't take the credit. That's, that's, that's Ray Fines. The most nervous I've ever been, because considering I'm confident with public speaking, that's one of my gifts that I don't. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I remember before Glastonbury, I mean, that's performance, but I was, and I've never, ever, ever in my life felt as nervous as I did before Glastonbury about anything in my life ever. Wow. Like, I was honestly, I almost was sick. I almost threw up. Like, I was so not.

And I think it's because I had made Glastonbury as a concept into this big monster and, like, you know, this. And I was, I had externalized. Dragon to slay. Yeah, I had externalised the validation. Because that ultimately is what it is. When we are nervous going into either social situations or public speaking, it's because for whatever reason, well, this is what I believe, a part of me would have been, like a part of my power I have given to either the people in the room

or the people on the seats, I've decided that their opinion of my performance or their opinion of me or what I say and do is, how I define what I say and do. That's ultimately where the anxiety becomes a fear of rejection. Yes, totally. Totally. Because if I was, when I go into spaces where I don't, I'm not seeking validation from the people I'm around and my nervous system is calm because of that.

I know it's because for whatever reason I'm not insecure in that space. You know, like if I, I'm trying to think of examples, you know, I would be different. It'd be different going into to talk with a small group of young men. I'd feel different if I was done. delivering a talk about my book to a group of, of like, award-winning authors, you know, because I have decided,

of course. Whatever, that's something I'm not particularly. So I think perhaps there's a freedom in understanding that, firstly, everyone's thinking about themselves, to be honest. Most people's opinion of you is,

will be an extension of their opinion of themselves. It will be a projection out into the world, right? So, like, one of favorite quote of, one of my favorite quotes of all time is by Dr. Zeus. And he says, he says, be who you are and say what you feel

because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. Exactly. And that has saved me on a few occasions because it's like, you know, what's the worst case scenario? You go on stage, you struggle to speak,

and the people who are worth the time will completely understand how you feel. And they'll be like, you know what, that must have been really hard for that person. And the people who are like, that was a shit speech,

are dickheads. You don't want to spend time with them anyway. I know you so well. Because we were talking about stuff for the Miss Me Library, me and Nat, and the first thing I want to do is a Dr. Zeus with you. And I was like, Jordan will understand. Jordan will get this. When I say Dr. Zeus is one of the greatest teachers that ever lived,

Jordan will understand. Yeah, yeah, he is. I think also, Jay, what you're saying is like, be really careful of what you make things in your head. Yes, yes, exactly that. A really good way to remember that is to look at the past and go, oh my gosh, remember when I made that, this big monster. Yeah, exactly.

It's like, it can't harm me now. Yeah. It's not real. It's all you. As a great teacher says, I forgot his name. He says, never forget that you are. Never forget, that's it. No, never forget that you are a spiritual being in a human body.

Hang on, with a mind. It's just your mind. It's not you. Probably Joe Spencer. No, it wasn't. You don't know this guy. All right, let's have another question. Hi, Jordan and Makita.

I wanted to ask for some advice on how I teach my children to walk through this ever-changing world with confidence when I have none myself. I've struggled with my self-confidence my entire life. And now as a mum of two, I worry every day that my own self-confidence issues will rub off on them and that I'm giving them all the wrong messages.

I try my best to build them up and to make them feel loved and secure. But I wondered if there was any other tips or advice that you would have. Thanks so much. Oh, thank you, darling. God, that's so difficult. Do you know, I even felt that guilt with Zeddie the other day, so I can't even imagine what it's like as a parent.

I personally believe, from my experience, that we learned from how a parent treats themselves rather than what they're trying to install in us. I think my mom wouldn't mind me saying this, but like my mom was and continues to be like my biggest supporter and installed in me like a belief that I can kind of do anything. But in terms of like how I treat myself, I've had to do a lot of work to undo, I think,

how I saw her treat herself. Oh my God. So that's so that and that's really difficult. And also I just want to say I'm not a parent to keep saying the parent. So it's difficult to really comment. But I will say that I think I can imagine and seeing the parents in my life like my friends that is really easy to think you have to do everything right. I just don't think that's realistic.

I think you're going to in some way do something wrong and the child at some point will have an opportunity to be able to, you know, like re-instate the balance. I just think the best thing we can do is just be honest and like vulnerable about it. You know, like if somebody's not, if something's like, okay, here's another cool thing that my mum did, which I find interesting. I spoke about this yesterday actually. is that I'm like quite a fearless person.

I feel fear, but I will do something anyway. You know, like I get scared and, but I still have this thing in me which kicks in where I'm just like, I still can do it. Some things I don't want to do and some things, some things I'll obviously avoid. But if I compare it to people I've met and in my life, I'm definitely more fearless, you know? And so like, why does that happen? Well, I have a real core memory and that is that I was walking up a,

Like a big, these big steps. I can't remember where we were. Maybe Greece, somewhere like Greece, up these steps. And my mom has vertigo. So we got to a certain point and my mom couldn't move anymore because how she feels it is that her Achilles just like stop. They like root her into the ground and she becomes too scared to move. But she didn't.

She never made me feel like I couldn't climb the steps. She just let me know that she couldn't. That's an example of where the guidance has actually played against the, she was vulnerable in that moment. She wasn't lying. She was like, look, I can't go any further, but I really think you should. It's confusing though, isn't it? Because we do have two parents who are such fearless women.

Yeah. But who hated on themselves for so long. It's very confusing as a child. I think being a conscientious parent anyway is a good start, you know? Like, that's what I'd want from a parent. Yeah. You know, and I think I just feel like everyone, everyone, not just parents, everyone in life should relieve themselves of expectation to be perfect.

or flawless because it's just not realistic. And I think... Also, I don't know how old your kids are, but what I've seen that's been really beautiful, particularly Lily and her kids and Phoebe and her kids, is that the older they've got, the more kind of confidence in their little teams they've given each other,

especially when they've really gone through things. It's become really transactional. And I've thought, I remember that with my mother as well. When there's a time where there's guidance and there's the parent and the child, but very, it's quite quick. you become a team and I know I helped my mum as much as she helped me with both of us having confidence and still does this day absolutely do actually my mum calls me when she's feeling very low in confidence

and I do the same and we can really lift each other up so you know with parenting what I've seen as an observer is that things always change and that is something to look forward to I think when you can become a team find confidence from your kids not just worry about having to give it to them yes love that let's have another question bliv okay here's a text one for listen bitch can arrogance versus confidence be dependent on perception by the observer does the person in front of you decide whether or not you are confident or i mean we can just even discuss the difference between the two like what would you could you let could you let me know i wonder what is arrogance as a definition i actually like i'm fascinated to know what i think i i assume in my head

that arrogance is kind of an unfounded confidence correct it's confidence without anything for it to Excessive. Yeah. Arrogance is an overbearing display of superiority, self-importance and excessive pride. Wow. It's interesting that they specify pride. It is characterised by an inflated sense, right? They have one's own abilities.

So, so like, I think like, yeah, so an arrogance would be, yeah, it was incompetence. I think it's kind of what we're maybe touching on a little bit earlier where it's like it would be arrogant of someone to assume they know something that they don't know about. or it would be arrogant of someone to like, you know, like, you know, I remember one video of, um, there was like a flood. There's like a flood in, there's excessive rain in, in England and there was like a flood under a bridge

and loads of cars and they kind of stopped and put the hazards on at the beginning of this. And then one car just, just drove into the water, like annoyed that people had stopped and then just instantly started drowning. Not the person, so they were safe. It wasn't like that deep,

but like the car just lifted off the floor and then everyone just found it hilarious. because you're just an idiot because you listen to the community around you. Like they're clearly saying don't drive under the bridge and they did it. Yes. I would say that comes up a lot in driving arrogance.

It's like the need to be in front of something that is not moving. It's like what the fuck? I'm like there's no logic on the roads. No, but that's interesting, isn't it? It's like maybe what happens when we are met with a machine that we are in charge of, it taps into a sort of arrogance. Yeah, maybe. Actually, there's a, actually they did it in mother.

the land. Yeah, it was hilarious. About, you know, the idea of the white van man. Yeah. And yeah,

what, darling or lucky saddle and all that. And this woman sort of starts becoming this thing because she's in this white van. But I was like,

hmm, I wonder what comes for, is it the machine or the man that becomes the white van man? Do you know what you mean? One place where those two worlds collide

in a very interesting ways actually rap music. I have lived for now, what, 15 years? is, I mean, nowadays, rap isn't my main focus, but obviously I was a rapper at the beginning of Rizzle kicks. Like, that was where my passion for music really lay. And then I kind of started singing and that was maybe a bit more where I got interested. But what I found so

interesting about a rap, and actually what I felt like an outsider and still do feel like an outsider in rap, generally, is that most rappers, especially most successful rappers genuinely believe that they're the best rapper in the world. Like all of, yeah, no, no, honestly, to the point where I've been like, no way. And they're like, yeah, yeah. They've been, Cano, gigs, like, Chip, Dave, like these people will believe. And they almost have to believe,

because that's part of the culture, that they are the greatest. You know, go to the US, I'll probably think 50. Actually, know, maybe in their latter years, they start to be a little bit more modest. But, like, certainly at their peaks, Jay-Z or whoever, I mean, kind of, it comes about saying.

Like, these people, they're just, like, obsessed with the idea that they are the best thing that's ever lived. I have to say, The difference in confidence and arrogance in musicians when I used to interview pop stars for a living, it would always be the ones that were up and coming that were arrogant and always the ones that were killing it, legends, you know, just like successful. Talent.

Talent was the difference. Talent was the difference. I always remember thinking like, how come Will Smith is so charming and lovely, but I won't say who? I'm being such a hossholes. And it's like, okay, talented, not. And when you're not talented, you are covering for something. So there becomes an arrogance that is involved in that rather than relying on your confidence. Will Smith doesn't need to prove to me anything.

He's just can't for a guy. Funny motherfucker. I will say, though, again, just specifically rap music, Will Smith is not the best rapper. No, he's a fucking awful rapper, but he's confident in who he is as Will Smith. Will Smith's actually delusional. So I don't know if that's the best, like, because one of his most famous, one of his most famous, quotes is like if I get on a treadmill and you get on a treadmill and we're competing to see who'll finish last, I'll either win or die. That's what he would say. Like you're not getting

me off that treadmill. I will, I will, if I don't beat you, I'll die. Is that delusional or confident? Is that delusional? Like boss man, like, what, why are you competing with a random personal treadmill? You're all right. So what I'm trying to say is this is like, in rap, I found it's interesting because I've always been modest in my approach and it literally doesn't translate into the rap world. It just doesn't translate. Like the whole thing is about Brevardo. The whole thing is about,

I literally never have thought I'm the best rapper. I'm not interested in being the best rapper. I just think I'm a rapper and I say some dope shit. I say there's some lyrics where I'm like, those lyrics are sick. Like, come on, you've got to hear those lyrics. But do I think I'm better than Dave? Do I think I'm better than Little Sims?

Or do I think I'm better than like, who might be heroes when I'm growing up, like, Pharo Monch. or Andre 3000. No, I don't think I'm better than them. I think I'm different to them and I'm in my own space. I'm the best of being me. But what's weird is that doesn't translate. And actually, one of the most wild moments in my career ever was me and Harley were working with Pharrell, right, in Miami. And I remember when we were working on his beat, he turned to me, he was like giving us this big up, right? It was like, oh my God, you guys have got that old school flavor,

that backpack, you know, sound that daisy age, you know, and he like turns to me. And he's like, you know what I mean? And I was like, we're all right. Whoa. I remember saying like, yeah, we're not bad. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what you're just saying. And he literally, honestly, he honestly looked at me like, why are you here?

Like, I remember it vividly. It was like, she, like, scarred me. Why was he asking you why you were here? No, he looked at me in my response to him big and us up and my response being like, yeah, we're all right. Like, he looked like confused. Like I had like I had said something repellent. Like if you're here in Miami making a song with me,

how can you think you're all right? Right. Yeah, I know. But I just don't, for me and my outlook at the time is, you know, art is so subjective. I don't know who the fuck things were good or not. I just know I like making music. That was my, that was my approach.

But. That's a very free place to be. But then I saw someone come in to the studio and pitch themselves as a rapper. And it was like the most confident thing ever. A rapper called Bia, this is before, she's huge now. But at the time she was just working under Farrell. She was called Bianca Trill. back then.

She came into the studio and she was, and Farrell was like, do you mind if, if she jumps on the end of the song? And we were like, no, not at all. Like, are you ready? She was like, my fucking, am I ready? Yeah, but that's very American. Me and Harley were like, yo, what the fuck? And she just gets in the boot and just lays this verse.

I was like, dude, I need to go to therapy or something because like, I don't know what's getting in my fucking way. No, no, no. That's just Americans. That's just being American. It's so is. Come on. No, it is.

It is. Let's have our final question for this week's Lism Bitch. The theme has been confidence. And oh, it's taking us round the houses, as always. Hi, Jordan and Mickey. I'm Ruby and I'm from North East Sunden. Yeah, you are. And my question about confidence is,

have either of you ever had an experience that's knocked your confidence? And what did you do to rebuild that confidence in yourself again? I'm 19 and I feel like when I was younger, I definitely had a lot more confidence in, my identity and socially as well but that's definitely took a hit as I've gotten older and I just wondered if either of you have experienced something similar and what you did to come out of that.

Thank you. No Ruby, I'm afraid I can't help you. Nothing's ever shook me. Oh, Roobes, where the fuck do we begin? I'm just trying to think is it always been by men. That is so pathetic. But yeah, probably mostly by men. But again, I made the men,

men that knocked my confidence far too powerful and made, uh, it wasn't a weak, kind of pathetic man saying terrible things to me. It was a big powerful king that, whose word was scripture. Do you know what I mean? Obviously like heartbreak, uh, getting my heart, well, breaking my own eye in a way, but you're broken that's, that's like, that's like, okay, can I just ask about that? Why do you think that heartbreak knocks our confidence? Well, because if you're the person who's, being left in a photograph that's like, you know, yeah, it can mean that can mean different things to different people and it's obviously, it's often most impactful in my situation. If I don't have a good grasp on my own self-worth or an understanding of my own self-worth, meaning I could

extend that compassion to another person, then if I don't have that, then like the person leaving leaves me wondering that I'm looking at myself through their eyes or I'm like, again, I've externalised the power to their opinion. So my confidence is low because I think, well, if I, if they've left me, then that means that I am the issue. Whereas if my self-worth was higher, yeah, if my self-worth was higher, I wouldn't be looking for their approval. It's the same thing as we said before about the public speaking.

Like, you've externalised my view of self onto another person rather than finding it from within me, which would then, you mean you can weather storms slightly, you know, like externalising anything is really how you, you know, when you're placing your own power in someone else's gaze or in their hands, you know, it's going to... Yes, I think gaze is important, not just hands, gaze. Me and my therapist call it the audience. Yeah. And I'm desperately trying to recast it.

Yeah. Because people come into my life and I'm suddenly like, oh my God, they're the new audience. I'm like, no, no, you're the audience. You're the audience. You're the audience. I think I had a real profound moment once during a ceremony, which I can say now.

During a ceremony, I won't get into the details, but I had a profound experience where I had, and this might sound really, I've never said this out loud. I've never said this out loud. So it might sound silly out loud, but I had this realization that I have been with me through everything. That makes sense?

No, been there. Right. And I suddenly was like, well, that's so cool. I was like, Yeah, no, I know what you mean, though. You've been doing mirror work. I know you have. I haven't been doing mirror work.

I did a ceremony. I just told you what it was. But it was like. Yeah, but didn't you say you were saying, I love you a bit more often? Oh, I say that now. Yeah, that's a new thing. Yeah, I say, I love you.

I love you. I love you. I feel a bit out of sorts. But, but this was like, whoa, dude. Like, even though people have changed, they've come and gone. They've been in different states. Like, I have been with myself the entire time and I'm still here.

And that was a moment where I was like, that's incredible that I have my own back like that because I'm here. otherwise, you know, I wouldn't have my, if I didn't have my own back, I wouldn't be here. Okay, now add to that. And also, it's you and you for the rest as well. Yeah, yeah.

It's like, it's not like, oh, well, we've done good anyway, bye, I'm going to go be another person now. It's like, it's actually quite overwhelming to realize that it's just this, this faith, this heart, this body, this mind, for eves. Yeah.

So you best fall in love with yourself. Yes, but I also, I also, will say as well, just as this side note, it's not really quite confidence, but in terms of pain, this is an important thing to say. I think it's men's mental health mom actually, but I think in terms of pain, one thing that also helped me is even though I realized that it's me and me, in terms of like staying alive, I very much feel like my life isn't mine, which is important. It's an important differentiation. So I've been with me through everything, but I don't think that I am alive for me. If that makes sense. That's very good. Do you have

It's very good Jesus. That's good Jesus. You know what I mean, though? No, I get it. If I get to a point where I feel like really low, and I have done, I'm not so much recently, but like, you know, when I was a while ago, I think about the, I think about being of service, you know?

Listen, Bob says the same thing. He's like, if I was in this life just for me, I wouldn't be interested in it. Yeah, amazing. Hello. Yeah, welcome to service. But can I just say to sit there young person, the reason why life gets scarier as you get older

is because you literally experience more things and then you start to understand consequence. That's literally it. Just to calm your nerves. Like one of the things that I find so fascinating about people between 19 and 22 is that they're installed with what exactly we've begun this listen bitch by saying

they have confidence by their incompetent respectfully. So you go into things and you go like, I actually feel like super adult. It's like only people who are 20 say that. So that's because you're not super adult. Yeah. And then weirdly you turn to. 35 to 40 and you're like, God, I feel so young.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, we experience enough consequence to realize that life's actually kind of sad sometimes. Fuck, I miss 19 to 22. God, I loved that age time. Yeah, I didn't.

I don't miss it. Oh, yes, you did, dickhead. Don't try it. What, do you mean? You were having a ball. I would never go back. No, I don't want to go back. Actually, I wouldn't mind.

I'd never go back. I like my age now. I like how feel now. I like how I think now. Of course you do. You're a man and you're 34. You told me in a previous episode, you've reached your peak. No, not yet.

No, not yet. That was it. Not yet, Dickin. What's you mean? You just started to get close to peaking or something. I'm peaking at 70, boss. What are you talking about? Crescendo.

God. Oh, God. Yeah, no, me too. That was beautiful. Roobes at the end there, North East London, Gilbert from Uganda. It feels like we're all making this big move, this big leap together.

And that fills me with joy. And I suppose confidence. So it's full circle. shit out here on ListenBitch. Guys, officially we are changing things up a little bit with ListenBitch because sometimes the vibes and the thoughts shift and change. So the new place to find out what the topic will be and to send your voice notes into

will be through our new social media pages, which I am buzzing about. Miss me dot forever across all the social pages. And we own them. We own this shit now. We own these pages now. This is the expansion of Miss Me. The Listen Bitch theme will now be on those socials because sometimes we change our minds or sometimes something will, you know,

enter into our brains and souls in the days that follow. Or sometimes we have an idea and then we realize it's a terrible idea. Sometimes it's a terrible idea. Sometimes it's so one of the beautiful things of having these social pages is that we can obviously put a bit more thought into it. And also you can send your voice notes via that page. You can check out what the listen bitch steam is. You can engage a bit like that.

And again, it creates more of a community vibe. So it's a win-win for us personally. Yeah, we'd like your help. What the fuck do you? want to talk about. Yeah, let us know. miss me.4 ever. Thanks for listening to Miss me. This is a Persephonica show.