Miss Me? - Mummy Issues

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver are back with another Meaty Drop.This time round, the girls discuss arguments with mums, a puppy that is about to arrive in Miquita's life, Diane Abbott, and why you should always back yourself and NEVER make something to please someone else - ever!To get in touch, email [e-mail] you've been affected by anything you've heard in this episode you can find support at bbc.co.uk/actionline.This episode contains strong language and adult themes.Credits:Producer: Matt Thomas Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan HaskinsMiss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. on Rogers Internet. Visit rogers.com for details. We got you. Rogers. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Miss Me does contain some adult themes and some very, very strong language. Mainly from the kids. Mainly from Lil. Welcome to Miss Me.

Hello. And actually, I do miss you, Lily Allen. Aw, thanks, Keats. That's so nice. I do miss you a bit. I do miss you a bit. Well, you could just come and see me me because guess what? I'm in London. I know you're in London, but I'm too busy to see you and you're too busy to see me, which is why we're FaceTiming.

Don't miss me that much then, do you? I just, I do miss you. I just have previous engagements. Yeah, I'm here with my kids. You know, your godchild. What? She'd like to see you too. I didn't know the kids were here. Mm-hmm. Oh, right. Is that what you meant by we're coming for spring break?

Yes. No, I thought you meant they were going somewhere for their spring break holidays, so you were going to come to London. They are. They're going to their dad's this afternoon, so your window of opportunity is closing. I don't even have an hour off. That's upsetting.

I didn't know they would be here. There you go. I'll tell them that. I didn't know they were coming. I know I'm not a great godmother and I intend to be better you will be so you're in Portobello back in the ends and back in the bits

how do you feel when you're back in Labrador Grove I like it it's different I'm in a different stage in my life I actually see the morning now I got up this morning I like it. You know, it's different. I'm in a different stage in my life. So like, I actually see the morning now. Like when I get, you know,

I got up this morning at like 6.30 and I went out and got myself a coffee. You know, all of the like little local coffee shops are having their pastries delivered. And I thought, I never really used to see this side of London when I was in my teens and my twenties

because I was asleep or still up. And, you know, that's nice. It's nice. There are certain little pockets of West London that still feel like there's some sort of, you know, soul still there. And there are others that don't so much.

But the thing is, but that's because we, I think, when you grow up in an area and it gets gentrified, which so many people know about because half of London has gone through this process, there is a bit of it that's sad. And there's a part of it you miss, that kind of soul of people that have been there forever. I've been spending a lot of time in West London, where we're from, in Labrador Grove. And I feel like I know what you mean. I've found more pockets of where that energy still is from our childhood.

And it feels really good that Notting Hill survived through through all the gentrification it still has a vibe we could have very easily had everything stripped but it's still it's still home but you know i can't really talk i'm moved to new york to carol gardens which is you know meant people would say that that has now become a gentrified area and i'm part of that gentrification process. So I'm guilty of it myself. Yeah, but I live in a new build in Hackney, a part of Hackney that was called Murder Mile and is now very gentrified. And I feel like because my parents were here for 25 years,

I'm not the problem. I just live in one of the problems. See, that's such a nice view. That actually is 30% social housing in my block, which should be a hell of a lot more, but at least there's still that because that used to not even exist. But West London is where my heart is,

which is why I've decided to have my 40th birthday. Sorry, come again. What did you just say? Why can't I embrace this? My 40th um birthday sorry come again what did you just say why can't I embrace this my 40th birthday it's coming up isn't it yes it is it's only a couple of weeks now isn't it really two or three weeks it's a it's five weeks in five weeks I will be um I'll be uh what's wrong with me over that hill I'll be over that hill and no longer desirable I can't wait she'll be, I'll be, what's wrong with me? Over that hill. I'll be over that hill and no longer desirable. I can't wait. She'll be running up that hill.

This is what I mean. Why can't I Kate Bush it? Why can't I see it as running up a hill and standing on top of a mountain going, come on, new decade. And I was thinking about it. I was having a really good day yesterday at work. And then me and a girl I work with, Natty, we went for a little walk because we had an hour break and I was thinking God I think I think I love life today I don't know I just love life and I went five more weeks of this

literally to the point where I believe that on April the 25th when I turn 40 years old everything about my life will change for the worse. Sorry, you just said I love life. I've just realized I haven't taken my antidepressants. Do you want to do that now? She's going to do that quickly, yeah. Do you want to do that now? I mean, I love that we're talking about it like you're not doing this next year. And this one year between us has always been a thing.

We have to be honest about this. And of course, it was the other way around. So when I turned 16 and Libby was 15, I was like, God, I'm cool and you're not and you're still a kid and I've got this. And of course, it was the other way around. So when I turned 16 and Libby was 15, I was like, God, I'm cool and you're not and you're still a kid and I've got this. But by the time I turned 18,

I was like, I'm old and I want to be 17. So I've had a problem with getting older since we were really, really young. You've had serious hangups

about it, about age. You've always felt like it's sort of creeping up on you, haven't you? Yeah, I've basically been 40 since I was 19. And also, you know, as we get older,

you have like a glaringly genetic advantage in the ageing department. That is so sweet. You bitch. That is so sweet of you to say. But don't worry. Don't worry. You got this Welsh, Italian, whatever's going on to make you look like a sort of Spanish person.

I need to talk to you today about our mothers and how it's possible to still have such incredibly large fights with them and have so much rage even at the age of 39 and 11 months. Yeah, I had a whopper actually this weekend as well. I know you did too. Let's do yours first. Did I tell you about it? Oh, God.

No, you didn't. You said you wanted to save it for the podcast. And that's where our lives are at right now. Basically, I'm having a crisis. And I didn't realize. And my mum told me I was. And I found that really hard. She said, you're basically having a crisis.

And I was like, fuck you. This is not a crisis. And then I hung up and I was like, I think I've smashed a glass and broken a handle on a dog. I think I might be having a crisis. Wait, is this the argument that you had about the dog? Yes. Okay. On top of turning 40, I don't have children.

And I'm not even ready for children. I'd love to have some children in the next few years. If that happens, God willing, that would be beautiful. But I would love a puppy. Okay. So I'm getting a puppy. And my mum has been so negative about this beautiful new thing I'm bringing into my life. And look, do you want to see her? I found her this weekend. Yeah, I would just like to say here, I do feel like there is some sort of like codependency issues going on between the two of you. From my mother, right?

Well, I just, well, both of you really, because you are about to be 40. And the idea that you're sort of like running it past her that you are getting a dog and looking for her, you know, sort of validation or acceptance of it. Or allowance of it. Yeah, it's like indicative of some kind of codependent issue. Like, you know, you don't live with her. You live on your own. You're 40 years old.

I have a 39, Lily! Okay, whatever. If you want a puppy, just get a fucking puppy. You don't have to ask your mum. It's not that. I mean, I guess it is. Yeah. So I need to grow up.

You're opening the door for her to criticize you so don't open the door just call her up and be like I got a puppy suck on that I can't do that but I am doing it I went to I did do it I just couldn't in the middle of the crisis but I just said look I'm good because the thing, I was brought up by my mom, just me and her. And you had your mom and then Sarah, your sister, and Alfie, your brother. So you had two siblings that you grew up with. And so there's this intensity in a single parent family. I'm sure people will relate to and understand.

It's just like, yes, you are this codependent team. Even though my stepdad came into my life 27 years ago, it's still, we get into this headlock of like us in a flat with just us to fight with each other. I mean, you can't escape each other. My mom was like, I never had another parent to go, I can't deal with this nightmare kid. Please take her off my hands. So it's like, yeah, you're kind of brought up in this heat and intensity so it's very easy to get back there and of course she did what you did she went i can't believe you're behaving like this at 40 years old and that just spiraled i didn't know that's not what i did by the way i just said you don't have to ask your mom permission to get a puppy this is what i mean i took myself into a child's space in the fight.

And as a grown woman, I should have just said, like you said, I'm getting a puppy. Suck on this, is what you said. Suck on that. Anyway, I'm getting the puppy. She's beautiful. Can I show you? Yeah. But then, of course, now I'm like, can I look after a puppy? And I, yes. Give me a break. She filled you with fear. Yeah, she planted the seed.

Well done, Andy. Oh, here she is. Little gorgeous thing. Oh, oh my God. What is she? A labradoodle or something? She's a cocker spaniel show. I don't know what that means,

but that's very, she's very cute. We got to this lovely town and I went with my friend Seb, who has a dog that he kind of rescued from a slum in Rio. So I was like, he'll understand this process. And we get there, we're like, isn't it nice? Tennis courts everywhere. Oh, Village Green, this is nice. Then we take a sharp left into just like this intense like trailer park site, basically.

And like my cousin lived on site. I've got a lot of aunties and uncles who lived on site and brought up their kids on site but they didn't know that and i guess my energy doesn't give off that so they were like what the fuck are you doing here what do you want and i was like is this golden pond and they were like yeah why and luckily this guy was like hi you're here for me and he was really nice and they know the mum. They're not breeders. They've just got, you're only allowed one dog per family on site if you live in a trainer.

So it was, it was really, it's like a nice thing. Dad's called Levi. Son's called Levi. Nice. Yeah. He was fit, actually, the dad. Sorry. Were you called the dog Levi?

I nearly thought that, but I thought, no. I quite like the name Levi for a dog. Me too, but Phoebe said it was Naff, cousin Phoebe. What are you going to call it? I'm naming my puppy Zedekiah after my stepdad's grandfather. And so she will just be called Zed. Zed-E-D-D. Zedekiah.

Okay. Oh, Zed. Zeddy. I'll probably just call her Shmushmul. That's cute, actually. Yeah, she's cute. Thank you. It was a hard fight.

It was a hard fight. It's hard to be told that you're having a crisis by the one woman who probably knows when you're having a crisis. Your mother. But you and Alison, because obviously our parents are best friends, you and your mum don't fight like me and my mum.

It's not so ragey. Yes, but I have quite a lot of independence from my mum. You know, I don't rely on her for anything really. Although actually that's not true. I did borrow some money off of her a couple of, about a year ago. And she is a wonderful nanny Ali to your daughters. Nanny Ali. Yes. Nanny Ali is the name we give Auntie Alison. That is her grandma name. Did she choose it? She did, didn't she? Yeah. Nanny Ali to your daughters. Nanny Ali, yes. Nanny Ali is the name we give Auntie Alison. That is her grandma name. Did she choose it?

She did, didn't she? Yeah. Nanny Ali. I don't really fight with her because I just get, as soon as I feel like it's going down that road, I just, Renee, you know, I just back away. But sometimes I get on very, very well with my stepdad. And, you know, he annoys my mum a lot and i often take well

i don't know i often agree with him and when i'm agreeing with him it sends her over the fucking edge of course and she thinks that she's being ganged up on by the both of us. Is there any truth in that? No, absolutely not. It's difficult for me to talk about in this sort of public forum. But, you know, she is... I had to share my shit. Tell me, what was the fight this week about? I can't comment.

I mean, it's been a difficult week for my mum. One of her best friends died last week. And so there's a bit of a sort of um you know mortality thing going on she's incredibly upset and it came out of nowhere so it's been a real shock and there's some other stuff that's kind of going on within the family as well that she's trying to deal with and it's difficult it's difficult and she's extremely busy with work yeah so is my mum she's doing a film that's coming out in a couple of months and so so, you know, it's been, it's a tough time for her. I think that's good that you can see that

because I think that is the beauty of getting older is being able to go, oh yeah, you're probably going through your own shit and you're not just here to be, I mean, this is again, just maybe me. I feel like she's sometimes just here to be my mother and she's actually just a woman going through her own shit yes I kind of feel like I have got quite good at relying on my husband and my therapist when I need you know emotional support I kind of rely on my mum for like practical support you know like help put help with my kids money cash cash money cash and kids mainly um kids yeah i think um what is it the saying there's a really nice saying where it's like

stop looking for things from someone you know can't who you know can't give them to you yes so i'm like why isn't my mom reacting better it's like she never reacts well to this stuff if i am going through something my mum can't fix it, she panics and gets angry. Yes. That's what happens. So I know that. So why am I looking there for anything in that realm?

Thank you for the therapy session. Stroke, miss me. Episode record. Let's take a journey back to 2003 Canadian teen sensation Avril Lavigne was topping the charts

and turning the music industry upside down but what if I told you that the Avril Lavigne we know and love might not be the same Avril

what? did Avril die? was she replaced by a doppelganger? I'm Joanne McNally, and I'm doing a deep dive into a notorious internet conspiracy. Who replaced Avril Lavigne? Listen on BBC Sounds. It was a tough little week. You know, I think I also, I had a few weird things happen where, It was a tough old week. You know, I think I also I had a few weird things happen where in, you know, there was an awful thing happened in the world. I felt like maybe we shouldn't talk about it. Because for me, anyway, it's such a painful thing to talk about. Talking about the incident with Diane Abbott. The Frank Hester Conservative Party donor.

Yeah, saying comments that we won't even repeat. And then there was commentary that these words may lead to violence occurring. But the violent act, in my opinion, has already happened. With these words, the violent act has occurred. It's like the act of violence is that language and that commentary. It's so distressing. And I think that what unfolded afterwards was, you know, like triggering and just grotesque.

And then, you know, Rishi Sunak stood up in Prime Minister's Questions addressing the comments last week and then took it upon himself to say that you know frank hester has now apologized and i think we can all move on it's like i think we can all move on and let's minimize this and this is what makes me sick it's like i think the people feeling like this moment's passed and this was something that happened last week and we can move on. That's the issue. That's the problem. She was there in Prime Minister's questions

and he thought that it was his job to accept that apology to go to say, I think we can all agree. It's like, no, why don't you ask the person who he made the comments about whether she is willing to accept that apology. She's here. Let's ask her what she's going through. Diane Abbott is a serving member of Parliament,

the first black woman ever elected to the British Parliament and the longest serving black MP this country has ever had. I mean, the amount of support that... I mean, they did a rally and a whole beautiful evening of support for Diane Abbott near my house in Hackney outside Town Hall. And she needed that. She needed to feel protected because I'm mixed race and my dad is Scottish, white Scottish man.

My mom is black Caribbean. And for a long time in my life, I did not relate to the black side of myself and I didn't feel close to it. And I was very much ashamed of it. And there were things that used to happen with people that we know that I would just put up with and sometimes it was things that were easier to put up with but only in retrospect I see now like for instance like two people that we know would say but that's because you're a bit like this and what they would do is point at me and sort of do a rubbing face motion like I had dirt on me. And then everyone would laugh and I'd fucking laugh with them. And I'm ashamed of that time.

And I've learned so much more about my heritage now through the work I've done with my mother and because I've wanted to know more. And this is the ongoing continuation of violence and hate towards black women for millennia is exhausting. And it hurts. It really hurts. It cuts your soul. Thinking about it, all the history of it. And for people to say, I think that happened last week.

It's just like, that's the problem. last week it's just like that's the problem it makes me very sad to hear you say that you felt ashamed of yourself having to sit through that and laugh along with it because if I can you know offer you anything is that I think that anybody in that situation when you're outnumbered like it's not on you to stand up for yourself and for you know people of the same color skin as you like what the hell else were you meant to do like you don't you you're all so really young like you and we and I don't think that we had access to you know the language that we have now and this is my point though Lil we know more now so we should do better absolutely we all know more now and we should do better. We all know more now and we should do better

and the lack of consequence around this hideous incident is shameful. Yeah, I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Thank you for saying that though about my younger self who was a bit lost. Yeah, I mean, the thing is I can't remember that happening but I would like to think that if I had been in that situation where somebody had said that to you, that I would have stood up for you. I certainly would now. I would not stand for it, as you know. Would you? Absolutely.

I love that. that i mean i think that in the last five years you know we've made some progress in terms of you know how we're talking about these things i mean i think that a lot of what you know what came out of it was this like complete unwillingness to even acknowledge it the comments as racist and it's like how can how can how can we be here how can we be here how can you not and the only thing i can think of is just it's just people that just can't refuse to look themselves in the mirror and and be accountable for their own actions and their own words do you know i did to cheer myself up i'm not even joking what i can't believe i'm telling you this i watched um li Lily Allen videos what why because there's two that make me really happy

which ones it's not fair okay I just love that video it's um quite timely actually because of the uh I mean if anything you were pretty ahead of the curve We could just send a little pigeon to carry a pigeon to Beyonce's team to let them know that Lily actually jumped on this country and Western thing time ago. You were 24. So this was about 15 years ago. Come now. And you're in that black wig. You look so fab. I'm sorry. You just look so fab. and it's interesting because when we were away on holiday we did discuss you saying i hate dancing and not only do you dance in this video you like shimmy the whole performance actually there's a lot of like side mic and going to the side and then in the break bit you do that kind of country and western stamping bit and then you're like

and i was like she's so confident i think i had some choreography i think i might have done a bit like a day or two i wouldn't have been any longer than that i really think you should be extremely proud of the music video it's not fair ahead of its time game changing she actually went to go the girl that directed that video went on to direct, I think, quite a lot of the Lemonade stuff, Beyonce stuff. What did I say? Yeah. What did I say? Beyonce, you're welcome.

You're welcome. So maybe country album next, Lil? Well, I am going to Nashville next week. Aren't you just? Coincidence? I think not. I don't think so. Yes.

No, I don't know if I'm going to go down a full-on country road, but I do appreciate the storytelling elements of country and Western music. And so, yeah, I think working with some people from that realm could be interesting. We'll see how it goes. I'll report back. Have you seen the Shania Twain documentary on Netflix? I have not.

Oh my God, it's so brilliant. The way she crosses over. Really? And she has so much pain in her life. Like, yeah, I won't ruin it for you, but she comes from so much pain. Look what she did. Look what she did. She channeled it into her art speaking of art have you consumed any any culture this week oh wait a minute have i consumed any culture this week okay yeah i watched um american fiction oh yeah i watched that what did you think i really liked it but then i got confused i got confused at the end. Why?

Because I was like, because obviously American fiction, Oscar winning film, best original screenplay. And it is beautifully written by this young black director who'd never made a film before. And it's great. It's quite meta. It's about the, well, actually, yeah, time taps into what we were talking about. It's sort of like the overzealous approach to lack of diversity within art and literature and film and sort of within that people going over the top and no sincerity in needing diversity.

I mean, I'm explaining this terribly. Lily, could you do a better synopsis? Well, OK, so it's about a guy that is a black author explaining this terribly lily could you do a better could you do a better synopsis well okay so it's about a guy that is a black author and he is frustrated because the um black literature that's being sort of heralded is something that he sees as being quite derivative of black culture yes and so he then tries to emulate that by writing a book that he considers to be uh not very good and it it does really well yeah but it's interesting because he he yeah it does really well and he starts making loads of money and he's a huge success but he uses the

pseudonym and what's interesting is what what i was thinking about this with work what is better to have success with something you're not proud of and true say ashamed of or to make work you're proud of and no one sees it or experiences it uh I mean I I think making work that you're proud of and and that no one sees it and I really wholeheartedly believe that I I in when I did my third album I was sort of like pressured into a releasing that somewhere only we know which I do think is a great song if it's sung by keen and not myself but that was because it was on the M&S Christmas advert right John Lewis John Lewis and but they they released it like a couple of weeks before I I'd released Hard Out Here and so it was very confusing in the marketplace I think that my fans hadn't seen me for like five years and then I came back

with these two songs that were so sort of like at the polar opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of um messaging or whatever and um and then after that came a song that I still maintain as my worst you know sort of creative output thus far which is a song called air balloon and I would you know it was produced by a really hot producer at the time and the record company I remember them saying like you know if you don't go with this as the next single morale is going to be really low within the record company and we can't guarantee that we're gonna back you and I didn't have the sort of confidence at the time to um to stick to my guns and so I was like okay and then sure enough everyone thought it was trash you know that was a real example of me you know if somebody was

dangling the carrot of success and was going like this is the path to success and I was like okay let me just follow the path and it all going wrong and and I'd much you know no shame which was my fourth studio album which did by far the worst commercially was what I think the best work that I've ever done. And I'm way prouder of that than pretty much anything else that I've done, except for maybe The Fear, because I do think that's a brilliant song. It is brilliant.

And No Shame was reviewed better than any album that I've ever done. It got nominated for a Mercury Prize. It was, even though it was a commercial's failure, it was a critical success. Yes, so you felt proud of it. I did. Which changes the whole experience for a person and I think that it's that's why this film is so good because it makes you question these things about kind of what what is the work that we want to put out and why and what does it

mean to be proud of the work that you do and what does other people's idea of you being a success really mean to you and it's something that I come up against when I'm in the studio because quite often I'll be working with people and they'll be like oh you know you can't say that people don't want to hear that and I have to be really strict I don't give a fuck what people want to hear I am this is how I feel and that is my job is to like be an artist and express myself I'm not writing songs for people. I'm writing them for myself. No, but you can't make anything for anyone else because then it's just bollocks.

Yeah. So this is very much just for us, this podcast. We are literally making this for each other because we miss each other so... So damn much. So damn much. Thank you. I love when you get deep about your work life with me.

Sometimes you do, not always. Sometimes you open the door and let a little out. Hi, David Harbour. You're on Miss Me. Hi, David Harbour. You're on Miss Me. Hi, David. Welcome to Miss Me. He's like, no, no, not today. I can't be on Miss Me.

I'm exhausted. I just got off my shoot, so. Okay. Can I call you in 15 minutes? You'll have to do the podcast without me. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I can't be your celebrity guest. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I can't be your celebrity guest. Oh, what?

I'm sorry, Makeeda, I failed you. Okay, goodbye. Don't tease me. Don't tease me and say you'll be a guest. Listen, we have a second camera and a second mic, mainly for if David feels like ever sitting next to you. It's the only guest I'm interested in. Possibly David for a minute.

I'm sure we can get him in. He'll probably want to come and check the room that he just paid loads of money to have refurbished. Yes, but don't push him. Don't push him. I'm not going to push him. Do you think that my husband needs any pushing from into a camera?

He fucking loves it. In fact, I reckon I could probably sit out of an episode one time and you can just do it with David. Don't tease me. Because you know how much I love that man. Great. Maybe when I go on holiday and I don't have Wi-Fi, you can do it with David from home.

That would be fun. Okay, someone put that down. That's recorded, isn't it? Yep. Do you think they'll get that past the BBC? Do you think they'll be all right with that? I think so. I'll talk them into it.

Oh, it's so nice to see his little face. He's all tired and hard-worked. I know. He's been up all night. He's doing nights. Night shoots. Night shoots. In like what?

Like Minnesota? Yeah. Yeah. Stranger Things. Stranger Things. Last series. Last series. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Miss Me.

Miss Me. I hope we gave you everything you wanted. It's going to be a rollercoaster, this journey. It is. I feel like it wasn't as funny as last week's show, but never mind. Don't worry, I'll make you laugh again, but I can't pretend. I'm feeling a bit fragile this week as well, after the whole little child life-ruining debacle, which I can't pretend. I'm feeling a bit fragile this week as well, after the whole little child life ruining debacle

which we won't go into. Exactly. We're human beings and we're feeling a bit fragile. I'm sure that came through. I'm sure that came through in today's episode. And you can join us on Monday for Listen Bitch and we will be talking about lying.

I have to be honest, I'm not looking forward to it. We've got Liza Minnelli over here. She's told a few whoppers in her time. I think that goes for both of us. Lovely talking to you today,

my darling. And I will see you on Monday. Bye, love. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita oliver this is a persophonica production for bbc sounds exciting times ellis oh is it why well our brand new podcast is here two releases a week and we get to leave behind the shackles of live radio and draconian vaping laws of broadcasting house ellis we are the pioneers of digital Britain,

grasping the opportunity to redefine the audio landscape through powerful, impactful, dynamic conversation. You and I will inspire the next generation of free thinkers. What are your aims and aspirations for this new dawn? Uh, I'll try to arrive on time and not eat mango on air You know what, I'll take that The Ellis James and John Robbins Podcast Out on Tuesdays and Fridays

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