Miss Me? - Listen Bitch! What’s Your Best Era?

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

We really didn’t know where this one would go but thanks Miss Me? listeners, as ever the questions being asked on ‘eras of time’ are iconic. From whether the 90s really were the best, to whether calling everything an ‘era’ now has diluted the power of that word. Somewhere along the way Miquita and Jordan also end up in a debate over whether all celebrities can be called icons or if that’s reserved for the lofty artistic heights of just a few. Next week we’re after your voice note questions on CHEMISTRY. If you want to take it to chemical equations that’s as valid as a deep dive into Ryan Gosling’s chemistry with Rachel McAdams on The Notebook, just as an example. WhatsApp us on ‘chemistry’ to https://wa.me/447849030711Get weekly recommendations for things to watch or read or listen to from the Miss Me? Library every Friday at patreon.com/missmeFollow the show on instagram and TikTok @missme.4evaYou can contact Miss Me? on email at [e-mail] Presented by: Miquita Oliver and Jordan StephensProducer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Katie-Louise Buxton Video Editor: Danny PapeProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Sam MichellMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Listen Bitch. Hello, everyone. Thank you for being here at Listen Bitch. What a good idea we had last week. The theme for this week's Listen Bitch is ERIS of Time. To which is so ambiguous. Why is it making me laugh so much?

Euras of time. Let's have our first question. It's our first question. Hi, Mikita and Jordan. My name is Becky. I live in Sydney. I'm from London, from West London. So I often really want to visit back.

to my old home in West London in Shipsbush, where I grew up with my sister, my mom, dad, we lived on, you know, housing estate. Man, I'd just love to go back there and I dream about it, I dream about going into that place. And because I live in Sydney now, it's just like a different world and, yeah, a different time, different era. It's crazy. So wherever you ever wanted to go back to and just sit and just listen and see, thank you for everything. do. Bye. I'm so happy it was West London that she was feeling so emotional about because I feel very emotional about exactly the same place. And my real question would be like, why did you move so far away? Because as we said in last week's episode of meaty drop, I am a homebody and I never

understand how people can move so far away from where they're from. But Jordan is a nomad and can totally understand why someone would move so far away from such an emotional place. Yeah. But in terms of being the opposite, I actually am actively looking to move back to my version of this for this woman, which is Labrote Grove, because I have such an emotional relationship with it. But then I'm also worried that I'm going to move back to Grove for nostalgic reasons and feel stuck in my past. Yeah. Rather than returning to my past as a successful grown-up who wants to raise their family in a place where I grew up,

I'm worried that I'll feel like I'm trying to find something that's not there anymore. I only in the last year have gone back to Kensal Rise and been like, yeah, cool. Well, like, I like it here again. Yeah. I loved you living in Kensal Rise. I thought it really suited you, Kendall Rise. Really? Well, it doesn't know I drive.

I take that for free. Well, but that era of time probably also wasn't their health. Oh, you mean all the fucking drug-induced rolls three's in my flight is that what you're talking about. Yeah. Love, love sitting in those. Love sitting in that memory over there is where my friend relapsed. Yeah. So it's interesting though, because you had such a tumultuous era of time in Kensal Rise in West London. Yes. My West London years were fairly innocent. It's childhood, it's early teens. So it's quite a kind of rose-tinted past to return to. I would, for instance, never, if I go past that old street and I see my flat when I was

21, I'm like, because that's the era of time that I want to forget. I remember that place. Yeah, yeah. Where you lived with Melody. No, that was the third flat. Sorry, second flat. Oh. I'm talking about Eagle, Frodo. You're talking about when I lived in the middle of Shoreditch. Yeah, and we used to play pool. Yeah, we did. That's when you first acknowledged my existence. Yeah, we got really close. Like, I know your full. know now. Yeah. You're not just Kane's friend being reintroduced every year for six years. But it's interesting because why do people want to revisit an era of time when it could be disappointing? Because I think sometimes it's like cool to be to recognise how different a space

feels after the journey that you've been on. Yeah, totally. That's why I like going past old flats and being like actually the other day when I had my eight hour walk I went up the steps of a flat I used to have on Talbot Road when I was 26 it's the flat I went bankrupt in and it was a really hard flat to be in because they took it away from me and I went up the stairs just to stand like just to remember literally I mind putting my key in the fucking door because I was like let me just feel how different things are that was 15 years ago who am I now and and sometimes you've got like live it again, step through the past to see how far you've come. I would go to Hampstead Heath because when I was younger, my mum used to take me to

this one group of trees. And you know, I'm telling you obviously, disclaimer, miss me listeners, you're going to get bored of my, like, trees, that's my new, well, not new, but like, it's my growing fixation and adoration trees. That's not boring, you maniac. Wait, I didn't mean to say boring. I was, the disclaimer was just that I'm going to be talking about trees a lot. And that, and I think about that because I didn't go to Hampstead, in fact, sorry, I hadn't gone to Hampton Heath for a long time and then recently I went back with my dogs. And it was really, it meant a lot to me being in that space again as a whole different person. And then the madden thing about Hampstead Heath is that has literally been there for every

single era of my life and the trees themselves obviously have been there for my entire life. There's something interesting about you get older and you go back somewhere and it's The tree's still there. The tree's still there. And also, you're, like, a different size and stuff. Like, the trees are a different size. You feel, like, I feel like I'm remembering things more now than I did when I was younger.

I'm happy that you're excited to play in that and to be close to that. Don't start this, what's this narrative of me not being playful? I am, I am a... No, no, you're playful, but you did say nostalgia can be a disease. When did I say that? Enough. Recorded on a mic on this very show. I'm confused because I, I think.

think that life peaked in the 90s even though I was a baby. So I don't know where I've said that in terms of that's not a declaration of my stance. It's in simple acknowledgement that that was once a thing. Nostalgia was a sickness. A sickness, that was it. Yeah, like you get stuck, it don't get stuck in the past. If you really want to. Which is why we're doing eras of time. Exactly. Okay. That was lovely. That was a good start. Also, can I say, can I say, I also don't believe time's linear anymore. How about that? So why don't, why don't I throw that out? The beautiful thing for me is when I was a little boy next to these trees, I was also the adult me visiting the trees at the same time.

I just wasn't aware of it. Oh, wow. How about that? Shove that in your pipe and smoke it. Do you really feel that? I think that's what alignment is, personally. I don't want to get into my whole-time thesis, but like, I think that when we feel, when we go to a place that, like, we're like, oh, wow, I love this place,

or, oh, I love this food, or I've seen this person and whatever, it's because you've already done it. You know, the whole time loop thing, like you've already, you don't know when the loop started, but you're in it. So that experience, it resonates with you because you've already had it. You've already done it. Yeah.

Maybe that's what deja vu is. Perhaps, yeah. Fucking hell, now we're talking. Let's have another question. Hi, Makita, hi Jordan. My name's Laura, and I am leaving you a message from Cheshire. I want to know your opinion on people, using era to define like a really insignificant, well not insignificant, but just a period of their

life which isn't worthy of being defined as an era maybe. I see an era as something so significant and meaningful and yeah, just a very defining moment whereas it's like everybody's like, oh, I'm entering my angelic era or I'm entering my what's the era. And it's, I just find it so annoying. So I just wondered what your view was. Thank you so much. Love you by. Takes one to no one. If Laura doesn't realize, she is ironically firmly in her Larry David era. She is in her Larry David. She's heard, do you know how much joy it brings me to think as as an avid and passionate complainer as nearly my hobby? Maybe this is what this is might lean into what you think is non-playful of me. But she's heard she's heard someone say,

I'm entering my angelic era and she's gone, shut up. Yeah, yeah. You know what? What are you shut up? How about that? Like, like, angelic, what do you mean angelic? What does that even fucking mean?

The thing is, people do say stupid shit like that all the time and I'm with you, Laura. And Larry David would be complaining. And that's what I love because she's in a Larry David era. I too am in my Larry David era. Maybe I've got a toe in that water too, because I am incandescent with rage about the bastardization of certain beautiful words

like banter, icon, these were words that meant something. Banta? They fucking meant something. When did bantor means something? Banta's an old English word. It's a great old English word for a type of playful, jovial,

back and forth in conversation, in dialogue. But we have bastardised it into this like weak, lacking, nothingy, neggy chat. that doesn't deserve that brilliant, beautiful old word, and not to mention the abbreviation to Bance, don't even get me started. Bance is great. And the word icon as well, I think, was something that was really about something almost sacred. And now they say it about someone off Corey.

It's like, okay, whatever. So I'm with you in the bastardization of words. Listen, Makeet, I've told you this once, I'll tell you again, God is dead and everything is sex. No, you've never said that. God is dead and everything is sex. The icons have been... Also, fuck icons, man.

Sorry. Just going to throw it out there. No, but that's because it's thrown upon anything now. No, no. Even the great ones. They said, no singular. No singular. We're done. We're done. Plural, please.

I'm not looking to follow one's guidance. I did this. I've already looked into this. With Josh at the Frida Carlo exhibition, we were like, what's the origins of the word icon? You're trying to tell me that there's a difference between Frida Carlo and Alison Hammond. Are you trying to... No, I'm not.

I'm being dead ass. You're trying to tell me there's a difference. You bastard. Makeda, I'm being dead serious. I know, but you're a bastard because you know that's exactly what I mean. There's no difference. I'm sorry. I'm down that hill. Fight me.

This is difficult. This is difficult. I think what Alison Hammond and Friedrich-a-carlo... I think what Alison Hammond... Fuck you. Because I do think what Alison Hammond did From where she started is something to be really... She's a fucking icon!

She's a really successful broadcaster. She broke a bench on a reality show and now she's interviewing Ryan Gosling. What do you do? So you're telling me that everyone that was on a reality TV show that now interviews a celebrity is that's an iconic thing to do. Name one other.

Yeah, I will. Name one other person who's had the trajectory of Alison Hammond. It's a reality show to shitty daytime TV show. Yeah, there's been quite a few. Go on. Olivia, what's the face? Olivia Atwood?

I know, she's not on daytime TV. Great documentary. Don't let me do that again. Don't make me get into that again. Okay, but what I'm saying is reality TV to like broadcaster isn't that big a deal anymore at all. No single human has done the trajectory of Alison Hammond. Someone just gave me one.

Ryland. Thank you. Thank you, Nat. Ryland, unfortunate comments recently. Do you think he's an icon? He was. Based by my own subjective view on the world. My selective for you.

It used to be an icon. You know what? He's had some iconic traits. This is it. Right, this is the point. An icon is a small picture, symbol or representation that stands for a function person or an idea, right? A person or thing widely admired for great importance, skill or influence. And this is a problem because the word influence has been fucked with as well.

And we've done this and we're not going to do it again. Okay, you are, yes, you, okay, you are, I'm sensing something. some Larry David. I'm sensing it from you right now, Makita. It's alive and well. This is just Makita Oliver anger. Influent. What are you even influencing? What you even do? It just make people smile because of your existence. Fuck off.

No, that's not, no, that's not what I've said. In the past, what I've said is that there is a difference between being influential, like having influence and being an influencer. And I'm not going to go into why, because we've done it on many episodes. People should know now my stance on me. this. So if that's bastardised, then the idea of having great importance gets bastardised, so the idea of being an icon gets bastardised. Like, it's all just fucked because it's all being messed with. It's all

being kind of reduced and turned into something smaller, with a big name put on it. Does that make sense? So, listen. No, I don't think Alison Hammond and Frida Carlos share the same influential space. And neither do I. I know you're fucking with me, but I still think it needs, but I still think it needs to be said because people would call both figures icons. I think Alison Harmon is a lovely woman and she's done a beautiful thing for her own life.

Good for fucking her. But it's not an iconic journey in the arts. Can I put some context into what I'm saying? And this is answering the question too. I think in life I quite enjoy taking a pre-existent.

idea to its fullest extent, even if I don't like it, right? So my umbrage, love a good word, with my umbrage with the idea that like eras and icon have become words that have been diluted, instead of me going, let me reclaim the pre-existing ideas of those words, I'll go, why have those words lost power? And what, and what does that mean going forward? forwards because because I like the idea that words evolve. I actually like that. And I, and I, and I, and I get, and I get my, I get a little bit like, uh, like time moves on that we don't say ye. We don't say ye. We don't say ye older pastures, you know, one must like, I love that language moves on. I think the evolvement of words is beautiful, but I don't think it's, I don't think it's an evolvement of a word for it to be diluted and to mean less.

It literally is though. It literally is though. Whether or not you, Whether or not you agree is another thing or whether it's reflective of something worrying to you, that's another conversation. But it's an evolution. No, I think if a word is aligned to something of importance, then it always should be aligned to something of importance. But then we change what something being important means.

Yes, that's interesting. That's what's interesting. I think it's interesting. Gay used to mean happy. These things evolve. Maybe. It doesn't have the same tenacity because language evolves. Listen, one of the greatest,

one of the greatest contributors to language, if not the greatest contributor, is Shakespeare and he literally made it up. He made the words up. People would be there going, why is this man just saying words? That man or woman, who knows, history, or a group of people, various theories.

Why is he just saying what the bloody out does assassin mean, you know? Actually, assassin is an 11th century Arabic word, which Shakespeare then turned into assassination. assassination. Yeah, but he didn't make up Bambaclut, so, you know. Nah, no, no. There's always room for improvement.

That was us. That was our people. Damn right. Jamaican's out here making... That was on another island. Listen, they're responsible for some fucking incredible evolutions of language. Absolutely. Which are now used in Made in Chelsea.

Do you like that evolution? What, when? Who said that? Someone said Bamba clot are made in Chelsea. No, but they definitely say, Waguan, brother. Yeah. People have said that to me in real life from Chelsea.

And that's the evolvement. Well, that's another evolvement of words. Well, listen, I take, I say white things like, wait, wait, wait, let me listen. This is really funny. This is really funny. I saw someone talk about this on TikTok. This fucking killed me and I screenshot it. Sorry, I'm saying this.

You can't stop me. Look, so someone said this online and they went, why are you saying, why are white people using black phrases when you've got so many iconic phrases of your own? And then people just started listing, listing like white cultural, phrases and I'm going to list some of them one is try that on for size you're barking up the wrong tree pal you've got your own it goes uh it goes I've had it up to here pal yeah you and what army get a load of this guy that's all these things you're treading on thin ice

buddy I get it I get it I get it let it let it let it let it let it let it let it let it let it let's have another question. You're treading on thin ice buddy. See, I quite like those though because they're classics. How'd you like those apples? How do you like them apples? That is a good one. How do you like their apples? They're brilliant. I would use them, mate. I'd appropriate that culture.

I might bring back how do you like them apples? How do you like them apples? Yeah, he does it in goodwill hunting and he goes, he goes, he goes, do you like apples to the guy that was trying to sleep with Mini Driver? They're both hitting on Mini Driver and he goes, do you like apples? And he goes, Yeah.

Then he goes, boom. Well, I got a number. How do you like them apples? Peak. Come on. Peak. Clocule white culture. Let's go.

That's right. Newsflash, buddy. Can we have another question, please? Otherwise, we'll live here all day. Newsflash. Hi, Jordan and Makita. My name's Beth. My question for you on ERAs, have you watched Seven Up?

So my mum said to me the other day, have you heard of Seven Up? And I was like, what, the drink? No. Literally, the most. most important documentary ever made. So it started in the 1960s and they picked 14 different kids from different social classes and the concept was that they'd check in with them every seven years. I believe that the original kind of like quote that inspired it was, show me a man until show me a boy until he seven and I'll show you the man. Obviously the documentary has been going

for a long time but if you watch it all the installments in like close succession, it is wild because you suddenly have a bird's eye view of someone's life. You see them at 7, 14, 21. It is wild and it made me feel really emotional. And I think it is because you see how quick life is and how sacred life is. And we certainly do not treat each other's lives or our own lives in that way. It's so profoundly moving. And I would just love to know if you've watched it and what your thoughts are.

Loads of love. Bye. Thank you for that pretty beautiful. question and for bringing seven up to miss me. That's the kind of union I like. Yes, I'm very aware of seven up. I don't think I've watched all of it, but I think I've watched some of it. Have you seen any of it? No, I haven't, but I've heard about it a lot and I think it's incredible. It's a beautiful, a beautiful thing to do. I'm going to watch that shit. What does you say? Profoundly moving. I imagine it really is because I can't really watch anything at the moment without

thinking it's profoundly moving. So I remember I was watching something yesterday and it was like all this like real life footage of a village in the 70s in Britain. And I just suddenly felt very emotional about the fact that a lot of these people would be dead now or very old. And it's like, that's just really standard shit, but it just really, sometimes that just affects you, just that very simple fact of life. And how quickly it goes. Yeah, how fucking quickly it goes. Like, why does it have to be so fleeting and quick? Why does it feel like it's flashing before your eyes? Like, that is, that does make me emotional. There's, there's such a lack of... Fleeting and quick. Yeah, there's such a lack of...

of control over the passing of time. You just can't do anything about it. It just is happening. That's what makes it worth it, right? I know. No, I know. Because imagine, right, if we lived forever, everything would lose meaning.

We wouldn't do anything. We wouldn't do anything. And we'd probably do bad things a lot, I think, because you'd be like, no, you can still get killed. Maybe you'd be more aware that you have to live in consequence forever and ever. But, like, if there wasn't this unbelievably unpredictable,

unknown time frame to your life. How would you live? Yeah. Do you think you'd be riskier if you were like, Jordan, if someone said, don't worry, you're going to die at 76 with a bullet through the heart, I'm afraid.

That's how you're going to die at 76 in Nepal. It's actually a really cool thought. I've always done the other, I've always done the thought experiment the other way around. It's really cool to do it that way around. I've not actually done that. I've, especially this year, I've felt, well, I felt incredibly mortal.

I felt my approach to life in this year has been like, why do I think that the rest of my life is promised? Right. I have no idea what could happen next week. And so if someone said to me, like, you're going to die in a couple weeks, I ask myself, am I living in the truth of what brings me joy? You know, that's, that's what, that's a question about, but the other question is really interesting because I think that's more what the story we're told, right? is that we assume that we have something like another 40 years. And so you're asking yourself, how would you want to live those 40 years? So people obviously start planning and building and nesting because that's how they look at things.

And I actually, I think it's cool that you've said that because I actually don't do that a lot. I don't think, I've never really assumed that I'd live that long. I'm only just getting over the fact that I haven't fucking taken so many drugs that I've kicked it at like 20. Really? So I've always been so certain that I'm here for a very long. very long life. No, not for me. But I also have object permanence.

Like, I barely know what's going on next week, let alone when I'm 75. Yes. Yes, you don't plan ahead. I don't. I don't. And I think that's, you know,

maybe that's just the kind of person I am. But that's very present living, right? That's very living in the moment. I worry about the future a lot. I think I'm making choices that would essentially, without any intervention would make my life longer. You know, I treat my body with respect.

Absolutely. And I think also when you went through all of that therapy, when you first started going into it and really started like looking at your life and like, you know, doing the work. Yeah. I felt like that was you thinking for the first time about the kind of man you wanted to be in the future. Yeah. And the kind of life you wanted to have. I guess, yes, I hear you.

But it was just as much, if not more, me looking at the patterns of my past rather than, I didn't really know what the future would be. I just knew that the decisions I'd made into that point were not working for me. Because my cousin, Sasha, said yesterday, she said, Theo's wife, she said, don't worry twice, which I really like, but she said something about, oh yeah, what we do for our future selves. Yeah, future self, yeah, that's true. Yeah. That's true.

And Sasha and just even little ways, though, Sasha and Theo went on holiday, and they were like, let's clean the house top to bottom. So let me get back at last, yeah, fact. And they came back and they were like, save Sasha last week for doing this for Sasha today. Yes, yes, yes. And I was like, that's a really incremental change. that you can frequently put in your life that really does make to change your life for the better and make your life feel different.

I agree with you. And I guess the extent of that is where I get a bit confused is where it's like that's good, I think, in small doses. But I guess when does that end in terms of a whole life? Like if you're constantly building your life around your future self, what happens when you get to that self? Yeah. Let's say you're in a job and you work that job for 45 years. in the promise that you're going to get some money released

and then you'll be free from the job and whatever else, right? Your, the argument would be, is that worth the 20 years of freedom? Or have you just lost 45 years of sacrifice? Ah, ah, Jordan. I'm just saying, I'm just asking a question. I'm not, I don't have a... Yeah, but that's...

Because that's what we're told, but that's a story. The story is you work hard, you put the money away, and then eventually you're released. I mean, hilariously, it's like at 66 now, retirement. But eventually there's a point. But then this is the ethical question is like, and why people turn around and go, actually,

I'm going to take it here and, you know, fucking buy a van and drive around Europe. Like, it's because you think like... Well, that's why I started ropes. I was like, how can I play forever? Yeah, sure. Fair enough. Fair enough.

You know what I mean? Quite literally. Because my whole life is work. How can I make that work as playful as possible? And I do make sure that it is as playful as. I can over at ropes. Well, I think just for balance, I think there is another world where people work to ensure, like, for example, I remember watching a TikTok of this guy, I actually put

the TikTok in at the end of one of the Rizzle Kick songs on the last album, but he was talking about how there's a guy who works in his local food store, and that has been there for his entire life. And eventually he asked him, like, why have you not tried to get like another job or a better job, basically? And this guy was like, I earn enough money to see my family and see my family makes me happy. Oh. That's it. That's it. And so for that person, great. And I'm very happy for them.

I don't know if I could do that. I do sometimes think if I had another life. Have I said this? I would love a quiet one. What do you mean? Just a little bit quieter than this one. Wait, quiet in what sense? Just calm. Just like in the back, not forward facing. Doing what? I don't know. Maybe I'd work at a pub.

Ah. I might work in a shop. You want a smaller? You want a, like a minimal? No, no, it's not, but it's not smaller. It can be as big as it wants to be. It's just big in a different way. Yeah, small is the wrong word, but it just mean like minimal.

I just would want to not be well known. Yeah, oh my God, same. And have lots of kids, maybe young. Yeah. And just like go to the pub at the weekends and cook a lot and hopefully be in a really good relationship and like grow a family and just. the kids, I'm sly with you on a young kids thing, man.

I do, I can see the perks of that. Having kids early, yeah. But like, can you raise them as a question, I guess? But anyway. Alrighty, let's have another question. And eras of time. This is Audrey from Dublin. So the era question is a really good one.

Because it's mad. Like, the 90s for me, musically, was definitely the best. But, like, I was in. In school, being badly bullied. But then music was like my little savior in those times. So as much as I'd like to go back to the 90s, it would only be for the music. So it's like I'd like to mix loads of errors together

and then and create, like, I'd love the music of the 90s to be out now while I'm in my 40s. But yeah, what eras would you blend together? Like in terms of music and where you are in your life? You know what I mean? Because that's where it's hard to pick where I was, that you'd have the perfect.

blend of amazing music, feeling great and everything was going your way. Yeah, which was yours be? I love Audrey from Dublin. Thank you, Audrey. Do you know what? I wouldn't want to blend music and another era because for me an era is so definable by the music that was there for me then. Like, I couldn't put the cranberries in, like, 2004.

That's not when they were there. 90s was the best fucking era for music. everyone shut up. Five genres peaked in the 90s. But would you mix? Would you say you'd want who you were in the early noughties and then the music from the 90s? Don't you just want everything from the 90s? The style, the fashion, the vibes, the politics, the ideas, the music. The politics, new labour.

Politics, new labour, we're in a great place. Yeah, but I mean, that didn't work out, right? Great, did it? You know what I mean? No, but it was a time of hope. It was a type of benefits. I like the benefits. Yeah. You know, that's how we create genres because everyone could just like, fucking get a bit of cash and then they end up making a whole different...

The doll was good. Yeah, I owe a lot to the doll. Yeah, me too. But how much do you... What is it about the 90s that makes you so happy, Jordan? Like I said, it peaked rave culture, incredible, space jam, amazing film. Then you have like a grunge peaked in the 90s, Nirvana, Brit pop peaked in the 90s,

rock peaked in the 90s, hip-pop peaked in the 90s, hip-pop, public enemy, like, de la soul, tribal quest. Like, honestly, there are... You could even argue house was peaking in the 90s. The only thing that wasn't peaking was pop. So do you think the 90s was the birth of so much? Oh, sorry, not birth of stuff. So just more a frenetic peaking time of things that had recently been birthed.

I just like, honestly, man, and I think about it, you know, you might maybe take the Nokia 3210 from like 2002, drag that back into the 90s just to give people the option to call people rather than have pages. But like outside of that, like it was shit was fire like TV shows you had Matrix 99 that was right there and Matrix is probably one of the best ones I've ever made

you had X Files X files he had the beginning of soprano apparently pop was great in the 90s that's according to our producer and that I'm just saying that people would listen I've I've been in a world of pop obsession for a long time now and I'm telling you that most people think

pop peaked in the Nauties I'm just throwing it out there okay well as someone who was hosting a pop music show in the Nauties I'm sorry I agree with you Nat it was better in the 90s. It was dog shit when I was doing pop world. Dog shit. Okay, so do you want to name, can you name five pop stars? Pop stars?

Yeah. From the 90s. Eternal. No, no, no, no. Pop stars. So I'm talking like Madonna is one. Brittany's not 90s. Oh no, she's 99.

No, Britney's the naughties, yeah. Christina Aguilera, naughties. You want pop stars from the 90s? That is actually NSYNC, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera. They all crossed over into the millennium, but the end of the 90s was good for pop stars. I'm sorry, Chrisana Gilares, it's Nauties. Come on.

Come on. I don't think there wasn't good pop in the 90s, but I'm just saying in terms of like the peak of like all these big superstars releasing these songs. Well, maybe I'm wrong. Whatever. You can say it as a 90s. I would actually go back to the early noughties.

Even though it feels like a bit of a weird kind of nondescript time, I was having a fucking good time right in the beginning. 2004, particularly. I loved being 20. That was good. Sorry, I'm just looking at Christina Galler. It was 99 was her first album as a Tina Idol and then 2002 was stripped. Was stripped?

Yes, exactly. Which was her second, I'm a grown-up album but the big first hype was the end of the 90s. But I'm going to do a plot twist. What I would do actually is I want to shout out the 70s because what I miss is men singing about heartbreak. Oh, yeah, and they did it so.

well then. That's the era I fucking miss. You had a bit of that in the 90s to be fair. But like, and I'm not saying men aren't still doing it, but I'm just like those fucking like Algreen, Marvin Gay, like Stevie like these lot are just going like these lot are like I can't

I can't exist without your company like this fact there ain't no mountain high enough there's not a single ain't no mountain Johnny Hathaway, if I ever lose you know what I mean? Like these men's hearts were bleeding, brough. They're out here just going.

What's the Al Green song, which is in Pulp Fiction? I sit so in love with you. Yeah, let's stay together, that's top ten for me. I'm so in love. Whatever you want to do is all right with me. Oh my God, if someone said that to me, I'd be like, let's get married. so in love with you, whatever you want to do is all right with me. Do you know what I'm saying?

Bars. Bars. Bars. Yes, I think we can safely say the 70s soul scene had great lyricists. Stevie Wonder, can I say it as well while we're here? Greatest musician of all time. I can't, while we're here, I agree with you. Yeah, he's clear of everyone. And people, people will say it when, God forbid, when he passes. Because it's like, God forbid. Like, like, and I think even Prince would say it.

I think you'd back it. Yeah, and Prince would be my second. But that's what I always say to God, we'll talk about eras of time. Like, I really talk to my parents about it. I'm like, don't just tell me like a bit about a party. Like, tell me what it's smelt like in the Shabine in 83. In the 80s.

Because I've lived a life. David Bowie was drinking milk and taking cocaine. Yeah, but I've lived a life because of the age I am and the time I was born, I've lived a life with unseen hedonism. and all eyes on you turning into social, like press, paparazzi shit with Lil, turning into social media where all fun is taken away because of awareness of self

and awareness of being watched and watching each other. But I didn't, but the half I had in hedonism unwatched was quite short. And Garfield's entire 20s and 30s were that. So I just, I ask him a lot about just the sensibility of people and the way people approach things because we weren't being watched or watching each other in the same way. And it's, you know, it changes a complete attitude. Yeah, facts.

So that's what I miss. Oh, yeah. I miss that idea of being naughty and no one's looking. Facts. Yeah, cool. And that is the 80s. Let's have a final question. Good morning. A period of a life that changed you. I think every day when we choose to change and evolve and make an adjustment to be better or take a step. step to become and who we want to become is evolutionary. But I think the time in my life when I have the most is when you let yourself down,

or if I've let myself down and you kind of evaluate, that really doesn't align with who I want to be and what I want. And I just wondered if you could relate. Fuck yeah. It's called betraying yourself. And when you get older, you can't not hear it anymore. I was talking about this the other day with cousin Fibb. And she was like, what is that thing?

What's that thing when you can't do it anymore? It was like, it's when you can hear and feel yourself, betraying yourself. And I used to be able to betraying myself really easily for months, years, and now I can't do it, which is a great thing. But it means you have to confront a lot more, a lot earlier. Usually you could be like in a bad relationship for four years. And then you're like, oh, I think I might be betraying myself. Now I'd know that within a month.

or a week, and I'd be like, I have to do something about this, because I can't live in the betrayal of myself anymore, and the way I used to, maybe because I don't take loads of drugs anymore, but when I did, I could just like, but now I've done too much work, and I know too much about myself, and I've lived a longer life. So, yeah, so there's a lot of confronting in my life as an outcome of that, which I quite like, but it's fucking terrifying. I think that's really cool that you feel that way as well about betraying himself.

I think that's a good thing to acknowledge. I definitely have that. People, you know, people pleasing is a thing I'm trying not to do so much. That's betrayal of self. Yeah. And the lady said, is there an era of time where you remember changing? And yeah, of course, I'll never forget 35. That outlook on life is so powerful, right? Because we, again, we have been convinced or we've been led to believe that failure is a negative thing. And then Elizabeth Day changed it all with our podcast. But just largely speaking, it's like it's so, you know, failure, failure can quite quickly become a golden ticket if we're willing to view it as such. You know what I'm saying?

I think that's the issue. Well, all problems can. Like, I told you what I read in the Tina Turner book that the size of the problem in your life is the opportunity for positivity. Like the size of the problem. So if it's a minor problem, the opportunity. for positivity is quite minor. But if it's a major problem, the opportunity for positivity is major.

Yeah. And that's why you say, congratulations, when someone tells you they have problems. Yeah. You go, congratulations, you have so many things that you can do here. Opportunity is all around you.

Yes, I think I get that. It's not easy. Yeah, I mean, and to answer, yeah, to answer the question, I've, like, honestly failed so much. Like, I regret, I regret so much. You know, that is, that's, I guess, that's almost defined.

It's almost defined me, I think, is in looking at my patterns of behaviour and thinking like, maybe I can make a change here and see what the outcome is of that. And it doesn't, it's not always right. But I don't want to live in fear of it being wrong. Right. And rather than looking back at a past and going, clean slate, good me. It's like, no, of course not. No, of course not.

But what people don't want to do. Like, you agree with this. You don't want to work from fear. No one should be operating from fear. And Jordan, it's really brave to be able to even just look at your, as the lady said, other eras of time and look at when you've betrayed yourself. I agree. It's really hard.

It's really confronting this stuff. But I'm trying to see these new confrontations in my life as opportunity because they always are. They just always are. Also, yes. And also, we need to remember that the betrayal of self is the betrayal of community. That's another important point. because one of the hardest aspects of love

is that we think that we are protecting somebody by limiting ourselves, right? That's what people pleasing is, right? Like, we're betraying ourselves in search of approval from another person or in search of protecting another person whether or not they've consented to that, right? And actuality, if we're true to ourselves, then we provide our community with having an actual option to deal with, right?

So like if someone has been, said something you don't like or they're acting in a way you don't like, instead of being like, I'm afraid that they'll abandon me. So I'm going to just be nice about it, which like a lot of people do, which is understandable. If we were to be like, I don't like how you said that and this is how I'm going to act,

then that person has an actual choice to make. And that could be one of the most important choices in their life. You know, you're giving someone back an actual true choice in their life. And that's why, you know, like I was talking, someone another day about people being overly compassionate, right? They're saying about how some people will stay in bad relationships because they're, in inverted commas, too compassionate to the other person's experience. They'll say, oh, but they've had a hard childhood and whatever else. And then my response

was, that's not genuine compassion. If you were genuinely compassionate to somebody who's had a bad childhood, you would provide them with a boundary. That's compassionate, is to go, you're not treating me, right? So I'm going. And I'm going because I love you. Get out. Which isn't easy, by the way. I'm not, I'm saying it like it's easy. It's not easy. But I'm just explaining that like...

Of course it's not easy. And I'm saying this from my experience, by the way. I'm not... It's like, you know, we shouldn't conflate the idea of like being, yeah, compassionate and being loving because sometimes it's really unloving to not tell somebody how you're being treated. That's not a good thing. To you. Yes, absolutely. Exactly.

Yeah. For them. Okay, I'm taking... I'm taking this on board. Okay, cool, that's it. Cheers. All right there. We've all learned something, as always.

See you later, Slags. The theme for next week's Listen, Bitch, is going to be... Chemistry. Bit of science, a bit of people. Fucking love that. I wish it was my idea. It wasn't. It was Ellie in Australia.

It will never be your idea. Well, do you mean it will never be my idea? Do you know any bloody listen bitch ideas I've thrown out into the wind? Like two and a half years worth. Thank you very much. So thank you, Ellie. I needed some help. And I think chemistry is bloody brilliant.

Bloody brilliant. Jesus. Okay, bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persephoneka show.