Miss Me? - Netflix and Kill

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss Christmas no.1’s, Band Aid and boxing matches.This episode contains very strong language, adult themes and discussions about child loss. If you have been affected by any of the issues raised, you can find support via the BBC Action Line: https://bbc.co.uk/actionline/ Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes and mentions of child loss that some people might find upsetting. Hello darling, how are you? How are you doing? I'm alright babe, how are you? Vulnerable. Oh, vulnerable. Hello darling, how are you? How are you doing? I'm alright babe, how are you? Vulnerable.

Oh, vulnerable, what's that? Have you seen that Tiffany Haddish clip with Julianne Arancic on E! News and she goes, how are you? And she goes, I'm successful, how are you? And I was like, she's like, I woke up today. I'm within. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to really put that into my week. And now I've been feeling really good. But today I had to just, this is really silly. And I feel like everyone that's been through serious procedures of the medical incline, I'm sure I'm being a bit of a pussy.

But today I had to have a little assessment before my surgery this week and they couldn't find my veins in your arms or my hands. I've got very little veins and it's always an issue. And today they really couldn't and it was really early in the morning and they tried about five or six times and they had to keep putting the needle in and then they got anyway, either way I wept. And I thought if I can't do this, then how am I gonna get through this surgery and this recovery? And so I think I just, I feel like I let myself down a bit. I think I should have been a bit more of a grownup today.

It's only a needle. I was just a bit like, can everyone stop putting a needle in my hand? It really, really, really hurts. Yeah, can I take this and make it really depressing? When I lost my baby, George, back in 2010, I contracted septicemia afterwards because they hadn't delivered the placenta when he was born and it started to infect me. And so I got rushed to hospital about a week later

and you can imagine how I was feeling mentally and psychologically and it was awful and I had the same thing I had to have a bunch of tests you know blood tests because septicemia is blood poisoning and for some reason they decided to let a student nurse, who had never done it before, like practice on me. And because I was feeling like so numb, not because you know, like physically numb but emotionally numb, this woman, and it must have been like 20 times that she tried in my arm, it was like, it was just utterly outraised. It was one of the, it was like the catheter things that they put in the back of your hand as well.

Hanging out of your body. Yeah, it was like excruciating and I just was not in a position to be like can you get someone that knows what they're doing, please because I just couldn't you know advocate for myself at that particular point in time, but I know what that's like. It's absolutely brutal. I hate needles as well. It is grim. But you must be feeling so nervous about your surgery. I'm so sorry that you have to go through that.

And I wish that I was there because I'd come with you and hold your hand and I'd be there for you when you came out. Thanks. I'm there with you in spirit, okay? I feel really embarrassed that I'm there with you in spirit. Okay. I feel really embarrassed that I'm this scared because, because I know what other people go through. Um, and I know what you've been through. I knew I, um,

assumed you would talk about George because it's the one of the most physically horrific things I remember happening to you, that process. And I'm like, people have operations all the time. I just feel really vulnerable that it would be nice to lie down for five days. I'm looking forward to the five days in hospital. Do you think they'll give you some morphine afterwards? That would be nice. I don't like hospital drugs. But yeah, having a little lie down and just yeah, that's not it. I then have to recover and stay still for weeks so I don't know how I'm gonna do this but I think it'd be really good for me really

really good for me and also just be good to get you know get this stuff dealt with and come out the other side get the fuckers out yeah yeah and actually it's made me talk about some other things that I want to do on the other side with my fertility and stuff. So I feel a bit like, oh, okay, we're kind of going through something to get to a very different place. And then you've got, you've got mommy next week.

Oh, your mommy, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I do, yeah. I'm excited about that. So actually thank you for doing that. That's support enough. Doing Miss Me with my mother. That's really nice of you to do that. I can't think of anyone else I'd rather do it with,

to be honest. I need your mom at the moment. I was gonna say, actually, now that we're both feeling a bit vulnerable, it might be nice to have Auntie Energy. I did wake up today to snow. What? Snowing in London?

Snowing in London. It didn't even feel like snow. It was like snow. Really white clouds of snow. I mean, I live somewhere where it looks very beautiful when it lands. But oh my God, I was like, Zeddie, this is snow. Didn't give a shit. Does not care. But it felt like a very like, okay, the world's gonna like, I don't know, comfort us all. I think we can just start having Christmas now, Lily. I think that's what we can do. You know what Ethel said to me yesterday?

Please, can we just have Christmas tree now? I was like, no, because it will die before it even gets to mid December. No, my bikini waxer got hers last week. Yeah, I don't care. Is it a fresh tree or is it an artificial tree? Oh, I don't know. I guess if you go early... Because an artificial tree is fine, obviously. It doesn't die. But if you go early and you've got central heating, it will dry out and the needles will drop and it's a nightmare.

And I have a puppy. And also I'd just like to talk about the puppy and the puppy training for a minute because I'm getting up at 5 a.m. at the moment to take this little fucker outside to go and eliminate. No, no, no. You said to me when I got Zeddi and I said, this is hard. You're like, Magita, please, it's not a baby. It's a puppy. As a mother, is it just as bad? Is it harder? No, it's just, it's just frustrating because I've been away for two weeks and obviously my mom's been staying here and my two kids and they've been absolutely fucking useless at keeping up with the training. So the dog is like, you know, confused about what he is meant

to be doing with his life. Well, with his ass, particularly. And so I'm getting up. Yesterday, I was so happy because I got up at five in the morning and I took him out and he did a poo and I was like so proud of him. And then we came in and he did pee on the carpet, which was a bit annoying, but you know, I can give him the poo. I'm happy with him about the poo. So this morning I got up again and I was like, come on, let's go out.

And it's like a whole routine because also I have a cat which needs to be fed first thing. And you know, Jude really likes Priscilla's cat food. So it's just this whole like sort of negotiating, like I've got to get the cat fed before I let him out of the crate. I've got to get the cat fed before I let him out of the crate. I've got to get the door open so that he doesn't pee just as I open the crate. And then I have to get outside and sit in the cold with him for 10-15 minutes to wait for him for poo.

And he didn't poo this morning. And that's before you've even dealt with your kids. That's just the early morning bit, right? Yeah, I get them up at 6.30, so I have like an hour and a half of like this whole like pet situation before I've even started with the kids. And then there's a whole scrambled egg scenario that we have to go through, and that's, I don't know.

Yeah, yeah. Life, right, life. But yeah, that's been my for the last couple of days. But you know, I'm gonna get there with this doggy, it's gonna be fine We're gonna figure it out. Yeah, I think it's um, I think it's just about getting on with it That's why I'm saying can we just have Christmas now? But anyway, I heard some Christmas music But I don't really see this as Christmas music because I listen to it all year long

But if I hear any elephants Gerald or Louis Armstrong if that starts coming through but then I listen to it all year long. But if I hear any Ella Fitzgerald or Louis Armstrong, if that starts coming through, but then I listen to Jazz FM every night. So it's Christmas every day in my house, really. It's not enough music in my house at the moment. Our Sonos is broken in the kitchen, so I don't have any music. It's quite annoying. I think I have to get one of those little mini speakers

or I could just get the Sonos guys to come around and fix it. Probably I should do that. There's been a Sonos outage, you know. Wow. I just thought it was just another part of my life that was failing. That I had to fix. It's not my fault.

An app failure, you know. If your business is built on an app and then the app fails, just even for, even for a minute, look what happens when WhatsApp goes down, people lose their shit. Like not even like, oh, I don't have what it's like, this can't happen. On the flip side, look at Elon Musk though, because that app is an utter failure. It seems to be working out quite well for him financially. So yeah.

I don't think people really use that app anymore. I mean, porn bots do. By the way, I thought that was, I listened back to our Listen Bitch last week and it did make me chuckle on the subway when I said that my guilty pleasure was watching gang bangs on. Oh, that was good. I was like, God, I'm funny sometimes. I am actually funny.

Now you just told us about your actual morning routine. There's absolutely no time, there's just no time for a YouTube gangbang sesh. You've got fat feet. So now we know that was a lie. That was a lie. Kids out the door. Anyway, gangbang. So you see, I'm trying to drag you into giving a shit about what possibly might be Christmas

number one and you don't care and no one does. Oh god, I really couldn't give a shit. Well actually, I realized when I stopped when I last gave a shit was Leona Lewis, a moment like this. For a moment like that. I think she was treated, can I just say, Leona Lewis wasn't treated well by that camp. And I feel like Simon Cowell discarded Leona Lewis after she was his little princess. She could have been a star for a lot longer.

Bleeding Love is probably one of my favorites all the time. But that's how you come, I mean, that's almost why X Factor and reality television, music television of that kind was of such a high level because the tunes were good. You know I'm gonna sing it, don't you? Can you hear it in my head? Give, give, give, give it a little love. I was thinking you'd come in from verse. I was thinking I'd be more interested in you coming from verse

Okay, but what is the actual words? Oh my god closed up in Didn't mean Once or twice was enough, but it was all in vain I don't know what it's about calling home. Wait, we can't make this karaoke. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Sorry, I didn't realize your eyes were closed. I realized you were that deep in it, so. You love it when I go there. I wasn't fair. No, I do. That's what I mean.

I'm sorry to have cut you off and made you transition into that space. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. You could really sing that song because your voice is quite good at going high to those notes. No, I cannot sing like Leona Lewis. Let's not fuck around. As well. You know, it's would have been on X Factor. Louis Walsh. He stated so much. What I'm saying is at the time when X Factor was on that create that took over

what Christmas number one was. That's the only thing that was it was whoever released their X Factor song. And there was some choose, I mean, there was some really shit stuff, but like Alexandra Burke and Beyonce singing at Christmas on TV on Saturday night, that was exciting television. Unifying. I remember being like,

that was like the early days of Twitter for me. I remember being, watching X Factor and then like live tweeting with people, everyone like, you know, just sort of chiming in with each other. Yeah, you would be responding. That was like the fun days of social media when we would all react to things together like live TV. Yeah.

Doesn't happen anymore. Doesn't happen anymore. Can I just say that there's someone called Ladbaby. Do you know who that is? Ladbaby. He has been Christmas number one for the last five years or something. So I think that shows how much it's just.

Here, in England or in America. In the great United Kingdom. I have no idea who Ladbaby is. Some fucker called Ladbaby has been Christmas number one five years in a row. And that's how important is now. I had a Christmas song I had a Christmas song. I don't think it was it was number one for four weeks but then I think I think Mariah Carey or someone

else came along and you know did her thing. That, so nearly Christmas number one. Not really because I don't care. But... It would be irritating if I gave an iota of a shit, but I don't. Alright, riddle me this Scrooge. Was it nice to have a song that's about everywhere at Christmas time? No, because I sort of feel like I've been defined by that song and it's not my song and I didn't write it. So it irritates me. I don't feel like that song defines you at all. I feel like it's nice that it brings people joy and that people connect to it and it makes

people feel something. That's good. I like to have an effect like that. It's interesting how it came about though because I obviously, you know, loved John Lewis but it was never on my like bucket list of things to do to be on the Christmas advert and they pitched it, right? So my management company came to me and said they have got a bunch of people to pitch and it's unlikely that you'll get it but can you do it and I was like I really don't want to do it I really don't want to do it and and it was just as Jesus my album was going to come out my album was going to come out I think in like March or April and I was very concerned because I was like if this comes out it's going to confuse the audience in terms of, you know, what I've got to say on my record.

And they threatened me. They said, you know, if you don't do this, it's basically like free promo. John Lewis pay for everything. They pay for all of the promotion and blah, blah, blah, blah. And if you don't do it, morale will be low in the marketing department when it comes to your album. So I was very pressured into it. But I also thought, you know, they were like Annie Lennox is doing it, a bunch of other people are doing it,

and it's very unlikely that you'll get it. So I was like, okay, fine. So I just went to the studio. And when you say, can I just ask, when you say pitch, do you mean as an artist, you say to John Lewis, I'm gonna lay something down and do a cover of something,

or was it already down to be that song? No, no, no, no, no, no. They had chosen the song. It was that song. And then they had got like, you know, 20 artists or something to record a version of it. And then they chose the one that they felt went best with their, with the animation, which was the bear and the hare video. Yeah. And I sort of, you know, literally spent like 45 minutes doing it, that they felt went best with their, with the animation, which was the bear and the hare video. And I sort of, you know, literally spent like 45 minutes doing it, just chucked it out.

And then they were like, yeah, you got it. And I was like, great. For fuck's sake. Wow. How much money do I get? Oh, nothing. Great, great. No, thanks.

Oh yeah, of course. It don't get paid. Me and Keen have made a fucking killing on that. Oh my god, actually that is really multi-layered because you cover their song to make it a hit again in a new way but get nothing because they wrote it. Fuck, shit, bollocks. And I love Keen, you know I love Keen and I love them and I don't begrudge them because they wrote a great song but I do think that it like damaged my brand somewhat and I kind of resent it. Well now I know how much you were pushed into

it. I hate saying that because I'm such a negative Nellie all the time but I I love it and I hate it. And I also, it's one of those things that when I play live, people really expect me to play it. And it's like, I don't even know where it fits into a slot. I don't even feel like it's part of your repertoire, honestly, when you said, I feel like it defines me, Lily, I've never thought like that.

I think not many people would. But anyway, one thing I wanted to say is as well, it's a bit like Martha in it in the documentary,, when we both said the one time she made a decision that wasn't hers, and I know you've had more than one, but it's like the reason it has a bad taste in your mouth is not the song, not Keane, not making it about it's because it wasn't your fucking decision. Yeah. So it just leaves a bad taste. It's like I fucking knew it. You do know what's best for you as an artist usually I imagine So I'm sure they just stand out at the moments that you weren't in charge of that

About your next move because that's always when you have thrived because you know who you are Yeah, and it was weird because I think like hard out here came out like a couple of weeks later And everyone was like, yeah, what? She just did that really sweet Christmas song where she's a Santa angelic and now she's talking about it if they anyway, it was confusing and I was right and Yeah, and everyone should listen to me forever because I am clever and they are dumb. Okay. Thank you Luckily, you've got hit podcasts now where everyone as you see you just bang on about anything you want and people will listen It all worked out in the end But I think they are re-releasing Band-Aid Live Aid. They've done a kind of mishmash of all three, haven't they? That they've

ever done. Yeah, I heard that's been caught up in a whole thing of controversy, not conspiracy. Ed Sheeran has agreed with Fuse ODG in saying that Band-Aid is perpetuating damaging and harmful stereotypes about Africa that aren't true. Yes, this is what I'm saying. Okay, so Fuse ODG quite rightly said this consistent, dangerous narrative of Africa being sort of deprived, poverty stricken, weak, is damaging. Also, it's quite strange, I suppose, to have that kind of narrative when Africa couldn't be more powerful or more, I think for the first time, definitely in my lifetime, Africa has stepped into its strength.

Seemed more prosperous. And influence. Fuck yeah. Absolutely. Through food and culture and music, I mean everything. Even something like Afrobeat or Burnable or someone like that is the power he has in the world. That just wouldn't have been something when we were younger.

Maybe possibly a Caribbean artist, but not an African artist in this way. It feels like Africa can speak for itself. Yeah, I agree. I think that like what Damon Albarn does, the whole Africa Express thing is a much more sort of celebratory way of approaching, you know, trying to help communities rather than using other people's suffering to raise your own profile, I guess. That's what Band-Aid feels a little bit like to me. Yeah, it's difficult because of course so much money has been made over the years. Has it? Yeah, I think they made 140 million. So that's quite a lot. 140 million since when? 1984.

Yeah. So that's 40 years. So what is 140 million divided by 40? Oh, Lily. We cannot... No, but in all seriousness, what is that? 140 million divided by 40 equals... That's 3.5 million a year.

Yeah. I don't know if that is a lot actually for Bob Geldof to have ridden on for that long. Centuries. Feel like Bob Geldof's probably made more than 3.5 million a year. Let's go to a break. Yeah, let's go to a break, darling. Should we go to a break?

Let's do it. Yeah. Unless there's anything else you suddenly wanna say to me. One more thing about Ed Sheeran that you've got for me. Oh, you know what? There is quite a funny story that I have about Ed Sheeran. When I wrote It's Not Me, It's You, my second album, which was very successful and some of my best work, I believe,

I was writing it with Greg Kirsten. And at the end of every session session we would burn my CDs off so that I could listen to them in the car and Ed Sheeran was not very well known at the time, but he was sort of like up-and-coming and You know when CDs came out of the you know CD making machine we would write on them And I would put on them Ed Sheeran demos in the thought that like nobody would be interested in listening to that. Wait a minute!

Well because like if I lost the CD and it said like Lily Allen demos, I was like worried that it would get leaked. So I would put Ed Sheeran demos on my demos thinking no one would be interested. So what you found in 2013 would have probably made you a multi multi-millionaire if anyone found that. Yeah, isn't that funny? I remember when he first came out because I was going out with Luke and he and Luke played me to him as like a someone that was singing on like, you know, like the British, you know, UK hip hop scene. That's it. And Ed Sheeran was like, singing a lot with all those boys and I loved his voice. I was like, who is that kid that

was on that other bit? It's lovely watching Ed Sheeran grow into a stratospheric superstar. Like, especially when you watch the documentary and you realise that, you tell me actually, artist, is it, is it impressive to do all of that just on your own with like no bands, like you and a guitar and like a pedal? Yeah, I mean it's undeniably impressive. I mean I think his success is really impressive. I don't really love his music. I think his music is really catchy, but I don't love the lyrics of his songs.

I don't feel any connection to them really. I'm in love with the shape of you. Never like that. Nope. Nope. Come on. I don't like that, but you have to say, thinking out loud is a beautiful song.

God, I'm such a cheesy bitch. Yeah, look at you coming for me for liking Keen and like your low key little Ed Sheeran freak. Okay, let's go to a break. So, Miki, go and listen to I'm in love with the shape of you. Thinking out loud. Welcome back to Miss Me. You know, we were talking about Africa and then we were going to talk about the fight and I've got a link. Boxing in the Middle Ages, boxing first occurred as an act between two people with their hands wrapped. We found imagery

in some way to have a fight to the probably the death in those days, the middle ages in Ethiopia. So they go. I know right. And I was trying to think about why people, why the fuck would you be a boxer basically? It's just so hardcore. Like watching that fight with Mike Tyson and what's he called? John Paul. Sean Paul? Jake.

Jake Paul. I felt like, I just felt very, it was quite sad the whole time. Felt like all the reasons that you might have become a boxer in the first place was sort of, what, heavy, weighty on his older shoulders or something. Did you see it? I did. I watched about, I think I watched the first two rounds and then I was like,

actually can't watch this. What, what, which bit made you feel sad or it was weird? I mean, it's, it's a weird feeling because like, you know, I felt sorry for Mike Tyson, but then also he's like a convicted rapist. So I should probably have enjoyed watching him get pummelled by some idiot YouTuber, but I didn't really. It felt weird. It felt like a weird spectacle. What was weird about the coverage was just everyone on it seeming to be pitching their own ideas for to Netflix the whole time. Like there was like Shaquille O'Neal and some guy that were like, yeah, thanks Netflix for having us here. This is just so great.

We've got our own ideas. We're going to fight each other. And then it would be like the pundits like going like, how can we make some money out of Netflix stuff and fighting each other? It was just like, what world are we living in where it's just like, let's just make something up. Yeah, we can live stream. At this point, anything we'll do.

It just seemed so bizarre. It was just like, since when have we started like live pitching, like on TV? I suppose everyone just wants to be have a bigger idea, a better idea and be more powerful and make more money than the other one. Right. Well, I think everyone was just like in that room just being like, what the fuck are we actually doing here? Why are we here watching a 27 year old, you know, fight us? What was he 58? 58 year old. And so ultimately, everyone's like, yeah, well, we're here because it's making people extreme amounts of money. How can I make extreme amounts of money out of something so ludicrous?

Like, who could I fight? Should we do a fight? Netflix? I could fight you, yeah, I could fight you. All right, let's do it. It's actually kind of ridiculous after a while. It's like you, me, like Alexa Chung and Rita Ora. Let's get in the ring.

Stop, because that would be so popular. I know. Because there was celebrity death match when we were kids, wasn't there? Yeah. And I hated it, but it was like kind of plasticine people. But I don't think we're that far off putting hard done by famous people in a ring to beat the shit out of each other. And I hated it, but it was like kind of plasticine people, but I don't think we're that far off putting

Hard done by famous people in a ring to beat the shit out of each other I don't think we're far from that tool like celebrity kids. I'd like to see like Northwest go up against Shiloh pit Can you imagine that would be to beat this to beat each other up? Yeah No, really, but I do think that if we decided to kick the shit out of each other at Miss Me Live, people might be into it. That would be funny. Maybe we should just get those like sumo suits and do that instead.

That was a real craze at one point, wasn't it? Where people would hire those suits and just like, yeah, let's do those. If we could make it highbrow, I'm interested. I don't know how you make that highbrow at all, but we can try. Maybe we just do it for the Christmas party. I'll bring them to the karaoke section.

I think we'll end it there. Yeah, there we go. There we go, there we go. Well, no, but truly thank you for taking the reins of Miss Me and because I really, that's what I need more than anything for you to look after this situation while I go into this situation. So thank you.

Oh shit. Yeah, I forgot. I'm really taking the wings. Do you even know that you're doing this for me? No, I do. But I've just realized like I have, I probably have to like actually come up with the stuff that we're going to talk about because I can't really leave it to your mom, can I? That's a lot of responsibility for her.

She's already taking on quite a lot of responsibility for her. She's already taking on quite a lot of responsibility. Maybe- The great thing is, is that she's broadcaster, so it's gonna be fucking great. That's great, that's true. You actually can lean on her as an auntie, as a co-host, as a friend, and as most things, you can actually lean on her.

I think I'm just gonna ask her recipes. That's such a good idea. You should just do menu chat for an entire episode. Yeah I think we'll talk about the honey baked chicken. And then maybe bring in some Tupperware chat. Oh my god yeah we can talk about Tupperware food storage. Because you two know how to have a good time together let's be honest. We do. What we'll probably end up talking about is you. Yeah, that's fine, but can you remember that it's a public space that you're talking about me in? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't you worry.

Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, sure. I got you, babe. I got you. I got you. You'll be able to listen to the edit when you're in your morphine haze in hospital. You know, when I last had my, I had an operation and I was in hospital, they put me on morphine for like four days. And I just, I remember like, I'm addicted to my phone and my phone was next to the bed.

And I just remember like being in bed and not, the TV wasn't even on. And I just look at my phone and be like Yeah, too far away and just stare at the wall and just nod out for like four days So actually all that sleep I didn't do anything I didn't talk to anyone and I just I was like I just I'll just look at this wall Yeah I'm down to do a bit of wall staring absolutely because when I get back I'm in recovery but I'm working I had like a pile of books I was like they look too heavy I'm just gonna stare at this wall yeah so uh for diagnosis

you need more sleep uh they've I've been prescribed an operation to put me in hospital for five days just to get that much needed rest. Fine, I'll take it. I will stare at the wall and I will snooze, Lil. I will snooze. Are you going to come visit me in hospital? No, you're in New York again. I'm back next Wednesday, so I could come pick you up. Oh yeah, that would be nice. I could come pick you up. Would you come pick me up? Come pick you up, yeah.

Come pick me up from me up, okay. Alrighty, okay, love you to see you my darling, and oh my god Lil, it's potatoes, so listen bitch, come on, what a party. Potatoes, it's a political hot potato. What the? Sorry, that's just quite a classic from our... It's a political hot potato. Family repertoire.

Okay, love you. I love you too. I really do love you. And I would love you to pick me up. So I will see you then. Love you babe. I'll chat to you later. Bye.

Bye honey. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. This is a Persephoneca production for BBC Sounds. Let's take a journey back to 2003. Canadian teen sensation Avril Lavigne was topping the charts and turning the music industry upside down. But what if I told you that the Avril Lavigne we know and love might not be the same Avril? What? Did Avril die? Was she replaced by a doppelganger?

I'm Joanne McNally and I'm doing a deep dive into a notorious internet conspiracy. Who replaced Avril Lavigne? Listen on BBC Sounds.