Miss Me? - Putting Awards in Their Place

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss the BRIT Awards, the BAFTAs and Lily’s West End Girl is on tour.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. This is not the future we were promised. Like, how about that for a tagline for the show? From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work and your politics, your everyday life.

And all the bizarre ways people are using. the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. The next episode contains strong language, adult themes and reference to a vulture-fueled entertainment industry. Welcome to Miss Me. Welcome to Bloody Miss Me, for God's sake. What?

What a week? Yeah. I don't know where such weeks. We could do World War III or the Brits. Where do you, what do you on us? What feels right for you? The best part about it was that they happened at the same. same time.

Yeah, no, no shit. That was the real articulation of life. It was like sending bombs into a volatile country or... Red carpet in Manchester. Noel Gallagher accepting Songwriters of the year. Absolutely. Explosive all round. There's no middle ground.

No, I truly, on Saturday, when the information about what was going on around the world started feeding in, I think I was a little bit. overwhelmed by fear, actually. I was with Phoebe. And I think it was because we were babysitting Lily's kids. And suddenly I felt like this world is a volatile place. And I don't know how to protect myself or anyone that I love. That's how I felt it was a bit existential.

Can you see why I didn't want to come back to the West now? Yeah, you had a point. You had a point. A heady weekend. Can I just say at the Brit Awards, 2026, you looked fly. Thank you. Wow. Thank you.

I'm so proud of you sort of sartorially. Really? I find that quite funny because I really wasn't taking it that seriously. Really? That look, it was effortless. Wow. Okay. It was sort of, how do we describe the hat?

It's sort of like a Russian... Yeah, it's like a black hat. I had two black and white, actually. I will slippers to the after party. It was somewhat Anna Karenina meets like... Never seen it already. It was a warm, big black hat. Hunter hat.

I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I should take this moment to remind people. Like, I literally, I don't... I've not had a stylist. for like 10 years. Yes, people definitely need to know. People can sleep at night now.

You told them. No, because like sometimes when you go through these things, like people think that there's, and obviously with Jade, I mean, Jade was in like custom, like off Whitehead made her a custom look and she looked incredible. Yeah, it made it, right?

Right. But I just feel like maybe, because someone said that the other day, they said, or my manager told me that people asked her who my stylist was. And I just think like, maybe that's a flex. You had to be like, ah, saw me. Yeah, I just go into,

I go into, like, Labram, who made the suit. I went in and said, saw an eater, said, oh, that one looks cool. And then everything else I did myself. I had my own tie, my hat. Obviously, put a little book in my pocket, socks that my dad got Jade, actually, for Christmas. I stole them. Put it all together. It was fly.

It was fly. It was fly. It was really nice, actually. I love when you two do this, when you do say, like, we're here doing this, but it is also a date night for us. And you just both look really fly and sexy. And I was like, I love my friends. They look so good, didn't I?

I was proud of everyone. I will say it is really important to look fantastic for something that's like utterly meaningless, you know what I mean? Yeah, to give it meaning. Otherwise you're just in a cold arena in Manchester. Although, I have to say, I feel like I was quite, was I negative about the BAFTAs? Like all week I was freaked out that Alan Cumming

was going to be like, well... Were you negative about the BAFTAs? You were obsessed with the BAFTAs. Yeah, but I was a bit negative about the writing. Oh, yeah, the presenting you said was rubbish, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I was a bit like, God, I don't want Alan coming to be like, actually, fuck you, McKee, or Oliver, because I really respect him and like him.

Well, it would be his writing team, but yeah. I hope it was clear that it was the writing team. They can hate me. Sorry, writing team. Okay, so look, my thing is we've had some feedback from the last episode when we spoke about Bafter's. And I want to be clear that I was in Canada when that happened. So I woke up, I hadn't seen the Bafters.

And I don't think you, Keats had, I don't know if you'd seen all of all of it. for BAFTAs. I don't know what... Yeah, I'd seen it, but I hadn't seen the furor around it. It was like for people who maybe thought that we had chosen not to specifically address that or that it had been taken out, it was actually, unfortunately, a little bit more boring, which is that it was just too recent. And yeah, like if literally if the podcast had been recorded even six hours later, seven hours later, maybe we would have had more of a grasp on it. My position on it, which I've since spoken about, is that I feel like let down

by the BBC. Should we say specifically what we're talking about at the BAFTAs? Yeah, like the inclusion of the N word Del Wily and Doe Michael B. Jordan

having to hear that obviously on account of someone who has, well ironically had just received an award for a film about Tourette's, which is an incredibly difficult

condition to live with. I've known that from knowing people with Tourette's. It's really tough. And so it was just for me the stand-up thing was that that word

was included for everyone to hear and to experience. They weren't tended to, as in Del O'RyLindo, Michael B. Jordan, I would have loved for there to have perhaps been some kind of restorative situation between John Davidson and Michael Bidjordin and Del Wollindo. But that word was left in. Free Palestine was taken out later on by Achanola Davis Jr., which doesn't make sense to me because he is not a member of BBC staff. He hasn't had to engage of impartiality.

And I don't think that taking that phrase out is impartial. I completely agree with you. And obviously, you know that I know Akin and I think the words that he said on one of the biggest nights of his life, he would have been very considered and done a lot of thinking about what he wanted to say on that stage in that moment in his life if he did win that award. And to take any words away from him, I think is something that should really be thought about. Definitely. It was, it's all been very disappointing. Yeah. And I feel like actually the reason perhaps.

That's why there's been so many messages, is because we're two black people who are on something to do with the BBC. And I want to be very clear in the fact that I feel like it is quite, it is actually quite triggering because it's not the first time this has happened on the BBC. It happened on the news a few years ago. I didn't know that Alan Cumming posted something.

He posted on Instagram and he said, let's actually quote him. He said, what should have been an evening celebrating creativity as well as diversity and inclusion turned into a trauma-triggering shit show? Okay, Alan, yes, Alan. Say it. You know, I have my own personal relationship with that word, which is very different. So I can't speak for how it affected anyone else. But like, it's just just that you just don't feel protected.

Don't feel cared for, no duty of care. And if there has been, then it should be more public. Yeah, and we don't know everything that was done behind the scenes. And if there actually was a duty of care to the people in the room at the heart of this, because the BBC has apologised several times. So is Bafter. But I think what it did is it sparked. a wider acknowledgement of just how deeply harmful that word is.

Exactly. And if this is cut, we'll feel even worse about it. Yeah. But the Brits, I have to say I was all there ready to fucking hate it, ready to hate every part of it, ready to be disappointed. I thought Jack Whitehall was funnier this year. I thought he was, I laughed a few times. I thought he was funny. Because of the sketches or because of the...

Not the fucking sketches. Absolutely. not. Stuff that he said in links on set within the night. Oh, they're kind of self-deprecating Brit Awards vibe. Yeah, always works. Maybe it wasn't bad. Like this is all a bit silly vibes.

No, he was sort of using big words. I liked that. I thought it was good last year. Did I watch? Oh, yeah, Jade won last year. I like it when he's at the tables. No, that's what I can't stand. Children, that's where I can't stand.

I think we're opposite on a lot of these points, though, just from hearing you guys before I jump on the court. I think I generally perceived it differently. Well, this is interesting. How did you perceive the Brit Awards? But then again, to be fair, I will say, obviously, with Jack, I didn't actually see all of his links, though. I could only hear a certain amount of stuff.

Yes. So as a viewer watching on telly, because basically what was meant to happen was Lily was meant to go, and that's why I was babysitting Ethel Amani at Mills. And Phoebe came. So it was really nice. We were having a little sleepover under the blankets, and then Lily just fucking walked in the door.

I was like, why aren't you on your way to Manchester? But for whatever reason, she decided not to go, And we all got under the covers and watched it. So in a way, it's quite good that she didn't win because I think it would have been slightly surreal if she won album of the year while we were sitting on the sofa under a blanket. She should have won.

I do think she should have won an album of the year. It's lovely to give. I understand the industry and they wanted to give Olivia Dean that clean sweep, of course. They like to do that. I don't understand that. I think it's silly. She should have won album of the year.

Olivia would have been fine with three awards. It's fine. She would have been happy with it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because the thing is Olivia is a brilliant new artist, something she won. Best New Artist, at the Grammys, for fuck's sake.

But then here, definitely everything she wins was winning and makes sense. It's the styling, Simone's amazing styling. It's Olivia. She's so beautiful and talented and brilliant. Yeah, some, some. Oh, does she not do that herself? I'm going to get a stylist sometime. Soon I'm going to get a stylist.

It's going to be sick. Can't wait. Okay. But then with Lily, I think we have to talk about an album reaching everyone and hit hard. It's a cultural reset. That's a culture. I read that. That's what I mean.

Like if it's a cultural reset, you give them the award. Also, it would have been so cool because Lily would have gone up there, accepted it. It shows, it pushes against the idea of like the length of time a pop star has. That would have been dope. Also, she would have been able to do some shit with Mark, probably for his fucking performance. There have been loads of cool shit she could have done. So it annoys me. But also, I don't even know why Lily didn't go.

Maybe that's not the reason. I don't think it was that deep. She just didn't go. I saw some bullshit in the paper saying it's because of her longstanding. with Nicole Appleton. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Was she there? Exactly.

My voice, exactly. One more thing I'd like to stress is I did think the set design and art direction was also better than usual. Like, better than ever, I would say. Obviously, I was banging on about Rosalia being brilliant. And it was, it was, you know, if we're saying that some of the performances were referencing club culture, Harry Stiles, and Rosalia, I would say that I think Harry's problem is that, you know, Harry became famous.

No, no. No, no. Stay with me. Because I did not, I just never believe him. And it's not his fault. I realize what the problem is. It's not his fault. It's because he was working in a bakery, then he got famous at 16.

So he had no experience of. He does have experience. No, no, not in club culture. He has not been out, raving and had time to be dirty and messy. and messy and live it. You have no, this is a thing, right? I do know that he hasn't done that. I swear to like, this is, this is proximity bias.

I promise you. Unable to detach themselves from the memory of a young Harry Stiles. I live through the same issue with people, right? He has lived a life that you don't know about. He didn't even do anything for art. No, no, no, listen. He didn't even for an entire, no, Mikita, I don't care about like taking him to a fucking art gallery

with Kate Moss in like 2014. I'm not talking about that. He didn't even do anything. anything for an entire year. He wasn't even around. You don't know what he did. That's what it looks like. It looks like he recently has experienced some sort of club culture. But that's all the same as living it in your youth and being messy and being anonymous. Being anonymous. When did Rosalia live in German opera? She's been to Berkine. She's been to Bergen. No, no, no, no. Not Berguine. No, no. Okay, firstly, you have no idea if Rosalie's been to Bergen. And secondly, I believe it.

I feel it in my soul. No, because you don't live where Rosalie O'Leod first became famous. We don't even understand what she was singing about when she was a pop star. I know she was on a talent show as well. There is that. Interesting, that, isn't it? And we didn't see that because we weren't living in the Latin space where she was existing in prior to coming over to the UK and reinventing herself.

If no one knew who Harry Stiles was, and that was the first performance, why are you questioning whether or not you went to a fucking club? Just listen to the song. Because I don't believe him and I believe her, so I wonder why that is. No, no, I wonder why that, if it's not the reason I think, I wonder why that is. Do you know, I loved Harry's performance, right? Yeah, you tell me. Because.

Come on, then. And I mean this. When I was away, obviously, in Canada, I saw Jade perform in, like, twice. And I genuinely, in my heart of hearts, don't think there's a better all-round performer than Jade in the UK. And I mean this, and I mean this, and I'm not even trying to say this is some lov-dive-dovey bullshit. I swear to fuck I'm not, right? I mean this as objectively as possible. Not everyone's going to love pop, right?

And there are people who have like swagger and a band and whatever else. Like, you know, Fontaine's, for example, Grian is an incredible frontman, right? But Jade does full choreo, full live vocal, she does full stage design. She looks like the amount she puts into a live show is like, for me personally, I have to respect it. I have to go like, whoa, that is incredible, right? When I look at men, especially men who are like pop adjacent, right? It is fucking barren. I mean this.

that we've gone through five, six years and I have to be careful about there's a lot of people and my friends who obviously perform in this world but it's like, okay, I feel like storms these glasses and be was kind of cool

I know AJ Tracy's putting some effort when he did glass dough and stuff like that there are certain guys who will push little bits I love Ezra Collective and they perform but that's kind of like the whole group experience but it's like just seeing

a solo artist, male artist on stage doing any kind of dance routine while singing with a dope upset with a choir, with such as energy, with performance and like he's doing these little moves. Like, that's my, I want that. Like, I need people. I need artists to get it. Popper Jason, pop adjacent artist, yeah. Oh, I have a proper Jason artist for you that I was feeling.

Who does dance routines? No. Right. So I'm trying to say, no. I was talking, I was going to say that somber guy. He's great. Oh, come on. What getting pushed over on stage. Wow. What a plot twist. I love that guy. You love that guy because you don't know about him. This is the thing. If Harry had mystery, he doesn't have that in the UK. Jordan, he's just coming to work. Oh my God. And that's okay.

And you know what? I actually think Rosalia brought it into perspective. If it was just Harry's performance, fine. But it was like, nah, this is brutal, but gentle. And I just, the other, it just felt dead out. I'm not trying to be mean to Harry Stiles. Rosalia was phenomenal. Let's not get this twisted.

Rosalia is a genius. Right. Like she actually composes this music. Like she really is in the studio studying music. And, and me, I heard a Motomami wherever and thought she was just some any pop star, right? And then now I'm like, yo, I don't know her history with German opera. I do understand that Bjork coming out is, I stood up. I just stood up automatically. I don't even know why I stood up. I just stood up. Like, I was like, whoa. But for me, like my journey with like, let's say music or rhythm or like movement. has developed throughout my life. And actually, oddly, my relationship to techno or club or that kind of rhythm, that repetitive, that energy has come out in me since becoming sober. Like this is one of these bizarre things that since I stopped drinking. Yes, I remember you on New Year's Eve.

I remember thinking. Yes, since I stopped drinking. And since I stopped, I actually want to engage with that club culture more because the music brings me a sense of escape. And for me, I see that in Harry. My point is, I can understand why a person can be taken into a place of connection to that style of music without trying to be anything.

Like, dancing isn't owned by anybody. If anyone wants to fucking dance, they can dance. Rosalie have felt like dirty and real and Harry's just felt a bit like shit cold play. Like, can't we just leave it at that. Shit cold play. I'm sorry. Have you ever seen Chris Martin dance?

I'm sorry. Let's talk about Alex Warren. Who fuck is that guy? I thought he was Welsh till that night. Me too. I was like, this guy's American? It just sounds like it's on some

fucking St George Flagg football advert. And then I was like, this man is American. America. It's because he's called Alex Warren. He sounds like he's in everybody's class at school. It's the song though as well. Anyway, apparently it's like the biggest,

what did you like? Why, also the biggest song of the year? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ordinary is massive. Ordinary. I was like, who is this guy? And then nicely, nicely, nicely, nicely. They stuck grind rap, hip-pop and R&B in the round-up for the TV.

They just stuck it in the round-up. They put all the black adjacent awards in the break. I was like, okay, that's good. Yes. And not only did they do that, they also gave them to just random people. We're not random people. Well, Dave deserved it, but wasn't there. No, but deserved it.

This wasn't thought through. They were like, let's just chuck it at Dave. People know who he is. But they're not thinking about it. I mean, that album is amazing, but that's not why he got it. Dave is one of the best artists of his generation. He just dropped an album. He should be there and he should be accepting the award.

I don't know what that is. Maybe they should have got him to perform. I don't know what it is. But like, this is what I said about the Baptist. This is what I'm saying. Is it like, for me, the performances at the Brits were brilliant in terms of like, there was something to see and admire and for me the highlights

for Rosalia and Harry, right? But then aside of that, it's all a bit messy in it because it's like there's some underdog stories and everyone's like, yay, you know, like I love that Olivia was so happy she really deserves it. All those stuff bits are amazing.

But ultimately there are other little bits of politics that just kind of like rear their head every now and again. Like sort of when the best R&B, sorry, is it a joke to me? Sorry. They did it? Did they?

Is that who won best R&B? Yes. And Sasha Key, Kew and K-1 was sat there. If you want to include salt and R&B, you're really opening up the doors of what's considered to be R&B. She's such a fucking amazing format. Cleo is incredible. Cleo's voice is incredible.

Again, two truths at the same time. Salt make incredible music. We love salt's music. It's just Sasha was there. K1 was there. Like they were at the awards. Yeah, but you can't give an award to someone just because they're there. Sure.

But the point was it meant more to them. So if anybody's interested about Sasha's career Sasha's career is if you want an underdog story, it's incredible. The biggest issue is she had to literally move to America in order to be heard as an RAB artist. It bugs me out. It was a great night. Did you go see off parties?

Yeah, I went to one. Did you see Grimmie? Briefly, but... You didn't see Grimmy and Mish? I saw Mish outside the one I was at, but I just like Mark Ronson DJed. He was good. Yeah, I would have gone to see him.

That was sick. I saw Mark bantered with Groner. Noel Gallagher about Man City for a little bit. And then... Co-suited. Saw my mate hack. Yeah, and then went down, danced to Donnie Sunshine. And then went home?

Yeah, man. It was like, you know, I had to obviously like light a couple of Palosanto's when I got in, cleans the soul. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how you and the Brits. Totally. Light a few Fallow Sanders.

Clean's the soul. I wrote five things about Brits, actually. Let's hear your list. I'm actually shocked that you're not more surprised that I've actually been prepared once for Miss Me. That's what I'm thinking. I'm like, is this your research? Well, let's see what that looks like.

We've covered three. Okay. The Vate ones. Let me see if I can guess which ones they were. Rosalia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've written, Rosalea and Harry Stiles are incredible. That was one.

Cool. Sort should have never won best R&B. That was this one. Wow, that was more niche. All the Black Awards in the break. We're so aligned, Jordan. Free Palestine, censored again. You wouldn't know.

Oh, yeah. I was like, wait, was it? I was watching on TV. I wasn't sure as much as you're on television. I heard nothing. And also, bizarrely, Jacob Alon, who I adore, and I don't know if I've spoken about them on this podcast,

but I wrote a substack about them actually because they made a song called Ferry in a Bottle, and for some reason it would just make me cry every time I listened to it for a long time. Oh, Jay. And, you know, I'm quite jaded about the music industry, and Jacob reignited some kind of belief because they were found performing.

They literally were profound with no audience, no, whatever, and were actually signed based off of like pure talent and have just quietly built their audience. Like in the old days. And like in the old days. And now they won Critics' Choice. However, for some reason, this year, not Critics Choice.

They took that. Yeah, yeah. They didn't have any passing of the baton on at all. There was no highlighting. And again, it makes me feel disappointed. Jacob Allen should have been given critics' choice on stage. All right, let's go to a break. We've got us.

We have to cease this momentarily. This is not the future we were promised. How about that for a tagline for the show? From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing, too. your work and your politics, your everyday life.

And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, we're back. What are you saying, Kutes? We've got to talk about Lil. I'm so proud. I'm so proud. She's out there. She's started.

It's beautiful. It's a whole spectacle. I love that she's decided to take this moment to like just do West End Girl and just give people West End Girl. and just give people Western Girl, although we can say now, I've known for a while, but I couldn't say till the tour was out,

but she does have at the beginning an orchestra and they're playing smile and the fear and all of the classic old songs. So you kind of walk into that atmosphere and then you're in this Western Girl zone, which I love. And it really is like a play.

I think it's quite interesting that she did HEDA, because it's got quite Heder energy, the set up of it. And I think it's the lady who did Heder actually has done the set design. But I'm just sorry, brown of her, Jordan. I was obviously with her on Saturday and she was nervous, bit mad, bit crazy, bit like, what the fuck is going on? I'm actually going to go do this and she's just gone and she's doing it. God, that's so exciting. She's like deep in her first week. Wow.

It's kind of weird because of course no one thought West End Girl, including Lily, was going to like do what it did but never mind that she'd be back on the road in this way. This is insane. This tour is long and goes around the world. This is like a year and a half now. This is insane. Sold out everywhere. Like, what the fuck? Yeah, star. I'm very proud. She just texts me and said,

it's done. So I think she feels like she's in it now and she can just start to enjoy it. Are we going to go? You're going to go? Yeah. London? Yeah.

But yeah, it's happening and it feels very real. And I want her to, I really want her to enjoy it and take in all this love into her heart because it's not going to be easy. Singing that album every night is going to be quite a process for her. Oh, mate.

That is. fucking wild. Yo, I feel about that. But then, do you know what I was thinking, though? Yes, I think West End Girls stands out as one of the more emotionally messy guts out, you know, brave, courageous work. But there are a lot of artists that write about heartbreak

and then have to go around the world and fucking tour it and sing it every night. Yeah, that's one of them up. And then you're seeing it 10 years later sometimes. Have you seen the Billy Elish dock yet? No, I need to watch that. That happens. It's so fascinating because you have this incredibly, like, tortured and talented young woman

who and her and her brother are this like, which was wildly brilliant combination because he's so talented as well. But, you know, they have the whole family. They're in the family house. But anyway, sorry, I'm getting attracted. The reason I'm saying this is she cries a couple of times on tour because she's singing this particular song. And because the maddest is the juxtaposition of the whole doc is that during her assent into becoming like, I think literally the biggest pop star on the planet. at least for a short period of time. Quite, yes.

She has this fucking dead-ass boyfriend. Still with her on tour? Barely. Imagine how mad this is. She performs a Cicella. He doesn't even turn up to the show. He's just in Cicella with his mates. And the maddest thing about it is she is like,

you can feel her wanting him there. And you're watching this powerhouse of like fucking dope shit. And then there's this guy. And so there's these moments where like she's performing. And I think I remember what song it is. And she just cries. And I was like, whoa. Because you know that she's also dealing with the fact that like she's still being disappointed in her private life.

This is how I read it anyway. This isn't, this isn't. No, definitely. And I think there is something to be said for feeling adored by so many and not loved by one. One. I'm sorry. I don't know this guy personally. And it was a while ago since I watched documentary.

But I had this resounding memory of being like, brother, not only are you slipping just on a level because Billy is dope. But it's literally a documentary. Like this was the one time to be fake for like two years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is one time to just love her up. But they're filming it, bro. Jordan, not everyone can handle having a famous girlfriend. But you know what?

But you know what? That's actually really interesting for Lily because we could have been, which we were in, you know, this time last year, before the album was out, there was still, you know, there was still a lot of feelings about this breakup. Like, she's in a very new place.

She's in a very fresh place. And again, it probably makes it more. of a head fuck to have to sing about it every night. Like what's worse? Being in it still? No, but I think it's because I would just, I don't know. You'd obviously, you would have to check in with Lily in a week or two. But like, I can imagine there's a point at which it actually becomes catharsis because I'm reading a book at the moment about Buddhism,

which is just blowing my fucking mind. I love it so much. It's like the parallel between Buddhism and like black resistance. It's amazing. You know, one of the principles is to welcome suffering. You know what I mean? To engage with. that experience openly. So like if you were afraid of re-engaging with something, the more you do it,

essentially you go through it, you know? It's like... That's so weird. I'm doing that work too, Jordan. I'm doing... Didn't we speak about this? With the buffalo. Is that you? That sounds interesting. The buffalo. Like when there's a storm, oh, there's some prover where like, I think a buffalo runs towards Buffalo run towards storms, but cows run away. So because a buffalo, for some reason, understand that, like, once they get through that really painful part, they're out of the storm, rather than running away from the storm with the possibility of being caught by it, which is like a longer... Very good. Very good. Welcome to our, like, modern relationship with pain.

And that's actually also another conversation about what West End girl is about. I think it revealed this kind of ugliness. and sort of presented this idea of sitting with the ugliness of pain and rage and suffering and seeing what happens if you sit in it and face it. And, you know, you get through it in a very different way. You're on the other side in a very different way. If Lily had hid from the pain of this divorce, we would not have this album. Like, you have to feel the pain.

That's everything. I can't believe you just said that. We should save that, though, for idioms. For listen, bitch. Is that an idiot? It's not an idiom, no. I can't remember who was telling me about it, but it's definitely like an old proverb or whatever.

I love a proverb. Is it a proverb or a proverb? Either way, I love them. Yeah. Feel free to throw them at me any time of day. Also, in the same weekend, Brit Awards, there was also a big TV show which still exists. Apparently a big TV show still exists, Makita.

There are shows that millions people watch on a Saturday night. One of them is Michael McIntosh show, which Jade did. And I was there with her and her mom. And it was fun. I think a lot of people love it. The most notable moment, apparently, according to press, was Jade's getting a folder of wedding outfits revealed. And, you know, the joke was Michael McIntyre was like,

oh no, Jordan, you know, which is again, you know, very, very... Telly. Yes, it's a joke that people make. I personally, I, if anyone is interested, I didn't know that there was a folder or a Pinterest folder wherever it was. Did you not? No, I didn't. But I thought it was cute.

And, you know, like, I'm not like, I talked to. to Jane about our future. So it's not the wildest thing for her to collate an idea of what it might look like. And that's sweet. But this is why it's such a basic joke because it's like we've been together four years. Why would we have not talked about this? I know. But I think it plays into a reality, to be honest, that, you know, we are programmed in society,

I believe anyway. Girls dream of a wedding and boys dream of the house and the money to pay for it, whatever the fuck. And those things are being challenged constantly, which is good, for example, is having a boyfriend embarrassing now, big moment of last year, basically saying maybe it's not a state assemble anymore to have a partner, which I agree with from a female perspective. And then for boys, obviously, I'm there going. There are more important things in life than being a provider, right? This is another thing. But what's funny is what I wanted to actually

talk about was that there's a reform MP called Danny Kruger, and I'm about to drop you some trivia on him after we talk about this, who said last week, or around that time, that he believes that the answer to Britain's sexual revolution is marriage. That's what he thinks is his answer. The institution, obviously, just for clarity, he is a self-proclaimed evangelical Christian, Danny Krueger. And, I mean, I'd love to know your thoughts. I personally find the concept of us being in a sexual revolution right now really funny.

What's he basing such a grand statement on what he said is behind said sexual revolution? I mean, I can only deduce he's talking about only fans. That's the only thing that's revolutionary about the last 10 years. Which is what, sort of the sexual autonomy of women? There. These are ideas that Danny Krugge himself has suggested that is not official reform policy. You know what?

I feel like I do have a bit of a lived experience because of when Lil was, first year of Missed me, when Lil was putting her feet on Onlyfans. And I was like, what the fuck are you doing? And she was very serious about it. And when we were, I think maybe like the third episode, we talked about it when she was starting to make quite, a lot of money from it.

She made a really good point that I had never thought about, which was that people have been, you know, financially benefiting from the sexuality of her for fucking years. Yeah, it was her turn. I was like, right. Yeah. Duh. And I love that that, for me, that was quite a moment.

There was so much press around all that. So it led me to believe that maybe not that many really famous people were on only fans or something. I don't know why Lily got so much attention. Well, Lily's a superstar. Yeah, there's a handful. I mean, it's changed. changed Kerry Cotoners life.

She's taken that woman out of bankruptcy and she's living her best life. She's like one of the highest, she's like one of the highest earners than the UK. But look at that. She's been fucking destroyed. Yes. Dragged through the mud. Her whole entire life.

And now the same men who would have been in those daily mail comments are subscribing 10 pound a month. And that's the thing. So with revolution, yeah, just a bit on that. So you're right. In fact, to solidify your point, the subtitle is just that he believes we're living in an unregulated sexual economy, right? That was an actual phrasing. Unregulated sexual economy, that is why I find the phrase sexual revolution hilarious because the fact we're even talking about sex like it is literally some footsy fucking market scheme.

Like it's, that is the, it's antithetical to a revolution. A sexual revolution in the West or in this country specifically would be greater sex education, greater understanding of our sexual evolution, an understanding of puberty, a mutual understanding of how we learn and grow and shift and change, empathy, compassion, consent. All of these would be revolutionary to sex. And what's even funnier is that he, and say funny because it's not funny, but he claims that his cure of let's encourage marriage and give people tax breaks, basically,

with marriage. That's kind of the policy he was trying to. push would encourage people to have more children. So he as an MP thinks that the decline in birth rates is as a result of only fans, not as a result of growing wealth inequality, like the shutting down of third spaces for sexual education. He's an incredible man, isn't he? He's an incredible. He's a real thinker.

And can I deliver the final, the, can I deliver the cherry on top? Yes, the piece de resistance is. Do you know who his mum is? No. Pruleaf. Fuck off! Oh my God! Fuck off!

I guess he has his dad's surname. I don't even believe that when someone told me. I mean, you're having a fucking laugh. This is Prue Leith's son. She definitely represents, like, you know, I've, you know, when my mum got the job on Great British menu and Prue Leith moved to Bake Off, I looked into like, I was like, who is Prudel?

I knew who she was, but I was like, I wonder where she came from in her whole life, but she's had a real independent financially independent, career-filled, like work-filled life. I'm just very surprised that her son has this stance. So it's also important to note because Prue is posh, Danny is posh, and it's also always very good to remember, I think, the proximity that some posh people have to reform.

Because I think reformers positioned itself as a working class party, but actually the backbones of it and the motor behind it is very, very, very, very wealthy. Absolutely. Jordan I have we must we must end this we'll see you on Monday for Listen Bitch The Listen Bitch is idioms people will tell us idioms and then I also want to know Yeah yeah where they're saying started

So they'll say the idiom their confusion We'll see if we match it and then we'll research We'll see you on Monday for Listen bitch Bye Jordan Love you Bye Thanks for listening to Miss Me This is a Percephonica production for BBC sounds

Hello I'm Amol Rajin and from BBC Radio 4, this is radical. We are living through one of those hinge moments in history when all the old certainties crumble and a new world struggles to be born. So the idea behind this podcast is to help you navigate it. What's really changed is the volume of information. That has exploded.

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