Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! J’adoor

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens answer your questions about doors.Next week, we want to hear your questions about VAGINAS. Please send us a voice note on WhatsApp: [phone]. Or, if you like, send us an email: [e-mail] episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Danny Pape Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. You're not at the office. You're solving murders in the Scottish Highlands. You're not in your car. You're in a candlelit carriage on the way to the ball. This winter, see it differently when you stream the best of British TV with Britbox. Catch a new original series like Riot Women. New seasons of fan favourites like Shetland. The body's been found. And on parallel collections of Jane Austen, Agatha Christie and Moore. It's time to see it differently with Britbox. Watch with a free trial now at Britbox.com. Dive into the bonkers world of David Mitchell and Robert Webb

and listen to their BBC comedy show. From nonsensical maths quiz number wang to finding out what James Bond is really like as a party guest. There's something for everyone. Hello, MOTT AAT. Yes, that's right. This is the Ministry of Things that are apparently true. Yes, we do exist.

The rumours are true, ironically. Start listening to that Mitchell and Webb's. The Complete Series 1 to 5, wherever you get your audiobooks. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes and discussions around drug use. Welcome, there's a few thank yous we have to give before we start the episode. This episode today on ListenBitch in the year 26. We've been in your lives for two years now. I haven't.

And the theme for Listen Bitch, no, we aren't running out of ideas. No, you haven't. is doors. That was my idea. Now some people might go, oh God, oh no. They have nothing left to talk about, but actually this, we think, could be something very, very special.

At the very least, I think people's attention should just be drawn. This is something you said to me about being consciously, consciously going through life and people might bat it away. Go, shut up, man. Why am I thinking of doors? Well,

Because you're going to go for at least four today probably. And it'd be nice to think about it. That's good. That's good, yeah. If doors aren't important in your life, how many are you going through today? I bet quite a few. Yeah, and also it doesn't have to be literal, as we said, could be metaphysical. We might be walking today, Jordan, through metaphysical doors to new opportunities and moments in our life.

Right now, we don't know. Right now. We could be creating something that's a door opening. One bit of feedback we got from the plants theme was that the show wasn't girly enough. Bring back girl, he missed me. Do doors have too much from mask energy? Yeah, it is a bit blokey in it. Doors.

It's Jordan, he's got a penis and we're doing doors. Listen, bitch. More like listen, Bella. Yeah, exactly. I'm so sorry. It is still listen, bitch. This is a female safe space. This is space for everyone.

Let's do this. Let's open our first door. Hello, Jordan and Mikita. This is Annabel from Paris. talking about doors, this is kind of something a bit embarrassing, but I actually was thinking about this. I still struggle to know if it's to push or to pull a door. And I live in a building with many, many doors. And every day, I still forget if I need to pull it or to push it. And what I don't understand is, can't there just be one way of opening a door? Like universally, I think it would

save people a lot of time and embarrassment. What do you think? Love the podcast and loving all these very niche themes. I actually thought that it was good, the idea of doing a podcast on senses, like smell or all the other senses there are. Okay, thank you. Bye.

Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you so much. It's got so bad. They're actually giving us listen bitch ideas. now. Doors is really, like Jordan's really, you really let Jordan pick that one.

Can I just say, before we answer the question, I don't know what the female equivalent of phallic is, but a door is that. A door is a vagina. Oh, it's an opening. You're right. Yonick. Oh, of course. Yonick, as in yonni.

That's quite a nice name for the vagina. You're yonni. Yonni. I think it's yonie, but I'm saying yonick because it looks like tonic. We really need to do Vig. vaginas for Lissom-Bitch. But that will bring it back. That's what we'll do.

Next week we'll just do vaginas. Oh, and it says common yonic symbols, doorways, tunnels, archways, and then flowers, shells. Jordan, can I say something? You are a fucking genius because, yes, there was some hate to Jordan about the grass that we discussed at Martin's Sissonvich, and it managed to come back to some sort of misogyny. and incredibly we do doors

and we're basically talking about vaginas incredible incredible no one else does it like you it's amazing I can't believe you just think that well done but we will do just to double down

next week we are doing vaginas and then we've really taken it back home now to answer the lady's question should there only be one way to answer at all the most embarrassing thing I find in the world is if I'm in public and I push when it's went to me.

No, it's only embarrassing when the direction is written on the door. That's when I do it. It will literally say push and I'll pull it. So it might be a reflex of like, oh shit, there. A command is in front of me. I don't want to get it wrong and then you panic and do the wrong thing. Yes. But what's more crazy is she said, isn't there a universal way of knowing?

But the funny thing is the reason why it's push your pull is because obviously if you push one way, you have to pull the other. And everyone's always moving forwards. Oh, yeah. So you can't just like, there's not universal unless it's just, it's impossible. Unless you had a two-way door, which is a thing that a lot of people have, you can just push it either way. Now they do. Absolutely. That's, I think that's how they solved it. They were like, should we make a door that goes, push it out of fault.

Yeah. But some people don't have space for that. It's another thing. It's true. We also really have to say thank you to first century AD, which is excuse me, when the first automatic door, Jordan, was invented. What do you mean? Automatic door? Yeah.

They used water and fire, obviously. A fire was lit on an altar by a priest, heating a sealed vessel with water. Heat created pressure, forcing water from the vessel, through a pipe into another container. The receiving container acting as a wait, descended, blah, blah, blah.

As the fire cooled, a vacuum was created, drawing the water back into the original vessel, allowing the counterweight to rise and the doors to close. Okay, so there was no button. No, and also the purpose was to create the idea of illusion, I'm guessing, not to sense when someone was about to walk through it. Yeah, yeah, it is illusion. I was thinking it was more engineering.

No, it is engineering, but engineering for the sake of illusion. A lot of magic tricks, in fact, magic tricks are ultimately great engineering. Engineering for the sake of illusion. I love you today. What's intense? Let's have another question for Tors. Let's totally do this. I'm Akita and Jordan. My name's Angie. I'm from Dunstable and I was just thinking about the subject of doors and I wondered if you have ever had a sliding doors moment. So I chose a job right at the beginning of my career over another one and I often wonder what would have happened if I had chosen the other job. So I'd love to hear what your thoughts are. Thanks. Bye.

Wow, God, this is great This is great I only ever heard the sliding doors The terminology sliding doors Once the film came out Once the Gwyneth Paltrow, John Hannah film came out What was it called before that Or was it always called a sliding doors moment

And then they made a film called sliding doors Because of that I'm assuming the phrase would have come before I think No actually, actually no, actually You know what This second time I can't be confident about that actually Because you might Should we double check?

Yeah I need to shut the fuck up this week week. Fattow. God damn. What was that called before? It was just so well done because, you know, the lady, if you haven't seen sliding doors with Grenad Vulture and John Anna, where have you been?

Yeah. They use the tube. They really ram this door thing down your fucking throat. No, but you've nailed that, by the way, because, like, in my life, I would have barely even reached a state of, like, cognitive awareness to even know that that was rooted in a film. And that's when art is like next level, isn't it? It's like, get out.

Like people use the phrase sunken plays to describe a person from having seen a film. To talk about a moment in life is like based on the way it was shown to us in a film one. Yeah, that was a very sliding doors moment. Mad. Like a film has that much cultural impact. That's crazy.

Nat just gave us a really good one, Sophie's Choice. I use that in jokes a lot. I'm like, oh God, it's like Sophie's Choice. And it's like, actually that's deep. Yeah, it's proper deep. And people are like, oh, it's been like Sophie's choice in like the bagel shop. They become very different things

because they're so embedded. Savvy's choice now is more like, how the fuck are you going to make that decision? Catch 22. Is that from the book? Wow, how powerful can you get? This is why you have to make art. You have to write things.

You have to make things. Jesus. I saw something the other day where someone was talking about, I get the joke. There's like a thing that might be a trend where it's like Shakespeare was cool, but would he have said.

And then they do like a rap, which is like some like deep, which I get because it's funny because obviously Shakespeare and that context is representing like what people think is whatever. But I find it privately funny because a lot of the time the raps include words

that Shakespeare actually invented. What like? Words that Shakespeare invented is a list. Hold on. Swagger. Swagger. Lonely. Lonely?

Fashionable. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is insane. Star crossed. Oh, my, yeah, star crossed, I'll give him. But this is interesting, isn't it? Because you're right. There would have been a thing

that people were, but to coin it, give it a name, to call it lonely. And that's just what something is. That is insane. The thing is, right, we can still do this and we still do this all the time. I actually literally yesterday I was writing something and it came up as not a word. I know that people would know it was a word. Do you know what I'm saying? I just have to double down on it and then people have to believe it.

He also invented some idioms. We didn't mention at the time. Wild Goose Chase. That's Shakespeare. Break the Ice. That's Shakespeare. Heart of Gold. Cold-blooded, dauntless,

disheartened, gloomy, impartial, invulnerable. Impartial? Yes, magnificently, noiseless, unreal. All Shakespeare just going, he's going, fuck it. He's just gone, fuck it. He's like, you get it, don't you? Turns out Shakespeare was really rather quite talented. Anyway, have I had a sliding doors moment?

Many, many, many, many, many. I'm just trying to, like, really hone in on one and trying to think of one that wasn't, isn't just work-based. No, no, but work-based is good. You've already said, about a sliding doors moment because what was the

how did you come about about the pop stars thing? What pop stars thing? Sorry, not pop stars, pop world. You said the way in which you got into it young.

Yeah, yeah, I just didn't really want to bang on about pop world but yes, obviously getting Pop World. Yes, because if I had stayed in school, I wouldn't have got Pop World.

Right. And the sliding doors moment was Not being in school. No, going to a particular dinner party with my mum where a particular producer saw me. Boom. Yeah.

That's literally a sliding doors moment. Yeah, totally. I could have not gone. it's crossroads. So basically in the film, let's just use sliding doors, she gets on a tube, she catches her tube,

she gets home and finds her boyfriend sleeping with another woman and her life changes from there. She leaves her shitty job and then goes, gets a better job and falls in love with the guy. I've honestly got so many of them, it's actually ridiculous.

Yeah, but then what they do is, and they do this so incredibly by changing Gwendoza Paltrow's haircuts. So in one life, she's got a short blonde crop and in the other life she's got long brown hair

because it would be confusing without it. And in the other life, she misses the tube. She doesn't catch him having an affair. She stays in the shit job. So it was like, it's that idea of like one step in one direction. Everything changes. Love that. That this is, that is.

Isn't that great? Like, because I get asked all the time, like, what's the one moment? You know what I mean? Like, can you pin everything back to one moment or whatever? For me, obviously it's specifically been in the context of my career. And I was walking home. I must have been. 17?

I must have been 17 and I was walking past the end of my mate's road yeah, I was 18 maybe and he rung me as I was walking past the end of his road and he said, oh, I'm having a few people over for family drinks do you want to come, right? And I always know in my head, if I hadn't have been walking past the end of his road, I wouldn't have gone

because family drinks doesn't sound fun, do I mean? That doesn't sound like. And I went to family drinks and his cousin was going out with his guy. called Toby and he kept talking to me about oh I'm a wedding photographer but I I started shooting little films of my family holidays and I was like okay you know I mean I'm just kind of like sure and he's like I just didn't want to bath do you want to see it and I was like yeah like kind of whatever and he gets his phone that goes on vimeo and he plays me in this video

of his family and bath and I was like that is unbelievable I was like how did you do that and he went oh it's just my my camera my 5D I was like well would you ever do a music video he's like yeah he's like I've got it on me now and I was like oh we literally went upstairs that evening and did a video to one of my songs that I'd done, I'd done a cover of the strokes as a rapper called Sunday he then shot a video to Down with the Trumpets

with me and Harley and we got signed a month later he did all of our videos literally like until maybe pretty much until the middle of the second album he was award nominated now he's a professional filmmaker no stop because you could have been

on another corner if I had like left where I was before earlier if I'd got the bus home Like there's all these different situations It goes back Doesn't it? And then if I hadn't did a day It's like when you bump in someone on the street And you go fuck that was weird

Because I nearly got the other train The other one I spoke about the other day Is a mad one For the second album Me and Harley went to Miami And worked with Farrell Wow We were in the studio and he was singing happy

Yeah right So he was like two seconds guys I just got to lay down this thing And he's like Clap along if you feel I was like okay That sounds cool And then we made

And then we made these four songs. One of them was this monster of a song called Feeling Myself, which was like, it must have been like an NERD demo. And then we like flipped it. It was so heavy. However, it wasn't like the rest of the album. And at that time, I was on a lot of drugs. And I was fiercely focused on creating what I wanted to create, right?

And so I said to the label, I'm not putting this song on the album. And they're like, you are an insane person. Like, this is Farrell. This is, by the way, he hadn't even had his Renaissance. So it wasn't even inexpensive to buy the tune or nothing. If we had released it, when we'd release it, we would have basically got the buzz off of happy everything, right?

But, but this is the sliding doors thing. I have peace in myself and people might think I'm just deluding myself. I genuinely believe if we had put that record on an album and led with that single, I don't think I'd be here. As in like dead from success. I was so mashed up at a time. I was so like in. such a whirlwind. I mean, you saw me at that time.

Yeah. If our success had got bigger, if we'd gone to like the States or something, I would have just destroyed myself. I genuinely believe I would have destroyed myself. I don't think it's delusional at all. I know we're taking a long time on this question, but I just wanted to reiterate a story that Lil told that I'd never fucking heard on like a really early episode of Miss Me. So if you've been listening forever, you might remember this unbelievable moment. But she was telling me about why she sort of never went to the stratospheric height she was about to get to in America and it was because she was going through customs. They asked her if she took drugs and she said yes.

Wow. And they took her for questioning and she, you know, she'd just done a song with common. She was going to like play the DMAs. Yeah, I love that song. I love that song. It was going to be how she, how big she was here with a second album in America.

I don't think her body could handle it. I think she fucking killed it for herself. We do protect ourselves sometimes. Yes. Or like the future version of ourself does. Yes, exactly. It's like 30, four-year-old Jordan's like, nah, babe.

Nah, bro. No. Mad, isn't it? Mm-hmm. God. Great question, great theme, great, listen, bitch. Next question. Hi, Jordan and Makita.

Feels wild. I'm leaving you a voice note. This is Kerry from Bournemouth. Just a quick one. I saw the doors was a subject and thought, that is so random. But then immediately, I was reminded of this reoccurring dream that I have and have had for years around toilet doors.

So I'll be in my dream, out in public, always need a poo. And either the door will be too short or the door will be too high so people can see underneath it or there won't be any doors or the toilet will be adjoined with another toilet so I have to sit next to somebody else. And it's always about pooing and people, there's no privacy. I don't know what the point of my voice note was, but do you have a similar dream? I speak to other people and some people have the same one. I don't really know what it means. I'm sure it's about insecurities. I've looked it up before.

That was my knee-jerk reaction to the subject of doors. Thank you. That is fascinating. Yeah, they do. I mean, it's pretty standard in Doors and Dreams is transitions, opportunities or emotional boundaries. But also privacy, it's so interesting that doors provide safety. Yeah, someone told me the other day when I said other themes, doors, she said, oh, I didn't have a door when we were kids. I was like, that poor.

And I was like, oh, my God, how, what about privacy? She was like, I just didn't really know what privacy was. That's how much a door can bring, the idea of privacy or no privacy. Like, think about how important it is to be able to go in a room and shut a door sometimes. I mean, yeah, it's exposing. I don't think I have doors in my dreams that much. But that's interesting because doors can also be separation, which can also have a, like, a negative side too.

It can be security, but also are you locking yourself away? You know what I find weirder is that women, you know, obviously there are gender fluid bathrooms, but in the instance of female and male gender bathrooms, women have privacy. Men don't. Not for peeing, no. The idea that it's like, you only need privacy for pooing.

What? No, no. The fact that from a young age, you are naked in front of each other in a different way that women are. No, you're not naked, but your genitals are out in front of each other, next to each other. Yeah, but we're not.

There's rules, there's rules, there's rules. What are the fucking rules? Don't look. I can't get into it. There's a whole thesis on it. You can't. There's a whole thing, I imagine. You can't be looking at, I mean, you can,

but I'm saying that like, it's not, in the UK, I can only speak on behalf of the UK. It's a pattern of where men stand. If there's one man in the cubicle, you're in there of urinals, you're not going to stand next to them. You're giving them space. But if it's busy.

If it's busy, you have to, men are often looking up. Well, the reason I thought about it, though, was because, I went to the theatre and then I was thinking, right, so they've obviously made this because you can get more men in. So you can like get men into pee and then they go. But like men don't need to pee more than women. So it's like, why haven't we just created a similarly economic?

Because the cue for women's toilets is always crazy. It's mad. It's mad. You don't know what we go through. I'm not saying make the men's toilets queue crazier. But then if you had the same issue from a male perspective, why wouldn't you try at least try and solve it? Like what I need is a woman to be the architect of toilets. A female urinal. Yeah, something.

Or just like all they, you know, sometimes you see multiple stores. In some clubs you have unisex and then there's just loads of stalls, which kind of makes sense. It does, it does need a little redesigning, doesn't it? I think so. Because as a woman who needs the loo, when it's like the theatre woman cue or a festival or a party, it's like, oh, for fuck sake. I always go in the men, so I don't give a shit. Can I say? You know what's weird?

I was doing a job yesterday in Stratford. Huge door installation. Huge door installation. Like a literally, on my way back to the car, there was a door, a fucking massive door just open. And people were taking pictures next to it. And you knew the theme was this? Yeah.

Okay, weird. How mad is that? This is some good metaphysical shit today. Doors has been great. Let's have a break. then get right back to opening some new doors and opportunities in all of our lives. Dive into the bonkers world of David Mitchell and Robert Webb and listen to their BBC comedy show. From nonsensical maths quiz number wang to finding out what James Bond is really like as a party guest.

There's something for everyone. Hello, MOTT AAT. Yes, that's right. This is the Ministry of Things that are apparently true. Yes, we do exist. The rumours are true, ironically. Start listening to that Mitchell and Webb sound, the complete series 1 to 5, wherever you get your audiobooks. We didn't actually close the door. We just left it a jar. We're just making some tea on the other side. Let's have another question. Good morning, team. My name's Maysoon. I'm from Glasgow, fresh to London.

Everything's a door, every thought's a door, every worry is a door, every choice is a door, everything's a portal. and it just depends on what doors you're willing to keep shut or sometimes reopen and be like, no, the exact same thing is still there. Is this helpful? Do I have a question? What are your favourite kinds of doors? I hate doors that don't have any sort of chipping in and out. I don't know what the word for that is embossment. I like to think that any door that I think of realistically and metaphorically is an embossed door,

but sometimes a flat door of a messy handle of the ones that in the house I grew up in. That also means something. Sometimes they're the easiest and best or isn't. Simple. Sorry. Have I missed the point of the assignment? Guys, listen, take from this what you will, goodbye. No, you have not missed the point of the assignment.

That was full of everything I need. Particularly in the beginning. What does she say? Every opening's a door. Every thought's a door. Basically, life. Life is a door. And I think that's kind of what we're trying to say.

Jadour. Jadour! See, that's quite. good. You are on fire today. Oh, and also, you know, I love that there's the most beautiful phrase in all of the land of all time is celladour.

Celladour. What's that? Apparently it's the most beautiful thing to say phonetically. As in a cellar door, as in like where you put wine? I mean, it is, it is a cellar door. Oh, cellar door. It sounds to say. Yeah, cool. It does feel, it's nice to say, but I mean, there might be

something else I like saying more, but I'll go. with it. What's your favourite door? They're into embossed doors. I really enjoy a really heavy door and that's because in Housing Trust flats and like just when you're poor, doors are usually

very often light. They close really lightly. They've got those particular handles and they're a representation of the fragility of poverty, I think. I hear it. So I have the really heavy doors in my house now and I always feel like, I've made it!

Yeah. I've got heavy doors with handles and everything. Because we always, we had a bit of issues with doors in some of the flats we had. What I think about with doors is the fact that they're square or like oblong, you know, some doors, if you were to make a door more of an oval, it wouldn't make it less like a door. It might be harder to produce en masse, I'm guessing. That's why because like the angles and edges are to measure up next to a house. Squares are quite good for like measuring and building into, yeah.

So I'm answering my own question. But like the feeling of going through an oval door. Oh yeah. Feels that futuristic for some reason. An arch. An arch. Arch is. Arch is big deal.

Big deal. Archers. No, but there's something beautiful about an arch. Why do we think we go under arches when we get married? Yes, exactly. It's something ceremonial. There will be some ancient vibes, man. Reasons as to why arches are powerful.

I'm telling you. Like why churches, right? Churches always have arch doors or like rounded off doors, no. Ah, because it's a gateway. An arch signifies a sort of sacred gateway, a right of passage, a new phase of life. Yeah. A door feels more like metaphorically, metaphysically and physically, feels like an opening and an opportunity. But I think there's something about an arch that feels like you are going through a particular phase of life or stepping into something new, a new gateway.

Yeah. But every door can feel like that if you allow it. I like fridge doors. fridge doors You know what I mean? Because even though I have quite a complex relationship with food There's always something exciting

about opening a fridge door So true What feeling do you have When you have when you have a fridge door? Anticipation This is about to kick off Shit's about to get exciting But the thing is most of the time

I know what's in there I know what's in there already But I'm just like, who knows bro? Like who knows someone might come in Put my favourite treats in Something may have changed Obviously not but the fridge door without fail always laced with opportunity and anticipation.

And that's always heavy, bro. You have to always give it a little, that shit sucked in. Otherwise you're getting ice, pure ice. You know, that's interesting. I opened Seb, I was at my friend Seb's house last night, and I opened his fridge door. And I don't really do that. And I was like, I fucking love other people's fridges.

Yeah, you have to ask, though. You do have to ask. I've actually been in a situation where someone has opened the fridge, like, Rubewey, what are you? doing. You can't just open a fridge. That's not yours. If I came around to you and J's and open the fridge, I would feel really uncomfortable. If I opened the fridge and you didn't say anything, I'd be like, I'm family. Yeah, yeah. No, no. This is the thing. There is weirdly, it with close people, there is a time and a place for it, but it has to be like in context. Yeah, okay. If you turn

up, oh, man, I'm not eating in ages, whatever, sat down, what we get in, da-da-da, and you go look at the fridge, fine. If we walk in and we're like, we're midway conversation, oh, man, I'm really stressed at work. And then you just walk over and over and over. open the fridge. What the fuck is happening? What is happening? Context is important. Also, can I say, I want to do an honourable shout out of a barn doors. Okay. I love utility. And to have multiple options to a door is exciting to me. You can open half the top. Ah, yes. So you can just crack open the door. It becomes a window. So you got a window door. Okay, so I'm not suggesting anyone else does this, but it's a funny story. I may or may not, or I did, uh, ingested.

some magic vegetables and half of the my friendship group had done the same half them hadn't the ones you hadn't done it were inside a house and we were outside we realized after the moment had kicked in that we were on a different wavelength to the other people so I realized I had to go to the toilet which included going through the house so I thought okay let me just be super normal Act normal. Like, no, like it's super chill. All I got to do is just walk through this one room and get to the bathroom and I'm fine, right?

Yeah, yeah, you can do this. Do this. We rented a cottage in the countryside. I built up the normal energy, walked to the door, pushed it at the top and only the top half of the door opened. And then I was stood facing everyone

and I couldn't figure out how to get through the door. So I was walking into the bottom of the door like a Sims character. And then I thought, this is the least, not I've done the opposite. Instantly. You've never looked more high. But I wouldn't recommend it to other people because they're illegal.

Yeah. Next question. Hey, Jordan and Makita. It's Will from Westbourne Park. My question to you is, do you believe in the phrase, when one door closes, another one opens? I know there's been times in my life where you think something's the end of the world and then it actually leads you to something even better,

whether that's in a job or relationship. Yeah, we'd love to know your thoughts. It's a sliding doors moment, hit me with it. You had a second one. Do you know what? I really like to bathe often in the beautiful, never knew it was going to happen, punch you in the face,

knock you down for six moments where you have met the people that you have loved or fancied or liked in your life because every single person that I've ever been out with or liked or loved or anything, I never knew I was going to meet them and I like remembering those moments

and then taking 10 steps back and being like, shit, if I'd never. taught to Larissa that night, we wouldn't have gone to that terrible night in South Martin Street and I would have never met Nick, which actually really led me to Tall Phoebe. Like I just think it's really, it's, they're really nice moments to remember no matter what happened with your romantic relationships, but just to go back to remember all those moments, you're like, who the fuck is that? And kind of knowing, but not knowing that everything's about

to change. Is there a specific moment? I think with this question, it's an opportunity to be like, and I agree with you, by the way, massively. And it's a, excite. But I mean, has there been something that we perceive as negative, but then comes out as a positive? Yes, now, but that's the work I've been doing for the last few years, which is trust the fucking flow in the process. What I see now in my past, Jordan, is all the pain from my relationships has been about

me not wanting to go with the universe when it told me something was not right. Yeah, thanks. And me being like, I'm writer than you, universe. I'm righter than you, God. So I'm going to just keep pursuing this. or I'm going to keep going back to this person or I'm going to keep this door open instead of just fucking letting it close.

So that's a great part about being older because I would never do that now. Even if it's very painful with people and if it really hurts. Beautiful scenes. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks.

It's actually really painful process but thanks. I'm happy it sounds eloquent and nice. No, but of course. Yeah, I know I'd listen, we talk often about this stuff. I mean, this is why I'm so obsessed at East, man. And they're all like, yeah, suffering. Embrace that.

Oftentimes, avoiding it is what makes things, in avert commas, worse. Yeah, I'm trying to think if I've got like an example of something where... Okay, well, I've got one for you. Go on. You writing a book about holding on to a past relationship. Yeah. That turning you into the person that wanted to find different things

and finding someone like Jade. Your signing to a moment isn't necessarily when you met Jade. it's what happened before. A hundred thousand percent. And actually that breakup wasn't just a door closing of that person. It was a door closing of a specific type of person that you were continuously going out. Loads of that, yeah, loads of that. So there's a lot of doors closed that day.

Also, just as a bit of trivia, the funny thing about me and Jade is we had never met. I met every other little mixed girl, spoke to them, saw them. We never ever met. We at the same gigs. We're at the same launch parties. It's crazy. No timing. Of course that.

But I mean, I thought that was kind of on the nose in terms of, yeah, you know, accepting like a really unbelievably debilitating abandonment wound is ultimately what like redefined me becoming like something towards balanced. But, you know, obviously still have a lot of work. Just because it's obvious that story in your life does not mean that people don't need to hear it again. It's like that is the biggest work we can ever do. It's like sit in what is more painful than you've ever felt and still trust that things are happening for the right reasons. in the right way for you.

Yeah. When I first went sober, I had a really difficult time believing that I could create because I'd attach the idea of creation to destruction, which is like some kind of archaic idea, I think, of how and when inspiration comes, right?

So for a year, I had writers block, which terrified me. Like, I actually thought I had to choose between intimate relationships and being creative. I thought that that was like the thing, right? And it got so exhausting

I'd been creating a load in my life, but I'd also been not finishing a load of things in my life. So I was so exhausted with writers' block that I brought up this kid's book idea that I'd had for like two years. I came up with it when I was in chaos, maybe even three years. And this agent had been messaging me every six months going, are you able to show me that idea you told me in person? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I send it to you.

I sent it to you. She went, no, no, it's not the same idea. And I kept ignoring her. Because I couldn't write anything. I've opened it back up. And I was like, oh, there's like a whole size. sub-story in this book that I've not, I don't need it. I just edited. For the first time of my life, I just edited. I don't think I'd ever actually in my life until that point edited anything.

I hadn't gone over unless someone else did it, you know. Right. So I literally, this is no lie, I deleted half of the story I'd sent my agent. I went, okay, so I didn't create anything. I just deleted half of it. And she went brilliant. And I had a book deal three weeks later. Oh my God. Three years. She messaged me. And all I did was delete half of the book. So what do you think that particular door moment was about. I realized editing is just as important as creating. Like actually, ironically, the destruction or the destroying was actually in that shape. It just needed to be a little edit.

I needed to go in and just know I needed to remove rather than what I needed to add. Wow. And then, yeah. And then that kind of like begun the process of me becoming an author. Becoming an author and feeling like a shackle of an identity of which is I create when I'm fucked. Yeah. And also creation is the only. important part of creating.

When people will say, it goes across the board. People say it entirely, people will say in music, like the real song, the real film, the real TV show is made in the edit room. It's made after the creativity has got to a point. Yeah. What can you remove and still tell the same story? Well, I mean, thank you, Kaelin. Thank you, Nat, for being such incredible editors.

I'll miss me when we talk so much bullshit. You're really the weavers of this magic. It's true. When I listen back, I always text Nat and go, bloody brilliant edit. We've, well, we work with the best. I'm exhausted. Doors has been great, but like, let's shut this door.

Let's shut this door. Quietly and softly and gently. Yeah. Oh, what's, what's next week's listen bitch then? Next week's theme for ListenBitch is. Viginas. We could use another word because friends of mine and I were having a little talk about it the other day and we all found it quite hard

to find a word that we like. Love vaginas. I think it's good after all the door stuff. All right, great vaginas. I love them too. You remember how to get in touch with your vagina? 08,000. 30, 40, 90. Yoni. Yeah, but we can discuss that.

I don't think we should call the episode Yoni. It's a bit like Goup does miss me. Well, don't let Gwyneth take away the ancient beauty of the phrase Yoni. Thank you very much. She's not the proprietor of ancient scripture. Very true. That's very true. I love Godin Peltre, but she's not that. You're right. So what we should do is stay with vagina because also we shouldn't say that vagina is an ugly word.

Yeah. Viginas, to be discussed, and discussions around the terminology and words for vaginas will be in said episode, obviously. Thank you very much, Jordan. I'll see you next week. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persefonica production for BBC Sounds. Hello, I'm Jack And I'm Rosie And we are two of the hosts of Lunchbox NV

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