Miss Me? - Macklemore & Ed Sheeran Situation

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

NB: This episode was recorded before Ed Sheeran released this statement about Macklemore leaving his current tour https://www.instagram.com/p/DdT-6KGAtuI/?img_index=1In the week that a US stadium owner had Macklemore removed from Ed Sheeran’s tour, Jordan (who’s known Ed for years) and Miquita get into the wider implications of that whole situation. They also talk through Sydney Sweeney’s pivot to advertising a sports betting firm, and whether sex really does sell everything. Plus they look at the latest plans to shake up what kids eat at school and how that compares with the school dinners they grew up with.Get weekly recommendations for things to watch or read or listen to from the Miss Me? Library every Friday at patreon.com/missmeFollow the show on instagram and TikTok @missme.4evaYou can contact Miss Me? on email at [e-mail] Presented by: Miquita Oliver and Jordan StephensProducer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Katie-Louise Buxton Video Editor: Danny PapeProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Sam MichellMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Okay, welcome everybody to Miss Me. I am... I'm Jordan. That's Makita. I'm Akita. You are Jordan and yet again in a completely new setting, which is very Jordan. Very Jordan indeed.

I think this is fine, you know? Like, I think you should be in a new setting. How about that? Plot twist. Yeah, no. Listen, it's fine because... Should we say where you are? Yeah. You're at the pig, right?

One of the nicest hotel franchises in the country. My mum's a huge fan. Right. Huge fan. Yeah. So yeah, I much prefer this than random reception desk in Thailand. Okay. Firstly, I miss that desk with all my heart.

I just want to be clear about that. You like doing that dual job of booking people in and doing Miss Me? Yes. And secondly, I am in a transitional and mobile state. And unfortunately, if anybody was gaining an attachment to the consistency of one setting, well, I'm asking you to detach yourself because that ain't all happen. It ain't all happen. of those dreams because he's on the road again.

I'm on the move, bro, like, as we all should be. I'm a nomad. I am a nomad. That's a realization I've come to this year. I am at heart. A true nomad. Yeah, and you know what? You and I have actually really explicitly shown that

through our locations of filming Miss Me, because I'm a real homebody, and I'm always here. Yeah, you are, you're a Nesta. I'm a fucking Torrian Nestor. I'm always here, surrounded by the things that I know and love, and you are quite good for me, because these are all the things I find really uncomfortable

just like not knowing where I'll be next week. That's my life. That is my life. My whole life is a freestyle. That is literally it. But I will say to add to that freestyle, for those, I mean, we've revealed in part the process of missed me a little bit. Like we've spoken about the fact people should know

we have planning meetings, we have production meeting, we'll call each other and be like, what are we going to talk about? Yeah, yeah. I mean, actually, Keith, to be honest, some people don't. I'm just going to throw it out there. I've told you about. there's a podcast, some people won't even have a meeting.

But as there's a nature, literally every week, you know, certain things will come up between the planning meeting and the recording. And hilariously, our planning meeting was literally yesterday morning. And by yesterday evening, I was on my phone because people were texting me about this current scandal. I say scandal surrounding Ed and McLemore. I think it is a bit.

of a political scandal, I would say somewhat. Yes. So for those who don't know, just a brief explanation, is that Ed Sheeran is on a stadium tour. And as part of the stadium tour, he has booked, well, there's actually two acts. So that's really interesting because the second act is also Irish folk band who I think share the same sentiments

as McLemore. But Ed has booked an artist called MacLamore to support him on the stage, on his stadium tour. Now, MacLamore, for anyone he's been living under a rock, has now, in the last year or two years, maybe three years, has, I'd say dedicated his life to, his, sorry, his working life to being pro-Palestine. And it is subsequently led to him. God, really? Oh, yeah. Was that what you'd say dedicated his working life, fucking up.

Yeah, he released a song called Hins Hall. That was like a protest song. And subsequently, he has, like, lost. everything. You know, he has performed, like, you know, reasonably big stages. But in terms of, like, you know, what you would do as an artist, brand deals, again, supporting people on tour, playing even bigger stadiums, like those things. Yeah, he hasn't had that.

But Ed was wanting to platform him. He did. And in these first two shows in New York, Matt Lamar used the opportunity to deliver, I think, very reasonable and balanced speech about Palestine and how he feels about what the people there were going through. And a man named Robert Kraft has in response rounded up not only he himself and has rounded up other stadium owners and concluded that they were going to ban McLemore from performing at the subsequent shows on Ed's tour. And McLemore has said that he has gone back and forth with Ed and Ed and Ed has

has chosen to carry on the tour. Without McClermore. Without McClermore. And many people have seen that as a deep betrayal. And people have been messaging me because obviously it is my friend. Yeah, it'd be interesting to know where this Robert guy's political beliefs lie. Because he's really taking it upon himself, hasn't it? He's really put a lot of work into fucking this up.

He obviously believes the opposite to what McLemort believes. Let's just put it like that. Otherwise, he wouldn't ban him, right? So if McLemore believes in freeing or freeing the people of Palestine, and preventing, you know, further deaths, Robert Kraft has decided that that's an unacceptable thing to say. So I can only assume that his stance is that he... Yeah, and extremely opposing beliefs.

Opposing beliefs. I just want to say something that Matt Kermor said, which I thought was actually quite beautiful. He said, before I get into it, I just want to say, I'm not a victim. Ed Sheeran's not a victim. Pink's not a victim. We have careers, money, opportunities.

The victims are the Palestinian people. And I just thought that's fantastic. fantastically put when it comes to what you were saying of like he is losing things. And this is limiting how far he can go in his career. But what he believes is far more important than that. And I think every artist should live in their truth in this way. It feels like the 70s out here. Okay, so there's a few things I want to say about it just from the jump, right?

Like, firstly, like, I don't want to really lean too much into my relationship with Ed because, like, he's a grown man. You know, he makes growing disdain. and like he's going to have to, you know, deal with the consequences of his decisions. Many people, and to be honest, you know, if I was in ex position, I would have pulled the door, right? Like, let's be clear about that. I, and my friends had said that, you know, but you would have done this, da, da, da, da, I know, but there's a reason I'm not in ed's position and that's because I have stances. So this is, this is the kind of, this is the kind of tension and paradox

of the whole thing. The artist in his club, in ed's club, right, biggest in the world, none of them are saying anything. No, that's so fucking true. Let's be clear. Like, none of them are saying anything. I believe he was attempting to do something by putting on Matlamour, and now he's got himself caught up in this. But for me, what this is, like, fuck the personal stuff and the people and the personas and

the energies and, you know, even Matlamour, you know, pronouncing that he's not a victim and all this kind of stuff, the thing that I think is most fucking important for the public to see and why this is actually a good situation. ultimately is that the First Amendment in America is freedom of speech, right, freedom of expression. Someone has gone on stage and simply said that they don't, they stand against what is an asymmetrical war, right? But so I believe as an asymmetrical war, well, no, I don't know what I believe it is literally an asymmetrical war. I think you can just say that. Yeah, it's an asymmetrical war, right?

So he's going, this isn't fair. I stand with the people of Palestine. Now, a person in the position of financial power being Robert Kraft, right, who owns a stadium. like we have to really deep this owns a stadium has silenced maclamore like i really need people to understand how dangerous that is as a sentiment that is a fascist sentiment you're if you're living in a democracy where people can express themselves let like in in truth maclomor should be able to say that on every stadium and if people don't like it then they'll boo him if people don't agree with the sentiment it's the same thing as with kneecap right where it's like there was a private quiet attempt at a true

of kneecap to stop them from going on stage in Glastonbury. But democracy would say, if people don't agree with kneecap, they don't want to turn up. And then there'll be no one there and whatever. You know what I'm saying? So that, that for me is the bit that I really want people to understand. And Ed is now seeing that, that this, Ed is now seeing that he's getting,

he's been leaned on by like a person in a very powerful, powerful situation. And it is undermining freedom of speech. Absolutely. That's huge. And it will be incredibly convenient. it for the whole world to now be talking about Ed Shearan's political stance and not this fucking guys. Right. Exactly. Since I met Ed 17, right, he said in his rules of, of, of play were no politics,

no religion, no other artists. That's, that's what he said. That is the, that is a rule that most superstars live by. If you actually think historically, they very rarely speak out about any of those things, but they do sometimes in part, but it's all a game, right? And I don't agree with that, by the way, I've never agreed with that. I've never, I don't believe, I believe an artist's responsibility, like Nina Simone said, is to stand on your shit. Yeah, because I was going to say, if you believe that, you've done a shit job. I've done a really bad job.

I don't, I actively don't believe that. I was like, from the job, I remember on Twitter, I remember maybe a year after he told me that I went on Twitter and said, if you, if you like you, keep unfollow me now. That was like, that was my response to that. I wonder if Ed, I wonder if Ed saying that to you at such a young age was his almost a version, of him clearly stating his ambitions. Because in his mind, to go to the top, it takes silencing.

Yes, which is not, I don't agree with, fundamentally. Let me be clear about that. So with that in mind, right, he's now got to this point where there is an instance that is so fucking, like, unassailable, if that's the right word, that, like, he has done something, which is, let me platform a man who has been cancelled

for being pro-Palestine, right? right, and now it's in a situation where he's kind of gone halfway there. And honestly, people are even saying that it would have been better for him to have just not done anything at all than half support McLemore, which I don't know how I feel about that. But I don't think it's apolitical to book Maclemore personally. I think it's very clear where someone stands when they book McLemore. I agree with you. And it doesn't feel like a half support.

It feels like true support. He should have backed him. He should have backed him. Obviously what's happened now, but we can't even imagine the kind of conversations he was probably having to have with him. his team with the power of this Robert man. Yeah, and I think, and you know what? And to try and empathise with the people who are like loading it on him,

that will be their frustration, right? Like Ed's in a situation where he has the financial means and, uh, history of, let's say, avoidance where he should fucking be ten toes on this shit and people are like, you know, you can actually afford to do this. Whereas other people who haven't said anything, you know, might have different situations. But one thing I will say is that from my purpose, I can say this for sure. And just if anybody has doubted this,

is that, you know, all the things I've stood for in my life, right? Like, whether it's talking about, what's I say, experimental medicine, or whether it's about political parties, or whatever it is that I stood for, you know, there'll be certain opportunities that might be, but there is nothing, and I mean it,

there is nothing I've ever experienced in my life that has led to the removal of earnings and opportunity then standing for power. Palestine. And that's not just me. That's like everybody around me. I've seen people lose. And this doesn't mean, it doesn't like, you know, it doesn't compare to, of course, what we're trying to defend. But it's just, I think it's just important people understand that this is my opinion. I've not seen anything in my lifetime, any stance taken, not Ukraine, not whatever, where like you can say free guys are free Palestine and you are blacklisted. And people,

experience true cancellation. And true cancellation isn't online, by the way. It's not like, I don't like this person. Like Ed isn't going to be cancelled from this, right? Like Ed, like the left only have the, we have like the power of being like, I don't like you. Right. And it might affect some of your money maybe, but ultimately there's a whole group of people from on the right maybe or whatever the fuck. I don't know what, who you can be embraced by. But real cancellation, it happens behind the scenes and it's terrifying. Yeah. And I feel in a weird way. It's not cancellation, but as I said, I can't imagine what's going on behind the scenes for Ed because he's got the...

Because I was actually quite surprised that he booked him. No, that Ed was in the middle of such a big tour in America. I didn't really realise that Ed Sheeran was still sort of at that, at that top, top level. And to, yeah, to make a decision to book someone like Macklemore, I didn't really bat an island. I just thought that seemed... I don't know. Well, yeah, because Matt Lamor was a pop star and then he stood for Palestine and he's been wiped off the board.

Yeah. What was that song that he had before? Like, what was his big hit? Thrift shop. I'm going to pop some tags. And he got $20 in my pocket. Oh, yeah. And then we go and fight that the ceiling can hold us.

Yeah, hold us. And the moment. Listen, Matlamour's a dope artist. He's done some cool. He stood for various things as well. I remember in Australia he got in trouble because he was standing up for LGBTQ rights. So he's on smoke.

Yeah. And you know what? Someone else I'd like shout out. And I would say, it's interesting because she wasn't really making music at the time but Lily has always been very political and very verbal and confidently has stood in what she believes in and has had fucking awful things happen to her because of it.

Yeah, it's not a fun path, right? And that's why I think you have to commend people like Matt Lemoyne. You commend, you know, like Greta Thunberg and I guess a lot of people have been shocked. Susan Sarandon. Miss Rachel has come out saying that Ed should have gone ten toes And that is like, from one of my friends, my friends were like, dude, that's, that's, that's exceptional. And I also think it's worth saying the reason why I'm also passionate about being against this silencing or there being a removal of freedom of speech is because, you know, there are huge sways of the Jewish community that this damages because there's a continued idea that any mention of this asymmetrical war that's happening in Palestine, in Gaza,

is in some way like an attack on the Jewish community and it isn't. I have many, many Jewish friends, allies, comrades who equally don't believe in the actions of the Israeli government. And what I believe Robert Kraft has done by flexing power to silence a person that reflects, I think, badly on a group of, you know, on like a belief system or part of society that have historically been silenced and ostracized. That is the basis of all of this.

That's genocide. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. You know, that's the history. And we can't be in a world. I don't think it's beneficial to anybody to be in a world where the hurt or the damage that we've experienced historically, we then repeat, like, going forward. Like, that's not, I don't think that's a good idea. I really understood that when you're talking about this idea of, like, the silencing,

being a version of fascism. It's fucking insane, Makita. It is actually insane. Like, MacLamore's opinion isn't radical. Like, it's not a radical opinion. I know, but it's also like what happened with, oh my God, what was the TV show last year that mocked Trump? Yeah, that, Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel.

And it was like, oh, oh, you will silence people. Oh, there will be great retribution. There was a massive pushback to that, by the way, which is why they had to do it in a more subtle way. They've still done it, but they pulled back on the speed and whatever. But this isn't the president. That's what scares me. Like that is, yes, we know it's heading towards fascism because of the things that Trump is defunding and like the, and there's their books that are banned. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. My mom told me about that. Right. And so like, but this is like a stadium owner who just doesn't agree with what one artist says on stage. That's not how this is supposed to work.

That isn't how it's supposed to work, you know? And yes, I do understand that like, you know, people could argue, oh right, so any artist can just get on stage and say, the most violent things and whatever else. And my thing would be like, at a stadium level, right, because that's ultimately what's happened. Matnamor's been performing all year. What Ed's done is put Matnamor on a stadium in New York and spoken to 180,000 people over the course of a couple nights

or something like that, right? And that suddenly is that that's the ceiling. And the ceiling has turned around and gone, no. Yeah, too far. But the positive is that this is now putting Palestine back in the headlines at a time where it kind of dissipated and actually some of the shit that's happening, on the West Bank and then obviously largely Gaza

is absolutely horrendous. The stories I'm reading, it's just normal, it needs to not be normalized. This behaviour needs to not be normalized how these people are being treated on their land. It is despicable, right? So that at least will bring that back into the public forefront, I'm hoping.

I like being shown on this again and hopefully continuously until things change. We've got to stand against people trying to silence freedom of speech in that regard. You know what I mean? Well, thank God we have a podcast. Good morning to you too.

Jesus Christ, I thought we were just going to talk about how we missed each other in Margate. But the news happened first. Yeah, but the thing is, you know, it happened last night, bro. Yeah, man. This shit's like, you know, it's what it is. No, I love when you come to me all passionate and ready to go. I was like, oh, yeah. That's how you start missing me.

Let's have a break. And then afterwards we can talk about school dinners in Sydney, Sweeney. And then it really is miss me. Welcome back to Miss Me. We're here to talk about Sydney Sweeney's banging body. Every time she gets her ass out, people are unhappy. And she's done it again. The crazy little bitch, she's done it again.

This time, I have to say, it does look a bit crazy. Like, I get it, right? She's, I mean, no, this bit I don't get. She's the face of, she's part of the new campaign. for is it called Nivgo, which is a sports trading app, which is essentially like a betting app, right? Yeah. But she's naked.

Okay, she's naked. She's naked. She's naked on a basketball hoop. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good bit. She's, I was going to be. I mean, it's kind of nuts. Like, the art direction, it's like they just went,

fuck it, should we just go for it? Yeah. But of course, there are a lot of people, including female athletes saying you're taking us 20,000 steps back, Sydney, Sweeney. you're dragging us back to the Dark Ages and, you know, continuing this cycle of the sexualization of women in the world and in sport.

I have more of a problem in the fact that in this hugely important, exciting time in her career, she feels the need to be the face of a sports betting app. Is it an exciting time in her career? She's making a film with Auntie Allison. What? Yeah, she's making that period drama with Auntie Allison right now. Okay. So she's doing classy shit, is what I'm saying.

And also, yeah, it is an exciting time of career. She keeps making these moves that people... She's actually quite a good actor, which is hilarious. She's a great actress. I don't understand why she needs to do this. Possibly it's because she's going out with Scooter Braun and he's giving her bad management advice. I know Scoot is your friend.

No, he's not my friend. Oh, you're sorry, an acquaintance. No, no, no. Let's be very clear. That guy's not my friend. Even further. A passing... I've met him a few times.

There you go. He's met him. Children's met him a few times. Yeah. I'd have so many issues with Scooter Broad. He does not give good energy. I have to be honest. Many people do.

Many people do. Bad energy. And he wrote an incredibly confusing Instagram post about his love for Sydney Sweeney. No, stop. Stop. Is this him saying that like, wait, is he said like, we all know that you're supposed to pick a woman like your mom? It's like, no, Freud said that's the fucked up part of your mind.

Yeah, yeah. That's, guys, sorry, for the listeners, Scooter did a birthday post about Sydney Sweeney in the first line is they say that it's a good sign to pick somebody like your mom. Who's saying that? Who's they? Who said that to you? Who said, go and find a woman like your mom?

And Sidney and my mom have the same birthday. But what's going on with his mom? Is his mom, does his mom like sitting on basketball hoops? Naked. Naked. And she does? Legend. Legend.

That's the plot twist. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't be looking for that personally. I'd be looking for it. If anything, the opposite, ideally. But I don't know, it's similar, but different. I'm sure. I mean, this is Freudian. You know, it's Freudian that we are looking for our, well, it's Freudian, isn't it,

for a man to sleep with his mother? And then it's, what's it called? Oh, no, isn't it, Eidipus? Edipus complex is men. And then there's like a lecturer complex for women with their dads. Yeah, I suppose there are things that I look for in a man that are in my dad. I think the most balanced perspective on it is like you build a level of familiarity, right, as a child, based on your primary caregivers.

So it's not insane for you to be, like, charmed by a, similar qualities in another person. That's fine. But what's so mad is to just straight out say, look for someone like my mum. Like, there are also parts of my mum that I'm actively trying to avoid respectfully. Love my mum, but like, I'm not looking for that. In the dating world. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Right. So, and that's like part of the work. That is the work. You have to break away from your fucking mum. God damn it. Like, that's a really important part of growth. And dad. But back to women in sport. Obviously, I am a woman entering. the world of sport with the business that I've created, ropes is a sports brand essentially

and I am the face of it. You're going to get naked? And no, I haven't, we haven't written on any of our... You should get naked. We haven't thought within our marketing should McKee to get naked. You should get naked and just put the rope like in the middle of your legs. And then the tagline should be, should be some things do need to be extended. That's actually quite good for a retract.

If only everything was retractable. If only everything was retractable to the length you needed and desired. See? See? We could have really fucked with this. See? Winning. But listen, but you and I talked about sex in advertising months and months ago. And I asked you like, why, because remember there was that pot noodle advert. It's essentially lots of people having orgasms. Love it.

And it's so normalized to have sex in it within marketing. And I think being appalled by Sweden. it, Sweeney by fucking Sweeney. Fucking Sweeney over there. And her new moves. I understand where people are coming from. Because when I I have to be realistic about the fact that I'm a female face of this brand

and we're not shying away from that. We're very much using it and pushing it. And we did do a hero sequence of me posing and lying on a basketball court and looking suggestively into a camera. I'm not naked, but I'm not using who I am. And I suppose feeling attractive and in shape and feeling good about yourself and using that to push this brand that is about sports and feeling good about yourself.

Like I can't deny that that's a link and I will be continuously pushing it. But I wouldn't get naked. And I'm not asking people to bet. I'm asking people to change their lives with a skipping rope. That's the main thing. I was right we're not talking about. It's a fucking betting company. that's that's that so so from my perspective it's like it's mad that's still like 50 60 years later

the idea is men are majority of men I think men are responsible for most gambling gambling addiction right it's like that's like really that's as far you'll just be like oh oh my god there's some boobs let me do some gambling like come on but it will work but it will work but I I suspect personally and this isn't verified but I wouldn't be surprised if scooter had something to do with the betting company. That's all I'm saying. It feels like scooters, dirty hands are all over this. Come on. That's all I'm saying. Like, that would, that's what, I don't know. But look, that's not, like, fuck that. That's not cool. Like, let's be clear. Like, that for me is, makes me question

Sidney's Sweeney's character. Regardless of like, whether or not we can deal with someone being naked. Like, listen, if you've got it flaunt it, I'm not, I think the human body should be naked as much as possible. I think it's great. We need to deal with the fact that we can be like, like, like, like, control. or like in some kind of lustful spell because someone's naked. Oh my God, tell me what you want. But we're talking about men, right, and what it will do for them. But to talk about young women and their relationship with sport,

my agent Jess, who is a shareholder in ropes and part of ropes with me, has been going to a lot of things about sports and media and our relationship with sports as young people and how it changes and evolves, right? But obviously there's a huge, huge gap between young boys' relationship with sport and women and when that changes and what age. And I think it's around 14 that about 60 or 70% of girls just lose interest and boys are encouraged to keep going. And that's something that I want to look at and try and tackle with ropes.

That's very important to us. And we do a lot of work with schools so that we can talk to kids as young as possible to try and understand their relationship with sport and try and get them to understand how important sport is. Oh, that was what just learned. Just learned that sport is more beneficial to young people or before you go out into the world as an adult, more beneficial than a university degree

in terms of how you work with people, how you learn about yourself. Right. So this is actually, you know, it is important for young women to see Sydney Sweeney in this ever and not say, I don't look like that. Maybe I shouldn't be, maybe sport isn't for me

or maybe I have to be sexy and sexualized to be part of even this thing called sports. Like maybe that would be quite dangerous, I think. And I hope that doesn't happen because what we want to feel is that Sidney Sweeney has autonomy in this decision and has clear intention in this decision. Exactly, but that's what I'm saying, like, let's talk about her character. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm not, I'm not like, I don't want to enter into the comparison, you know, kind of like what body's right, like, you know, I don't know, like if I feel like some people like those kind of bodies, some people don't apply their entire measurement of a person as to what they look like. And from, and like the fact that it's a betting company should show. you enough about like yeah call someone's attractive but where her morals lie fucking stand yeah bro like do you know what I mean like there's loads of buff people who were

fucking horrendous like come on like we need to move past this fantasy like we need to move past this fantasy but what I would say is I really hope that it's something like this doesn't detract and or continue to detract young people from what sports in particular can really do for the self yeah great

it's not even a sports advert like the inner self, but you're right, it's not even really sports have. Young people should learn that betting is awful. It's a betting advert using sports, isn't it? Sports is the biggest fucking grounds for betting. That is, these people are making millions and billions of pounds of people wishing that they had more money and gambling their shit. Like, it's fucking dangerous. They shouldn't be, like betting shouldn't be as heavily promoted on, as I think it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is another situation in life where the risk lies almost solely with people who do. don't have that much money.

Rich people can bet for a laugh all they want. But ultimately, the bread and butter is going to come from people who can't afford to make those mistakes. So there was that big campaign a few years ago called This Girl Can, and it was about getting young women back into sport. And it was great. It's very empowering. I really liked it, actually.

And it was very much based on, like, what sports can do for your inner self, confidence and how you see yourself in the world and what you believe of, you know, what you can achieve because the reward of sport is so immediate. That's why I play so much of it because it reminds me that I can win if I play hard and if I get out of my comfort zone and I jump into things quite literally skipping changed my life. It made me feel like I could do anything. And I just, if this was about purely sport, this was about like trying to get young women into sport and this was the this was the angle they went for, I'd be fucking appalled. But I kind of expect nothing less from a betting company.

Yep. When we go into schools to do these ropes days, we don't just go, we don't just do schools. We do, you know, different community projects. We did that raster gardening community project in Croydon. That was great. We got all those guys skipping. We also did a bereaved mums and children's group in Epping. We got them all skipping.

And I'm really using ropes to talk to as many different parts of community as I can because I really believe in community and community brought me up and brought me up and brought Jordan up as well. And we believe in the power of community. But the best thing about a rope stay is when we get to stay for lunch. Because sometimes, just sometimes they say, oh, would you guys like to stay for lunch? And it is so fun, Jordan, going back into like lunch hall with like the tiny little stalls and sitting at the tables and actually having school dinners. And I've been really pleasantly surprised about how good the school dinners I've personally had at these lunches that we've been very lucky to be part of.

But now in the news, there's a whole change in school dinners yet again. And the top line is more lentils, more chickpeas. And this change is just a change for England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland. Doing what they've always done. I'm sure it's delicious over there. But this is the change that England is seeing. They are banning, processed meat, great, to just one day a week. Sorry, not banning, but just restricting it to one day a week.

So hopefully we'll still see things like hearty shepherd's pies and spicy chicken curries and welcoming, comforting fish pies. That's what I want school dinners to continue to always have because that's what I used to love. We were having bangers and mash. We were having chicken pie. We were having, I used to have like lamb and potatoes. In both of those things, it's the pie, for one, not the chicken.

It's the pie. What do you mean? what you don't want to eat as a kid is pie. You can have chicken as part of a balanced meal. Why can't you have a chicken pie as a kid? A pie is pastry. Pastery. That's good for you. What?

Come on, a bit of pastry. Yeah, but like on a cold winter's day, a bit of chicken pie for a kid in at school dinners, I don't think is harmful. I think what really became harmful was when things became like chips, beans and cheese. Okay, oh yeah, fine. I mean, if the point is they used to be healthier, sure. But I mean, there's... I don't... I feel like in the 70s and 80s, they were really balanced, like, home-cooked meals. Yes, undeniably. Meals. Yeah, but the food industry has...

Drastically changed. Gone into hyperdrive. And that's not what kids... The kids are having, like, cheese and tomato paninis or like... I know, I hate much. Or, yeah, like deep-fried shit, like deep-fried chicken nuggets or chips or... And the whole thing is, is that, you know, If you want a healthy society, you obviously have to help them eat healthily. It's a no-brainer. And the fact that the government are doing this shows you, again, if a government is doing it, in my opinion, very cynical, it's because it's economically unviable to have people who are just, like, fucking tired and not learning and not thinking. And, you know, if they want to create great workers is a really bad way to do it is by feeding kids with, like, a loaded junk.

Yeah. Fried food and sugars. All I know is that as a kid, I didn't have money for lunch, right? The only things I could afford in the canteen was shite. Cookies, like chocolate, like... You mean you were on token? If I could get tokens, yeah. Otherwise, I'd just be...

Either have a pat lunch or the spare change I'd get from my paper round or whatever I would use to buy food at lunch. But, like, you can't buy anything of any substance. Also, the other important thing is, even if I could, I didn't have the information for me to understand how nutrition even works. Japan, for example, teaches kids about nutrition. And Japan is the healthiest. country in the world and they and it's not tough. Japan and Finland apparently have the best school

dinners around the world. Yeah but they made a decision to do that. They literally that my my friend wrote a book about it, we included it in a book about focus and like one of the leading reasons why people can't fucking focus is because they're gut is full of shit. They're proving it. Yeah. Like if you eat shit you can't think straight like that's it. I just wish that we would go back to the past rather than a sort of vegetarian future. I think it I think like those home-cooked meals were really... Well, that's another conversation though, because like, you know,

there is also, I mean, the... Yeah, look, look, like fucking farming. Battery farming. Yeah, horrendous. Yes, but there was this incredible initiative that happened in Hackney that's still happening

that one of our producers, kids in their school, it's still there. And it was called chefs for schools. Henry Dimbleby did it. He's the guy that started Leon. And that was about, like, getting chefs from the industry,

from the hospitality industry. to come in and be the chefs at schools and completely changed school dinners. And it really did and it's still an initiative I think that's spread out in a few schools but it didn't really become the way things were. And my makeup artist Antonio, you met her the other day. She's like 28 and I was asking her about her school dinners

and she was there when Jamie Oliver's impact was felt. Big up Jamie Oliver, bro. These parents were putting McDonald's through to school gates. I know, that was. No, that was shocking. They were rinsing, they were rinsing, Jamie. People still to this day don't forgive him for getting rid of turkey twizzlers. People to this day.

Why do you think people don't forgive him? Because let's just remind people, Jamie Oliver, when was it? Late 90s, early naughties, Jamie Oliver started an incredible initiative to get the crap that was being fed to kids out of schools. And these things called turkey twizzlers then became, I suppose, like this whole kind of benchmark for crap. That really fucked up that company, turkey twizzlers, right? People are fuming to this day, Makita. You can still talk to a certain person who was a kid at that time. And they're like, fuck Jamie Oliver.

Still. Yeah, no, Antonio was like, he took away my turkey twizzlers and my chicken burgers. He took away my turkey twos. You know why? Because these children are addicts. This is what you're trying to stop. Like, you're feeding. You know the crazy thing about fried food yet is it touches a part of your reward zone in your brain?

Like, if you mix sugar and fat like at the same time, do you know about this, right? This is what they clocked. If you have a certain amount of sugar and fat at the same time, it creates this like, whoa, in your brain, right? And then you're like, this is the best thing ever. Let me eat you all the time. Fried chicken. Can I, can I tell you about one experiment, which is fucking nuts?

Yeah, just to deep how fuck the food industry can be. Yeah. So they had these rats, yeah, like in, also shout of rats again. That's what I'm saying, right? The rats are always the first ones to fucking experience this shit for us. They had these rats in these cages. And the rats just normal life, they'd eat these pellets. In the pellets, they have, like, everything that you need that's for the day.

and they normally just eat enough of the pellets and then they stop eating. You know, that's what it is. They know how much they need and they sleep at the right time. They do all the normal things. They put a cheesecake in this enclosure. The rat ate all of the cheesecake like at once, right?

And then completely lost like a sense of like when to eat, how much to eat and when to sleep, right? This rat has just completely, circadian rhythm was gone. Like everything was off. But that's not even the worst part about it. The worst part about it is, they then took the cheesecake away and put the pellets back

and the rats didn't eat the pellets. Fuck. That is the issue of the food industry. It's not that there is an option to eat something sugary and fatty. It's that if you eat it enough, you will lose memory. Like, do you know how normal it is for someone

to say, I don't like vegetables? Do you know how mental that is? I know. Trees, the trees, they blossom and a thing appears. And a fruit, a peach appears. Off the tree. And it goes, here you are.

For no reason. It goes, here's something to make your body work. Like, it's actual magic. And we're eating cardboard, bro. No, totally. There's this line in a mandaland where Anne, who's like a really like, you know, protective parent who's just like overly protective and freaked out by things. They're like picking fruit or something off the tree.

And she's like, Darius, no to her son. And she's like, it's off the tree, Anne. She goes, well, I don't trust any fruit. That's not from any of the five big soup. market. Like, yeah. But it's like, that is where we're at. That you'd be like, I trust more ASDA than I would.

The tree that bears the fruit. And also, can we just be, let's really zoning on this. That like, why? This is what's so crazy. Like, I was just reading this book at the moment. And one of the early opening chapters is, it's about like Native American like knowledge, right? And they're just, this, this is like two pages where this woman is just explaining like what, like the benefits of a nut being barricaded.

Like a nut has armor, right? A tree makes a nut and then puts armor on it so that a squirrel wouldn't be able to to break through the guard of the nut in the open, otherwise they get eaten by hawk. So what it does is means that us as humans can take the nuts and store them for the mumps that the tree isn't making anything. Whoa, dude. Dude! Don't make me sing circle of life.

But, brother, like, this is what I'm saying, like, how detached do we have to be from existence? Same thing. People who don't like vegetables, finished. People who don't like, who doesn't like the taste of water, finished. Finished.

Remember I told you I got that bird book by Robert McFarlane? Obviously, it's a book about birds, but it's really actually about us, I realized the other day. It's about our relationship with nature. It is, it is our relationship.

And also just the way, like, there's this whole beautiful chapter in it. This is an amazing book. It's called The Book of Birds by Robert McFarlane. I've talked about it a lot. And he's a poet,

but also a writer. So it's very, poetic but informative. And he talks just, there's two pages about the nest, right? And what it spiritually means to build a nest and how a bird does it, right? And I'm like, that's us, just with different things. But it's all the same intention and it's all the same spiritual needs. And it really, it really does mean that if we lock into what has been given to us, i.e. the fruit from a tree. Like that's, you can like settle into the fact that you have everything you need. which is an incredible way to live.

Like the idea, I need my turkey twizzlers. Of course you don't. No, of course. You don't. And you've been, and it's by design. They've made this because they know that you'll think you need the turkey twislers. I'll tell you, I did a thing, right? And I understand I have willpower.

Like I do, I've got a good amount of willpower. I'd say, if I'm basing it on my personal experience, above average willpower, right? Yeah, you do. I was thinking about it last night, actually. And I remember a friend. of mine gave me a, I won't even say the brand because they do other good things, but a deep fried piece of food, right? A deep fried from a brand that have a particular flavor for this food. And I took one bite and I looked her dead in her eyes and said, never give me that again.

And I didn't say this because it wasn't tasty. I said it because it was the tastiest shit. You said it because it was impressive. Yeah. And I'm like, do you think I'm stupid? Do you think, do you think, Do you think if I don't eat one, two, three at ease, that's all I'm going to dream about for the next week. Like, it's insane. It's like crack. I've gone through periods of time where I've come off sugar. When I eat that chocolate, like, even around Easter, right? Because I normally eat dark chocolate.

When I go into milk chocolate around Easter, Miquita, it's all I can think about every day. I wake up and I'm going, I need more milk chocolate. Like that is, it is so addictive. Your willpower says to you to just not have it. Oh my God. No, that's, yeah. That is the last remnants of my healthy self is. the first bite. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. The more you bite, the less, the, the, the, the more clouded

that person becomes, you know, but that's like being an alcoholic as well. It's like, I'm just going to have a few drinks. It's like, but then you're in the game. Oh, you're in there. Well, it varies with different people, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's an addiction. But now, you know, mainly now it's me, it's my phone and other things. But, but, but yeah, look. I don't want to jump from too many things, but I just want to say there's also a question, there's also a conversation here to be had about class. Yeah, they make healthy food expensive. Exactly. But not just healthy food expensive. It's like, I wonder what they're being fed in private schools for school dinners.

This is the irony is that the world's upside down, yeah? Like, back in the day, like, being bigger was a sign of affluence, right? Like, like, if, like, you were like King Henry the fucking 8th, you're tubby because you're rich. And now, and, and, you know, you'd have like the, the, like, uh, fucking underclass that the surfs of the time, you know, historically thin, nimble workers, eating porridge basically every day. And now it's the opposite way. now the rich have commodified health, being thin as a signification of wealth,

because if you have very little, you have to rely on, like, the irony is like, gruel. Grul is healthier than a lot of what. Yeah, gruel's great. It's better than eating fucking cookies with milk for breakfast. No, totally. You know? Actually, I feel like in poverty, my mum talks about this a lot in cooking, like a lot of the, the things that we were given as scraps, we turned into beautiful.

things because we had to like ox tail oh 100% yeah taken by the rich and and you know it costs like 40 quid to eat oxtail in a posh restaurant but that's what that was the scraps they gave us to turn into something great

so I mean before things got all like processed I feel like there was with no money you had to work with what you had what the land gave you what the world gave you and people were eating better with less Yes, they were eating better with less because people had also more time.

This is the other thing, which I have deep empathy for. Let me be clear when I say this. You're right to talk about class because when I talk about this too, understandably there'll be people who are fucking struggling who I don't ever want them to feel guilty or ashamed of their choices when they've got the boot on their neck care. Like that's, I don't, I really want to be clear about that. It is the system and the environment and the information accessible. Those are the issues I'm going against.

It's not the individuals. I know, like, because, for example, cost of living has got so bad recently that, like, I've spoken to people before where their reason for not having, so, for example, my mom, when we were poor, she would make batch meals, right? So start that, she'd start the week with, like, a fucking huge tub of, like, it was like veggie bolognese kind of thing. And then every night would eat like that with pasta, basically. Like, and that would stretch out, the ingredients would stretch out for the whole week, right?

Which is still viable for people. But now some people are in such bad scenarios that like they can't even afford to have fresh produce because if they don't cook it, right? Let's say they're tired from work or whatever else. Firstly, that becomes wasted. They can't afford that to go out. And secondly, some people literally can't even afford to have the stove on for that long. That's actually, you know, and in a lot of working class places, you see a lot of people who don't even have energy contracts. They're just buying canisters.

You know, they're buying gas canisters. to go through that home. Yeah, because that's legitimately, you know, if you saw some of the first people to benefit from, like, everybody being trapped in their houses and not having any other options in the winter were energy companies, it's despicable. No, but I remember when we were in deep poverty

for years and years and years and years. And we constantly, the electricity would get cut off constantly. We didn't have enough money to put more on the key. That's when you know you're fucked. Yeah. So you've got no lights and no hot water and no cooker and no fridge. My mum's still putting on her jackets now, bro, in winter.

Yeah, yeah. That woman is sat in the house in a winter coat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's ingrained in you. Yeah. Which is interesting because Emma's from money. Yeah, she was born into money. And, like, remember, my granddad,

my granddad was married five times. No, I didn't know. No one's got any money. But that's why my life is so, is so bizarre because I was living on an estate on the doll, but my mom has middle class values. She doesn't have, she never had, My mom has never, ever, ever had money.

And also she ran away from home. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also the other thing about that is like growing up in affluence like that at that time, like, oh my God, some of the stories I hear from those spaces like boarding schools, it's no wonder to me why you end up with so many, like, traumatized people in positions of power because what the fuck is happening in boarding schools? That's a whole other episode.

Yeah, it really is. I'd actually really like to do that. But just to come back to, yeah, living in extreme poverty. and I remember we couldn't turn the cook on for once maybe like two weeks and it was just cold food cold food and it's winter and you're cold and that's...

What's your favourite struggle meal? Oh my God, I love... I actually love you. Favorite struggle meal um... um... Veen's on toast because it was the kind of

usually the comeback to we've got electricity again we could heat the beans. I'd be like, woo, we are back. Yeah, cold beans on toast. No, cold beans on toast. That's the real struggle meal. We've had like beans on bread. But then when you've got beans on toast,

you're like, we are back in the money. And it felt good. It felt really good. I wasn't scared. I wasn't like, we're not really. I was like, no, we're good now. We've got £10 on the electricity key. We're fucking good for a minute.

Yeah. That's how you live, in it? Uptown. Anyway, that's why we became hard workers in our teens. So we could eat whatever we wanted. for the rest of our lives. And now we both have gout. Don't bring me into this.

I'm not a foodie like that. I'm really not. I know you're not. Yeah. Every meal is a struggle meal for me. What an interesting day of conversation with you, Jordan. Lovely. I did try and see you in Margate this weekend.

I was in Margate. You were in Margate. Yeah, but you wrong my mum, but you didn't ring me. I know because I thought you'd be in conversation because that's what the flyer said, in conversations. I was like, I'm not going to call me. I'm like, yeah, I'm with my mates. I'm about what you're saying.

I was like, I'll call Emma. And then Emma didn't pick up. She was busy organizing it all. Yeah. Ships in the night in Margate this weekend. Shout out Habibi, but can I say, if you want some good Lebanese, brav. Yeah, that's the restaurant.

Margate is, no, no, Makita, Makita, I'm being dead ass, Habibi. Should we have gone? Fire. Really? Miquita. Listen, fire. Fantastic Lebanese food, fire.

It is unreal. Got it. When I next go to Margate, I'll hit up, Habibi, we did go to a wonderful little Italian restaurant. There's some fucking good restaurants. market. Yeah. I feel like I've got quite a lot to dwell on after today's conversations and I hope you all do too. And we'll see

you for listen bitch. I have no fucking idea what the theme is. I can't remember at all. It is eras of time. Oh yeah. Yeah, we might be losing it. We might be losing the plot a little bit. Ears of time. I really hope people understood our intention with that. We just really want to talk about everything

from the 1600s to the present day. So let's see what the questions are saying. We'll see you and listen, bitch. Bye, John. Love, bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persephonica show.