Miss Me? - Red (Carpet) Scare

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss unrelatable love stories from old movies, red-carpet anxiety, being political when you have a platform and the double standards of age-gap dating.This episode contains strong language and adult themes.Producer: Jonathan O’Sullivan Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. on Rogers Internet. Visit rogers.com for details. We got you. Rogers. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. This episode contains... I think you have to say this episode of Miss Me. This episode of Miss Me contains strong language

and some very adult themes. Hi. Hi. I'm just doing my hair. Yeah, I can see that. Can we start the podcast? Yeah. Welcome to Miss Me.

Welcome, everybody. You look lovely. I put on a little sort of friendly earring. Why is it friendly? Because it's a flower. And, you know, usually I'm like, you know, just got my little gold hoops on. But I felt like a few little statement pieces of jewellery could be useful in this format. Basically, we both realised we might need to start looking a bit better in our clips.

Yeah, essentially. I was like, I think I have to go and rescue the tortoise. He seems to be leveraged in a really odd position. And I just think he might be trapped. So I'm just going to quickly go and help him. Okay? Okay. Shush, Zeddy.

God, it's like fucking zoo suddenly. Zoo station. Hi, I'm back. God, it's like fucking zoo suddenly. Zoo station. Hi, I'm back. I'm back. What's your tortoise called? Tortoise? Tortoise.

Tortoise. What is the difference? I don't know. What am I? Oh, I had... Because remember me and Jessie had a tortoise, I think it was, strolling around outside our room in Kenya. It was absolutely majestic and magical. Yeah, I don't know what the difference is.

Terry's quite small. Terry the tortoise, his name is. Terry the tortoise? He was going to be called Poison, and he doesn't really do much. My cat sits on top of his box. I don't know what you even call it. Terrarium?

Oh, yes. And just sort of intimidates him all day. She just sits there looking down at him. I think there's like a warm lamp that she quite likes. And, yeah kind of just face off all day the turtle and the cat yeah they're not they don't really do much he's quite cute he needs a bath actually i need to give him a bath today i'm gonna do that yeah i think if you're a turtle you need water yeah you sprinkle a little bit of water on his food but not too much and then he gets his main chunk of water from his baths, which I think are meant to be a lot more frequent than the sort of every two months.

Sorry, I didn't realise that you were bathing a turtle in a bath. I do it in the sink. I don't do it in the bath. I don't bring him in the bath with me. It's not like that with Terry. No. Anyway, so yeah, I was just going to say, I feel like I've been a bit, like, down, and I haven't been. You've been a little bit of a negative Nelly.

Yeah, that's what I was being. A bit of a negative Nelly, but, like, there's nothing to be negative about. Look, I got this lovely camera from Theo and Sash. Oh, that's lovely. What is it? For my birthday. Like, proper old-school 1970s Olympus. Oh, lovely.

So I'll be documenting the family's life from now on. I look forward to seeing all of the pictures. Well you've got your camera. I have I got a little contacts that I take around with me a little film camera. I enjoy taking pictures on film. I'm not so good at taking photos on the phone all the time. No. I find that the phone photos just become like even more disposable than like disposable camera photos. Yeah, but that's why I've started. Because, you know, I documented all of our 20s. With disposable cameras.

Yeah. And I thought, OK, well, maybe I'll start doing that again. I think it's because my mum hated the way she looked, bless her, in pictures in her 20s. So she didn't take any pictures of our life really ever and didn't ever want to be in pictures so I made like a point to document and now I'm gonna really do it and I remember the first thing I bought when I got paid from Popwell when I was like 15 or 16 was that camcorder do you remember I had that camcorder like video camera I don't remember that and I would record everything if i

had those videos that sounds like something i do not want to see ever see i'd love to see us at 16 17 18 westbourne studios really had it out then yeah it was like that early it was great i i can't believe i lost it some great things on it but anyway it was a beautiful weekend hanging out what did you do um i called you a couple of times you seem to be just watching documentaries I can't believe I lost it. Some great things on it. But anyway, it was a beautiful weekend. Hanging out. What did you do? I called you a couple of times. You seemed to be just watching documentaries. I went deep into documentaries.

I think that was on Friday. I watched the Kareem Rockfield documentary. Former editor of Parisian Vogue. Nice little side hustle story came out of that about the love story between her daughter, Julia Restoin-Rockfield, and Tim Wheeler from Ash. Oh. Yeah.

What, they were together? No, they are together now. She DM'd him like four years ago because she used to love Ash. I don't know whether we liked Ash. Weren't in my top eight on myspace that's for sure and yeah now they're together with two babies oh no maybe they just have one baby and i thought that's a really nice little instagram love story that is sweet that was good um so you watch

documentaries i watched like a old movie marathon this weekend i think it's because my mum was here so i was basically just avoiding her in my bedroom watching movies. You recommended me to watch a Barbra Streisand movie called Mirror Has Two Faces, which was really great. I really, really enjoyed it. Can you tell me what you liked about it? Well, it's about the idea of, you know, sexuality and desirability in a relationship versus companionship right I would say so yeah very much so and what's his name the main actor in it Jeff Bridges he's so great in it Jeff Bridges

and he is sort of he's a mathematician and he's very sort of has a very formulaic approach to his relationship or what he thinks a relationship how it could be successful and it's basically to be with somebody that is a friend but that there is no sex involved in their relationship and yeah it's quite it's quite interesting it's interesting film to watch in a completely different time what that it's set in the 90s yes well also i just think relationships were different then I feel like we it's when people actually related to each other and spent time with each other I don't think people have relationships like that in this day and age I think that's why I've been watching like loads of films from the 90s actually because people did like kind of talk to each other differently

yeah and relationships were relationships instead of like ideas. She talks about love. I mean, it's such a great film because she's like a professor at Columbia University. She wears great berets. It's just brilliant. And she directed it, Barbara Scheisand. And she talks about love and really breaks it down into like, you know, what it is that we expect from love because of the things that we see around us. But I love that line that she says about the fact that why do we always go back for this thing why do we all want this thing why do we all want to fall in love and she just says because it feels fucking great and I like that kind of in relation to like the fact

that it can be devastatingly painful when it's good it's good and it is you said to me you said everyone just wants to fall in love I love falling falling in love. And I was like, even Lily likes falling in love. We all like falling in love. Yeah, I love to fall in love. It's nice. I really liked suggesting something that you then really liked. You just sent me a text the next day and said, loved The Mirror Has Two Faces.

And I was like, that really made me feel good. Yes, and then I went on a whole Barbara path. I also watched The Way We Were. Oh my God, yes. It's amazing that these films got made. Like I was watching it, my mum came up and watched it. And again, you know, it's just a film that you could not get made today, right?

It's like, first of all, like nothing really happens. Like you're sort of 45 minutes in and there's no plot. No, no, no, I actually disagree. The great thing about The Way We Were is very quickly, like, I mean, the story as well. No, we don't have to tell the story, but it's about a love story of a period of time with two people who meet at university that are polar opposites.

And, you know, the war's involved and culture's involved and religion. Yes, but nothing really happens in the relationship is my point. What I'm saying is that you couldn't make that film now. You couldn't get that film greenlit. Like Netflix would be like, sorry, what is this story about? What's the plot? Two people falling in love. Yeah.

Also, the other reason it couldn't be made now is because it's a female protagonist who is a communist. Yes, but this is what I was going to say about The Way We Were. When you read the book, Barbara Streisand, actually there is more of a plot and it's really political. And Sidney, what is the name of the director of The Way We Were? Sidney Pollock.

Sidney Pollock took it out and Barbra Streisand, like, two pivotal scenes that actually give a whole different part of the political plot,

like proper meat. And she saved it. This is why she's so genius and like a crazy bitch. I love her. She saves the rushes of these scenes.

25 years later, Sidney Pollack dies and she loves him and she respects him and she doesn't want to do anything while he's alive. Maybe that's what

she should have done actually. And then he passes away and she goes to the producer, some guy, and they're putting out like a 25 year anniversary DVD and she has to push him for another year and a half and she gets it put back in the film so now you can see the film

because of yeah I think it would give it the story that you are craving no I don't think that's that I'm craving it because I really enjoyed it but I really enjoyed watching a film that had that kind of pace that wasn't really about anything but I just I just find it I suppose also we live in you know fraught times politically so this film is also set in you know the days of McCarthyism some of it um so it's you know it's equally as fraught as things are now but I just don't think that you'd get that past the streamers now. First of all, to have a film that's just a love story set with this sort of political background, because if it's not about the love story,

then it's about the politics, and you're not going to get a film greenlit now about a woman, a communist, yeah, who... Fighting for what she believes in. In Hollywood. It's like, that's not going to happen. Isn't that interesting that the big love story that's everywhere is the story of a 40-year-old woman falling in love with a 24-year-old pop star? I also watched that film this weekend.

Yes, I knew you weekend yes I knew you might I knew you might what did you think about the idea review I mean I mean I mean it was deeply enjoyable it was I texted David who is always taking

the piss out of me for my choices of what I'm willing to endure shall we say when it comes to uh culture well specifically film and tv when I'm on my own I feel like you don't watch that much trash though I watch so much trash I'm just gonna talk quickly about Anne Hathaway the hate towards her I read an article in Vanity Fair with her and she talked quite honestly about it I thought I sat there and kind of giggled along. Like, oh God, everyone hates Anne Hathaway. And she talked about what it was like to feel like the whole world hated you.

And if you were like her mate or something at that time, you wouldn't have been able to be like, babe, it's all in your head. People were vicious, vicious. And what was it that she was sort of too overly sweet and sincere or sort of people thought she wasn't sincere? I don't know. She's just a woman that's successful like isn't that enough to hate someone i'm sure they put a different spin on it though

oh yeah there's always a little spin but at its root it's just a woman that's successful and that's good at what they do so i feel like there was a duality of my watching it where i was kind of like it's nice to see her back on top sorry are we saying the idea of you is back on top? Well, I thought when I first saw that she was there, I thought, God, why does Anne Hathaway have to do Amazon Prime films? But she's no fool and we're talking about it now. I think it was a money grab. I'm just going to put it out there.

I don't think it was like a creative choice that she made. And she does make some of those choices. She does do some interesting stuff but I think that you know when Amazon come to you and say we're gonna do a straight to streaming love story about a 40 year old woman that falls in love with a boy band star you're not thinking this is my Oscar moment no but you might be thinking people will watch this I think you'd be thinking I'll take 20 $20 million. Thank you very much. And this will put me back somewhat

in a zeitgeisty place. You can't, because now when you get a deal like that, it's not just I'm making money. You know that everyone's going to watch what's on the first page of Amazon or Netflix. I don't think you do know. I feel like her thing,

her kink in roles is, don't judge a book by its cover. She's very like, I'm funkier than you might think. It's like, I'm poor, but I'm a princess. I'm old, but I'm hot. I'm ugly, but I'm also fierce. But anyway. Did you enjoy the songs?

No, I did not. No, I did not enjoy the songs. There was one that I was like, this is kind of a tune. What did you think about how they kind of portrayed the hate and vitriol that goes Anne Hathaway's way on social media? I thought that was quite interesting to see what it would genuinely be like to be on the receiving end of that if you weren't a famous person and you were thrust into a situation and how surreal that would become in one's life did you think that they handled that quite I quite liked that bit I don't know actually I mean kids are different right kids are really mean to each other adults are not there's one bit in it where one of the mums comes up to her at summer camp and she's like my daughter was obsessed with your boyfriend from the

age of 10 and fuck you basically and that I was like that wouldn't happen yeah that felt like the most unnecessary people will be quite sort of like unrelenting and rude and bullish on their phones and on social media but in real real life, they're not really. But if it was a male pop star with a girl of 24, if it was a guy that was 40, which would not be seen as old for a male pop star, and he was seeing a 21, I think there probably is a few. And it's just not a story.

Yes. It's not even a thing. He's not even 21, he's 24. Okay. And it just really did make me think about age gap relationships and how one is a story and a thing and the other thing we just don't even discuss like my cousin marlon i'm not saying it's a negative way i love his girlfriend but she's like 22 and marlon's like 41 with no one in the family has ever said anything, ever, about that. It just doesn't even come up.

Callista Flockhart and Harrison Ford. That's like 25 years. It's just not a thing. But Sam Taylor Wood and Aaron Taylor Johnson, absolute nightmare. They get hell. A friend of mine was telling me they still get a really hard time. Yeah, I think any time that she's mentioned on social media,

there's always like a barrage of trolls that are, you know, call her sort of like, you know, really, really horrible things. And they have a family and two babies of their own together. And like, you know, this is obviously, it's obviously love, but it's just, I wonder why it's always the other way around that it becomes a problem. Well, even this weekend, there was a picture of Kate Moss holding hands with Skip Marley.

Oh, my God. I screenshotted it. And I was going to send it to you. I can't believe it. Because. Look at you making your own point. Because me and my cousin Naima, she was like, you know who you should marry? One of Bob Marley's grandsons.

And I was like, that's a great idea. There's fucking loads of them we've got up how many of them there were and he was on the list of the fitter ones Skip Marley

Kate Moss holding hands with Skip Marley and he's 28 and she's 50 oh my god but she does also go out

with Nikolai who's also I think he's like 35 or something so they've been giving her hassle about that for a while yes I mean people have problems with cougars don't they it's again

just another example of like women doing things that they shouldn't be doing you know do you think it implies that they're having far too much fun yeah also society is like hang on no no no you're not meant to be enjoying having sexual relations like with people you're not meant to be enjoying having sexual relations with people. You're not meant to be desirable to a young man. How dare you shake up the status quo so much, you fucking cougar bitch. Get out of here. Do you ever know Adriano? Adriano, our friend Adriano from school, went out with Maya, the artist, MIA, who's a friend of ours as well.

And she was 28 and he was 18. And that was quite a thing in the gang. Everyone was a bit like, oh, she's a dirty old lady. They were really in love. It's the same age difference between David and I. Exactly. And I don't think we've ever even discussed that there's an age difference. It's never come up.

It's because he presents as somebody 10 years younger. No, I'm joking. Maybe I just look 10 years old I look like I'm 50 and he looks like he's 40 how old is David he's exactly 10 years older than me I mean not to the day but yeah I'm 39 and he's 49 so he's going to be 50 he's going to be 50 next year and I'm going to be 40 I think we're going to have a joint you know birthday party to celebrate these milestones. Hi, baby. I'm just recording the podcast.

We're talking about our age difference. Fuck you. Okay, I have to go because I'm working. I love you. Goodbye. I love you, old man. Bye. Sorry.

Did you say, I love you, old man? Yes, because I was trying to tie it into our conversation. Oh, very clever thank you it was so sweet but yeah i watched the tv baftas floella benjamin got a bafto fellowship award and she was just so brilliant. And she made me want to like do great things in the world. They showed Old Play School. I was like, you just forget.

She's like not even mixed race. She's like dark with plaits and beads in her hair on 1970s children's television. Like that would have been hard as anything. Like I can't even imagine. And she talked about that in her speech. And she had a great speech. And the people in the audience that were like, you know, she's touched so many.

It was like Russell T. Davis and Andy Peters and Connie Huck. And, you know, people have been in TV for a very long time. And it's just like, everyone shut up. It's Floella Benjamin. I've been told shut up or you'll never work again when I spoke out. But my mission over the last 50 years has been to get broadcasters and organisations to have diversity and inclusion in their DNA. And it was just beautiful to see her get really, truly celebrated. I think I'd like to host the TV BAFTAs one day.

Oh, wow. Put it out there. Speak that into reality. I was like, yeah, I think I want that job. Well, you know, you're manifesting, babe. If you're listening, BBC, which you probably are, Makita would like that gig next year. OK? I can do the BTS. Can I be like Holly Willoughby in the background the background like interviewing people when they come off stage or not holly willoughby anton deck

that's who i'll be who's the one that did that famous one of um amy winehouse when she comes off the stage at the brits denise van outen who's she talking to you know that clip it's always on instagram store here it is look it wasn't the crowd absolutely loved it we're so thrilled that you're here tonight everyone's so pleased that you're here back and fighting fit so why why are you self-critical of your performance it was a piece of shit you look fit though thank you miss her energy right don't make them like that anymore. Don't make it. That is exactly it. They just don't make them like that anymore. Do you know what hell it is doing red carpet interviews?

You're lucky. You've been a pop star. You've just walked down the carpet past me. I know. People are always like, Lily, can we have a couple of minutes? I'm like, no. It's so hard. I did my time.

Why is it so hard? Because it's sort of like a junket it's just the energy that is forced is very us and them well because there's a barricade right between the two of you you stand there with your mic piece of shit and let these important people who are worthy and valid come through and if you're lucky if you're lucky they'll speak to you it's like it's just very um imbalanced it's like people take it so seriously so you end up taking it seriously and a junket is the same well you mean your peers take it seriously so everyone along the red carpet is all hyped up and taking it seriously or the people

that walking down the red carpet taking it seriously everyone is because it's the way things up because it's like a set right have i ever interviewed you have i know you haven't but this is really interesting because i feel like i would like to give you my side of the velvet rope tell me what that fucking carpet's like you okay so for us right we get there and it's like come here cattle stand here and it's very, you might get a space or not. It's very about space, right? Physically and metaphorically. You don't really have space.

You might get this spot. You're all huddled. Then the famous people are coming. They bring you to us if we're lucky. And then when you get to us, we're told you have five seconds or you have 15 seconds. So it's set up to be intimidating and for you to be powerful and for me to be weak and for you to be better than me for me to be

lesser than you interesting that you have that read on it because i have a read on it which is you know we don't really see you we just want a fucking quote from you and make you look like an idiot tomorrow that's all i want from you and also if someone more famous walks up behind you we're going to shove you out of the way and we're going to you know make them the priority so I feel intimidated walking down that red carpet because I think someone more famous than me is like around the corner and I'm going to be humiliated and sidelined yes and also nobody here really wants to talk to me they just want a. So they want me to like bitch about someone or say something stupid.

And it feels scary and intimidating. Did that ever happen? Have you ever actually had like something really horrible asked you on a red carpet to get a reaction? Because I know the paparazzi would say vile things, but I feel like as an interviewer, I'd never ask you anything horrible.

It doesn't really have to be horrible. It would just be like, you know, what do you think of the other people in your category and you'd be you know it's just like we're gonna twist whatever you say to make you look like a bitch you're like everyone's great everyone's brilliant i'm just so happy to be here and i'm just to be honest in the noughties i just found the whole thing so intimidating that I would just be hammered by the time I got there and then rude to everybody. So that worked out well. Let's have a little break, Lil. Beautiful.

Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back. I just watched eurovision i didn't watch it on saturday night i just watched it a minute ago because i knew we were going to talk about it so i was like let me just quickly watch eurovision thank god i watched it in a place where i could forward a little bit because it's like 15 hours it's the one occasion that i'm glad i don't have the eye player let me put it that way i took one for the fucking team. But do you know what?

I didn't know this. Grimmy told me, because his boyfriend was doing the movement direction for Olly Alexander. Grimmy told me that Eurovision was started for the end of the war to unite Europe again with music and love. I thought, God, that's actually... Wouldn't they be shocked to see what it's turned into? Because that's actually a really nice beginning.

It's nice origins for Eurovision. Yes. Obviously there was a big political background to the whole of Eurovision this year. There is a wider conversation to be had about the mix of politics and music and or slash entertainment, which I guess, you know, harps back to our barbara streisand conversation a little bit earlier in that film the way we were but also

barbara in life as well she's very politically inclined and very vocal and always has been and is very clear about who she aligns with and has had absolute hell for being vocal well i mean she sort of supported the Clinton campaign really heavily and really visually. I don't think people left her alone for like 10 years for it. Are we talking about people? Are we talking about media? Because I think the media gets very cross

when people from the entertainment world try to immerse themselves or involve themselves in politics, right? I mean, funnily enough, people didn't seem to get that angry about it with Eurovision, I guess because the people that are in Eurovision don't really wield that much power, right? They're mostly kind of like unknowns. Obviously, Oleksandr is the exception in that space. But they, yeah, don't sort of like wield the power that I'm talking about you know I guess maybe I'm talking

about people Bob Dylan, Joe Strummer, Bob Marley, Nina Simone you know people from the past that have immersed themselves in whatever political movements were going on at the time myself included actually you know I have been quite vocal about my political beliefs in the past it's not something that I do so much now and in all honesty it's probably because I want an easier life but who was um fuck you very much about um it was I guess when I wrote it it was about George W Bush because it was the tail end of George Bush's tenure as president and going into Obama so things seemed very fraught politically and um there was lots of sort of conversations going on about um female reproductive rights and um you know there was a lot of stuff around that Westboro church do you remember um

that Louis III went and interviewed them they would like go and protest outside abortion clinics and there was a lot of like homophobic rhetoric in the mainstream at the time so I wrote that song but I'm I'm more talking about my um you know my political stance uh in the not the last election but the election before that yeah and this would have been on social media. Yes, and also I got myself involved in some conversations about refugees. I went and did a visit to Calais, I think in like sort of 2015, 2016. And people get really, really upset about it. I wonder why that is. Because I feel like it gives, I'm thinking of like, yeah, some of the people that you were just talking about, like someone like Nina Simone.

like it gives i'm thinking of like yeah some of the people that you were just talking about like something like nina simone it's like being out in the world and as a very big powerful person and saying what you believe in and aligning with that and letting people know about that i think it just gives like depth and breadth to the character of and the person that nina simone is as a musician and a person like i don't feel like there was a particular like back i mean i think the reason that people get or the media get so angry about it is because the media believe that that is their role within society is to influence people politically and so when people that are creative um want to share their ideas about politics it really works because people trust artists they buy their products i mean you couldn't get a politician to

fill up you know a football stadium to go and share your ideas but taylor swift can do it five nights a fucking week so can harry styles so if those people you know can get people to part with hundreds if not thousands of pounds to come and hear them share their ideas it's real power and i think that that terrifies the media because they want to harness that power they want to control people's thoughts when it comes to where they're going to you know put their votes and what do you think taylor will do i don't know obviously there's like a lot of speculation about whether she'll declare for a presidential candidate and obviously with the power that she holds right now,

that would really move shit and mean stuff. It'd be quite interesting for her to, you know, be aware of how much power she holds. Oh, I think she's aware. I think she's aware. But I think she's also aware of the backlash that she will get from the people that are, you know, quote unquote, in control and whether she wants to risk, you know, what she's achieved,

because the tide can turn, and it can turn very quickly. What did you get, though, Lil? What happened? What was the kickback for you when you were voicing your political views? I had to move countries. Yeah, I left the country, actually. I don't know if you remember, but there was this guy that like drove his van into a mosque in Finsbury Park like a few years ago. When they arrested him, he had like a piece of paper in his pocket. It had my name on it, Jeremy Corbyn's name

on it and Sadiq Khan's name on it. So oh my god. Yeah. I mean, like it has real consequences when people want to like use you as like a political lightning rod to make an example of. There are like people in the world. Lily, I didn't know you were on that list. Yeah, there are people in that world that take what the Daily Mail and The Sun or whoever else has to write to heart and they believe that you're dangerous. So, yeah, I guess it's scary. It's scary. I really didn't know that that is scary lovely to chat some politics with you today babe wasn. Wasn't it nice? Two girls chatting about politics.

I feel like we did talk about politics quite a lot today. Yes, but we didn't really give away our political leanings, which is key. Job done! Woo-hoo! Job done. I will see you next week, and we are talking about, as you know because you set it,

we are talking about astrology astrology not astronomy no astrology astrology it's a very big distinction i've been doing research to find out what that distinction really is good i'm glad you have because i haven't oh you better did you not get your chart no No. Oh, God. We can talk about that, though. I'll see you next week, my darling Lily. I'll see you next week. Woo-hoo!

Week next, yeah. See you next week. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. This is a Persephonca production for BBC Sounds. Welcome to the Toonie and Russo show on BBC Sounds. I am here with two of football's most famous friends, Alessia Russo and Ella Toon. Remember when you scored and you did like five different celebrations? Oh yeah, I did all sorts. Hands went up, hands went out, a jump.

Someone's given them to a podcast. Are you joking? It was like the best three years ever. I think I came back a bit Americanised. Yeah, she did. She started saying these mad words. Sucker. Apple is like American. They've been there a month. From BBC 5 Live,

the Tini and Russo show with me, Vic Hunt. Listen on BBC Sounds.