Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! Nostalgia Used to be an Illness

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens answer your questions about the things that scare us.Next week, we want to hear your questions about ORGASMS. Please send us a voice note on WhatsApp: [phone]. Or, if you like, send us an email: [e-mail] episode contains very strong language, adult themes and discussion around phobias. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes and a warning that we are talking about phobias, which has triggered me so it could trigger others. Welcome to listen. Bitch. Oh, go ahead. I get it in. Listen. Listen. Bitch. Yes, welcome to listen, bitch. From my home to yours. Thank God. Can you imagine if we had to go to a studio to do this? Yeah, it would be. It's just long enough. It's a long thing. I love doing it at home. I just want to talk about my spectacular tea cupboard. I make the most amazing teas. I mix teas. And I really want to give this advice to people to mix bags. So like, I think Nana taught me this. Or maybe I taught Nana. But it's like, like right now I'm having a love and a chamomile tea bag. and then I take one little rose hip and put that in as well. It's just the most, like making your own tea for exactly how you feel that moment. And I just took a picture of my teacub and I thought,

I might send that to Jordan so he knows how I'm living. Because it's, I'm very proud of my tea cupboard. You're quite literally exceptional. Try it today, though. Try it today, Jordan. Listen, I'm fucking with this shit. The two bags I get, it's the rose touch. That's really what.

That's what really makes it Makita. It wouldn't be Makita without... That's right. Little Rose touch. Yeah, yeah, the rose touch. I fuck with it. Without interrupting you. It wouldn't be Macquita without interrupting me.

No, not as whole. No, no, that's impressive. I shall get onto my tea mixing. And the other thing I just want to say about tea as well, by the way, this listen bitch theme is not tea. But we should do tea. We should do tea. It's also really great to just use herbs.

You don't need tea bags. If you have rosemary and thyme, like, rosemary is so good for the. mind and the brain. I was making some Rosemary tea for my 96 year old uncle yesterday. And he was like, remember, Rosemary's so good for the brain. I was like, I know, Uncle John, you told me. So if you've just got herbs, you don't even need a tea bag. Anyway, we can get on with this bitch now. Love that. Tea Corner's done. We are talking about the things that scare us. If you're an avid listener and listen to last week's show, Jordan gave us a couple of

clue to the scary, scary thing that him and Jade were going to be for Halloween. I couldn't guess it. So could you reveal now? Let's do the noise one more time. The sound was. The fuck. And just to say, our producer Nat got it in a heartbeat and now they both know and I don't. I'm not in their cool gang.

But we're going to reveal it now. What were you and Jay dressed for for Halloween? Dressed as? I was dressed as Gizmo, and she was dressed as the Gremlin who proceeds to drink some kind of magical potion and entrap the moody boss in Gremlin's 2 and marry him. Is that what happens in Gremlin's? The Gremlin's 2 is fucking insane. Like, it's actually incredible. I heard Gremlin 2 is better than Gremlin's 1.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so into it. Because for me as well It's the turn of the decade Like Gremlin's Tuesday, 90s I struggle with 80s stuff I hear you

But this was like 1990 This is like on the And I can sense it I can feel it You can sense the turn There is some atrocious CGI In the second one Like genuinely awful

But I like that It's awful Because the main thing about it Is that it is a puppet They're real Incredibly designed puppets Yes exactly No CGI here

It's got hents and energy And that's something that I really really loved about. I think that's why we probably love our childhood 90s films, like something like The Never Ending Story. Like the puppetry was absolutely amazing. And I think we're going to get that back. Yeah, well, that's good

because Gremlins did used to scare the fuck out of me. So that works well. That's how about our first question for this week's Listen, Bitch. We're talking about the things that scare us, but we're doing it in a safe space. Amy Kean and Jordan, so Love Pod. This is Chrissy from Dorset. Messing in about moments of things that scare us. I found even since I was a really young child

If I see something in a program Or something that just like visually scares me I'm not physically scared But I'll find that my brain will store that image Whether it be someone's face or situation And it'll wait till I'm like in a vulnerable place I either like so I works my late at night And I'm locking up in the dark

A place where you'd be vulnerable And then my brain goes for no reason You've not even thought about it And the image itself never scared you in the first place But it'll give me that image Like for a while when I was locking up at work or like I see Stanley Tucci from the lovely bones. I mean, it was fine.

I just then thought of him in the Devil Wears Prada and it all went away. What my question to you guys is, does your brain hold on to images that at the time didn't necessarily scare you? But then for months on end it, when you're in a vulnerable situation and it'll feed up that said image

just to try and, I don't know, scare you more. Love what you do. Take care. Bye. What a brilliant question, but also really well asked. I really enjoyed that. I went on the journey with that question and I'm with you with Stanley Tucci

and the lovely bones. Have you ever seen that? No. It's a brilliant book and it's about a girl in the 70s that is murdered by her neighbour and Stanley Tucci's the killer and he is so scary.

Yeah. Oh my goodness me. I actually forgot it was him the other day and I looked it up and I was like oh my God he plays that child killer so I'm with you babe I never want to see him in my head when I'm locking up at night.

This is, my answer is difficult because it did It didn't not scare me when I first saw it. It scared the shit out of me. And it is stored and it comes for me. And it is Barb from Twin Peaks. I don't know whether you've ever seen. Yeah, I just watched season one of Twin Peaks.

Hold on. So what, so what, what, no, have I seen one and two? I can't remember. Twin Peaks is, it was good. Who's Barb's? So Bob, no, Barb, Bob. Oh, Bob. Bob is what she turns her molesting abusive father into in her head

because she can't deal with the fact that it's her father. So Bob is like this... Thank you for ruining Twin Peaks for me. I hope you have me. I hope everyone's had 35 years to watch it. Okay, it's hardly a plot, spoiler. Yeah, but Mekita, what season is that? I think it's the first season.

And there's this one scene. My God, me and my friend Gemma Barron watched it, and it scared us. We were like 10. And it's Bob, and he's like in the corner. I actually am not going to be able to sleep tonight in my house if I say this. He's in the corner, and he just does this like, and it's so dark so that's my stored image of fear yeah the tough thing with this question is the fact

that the image wasn't initially scary that that's hard I have one vague memory of one of the first times I probably got flu as a kid you know you start like hallucinating or whatever and I had like a really vivid double dream obviously double dreams are pretty scary and so I was in my bedroom had the flu my mom popped out to get something for me i'm assuming you know like whether it would be like manuka honey or something to help me with it ginger ginger that kind of thing and i'd fallen into like a sleep like hallucinatory state and woke up and my mom wasn't in the house and i was shouted for her and i was like mom my mom and there's no response and i was like oh maybe she's still out and then i heard these like footsteps coming up the stairs and i was like oh okay my mom's in and then the door

opens and it was like this huge Bart Simpson, like massive Bart Simpson. No, that's so trippy and horrible. Like a human-sized Bart Simpson. No, Jordan, you were really scaring me actually. That's horrible. And then he was like, hello, Jordan or something. And I freaked out and I remember I then woke up, because obviously I thought I was awake. I then woke up and hit my head because I had like a bunk bed that was, I was an only child,

but underneath was like a desk. and like a workplace for me to do my homework and then I had this little single bed above it I would like bang my head because I was so freaked out but that obviously I loved Bart Simpson so that was freaky for me. Do you talk to me the other day about lucid dreaming? Is lucid dreaming when you think that you're out of the dream

but it's still a dream? No, no, no, no, no. Okay, because I do get that sometimes. No, that's a double dream. Oh, that's a double dream. And also sleep paralysis. I get that. That is fucked.

No, yo. Have I told you about that? Oh, I mean, no, but I've had it. No, you need to understand. I suffer from that. I haven't had it in years. Like, it comes for me so badly. A lot of it, because drugs, druggy stuff, that doesn't help.

Oh, that's why it hasn't happened in a few years. For me, it was just drugs, man. Oh, because I'm like, why hasn't it happened in like five or six years? But it's so, I think I have already said this on the podcast, but I don't care. I have to say it again, it manifests to me in G-Force, so I can't, like, I can't get up. and then there's always a furry male animal, male presence behind me. Does that have red eyes? No, no, no, I can't see it.

I can only feel it. And it has long nails and it slowly puts its long nail down my arm. And I'm like, you can't get out. It's like the pressure is it's the, it's so fucked up. It's horrendous. I don't understand where that comes from. What is that? It would just be like a transition.

I don't know. I don't know with the neurology of it. It's a transition, like a state of transition. You're stuck in limbo, I guess. Yeah, it's a limbo. I've had that before where I, this creature with red eyes and like a long black body. And I'd be in a normal dream, like a usual dream. And then the creature would just walk in front of my vision.

No. No, this is real shit. It was just walk in front of the dream. And then that's it. And I was stuck. And I would be like, no, not this fucking. guy again. Not this creature again. And I remember there was one time when I woke up and I had my partner at the time was next to me. I don't even remember my first flat in Kensal like before the one,

maybe you didn't see that one actually. Anyway, like I heard the door get booted open. When I say like booted open like that, like towards my bed and I freaked out and I grabbed all I could do was grab and I grabbed my the girl's hair. That was in bed of me and she screamed. It's obviously sick freaked out. And the scream, the scream took me out of it. And I like woke up in a panic and she was like, what the fuck? And I was like, I'm so sorry that I couldn't. I couldn't, that's all I could do.

But where you were, something was about to come for you. Something had just gone, come through the door towards the bed. This is going to be an awful episode for people. No, but it's, I'm sorry to freak everyone out. But it's fine. It's Halloween time. That's why we're doing it. It's fine.

Isn't it crazy what our brains can do to us? Right. So can I just say, to be more positive. A lucid dream is phenomenal. The first time I ever had a lucid dream I was on a blow-up mattress in Edinburgh. I remember this vividly because it was like, why am I even having,

I don't even know what it was about that environment that stimulated this. But one of my mates was doing a show in Edinburgh. I was slamming it with everyone. You know, people live in houses of like 25 when that's going on. I remember like, my God, sorry, I'm just getting it back.

I was in this banquet hall with black and white checkered floors and all the cheesy, you know, like the gold plates and whatever else. I remember being sat at this, then I went, God, this is a cool dream, isn't it? And then I went, oh my God, I'm in a dream. And then you look at your hands, right?

So usually you can't see your hands. Oh, you're far too, you're, fuck. So you're far too aware. No, no, you're not too aware. A lucid dream is knowing that you're in a dream and you're able to control it. Right, okay. So this is what's crazy is, I then was like,

oh my God, I'm in a fucking dream. This is the dopest. And I was like, okay, oh, I don't know how long I've got, I don't know how much long I've got the time I've got in this dream. So I went, what I'm going to do? What I'm going to do? And I went, I'm going to fly. Obviously, I've never flown before.

Yes, I see. Is that any what I would do? Right. So they had these big French windows. And I like ran down this banquet room, opened the windows, jumped off the balcony. And then what was so funny was, I then lifted into the air.

But this is what's so mad. And the craziest thing is I looked this up, and there were like whole threads about this, is that I didn't know how to fly because no one had taught me. Do you get what I'm saying? No, this is real shit. No, because I've flown in dreams

and I can always just do it. Oh, and you know you're flying? No, this would be me in a dream rather than a lucid dream. So I always going up and down like a daddy long legs. You know, you know how they fly like this? I was going up and down like that. I remember like being obviously over the moon

that I was flying, but I remember thinking the next day like, damn, I need like lucid dream flying lessons. Like I don't know how to... But this is a thing. And I have like three or four after... afterwards and I always got a little bit better. It's right.

Okay, so, but you can't induce a lucid dream. You can't be like a fancy having one tonight. This is what we were supposed to talk about. This is what the man's been developing. There's like law about it. There's like old school folklore like supposedly Dali. He trained his brain to be able to enter a lucid dream state. So he would fall asleep with his hand on a spoon, like next on top of a cup.

And when you'd lose consciousness, the spoon would drop and make a sound. Ding, which means that he would know he was a sound. sleep in the dream. Interesting. So then he would live these, you know, these dreams. And I guess people would then theorise that he painted what he saw because obviously he was so surreal. God, Jordan, I love that you know that.

That's so interesting. I know so much random shit. That's not random though. I think that's just the stuff we should all know. No, but I spin out about, again, this is another thing I can't believe. Like, I can't believe, yeah, that people who go to sleep, have these wild dreams and then they'll wake up. and then just like go to work and no one talks about it.

No, it's so true. No, it's like you've just been in another dimension, you know, and this is the other crazy thing is because symbols are so powerful, I could dream the same dream as somebody in the Middle East or in fucking Asia or East Asia or whatever that it is or Oceana. And we've had a similar stream and we've both concluded. Like there are things that are universally understood, like a stampede is about emotional loss of control.

I've had that. I had that when I was going through. heartbreak. I had one dream where I couldn't, I was trying to take a picture and I couldn't get in focus. You know, these things all have like real, universal meanings. Yes, and birds, people associate with freedom, like da-da-da-da, there's all, you know, you can get a bit airy-fairy, but I just find that fascinating. And no one will just wake up and be like, what did you dream about? That should be the first question. We ask each other. The fuck did you just dream last night, you freak. What happened in your head? What adventures did you go on? Yeah, what the

Hell. That's good. We did already do dreams as a listen, bitch. Fuck! But I think we definitely got it into the things that scare us. And that's good because I think lucid dreaming, you could see it as something. I'm trying to definitely answer this lady's question.

You could see it as something that didn't scare you, but it has the ability to scare you. It depends how you approach finding yourself in lucid dreaming. No, my answer to the lady's question is Bart Simpson. Okay, Bart Simpson. Actually, that's yours. That's going to terrify me for the rest of my life. A huge Bart Simpson.

It's crazy. Guys are so fucked up. It's fucked up. Oh, fuck. All right, let's have another... Get us out of this scary place. Can I have another question, please? Hi, Makita and Jordan.

It's Chess here, and you'll probably hear my little baby Willow in the background. We are messaging from South London. Yep, Willow's chiming in. My question for you guys, so basically, back in the blockbuster days, I remember I'd watched scary movie at my dad's house when I was probably about eight or nine. and I'd watched my stepsisters who were obviously way cooler than me because I was with them

I thought it was really cool, really funny so for my 10th birthday I asked my mom if I could watch a scary movie two so we went to blockbuster got a scary movie two the first scene is like the exorcist booth

and oh my God I was so scared we had to turn it off and I'm not joking you for like years I couldn't go into a blockbuster because the scary movie two DVD was there I would love to know, have either of you seen something that's supposed to be funny or kind of like accidentally scared yourselves?

Love you lots. Bye. Bart Simpson. Jordan may just be answering Bart Simpson for every question this week. No, no, no, no. Come on. I can't believe this lady was scared about the spoof version. Like, wait until you actually see the exorcist.

Yeah. Jesus. I mean, that used to happen a lot. Films would be on TV and you'd accidentally see them and you're fucked. Yeah. I think I watched Psycho when I was nine. I said that before, didn't I. No, you didn't tell us about Psycho.

Oh, yeah. I watched Psycho when I was really young. Is Psycho scary, though? Listen, the only reason I remember watching as a kid is because my core memory is when she gets stabbed in the shower, I remember thinking, I don't have a shower, so... I'll be fine. I remember if you only had a bath. This isn't something that I need to be concerned about.

I remember being like, wow. Is that what a shower looks like? Oh, come on. Come on. But the actual, no, but like, it is quite scarring, seeing, like, the blood fall onto the shower floor and stuff. Like, I remember Hitchcock, he was ahead of his time and that shit. So I probably would have stuck with me.

But also, I had, like, one of my early friends had a brother who was just totally corrupting, made us watch 13 ghosts from when we were like, I must have been 10, 11. But I mean, like, but even now, right, I don't really like. scary films. I'm not, I'm not really interested in having, like, being made to be terrified, to feel terrified. And even now, because it's Halloween, like everything on TV, like any app that you use to watch films, whether it be Disney, Apple, Prime, Netflix, everything's got a section right now that's like scary films. And I'm like, I would never just sit and watch some terrifying film, like, even with other people. Meet Jade. So it's all that Jade does.

How can she handle that? She's obsessed with horror. So people like to be scared. And I think, think it's an important part of the human condition that likes to be taken close to that feeling knowing that you can come back and you're in your cozy sitting. I think there's something about being scared within safety that people kind of enjoy, I guess, but I'm not into it. There's four things that have scared me, like, irrationally as a child that make no sense. I can just list them if you want. That is kind of the answer.

They're not supposed to be funny. but I just can't explain to give me this like really really intense feeling of loneliness like an existential deep like painful loneliness one of them is the saxophone solo and careless whisper

okay it haunts you obviously you find it haunting sorry it got peak obviously around the tragic passing of man like George which was devastating and I you know it was tough

obviously it's a bangor I understand it's a classic it's something about the reverb on the saxophone it just makes me feel alone when I was a kid watching like holiday adverts give me a profound sense of learning this there'd be adverts to Cyprus and there would be like all these shots of Cyprus but no one would be in the shots

and it would just feel like it was a really weird place to go and then sometimes there'd be like a couple at dinner like on the sunset and it just confused me and it made me feel sad I played a game with a Dolphin. I think it's called Echo, the dolphin, on a computer when I was a kid. And I couldn't get him through the first hole to like actually explore the rest of the ocean. So I just swam in circles around this like tiny little underground cave. And I think I like ended up just. It sent you a bit mad. Yeah. That was really sad. And then lastly, there's a game called Mario Sunshine that I played on my gamekeeper as a kid. But actually the whole concept is the game is to run around this city like cleaning graffiti. Oh, what? Like doing things for the community? That's nice. Yeah, no, but I love graffiti. And also the music was weird and it made me feel sad.

Okay. What a weird array of mixture of things. The sound is the sounds thing. It has sparked, yeah, that sparked something for me. WWF scares me a lot because when I was a kid, Theo, loved it. And we were in Canada visiting our great-grandma. I found Canada a bit... That trip was quite difficult. I don't know what. No, I loved it, but anyway,

I'd seen an advert for America's Most Wanted and they did like a reconstruction of it so I suddenly felt really scared in Canada at it being near America and then we watched WWF and there was this like deep storyline going on where the Undertaker had like buried the Ultimate Warrior

and then the Ultimate Warrior there was a shot of him like coming out of the coffin all angry and ready for revenge and I just found it all extremely scary and I kept thinking that the Ultimate Warrior was coming for me at night time on our Canada trip

but I've been told that the Ultimate Warrior is actually a hero in WWF and I shouldn't fear him Oh, well here's one more thing that's supposed to be funny but is terrifying

David Williams My mom will like that Oh my God I genuinely I thought I'd be all like Yeah let's talk about the things that scare us But I feel all like

shivery weird and like I need a minute I'm going to go make some of my classic Makita tea, Jordan so let's have a break Welcome back to this very special episode of Listen Bitch where we're talking about the things that scare us

and completely freaking me out Next question Yeah next question Hi Jordan and Makita My name's Lewis On your topic of what scares me I've been really trying to ponder and think about this, I haven't, there's so many things that scare me currently in the world,

but if we were to go on like base spheres, everything's like wasps, bees, and tiny holes, I have a cryptophobia. But in other terms, what scares me is change. I constantly find myself looking back and thinking, oh, why can't we go back to that time? That was a simpler time. But that's not how the world works. So yeah, that's what scares me. What about you guys? Why are you laughing? But I can't believe he just said that of all the things.

Like, please no. What do you mean? It's so common. And you always said it last week and you didn't. And it was just so funny to watch you in real time. Because I see, that's what happens, Jordan. Someone says loads of little holes and then I see them everywhere on bodies, on faces. It's a fucking...

Okay, don't think about it. I can't even talk about trip phobia. I know you can't. You literally avoided talking about it last week. Makita, Mikita, it's fine. It's good to know that so many people find it, suffer with it. What was he talking about before that?

Oh yeah, he's scared of change. Nostalgia. Yeah, don't be scared of change. Well, nostalgia used to be an illness, didn't it? Really? Yeah. I don't, diagnose illness, what, to be obsessed with nostalgia. A medical, that's interesting, that's really interesting.

Let's add this to the repertoire of useless information that Jordan knows. It's not useless. deeply interesting and more people should know nostalgia was a how did you say it sorry a medical illness it was considered an illness so basically like back in the day if you were somebody who constantly thought about the past you were considered mentally ill right so if you were just talking about things that were happened there's even a slight mention of it in um in mr sloane he says it one of the characters in entertaining mr sloan says you were taking an unhealthy interest in the past that's interesting because i am a bit of a fucking nostalgia freak but

I think it's really helped miss me. Yeah. I am. Also, it's harder for us to not be because everything is recorded now. Yeah, that's why I like about a Polaroid. Polaroids are so funny. Like, you take a picture on a Polaroid

and people are like, oh, remember 10 minutes ago? It's like something about it. Just makes you feel like nostalgic, even though it was just now. I think that's why people love them. I want to get a Polaroid camera for the Christmas season. I love a Polaroid.

Yeah, nostalgia can be cool. I mean, like, it's interesting. There's actually a great. great book called Time Shelter that I read. It's this like wacky book that it's quite hard actually towards the end but the concept is basically that this doctor ends up creating rooms specific to time periods to help old people deal with Alzheimer's or dementia so that you can take them to this building and then these rooms are stuck within time periods but then basically people become so engaged with specific time periods that the building ends up building out and getting bigger and bigger

until it becomes like A little mini world But like borough level Yeah so then there's like boroughs and cities And eventually countries That vote to stay in particular time periods And then people police those time periods Oh this is a book

Yeah This is a book I was like where did this happen? It's a book It's quite an interesting idea But it's interesting because it plays With the idea of like Are there any specific time periods

That we would rather be in You know a lot of people think Oh like for me I wish in my head the 60s I've completely idealised the 60s. I don't know what, you know, the actual reality of living in the 60s, especially as a black person, might be nuts.

As a young black man, yeah, yeah. I know, but there's also that kind of immediate injection of, it just, the response to the 60s makes me want to be in the 60s, if that makes sense. The response being like the establishment of like neoliberalism and everything to combat whatever the fuck people were vibing with because they were just like, let's do trippy drugs and fuck each other and everyone was like, well, let's put a stop to that.

Also that I think the 80s as well, when like Garfield and Herm and your dad were young black men. Yes, it was, I know this from Aiman, and I know this from Garf. And I remember my uncle Sean went through it to be a black man, a young black man in, I mean, I'm talking about London, because that's where Garfield was, but in Britain was a violent thing. No, thanks. You had to be, no, thank you. You had to really be on, have your wits about you, shall we say.

but can you imagine those early raves like lovers rock that's 90 oh sorry okay all right 70 okay yeah yeah yeah I want 90s 70s late 70s early 80s we've had this we've had this I want 90s we had the 90s anyway that's this is not things that scare us anymore so I guess I guess a quick one for you Makita is like is there a kind of abstract concept that's scared you know I mean we're just talking about fears here like he's saying he's scared of maybe change or you know the fact that the past has gone. Is there something like that for you? No. I think I'm really quite scared of death and I think

that's quite valid. Right. Okay. Let's say you like the idea of dying or like is it the feeling of dying. The fact you're not here anymore. Yes. No, the idea, the idea of dying, the fact that you're not here anymore. The idea that it will happen to me too. It scares me a lot. It's not this thing that happens to other people. When I was younger, I used to ask Carly, what do you think happens behind people's eyes and you should just send him. What do you mean, you weirdo? What a question? I was like, what's who's looking?

What do you mean? Like, what is it? Why are we looking? Who are we looking at? What is that? What's the, I'm trying to prod it like, what is our spirit? What does it mean? Oh, yeah.

And that sent him. Yeah. There's too much far. He was like, no, I can't handle that. Steve. Yesterday I kind of thought, isn't it weird the way we look at things with our eyes? And it just like, we just breath.

Like, you know, if you go too quick, to the right, like I'm used to that blur. But like, isn't it weird that we have these kind of weird little cameras in our, anyway? No, Maciah, it's nuts. And also, it's even more crazy, is, I think, unless I'm there's something crazy, like, when we receive the reflection of the light

in front of us, it's like upside down or something, and then I like brain flips it or some shit. Well, going back into that brilliant brain. The thing that sends me is, where do we see, we've already had this conversation, so I remember. Come on, though. We've already spoken about Affantasia on this podcast

but I'm saying where do we see our memories if I say can you remember that time you can see it where stop

like where is it is it is it like the picture book of our minds if we watch that bloody brain show I'm sure it would say the bit that

oh god it's so weird though okay let's have let's have a few more questions let's have a penultimatey Mumu Hi, Makita and Jordan. This is Rachel from Tambridge Wales. I'm going to preface this fear with a bit of fan girling.

I love you both. I've been a fan of this podcast from the very start. Makita, Pop World, everything. Love you. Jordan, massive fan. Saw you at some set house. So fan girling done. Fear.

Pigeons. I'm so sorry. They fucking hate them. They make me duck whenever I'm near them. I feel like they. run London. They're so bold and the flapping just gets me. So that's my fear. I am sorry. So my question is, how do you recommend I overcome this fear and fears in general? What are your words of wisdom? Love you both. Bye.

Do some research. Do some research on pigeons. That's a very bold question to ask such a deep pigeon lover, especially after like you're a fan of Jordans and your news would get him. Wow, she came through today. This is my fear. Someone questioning loves of mine on a podcast, that's my fear. Getting to my face. To my face.

Oh, God. The fear of a pigeon, the fear of a bird, it's very real. For fear of a bird, I can accept. Specifically pigeons, I can't accept so much because... Name is scared of birds. Yeah. Look, research. If we're actually talking practically in a very...

like immediate sense, how can we combat fears? It is learning about them, really. To know more, yeah. Just in my experience, research just helped, but I'm obviously not a medical professional. No, you're not, Jordan. I will not call you doctor. Like, obviously with, like, someone's scared of flying,

someone can literally explain why flying is safe. And then you're going to be less scared because you're going to lean into that when you feel it. Obviously, rationally, like, if I look at, sorry, I don't mean to trigger anybody, trigger warning, but if I look at a plane in the sky, I'm like, what is going on?

Like, what is this metal bird? No, I agree. If you think about it too much, yeah, that we actually are all just getting into and then going thousands of feet up and going across oceans. What? But I'm like, so I had to like learn, you know,

to figure out like, you know, learn about air pockets, air temperature, pressure, turbulence you can learn about it's really straight, you know, you learn about it and then it's less scary. So curiosity kills the cat or the bird. Well, with pigeons, like, for example, yeah. For example, like the things I think we associate with pigeons

that are like in a vert comers nasty You can just like read up about Like for example, their claws, their talons, I don't know Yeah The reason why they're deformed a lot of the time Is because they get tangled up in human hair And then it like cuts off the circulation And their toes just drop off

It's not like they're just so disgusting And they eat each other's toes It's like they're trying to survive In a disgusting world And that's why we think they're disgusting That's good Do you know what I mean? That's good

They're trying to survive in a disgusting world and we think they're disgusting. It's actually us. It literally is us. Like if you saw a pigeon in any other context, if you saw it in like a beautiful meadow, you would have to be like, oh, what horrendous birds.

Do you know what? There's this really beautiful kind of like lake next to my mum and dad's house and I did this long walk was any up to their house for Sunday lunch the other day. And there were a lot of pigeons. Yeah. I did go, oh God.

And then I was like, remember, remember. And then I was like, then they were singing around me. It was like fucking the sound of music. I was like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, this is actually beautiful. They're a vibe.

So a perspective change and a curiosity, which will then lead... Have you ever got overfilled with research? No, because as I said, with trip phobia, it's really hard. When I got really scared about trip phobia, I was like, this is really scary because I've never had a phobia. And a phobia is so in your head that what I learned is that it really is up to you. Like, you've got... to just turn.

I can't even say I had to like do work to change neural pathways. Yeah. It was really, and it's still not completely gone. I just have to, I've got tools now to turn or to break certain things that would come together that would upset me. And the interesting thing is it's not a fear. I don't know whether you have any phobias, but it's, it doesn't, I don't go, oh, I'm scared. I have a visceral anxiety reaction. And also I found out the other day, my grandma had.

Because I saw something and went, oh, I hate looking at things like that. And my nan went, me too. No way. And I was like, oh, fuck. Wow. Like a generational thing. That's all I can say about that because I feel sick. So, final question.

Hi, Makita and Jordan. It's Molly from near Portsmouth. My newest fear may be adults going into the baby food section and eating that out of choice. That was a bit of a weird one. Love your podcast. Thank you for all of the discussions that you're having. They're so important. And I look forward to it each week.

Bye. I actually had someone come up through the street the other day and said, I totally get it. I eat apple puree as well. Apple sauce. So I'm sorry that that scares you. Okay. What is the actual question?

It's not a question. It's just a statement. It's not a question. It's just a statement. What's your newest fear? The question is what's your newest fear? Because Haas was built last week from your ridiculousness. That was about the last week.

New fear unlocked. That's the question. What's the newest unlocked fear? I don't know what my newest fear is. We've also had a lot of messages from people saying they love eating baby food. Okay. Let's wrap it up because I feel like I'm just living in a perpetual state of fear now. I've got a day ahead of me.

I've got work to do. the theme for next week's listen bitch is quite interesting so i someone sent me like the first advert that lily and i ever did for miss me it's so weird it really doesn't that it really isn't miss me like but anyway it was the beginning and we said oh things we're going to talk about jungle orgasms and nature we've done nature i don't think i want to do jungle what is jungle as a concept the music oh the genre wow okay yes it's niche i don't know how how much it would last for a whole, exactly. So, because of those reasons, and to celebrate cuffing season,

the theme for next week's listen, bitch, is... Orgasms! I love them. Same. So does Jordan, I imagine. I imagine the whole team love them. I don't know anyone that doesn't love a good orgasm. No, no, no, there are some people who can't stop orgasming.

Yes, I know. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? So we'll talk about that. Number to call us 08,030, 40, 90. Tell us all about your orgasms and the journeys you've had with them. There are, of course, some people who haven't experienced them yet or ever, which is also another plight.

I'll see you next week for that then, Jordan. Au revoir. Goodbye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persefonica production for BBC Sounds. Hello, I'm Amul Rajin, and from BBC Radio 4, this is radical. We are living through one of those hinge moments in history when all the old certainties crumble and a new world struggles to be born.

So the idea behind this podcast is to help you navigate it. What's really changed is the volume of information. That has exploded. And also, by offering a safe space, for the radical ideas that our future demands. Go to the Chancellor and say radically cut the taxes of those with children. Telling our stories is powerful and a radical act. Listen to Radical with the Mulrajan on BBC Sounds.