Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! Not Everything Has to Make Sense

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

Jordan Stephens and Miquita Oliver answer your questions about boredom.Next week, we want to hear your questions about THINGS THAT SCARE US. Please send us a voice note on WhatsApp: [phone]. Or, if you like, send us an email: [e-mail] episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This episode contains strong language and themes of an adult nature, which is everyone's favourite theme. Welcome to listen, bitch. It's a rainy, drizzly day. Or not. Oh, yeah, or not. Depending when you're listening. And where?

of Australian listeners. Do you say? A lot of Aussie listeners. This is the kind of day that I would usually just be very cozy and not talk to anyone, but at least it's you that I'm talking to. I was actually planning to kind of like

gaze out of the window into the distance and just like shut a single tear. It felt it feels like that. Just like, just wondering where I went wrong. That kind of day. But instead we're going to talk about boredom. The theme for this week's listen bitch is boredom.

I personally allow myself to get bored And I think it's really useful Fundamental actually to creating I don't know about you I don't think you even have time to get bored at the moment We probably need to figure out the parameters Or the exact definition of how we What we believe boredom to be

Because I actually don't think I've ever been bored Okay let's have our first question For this week's list of Mitch I think that's really true though Hi Jordan, hi McHuta Absolutely love the podcast my name's Marni and my question for you is what's something that's considered quote unquote boring that you actually find really interesting and fun like what you find the beauty

in something that is basically mundane um mine is public transport like catch in a train catch in a bus i honestly think it could be so fun and entertaining like listening to music like another window like it is an experience and people should like enjoy it more so yeah watch your version of that that you find really damn fun which everyone's like so boring like yeah thank you i thought that was lily's daughter mahony my god daughter also sounds like tams in alfred's daughter mahony okay interesting which mahony is it that's the new question interesting this can be anyone um i think what mahony said was important it's about approach because yes the tube could be boring but i don't see it like that i'm with you moni i see it's

like an adventure through my city and I take the appropriate things to stop me from so probably there is a fear of boredom because I don't get on a tube without at least three things to read. You can't be alone. Thanks.

What? Yeah, yeah, but that's because you know you can't be alone. True. Well, do you know, with my thoughts and then maybe not. I don't like the idea of not having something to read. That does make me panic.

That's why I have so many supplements. I don't really read books on the train. I read a lot of supplements. Sorry, what do you mean by supplements? The stuff that comes, the magazines and extra pieces of writing that come with the papers. I can't believe you don't know what I'm talking about. I'll be real, yeah.

I'll be real. Genuinely, Makita, you look incredible. Thanks. But the way you describe some of the things in your life, if we didn't have the beauty of an audiovisual set up here, it would be safe to assume you're in your mid-70s. I can't believe you don't know what a supplement is. That's in better.

Jordan, you should find me someone below the age of 65 who says supplements about a magazine and a paper. Such a shame. Everyone's missing out on so much. Oh, you know me? I've always got my supplements on hand. Do you usually mean like reading magazines? It's not like magazines, though.

It's like, you know, like I read online. I read The New York Times. the supplements that come with the New York Times. That's a paper. What is a supplement? It's like the additional... Magazine. Magazine.

But I've just started reading. I've just started reading. I was like, this is getting silly. I'm only reading the supplements of the papers. So I've just started reading like the big papery bit when it comes to business in the FT and home. I quite like home. And that's in the papery bit.

No, honestly, reading it's great that you read so much. No, it's great that you read so much. should read. That's like a beautiful in-between of silent stillness and stimulation. That's how I don't get bored. I read. Can I ask you a question? Would you live in the countryside? Yes. Now I would. I used to be like, don't be ridiculous. When Lily had that big house, I hate it going to go. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be away from London for three days. But now I definitely intend to get somewhere out of London. I love that silence personally. I'm into that now. I used to live on Harrow Road, as you know. That was like, you know, wide

boys pulling up at 4 a.m. doing balloons. And I was like, hmm, lovely. What are the harmony to sleep with? I could never imagine anything else. What a lullaby? Yeah. Well, now I just, you know, I've got friends who couldn't go into the countryside because they're afraid of the silence. They've proclaimed, self-proclaimed that afraid of the silence, they would rather noise to distract them from their thoughts. And that's mad, isn't it? Shouldn't we be able to be at one with our thoughts? So if you're not afraid of the silence, why do you think you've never been bored. Do you ever experience silence? This may be my question. Yeah, so I would say that the caveat

with that statement, with that bold statement, is that if I have tools around me with which to do something, it's difficult for me to not find something to do. So, for example, like, just people watching, I love. Like, I actually love sitting there and just watching people imagining their lives, their stories, you know, asking myself questions in my head. I love people watching. I've forgotten art actually because of our phones and I won't go on about it again but when I went off my phone onto a burner for a couple of weeks that was one thing I loved doing

but I will say there's been maybe one or two instances in my life where I haven't had anything to do and had to be isolated and that's been uncomfortable yeah I was going to ask actually because we did speak quite a lot in COVID I was wondering how you stopped being bored in COVID what the fuck did I do?

COVID I wasn't bored at all but I had like my computer now what are you talking about i was writing in covid i literally wrote these the sequence of diary entries right i did these like this is how began the process towards writing a book but i would write these short sentences and i'd write them by hand and take pictures of them and put them online and people used to love them and i look at back of them now and i generally don't think i would have been able to i was only able to achieve that kind of that like uh i don't know how to explain it stillness i was i was able to enter into that zone because I had so much free time. I suddenly had my entire social anxiety or anxiety about potential social things like just

removed. It was gone. I knew nothing was happening. So I could suddenly just walk my dog and just think about creation. It was fucking great. But isn't that interesting? Because so many people say that about COVID. Like the one of the reasons I could finally stop is because I knew everything else had as well and everyone else had. So it's so much of our, I think, need for busy. is almost like a kind of reflection or like a reaction to each other's busyness. Yeah, brock what used to blow in my mind is, I remember so vividly I was fuming.

When Instagram stories was first introduced, yeah, into that. I was fuming, right? Because I had never been tortured before by a moment that didn't exist anymore. Like I would wake up in the morning, right? ADHD, I've forgotten to go somewhere. forgotten a plan or whatever else, I go on my phone, I'm watching the video of that having happened the night before and then in my present moment, I feel shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, I can't even like. Everyone thought stories was going to be great. I, like, stories are the bane in my life now. Well, I've adjusted now and now I'm so, well, now I'm so like, you know, I'm not, I don't feel the desire to have to be part of everything like I did maybe when I was younger, but it was just such a bizarre, odd feeling because it was like some things I shouldn't remember. Absolutely. And also, I shouldn't know how a party I didn't go to turned out.

Yeah. That's what I mean. No, sometimes I had been at the party and I don't want to remember it. Right. And I was like, wha! You're like, oh, fuck off. I'm seeing myself at this party.

I'm like, please. Please no one record when what's going on? Anyway, fortunately for me, I was only drunk for like two years of Instagram for me. Yes, well done. Yeah, you got out quick. Yeah. The stories could have ruined my career quick back in the day. My God. That is a way of answering the question because she was saying,

is there anything that other people think are boring and you don't? And I do think that maybe COVID was one because a lot of people did find that really frustrating. But I guess also we both used it as a time. I've never been more proactive. Don't you remember when I called up you and Jade and I was making like a skip school film and I made you and Jade skip in the sitting room of Jade's flat? Yeah, love that shit. I feel like there's got to be something niche as well, though, that, like, people, oh, for me as well, this is, okay, this is something I really mean, because I get this feedback.

I love watching long videos on YouTube. This is one thing I've heard a lot, which, as a friction with other people, like, three and a half hours. What do you mean? What are you watching? Discussions. Yeah, debates. I'll break it up into drives or walks or whatever. If I'm engaged, I love it.

and I feel like I'm learning so much and I'm really into it and it's odd because even though there are other spaces that people engage with long form content i.e. an audio book or I don't know. A film? Yeah, a film but I really like it. I really, really enjoy it. I love people talking.

I love learning. I love that in real life and I like it online but some people think I'm mad for having YouTube premium and listening to you know long honestly because they're like how can you pay attention for that long And I'm like, because if I'm engaged with the subject, I'm awake. I want to. If I feel like I'm pushing forward, you know, it's ancient for me that. So that's something that people find boring.

Oh, that's really good to hear in response to this second screen bullshit. But that is also about boredom. So let's get another question because I'm sure that will come up. Let's have another question from the world to myself and Jordan about the art of boredom. Hi, McKita and Jordan. It's Ali from Cardiff. Love the podcast. Love and Miss Lily.

but, Jordan, I can't think of a better successor. I've really enjoyed listening to you. I really feel that boredom brings out the worst in me. In fact, I go great lengths to avoid it, and I feel like I've really forged out a difficult life for myself just in the pursuit of avoiding boredom. I've chosen a really difficult career path within which I choose difficult jobs,

find myself in difficult relationships, and we'll always seem to take the hardest path because it's better than being bored. I don't know what that is if it's ADHD or avoidance but I guess my question is is there anything worse than being bored and I will caveat that by saying

nowadays I know it's really hard to get bored as there's always something to do you don't even need to just sit at a red light anymore without you know fiddling with the controls on your dashboard with our phones in our pockets we rarely are bored

and that is a problem in itself I can't think for anything worse than being bored. Can you? Yeah so this is what I meant about figuring out the parameters of what we deem to be boredom because I think like we're always going to give ourselves a bit of a task with this listen bitch with such a kind of abstract title or like a little bit of an ambiguous title but maybe there's a difference between something that's boring and being bored. I think that's where I'm getting lost a little bit because you can do a boring activity is the option I am doing nothing. So this is what I'm thinking imagining in my head.

Is there anything worse than me doing nothing? In my head, the immediate answer is, yes, me doing something I hate. Right. And then, but then are you worried that that would be something that was boring? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Is that bored? Do you know what I'm trying to say? That's what I mean by it like...

I think there are two different things. Is that an active boredom? Yeah, because I think people are scared of letting their brain not be engaged in something anymore. And I just think about it when I'm travelling and stuff. It's like, people still got long. whole flights and they had to go to the airport for three hours, what do people do when they were sitting on the chairs? Read. Read books. Yeah, it's very simple actually. Read books.

They'd literally read. That's the whole... I think reading has always been there. If you watch, you know, period films that you dislike, if you catch one of them, the entertainment after dinner is to sit and read stories to each other or play music to each other. So story telling, which is essentially what streaming is. I started thinking about this the other day when I was like, click click click click cannot find something that I actually want to be engaged in watching and I thought God if maybe someone just sat there and said to me this one's a story about a young woman

who did it a this one's a story about that I don't know I think I'd be more interested rather than just like shit to watch really it's all just stories and we've never really grown out of always wanting to be told a story that's why I love TikTok no that's why I don't like TikTok

because it's not story storytelling. It's soundbitey. I don't know what algorithm you're on, but again, I watch like 10 minute long TikToks. That's not a long time. 10 minutes. Now what I mean is, it's like to read an entire supplement of like, let's say culture. That comes with the Sunday Times, right? You get culture, you get the Sunday Times magazine, and you get Sunday Times style.

And you will learn about so many different things within just like the culture supplement. and I feel like I need to be told many things to keep my mind actually engaged. I don't even really remember my point, but I think I have one. But this actually goes back to, but no, but this, I don't want to go on too much of a tangent. But I think what you've touched on there, which is very important, is that we used to trust in particular establishments to be able to serve us something we may not usually have been guided towards, whereas now one of the downsides of the internet is that, you know, you get caught within your own echo chamber and end up watching the same thing like 15 times.

and you can't expand your thoughts. Same as the algorithm on the telly. Satiated by something that you liked once, more of that, more vanilla, more cake. Like, I think I watched one slightly romantic film and now the only thing I can see is bad romantic comedies. And actually, if I was just turning the telly on and there was a film on, I would watch it

because it's like, that's how I used to learn about things when I was a kid. Like, it was on telly and I watched it. And suddenly I'd seen Scarface. Also, you know, it would it be, yeah, mad. I watched Psycho when I was nine. Yeah, Phoebe watched The Omen when she was like eight. But these are defining parts of like how culture educates you

and fucks you up and teaches you things. I think to answer the question, I think there is something worse than being bored. If bored is being left to our own silence, you know, because there are many people who are trapped in, you know, cyclical work environments you aren't paid well enough and aren't even given the means to stabilise it feels suffocating and I think that's that's tough that's I think that's really tough that but I don't but maybe someone would consider that to be active boredom

do you want to ask for the next question next question please hello Makita and Jordan my name's Jacinta from Shrewsbury I really enjoy having you along on the show Jordan thank you for such interesting dynamic conversations. So my question is regarding boredom. I just wonder if you think it's important to have the skill or skills to cope with boredom. I have two fairly young children primary school age and it really strikes me that their childhood is so different to my own in that there's a lot less time for boredom. But actually I think it's a really valuable skill to be able to be still and sit with boredom we'd really love to know your thoughts on it okay thank you bye yes yeah big time and i haven't mastered it yeah in short it is it is a real skill to be alone and like i said

you know like when i was a kid my mom said to me quite early on i remember i saying only boring people get bored she said that to me that was a classic and it stayed in me but you know like i say my interpretation of that is just simply if there are a means in which we can satisfy ourselves or entertain ourselves, we should probably do that. That's why I'm always trying to create shit because it's genuinely fun to do. But, you know, let's say if I went on a silent retreat, for example, which I'm dying to do of Vapasana,

that would be incredibly confronting for me because I would have to actually sit with my thoughts, actually sit with in silence and not, yeah, deflect. I cannot. Kerry did it. Kerry did one for 12 days. 12 fucking days. I was like, what do you mean you can't

speak at all. A very good word that you just use, confronting. That would be probably very important for me to confront something that deep. Like to not emit for 12 days, I don't know where my thoughts would take me, but I imagine somewhere quite a higher power. I've heard wild stories. Well, my friend's time is well that because you're not engaging with one sense, it heightens the others.

So they say that like the taste of food in those retreats is just out of this world. And I also had another story which I find quite funny and I think I remember hearing a story that before she acted in us Lepita Nongo you know the film Jordan Peel film

She went on a Vipassana obviously because a big part of one of her characters or one side of her character is silence you know so she did this Vapassana and apparently before it began like right before the silence began someone came up to her and went

oh my god you're La Pena Yongo aren't you and then shortly after that they went into silence for like nine 10 days no and then apparently when they came out of the silence the woman said I'm so sorry I said that's you that much really uncomfortable and I keep looking to myself like can you imagine making a mistake right before nine days of silence like the idea that she ruminated on that and all the possible complications that came with like bringing someone outside of themselves moments before going into a week-long silence. Do you think you could do it then?

You're actually looking forward. That's something that you would like to be putting in the diary. I want to do it, yes, 100% I want to do it because I talk all the time. And it's how I process things just through talking. So what the hell would that would be like if I couldn't at all? I'm fascinated to do one. I would love to do one.

I haven't not talked for time since I did it to raise money for comic relief when I was 10. So you did do this already? I did it for what, like two days? maybe a day. I walk around with a diary just saying like you're a dick on it or whatever and just put a people's face in. I bet that was quite difficult for nine year old Jordan to shut the fuck up for two days. Ten. Yeah, something like that nine, ten. Something like that. Yeah, it was really hard. It was actually really tough. One thing I would say that I do so that I suppose I'm bored in a different way. I physically exhaust myself with either training or sports. And when we went to

play squash the other day, me and Clara, I was so tired in a different way from the rest of the day. and I remember that's why I like playing sports regularly because I feel like if you're really active and you use your body, by the time it comes to those moments of oh God, I think I'm really bored. I actually feel very calm because of the way I've exerted myself physically

and I mean this more about sports than just training. Sports are so, they're so engaging. Your mind is so engaged when you're playing sports. We played for 45 minutes and I didn't think about anything but getting this black ball over this red line. And Clara...

Flow state, yeah. Right, flow state. Exactly. And Clara fucking loved it and I feel like I gave her something really great that she would never have gone to on her own because a lot of the time I think I'm bored I actually just haven't used myself properly that day

ringed myself out proper. That's true. I don't know what, I don't know how you're a teacher kid nowadays to be okay with stillness and silence. I think that's quite something. I'm broody. I've said this before.

I'd love to have kids, but I think we maybe underplay, I think we consciously underplay in society how little we've adjusted to technology and children. I think it happens so quickly. I just think all of us are just baffled. It's a really important thing to get a kid off a screen. And there is actually something very kind of,

I find skipping quite a silent thing. You kind of go into like an active meditation when you skip. That's at least like half an hour, an hour, that they've done something else and that they were physical. I guess my answer is be more physical. Yeah, what you're saying, which I think is brilliant and very true, is that our emotional and physical relationship is one of the same

and I think if we are anxious about the thoughts that might sit with us in silence we could consider pushing our body to a place where that silence is achievable which I think is I've had people who've got over like anxiety disorders from doing sport yeah man fuck it completely changed the way I think about things thank you for saying that that was what I meant in a really complicated way thank you Jordan for being a sorry I'm so tired Today, my mind is just like, let's have another question, please. For this week's, listen, bitch. Hi, Jordan and Makita.

My name's Georgia. I'm calling in from Sydney, Australia. By the way, I could listen to you talk for hours, honestly. I have a question on boredom. When I was young, my mom always used to say that only, sorry, it's my dog. My mom used to say that only bored people got bored. Do you guys think that's true? Do you think only bored people get bored?

What do you think? Thanks. It's nice to know that parenting went all the way from wherever you would have been at that time, all the way to Australia. Thank you for everyone saying such lovely things about Jordan. He's done it. He's excellent, isn't he? He's doing such a bloody wonderful job.

They've just picked out the nice ones. No, I'm sorry. We don't get that. We don't get that all like. It's just really nice to have you here, Jordan. Like that's lovely. Thank you, everyone. Cheers.

He's so easy to like. Listen, such a thinker. I've had a lot of people say that to me, like, I like the way Jordan's mind works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's cool. At least they only get to hang out with me for like, you know, roughly an hour a week.

Anything more than that? You're like, mate, shut up. It's too, like, no. What was the question? The question was, do boring people get bored? Do only boring people get bored? And my answer is, I don't think, I don't take it that seriously that thing.

I understood it in principle because, you know, I like the idea of creating joy out of what appears to be a boring situation. Actually, maybe I do agree. Wait, this is just landing in my head as I'm saying it. Like, if I imagine someone looking at me in this world with all of the things around and they go like, I don't know what to do.

Oh my God. Yeah, they might be boring. What's a boring person? Yeah, there is another way of saying this, which is there aren't uninteresting people. There are just people who are uninterested. Which is in the spirit of curiosity, which I would say is, My number one, like, if not top, top three, maybe number one most important thing in life. And I am astounded every day that goes by, because this is something that happens a lot in my life, by the way.

People feel threatened sometimes by me asking questions. It's happened to me all throughout my life where, you know, admittedly some context, you know, there's more tension involved because I'm trying to break something apart so I can get it. You've probably heard it on some of the calls that we're on. But like I have to... But I love questions. I think it's great that you ask questions. You're incredibly curious. But I love that about you, Keats.

That's why I think you were a brilliant presenter and a broadcaster. I really... And I'm not saying that I really truly mean that. It is almost the dying art to just be actually curious about what's going on. No, seriously, though. Like, with curiosity with an open mind. Like, those two things together are like, what the fuck is happening to the world? Actually, to go back to the lady before, maybe that's quite a good one.

way for kids to sit with silence like because you can sit because curiosity is where things are bred in your head yeah ask questions in your mind yeah ask questions in your mind i wonder when that was invented well you know why why do we love this color what a brilliant reason to be alive don't even have to have surefire answers just be wonder just wonder like what an adventure i can do that with the tube i'm not joking i can be like wow imagine when they first were here laying all these fucking tracks down and like that's how i get through the city i'm curious about everything i see every day yes brilliant i okay what's your answer because i think i've actually completely 180 on my answer okay so people who aren't curious are they boring no but they will probably have a less

juicy fucking interesting life full of surprise experience and joy yeah so yeah so quite shit then I just look, man, I really truly believe in the, again, the curious, creative nature of every human. I really understand that a lot of things that happen in life will exhaust us, you know, particularly job-wise financially right now in our country. Like all of these elements will push people into a place where they kind of end up self-soothing, brain-numbing, you know, just watching things because it's easy, not because it's, you know, like you have to think about it. I completely understand this. I also think that we can't lose that desire to grow and evolve. Like we really, for people to be in situations that they could alleviate with enough curiosity and they're actually almost choosing not to because it feels too overexerting or stuff like that.

I would want to be somebody who encourages someone out of that state. Like it really, movement is such a powerful thing. Totally. No, but the thing is, I don't want to be judging people. I don't want to be like, I can understand how people can get into those states, but I think that's the way out. I was just going to say that this is why second screening really started to upset me or freak me out, especially when I was just having a lot of meetings within television

about being led by that. And I feel like second screener, yeah, I do it as well. But that's my, I have to snap myself out of it to remind myself to just even like watch the film that I've put on. Or if I've put on a TV show, watch that. Oh, wow. You're watching the phone. in the film, I don't do that really.

No, I'm really trying not to because if I don't think that this whole film and its entire narrative and everything that's in it is still not enough and I still need to fill a bit more space, like that that would mean that there is a part of my attention that I'm scared of having to live in. It's like

we don't need two things at once. Do you want to know what else is crazy about the screen thing, which is proper state of me. I heard a neuroscientist discussed this the other day. It's because ultimately, we're engaging with like dopamine that's what we're getting from our phones

every time we unlock our phone it could be something equivalent to like a gift you know might have a notification might have a message we might see something funny like what present have you got for me phone totally but we don't have an unlimited supply of dopamine we have a limit and then you know we have to allow for it to build back up again

and in that time when it's building back up again we often feel low sad unmotivated the mad thing is we end up using so much of our dopamine mean on our phones that we don't have enough left to feel joy out of healthy decisions. Oh my God. So we would use, so, so there is, there is a reward system in our brain that would activate from making a decision for our own benefit in the future. Like there's something where we could go, you know what I'm going to do, I'm going to

make myself a really great salad or I'm going to, I'm going to cook some, that old chicken, you know, like, like, not old chicken, sorry, the old chicken recipe I was going to say, my ADHD got there, cook something that feels good to eat, I go on a walk, And this is something like these decisions that we know will benefit us in the future. We're not making them because we've used all our dopamine on our screen. That's, well, and again, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, of course it does. And it keeps you locked into that sofa and then actually you're not going to cook

and you're going to get something delivered and you're going to eat it while you watch something. And basically it's about taking ourselves away from being present, isn't it? And what is so scary about the present? The real fear in life comes from anxiety about the past and fear of the future. surely the present is the safest place to be because nothing can actually harm me when you're just in the present it's like I haven't gone anywhere

I'm not going back there so just here it is safe but I don't think we believe that it is Keith is we're going to do a break Yes yes yes yes absolutely yes Let's have a break Let's just have a little slice through the boredom Welcome back

to this extremely boring episode of Miss Me. The theme is boredom. Sorry, we'll have a... The ultimate, the finale, the final one. I've never done this before, but I guess we're saying the things that we find boring. One thing that I find extremely dry is any sport where you have to watch someone else play.

For instance, golf, just watching someone hit a ball into a hole in the distance is pretty dry to me. I don't know. It's just not for me. I don't like watching someone do something Have to wait my turn I just think it's such a dry experience

I'll wait your turn What was the actual question? Nothing, she's just telling us what She's, look, you know what I want to announce something new You started golf Miss Me Question of the Week award Listen, bitch question of the week

That wasn't even a question It wasn't even a question It wasn't even a question But I'm giving her the award I love golf No, I love golf What? Yeah, because I grew up opposite

a golf course because my nan lived opposite a golf course. You know what everyone tells me like Jordan you'd love it, you're out in nature you get to chat to people, you don't, you're not on your phone, you know, you get to spend hours and I'm like, yeah, fair enough, but also why am I spending £2,000 or some iron? And like, why am I having to wear this fucking get up?

The excessive reasons are expensive. Something, now that we're just opening out and to things that you find boring, you know what I find boring now? The ses. I realize that in Ibitha. Why are you even near a sesh? Because I went to someone's wedding. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm on the outskirts of the sesh.

I just observe it for fun. I'm absolutely on the outskirts, but I have as well been on the outskirts for quite a while now, but I haven't been to a place where the seh was such a contained situation for everyone that was in. It was a group sesh. It was a session en masse. Very much on the sea.

Yeah, session on sea on sea. In I mean, so it's very like, you know, united. And I was just, I was so on the periphery of it. And I was like, wow, I've officially left the seh. Like, I'll never return. Can I be, like, honestly, for anybody wondering out there, yeah, because obviously when I talk about sobriety and stuff, people ask me, you know, eight years sober, how is that,

what is that like? Go to a sesh sober. I remember, I remember the first time I sat in a sess sober and I was like, I cannot believe that I was part of this. No, no, no, like, I cannot even fathom. I talk about. stuff in the day that sounds

like the kind of thing you bring up in a session. Sesh chat. My whole day is SES chat. You are sort of a walking session chat.

But like totally. But actually, but actually, yeah, that's what I mean. You can have SES chat in the day guys. Like you can have SES chat walking your dog.

So you can be walking a dog and you can just see someone and be like, God, do you remember when when, do you remember when Sheffield Wednesday were like really high up

in the Premier League? It was amazing. Conversation starter. I'll start chats like that in the day. But when you see in the context of like, you know, ingesting things and drinking things and everyone just looks wired, it's just like not nice. No, and this doesn't come from a place of judgment because, like, obviously I spent a long time. Well, you're in the sesh?

Best thing ever. I was like, I'm in Mecca. I am king. Yeah, of course. I will live here forever. Everyone wants to listen to this story. But no one's listening to each other. Anyway, so yeah, it was really good.

I was like, right, I'm officially bored of the sesh. I thought maybe after years and years of not attending it, if I was near it again on such mass, I'd be like, fuck it. And I just wasn't. I was like, and I, oh, in turn, had to come to terms with the fact that I might be in their heads boring. And that was quite interesting. I had to try that on for size.

Oh, being the boring person. Oh, you're boring. Yeah, because every day I'd be like, I'm going back to the hotel. Going to sleep early. Is that boring? And I was like, maybe I'm the boring one now. And I was like, I don't care.

I did, um, I'd be for sober. I went raven and I beefer. It's fucking brilliant. I wasn't sober, but fucking hell. I loved it. I loved it. Honestly. I missed, I'm gutted.

I've not gone to Rifa this year. I had the time of my life. I love Raven sober. It's one of my favorite things. It's honestly one of my favorite things. Well, I remember at Theo's birthday party. You were like really dancing. I was like.

Yeah, I love life. Because I know Lil had a problem. and not a problem. She just found it quite challenging for a few years. Now she's out more than me. Yeah, we had the whole sober gang there, man. Me, little, Dom, Jack. It was amazing.

Yeah. Yeah, I loved that because we were on the Sesh. Yeah, such thing. All classic Sesh heads. All those names. All the classics. Anyway, so to confirm, you said golf isn't boring.

I think there's many things wrapped around golf that could be considered boring. Well, maybe it goes back to what that lady was saying before about the tube and it's like golf could be boring but I see it as all these other things I can find from it I love being around the luxury of it like I love a golf club they're really nice then I love to be outside in this kind of manicured nature around wilder nature I love the clothes and I love the pace of the game and I love winning I don't by the way I don't really play golf I've played like once I yeah listen sure I mean again people talk to me about it but um the one

thing i'll finish off by saying what one thing that i struggle to wrap my brain around so i guess this does spill into the world of potential boredom is if i had to engage solely with numbers i've had to educate myself on economics firstly because i'm an adult and unfortunately it's a big part of my life but secondly because it's a big has a big crossover with other things i'm passionate about i masculinity or I guess even love culture so I've had to engage with it but fuck me sometimes I'm like listening to these videos talking about stocks and bonds and I'm just like

I know how I'm trying to educate myself about that as well oh dude I think a good interesting way of looking that is not the numbers but the impact like what it means to the world is how I get engaged in it when I'm just looking at numbers I'm like oh I'm overwhelmed But then I'm like, tell me what this means to the economy and then I start understanding it in a different way. This is what's so funny is like that's kind of,

this is a weird thing to say, but that's kind of what puts me off is that it means something. Like, in a weird way. Like it all really means something. It's all very intricate, intricately delicate. And it's, you know, whereas I, where I found most joy are places

where the meaning is ambiguous. Like, it kind of like, you know, I love spaces of like, you know, let's challenge your things. thought because why not? Because what else is the point? Can you imagine? Rather than X equals Y equals blah-da and that's just the way it is. Exactly. We are desperately seeking all of these formulas when actually such a huge part for me of existing is being comfortable in the fact that not everything has to make sense and

it is beyond our desire for that. You just named the episode. Very good Jordan. Not everything has to make sense. That is such a good mantra. actually I've been and also for so many other things as well not getting a job having your heart broken like like all those things I've always tried to make sense of it and that's where pain comes it's like you know what doesn't fucking make sense it doesn't fucking make sense nah there is no answer what a way to end boredom that was such a fucking great sentence so remember the theme for next week's listen bitch is the things that scare us to go with this kind of cozy but a bit freaky time of year that we all love so much sweet love bye love

bye thanks for listening to miss me this is a pasophonica production for bvcc sounds hello i'm jack and i'm rosy and we are two of the hosts of lunchbox envy a food podcast from the makers of q i and no such thing as a fish. Each week we dive into a different dish or ingredient and uncover tons of fabulous foody facts about the history, science and culture behind food and drink. For example, did you know that the Aztecs enjoyed a dollop of peanut butter on their roasted grasshoppers? Or that it was a 12-year-old boy who figured out how to grow vanilla on farms. So if you want to find out how avocado trees are bisexual or what the first ever meal eaten on the moon was, then Lunchbox,

is the podcast for you. Listen now on BBC Sounds.