Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! Heated Rivalry

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens answer your questions about frenemies.Next week, we want to hear your questions about PLANTS. Please send us a voice note on WhatsApp: [phone]. Or, if you like, send us an email: [e-mail] episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. It's the Oscars on Sunday, and while American movies have long been America's great cultural export, the Academy Awards are increasingly nominating international films, not made in America. I'm Asma Khalid, one of the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. How did Hollywood's biggest night become so international? Listen to The Global Story on BBC.com. or wherever you get your podcasts. This week's episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes, two dogs,

and a professor named Jordan who blew my tiny little mind today. To listen, bitch. Today we're doing frenemies. And I thought that frenemies started on a TV show I like called Sex in the City because that's the first time I heard the word frenemies. But actually, it originated in the late 19th century. So I quite like that it's a very obvious. old word and it was a gossip columnist called Walter Winchell.

In the 1950s, a frenemy was to describe tense, competitive or hypercritical relationships. So I feel like actually this kind of relationship between people has been going on for a long time and it was coined a while ago. So hopefully there's quite a lot of like historical feelings in this idea of being in a twisted relationship to someone. It's full of competitiveness. Full of competitiveness. Yeah, I think there is a rivalry in the idea of frenemies.

Yeah, but how's it different to a nemesis? Because a nemesis you're not polite to, yes. You're closer to them, but you're competing silently. A frenemy you might even follow on Instagram. I think before we get a quick, before we have a question, we have to ask you if you have one or multiple. Many. You have many frenemies?

Seriously. No, I used to, but I've dropped quite a lot of them, and we'll get into that. Oh, will we? I'm trying to think about which I'm going to talk about. Hello. me. I have just listened to your latest episode while walking to school and school running. John, listening to you wind up me heater, it brings me some of joy. Keith, I don't want you to be wound up, obviously.

But it's given lily pipes. Jordan, you're giving lily vibes. Right, Chrissy from Dorset, frenemies. I'm the space to spade kind of person. People just spend so much of their energy, trying to friend people that you don't need to. Don't like each other. That's how it's happened. Just don't talk to each other and move on.

You're like, yeah, but it makes you look like the bad person. No, it doesn't. Makes it like an honest person. The question is, you had someone that you talk to you, but you're not their friend, and they're a friend of me, and you pointlessly talk to them and try and keep things going for literally no reason. Or are you, like me, a bit of a spade-and-slave kind of person, and without friends, you don't need to continue.

Take care, bye. Sorry, I need to deep that. She said, do you have a... friend who's not your friend that what they think they're your friend yeah basically do you nurture your friend of me relationships or do you cut them off oh the thing about a friend of me relationship is it does need to be nurtured because the word friend is in it it's not it's not an enemy it's someone that you i guess keep at arm's length and probably like keep an eye on uh because of said rivalry i think that that's what i mean a friend of me you do have a

connection with them for some reason. It's not just like, that bitch has nice hair and I'll be nice to her, but I'm a bit jealous of her. It's usually because you're connected for some reason. Maybe you went out with the same person in the past or something, or maybe like two of your friends had a fight. You shouldn't really like each other. That's interesting of the dating. That helps me understand more.

Yes. That's caused me issues in the past. What do you mean? Just for context, I've been struggling since we started recording to understand what a is actually even since you suggested it as a listen bitch I'm like I have one person who I think it applies to I didn't think they were a friend of me but I can only deduce from things they've said to me that they think I am. The one-sided friend of me relationship and it made me feel really weird because I was like what like I just had no yeah no this is important you can you can be someone's

Renamee without knowing. I feel like I've been on that side of it more. I have enemies for fun. Like, enemies are good, but frenemies spin me out because I'm like, I obviously don't fuck with you, but I had one situation where, I have to be so careful about how I'll say this. I had one situation.

Me too on this episode. We were discussing working with each other in some capacity. We were not naming names. We were discussing working with each other and I like made a suggestion. And then they were like, oh, what you think I don't know that person?

I was like, what? And they were like, you're making it out like, you're the one with the links. I was like, bruh. Keith, it spun me out. I was like, wait, I thought we would collaborate. Like, I'm not trying to like, I'm not trying to like one up you in the collaboration. Ah, yes, the frenemy. Do you get what I'm saying?

The classic frenemy chat. Because I didn't even realize that that was like the level we were on. He basically said to what you think about me. He or she. Yeah. You are that person's frenemy. Well, you can gather from that vibe. It's probably a he.

that's not exactly she's probably going to be a bit more subtle than that but yeah exactly that's so flokey what you think I ain't got links

you didn't going on long people literally so fuck it's actually not just guys to do that to be fair but I personally haven't nurtured a relationship with somebody

so that I can compete with them because I find it uncomfortable being competitive with people I love other than in a fun way in a fun way yeah you can be like in competition

but you're not actually attached to any outcomes of it. It's just like motivating. Like if I hear, whenever I hear Jade sing, I'm like, wow, I wish I could sing like that. And I'm not like trying to sing like, try and sing like that. I'm not bothered if I can. Obviously I can't. You know what I'm saying?

But I think I've, my relationship with competitiveness is beginning to change just now, just beginning to change in my early 40s, which is, this is such a great spin on competitiveness. Instead of I had that you took it. And then I got it back. and you took it again, something like that, what you turn it into is,

in this life that we're both living, we have shared something, an experience or a person, we have shared that. And no matter what happens in our life, that's just part of both of our lives now. And I think that's a really good way of seeing confessing because when I was young,

it was like, that's mine, you took it, no, that's for me. And now I'm like, oh, you just, we both had it. And it's part of both of our lives. That's been a really good one for me. It's quell. a few things. Let's have another question

for this topic I shouldn't have ever brought up. Can I also just note, Mike, the beginning of that? What did I say? No, the question. Is she saying, I'm winding you up because of the Harry Starr's shit?

Yeah, and if she was saying that, gosh. I resent being compared to Lily with that because she would definitely have been on the other side of that and no, because I've been watching looking at the comments, brother. I wonder if Lily was here what she'd say. Are you joking me?

I know who you're watching Harry Stars with. I'm not a numpty. Oh, yeah. True saying. All right, next question. Hi, Makita. Hi, Jordan. It's Esme in South London.

Mid-store. So on topic of frenemies, I remember once when I had a little argy-bargy with my mate in the school playground and then I went home and told my mum about it. In my room, I had a picture of the person that I had a little fight with. The next day, I saw that it had been ripped

and it was just me in the frame. And basically my mum had ripped the photo and then put my mate in the bin. And every time I invited her around because I still wanted to be mates with her, my mum would act so cold and weird towards her. And it was all definitely friendly vibes. So yeah, I was just wondering

if you guys have got similar stories where the closest people around you act weird the next time a mate comes around after falling out. Take care. Bye. Oh my God. Wait. What's she saying? Our mom was back in the beef.

She fell out of her mate. Yeah. And her mom was like, fuck this girl. She's cut out of a photograph. And then she was like, oh, actually, I'm going to make sure again. And our mom was just like, nah. Oh, well, I don't know whether this is about phronomies. But if a girl tells you that they're breaking up their boyfriend and they hate them,

never agree with them. Sorry, if someone you laugh says, I'm breaking up this person, he's a dickhead, Don't be like, yeah, I've always know he's a dicker because they will be back to them next week. Yeah, you have to be very careful with the... You have to be... That happened. I literally, my best friend did that. I did it two weeks ago.

Two weeks ago, that happened to me. Yeah, he was like, so... He was like, so the stuff I said about her, don't worry. I was like, don't worry. I get it. I was like, I was sorry, I didn't mean to call him. But they're always right, by the way. Just right out of her. They're always right, just to say the friends, the parents,

that in those relationships, if they're a prick and they can see it. Actually, do you know, actually, do you know, what. I just realized that because she was talking about school, my, my relationship with friend of me wasn't as early as 1891, but it was primary school. And actually, it was one of the most defining relationships in my life. When I was going through some heartbreak with a boy, Phoebe Oliver made me write out a list of all the men that had like caused me wounds. And then she was like, now just right, the first person that caused you a wound. And it wasn't a man. It was, we can beat this.

Just call it. I love it. That is like that. That is. an enemy though that's not a friend of me. No, it was a friend of me because I, she basically taught me this idea of like, having to stay close to someone you hated because of the things you thought you needed, i.e. popularity. Oh, fascinating. Social climbing. Social climbing. I love that. Full of friend of me, social climbing, literally.

Primary school social climbing is no joke. Yeah, I didn't do that. I literally didn't do it. I was just a weird though. So the question is like, yeah, yeah, like, did my mum go too far? I don't even know if this is like relevant, but I have this proper memory. This just flashed back to me that my best mate when I was a teenager and I didn't have many, but one friend I used to hang out with, he was in like a really cool streak. Like he hit puberty early. So he got tall and everyone and he was like quite hard so he'd like fight people.

And then the girls liked him because he was like tall and fought people genuinely. Sorry to be reductive, but that was the vibe back then. And we got invited by his parents to like this literally once in a, I don't want to say it, I love, because I know what it is. But it was like a once-in-a-lifetime sporting event, basically, right? And he said to me, he wanted to go to the park to meet up with this girl, right? So I just went along with it. I literally just went along with it.

I wasn't even meeting anyone. I think I was a third wheel, right? And when we turned back up to his house, his dad went for me. Like, I was the person who had made this decision to not go to this fucking sporting event. No, in hindsight. I don't know if he had actually said it. Because they remember him defending me at the door. but then I think to myself

how did they conclude that it was my idea? Like I didn't have anything to do with that decision. How old are you like? Like 14. Right. Yeah, it was mental. But I remember now I wasn't welcome at this house, but it was fucked.

They did actually fuck shit off of it. It was just awkward when I went round. I think he's cool, but I'm also, for context and I'm sure people know this from the podcast, but I'm a Labrador, like, I just like run. I'll talk to anyone. I said that when I did an episode with Lily. It's like I'm like just wide open

And sometimes people just are like Alright I'm gonna fuck you over them That's a good time in that Yeah that was like a sort of hat off pain When you're this open you get hurt Let's have another question about frenemies Hello my name is Meryl And I'm currently living in Glasgow

But seem to be moving back down Closer to my family in the south I am moving back to the town I grew up in And it's bringing up a lot of mixed feelings good because I'll be close to the family, but equally I am definitely anxious about falling back in with the same crowds of frenemies that didn't necessarily bring all the love and joy and energy to my life before. What advice have you got for establishing boundaries, keeping your space positive when frenemies are all around, and maybe making new friends as well, and finding wherever you go, your people.

So let me start with Harry Stiles Oh fuck off No Come on I was going to say that I would say it's great for The idea of making new friends Is really important as we get older as well

Because it takes a bit of courage And it can be really rewarding And as Zowie Ashton said to me Follow the happy people Which always leads to new opportunities And I think that means people that make you feel good And experiences that make you feel a bit open and alive but I guess I have this with Labrott Grove

where I'm from in West London but it's not like I have a group of friends that are bad in any way it's just a bit like when you go back somewhere everyone reverts back to their old roles maybe I have this more with like the young yeah like me Lily Phoebe Jess

Gemma Clemmy like all the West Lauren all the West London group when we get back together we do fall into the roles whatever they may be and it might not be that healthy but I think that's part of it that's probably actually it's how people stay close to each other.

It's like, you're the funny one and you're the one that always does this and you do this, but it's probably not completely healthy. Yeah. Hopefully you've all grown a bit. In terms of boundaries, I've gone through like ups and downs

in terms of like my idea of whether time is enough of a reason to have a bond with a person because recently I've built two friendships and I felt so immediately connected to the, people because firstly they've met me as me now which is interesting because like you just identified sometimes you're almost tied to a version of yourself that doesn't exist anymore and secondly like one of these people is just has his ability to just see into my fucking soul somehow without

I don't know they're just some channelling some shit and I think like I am actually pro the idea of not being too tied into history because if if you if people grow apart as it is what it is I found this especially with going sober just for the record and this isn't to do necessarily to do with frenemies, but I made a choice in life that meant that my decisions were different to a lot of my friendship group. I was like, okay, cool, I'll lose them then. And then the people who have come back in a different form are the people I'm closest to now. And the people who got lost, got lost.

See, I hold people on pedestals for too long, Jordan. Yeah, I'm not down for that. I'm just like... Like, far too long. Yeah. Well, I was lucky, actually, my mum always installed in the people around me. I've never really idolized anybody. I don't really like...

Neither does my mom. I don't know what the fuck my problem is. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what your problem is. It's probably that attachment stuff you talked about last week. Yeah, like that would play into it. I have been met with this quite a lot in the last few weeks, which is I'm so scared of losing people that I don't stand up for myself.

Yeah, I agree with that. In friendships. I think so. Which is maybe why I stormed out here a minute ago when you were getting on my nose. Yeah, no, but that's fine. What do you mean that's maybe why you stormed out? Because I get in this place of like feeling like I can't stand up from myself. So you, alright, can I hear that?

So I panic. So my... So me and Jordan had a little tip, a little tip. Which is normal. Which is normal, by the way. You started this record. It's normal, but not when you got a franchise on your shoulders. But what I will say is another important thing in terms of boundaries.

No, no, no. But listen, this is real shit. Because I care about this bit a lot, actually. Is that the best thing about boundaries that I learn and that I advocate for are that it reveals the truth of a relationship, whether that's friendship, whether that's romantic, whether that's familial, like whatever relationship, right? If you say no and that person doesn't meet your no with understanding,

they're using you. That's my opinion. Okay, I literally, this is such a therapy for two situations in my life right now. I can't believe it. And I said to someone yesterday, I said, I don't say no enough. Someone, my therapist, I said, I don't say no enough. So can I, can, God.

It's interesting because maybe a friend of me, means a lot of the time people for example would suggest that let's say say like with me and harley right there's two of us two guys a lot of people would say like was it ever tense was there of whatever and there's definitely going to be some sense of competition that we might feel like individually or whatever but one thing i'll never forget from harley which taught me a lot about boundaries right and about like what is the actual route of our relationship there was one time where he wanted to shoot a video and I offered my house, right, just impulsively because I wanted to be helpful, right? Because that's like my thing, people pleaseer, but equally I love Harley and whatever.

And then I realized after saying yes that not only was it completely impractical, but like I hadn't, there was so many moving factors and it was just like a ridiculous idea. And so I was shitting myself about the fact that I had to not say yes. I had to like change my mind. And because previously there would have been situations perhaps with people I haven't identified I just friend of me's where you'll say the thing and they're like, what? And then there's an issue and then there, da-da-da-da-da. And then it's an issue and you fuck someone over

and then it's my... But like, with Harley, I was like, bro, I'm really sorry, man. I said yes because I wanted to help. But actually, I think about it and I can't do it. And he was like, that's fine. I know, stop. He was literally just like... I totally get it.

Like, and he had to objectively do more work. But the point was, it was just a normal situation where like, there's a thing and there might not be a thing. His interest isn't in like using my shit. No, and our fear of the no is usually, I think maybe probably 90% of the time is within us. People aren't that shocked when you say no.

Because some people do leave, but they have to go. They have to go. Yeah. That's the scary bit. Sometimes they reveal themselves and you're like, fuck, that sucks. Oh, no, I'm scared now. That's what it means. Like, literally, you know, like if...

What was that sentence? No reveals the truth of the relationship. Listen, in my opinion, I have to obviously precursor this. This is, I was dealing at some point in my life with codependency, right? And this is a big part of it, is boundaries. You know, regardless, like, you know, you're dominant or you're submissive. If you're in a submissive position, ultimately you aren't laying the boundaries clear enough. Again, this is, in my opinion.

And so there is some part to play, even if someone's dominating you, right? Because you need to be fucking clear. And if you are clear, then there is no confusion as to whether what someone's attentions are. That's what it is. And people who love you for you. Yeah, yeah. And what people, and that's the thing, people. We'll just change, we'll just shift.

They're not trying to get a thing from you. But that's great because that's literally like the route to nurturing, the realist, you know, soul feeding relationships you can have in your life. I just think people would rather the lie sometimes because they don't want to lose people. I know I do. I'm so afraid of people leave abandoning me that still to this day, if I say something that I think is vulnerable or might come at someone I love's expense or whatever,

and they meet it with like, I understand, because I understand you, it literally takes me hours to even believe it. Still, and I've done years of therapy. And it still scares me that someone is okay with me revealing that like I might have made a mistake or that I'm, you know. Yeah. Or no. Yeah, that person's going, oh, that's a lot. But, you know, I love you.

But whatever. It's kind of beautiful. Well, it's beautiful to understand it, but it's still there. And I've done shit on the therapy. Yes. That was, I think we're done. That was good. That's just solved a lot of shit for me.

All right, let's have a break from all this frenemy-based tension. Yeah. It's the Oscars on Sunday. And while American movies have long been America's great cultural export, the Academy Awards are increasingly nominating international films, not made in America. I'm Asma Khalid, one of the hosts of the Global Story Podcast from the BBC. How did Hollywood's biggest night become?

so international. Listen to the global story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back. Welcome back. Welcome back to this safe space where we're discussing the slightly dangerous topic of frenemies. There is no safe space. No, not in the frenemy land. Let's have another question.

See if it gets us somewhere even close to how profound we just got. Good morning, Jordan and Makita from Misty, South London. However, I'm originally from Eastbourne. Thanks for the honourable mention, Jordan. I had completely forgotten about the Olympic torch thing, but I definitely know there is a picture somewhere of you and my sibling. My question about frenemies is just like, what the fuck is that about? I feel like I for sure have an unwavering level of support,

appreciation for my friends and their endeavours, and I've been told this by my friends. But I have a few people in my life that I absolutely love. that just cannot seem to be happy for people's endeavours. They just, there seems to be a level of jealousy and inability to be completely happy for them. Anyway, so my question is kind of like, can you delve Dilipa into why you think this occurs and your frenemies, obviously they aren't your enemies, but why that kind of friendship jealousy for the things that people are doing around you comes in?

Oh, God. Did I tell you that at the Brits I lied that I liked someone It killed my fucking soul man I did tell you didn't it was like kicking a puppy bro I just couldn't do it So you said to someone's face I like you I respect you Honestly like I said I had to hit the whole sage ritual

I had to repent for my sins but I like In that moment because That's very unlike you He literally was so out of character Because it was such an image Like I had half a second to decide And I felt shit about it But it was but it's the nature of the beast

It was a nature of like, I was actually trying to deal with a compliment, weirdly. And so I like flipped. Yeah, no, that makes sense. If someone's being kind to me, I might not agree. How do I take that one way? Just go like. Yeah, no, that's like someone saying I love you and not saying it back. It's like, okay, so you don't love me back.

Right. But I mean, obviously, yeah. Yeah. Why did I say that? Not as in time. Yeah, it's, I think like there's a dissociating feeling I found if I'm talking to talk about the entertainment industry where you're just trying to like just be drama-free. you know, because...

That's why I would say, be careful with who you follow on Instagram. I don't think it's very healthy to follow frenemies on Instagram because... Why would you do that? Should it really be... Yeah, well...

What people you're competing with? You need to be seen that you're following them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it, I get it. It's a politics team. It's a politics team. It's a politics thing. So you can't just be like, I don't follow you.

It's like, wait, so do we not like each other? It's like, of course we do. Yeah, I don't believe in Instagram. What do you mean you don't believe in? I don't believe in the following thing. Yeah, it just doesn't. because I've thought that in the absence of being followed, I've assumed someone hates me.

And then I've just seen them in real life. And actually I text them. Ring them like a normal human and text them. I don't even fuck if they follow me. Those are the people who are actually like... I had an excuse here that. I saw Jack Panarte. I loved one of my favourite people.

Honestly, what a human. I love that man. Maybe we should keep this in, but I'm going to find him a wife. If anyone's interested. I mean, he's a hopeless romantic. I'm very good at finding people's partners. Yeah, he is a hopeless romantic.

He really is. And it's time. It's time for a wife. A wife. But it was really nice to see him out. And I don't think, I don't know whether we follow each other or not, but what we definitely don't do is we definitely don't interact on Instagram. And we definitely don't like, we're not on each other's stories and stuff.

Me and you. So when I see Jack, oh Jack, sorry. Me and Jack. So when I see Jack, like a mutual friend of ours, he's a brilliant musician called Jack Panarte, it feels deeper. I'm like, Jack, how you been? Where have you been up to? Yeah, I can see it.

Rather than like I saw everything you did. I've been on your stories for the last three months. And then we got really deep, really quickly. I just love talking to him. He's only deep, by the way. There's no other option with Jack. That's why I love him. He's not too small talking, which is great.

And he's been through a lot. And it was just great to see him. But anyway, I guess my point is it's just like, it's so funny how we maintain these relationships with that within Instagram and social media and in real life. You spoke about this, Makita, power of social relationships.

This was covered on Miss Me. We weren't extensively about the idea that we're friends of people that we're not really friends with. But it's not just that. The lack of something there may not. not be a lack in real life. Do you know what I'm saying?

It's like, oh, I don't follow them. It's like, who cares when I see them? I'm so happy to see them. And I've known them for 20 years. I think if we follow each other on Instagram, our love would be less, if that makes sense. Yeah, potentially, yeah. Okay, final question?

You ask for it. You ask for it, my real friend. No friend of me here. I hope you, I hope you know that. Sometimes. It's a difference. No, I love you. That's why you hit me up so much.

It's good, a bit of back and forth. I like to be challenged, but you're pushing me, Yeah, fine. That's fine. I respect it in return, genuinely. What? You've got to give for as good as you've got to take as you got a... Let's have the final question for this week, so. I mean, listen, bitch. Hi, Makita. Hi, Jordan. My name is Jolie, and I'm sending this voice note from Norwich. I am really excited because I'm going to see Lily on Sunday with my friend Sheridan, so I can't wait for that.

Shout out to Lily. my question on frenemies is what do you think about the expression keep your friends close but your enemies closer thanks no okay okay then we have to really talk about what an enemy is if someone who wishes

it wishes ill upon my soul and my family they're not that's actually very important that I don't keep them close towards me at all but I feel like you've got there are something people you need to keep an eye on it's not down yeah I think this... Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

I think this phrase or idiom or whatever, I think it's like, it's just too Machiavellian for me. Like, if you actually really sit with it, like, we've accepted it as a usual phrase. Friends, close. Enemies closer. Like, closer.

That's, like, truly deranged to me. Like, what do you mean? I'm going to put more energy into... But I do, like, keeping an eye on an enemy, sure. I do feel like... But why would we, actually? You almost only a... to somebody attempting to win power.

Like, that's why I mean about Machiavellian. Like, it would only apply to, like, a hierarchical structure of, like, a fucking, like, like, palace or something. You know what I mean? Like, if you... No, but deep frenemy situations are structured like that.

It's all about power and who's winning. Okay, so that's brilliant. This is brilliant, because that is why I don't even understand the concept of a frenemy, because I would not be wasting time with somebody that I just felt I either wanted to usurp in power

or felt was a threat to my you power. Like, what the fuck is happening? I used to have friends that Lily used to call Flavor of the Month, and it used to really piss me off and really upset said flavour of said month. Right. Some people transcended it, tall Phoebe.

Some people didn't. And Lily would be like, oh my God, McKee's got to drag another fucking flavor of the month around. And I'd be like, this is my friend. We're really close, and it had been like three weeks of partying and suddenly we were best friends. And I think Lily... I really don't.

So I think that there is something to be said for what my younger self was probably seeing young women. I was a young woman at the time too thinking, hmm, you're a bit threatening. I need to make you my best made. Yeah, this is what I'm saying. You've got into social climbing. No, because it's not about going up. It's about roles already in place. That's interesting.

So when I first saw Tall Phoebe, I was like, okay, hmm, mix race, mouthy. and, you know, Tall Phoebe is a supermodel. And I was just like, okay, whoa, if I don't make her my friend, she's going to be a real problem. Okay, so this is, no, no, no, but listen, but listen, you're laughing about it, but actually, what the other point I was going to make was, there is a version of this phrase,

which I think actually makes more sense. Like, rather than saying, like... You do like to rewrite an idiom, so go ahead. I'm just saying, like, rather than the focus being, like, I need this person close so that, so that I can perhaps at any point take or prevent power being shifted, right? There is a way to look at it where like, okay, this is about to get a bit like, whatever. I don't know what the term would be.

But there is a way of looking at it where it's like the fact this person has inspired a feeling of discomfort in me could be a good reason for me to move towards them. So for example, like, do you get what I'm saying? There's a spiritual spin on it where it's like, if I actively dislike this person's choice, or if you're threatened by something about this person, the best approach might be to understand them. And then it will dissipate. Keep your friends close and understand your enemies more.

There's so many stories I've heard of like people have been fucked over by the same person who meet up and then become friends. But previously they had been in competition. Right. Because the monster exists in the absence of that connection. Whereas if you were like, if you actually just confronted it and spoke to this person, and you'd instantly humanised whatever you had in your head.

And then it's really difficult to be angry. Yeah. One of these people that was a flavour for the month, I suppose, went on for a few years, was someone that was like the ex-girlfriend of someone I thought I really fancied. So I was like, you need to be closer to me. Because it scares me you had him. Yeah.

I read a short story about that the other day. God, this is, I mean, let's just call like Soho in the early noughties. Let's say it's like the Palace of Versailles. Okay. And I was like, you know, we're all in the court essentially trying to keep our power structures and our roles within that power structure, said power structure. And my game was always, if you, if I think that you've got, had something that I want or could get some, take something that I like away from me, I'm going to bring you very close to me. But then feet tall Phoebe is more what you were saying just now, which is actually something about her. It disarms you. I was drawn to her. It disarmed me.

Yeah. But she's been my best friend for 20 years. I guess that was our version of falling in love with each other in a weird way. Yeah, you got to move into it. Well, this just got fucking deep on the last question. Also, can I just say, I've been dying to say it since the beginning. When we spoke about the girls thing, that was interesting to me because in my friendship group growing up and then like in the beginning of Rizzle kicks,

that's more, or throughout, to be honest, but whatever, there was one, there's one guy who, for example, me and Harley barely ever crossed over in terms of we never fell out over, over. women or girls because we're so different as people. It would be quite obvious which type of guy the girl would be interested in. I think you can see that from your partners now, from like Moss and Jade. You're both with like the people that would go for you to. That makes sense.

Right. But then weirdly, another guy in our group who doesn't look anything like me at all, but our charisma is similar. We would always, we would always get into different. situations like very really like I would trip into these things sometimes naively it hasn't it hasn't been this way for years now like maybe even almost a decade but like it was just so fascinating that like there was even a point where our partners at one point in our life looked the same oh latest it's an energy so there is some sort of calmic bond between you in a weird way

is we don't even speak as much as they'll speak to other people in the group but I'll make a joke and like he'll be the only one he gets it What I'm trying to say is out of the friendship group, we've kind of found your comfortable way of being in each other's lives. We've clashed the most, but in truth, it's because I feel like we're the most similar. Oh my God. We have to end these dogs driving me crazy.

200th episode. Oh my God, congratulations everybody. Just you mainly. Congratulations everybody. Is it just me that can say yes to this? You're the only one who's had to do 200 yet. Well done. Congrats.

And Dino, if he's on the line, but I don't think years. No, even these caught up. This is a celebration for you only. Just clapped yourself. Well done. Oh God, you haven't done me. God, I've got one time. No, I had some weeks off when I had surgery.

Everybody, I want everybody listening to go into the DMs that McKee will never read and say, congratulations. 200 episodes, it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. Wow. I'm going to go have a nap. It is a beautiful thing. That's why next week's ListenBitch theme is something about like playtime. It's so springy and lovely out here.

We could do. Have you ever actually done plants? No, we've never done plants. That's great. Do plants. We've done nature. Let's do, should we do plants and flowers? No, no, no, no.

Flowers are plants. Let's do plants. So next week's theme is going to be... Plants. I love plants. I'm my favourite, bro. Send in your voice notes to 08,000, 3040, 90. Yeah, and can we just say that flowers are coming under plants?

Because I'd love to just do flowers, but we're going to do them all together. Because I'm sorry, I was... walking through the park that I live near, and me and my friend were like, this is the nicest spring I've ever seen. This is the most beautiful spring I've ever seen. And I think it's because, I think it's because, this time last year, we just don't miss me live.

And then a week later, I had to evacuate from my flat and move to my mom's sofa. So I didn't actually see spring last year. I was like literally under a cover in shock with the curtains closed for a few months, apart from dragging myself out to do miss me. So I feel like it's the, I feel like I was dead. last year and I'm alive again and I can see spring

and I'm so aware of every blue. Like we're the airman. Like Jesus. I have come back. Just for Easter baby. Ready for Easter, let's go. I'm back in time for Easter. Plants and flowers is good around Easter as well nice. I love it. I can't wait. I cannot wait. Love you. Love you. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persefonica production for BBC Sounds. Joy Morgan was last seen at her secretive church.

Six weeks later, she's reported missing. I'm Charlie Brinkhurst Cuff, and after years of investigating Joy's case, I need to know. What really happened to Joy? This is the missing sister, the true story of a woman betrayed by those she trusted most. Listen now on BBC Sounds. It's the Oscars on Sunday,

and while American movies have long been America's great, cultural export. The Academy Awards are increasingly nominating international films, not made in America. I'm Asma Khalid, one of the hosts of The Global Story Podcast from the BBC. How did Hollywood's biggest night become so international? Listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.