Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! Democratising reality

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens answer your questions about VILLAINS.Next week, we want to hear your questions about LYRICS. Please send us a voice note on WhatsApp: [phone]. Or, if you like, send us an email: [e-mail] episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan HaskinsMiss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Welcome to this week's episode of Listen Bitch. Uh, and we have one here. Oh, my goodness.

This is Mimi for those listening. This is my bitch. Mimi. Oh, yeah. Uh, she's a dog, obviously. So she's next to me One of my rescues Okay we'll just do it with your bitch

We're gonna be talking about villains Right well welcome Welcome to listen bitch You know that this is like my 154th episode Of Miss Me So maybe like my It's not enough 61st of

No that's not right Anyway We've done a lot of listen bitches Really happy you're here And don't come for me If I've got quite a lot of Disney 90s villains. You clearly don't know enough about Jade then

if you think that's something I can come for you for. I'm currently looking at a shelf dedicated to Disney characters. Is that an image ruiner? Nah, that's quite sweet. Yeah. And my mum, my mum hated Disney when I was a kid, so I didn't really watch much of it.

I bet Emma did. I bet Emma wasn't like, yeah, let's watch The Little Mermaid. But then oddly, but we have a Walt Disney poster, oddly because it was kind of like an old school technical kind of poster. It's kind of special. Oh my God, I watched this document. I'll tell you in a minute. Let's start, listen bitch. This isn't just me and Jordan chatting away, just gabbing

the day away. We do it with you lot. So let's have today's first question for today's listen bitch. Hi, Makita and Jordan. My question is, what truly defines a villain? The choices and actions they take

or the way others interpret and label them. Wow. S succinct to the point. Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, it is a good question. I don't know whether I'm allowed to let name and shame people. Probably not. You mean name and shame a villain?

Someone in real life that I have now realized. Nasty Nick off of EastEnders. No, but he was a great villain. EastEnders does a good villain, actually. But I was going to say Phil Mitchell, that's quite a narrative art because he's not. Anyway, I was actually going to talk about Woody Allen. Woody Allen very publicly was accused of molesting his daughter, Dylan. by his daughter Dylan and his ex-wife, me and Farrow,

and he has always denied these allegations. I read too much about him. No, what I did is I watched the documentary. It's called Alan versus Farrow. They just go through the whole story, and you hear his daughter explain in really graphic, specific detail, and it's really, really hard to turn away from it.

And it fucked me, Jordan, fuck me up. I was like, oh my God, I can't watch Woody Allen films anymore. And the worst thing about it, isn't that this guy's asking about villains and how they move. I think some of the greatest villains of fiction and real life are dancing in front of us. What do they say? In plain sight. Dancing in plain sight?

Hiding in plain sight. Hiding in plain sight, exactly. Because what the documentary shows you is that Woody Allen has been telling us, whether he's in it or someone else is, with a really, really, really young girl. Like Manhattan, she's 17. I actually haven't watched that. Right. Well, it's a fantastic film. And there's a whole other conversation

about how you can enjoy people's work when they, you know, they're a bad person or you believe them to be a part. That's a whole other thing. Big discussion. But yes, I would say the moves they make are usually quite visible and we choose to not see them

unless it is like a Disney villain and then they really are just being evil, quite obviously. Yeah, I mean, look, writer-directors. I had a whole thing with my, with a flatmate of mine, old flatmate. about a director, Lars Vandria, who I think is a twat. Oh. Because of something he wrote in a film and my friend was like,

oh, Jordan, you're being silly. It's a character. He's writing you from the character's perspective. I was like, no, motherfucker. I can tell the difference between someone writing a character's perspective and someone channeling their own perspective through a character. Like, come on. Right.

It's, you know, and it's to do with balance, nuance, there being some form of argument, like critique, you know? If someone's just also like relevance to the, fucking film. I mean, I could be more specific, but I don't want to bore people, but it's, yeah, look, it's, I hear you. Can you enjoy Lars Vontry's work still? No. Fortunately, I don't think there's much, there's not been much good work recently. He did the two, they did the lymphomaniac films, which is the point of which I was like, this guy's an idiot. Yeah, I found those films quite difficult. They're just ridiculous. And then from that point, I was like, there's not really much for me to miss out on. I studied a bit of him when I was younger, but, uh, yeah, I wouldn't,

be running to a last one tree of film for a second for sure. But that's really, it made it really difficult for me, like me and Namer, like our version of being like really cosy is to watch a Woody Allen film. I used to watch Woody Allen films

to go to sleep. Just watch Kirby enthusiasm instead. Oh, I love Kirby of this. He's not of it and I fucking love him. But it's that, but it's that kind of, it's that kind of like Jewish,

New York kind of humor. Of course. I don't know if he's a New Yorker. But, um... Yeah, well, he wrote Seinfeld. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's, Larry David's the king.

Okay, I'll replace Woody Allen with Larry David. That's actually a really good replacement. Yeah, that's really good. And also the other version of that style of comedy too, which I found really enjoyable is also Seth Rogen. I watched the studio recently and was like, damn, Seth Rogen is so funny. I forgot how funny he was.

Because actually some of those films that we grew up with super bad and stuff. Haven't, they haven't, yeah, they've aged kind of badly just because, honestly, I don't think people understand how far, like, Western metropolitan conversation has come on in the last decade in terms of gender and mental health and stuff. Yes, but I think they do something very clear. Anyway, we really have to stay on villains and there's no villains.

There's no villains in knocked up. I didn't hear that question as being specifically about real life people, but it's quite fascinating when you've equated it to that. If I'm going to answer it purely through a fictional perspective, I know that for me what makes a great villain on screen or in a book or wherever is if they are the audience can agree with their motives that that's when it becomes really tough if you can agree with the villain's motives then it becomes a complex character that ultimately does a bad thing and that bad thing by our metrics apparently is when we feel they've gone too

far i actually said some of this a little bit with when i was on miss me with lily a few weeks ago I spoke quite passionately about why I get annoyed by cinematic heroes and actually empathise quite a lot with cinematic villains. Okay, so let's do, let's finally just do Jafar from Aladdin. Okay, so what, so his narrative arc is he works for the Sultan. I'm sorry, why is this making me laugh? He works for the Sultan. I imagine, break it down.

He's a little, let's fucking do this. He's a little dissatisfied with his role. And wants more power. That's always where it gets a little. That always is kind of the narrative arc of a lot of Disney villains, Ursula included. But anyway, what he does in his need for more power is gets Aladdin kidnapped and thrown in a bag into the sea, hypnotizes the Sultan to do whatever he wants

and starts to like destroy the town of Acrobar so that he can become the greatest, most. powerful being of all time. Yeah, it sounds awful. But there's no real, like, so that I can then give back to the community. It's just, it's power hungry. And I feel like that's quite a lazy

place to always land on what a villain's motives is. I don't think it's lazy. I just don't think it may, I just, like, when I hear the question, what is, makes a good villain? Like, that's a villain. And those villains exist, believe me, like. Okay. But I think perhaps it's more reflective of the human spirit

it to have a villain like look what i'd said i don't want to repeat myself but maybe i just will but what i'd said is before is like thanos for example i know you've not seen the marvel films but in in the marvel films a lot of other people have you you were building up to this warfare with this one villain called thanos but he's his his his motive is compelling he believes that the universe has got to a point where there are too many civilizations fighting over scraps and so he wants to gain these infinity stones collect them up and then he's going to do one click and half the universal disappear.

But this is where it gets a bit mad, right? Traditionally, I think you'd add a eugenics element because then he's just a villain, right? Like if it was like, I'm going to take away all humans or all of a particular race or particular species, then you're like, oh, this is getting, this is kind of, but he didn't. Thanos's one was totally random. Like it was like the click was completely random.

So anyone could get it, like, it is not. And then he, and then in order to gain the power to do the click, he had to sacrifice someone he genuinely loved. Right. And so he's actually heartbroken because he believes that his goal extends past his individual personal relationships. So sacrifice. It is, look, at the end of the day, you know, he's obviously is the villain,

but the reason why I think many people watch those films would be like, damn, maybe I agree with that. I mean, look, if you... No, but that's great. No, but that's great writing there, isn't it? If you take it apart, you could say you get all the stones and why don't you just click for there to be more resources, that would have made more sense.

But, but, but I just think in principle, the fact that he was willing to sacrifice someone he loved, which isn't a good thing, but he's doing it for what he believes to be a purpose beyond his life. That's interesting. Yeah, but a purpose greater than him. Let's have another question. You know what we should do?

Let's have a fucking another question. Hi, Makita. Hi, Jordan. This is Iona. And Sarah. And we are from southeast London, but we're currently vacationing in Miami. So we're sitting on the beach listening to your podcast. We just want to know, have you ever been betrayed as a villain in a real life scenario when in reality you were just trying to be the better person and help in the situation? Let us know. We look forward to hearing your response, hopefully. Bye. Thanks, guys. Yes, several times. Next question. move on but wait and the second part's true as well it was because you were being some sort of martyr no it wasn't being a martyr anyway go on because i had one and i wasn't being a martyr i was like yeah

no i've talked about it before here what is it oh your dog's here i just i was quite villainised by the papers and certain record labels uh when i was caught when i was caught when i was I was overheard calling Kesha a cunt in a hallway. Yeah, but that, okay, McKee, I told you this the last time we were on. That isn't the only thing you did. Okay, so, okay, on a more general level, I just do, I feel like I was kind of villainized a few times in the press when I was really, really young, and I found it really upsetting. So it's not nice to be told that you're not a good person when you're really young and you're,

and you are. It's horrendous. It was, I found that really hard. And I was just trying to make a telly. But telly, you. You know, like I've spoken on, I did Elizabeth Day's podcast and I spoke about when I did the island, that Bear Grill show. Oh, yeah. And they, they actually, they completely recontextualized an entire narrative to make me seem like this lazy person because I left early and they didn't like it.

And I couldn't believe it because I thought it was a reputable show and I was. But in a weird way, do you think that that was personal or they just were like, we want this narrative? They did it because I left early. Right, okay. Yeah. So that was not a good experience doing the islands. No, no. I would, I'd probably do well now because I'm more chill as a person now.

I was very busy back then and I like as in as a person, not even in my schedule. But it was just, I don't know, man. It was like I just, I expected something different. I've spoken about it quite a lot. And also sometimes I'm like, if I talk about it, someone's going to fucking watch it. And I just, this is such a poor portrayal of me on an island. Yes, let's not. Let's not drive people.

In real life, I'm trying to think, I think that I often, I have in my, life being that person in a in friendships or otherwise who will say what I think is an on it is my my honest opinion on something um sometimes it's met with hostility and you have to firm it yeah I've been that person a few times because I just can't I really don't like people dancing around things it really it actually kind of confuses me and makes me quite uncomfortable yeah but Jordan you know that people have quite a lot of issues with the truth yeah yeah And also I just get panicked that people don't make changes quick enough And then they end up being even in more of a difficult situation in the future

But then that was also my own issue too like listen I need to be better with I've had to learn as an adult you know about my own space and other people's boundaries And I've got to let people just you know do their thing Yeah next question please Hi Makita and Jordan if you were villains what would your outfit look like What outfit would I be if I was a villain Oh, well, I did really like Catwoman Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman and she does this great entrance where she just goes

and like does all these backflips and then she stops and then just goes, meow. Yeah. My mom used to be like, that's a bad bitch. Yeah. I loved Catwoman as a villain. I thought she was a bad man and I liked her narrative arc because she is like a secretary.

This is also quite a good villain story when someone is like overlooked and then they have to become a villain to sort of be seen. That is, that's a very common villain arc. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Happens. I like that one a lot. Being seen. Can I just to give a shout out to the Penguin series?

Did you watch that? No, but my mom did. So the genius of the Penguin series is it was one of the first. What was it on? Apple. Sky. Is it so good? I'm going to put it on my list.

It's phenomenal. What's his history? How does it? did he become more penguony? Oh, well, he basically, we lived in a really rough neighbourhood and he, um, there was some kind of thing between his father and like a local gangster and, and, um, his mom. And he was just kind of raised into a dodgy community. But do they defigure him?

Yeah, yeah. He gets, he has, uh, there's some kind of like accident. I can't remember now, but there's a big accident that he just survives. But listen, the main thing is, he is, he is. that person he works for bad people he figures the game out and then he steps up but this is what's interesting is we as the audience i would say are rooting for him for a lot of the series which is kind of odd because he's going to become batman's you know nemesis they in one choice i was going to say just because he's bad he loses the entire audience in a good way like they like they build up

this entire story so he does one thing and then all of us watching go well it's something wild. Okay. That's good writing though to make you love him that whole time. Yeah. And suddenly we go,

nah. Shit, he's evil. That's not our guy. Yeah. It's not our guy. That's not our guy, bro. I thought it was my guy.

That's not my guy, bro. I'm swerving that. I'm swerving that. Okay. Interesting. I do think a villainous narrative art can very often be a hell of lot more interesting

than a protagonist. My outfit. No, sorry. I don't get to say my fucking outfit, mate. Sorry, I'm catwoman. Who are you coming to the party as? No, I'm not coming as a character. If I was, listen, the question was,

Jesus, Mekita, the question was, if you were a villain, what would your outfit be? Not what villain would you dress as to a party? But you can have catwoman. You can have catwoman. Okay, but that is a good point. I'd be dressed in black tie. I was just, I'm, now I'm with you, though.

Not like the penguin with the tails. No. But just that is one of the most menacing get-ups ever. To this day, I can't get my head around the fact that men wear little bow ties with black suits. It scares me. I've been to charity events before and I'm like, fuck all of you. Why does it scare you? Brother, why are you wearing a bow tie?

Like, who, like what is that? It's formality. It's like pasta. Yeah. I mean, it is a formality, but I get ties for some reason. I think it's deeper than that. I feel like someone in a suit was dark. you in some way once because it's not just...

No, because I've got a picture of me in a stupid fucking black tie suit when I'm a kid, I went some fucker's birthday, I don't know, I just like there's something, you know what it is for me is it's like those rooms, those black tie rooms, yeah, especially like what are they called, um, auctions. Okay.

Specifically auctioned. Yes. Because that one is, I have an early memory of being sent into some kind of, again, existential crisis. If all these people are rich enough to have these thousand pounds like multiple thousand pounds costing tuxedos

all these little things it's a reflection and you know what it is it's a reflection of elitist affluence and in these spaces you're having to convince these fuckers to spend money on charity with gifts yes I guess that is an auction

just give the money to charity what the fuck you're talking about why do you need to have like a one off painting by this fucking you know like war survivor just give the fucking money I actually I don't want to

to take down auctions as a concept because they do work. That's very menacing that you would be a guy. I have bought things in auctions before. In formal dress and then he's the villain. I think that's a nice twist. What twist, Macquita? Like, you know, like... What's the twist of that?

That's an immediate. No, because I feel quite safe surrounded by people in formal attire. I'm like, nothing bad could happen here. That's crazy. Mekita, if I walked into a room, if I walked into a room, full of men in black tie with bow ties and they turned to look at me I can't think of a greater sense of terror

Really? See, I'd be like Nothing bad will happen here Everyone's in a suit Maybe this is my need to be submerged in the white establishment And your fear of it Yeah, perhaps No, no, it's not even necessarily

Yeah, I don't know That's a perfect moment for us to go to a break Isn't it, Keith? Welcome back to Listen, Bitch. Welcome back. Let's have another question, please. For this week, says, Mitch, the theme is villains. Hi, Makita and Jordan.

It's Amy here from Leightonstone, long-time listener, first-time messenger. My question about villains is just kind of, you know, as a 38-year-old woman, I find myself thinking about the idea of the Disney villain and, you know, who we, you know, grew up with. And I, now that I'm older, relate more to those villains than the princesses. And my question is, you know, were they really villains or just misunderstood women who looked a bit different, wanted power, were just going through the menopause, they were fighting for freedom, they were, you know, slighted or bullied, and were seeking revenge. I don't know, what's your take? Thank you. Bye.

Free Ursula. Great question. Let's talk about it, Miss Disney. Well, I'm just realizing it's the entirety of the success of Wicked. Yes. Because it's giving a voice to the Wicked Witch of the West and giving us her story. To the villain. Why the fuck are those people so pissed off?

Yeah, what did they go through? Do you know what I mean? Ursula is Titan's sister. Sorry, I just, I'll be honest to you. I just said Ursula because I can see a model of her here. Have you never seen the little? Little Marmad. Maybe when I was like eight.

You haven't watched it again, like, just to be cozy at Christmas? What, the new one? No, the old one. I don't watch Disney films to be cozy. I'm so sorry. Don't let they're done it, Jade. No, I said this. Yeah, so what do you do when she shoves on Aladdin?

I don't, I don't. She makes me watch ones that I haven't seen. And sometimes I'll just be like, yeah, yeah, I saw that. But I saw it for like 10 minutes when I was like six or something. Yeah, let's not let her know you're lying. We don't want this to be. No, I'm not never lying. And also I do watch them.

For example, there's loads of Pixar films like that I was turned in my nose up at the whole thing and then I remember about a year or two into us being with each other. She was like, you've got to watch this film Coco. You've ever seen Coco? Yes, I have seen it.

And I was like, fine, I watched Coco, silly Pixar film, whatever. Makita. You cried. I was belly sobbing like a baby. It is about the love between a grandmother and her grandchildren. Oh my God. They had to console me.

Jade and her best friend had to console me. I was uncontrollable. It is one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen. I love Coco with all my heart. No, listen, don't fuck around. When Disney or Pixar, when they get it right, they just, they know what we need to get, like to tap into deeper. And that's why they write great villains as well,

because they know how to scare the little child in all of us. Well, the genius of the Pixar stuff is there's actually not really villains If you think about like, again, inside out to the villain in inverted commas is like anxiety But it's not really because you get to know why anxiety is the way they are But Disney built their fucking brand on villains Yeah, but go on, name me something, let's walk through who the caller's talking about Well, actually, if you think about, oh my God, well, the sleeping beauty Before Wicked, or maybe it was around the same time, but Manifacent, have you seen what she

goes through to become that, like, angry witch. Is that Angelina Jolie? Yeah, she falls in love with this guy, and he essentially sort of like raped her by cutting, like soaring off her wings, soars off her wings on her body. I think we're moving into that space of understanding, though. You've named two films where it flipped it, Wicked, arguably one of the biggest existing stories out there. Also, Penguin, like I say, that was kind of a big vibe.

switch for, you know, that being considered one of the best hero series or anti-hero series. I think people are pushing more towards villain stories because we're starting to understand, I'm hoping, with our developed understanding of mental health and everything else that comes with it, trauma, blah, blah, blah, that we're trying to integrate ourselves with that shadow side, man. Yeah, I think also what maybe everyone's done is like, according to, like, mirroring the time of when these films first came out, like, you know, villain, the kind of, the, the kind of archetypes of like villain, princess, troll was like just the way the world was. It was all very black and white.

But now what we're talking about is empathy. Aren't we really, Jordan? Like suddenly there was this way of trying to teach the world that they'd given all these villains to. Actually, how do we feel for them? How do we look at their story and see what they've been through? Yes. And also I think it's just a reality that morality is subjective. and we're trying to get heads around that.

Democritizing morality. Democitizing morality. Can we call the episode that, please? That's very good. Well, it is that, isn't it? And also, you know, again, once you talk to pull back the layers, like the grounds on which we decide somebody is villainous

are just often quite shallow. You know, they'd just be like, be ugly. You're like, oh, look at that ugly person. They must be evil. Oh, my God. Or they're turned evil by the fact that the world treats them so badly for being ugly. It's just it's like pigeons are vilified, aren't they? Pigeons, like people think pigeons are dirty like vermin with wings and they're literally not.

They're beautiful, they're beautifully complex and incredibly intelligent birds with a really long history of being actually, have actually been deified by humans. And part of our like literal communication strategies at one point. Yes, there's one pigeon called Cherami, who served in World War I, which was given French medals of honour for saving 121 soldiers after having been shot twice. It still delivered a message and returned home. I'm just so pleased you know that, and then you could share it with us. Yes, I'm obsessed of pigeons.

There was a beautiful article written about pigeons the other day in The Guardian, and I was so buzzing, I think I must have messaged the guy. I don't know, or commented at least, I was over. the moon they're so misunderstood and we just kick them i yeah absolutely it's shoe them and spit at them and 260 million worldwide yeah yeah probably one of the most successful bird and a species on the planet really intelligent top 10 or maybe even top five smartest birds on the planet here's the real kicker what is a dove uh a mottled pigeon i mean sorry a clean white pigeon it's a white pigeon is a dove so what is it just a white pigeon

It's just the white, the pigeon breed that's white. No, stop. And look at, look at their marketing campaign. Look at how they're treated. Like, literally, that's not legal. Talk about deified. Also, while we're talking about pigeons, I just want to shout out to how amazing their call is.

I've said this on several podcasts. It's a bang-up, brother. Is it? I don't really know the pigeon call. Oh, of course, I do. And thank God you do that so well, because we were going to have to find a pigeon noise. But Will, Will, you don't push that button today

because Jordan can do an incredible pigeon. I mean, that was amazing. Really impressive. Okay, you asked for the final question. Final question, please. Hi, Mikita and Jordan. Right, villains. Which villain redemption arc would you actually

believe. Like, if Jafar showed up with a therapy receipt and a podcast about growth, would you buy it or is it giving manufactured apology video? Thanks. Okay. Or is it giving manufactured apology video? No one's done Jafar's origin story. Who knows what Jafar went through? So I would believe any villain that's expressions, It expresses change and growth. I think we all deserve that space to change and grow, even Jafar. You know what I don't like? I don't like when they don't let the protagonist or the hero kill the villain.

The villain slips. It's like, let him kill him. I'm not going to not love the hero. Yeah, you need, we need vengeance. We need that. We need that sense of justice. We need the physical justice. but that's the morality thing like

I'm bigger than to take someone no motherfucker if that person has done me right for year if this person has been hunting you four years to try and kill you you're going to kill him you're not going to go I hope you trips there's only one way to deal with this a fair trial

I'm the upholder of moral democracy and you will live by my do you know I mean my favourite films is ones where they just go bang do you know who's a great villain Hook. I watched Hook the other day

which is obviously Peter Pan's story but the film Hook Tell me you've seen Hook Yeah ages ago Oh my god Okay so maybe you're meant

to send me stupid TikTok shit that you think I should see And I'm meant to show you some bloody 90s films you missed In the BBC series Luther

Arguably one of the best Crimes series of all time Yeah okay Okay The hesitance is killing me But it's fine The initial villain Alice, played by Ruth Wilson, incredible character, goes from being the villain to the police

accomplice on the basis. She's a genius psychopath. The end of the first season, the villain of the series is unredeemable, right? He isn't, I don't want to ruin it for anybody who's not seen it, but it is shocking. Is he the guy that keeps, he's the one that keeps breaking into people's houses? Breaks into one particular person's house and, and ends up doing something that leaves me with one of the saddest endings to an episode of a crime drama I've ever witnessed in my life and Sia is singing over the top of it and it's like really deep and then and and then Idrisel was just running down the street and it's just really deep and and I loved it so much no Luther Luther fucked me up that I did I've never been so scared it's so scary

yeah okay now you're talking about the later series this this no I'm talking about series one and two the most satisfying thing in the end of one is the fact that luf was trying to do up the police thing like we need to take this guy in and Alice just fucking does she yeah exactly The argument was, the argument was, you know, it's more painful for that person to live with the reality of what they've done. The argument was that death is seen as a form of relief. Yes, a get-out. But then she, with her psychopathic look, was like, no, there's nothing worse than death. And which one do you agree with?

Do you think a real villain, a true villain should have to live, live and remember what they've done and live in that, we hope, remorse? weirdly I think that both things I know it sounds like a get out a cop out but it's not I believe in both things at the same time what was the actual question I can't even remember

what was the question the question was the woman was joking about the idea of any villain doing like an apology that's what's cool nowadays is to do like you know

listen guys I really messed up I shouldn't have I thought of maybe a funny person who could do an apology video like some kind of ridiculous version of a villain and it's escaped me. Okay, well.

Who would... Oh, I just had it then. Oh, my God, no. It's okay. We don't need to end on a joke. Oh, sinners. Listen, just... This isn't even a response to the question,

but I'm just want to shove this in. The villains and sinners were fucking brilliant. Shout out Jack O'Connell. What I loved the most about the villain and sinners was the fact that they were nice. That's what people got to watch out for. Sometimes bullets smile. The whole thing was...

Yeah, totally. The vampires were like, Guys, come join our community. We're free. We're at peace. Like, what the fuck? That's really fucking scary. Yeah, that is really fucking scary.

Okay, Jordan, how are you getting on with your busy day? I'll get on with my busy day. The theme for next week's listen, bitch, is I was going to say music or songs. Which one do you think? That's the same fucking thing. No, remember. That's so vague. You have to think about the years and years of.

miss me to come we have to eke things out so is it songs what kind of songs well it just can be like any song that's meant something to you for whatever reason and then those songs i listened to quite a lot of desert island dis the other day i thought music is so evocative the power of music i guess yes but that's basically just songs i just think for like songs is okay fine songs go on then i'm just thinking maybe should be like songs that changed you life no but come now next week's listen Bitches breathing. Lyrics. Lyrics.

Yeah, lyrics. Yeah, lyrics is quite good. Well, Lola Young just did a massive interview on CBS in America. It was amazing. And they asked her what got her into music and she said it was a case of you by Joni Mitchell. And it would be so beautiful. It would be so beautiful to be able to highlight the moments when lyrics are like.

Yes, that's brilliant. I'm with you. The theme for next week's listen bitch is Lyrics. We got there in the end We got to the actual specification of what we wanted to talk about That's bloody good, I like it Send your questions to oh 8,000, 30, 40, 90

Oh, 30, 40, 90 90, 90, 90 Thanks Jordan Thank you so much everybody This is being this week's Listen, bitch, I'm Jordan Stevens That's Macita Oliver You've got to come back

And listen next week Don't you miss out Oh pet Don't you guys miss a thing Stay tuned Back after the break Keep it locked No

I just want to say For next week's listen bitch Can people please tell us What they had for dinner The night before I always want to know where people live Like be specific I live in a top floor flat

I live in a farmhouse but could you also let us know what you have for dinner the night before? I think this can be really yummy. I want to hear about everyone eating. Okay, we'll see you next week. Bye, Jordan. I'll see you next week.

Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Mikita Oliver. This is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds. Our culture can cancel someone in the blink of an eye. Celebrities, sports stars, politicians, influencers and royalty can all find themselves in the firing line. In the age of AI-generated evidence, lawsuits written in legalese, you need to pass the bar to decipher.

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