Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! Waiting for the Ball to Drop

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens answer your questions about puberty.Next week, we want to hear your questions about CINEMA. Please send us a voice note on WhatsApp: [phone]. Or, if you like, send us an email: [e-mail] episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

The following episode contains strong language and themes of an adult nature and some mentions of drug use. It's, welcome to Listen Bitch. It's 26. Listen Bitch has not changed. Not one bit. Keeping with the same format, same name, same energy, same vibe. The theme for this week's Listen Bitch is Puberty. I've got to preface this episode with the fact that I was at 8 o'clock last night. when I finished work, going to do an hour of the history of puberty. And then I thought, you know what? The history of puberty?

Was it invented? See, this is why I didn't do it. Because I was like, I'm tired, and it won't even be fucking valued. So this is why I didn't do it. Yeah, exactly. First question, please. Hi, Makita and Jordan. I'm Eva from Swansea.

I actually work in sexual health, like teaching people about sex and relationships. So my question for you is, is there anything you picked up during puberty that is still present today? Like not liking a part of your body or being obsessed with a band or maybe like seeking out those like codependent relationships, like getting obsessed of people. I would love to hear what you think. Thank you. Is it terrible that I still do all those things? People didn't give a trigger warning for the entire fucking episode. This is the second listen bitch where it's like, oh, cool.

you want to just go into my soul first question. Yeah, welcome to listen, bitch. I mean, yeah, I don't do anything. I don't get obsessed in people anymore. And I don't hate any part of my body. I do have hairy arms because I shaved my arms when I was a child because I was excited about shaving. That was a cheaper thing to do.

And my mom did tell me and I should have fucking listened to her. I didn't. So, listen, puberty for me was fucking wild because I hit puberty a lot later than the other boys around me. Did you? I was still growing when I was like 21. So bear in mind, I was famous at 19. So you feel like you were in puberty in early Rizzle kicks?

No, I was. Wow. My body was still forming. God, you're like Justin Bieber, aren't you? Bloody hell. It was fucking wild. I just remember, and this is a lot, I've actually been thinking about this a lot recently.

It's because, again, I wasn't guided or shown or, you know, there's this secrecy and shame in and around, well, I mean, sex and privates generally, right? But, like, obviously, I'm only speaking on my experience as a boy, I think because I didn't understand the bodily mechanisms or, like, what was expected of me or, like, the conversations that were happening. There were years, man, where I was, like, really, like. What, baffled? I mean, I don't know if it's the same for everybody, but at my school, the girls developed a sexual, curiosity early, early than the boys. Like, I'm talking, I know this is uncomfortable to hear, but I'm talking like 12, 13 years

old. Like this is... I think that's across the board. That was definitely my experience as well. Okay. So I was in a situation I remember on a school French trip where like all these girls had their hands down my, my boxes, which might sound great, you know, in like a cultural, like laddie, you know, like, woo.

But actually, I like did a. have pubes. Oh my God, children. It's uncomfortable truths, but I had no idea what was happening. And then I remember them like then discussing like the sizes and the, and the. What was this like coach on the way to school journey or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah, school, get back at the school coach. Why does shit always go down like that?

I know. I know. Can I just ask a question? This is something that I really wanted to ask you. And this is the beauty of doing Miss Me with a boy. I don't understand the. the process and I didn't research it either of balls dropping. So the balls are, you have the ball bags

but the balls are up. They're like in a bit above it. Right. And then they suddenly just... And then at some point they drop and they drop in different ways for different people. Some just drop at the same time for me. I had one ball drop for a long time and I was literally waiting for the other ball and this is quite literally waiting for the ball to drop. But don't get, don't worry, I've written a poem with that as the fucking title. Don't you worry about that. Good work.

But like, I literally was. And it's, you know, and then you're navigating this world. And the scariest part about it is you don't know what's normal. Because we're not shown or taught about teenagers' privates for I guess obvious reasons, I'm only basing my idea on what is right and wrong or when things should happen on conversations I'm hearing about other boys. And the other funny thing is some of those boys are just lying. Yeah, of course.

You know what I mean? Some of those boys are literally, like a huge part of being a teenage boy when I was growing up was posturing and, you know, dominance and like, who's the best at a thing? They'd always go around being like, I'm the best in bed or I'm the best kids. And intellectually, I'll be like,

how can you even have like a fucking algorithm for sex? Like, what don't you talk about? Everyone's different. And also we're talking about 16 year olds, 15 year olds. Yeah, so all that kind of pressure. So, yeah, it's tough to know. And also some people's balls can go back up when they're older and some can't.

And is this when, the voice starts to break as well. So you've got this physical thing happening and then this starts happening. Audibly, you are changing and growing. Yes, audibly, you know what's crazy. Jade sent me a video this morning because you're talking about, we often talk about, you know, like the harms of this society on boys specifically. And one of those examples is, and you'll love this because it's history, there's a type of singer called a castrato, right? Okay, a castrato, So 1904 Catholic Church forbade women from singing in church. So it created a demand for male singers with high voices, right?

And in order to guarantee that these male singers had high voices, boys aged 8 to 10 would undergo a castration to ensure that their voice didn't change after puberty. You mean full castration? They took their balls off, yeah. Fuck. At 8 to 10 years old. Fuck.

This was banned in 1903. Only in 1903? Mm-hmm. Okay. Crazy, isn't it? So this is what happens when I don't do my research. You bring the history. That was actually fortunate.

That's just so happened that Jay sent me that. Is it fortunate? Or is it like Quincy says, leave 10% for magic? Leave 10% face for magic. Synchronicity, yes. But with that for you, so with pubs and with like periods and with these like self, like sexual maturity, these kind of things, did you feel a similar societal pressure around you

from like comparison to girls, boobs, like these kind of thing. What was weird for me is I started puberty when we lived in Spain with Nana and stuff. So I was sort of like hidden as it were. And then I came back to London and started Holland Park and I had like big boobs. And I did not know what to do with them. I just remember not knowing what to do with them. And as I said in a previous episode about certain men I know, being honest with me about feeling differently about their daughters ones and they started their periods.

Oh my God. Yeah, we spoke about that. We also had a bit of an issue with male. teachers when you're suddenly like you've got boobs. I had beautiful teachers at Holland Park, but I felt uncomfortable about the way I looked and what I was becoming. And I think it is probably quite hard. I mean,

I'm sure they're used to it over and over roll call of women, girls going through puberty. But yeah, I felt weird around men, maybe not just teachers, just around men for about two years. I didn't really know what to do with this self that I was becoming. But I cannot remember first having pubic care.

And it must be fucking weird when it first starts. but I cannot remember. Mad. That's a mad thing. Wouldn't want to do it again. No, thank you. But good luck to where everyone is about to start puberty. Let's have another question.

Hi, my name's Sarah. I'm from Hertfordshire. Loving the podcast, guys. I love you both. I think you guys are amazing. And it always makes me smile. So thank you for that. My question on puberty,

I've got two small children, and I'm just wondering what age and how you would kind of approach the whole puberty talk. Obviously, no, you don't have children, but what age do you think it's appropriate to start talking to your children about puberty? And how would you go about that conversation? Early, right? Like, early? I literally just had this chat yesterday. With who? With a friend of mine. I probably shouldn't say, but with a friend of mine because... Who has a child? Who has a child, two children. And we, again, I really don't think we have the tools with this format, this structure of life to be able to

deal with the nuance of a child discovering themselves sexually, their privates, their understanding of how that relates to the world around them is really difficult. I literally don't have the answers because I'm not a parent, but I do identify that it's incredibly tough because of, again, we pervert everything here. Yeah. We really do pervert things. To the point where I think the educational system has turned its back on proper sexual education and kind of implementing this knowledge. I mean, I would love to know what it looks like. today but I haven't heard good things. I haven't heard good things but I have said that in a podcast and I remember getting like some messages being like this is ridiculous. Sex education is this, this, this.

So I'm sure there'll be some schools that have shifted and changed it. That'd be great. Just to be clear, there is sex education in schools and it varies between schools and it differs across the UK. I think it's slightly deprioritised, but I've had people from so various schools tell me that their sex education has advanced and evolved. But I do think overall we could do with really looking into the importance of having significant sex education in schools more than an hour a week. For me, like again, call me a dreamer. Call me a dreamer. But like, I think the school system is on its head. It's in a handstand. Like we should be prioritising almost exclusively matters of interpersonal relations.

We should be, that should be school. STEM subjects are going, lads. Let's be clear. Let's, let's be real about it. Yeah. Like you can do STEM if you want. It's cool and it's great. And people need to learn how to read and write and the basics. But like every single human being on this planet's life is hinged upon their ability to connect to the people around them. And we don't get taught it. It's not intrinsic. You don't grow up and then suddenly develop a muscle that teaches you how to be nice and kind and balanced in a relationship.

No, but I know what teaches you that. Trauma. Fairy tales. No. That's the one. That's the example. That's exactly what it doesn't. No, they teach you about.

morals. They teach you, yeah, some, some, what it is to be good and kind as opposed to bad and unkind and courage, courage versus cowardice. Yeah, there are some, there are some things to take from those, but there's also, I mean, if we're really to get into it, if we did have a space where the importance of like self-actualization was realized, we would look at a lot of those fairy tales and stories and cartoons and books, whatever, and really think about what the benefit is, you know, like, what are the shape of the, of the kids? that you see in cartoons shows. Like what's their body look like?

Like does their body change? Are they happy with their body? How do they talk to themselves? Like are the heroes on a journey of isolation or are they journeying with the people around them? Are they more concerned with their community than they are with their individual succession? Like a lot of the heroes I grew up

create the mess they then deal with. You know, there's loads of aspects of those stories where you can, I think we can go, right, we know enough now. We can tweak it a little bit. And it does happen, but I wouldn't rely solely on stories that were written a very, very long time ago to, like, to really, there are some,

I do think there are some maternal truths, don't get me wrong. Yeah, the little, the little mermaid. Sure. You know the Hans Christian Anderson version of that story, like the real original story? It's very dark and it does teach you a lot. Well, I know the Brothers Grimm stories of Snow White and shit, yeah, like they're all dark. Yeah, I think they're brilliant. Yeah, listen, stories are the best.

You're right. You're right to say that actually, sorry. Stories are incredibly brilliant, but school, I don't think, reflects the power of those stories. But we do think teachers are bloody brilliant. All right, let's have a break. Hey, we're back from the break. Keats is what we're saying. Why don't you ask for the next question?

Next question, please. Hi, Makita and Jordan. Love a podcast. Makita, I feel an affinity of you because I am also 41 and I live in East London. And on the subject of puberty, I wonder if you also,

as a woman of our age, see all this stuff on social media about perimenopause being, I think some people call it Cougar puberty. But it's funny how it's been dubbed sort of a second puberty for women because of obviously the hormonal changes, I guess. But I find it kind of really annoying and almost offensive that it's been rammed down my throat on every app I'm on. It's just constant perimenopause information. and I don't think I'm even starting it yet, but I just wonder, what do you think about perimenopause?

And would you agree it is a second kind of puberty? Oh, Lindsay. Well, not there yet, Lindsay, don't worry. I only 41. That's what I've been saying. And someone who I know is like, one of my friends who's like 44, just keep saying, well, I'm going to be perimenopausal soon. And I'm like, that's an interesting thing to kind of damn yourself too early.

Like, if you are, fine. But I think our fear of it, because we have more knowledge of it now, I think our fear of it is sometimes kind of not incurring it to occur earlier, but like self-fulfilling prophecy maybe somewhat. I'm scared of perimenopause, if I'm really honest, but I am more prepared because we're so lucky to be the generation that just has more education about it and conversations that are more open. Like, I've learned so much from my mum's menopause and not just to fear it,

but to be prepared for it. And when I turned 35, you know, I was talking to Jordan in Sri Lanka about these seven-year cycles, and that's why I'm really excited about turning 42 in April, because I know it's the beginning of my new seven-year cycle. 35 to 41, 35 to 42 has been a ride. And the next seven, I know exactly where I'm headed. Who knows what will happen, but I know what I want. And that will probably include perimenopause. I was thinking about the other day, I was like, oh, I'm not just going to like be young and go forward.

And it's like, biological shit is going to happen. in the next seven years that I can't control. So there's an acceptance, but there's also shaping it to mean what it can mean for us, right, Lindsay? And that, if that wants to be a older puberty, then sure, because at 35, I could have told myself I was washed up, dead out, you know, invisible.

And I turned myself into the best version of myself I could be and have had the most visible seven years of my life. So it's just about the story you tell yourself with the information that you are presented with. I think. Peri menopause and menopause are things to be prepared for and not just fear, I think. You don't even have a version, do you? You don't even have a fucking version.

What do you mean? Nothing. You have nothing to fear about getting older. No, that's not true. Men have midlife crises. Yes, so do women. Yeah. Anything that you just get physically, it is an incredible kind of twist, isn't it,

that women then get this other thing and you don't get it. I'm not, I'm not saying it's your fault, Jordan. personally. I hear you 100% is it's definitely something that splits and sometimes contaminates the gender discussion.

I would like to believe that if we could create a world where men were more in tuned with their bodies we might be able to understand more how things shift and change and what those changes because yes,

we don't have massive hormonal shifts you don't have the lining of our womb you know like, not the lining of our womb, sorry, I don't even know the fucking science of it. Yeah, that's period. That our supply of eggs or whatever the process is of just like relinquishing the reproductive ability.

Yeah, that's fucking huge. And we should be appreciating it and worshipping it as such. For men, there will be versions of griefs or whatever that might not be as obvious in the body, but will definitely be like things, you know, at some point you can't run as fast. You can't operate as quickly. Your brain shifts, you know, your desires change. Again, I'm not comparing because it's incomparable in that sense. but I just think we're so used to the idea that men don't go through things

or men are just so cerebral. Which is very unhealthy for men when they actually do go through things. For men, yeah, because I'm desperately trying to create a space in myself and then other people where like we feel part of the world and nature in the same way that we feel like we do have some fun of internal clock as well. Like we do feel or if not, we're part of the process for women. You know, it's a collective thing. how can we hold space and provide balance for that thing.

I actually personally, just maybe Philin Zit for balance, I find the conversation around perimenopause really interesting for me because firstly, you know, as a man, it's important that I know these things. And secondly, some of the research I've seen come out and explaining that the hormonal shift at points completely alter someone's personality. This kind of information is invaluable. Thank you. To think if before we knew this stuff, there will have been marriages that have ended,

parental relationships that would have been fractured, Like jobs that would have been lost. Absolutely. All of these scenarios, if there's not an understanding of why a person is changing their behaviour, then people can't provide context for the behaviour. It doesn't always excuse things. It's not like you can just start being a fucking complete whatever. But I would feel relieved by that.

I'd feel relieved by that, oh, they're being nasty to me maybe because they themselves. They're in hell. Yes. Garfield didn't know anything. And my mom's menopause journey has been a ride for him as well. He's also in that relationship. And I think it's really important to remember that that menopause is about the people around you as well so that they can support you better throughout it. I was just going to say as well, though, I just think this, I imagine that I'm not smarter than biology.

I think I'm probably not. But I do believe being told that 40 is when you were barren and you couldn't have kids after it. It was a fucking miracle if you did may have been a lie because what I'm seeing now goes completely against that. know that a lot of people struggle as well, but I know a lot of women struggling in their 30s. I have a friend going through IVF right now and she's 36. This idea that after 40, it is. Yes, men's, yeah, yeah. Nigh on impossible.

And if you are, you're a, what's it called? Like a geriatric. No, if you, if it happens, you're a medicinal marvel. What's it? Medical Marvel. Medical Marvel. And suddenly, with that conversation shifting, thanks, Siena Miller. And Hillary Swank.

And Hillary swag. Just this idea shifting has suddenly meant what I'm seeing is shifting as well. And we didn't change biology. So I just think telling a story is really important because it can affect what you think is possible for you. Whether it be having a baby. Which I think it was Lindsay's point to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Exactly.

Whether it be having a baby or feeling fucking young until you're 60. Yeah. You know? Yeah, it's a real, that's, you got again, like we're talking about, the Tao way, you have to find the middle. You have to accept the information but not let it define you, identify with it, you know. I forgot about that, Jordan.

I really need that for something else in my life right now. Thank you. That's really good. But that is, that's, that is the challenge. I mean that when I talk about neurodivergence, ADHD, like I like having information about it. It helps me navigate life. Can I excuse everything in my life because of ADHD?

No. I can provide context, what doesn't change, you know? So, anyway, so it's about the middle. You've been quite good today, though. You said that you took the wrong. ADHD medicine and you felt a bit whirly gig. Oh, yeah, it does sound like a journey. I'm on it personally at the moment.

But yeah, it has its challenges. Yeah, final question. I have the final question for this week's Listen, bitch. We have been discussing puberty. Puberty. Hi, guys. I'm Nicole. I'm from Norwich.

I was excited to see this subject to come up as I'm an author and a lot of my work is about providing advocacy to our teens. I'm of the belief that we need to change the narrative of how we speak about them. So let's stop calling them horrible or difficult to manage or tough. I'm a mum of two teams and I actually find them to be dynamic and funny and passionate in ways that we kind of forget to be as we become adults. So my question is, if you could speak to your 13-year-old self, what piece of advice would they give you today? Thanks for being legends. Oh, oh, I love that question.

13 Jesus You know I find 13 and 14 Really strange in my life Because it was like The only bit of teenagehood I got to do not working Yeah

It's not many years 13 and 14 13 14 15 3 years So I love though They're really sacred to me Literally 13 to 15 13 I was living in Powers Terrace

With my mum I think Garfield was in our lives And Oh yeah It was our lives last year living in the flat in West London before we lost it, but we didn't know that at the time. I think I was pretty happy. Oh, God.

Yeah, 13 is when I discovered acid. I took quite a lot of acid at 13. I wouldn't recommend it one time. Oh, my God, this was 13. Me and my friend were, we were just a bit silly and we took acid and then we were at her house and it was a school night and they thought we were drunk so they separated us. So we both had to have separate trips in separate rooms whilst trying to talk to each other through knocks on the wall.

And it was like, you know, the worst 13 hours of my life. I think I lost my mind a little bit as a little kid. So I probably say to my 13 year old self, like... No, she, the question, the question's what the 13 year old say to you, yeah. Oh yeah, her to me.

She'd probably be like, do you want to get high? Do you want to get high? That's what I'm thinking, man. I'm looking back going like, what fuck does this point know? I don't think she hasn't any good advice for me. What fucking advice?

with my 13 one would be like, oh, um, you know. Oh, no, I've got it. Go on. She would say, remember to play. Yeah, I'm still doing that shit. Yeah, she would say remember to play. Cartwheel through life. Yeah, I don't know.

I really, I really, I've, it's, for better or for worse, I mean, therapists, please, hit me up. I know a lot of you guys message me after the Miss me podcast to break down how you feel about them. Do they? Yeah, yeah, I get a lot of messages about Miss me. From therapists? Depends on what we've spoken about. but I tend to get quite a lot of therapists follow me and engage in my work.

Oh, right, yeah, yeah, because how are you fine? Are you okay with all this attention? Yeah, I think so. Like, well, therapists are cool. I like that. I'm curious about the world. That kind of shit's dope, but, you know, I am. No, I mean, I mean being on Miss Me and discussing stuff.

I am fascinated by, like, I really am just quite surprised by how big this podcast is. I really cannot emphasize enough how casually I've, approach this whole thing. When you're like, do you want to do it? I was like, yeah, yeah, sure. Like, I didn't, I wasn't, it's quite incredible how many people message me and say. And then sometimes I won't, like, across Sri Lanka, I didn't post at all. I wasn't even on my social media. And I kept gaining followers. And I was like, what could possibly be coming out as increasing my following story? But no, it's just, I have a block on it. I have a block. I don't know why, but I don't feel, I like to take care of Little Jordan and I like to speak to Little Jordan.

and I know that his needs are quite specific in terms of like comfort, security, but in terms of what lesson I can be gained, like those versions of myself are dead. Like really, really and truly. In fact, a version of me is dying now. Like at the moment, I'm going through a death of a version of myself and I can feel it because it's altering who I'm engaging with

and what I'm saying and it's tough. Jordan, not only do I see that happening with you, I feel like I'm doing the same and it's painful and uncomfortable. It's mad. But it's kind of exciting. I'm like, what would be on the other side of this shit? Let's let these deaths occur.

Oh, God, I've died loads. Died loads over the last few months. Honestly, I'm not even joking, man. Like, I've literally, I can look at, it's what I'm trying to say. To loop back to our meaty drop, the 2016 pictures, if I look at that, I know that version. Doesn't exist.

Like, there'll be echoes within me, but that person's dead. Yeah, that's kind of freeing. Well. Okay, thank you. It's been lovely to relive my youth, but not actually. I didn't really want to today,

but it was okay. It's okay. Yes. We will see you for next week's listen, bitch. The theme is what? Touch. No, no, no. Touch is too sexual.

We need to take it a little bit more naturey, lifey, worldly. Should we do the... Oh, nature is cool. What about, we've done nature of it? What about like the environment or something? Hey, I am. Environment's quite vast.

Exactly. Trees? Trees is a bit niche. Is it niche though? It feels niche and then you think everyone's got stories and questions about trees, no? Don't trees play a part in everyone's life? Yes. Oh, but I really did enjoy our Bond chat the other day.

Do you want to do like films from the 90s? Or like underrated or like. We've been rewatching Mission Impossibles. Cinema? Cinema. Yeah, I was about to say, cinema is actually funny because loads of people

have cinema experiences. I've got many cinema experiences. Okay, cinema it is. The theme for next week's listen, bitch, is... Cinema. Because we're classy bitches and we mean experiences within said cinema.

Also, we do genuinely just want to save the art of cinema, bro. That would be nice. And I'd like to talk about films. We've had quite nice off-air conversations about films. Can I say one other thing that I'd like? And you can fuck off if you don't like it. I really want people to say where they are,

people still say that, like that lady's Davis from Swansea, but also what kind of house you live in, I'm really interested. So if you live, there's just she. Because you could live in a cabin in Whitstable, or you can live in an apartment in Leeds, or you could live in a townhouse in Islington. It makes me visualize.

Oh, you say Miss me is a really big hit. Yes, it is. It's nice to feel like where everyone listens. Okay? Yeah. And it's my podcast. I'll do what I want. No, I'm joking. It's our podcast. It is, yeah.

No, it is ours. You have a majority share. Okay, thank you so much, Jordan. Thank you. I gotta go. Bye! Love, bye-bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me.

This is a Persefonica production for BBC Sounds. Oh, hello. I'm Joe Marla, traitor hunter, reader of minds, and completely unqualified. Have you ever wanted to get deep into? the heads of celebrities, ever wanted to see some totally unregulated psychological testing in action, welcome to my office, where I'll be making famous people uncomfortable in the name of science and light entertainment. Joe Marla will see you now. That's me, Joe Marla, I'll see you now. Listen now on BBC Sounds.