Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! Fades and Flashes

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens answer questions from famous friends and family about change.Next week, we want to hear your questions about RISK. Please send us a voice note on WhatsApp: [phone]. Or, if you like, send us an email: [e-mail] episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

The following episode contains strong language, themes of an adult nature and we do talk about addiction. plus five, six, six plus two, eight, eight, plus six, fourteen, one plus four, five, which means five were a great, are a great boy band. I told you, I told you that no one from five got back to me with a Christmas message for you, okay? Don't make me feel worse than I already do. Numbers are important. Yeah, it's the 5th of January, so really, we should have caught our Christmas trees down by now, but you know that change, you know that move into the new year, it's softer with

A tree. I like trees. Yeah. It would be great for you. We could just have a living tree and, I mean, I'm sure people do. People have gardens and stuff. But I would like a tree in my house always. A tree shouldn't just be for Christmas.

We should have the tree all year round and decorate it accordingly. That's good. Yes, exactly. I could do a spring tree. Just like bunnies and chocolate, baby. Little lambs. Hot cross buns. Summer tree, you could hang like fruit and flowers to really show like the abundance of summer.

And then you got your Christmas tree for winter. Done. So, this is really exciting that we get to experience this together. January 2025 was a very different year. I started, you know what? I was in Kenya with you. I know. And Lily was really going through it.

And I had to remember set up in the hotel. You were part of the Miss Me International Production crew. You'd really come up. Are you remembering this as you're saying it? Yeah. It feels like you're remembering it as you're saying it. I obviously know this. I was all like, what was I doing last Miss Me January?

If I was with Jordan, I've made him be in the intro with Jade and mum and uncles and golf. Yeah, well done, Keats. Now you're working and you get to experience something pretty damn special, which is this. I won't explain it anymore because if you were listening last year, you know what's coming. Today's listen, bitch.

The theme is change, but the surprise is who's asking the bloody questions. Let's have my question. Hey, Keats, hey Jordan. I just want to say, first off, You two are brilliant. I mean, like really, really brilliant. You're amazing broadcasters. You are very, very good communicators. I really, really love you both. Yeah, we're talking about change. You know, change is something that all my life, I spent running away from change. I absolutely hated it. Change was something that really frightened me. I always loved the status quo, knowing what I was doing and feeling safe in that. And what has happened actually is that I have realized that all my really big growth has come from change and often quite painful change. So I had an amazing breakthrough when I got clean in the early 90s. I had another huge breakthrough after I had my brain tumour removed. I realized that I needed to de-stress my life. Interestingly, I realised that, but then the breast cancer, which I thought was a very, very frightening thing, made me realise that I really, really had to put that into place and I have now.

And I'm going to work a four-day week. So I feel so much better now about my life and trying to get it more balanced. So now, really, as I hit this stage of my life, I want to take more care of myself. that is my latest project, me, because I can't take care of anyone else if I'm not okay. I love you guys so much. Can we all have dinner in the new year? Love you, bye. Queen Divina, mate.

She's so good. She's such a guideer in my life I was just realising. You know the family link, right? With Davina? Oh yeah, you did explain this to me. Sorry, say again. She went out with Namer's dad for like six years. That was it.

When we were really young kids. So then she was a real. protector of me, but obviously she was drinking and taking drugs at the time. But then I remember when she got clean. And I also remember when she was doing streetmate. And I think without really knowing it, Jordan, I was studying her. I was like, this is different. This isn't how people use you to present television.

And she's on the streets. They need to bring that back. Yeah, I tried to bring it back for years. Really? I could have done streetmate well. But Davina has been through so much. I work with her. And she does work a lot.

And she obviously has been through this brain trauma this year. Brain tumour, but yes, brain trauma. It was sort of working again after three months. And she looks amazing. She's so healthy and looks after herself. But this is an amazing moment for her to say, I need to work less. And I'm going to do a four day week.

The way she works is still going to be hectic. But can you imagine she hasn't given herself a four day week? What should be on television for, 35 years? And it is the lesson of my last year, 2025. Even the painful shit, accept it, embrace it, go through. through it because the best shit is on the other side of everything we're most scared of. I have never learned that more than last year. Last year made a believer out of me that me having a violent presence near me in my home

is something I went through as a kid, probably the most traumatic thing I ever went through as a kid. And I had to face it as a grown-up and save myself as a grown-up. That's why I had the most amazing last three months of 2025 because I didn't realize, but I had to face that old monster. So the scary shit I'm now going to be like, come on You slay a dragon

Fuck, George and the dragon Yes, it's the greatest fables It's all the folk tales Look the monster in the eye And also say thank you If you even can Oh God, it's really lovely to hear Auntie Davina Thank you team

Davina is a fucking legend Absolutely adore Davina And the story prior to her Tuma is also wild Because I watched her talk about it A Happy Place And she was saying She basically, in the build-up to her having this wild surgery, she had stopped having thoughts.

Yes, she was completely present. So wild. So she didn't think that something was wrong. She just was living in this kind of state of like serenity in an odd way because I guess the tumour was pushing against the part. So after she had the surgery, one of the things she had to relearn how to engage with her thoughts. It's just so wild. She had to sit and she was going, what's that noise? That's what she was saying.

She was going like, what's that noise my head? She was having thoughts again. Wouldn't it be interesting if you could go through what Davina went through and then find a way to home your thoughts as they came back to only be positive ones. I mean, she obviously, like, I don't have to tell you, but for those who are wondering what Devin is like in real life, she is literally, like, completely the same. She's like a spring chicken.

It's wild. She's so outwardly loving. It's really quite something. And shout out her partner, Michael, as well, legend. Yeah. Their love is really is quite a special. special love. So in Devena style, there's only one way we can do the next voice note. Fancy another one. Hey Keats, hey Jordi, Zanti Sandra here. On the subject of change, my feelings are

largely positive. And although I know that change can be instigated by difficult, challenging and often heartbreaking events, I still feel in the main it's one of the most beneficial and positive aspects of our lives. For me, a lot of change has been initiated. initiated by geographical moves. I move from a small village to a city for college, then to London, then briefly to the States, then to Japan and back to London, and then more recently back to Scotland. So I've moved a lot, but with each move, I've been presented with an opportunity to take stock and recalibrate, to learn from past mistakes, throw out old habits, adapt new ones, and generally redraw my way forward. For that reason, I'm

I think change can be an inspiring, re-energizing and inspirational part of life. So, my question for you guys is, what one aspect of your life do you think has brought about the most change personally for you? Love you both. Love the podcast. See you soon. Bye. She really does love the podcast, Sandra.

That is one person that you can't say you don't call Auntie Sandra. I call her Auntie Sandra. Okay, thank God. Who did I say? Don't call an auntie. Well, you just come for me when I call everyone auntie and uncle. No. When you call me cousin.

You are my fucking cousin. Oh my God, Makita. I know, but people think I'm actually your cousin. But sorry that I love you like a cousin. Sorry, I just love you, Sam. Mutual. She has moved a lot and it has changed her life. Me too.

Every time I move house, I know it's the end of a chapter. I close doors. I kiss walls. I really think about what has happened. in these rooms since I've been in them because a house really can just be a house. But that's why when I move places Jordan, I call like the little balcony like moon bar

or like Palace of Dreams, which is what we call the new flat, because it could just be a load of rooms, but it's not. They become your life, these flats, these homes. And I'm really aware of that. So I think that my geographical moves around London and the 20 flats I've lived in

have always represented the eras of my life. And when change was afoot. sobriety for me. Obviously my sobriety is quite specific though. It is a personal sobriety because there's some things that I'll be willing to engage in casually now because I don't feel as destructive to me. Really interesting. So there's some things you think you could introduce back into your life that wouldn't take you to the underworld. Yes. In my opinion, but I think for me I just think my life has just changed like it's just completely shifted. Could you tell me one of the best things that sobriety's brought to your life? It's difficult to know how much of

this I can put solely on sobriety because listen, I do really believe that people can drink casually and I to be honest think I could probably drink casually now but removing that like first step for me like such a clear gateway to destruction for many many people to remove that from my life it just provided space to then fill with what has now become hugely important parts of my lived existence so cultivating stronger friendships obviously now I've been in a much better place to have a mature relationship like all of these things I owe to not having that outlet to just harm myself when I was feeling unstable. That's what I mean.

And I'm an extreme person, so I needed that. This isn't the case for everyone. That's a nice way of putting it. It feels like it's, it feels like you're laying a new foundation for new shit. It was afterwards, really. The nights would be fun, but it was just after, man.

I'm just like cancelling out three or four days while my body's like trying to rebalance itself, you know. Well, actually, this is a good time to talk about it because a lot of people do dry jam for this very reason. Well done to everyone that's doing dry january. Well done. Let's have another question. Which blah?

Who's round the court? I'll do Flewela Benjamin play school. Who's through the next shape? I don't know what you're talking about. Next question, please. Hi, Makita and Jordan. It's Harris from London. My question is, what is the difference between genuine need for change

and feelings of restlessness? Like, how do you distinguish the difference between those two feelings? I often get this sense that I need to change stuff or I get impatient, I get bored easily, I get very restless. I'm always trying to do a lot at the same time. I'm always trying to move on to something or change something. Sometimes it feels unnecessary and people around me tell me to just calm down. But also, what is the difference between that and legitimate need for change?

You know, like how do you distinguish the two? Does that make sense? Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, shout out to you both. Love the podcast. Specific shout out to Makita's 2010 era swag, T4, Pop World. Yeah, big fans. Bye.

Appreciate you both. Yes. No, I'm actually having no. Shout out, man, like Harris Dickinson, man. Okay. The thing that's fittest about Harris Dickinson is his voice, so I could not handle that. Keith's, you're all right. And also saying my name.

Well, Rose, Harris, let's say his girlfriend's name right now. Thank you so much. Both of them are the dope year, by the way. Shout out to that couple, for real, for real. What a year for them. You know what he's doing whilst recording that message? Beals film. Just to confirm, not only is Harris in the Beatles movie, he is playing John Lennon.

Yeah, man. Miss me. Check out. Wow! And like, I can't believe Harris Dickinson watch Pop World. Oh my God. How does the need to change show up? And is it always restlessness?

Well, I don't know for, well, it's extra tricky. That's restless in this fuckers. That's quite hard because I'm often restless. But for me, it's, I've told you I've been doing this 10-day meditation, which is all about instinct and the difference between instinct and imagination. And instinct is something that Oprah goes back to, which is when you turn everything off, which we all find very hard, but when you can get to a place of quiet,

where you're meant to go next, i.e. the change you want to implement is usually quite loud. Can start with a whisper, but if you don't listen to that whisper, you know when something's just niggling at you. Maybe I should stop drinking. Maybe I should. Actually, I really should stop drinking. Whisper, whisper.

And then something fucking awful happens. And that's being punched in the face by the universe. It's like, I told you to listen. And I think it's really important to just try and listen for the whisper before you get punched in the face. And then suddenly you're changing because everything's falling in part. But I mean, also it doesn't have to be that deep. My racket sports.

I was like, if I keep talking about how much I want to play tennis, I'm going to drive myself mad. Now I just consistently play racquet sports twice a week. And it was change that I wanted and it's changing other parts in my life. That's a really good way to put it actually is I don't think the issue is necessarily feeling momentarily restless. It's, I guess, noticing a pattern of restlessness. I think that's probably the most balanced answer is that if I was to go to a space or engage with a thing again and again and every single time, I felt, uncomfortable or I felt like I needed to be somewhere else, then obviously I'd have to listen to that pattern. Like for example, if we're just to briefly mention a sobriety, most of the reason why

I knew I had to make that choice was because I had obviously had so much data from my life. The root cause of so many issues was me drinking when I was sad. So I was like, well, if I stop drinking, then I can approach the sadness. So I guess it's like if there's like a particular untended to like desire, I guess, whether that's like creative or otherwise. And that's all you can kind of think about, then I would probably think maybe we should, or you should or I should start making shifts and changes to make sure that that desire can be actualised. This year I am going to work more than I've ever worked in my life. But I can hear the whisper and it might be a whisper so that I take a year off next year

or the year after. The whisper can start early. I said that. I said I want to do a gap year next year and then like about three weeks in, I had about 17 plans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. God laughs for your plans. Harris Dickinson, how the hell do we top this? Let's go to our Graham with his results. You remember Blind Date? I fucking did Buzzcox of Silla Black. There you go then.

Boom. Let's go to our Graham with a quick recap. That's what he said. Let's go to our Graham with a quick recap stroke question from another person that we love very much. Ah, Graham. So you do know. Hi, Keats and Jordan. Loving the show, by the way.

It's Emma here. In 2015, I woke up with an epiphany and decided to pack all my bags and drive across Europe from London to France on the Euro star, through to Switzerland, onto Milan, Sicily, to Malta, to end up in Gozo, a little island of Malta. for me that was very much to do with change when I was asked by my beloved son what exactly was that that was my response to going through the menopause so my question to both of you is would you consider the menopause to be equal to a midlife crisis because I don't I think a midlife crisis is something that lots of people go through most people go through in one way or another but the menopause is very much. One more sort of difficult hormonal change and quite a huge loss and grief to women. I know I felt that loss and grief. Just acknowledging that I was no longer able to have another child,

even if I wanted to, was hugely heartbreaking for me. Thank you very much for listening to my question. Who got my mum then? Me? Duh. You went family. I went like, you know. I know. I love what you did for me, but I gave you your mum. You gave me my mum. I feel like I'm sure I said this. What, you were relating menopause to the middle-life crisis? Didn't we speak about perimenopause or menopause or both?

Maybe a little bit, but I think we should definitely do it more. Thanks, Auntie M reminding me there's so much to, weirdly so much to look forward to with menopause. How old are you when I asked you that? 23, 24, I have one of those three, I can't remember, but I distinctly remember my mum disappearing to a Maltese island because I... I never went there. I never visited her. I never saw her.

She was gone for a year, at least. Oh, right, but you were a pop star on on the road and shit? Yeah. Wow. It's very Emma, though. I'm not that surprised that she was like, fuck this, I'm just going to go travel around Europe. It's interesting that she's saying,

you know, I definitely, especially at the time, I was pretty confident it was a midlife crisis, but I think for her to frame it as her kind of coming to terms with the grief of, you know, no longer being able to have children and stuff. I mean, you know, when you frame it like that, I think that's obviously. obviously anchors it, again, a little more. I didn't deep it like that.

Yeah, it must be quite hard to be a son in their 20s with their mother going through menopause that you probably knew even less about it than I would have. I definitely wasn't sure what was going on. I definitely wasn't. I remember her getting hot flushes a lot, you know, and stuff like that. But there was so much kind of comedy around things like a hot flush, like a woman being like, and my mom was like, you don't get it.

It's like feeling like you're suffocating. And I was like, this is horrible. Really what we're talking about is like gaining more knowledge of something to be more supportive of it. And if I had known more, I would have been better with my mum. A lot of like, I'm not understanding, a lot of lack of empathy from me and Gar for a long time. I was just like, why is she so moody? She was like, I'm so sorry, I hate both of you in a way. I've never hated you before.

That wasn't my mom. She loves me so much. But it was like, she was taking these hormones and just losing her mind. Let's talk about menopause more because more knowledge helps. people support other people. I think to answer my mum's question, she was kind of insinuating that there's like an extra level of like quite literal grief involved in it rather than,

so maybe she's even suggesting that you can have both, which is, I guess, quite a daunting concept for women. Oh, God. You could have, but like imagine just getting over menopause and being like, oh, actually, I also want to... I think on my 41st birthday, I did have a bit of a midlife crisis and I thought I'd have it at 40. But thank you on TM for taking us there.

Let's talk about these people that have come to help us all usher in the new year. Devena McCall, Harris Dickinson, Aunties Sandra and your mom. Let's see who's next. Yes. So, you're both people who grew up in a household where things changed all the time, possibly a bit too often, maybe I'm thinking. And I'm wondering how you both think that has affected you,

your adult life, Akita, and you, your husband for the food in the long run or not love you go you need to buy Andy a new phone because this is a fucking joke she can't be running around flexing with the newfound she just got a new phone if she gets some new headphones or something because I don't know what do you know what when I was a kid my mum had a weird thing like she's got too much static energy running through her body that every video machine that would come into the house would break even new ones

to the point where we had seven video machines piled up. So, like, even though that phone's new, her weird... She's creating such a vivid, electromagnetic field that she's distorted the voice night. Are you really making this claim? I'm like, there's no other way it would sound that bad, but it's my mum using it, so, of course, it's a techie thing, so there's always a bit of, like, a fizz.

Wow. Like, she breaks TVs, if she touches remotes and stuff. She breaks... Your mom's a superhero. Is I what you're trying to say? She's like... Yeah, she's like a superhero. Fantastic.

It's good to know. Anyway. I think, like, the fact that we both got famous young speaks for itself. Give me attention. Yeah, sure. Yeah, 16 and 19 respectively. Fucking hell. Why do you think, what do you mean?

What do you mean? I mean, but what do you explain? We can adore our parents, our parent, whatever it is. But, like, when a family or a parent is forced to survive, rather than thrive or have, you know, the time and energy and capacity to be able to sometimes fulfill multiple roles. It comes at a cost and it's completely unfair. It's genuinely unfair and unjust.

But it's just the reality of, you know, that kind of pressure does to a person. So you and I going into like an adult work environment when we were teenagers with a lot of pressure, do you think that was us trying to like adult ourselves as soon as we could? No, no, well, I don't know what it was for you, but for me, I adopted in my teens this like fierce tunnel vision, like actually delusional tunnel vision as a teenager because I was like, I'm going to get me in my mum out of this situation. Nothing would stop me from doing that. But then, for example, I remember seeing a tweet in my mid-20s and someone said, do you know there's some people out there who don't dream of buying their mama house? And I was like, that's mental to me.

I'd not even considered the fact that it's a possibility to not dedicate your life to trying to pull you and your family out. out of a situation. It's escapism. And to dreaming. Like, there's a lot of fantasy within surviving. I had this picture. I was thinking about this the other day

because it's actually quite like my flat. I had this picture that I'd pulled out of some weird magazine that I'd found somewhere, which was like the estate agent bit, and it was like a penthouse in Mayfair. And I was like, I'm going to get that house

and me and my mum and Garth because if we get that, then we'll be fine, ridiculous. And I was like, maybe we could get through the lottery and I was like, no, I don't want to win the lottery, I want to work and make enough money to get it.

I don't have that penthouse. but I have a beautiful home. So do my parents, and we did work really hard to change our existence and prosperity and position in the world. So that's what I mean. I don't think they're just daydreams. I still daydream now and then I make that shit happen. How do you mean?

Well, I just think the dreaming... Is it a good thing? Yeah, but also it's not just a dream. It's like if you've got intent to manifest it and to tell it into something real, it's quite important. A lot of people have been through incredibly much harder situations than we've been in. and come out as, you know, grounded, loving people. And that's a fucking incredible reflection on the human spirit.

It's just I've read a lot about, like, child development and what happens when our brains are still growing, like it's nought to three, three to seven, these two massive chunks of time that in an ideal world would be based around just the presence of people around you and focus and attention and just the reality of people living in a system

that will crush you if you don't pay attention enough. That's the compromise. That's a sacrifice. So you end up that child more often than not will end up remedying that first three years or first seven years for like 20 to 30 years. It's a lot of time. Okay, so I'm thinking we should go to a break. All right, we're back from a break. Hello. Welcome to Miss, welcome back to Miss Me. Let's have another friend of the family. What is the best way to change somebody's opinion on a big picture issue like politics or economics? Gary Stevenson, who actually, I think your mum likes.

Yeah. Do you know Gary Stevenson? Are you a fan of his? I like him a lot, actually. Is he the one that talked about me in and into you? Did we get that through? Maybe. You did mention that and I didn't ask him, which is funny.

Yeah, okay. Well, we'll just go with maybe. We'll just go with maybe he loves me. How do you change someone's opinion on something political? Is there like a particular technique or like, is there a method? I'd go back to what I learned in 2025 for Mr. Obama. You have to make space for the other point of view and then come at it with softness and understanding

because it frees you both. I'm half there. I don't think it has to be soft. One of the most challenging aspects of being a human is being able to remind yourself of the humanity and someone who despise. Like, that is really hard. Phoebe used to do this exercise with me where you have to see the person on a stage

being told that they're brilliant and wonderful and having flowers thrown at them and be happy for them. Be like, good for you. It's good for you. Yeah. Visualisation's powerful. It's really challenging because you either have to make a decision that you believe in humanity or not,

like you're a humanist or you're not. And if you do take the line of humanist, then you are obliged to understand how somebody could be in your opinion, contorted by a different view. I was just going to say, I think when I started looking more into the literature and the history of the enslavement of African people, I started to understand more that true evil usually comes from great fear of power, of someone else. It changed things for me.

It shifted. It was like it's not because they think we're weak. It's because they know we're strong. 100%. Yes. And especially now, looking back, it's really, really difficult to conceive that level of exploitation. We do also, though, live in a space now where we are, to an extent, willing to overlook even our own part in it now. Yeah.

Talking about new phones, laptops, whatever we're using. Like, we're complicit in this shit now. I'm not saying it excuses that, but I'm saying that that even if we consider ourselves to be like good people or whatever, there's a certain element of blinkers that we put. on at certain times. It's very hard. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. It's just like... No, it's okay. Even Obama said that. Don't worry. Listen, we've got different views on Obama. I understand that you met the guy. Obviously, I have some... There's some problematic history within Obama's brain. Anyway, let's move on. For God's sake, would you please ask for another question?

Next question. Waguan, Jordan. It's Kane. For the listeners, I'm one of Jordan's oldest, wisest and best-looking friends he'll attest to that i've also had the displeasure of knowing keats all my life jordan you are like a brother to me i've witnessed your many evolutions firsthand i want to take this opportunity to tell you and the rest of the world how proud i am of the person you've become keeps you're doing all right too i guess i want you to interrogate something for me i have over the past like five to ten years come to believe that as hard as it might be we need to reframe trauma as a gift that we can only be grateful for the crap that life throws at us that any pain and struggle we face

are actually nutrients for the soil of our soul, an opportunity to grow and learn and confront who we are and who we want to be. But my question is, do you think that this perspective is one of privilege? Or do you think that it is true? That pain is indeed a catalyst for growth and a life without it would lack meaning. Let me know. Wow. God, he's so smart, isn't he, Kane? Shout out Kane.

My fucking brother, what a beautiful sentiment and question and perspective. And just for the audience, that's Aunt Sandra's son, Kane. My oldest friend, I've known him my whole life. Oh, is he like your Lily? Yeah, I guess so. What, did you know Lily from birth? Oh, yeah, you did? Yes.

Of course, Sos. Kane's saying that we should reframe trauma as a potential gift and doorway to growth. Oh, we're on the same page then. I've got a friend called Isha. She calls it post-traumatic growth. And I know everyone throws around the term like it's a spectrum or whatever, but like you said, there's obviously going to be some element of extremity of traumatic experience, which I wouldn't wish on people at all.

You know, it can break you, it can make you. Like that is one of the toughest and kind of immoral, chaotic aspects of life. It's completely unfair and random. You know, there's people who have done nothing but good from what we generally understand as good. in the world and just lost their lives, like just had them just been taken away. Like, there's no justification, there's no whatever you can't. There's people who have been fucking appalling as human beings and lived.

But I do believe that that does take damage on the soul anyway. Like, I think everybody backfires. But he makes a good point that, for me, that is unequivocal. Pain is gross. Absolutely. I mean, Lily Allen is a huge prime example sitting in our faces right now because not everyone has the privilege of the life Lily was living. very few people, but she still went through something

and she had the privilege, as it were, to use what she has to make a body of work. But she also through that body of work, I hope, has shown people that life's really not about running from pain, but it's about what we do with the inevitable pain that will come through our door. 100% finding that balance between processing the pain,

allowing the pain to motivate you, but then very importantly, we can't identify with the pain. that's maybe where Kane is coming from, but I do think some people will go for a trauma and then that is them. Do you what I'm saying? Like that, from that point onwards. But there's such a decision, isn't it? Our personalities are essentially just stories that we have told ourselves and I know that at any point we could just change our minds if we wanted to. That's what's so mad, like we actually could. If we just told ourselves a different story enough times, the neuron

in your brain would literally just go, the pathway would flick. But then also, it's easy to change your mind when you are actively searching for the truth about yourself again. Like, the truth is really good. There was a great one. Let's just end this question with this one. Always remember that the boat of truth may rock, but it can never sink. That's the idea of, like, changing your thoughts. It's like, the negative ones are the lies quite often.

Facts. The truth is good shit. Let's have another auntie or uncle or famous friend or just a lowly, normal friend. I don't know if it's because I'm older now and have I turned into one of those old people that doesn't like change or is it because I'm happy and settled and peaceful in my life

because I used to love change of all kinds. In fact, a change is as good as a rest as I get older, I'm not sure if it's because I'm an old person now but I feel like a 33-year-old so I don't know. I love that. I thought it was my best.

Mel Black, it was Thameson Hathaway. It's a type of Mel. Tamson's a legend and she is, again, if you spend time with Tamsin, just got this fucking youthful fucking spark, like she's just buzzing and she was a massive reason why I managed to survive my first kind of theatre experience. So basically, big shout to Tamsin generally. Thank you, Tamsin, Athwa. I think generally speaking, she's right.

I think people become less equipped or open to change as they get older. Yeah, you get more scared. of it, but I'm not. I mean, maybe in my 60s, but right now, I know it's the one because it always makes everything better. What change does? Yeah. I love change, but to, maybe to a fault, like I actually struggle to not to change things. Do you know what I'm saying? I've changed career like 78 times. Yes, there is that, but I think that's our restlessness. But do you, like, even just with where you live now, do you get antsy about like wanting to go back and be in Margate and be in another house and another home?

Um, no. You're quite settled. Do you know what it is, man? I'm just like, I think in regards to that, I'm just definitely a nomad. I feel so blessed to be in this house. But yeah, no, I just like, I was saying this last night, you know, like I went to Belgium at the end of last year and it was for a few days. But I just always think at the time I could live out of a suitcase.

I really could. This is the closest I've had to feeling home, actually, to be fair, Jade and the dogs in the house. Yeah. That's new for me to feel that's kind of. security, but there's still this little, this is why I'm wondering whether or not it's healthy. I can't figure out if it's healthy or it's fearful. You know, like we have just heard my mum say she disappeared to an island off Malta. So I don't know whether this is like there's some kind of... Instilled somewhat the nomadic spirit within. Yeah, just this thing of

like I need to run away. But I do feel that. I do feel like I need to. I also just have this over, again, just if we're speaking pure about location, I have a perpetual existential crisis thinking that there are things and places and people that I've not seen. So you know what happens when you get a bit older? You suddenly have to go, oh, I might not see everything. Yes, I know, because I have other responsibilities like kids and shit or something like that. Yeah, but just also time. That's been a weird acceptance for me.

Like, oh, I might never go to Alaska. What? But it might not. Like, I saw a video the other day of Canada. I've never been to Canada. I can't get my head around. There are places that you haven't seen. This is amazing. It really affects you. My friend's friend just came back from Senegal. I want to see that statue so badly in

the car or whatever. The massive one. Yes. I want to go to Senegal. I want to go to fucking Zambia. I want to go to like Cameroon. I want to go to Ethiopia. I want to go to India. I'm obsessing at the moment about like doing a fight camp in Thailand. Okay. I think this is your whisper of change. You've asked, you've said, This year it can't happen, but now it's coming. Do you get what I'm saying? Like, you're only 33, maybe 34, 35. All right, 2027 is my fucking gap year.

That's it, gap year time. Look, this is the whisper. You're ready. You're telling us your itinery. Let's do like last question. Let's do the final question. Hi, Keats. Rizler, it's Josh, but as you both seem to call me, Joshy.

Anyway, happy New Year's guys. I know you're talking about change today, and I get that's because of the new year. I've just gone through a massive lifestyle change due to health and stop smoking after like 10 to 12 years. And it's been easy to a point. But as time goes on, I realise it isn't just for a period. It's for forever, which I guess I find quite daunting. How do you feel about change for the foreseeable future, whether it's a loss or circumstances or a job? How do you handle it? And Jordan, I want a real answer, please. Nothing that involves being healthy or training four times a week. Okay, love you both. Bye. I want something from your soul,

Joshie, well done. Congratulations on quitting smoking. It's really hard. I haven't been able to do it. I'm really proud of him. Day to day, I would say. Day to day, I would say, is the only way. I mean, probably the scariest part of grief.

I was talking to someone who's lost someone recently, and it's somewhere that you can only dip into in like the sort of parts of grief you have. The forever one is unbelievably difficult. Yeah. That can be applied to quite a lot of things. It's forever. Day at a time.

Yeah. time's great advice. Grief, in my mind, it just, I always remember that it fades and flashes, that's the thing that I find fascinating about grief. I wrote like a whole piece on that actually because... Pades and flashes, oof. Because that's the thing that I especially say to my male friends because we don't end up with an intrinsic idea that pain can leave. I mean, this is actually why I think there's like a more of a mental health crisis of men because I think women understand because of the everyday interaction of pain that it goes, whereas I don't think men know that pain goes. When I had that heartbreak that I wrote a book about, I didn't know that it would go.

I felt like I would feel like that forever. So with something like a massive life change where everything is shifted, there's obviously a grief period where there'll be these flashes of like wanting to have back what you had before, you know, all the normal things that come with it. But then it fades. It does fade. And I think it's really difficult to remember that when you're in it. But it's a guarantee. I've got another friend who's going through a tough time. And that was the first thing I said just because, and I even pre-curseded it by being like, I know you don't want to hear this. Because I remember someone saying it to me.

I know you don't want to hear this. You're not going to process it right now, but just have it in your brain that this will fade. It will fade. And actually, I will say, I would quite like to add to Myerangelo. I think it's called When Great Trees Fall. This is really good for grief. Oh, and when Great Souls die after a period, peace blooms slowly and always irregularly. Space is filled with a kind of soothing electric vibration.

Our senses restored never to be the same whisper to us. They existed. They existed. We can be, be and be better for they existed. Forever energy. That is the forever energy. And I think that's maybe how, what a good thing for Joshy is. I know we're talking about fucking smoking.

But this idea of forever is both painful and our comfort. because forever will they live on people that we lose. Yes, forever you're going to not be smoking cigarettes, but it's like life is long, other things will come. Like, it's kind of all part of the foreverness. It's not like, oh God, I've got this whole life without smoking. It's like, you've got a whole life. You've got a whole life to go live.

Go live it, Joshy. It's the same thing, isn't it? It's like, I don't know if enough I'm attributing it to the right culture, but I feel like it's an ancient Chinese proverb, which is basically, in short, that losing and having is kind of the same thing. They believe that if you lose an item, that item is sacrificing itself to save you in a way that you can't comprehend. So, for example, you know, like if you might lose your favorite necklace and it's

really sentimental and you're gutted and whatever else, like if you can make peace with that, you're engaging with the reality of how your life would have been different if it was still there, if that makes sense. And you can think of extreme examples, you know what I mean? Like maybe your fucking necklace gets caught on something and then you get, you know, it literally saves your life or, you know. I have it. The flat, if you didn't send me that letter through my door

that terrified me to my very core, I would have just stayed there in danger and something could have happened. Yeah. It's all an angel. So you have to consider like your life path that's been altered in a way that will be of some benefit. It's just sometimes it's tough to take that in at the time. Ah!

And that's how we finish. Great. I want to just say to everyone, Happy Bloody New Year. Makita, should we do the next listen bitch as Risk? Yeah. Yes, I knew you'd like that. Love.

Okay, all right. Wicked. Well, there we are. Next listen bitch, folks. Is Risk. Send your questions on Risk to, what is it? Oh, 8,030, 40, 90. Oh, 8,030, 40, 90.

Risk. I love it. And I do love risk. I'm a risky bitch. And that's what we'll call the episode. All right, Keats, happy new year. Lots of love. Love you loads. Happy new year. Bye. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persefonica production for BBC Sounds. I'm Joe Marla, traitor-hunter, reader of minds and completely unqualified. Have you ever wanted to get deep into the heads of celebrities? Ever wanted to see some totally unregulated psychological testing in action? Welcome to my office, where I'll be making famous people uncomfortable in the name of science and light entertainment. Joe Marla will see you now.

That's me, Joe Marla. I'll see you now. Listen now on BBC Sounds.