Miss Me? - Love and Mawwiage… with Mabel

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Miquita Oliver and Mabel discuss marriage, Africa and the music industry.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. If you have been affected by any of the issues raised, you can find support via the BBC Action Line: https://bbc.co.uk/actionline/ Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hi, Mumu. Hi. Look at you and your fat yard made. Well, God, you're such a success. I don't know about that. No, no self-deprecating today. This is true. No, none of that in 25. This is not the space for that. And if you won't do it for yourself, I'll do it for you.

But I called Tyson, your sister, my cousin. Yeah. Because Will said, oh, there's loads of people in the kitchen. There's a baby here. And I thought, oh my God, it means Tyson and the baby are here. And then I made Tyson and the baby come from your mom's house next door to bring that beautiful baby to give us some love for Miss Me. My mom's here too.

Come on, Tyson and baby. Hi, guys. Hi. Look at Tyson in her bonnet. Tyson, I thought you were Nana. Look at you yourself. Oh my god. They're saying you're very cute. Oh hi.

You're so cute. How cute. How cute. I can't even stand it. You look just like your mama. You look just like your mum. Me too. I'm Naima because of your glasses. Okay.

Love you. But this is how it gets done. I'm going to go and get my glasses. I'm going to go and get my glasses. I'm going to go and get my glasses. I'm going to go and get my glasses. I'm going to go and get my glasses. I'm going to go and get my glasses. I'm going to go and get my glasses. I'm going to go and get my glasses. I can't even stand it. You look just like your mama. You look just like your mum. I'm Naima because of your glasses. Okay.

Love you. But this is how it is quite often at your yard because you do have a big beautiful house that I need to remind you because I wanted to talk to you today about sort of life timelines and when we feel like there are ages we should have done certain things. And you got that house at, were you 27? 20? No, I must have been 25. Stop. Oh my god. Yeah, because I guess we did. Are you still here?

Yeah, you can go. I'm not sure why you're still here. Andy Oliver. You can go. We're talking about unprofessional lives. Right. So 25, you get this house here, because I guess you did it up for a bit. And it's become this, you know, this house where all the family are, it's housed a lot of people. I feel like it's like maybe like, dare I say it, the new Gloucester Crescent? Loki is the new Gloucester Crescent. But I feel like is that not just our family vibe, like we've always just had, there's always been like one or maybe two houses at the same time that just like everybody, those are the places that you go. And I feel like growing up in the friendship group, it was always like, we were always going to my parents

house. Yes, definitely. But that's because Gloucester Crescent was such a yard. It's so nice though. We should say, when I was fit, this is my cousin Mabel, obviously. And when I was- Oh yeah. Hi guys. And when I was 14, I think I would have been 14, because I was two years before Portworld, I moved in with my auntie and all my cousins and my uncle. Yeah.

Because my parents had lost everything and they were moving to a one bedroom council flat and there was no room for me. I literally didn't have anywhere to go. And this side of the family just took care of me. You were all so beautiful and fuck it changed my life. But Mabel with her big heart, even at five years old, when I got to the house, I realized that I actually was sort of sleeping under an alcove under the stairs. Not the Harry Potter, not the not the cupboard under the stairs. It was an alcove. I was like, this is so generous of you, but it was. Really? Is this where I'm staying?

In the big five-floor townhouse at Primrose Hill. But I was like, I'm going to make it work. This is my life now. And you went for a little talk with Nana and Cameron and then came back and said, they've said Mabel said you can have her bedroom. And for two years I had Mabel's bedroom and you moved into your parents' room so that I could have a space. Do you remember doing that for me?

I mean, I do remember, but I don't think that it was like as selfless as you think it is. I think there was some kind of deal cut into that. Like, I'm pretty sure that like, I got some money or like, didn't you have to like take me shopping every weekend or something? Well, well, well, it's definitely just happy to hang out with you whenever. But I obviously, I remember thinking, God, that child is such a martyr. So let's don't ruin that for me. That's how I like remembering you. Okay. It was also didn't you live in that hot pink bedroom for two years? Yes. No, and on a but I slept on a bunk bed, because it was a five year old room. But then

it's all right. Because Neymar went off and got pregnant in Spain. I got her room at the top. Oh, yeah, then you moved up to the big the big boy room. But then it's all right because Neymar went off and got pregnant in Spain and I got her room at the top. Oh yeah. Then you moved up to the big, the big boy room. I went to the penthouse, Rob. I was like, sailing through the yard. But that was a really, that was a big, beautiful house, but a really special house. It was on Gloucester Crescent in Primrose Hillie Camden. And it's a road where Alan Bennett lived, that, that film, The Lady in the Van. It's that, it's that road. Oh yeah. If you see it, it's weird because you're like, oh my God, it's like opposite our house. There was really cool people that lived on that street.

We were really lucky. Anyway, big heady house full of a lot. It was a pivotal moment in my life because I got pop world while I lived at that house. I wondered what you thought about becoming famous and successful really young because obviously your mom is a famous person and always has been in your life. But to watch me as a teenager do all that. What did you think? I feel like it just made you hungry and wanting it. Yeah, definitely. I always just thought that like you were like the coolest thing. And then I remember, I guess, yeah, around sort of like five, six,

maybe finding my own sort of likes and dislikes. And I remember I bought the Justified album with my own pocket money. Finally, like getting, you know, my own taste and being at the age where like something like Pop World for me was also just regardless of you being my cousin was just such a cool show. Right, do you think? It was so good. It's still so good. You're the only one in the family that still sends me old videos of it.

I'm like Mabel please. Slaps! Slaps! It was so good. Thanks. And you know, it was my first like big flex because, yeah, mum obviously was famous, but I don't feel like ever or is famous. I don't feel like maybe at that age, I really like understood. It took me a lot longer to kind of understand how cool and iconic my mum is.

Whereas like, for me, that was like my first big flex going to school and being like, yeah, that's my cousin. That's my cousin. Oh, I'm so happy. She lives in my bedroom. She lives in my bedroom. True story, she actually does though. She lives in my bedroom.

I've never actually asked you what you feel about having Nana Cherry as a mother, because your mum has always been, even though she was quite domesticated when you were born, that was her very domesticated years. Yeah. But I mean, obviously my mum's well known now, but that's quite recent. Your mum has always been very famous, your whole life. Yeah. I mean, I guess the beautiful thing about kids, right, is that you kind of just adapt to whatever it is you're doing. So like, apparently I took my first steps on a tour bus.

But when you're like little, I don't think that you're like, oh, this is weird. You don't really think about it, you're just doing it. So maybe when I got a little bit older and then people would be like, oh, you know, can I take a picture with you or whatever to mum? Maybe then I would be like, oh, okay. So like I started gaining an understanding of that. Okay, she's famous and maybe this isn't totally like normal. But to me, she was and always will just be mum.

Yeah, yeah. Have you read the book? I have read the book. Nana Cherry, A Thousand Threads, Mabel's Mum's, I guess memoir. I fucking read it on this holiday. Did you? Oh God.

Did it break you? Actually, yeah. Yeah. I didn't think it would. Yeah, same. I don't really want to talk about all the trauma. Yeah. But I actually, we did talk about it when we were at Sashis birthday, because I hadn't read the part about Nana being attacked.

And you know, it's like that kind of dark, murky, terrifying story in like the background of the family history that I never wanted to know details about, you know what I mean? Like you knew, I knew enough, all I knew was Battersea. And I was like, that's enough for me to know. Oh, it was, it was so, um, like I knew it was in there, but again, you, it kind of just is one of those things that happened that we don't really talk about. And so for me, actually reading it in detail was super tough. And also just the fact that I've been through my own experiences with men that have been like that, where I felt totally powerless.

And it also opened a really important conversation, I think, between mom and I about like, although what happened to her and some of the things that have happened to me may look different, that actually like, you don't talk enough, I think, amongst women. Like I didn't know for a long time, like, you know, you can know the person that rapes you, right? Like you can know your attacker. But to me, I was like, well, if you know them,

like, how was it? Or like, if it's my boyfriend, you know, wasn't something that you spoke about at school. It wasn't like, do you know what I mean? No, and actually, I think with Nana's story, because it's so strange, I hope Nana doesn't mind us talking about this. I hope she doesn't mind because it is in the book. But because it is a stranger in the street, I just was like, okay, that's rape. Yeah. Stranger in the street. Yeah, exactly. Stranger in the street, dark alley, like you're like, okay, that's rape.

But actually like opening up a conversation and realizing like, oh, okay, actually, that it's not so black and white. And that actually so many more women have experienced things that are just as traumatizing and just as like dark and sort of shaking that will change your whole life, where it's just a little bit sort of grayer. But do you talk to pre- we must say that you are, Mabel's engaged, Mabel's engaged. I'm engaged, bye. I'm getting married. Getting married, Helen.

I'm so ready for a wedding. Like, you know, in the country is like excited about a royal wedding. That's how our family feel about Mabel getting married. It's like, here we go, fasten your seatbelts. But not only getting married, I do want to talk about marriage and weddings. Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there. I'm very into both as you know. But I want to talk about your man, Priye. Firstly, do you talk to Priye about things that have happened in the past with you?

Or do you feel too scared to talk about stuff with him? No, I think it's actually been really important. It's probably why this relationship is my healthiest relationship ever. When I met Priya, I'd been totally celibate and not even talking to guys. I did 365 days. Was that voluntary? I didn't know that was voluntary. You're so rude! No, because we were both a bit celibate and I didn't know that we were, I didn't know that we'd made a decision.

I think maybe after like three months I was like, okay, I'm just going to like do this because I kept choosing the same guy in different shapes. Do you know what I mean? Like the same personality, the same like, and then you get messed around, whatever. And then it would be another story for me to like, you know, with my girls, like, and then he did this and then he didn't. And I just was like, hold on a second. I must be doing something. I may be part of this in some way. I may be the problem or at least part of the problem. God, this is just what Jordan was saying to me on holiday. He's all like,

you need to pivot from tight. But I'm like, okay. Yeah, it's so true though. Like everything that I thought that I wanted was like, literally the last thing that I needed. Oh my God, because I remember the first night we met Priya. Actually, I wasn't there for the night. I was there for like the preamble before the night where you were like, not interested in this guy coming around. He wants to come around on New Year's and he's not for me. I just was like, he's too nice. He's like stable. I think you thought he was square. Yeah. Look at him all stable and safe.

And safe. And like, I just was like, he has like, you know, a normal job and he's not going to like get me and just- Not funky enough. You thought he wasn't funky enough, didn't you? I did. I did. I did. And I remember him saying like he he would like ask me how I am. And I'm like, what do you want? We're so traumatized. What's the catch here?

What's traumatized? Because honestly, all I wanted to do was sit around chasing some guy that probably didn't reply, probably had a secret baby, secret girlfriend. All happened by the way. All true. All true stories. All true stories. Sad but it's true. And yeah, like that's what I wanted. That like feeling that I thought was passion was actually just drama. So I remember meeting Priya and just being like, well, you're really nice. You're really stable.

It's actually all there. And kind of like knowing that that was probably going to be it. Like he would probably be it. And also being like not ready for it. Yeah, for it. Just knowing that if I was ready and I came correct, that he was probably going to be able to give me everything that I'd ever wanted. But I was like, well, you can't just like give it to me.

Because that's a terrifying idea. It's like getting everything you wanted doesn't actually ever feel as good as you think it feels overwhelming and usually it incites quite a lot of fear. It's like, so much fear. And then it takes a lot of fear. It's like so much fear and that it takes a lot of work as well. Also knowing that like it was going to be like an actual relationship. We were going to have to work on things and we were not just going to be like having toxic arguments and like drunk dialing each other. No, like sharing the actual mess of being in an intimate life relationship together. Yeah.

I don't think I've ever done that. It's terrifying. It's also the best thing ever, but I kind of knew that. So subconsciously when I met Priya, I was just like, no, he's too normal. He's not going to get this. He's too nice. He's not going to get this funk. I love that.

He's not going to get the roller coaster. That is me. And then I just was like, we always had the best time when we hung out. And then I think, yeah, we spent that New Year's together. And then I got terrified and I went to LA for like a few months. Did you? Did you freak out? Yeah. I just was like, I can't do this. Good luck on your future endeavors, basically.

No, no way. And did Priyo wait? No, he was like totally caught about it. He carried on with his life. good luck on your future endeavors basically. No way and did Priyo wait? No, he was like totally caught about it. He carried on with his life. I think he did maybe see some people. What? Yeah, but he was always just like, he was like, well I'm here, you know, we can be friends and like, and then when I came back to London, he was the first person that I wanted to see. Then we became really good friends. And then it was just like, so what, you're just like my best friend and I'm really attracted to you, isn't that like kind of what relationships went to be? And my mom and dad used to call him Cambridge because he went to Cambridge.

We should probably talk about Prié Crookes' stock. Let's absolutely talk about where he comes from. Yeah. Because of the greatness that he comes from. So his father is Garth Crookes, one of the greatest footballers we've ever had. Absolutely. A bit of Man U time, I think, but mainly Tottenham. Spurs, sadly. And he is, unfortunately, because Mabel and Brié are huge Arsenal fans. We are indeed. We are indeed. I am too. But because Garth is an OBE, correct me if I'm wrong, you're able to get married at Westminster Abbey if you wanted to. It's like St. Paul's Cathedral.

I think there's a few things you can do. And I'm like, me, I'm like, what can we get out of this? I did nothing. You're like, can I get the list of the things we can do? But what are the things that I can enjoy from all of your hard work? Yeah, there's like a few really cool places and like things that in my personal opinion, they haven't used, they haven't milked this OBE enough. No, I'm with you. I'm with you. You're here to do that. I'm like, I got you guys. Okay. What is it? What is it we need to be

doing? Where should we be going? Are there palaces we should be frequenting? And would you be down to do it like that, the wedding of the year? The wedding of the... Our royal wedding? Yeah, no, I would be. I'm actually so mature. Wait for what you're about to hear. I actually, genuinely, I'm like, say if Priye turned around and was like, I just want to get married, just us, I actually would be okay with that. No, I know you would be. I know that there is actually a very private side of you. Of course there is, not the engagement party.

It's not even that, listen, no. I have always dreamt, I'm one of those women that like since I was a little girl have thought about my wedding day. Yeah, me too. But you know what's so interesting is that it's my wedding day and then now I've met Priya, it's like, oh, it's our wedding. Oh, someone else is involved in this. Yes. This is not just about me. Yes, before it was sort of just a shadowy figure in my big day.

Don't think I ever actually thought about the guy once. It's just like what I was wearing and like who we're going to be. Yeah, you know what this is, Mabel? This isn't a wedding. You know what you're having to think about? Marriage. Marriage! Mowage.

Mowage! Mowage. What's the movie? The Princess Bride. Princess Bride. Mowage. Mowedge. I mean, I know you're going to have a wedding, but you're actually going to be married to someone. I know that's insane. I'm going to be a wife.

I love love. I love love. And I see it with you too. And I know that you've done a lot. Pre-8 is Nigerian. My ancestors are Nigerian. Remember me and mum found out. Yes they are. But I still haven't been. You've been a lot now, maybe five or six times. Yeah. You fucking love Niger. What is it? What's happening over there? I do. I do have an honorary Niger babe. I mean, it takes a lot. It takes a lot because every time you go there's like looks, headdresses.

There's quite a lot of traditional things that one must adhere to when you're over there. Yeah, I think like for me, I love culture, tradition. I love tradition. I love understanding more about people's cultures and their traditions, which obviously can vary not just from tribe to tribe, but from family to family. I think meeting Priye and meeting his mum, who has so much pride for being African, not just Nigerian, but for being African. And I think for a lot of my childhood, obviously, my granddad is from Sierra Leone. But I think, I don't know how it was here, but definitely in Sweden, it wasn't very cool to be African. It was like this thing that I kind of knew about, but like I never took the time whilst

he was alive to really like get the stories and really like bask in that. And as soon as he had passed, I guess, I mean, I was still quite young. I was only like 19, 20. And it just took me a long time, I think, to like, especially like being mixed and just like what that means for your identity and what is home and what are you put it in one sentence, you know, and it's like, I'm actually now I understand the beauty of being like, I am all of these things. And I don't have to pick one. And it's a great asset to have in life. I've got family all over the world and all these different places to draw inspiration from but I think particularly my African side, it just took time also like I came out looking mad Spanish.

That's very true. I just I look like Colombian. I don't really look mixed race. Who is this Hispanic baby? Do you think it's because you got born in Malaga that you just came out looking? Yeah, I was born in Spain. I just, I look mad Spanish. So for me, like, I don't know. I think also because I'd be like, oh yeah, like I'm mixed race. And then people would be like, oh, you don't look mixed race.

And then I'd just be like, okay, well, I guess I'm not. Well, quite. Yeah. And you know what's weird after reading the book? Obviously, your side, I think, were always one step closer to their African side because Nana's parent is from Sierra Leone. And my mom's parents are Caribbean. But then we find out that we're African. But when they were, when mom and Nana first met, Nana had just, and now I know, I love that book because it's just connected all these dots for me. Nana had just been to Sierra Leone. So she had all these African clothes and sensibilities

and hair ties and the whole fucking vibe. And my mom really mirrored that within Anna, but still never ever asked my Nan, where are we from in Africa? Like, where are our ancestors from? And Nanny wouldn't have probably been able to answer, which is that kind of different Caribbean disconnect. But now we're spending a lot of time in Kenya, which is just, it's a beautiful place. It's really special. We're here because of Uncle

Nick and this is the sort of second January Christmas we've spent here. But there is this kind of talk of Africa rising, right? That's something that you're hearing a lot about. And I'm sort of, I feel like British television is sort of, you know, it deigns to show anything of Africa other than poverty or nature. Yeah, I mean, don't even get me started on that. Even like, you know, and I love her, I love Beyonce, I am part of the beehive, you know, I found it really frustrating that with such a big platform, you know, that when it came to what was it the first sort of Lion King soundtrack to making visuals and stuff, I just was like,

it's really important for people to see like, where's the wealth? Where's the because you know, it's, it's a huge economy that is growing incredibly quickly. I mean, when I go there, we call it and Garfield loves it, the high life. You know, high life living. It's like there's two very different sides to that. Of course there is poverty, but there is also an incredible amount of fashion designers, producers, artists. Yeah, the creative industries in Africa are thriving, right? Thriving.

And I think it's because, oh no, sorry, look at me. I've been getting, sorry, Uncle Nick said this to me. He said it's hugely to do with the internet because there was, for so long, this country was kind of given its information from like one central TV channel. Kenya would have been, sorry, each country within the continent of Africa would have had this kind of one central portal of information, right? So the internet growing and growing has given people more information and a gateway into an idea of a greater life and more in their life.

Being able to imagine and being able to see that like, okay, this is possible. And there's still like a long way to go. Like for example, streaming platforms in Africa, they have the big streaming platforms over there, but they use other ones too. So say, if actually the streaming platforms that we used actually had all of those streams, you know, the global top 50 top 100 would, you know, be completely different. It's like the same with India, the same with... It could be completely different, which to me, I'm like, I'm convinced is like a weird control thing because your global top 100, it would not be Americans anymore. It would totally change everything because there's been this obsession with like America, even

with the UK to a degree. But what I've really, my favourite thing about music now is that if you're just willing to open your ears a little bit, there's so much amazing, such a small part of the world, America and the American music scene. And the creative output and going to Nigeria, I just really realized, I was like, oh, wow, because that's like, it's become like the LA of Africa. Right, oh, right. Okay, go on, Nigeria. That's like where everybody goes to right now.

Okay. So I've been making music out there and yeah, it's just sick. Mabel had a song called Finders Kieffers and I remember you played it to me. It's just such a tune. At the gym? No, did I play it to you at the gym? Yes, we were training with Chris and you were like, there is this tune I've just done with Marley, I'm Mabel's brother and the first bit, I was like, I'm in. I just loved it.

And I just like, I know about melodies and I love how well you write a melody. I was listening to vitamins earlier today actually. So clever that tune as well. I hope you tell yourself often enough that you are a clever bitch who's done great things. I do tell myself I'm proud of myself. Like those actually are like my, I'd say like my two, the songs that I'm like the proudest of. No way. That have been released. Yeah, like those two specific songs. Finders Keepers, and I think that that has to do with like an authenticity. That thing that we were just talking about, like being mixed and being all these different things.

I think those two songs are an example of when I've been at peace enough and just been able to drown out the noise enough where I can put all of those things into one song. Like Finders Keepers is special because it has Afro Swing. What I'm saying was definitely, you know, I'm being quite bossy, but I also sound very innocent. You're such a kid then. Yeah, and there's like a there's a sweet like mixture and balance of all these things that just make me me. And same with vitamins. It's just like that's just like when I think about, OK, who am I? I'm like, oh, I managed to actually get that all into one song.

You're so clever. Like, I don't write songs. I do like words, though, but I can like the fact that I know this might be just, I'm biased because you're my cousin. I love you. But I just like, it's so clever to think of yourself in a partnership as vitamins for your partner and to actually write the lyric like, I'll be your five a day. Ginger and cinnamon.

I'll be so good for you. I'm just like, yes, Mabel. I just love that. I wrote it for Priya because he works way too much. Oh so I'll be your five a day baby needs some more vitamin C in your diet. Exactly. It's just like let me make a smoothie doll. Oh my god that's so fucking sweet. We're gonna have a break yeah because I was meant to do it about 5, 10, 15 minutes ago. Because I want to talk about ambition with you and the terrible, terrible state of today's

music industry. Oh god. Oh god. So let's do that. After a little break, we might need a little break before we do that. I do. Welcome back to Miss Me. We're here to tear the doors down in the music industry. It's about fucking time.

I don't hear anything good ever about the music industry and I'd like to figure out today what the fuck is going on over there and we happen to have my cousin who's a pop star who is within the, this is her house. So what's going on over there? What the fuck is wrong with this industry? Oh, so many things. I think the foundation of the problem is not listening to the artist and not giving the artist space and time to figure out who they are within their creativity. I think that's the main problem is that our voices are not heard. And then,

you know, you add social media onto that and then you have people judging you. Basically, I used to get all the time like, oh, she's generic, she's whatever. Her mom, you know, was one of a kind and she's just like a whatever pop star. Oh, maybe. And I'm just like, well, I signed at 18

and I've been given no real support or time to actually figure out other than those small little moments of clarity like finders keepers and vitamins and like. Yeah, but Mabel, that's all you. Do you know what I realized? March this year, you're 29, right? I am, yeah. Right. So that means that when you signed and they threw you that big, you signed a record deal. Remember, I think it was at Dean Street townhouse.

I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were in central. Yeah, we were at Dean Street. And you were 19. And I remember I said, get ready for the rollercoaster of your life. You were like, I'm fucking ready. And I guess it has been a total rollercoaster since then.

But do you remember the times it was fun being a pop star in these 10 years? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm still like, I have very few other skills. So I'm very grateful and like blessed still to like, I've traveled the world doing what I love, like performing still, is the best thing ever. I've had moments of getting to work with Marlon, who's my brother, over the last couple of years. That's been really beautiful. I think sadly, because there's no duty of care, so basically you get, I think particularly as a young woman, it's so easy to get moulded into something, which usually is based off another female, right?

Like, oh, this person's done this, so this is what you should do. And then you get cast for being generic and whatever. And then there's no responsibility from the people that have kind of put you in those positions to help you get out of them. Like, I needed a lot of therapy, I needed a lot of, you know, I needed medication, I needed... And there's no everybody then just kind of like, you're difficult, you're emotional, you're a nightmare. You know, there's no nobody there to actually just be like, hey, let me let me help you or and I still get that now that I have found my voice and I am stronger. I'm constantly being called difficult. Oh my god, I used to get called difficult. I don't sorry, I don't fucking accept it.

Me neither. I just don't accept it. It's such a lame Like what, because I have an opinion? Yes, quite. Or because I think you're not doing your job well enough. Or because do you know what I mean? Like, I'm I'm difficult because I have an opinion? Yes, quite. Or because I think you're not doing your job well enough? Or because, do you know what I mean? Like, I'm difficult because I'm questioning things that you're bringing to me. Wait, I don't, are we sure that we want to do that?

It's being a businesswoman. That's what I'm doing, but to you, it's me being difficult. But unfortunately, it's always been like that. If you read the Barbra Streisand autobiography, you will understand. I love Barbra Streisand autobiography, you will understand. I love Barbra Streisand. Yes. Okay. Well, I'm sending you my name is Barbra because it changed my fucking life. I keep waiting in the book for her to stop fighting and it doesn't happen. I'm like, okay, so maybe I need to stop waiting for this day that comes where I don't fight anymore.

What I have done is create autonomy in my life where the way other people work isn't always going to affect me because I'm building my own things now. True. I was with you the day I made that fucking decision at the GQ awards where I was just like, what are we doing here? I cannot with these red carpets and these events. Dreadful. I'll be honest, my energy was let me just wear a Gucci 90s dress, get a really good picture and then all the production companies and all the channels that I want to make all these things on will suddenly go, God, she looks so good in that 90s Gucci dress. Is that 90s Gucci?

Here's a million pounds. Here's a chance to make any TV show you want. That's not how it works. And so that day after we were both like, this is just so tired. I realized that I have no interest in having a particularly glamorous fame filled photographed life. What I want is a long creative life with autonomy. And I'm really proud because since then, um, apart from a

little bit of fashion week, I will, I just don't do that shit anymore. Not interested. I don't care about being a dolly bird in a nice dress on a carpet. It doesn't give me enough. It's not enough for me. I need to make and create, which is why I'm going to change the world with a skipping rope. Yes, you are actually. I actually am. But do you feel like autonomy is important? Do you even feel like it's something you can get as a pop star in the music industry now? Is that an easy thing to get?

Not really, no. It's not an easy thing to do. For me the answer has been so what I need to be doing is I need to be creating and I need to be performing and very little else actually in terms of my career is that that's what I need to be doing. I need to be creating and that's it period. In order for me to do that, it takes like walls of protection and

families kind of been the key there for me. Just like having Priya around, having dad around, mum, Tyson, it just means that like for me then I'm protected. So a lot of that noise is going to get kind of drowned out the noise that's going to stop me from being able to make music that isn't generic or that we haven't heard. I'm like the reason why I've been making things that you've heard before or whatever is because I have five million different people's opinions constantly. Yeah, it's like because they told me to. Literally. Yes.

Literally. That's why we shouldn't listen to them. So I'm like, how am I supposed to be making something that's like groundbreaking and that's like different and authentic? Like, and like, how am I supposed to do that when you have like seven million cooks in the kitchen? Mm hmm. So what I have now is basically a close protection team of my family. And some SAS members.

Yeah, exactly. Some SAS members. That just keeps some of that noise out really. I mean, it's a journey. I don't know how it's going to go or even like, it's so sad because I love what I do. Like I love making music. Actually, Oscar and I have made like a song that I put up as highly on the list as like vitamins and finders keepers in terms of like making something that feels like me. But you know, I love that when that happens, it's like the most beautiful thing in the world.

But that's the cure, Maeve. That's what I realized. That's what I'm saying. That's the cure. It's like, follow the happy people. That's what Zowie Ashton said to me once. Just follow the happy people. Where do you giggle and your heart sings? And like for me, that's like a really long meeting now about a skipping rope. I'm like, I'm so excited and overwhelmed by joy. And it was in an unexpected place, but that's where it is. So I'm just going to keep following it. Like, I don't give a shit if it's not where I thought it was. Yeah.

I'm just like, I don't know how much fight I have. Like we talked about it recently, remember I called you because like we had a naggy cousins group and I just was like, do you know what? I just was like, I'm too tired to deal with any family shit right now because work is literally, I'm constantly fighting. I love what I do so much, but how long I will fight for, I don't know, which is really sad. Well, domesticity is around the corner as well. Yeah, true. I mean, there's the other conversation of like, can we stop for a minute?

Are we brave enough to just stop for a while and let life live a little. Let life, do you know what, it's so sad though. Like I'm, I really respect when people just stop and they just have some time, but I've always like dreamt of because of mom and like Andy, like working at the same time as like, like being busy and really successful at the same time as having kids was always something like I envisioned.

Priya with like the baby on him whilst I'm touring and like, do you know what I mean? Like I, that was what I had envisioned for myself. And now I think like the most important thing is that I am happy and healthy for myself. But also like there is more now. Like I'm building my own family. It's funny that you said that because we were talking about these, everyone in Kenya is like, Bikita, when are you going to have a baby? I'm like, I'm building a company.

I have to be focused. Yeah. And everyone was like, do it at the same time. And I was like, oh, you can do it at the same time. Oh, yeah. That's what you all did. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's what I mean.

That's what they all did. But to be fair, maybe I was like under a bunch of coats in like a club in Soho a little too often when I was a kid. So like, I don't want to like blueprint from them completely. We were, to be fair, like under a bunch of coats in Soho, sleeping on weird chairs and like, but we turned out okay. Yeah, look at us. Huge successes and totally normal insane. I'm like, we're totally fine. Like, okay, I had to have some therapy. Yeah, okay. Okay, I'm heavily medicated, but...

I had to take some medication. Big woot to you, who doesn't have some kind of crisis. We're fucking surviving and thriving. I will not have a bad word said about us from us to us. No, definitely not. And like we're here. And actually I think we're doing way better than like, than we could have been doing. Like both industries that we work in are very intense, very cutthroat. We could, yeah. It can kill creativity, which is crazy because they're creative industries, but it really can.

I always say the music business where creativity comes to die. Actually, that's the perfect way to end this tearing apart of the music industry section of Miss Me. Although I think we just told the truth. I think we did. I'm going to see you on Monday for Listen Bitch. And I don't know whether you understand why I've done this. The theme for next week's Listen, Bitch with me and Maybellina is... Fathers.

Ah, yes. Papa, pooh, pooh. Daddy-o. And this is because we have really different experiences with fathers in our lives. We do. And I suddenly have two after having none. So. We'll talk about dads.

We'll talk about dads. I love it. Daddy issues. Daddy issues, exactly. All right, babes. Do we have daddy issues? I probably do. Oh, a one-handed.

Yeah, we do, don't we? Okay, yeah. Anyway, a 100. Yeah, we do, don't we? Okay, yeah. Anyway, let's circle back. You'll find out once the Listen Bitch audience starts asking you questions by the end, you'll be like, I have so many daddy issues. I am so fucked up. So let's see how fucked up we all are next Monday.

I love you, Mabel. I love you. Love you. Thank you. So much fun. It was just easy. So easy. Kind of too easy. I bet you, Mabel. I love you. Love you. Thank you. So much fun. It was just easy. So easy. Kind of too easy. I bet you all get cancelled after this. No, no, no. This is, I feel like Miss Me is like the fucking like battering arm against cancellation. It's like, oh please, I refuse to be cancelled.

I honestly think like with my dad as my dad, it's actually unbelievable that we haven't been cancelled yet as a family. He's still, he's still got time. He's still comfy. Let's be honest. Okay, bye. and Makita Oliver. This is a Persephoneca production for BBC Sounds. in the mood for our new podcast. Murder They Wrote. Hey, I'm Laura Whitmore. And I'm Ian Sterling. Anyone who knows us knows we are obsessed with true crime. We're here with a new podcast exploring the dastardly deeds of history's most atrocious criminals. There'll be mystery, madness, and moments of... Oh my God. Murder They Wrote with Laura Whitmore and Ian Sterling.

Listen on BBC Sounds. I'm Ronnie and Sterling. Listen on BBC Sounds. Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by. And in 2017, Miranda, a university tutor from London, joins a yoga school that promises profound transformation. It felt a really safe and welcoming space. After the yoga classes I felt amazing. But soon that calm welcoming atmosphere leads to something far darker, a journey that leads

to allegations of grooming, trafficking and exploitation across international borders. I don't have my passport, I don't have my phone, I don't have my bank cards, I have nothing. The passport being taken, the being in a house and not feeling like they can leave. World of Secrets is where untold stories are unveiled and hidden realities are exposed. In this new series, we're confronting the dark side of the wellness industry, where the hope of a spiritual breakthrough gives way to disturbing accusations. You just get sucked in so gradually, and it's done so, the secret that's there. I wanted to believe that, you know, that

whatever they were doing, even if it seemed gross to me, was for some spiritual reason that I couldn't understand. Revealing the hidden secrets of a global yoga network. I feel that I have no other choice. The only thing I can do is to speak about this and to put my reputation and everything else on the line. I want truth and justice. And for other people to not be hurt, for things to be different in the future. To bring it into the light and almost alchemize some of that evil stuff that went on.

And take back the power. World of Secrets, Season 6, The Bad Guru. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.