Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! Kill Your Darlings

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Miquita Oliver and Simon Amstell answer your questions about spirituality.Next week, we want to hear your questions about FLATMATES. Please send us a voice note on WhatsApp: [phone]. Or, if you like, send us an email: [e-mail] episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Jonathan O’Sullivan Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. This episode of MissMe contains very strong language references to drugs and adult themes, but it's a pop world reunion. So let's have a good time. What is it? Welcome to Listen Bitch and what else? That's it. Go on, you say it. You just, you know, take it and do what you want with it. Bonjour. Ça va? Bienvenue. Could you say Listen Bitch in one of these languages? Could you not? É ecoute? Is it ecu- Well, how do you say listen?

Here, I think that's here. Here bitch. Here bitch. Yeah, yeah. Why is it called Listen Bitch? Why such an aggressive title? It's not aggressive. It's so silly.

It's me and Lily used to say, we still do and always have just we say it to each other to kind of like say hello, whatever, just like listen bitch. Oh wait, someone's told us it's Ecote Salope. Ecote Salope. And welcome to Ecote Salope. This is Listen Bitch. The theme for this week's Listen Bitch is spirituality. I should have brought my singing bowl up. Oh what about this? Look what I've got. This is quite my singing bowl up. Oh, what about this? Look what I've got. This is quite a singing bowl. Yeah, you could do something with that. I could bring my Buddha.

I've got some beads. Yeah, go on, put your beads on. Spirituality means something different to everyone. And today we're really going to find out what that is. I'm really curious to know. Clown school in France. Ah, yes. A screaming retreat somewhere. I didn't scream. Plant medicine around South America. I feel like these are your spirituality roots. Apart from the screaming. Oh, that was Jordan. Sorry, that was Jordan. Let's hear from some people about their feelings towards spirituality and I'm sure all these

wonderful stories will present themselves to us presently. Let's have the first question. Hi, so I'm Makeda, it's Elise from Manchester and my question about spirituality is have you always been spiritual? Is that always something you believed in or is there a certain point in your life that was like a catalyst for you to become more spiritual and believe in that side of things? Okay, usually they get quite deep but that was quite snappy. For me, I suppose it was having depression. Ah.

There was a wound. What year was this? When was this? This is about 14 years ago. Yeah, so you're about 30. Yeah, I'm around 30. And a friend of mine told me about something called ayahuasca. Ayahuasca that you took in Peru, was it? Yes. Yeah, because it is illegal in the UK. He seemed like an eight-year-old joyful spirit while he was talking about this thing that I'd never heard of.

I booked myself a ticket to Peru and I just went. I didn't do any research. I just found a place and spent a week and a half at a retreat. Luckily it was a really good one. And for five of those nights there were these, how do I explain, I've talked about this a lot, but it's always hard to explain it if people don't know what you're talking about at all. You take me through it. You sit in a circle and the kind of tepee structure, pinpointing moments when a trauma occurred,

moments when you decided that you needed to do something in order to stop the chaos. And for me, the medicine said, you were just a baby, you couldn't even crawl. Why are you feeling all this guilt and this anxiety about not being able to save your mother? Mm-hmm. And in that moment, I see how my whole personality gets made. I see how all the anxiety and shyness. Oh. Followed by funniness.

Oh my goodness me. All this stuff happens, all the coping mechanisms. Yeah. And during that ceremony, what I was able to do was forgive that child for not doing anything to stop the chaos because he was just a child. And then I'm free. Then I'm a joyful free spirit. I suppose one has to be ready to be met with these huge moments of trauma in one's past. Yeah. And of course, you know, it can pose physical and psychological dangers, especially people with, you know, mental health problems or mental health issues. So it's really good

to hear what it's done for you, Simon, and like what your experience with it was like. So I think everyone would be different. Kind of like you have to be in that place. You have to have the courage to look at the pain and sit with it and not run from it or numb it. I wish that my real spiritual awakening didn't come from pain but no I don't wish actually. You can't pinpoint the pain that leads you to certain things. It's like this is just what happened but I was really really going through a hard time a few years ago and I decided I was like okay well if I can't deal with this I know I'll just open up the biggest pain lock of my life and start talking to my dad again and you know

if we're having a rave in like the worst pain of my life then I might as well go to origin story and really take a look at this and you know what Simon, I did a FaceTime with my granny, had 93rd birthday, my grandma Annie in Edinburgh with my dad and all his brothers and sisters and my brother. So it wasn't like this unknown thing anymore. It's just part of my life. And I was just like, this new normal comes from unlocking and facing stuff back then a few years ago. It's like what do you decide to do with your pain? What do you decide to do with it? Because we all have

to hold pain for different reasons at different times. What are you going to do with it? I just realised, I just don't know if I answered the question properly, but the reason... That happens, don't worry. That happens on Listenvich quite a lot. The reason it's not just a healing thing, the ayahuasca ceremony, but it's a spiritual awakening is because you feel for the first time held by Mother Nature, loved by Mother Nature. I left that retreat feeling strong, sexy, alive. I just couldn't believe...

That it was all in you. That was all in me, but I had to remove a load of mine forged manacles. Yeah. My own creation that were necessary in a moment when I was younger, but now we're just have no place here. No place anymore. Let's have another question because I'm sure this will continue to come up. Simon, why don't you ask for the next question? I would like the next question. Is that not the right to do it? Is there another question? Hi, Makita and Simon.

My name's Katie, originally from Bedford, but now live in Eastbourne. Anywho, my spiritual journey started back in 2017. I was on maternity leave and literally just dreading going back to the job that I was supposed to go back to. My friend had given me a book, The Strangest Secret by Earl Nightingale. I was like, why don't you just try this and like manifest yourself a job? I thought, okay, why not?

I'll give it a go. I was so open and liberal, like wanting to earn this much money a month, being my own boss, doing something creative that makes me happy. Little did I know that the universe had in store for me that it was making taxidermy mice. So I now have a successful business making and selling naughty taxidermy mice, like pole dancers, drug takers, general misfits and I bloody love it. Anyhow, my question is, have you

ever manifested anything good or bad, like intentionally or unintentionally? Anyway, thanks so much. Bye. I really love someone that says any who, any who. Is this woman murdering mice and then dressing them up? No, I think she's making the mice from... No, taxidermy. Oh yeah. Does she happen to find dead mice or is she killing mice? That's actually true. Taxidermy is the shell of a dead animal, stuffed. Yeah, she's like stuffing a dead mouse and then dressing it up as what, a drug dealer? Is that what she's doing? Yeah. So you never know where your happiness may lay. I'm not sure.

Yes, I think you don't like the question. As a vegan? If I can, I'm not sure if I can get over that bit. I feel like we'd have to call her and she'd have to like explain why she was doing was alright. Do you feel like you can talk to her? Ethically. Or should I just answer this one?

Okay, so I'll just answer quickly then we'll move on. Yes, use your power for good, not evil. I used my power for evil in a sense towards myself for a very long time, believing that light didn't live inside me, beauty didn't live inside me and just ended up buying lots of really nice jumpers for DJIQ. DJIQ! Do your listeners know what that means? Actually I've usually called him Luke. Wow. To be fair. Sorry Luke. But this was a name that he had, he was a DJ and he was called DJIQ and you know I used to just give him lots of things I wanted for

myself. You wear the John Smedley Navy jumper. You wear those nice Jill Sander trousers. Like, I wanted to wear them, but I didn't think I could. I thought it was all in him. I always felt like it was in others, my kind of light. It really comes down to self-love. I think often it's just being kind to yourself. Yes.

All of this. Do you know what? A boy said to me once, I was sort of getting my career back, and I was like, I'm doing this, and then I'm going to do this, and I think I'm probably going to do this. And they were just things A boy said to me once, I was sort of getting my career back, and I was like, I'm doing this and then I'm going to do this. I think I'm probably going to do this. And they were just things that like might be happening. But I thought I'll just say them because, you know, I'm busy and I'm like, and he said, he said, that all sounds really good, but I like you anyway. And I was like, where's Egon? He turned out

to be one of the worst. Anyway, we've got enough with me. Okay, we've got to get another question and you answer it. Let's have another question for this week's Listen Bitch. We only have two. Hi both. I'm a massive fan of the podcast. I've commuted from South East London to Kilburn this morning for a work meeting. So in your ends, my question is is have you ever had a tarot card reading where it's been scarily accurate? A few years ago I had a tarot reading and it literally predicted me getting into a relationship and the month I would get into that relationship. Not in that relationship anymore but it was pretty accurate. So yeah that's my question for you this morning. Lots of love, bye! See this is tricky for me.

Go on. I love tarot readings and Phoebe Oliver's very good at them. And also my neighbor and very good friend, Kerry. So I've got a lot of tarot people around me that I trust. And I used it a lot when I was going through stuff and when I was trying to create new things and trying to just find constant courage. But I am not really a fan of asking a question

to try and get the answer I want. I don't like a reading that's just like, okay, right, so you're in a really powerful space and then because of all this, you're feeling this, which is great, and then you're gonna get, I need the shadow. So a good tarot reading to me has quite a lot of darkness in it because I feel like otherwise I'm being spun a tale even from the gods.

It's like, it's not all just going to be plain sailing surely. And it can't always be my time of real like you're about to step into your power. It's like, okay, is that really I've been about to step into my power for about three years now. I think there's a lot of that at the moment. People are like, I'm just going to have a year of like abundance and beauty and you know, achievement and it's like also people might die that you love and like you might get sick and I'm really not trying to be depressing. I'm just saying, I can't deal with butterflies and rainbows. It's not realistic and it's not really a reality I'm seeking. I just want to know that I'm going to be able to handle anything that comes my way. I'm gonna be able to handle anything that comes my way. You are gonna be able to handle anything that comes in your way. And the reason is, and you should just admit it right now,

you are unbreakable. Do we not have the evidence for Makita Oliver is unbreakable? Could we not make a long list? Of all the shit she's gone through. Yes. What about you though? Do you not feel like you've had this same sort of things to have to get through? I mean we touched a little bit upon it now with wounds and your relationship with your dad wasn't easy. No.

How's that these days? I gave up. I know I'm okay now. What did you give up first? Oh, I gave up trying to get love from a man who wasn't, let's try and say this in a loving way, capable of love. Because he wasn't loved enough as a child. And so I thought, oh, this isn't about me. No, this is the freedom moment.

I was like, oh, stop trying to get love from somebody who isn't capable of giving you love. Oh my god, the amount of trying. What if I do this? What if I send you this book? What if I... So you don't do any of that anymore? Don't do any of it anymore. I went over to see him. I was feeling so at ease with myself. Yeah. And at ease with being there.

And knowing that I can be here for about an hour, then I'm going to have to leave before I get infected. Oh, with bad energy. It's like going to the scene of a nuclear accident. And it's not these people's fault that they've been in a nuclear accident, but they have. And so you've got to go in there, you've got to go in your proper suit, and then when the alarm starts going off in your head, you've got two minutes left before infection. You've got to get out of there.

You've got to get out of there. But you leave good. You leave feeling good still. Here's how healed I am. I sat there and I said, I never asked you, because it's quite religious now, I never asked you how you squared your religious beliefs with my sexuality, because there was like a point a few years ago where he just sort of stopped bothering to worry about it. He sort of seemed to be quite polite at least about it and it was like, fine. And I said, I never asked how you squared your religious beliefs with my sexuality. And he said, well, you know, I just, um, I just realized at some point that there was nothing I could do

to change who you are. And I accepted that you're going to hell. Oh my God. He did not say that. He said that. You're going to hell. I laughed because it was so absurd. And there was nothing in me anymore that wanted to convince

him that he was wrong. Right. So I laughed and all I did was I wanted to make him feel less worried. And the reason I was so at peace in that moment was because he doesn't own God. Because of my trip to Peru, where I drank ayahuasca, I could say to him, listen, don't worry, I'm not going to hell. You know, I've had various spiritual experiences and... It turns out, I think I'm going to be okay. The shamans didn't mind. The shamans gave me an experience where I made love to myself in the middle

of the rainforest where they guided my finger towards my perineum, where as I pressed it into my perineum I made these loud orgasm sounds which I was embarrassed about, but I saw that the shaman in the rainforest wanted me to choose between shame and pleasure. Yes. Oh my god. And as I chose pleasure, rainbows flew out of my bum. What the hell is it? I'm in heaven. No, I mean it's like...

I'm in heaven. This is how I want to spend my time. Yeah. We're going to take a little break from all this Listen Bitch spirituality and we'll see you right afterwards. Welcome back to Listen Bitch, the spirituality episode. Let's have another question. I hope we're answering the questions. I hope we are. Or are we just ranting? Who knows? Hi, Miki, hi, Simon. Kisses to Lily. My name is Cathy. I'm from Mexico City and I live in Mexico City. I'm 42 years old and growing up as a Catholic, I never cared for it. So

I'm not a very spiritual person. But when I wish for something to happen, because I don't want to say pray, because I never pray, I ask for it to my cousin who died 30 years ago from leukemia. And I just wanted to know if you have ever met a person who doesn't believe in any religion or deity, but in a person like me. And I just wanted to say that I love the podcast. That's it. Thank you Bye. Thank you so much from Mexico City raw Guardian angels, I suppose this lady is talking about do you know what me and Phoebe do a lot of talking with our ancestors Everyone has ancestral paths that go back thousands hundreds of thousands of years How can we not be interested in it

and not think that they're not part of who we are now and what we do? I actually say something I do say to myself sometimes now is like, I will go out and do more because of who you were. No, it's better than that. I'll find it somewhere. Sure, sure. But you know, it's just like, I feel them.

Look, that's my great grandmother. And opposite me, I have a huge picture of Nanny from when she was 17 in Antigua. I think it's really important. It gives more reason to everything I do. If I was just like building a company because I wanted to like kill it on Instagram and like, yeah, like have like a fun marketing meeting, like whatever. But there is true joy that I give to people when I give them a skipping rope and I watch them skip. The other day, right? Okay, I was watching, this is not about God being within me, but I know my purpose. Because the other day I was watching Joker, that film Joker. I'm sorry, I didn't really say at the time, family, but I thought

it was shit. And it was kind of, everyone was kind of watching it and fine. And then afterwards I was like, have you seen the Aardman documentary? And that's the documentary about the animation company that gave us Wallace and Gromit and so many other things. And they were like, okay, put it on. Oh my God. When I tell you that the three people in the room, my mom, my auntie Amanda and Garfield, they're like laughing, regaling each other with stories of their youth. They're engaged. they're excited. It was comforting, it was interesting.

And I was like, whatever that was, that's my purpose. I think I know how to give people things they don't know they need yet, and I believe that's from my ancestors, if that makes sense. I think it does. It was a strange way to get there. I don't know why we needed the Joker or Wallace and Gromit, but I think we get it. I think we get it. Okay, ask for another question then. Alright, should we have another question?

Hi guys, it's Charles from Leeds. I just want to say I really love the pod. I'm recording this on 1111 and I just wanted to know what's your views on angel numbers? Thanks, bye! What's an angel number and what's an 11 11? Is 11 11, was it the date? No, that would have been November. He said I'm recording this on the 11 11. Is that a train? Probably a train. Okay. Josh loves the pod, he's on the 11 11, he wants to know about angel numbers. I'm so lost with this question. I don't know about angel numbers. Angel numbers are repeating numbers. Like 1111. So he's saying his is the 1111, mine is I do get 2222, which is obviously 22 minutes

past 10. This feels to me like a coping mechanism. And who's to say? I mean, we shouldn't deny people their coping mechanisms. But there was a, I feel like I saw a kind of documentary where there was a guy who just kept finding meaning in numbers. And I thought this guy is like holding on by a thread. To this theory. Like that's all he's got is like, oh, I just saw two threes. I thought you've got to find something.

You've got to find something more grounded than that. Yeah. Let me tell you this though. Do you like that as a beginning to a sentence? Yeah. Let me tell you this though. I do actually. Maybe I could have a podcast called Let me tell you this though.

Let me tell you this though. That is quite good. I did have an idea. Can I tell you my idea for a podcast? Yeah. I had an idea for a podcast a couple of years ago called Silence. Each week, me and a celebrity guest sit in silence. Wouldn't it be good? This is what people need. This is interesting. But there is something that happens when silence is elongated, right? Go on. Because in TV, they do this thing where they go,

oh, we need to get a minute of background. Yeah. So everyone on this set, whether it be six people or 20, have to stand in silence while the sound man records the atmospheric track. I swear there is no part of the day where people are more uncomfortable. And I'm like, it's okay.

There's a picture there, pretend to look at that. You could look at your hands or it's okay. Not look at it, pretend to look at it. Yeah, because everyone's all like, it's okay. There's a picture there, pretend to look at that. You could look at your hands. Not look at it, pretend to look at it. Yeah, because everyone's all like, it's okay. And it's interesting what panic it creates. And silence is, I think, what we are most afraid of as people. Silence in our heads, silence in conversation, what do you think small talks about? But I'm surprised that you feel okay in that moment. Because you don't know until you become a grown up.

And so I sort of taught myself to not be afraid of it. Oh, that's good. I think you can't be as an interviewer. You can't be as an interviewer because after silence, that's when the best shit comes. I once was at a party, sat on a sofa with a boy. He was chatting and chatting and chatting. And finally I said, you know, it happens in the silence and we kissed.

See? See? There's power in acknowledging the silence. And how long would the silence, the new podcast with Simon Amstel run for? How long do you think you'd expect you and Tom Hanks to sit in silence? Oh it'd be like yeah an hour or more depending on the quality of the silence. If it was a really good silence we could go to an hour 45 but you do have to leave people wanting more. More silence? Yeah you gotta kill your darlings. Okay last question it's the last question. Simon what's a good word for last? There is a word that my boyfriend uses

that I really don't like. Oh, come on, he's a writer. Yeah, what does he say? The... Hang on, great word for final. Hang on. Ultimate terminal, oh dear. That's it, the terminal.

Terminal. The terminal question. On spirituality. Hi, Nikita. Hi, Simon. This is Miranda. I am in South East London and I have a question for you about spirituality. So I count myself as an atheist but a few years ago I had an experience that made me

question that a little bit. I basically was running in Bushey Park and there were deer in Bushey Park and I got too close to some female deer and they started basically stampeding me and it was very scary and my thought process went to oh my god I might die and when this was happening they were getting so close to me I was so scared, I literally thought, if there is a God, please save me. And I actually got saved by some park rangers, which was great.

It could have been divine intervention, but it could also just been human intervention. But yeah, I was really surprised by my thought process. And maybe it was the last resort of me thinking if there is a god please save me. But my question is have you ever had an experience or surprised yourself or changed your spiritual beliefs yet in a way that was unexpected or surprising? Thanks so much. Bye. Bye! It's not my story, it's Oprah's. Is that okay? All right, you do Oprah, I'll do Maya Angelou, then we can all go home. So, Oprah told a story, it's available on YouTube, about the way she gets the film The Color Purple.

I know this. And it's just so bloody brilliant. And I won't bore you with it because she tells it better than me. Really? And it is her story to tell. But there is something about I learned something in it that nothing else has taught me. I mean, I feel like there are 10 real lessons in life, like let go, have courage, be kind. It's not about you. No one's thinking about you as much as you're thinking about yourself, etc. And we learn all these things through, you know, fables, folktales and experience when we get a bit older.

And the letting go one, I'd actually been given a very hefty book by Phoebe Oliver on New Year's Eve, 2019, just before we all went into the weirdest year of our lives and couldn't do it, couldn't do it. Then I listened to it on audiobook, couldn't let go of a few things. And then I watched this Oprah thing in 2021,

and she just explained it different and explained kind of what she did with her letting go, which is she didn't just let go of a feeling, she met it, then she gave this feeling the worst outcome it could have. This scenario, sorry, in her life, which was Alfred Woodard, another actress getting this role. And she said, I will not just learn to let it go, I will learn to let that woman have that part. I will then be able to go and watch the film with her in it, and I will have grace and I will be happy for her. And I will say she got the part and I did it.

And that's what's happened and I'm okay with it. And the minute, the minute she gets close to that feeling after crying and trying to meet it over and over again, the minute she says that at the fat camp that she's at trying to lose weight because she thinks she didn't get it because she was overweight, the woman calls and says,

uh, there's something on the phone and it's Steven Spielberg offering her the part. She wasn't not meant to get the part. She was meant to live in the idea of it not being hers and be okay with that. Let it go. Cause if it's meant to be, it will come back. But you have to be brave enough to let fucking shit go.

And that taught me that better than anything. And I just, I love her for that story. She brought me up. You brought Oprah into my life in a way. No. Yeah, you quoted her. I used to bunk PE and go home and watch Oprah. Oh my God. And I learned and go home and watch Oprah. Oh my god. And I learned everything I know is from Oprah.

Oh, God, we were so meant to meet. Yeah. I'm just all, because everything I learned, but only I was quite a lot later, 20 years later, it's from Oprah. She talks a lot about gratitude as well, Oprah. And I think that's very powerful. I know, but you have to really mean it.

Well, why don't we see if we can sum it up some gratitude? What, right now? Yeah. It shouldn't be too difficult, should it? I'm truly grateful that you said yes to speak to me today and to cover for Lil, because you know us both so well. And it's not a situation I would have ever thought would happen, that I'd have a show with Lily and then you'd step in and that's how we'd work together again. I didn't think any of this would happen so I'm really grateful for today. I really am. I am as well. I don't know if it's just like ego in me. I sort of want to end with some like major bit of wisdom you know.

But you've been pretty good. Been quite wise. Yeah absolutely. I wouldn't want you to sort of bring down the wisdom that's already been shared by trying to give us something now. No forcing here. But what about this? Okay. I forgot when you're like this. You're fun when you're like this. Like what? Like, hang on, hang on. We might have something. We might have something. I feel like we've been hinting at it. We've been sort of gently moving towards it, or

at least in my head, I'm wondering if this is going to be where we come to. But we want to be happy, right? We want to be happy. And I think, no, I feel, it's available here and now, as all the great spiritual teachers keep telling us. It's here right now. And I feel it as I look at my beautiful friend, Makita Oliver, on this screen, and her smile, and her eyes, and it's here. And it's a miracle. And now I'm sort of reminded of the miracle

that I somehow transported my body from Gantz Hill, Essex, to Soho, London, where we recorded Pop World in that first year. Yeah. And got to meet you and somehow by some absurd miracle made a show that was good enough that 20 years later the BBC would want to see... Would want to drag us out! ...to talk to each other, which we would love to do anyway. Yes, yes!

That's it! Happiness is right here. We're happy right now, aren't we? We're happy right now. Happiness is right here, hold on. Yes. Hold on! If we could just, if we could stop talking over each other, maybe we could really get

that chemistry going again. Happiness is right here. It's right here. That's a beautiful way. We're alive, we're breathing in and out. In London. We live in London. Imagine where we could have ended up.

I'm not saying other places in the country that we don't like, but places where the laws are more complicated for people like me and you. For people like me and you. I don't know. No, that's such a good sentence. We could have ended up in a place where the laws are more complicated for people like me and you. That's a good end.

The theme for next week's Listen Bitch is... Flatmates. Bloody flatmates. Oh, I've had a few. Oh, I've had a few. Shout out to all my flatmates. And I know I was going to apologise, but no, I think they should apologize to me. The number to send your voice notes to is of course, like every other week, 080304090,

080304090. I could just keep going forever about just how happy I am. I'm just so happy. Stop it! The way we found, not the way, we didn't find each other. We weren't looking for each other. We were just thrown together by who? Channel 4. Is that how we end this? To say thank you channel 4? I don't think so. I was moving towards God, but we could say channel 4. Channel 4, thank you and God. Thank you for all your hard work, God and channel 4, to

get us together at that one moment in time in 2000. Okay. Simon Amstel. Makeda Oliver. Hang on, let's do middle names. Oh shit. Simon. Don't Google it. Mark. It's Mark. Very good, very good. It is it. Oh my god, I do know you, thank god. And Edward? Makita Billie Oliver. There's another one.

Oh. That one that my dad gave me. Makita Billie Sarah? Alexandra. Makita Billie Alexandra Oliver. It's too many. It is. Too many. Okay, Simon, I'm so, I love you so much and just, good luck with all your endeavors. I love you too. Good luck with all of yours. Thank you, Simon. Istel, I love you so much and just good luck with all your endeavours.

I love you too. Good luck with all of yours. Thank you, Simon Amstel, I love you. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. This is a Persephoneca production for BBC Sounds. Do you ever feel like you're the only one navigating life's ups and downs? Well guess what? You're not alone. It's Anna Richardson here and my podcast It Can't Just Be Me helps you realise that you're not the only one. Join me as I sit down with incredible celebrity guests and experts to dive into life's biggest topics and covering their very own it can't just be me moments. Expect revelations, honest anecdotes and a few

laughs about the challenges and obstacles that life throws at us. Listen on BBC Sounds. Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by. And in 2017, Miranda, a university tutor from London, joins a yoga school that promises profound transformation. It felt a really safe and welcoming space. After the yoga classes I felt amazing. But soon that calm welcoming atmosphere leads to something far darker. A journey that leads to allegations of grooming, trafficking and exploitation across international borders. I don't have my passport, I don't have my phone, I don't have my bank cards, I have nothing.

The passport being taken, the being in a house and not feeling like they can leave. World of Secrets is where untold stories are unveiled and hidden realities are exposed. In this new series, we're confronting the dark side of the wellness industry, where the hope of a spiritual breakthrough gives way to disturbing accusations.

You just get sucked in so gradually and it's done so skillfully that you don't realize. And it's like this, the secret that's there. I wanted to believe that, you know, that whatever they were doing, even if it seemed gross to me, was for some spiritual reason that I couldn't even understand. Revealing the hidden secrets of a global yoga network.

I feel that I have no other choice. The only thing I can do is to speak about this and to put my reputation and everything else on the line. I want truth and justice and for other people to not be hurt, for things to be different in the future. To bring it into the light and almost alchemize some of that evil stuff that went on and take back the power. World of Secrets, season six, The Bad Guru. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.