Miss Me? - Reverse Call Girl

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss the importance of boredom in your youth, whether we should take phones away from kids and share their thoughts on Beyonce's country cover version.This episode contains strong language and adult themes.Credits:Producer: Matt Thomas Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan HaskinsMiss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. on Rogers Internet. Visit rogers.com for details. We got you. Rogers. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language and some adult themes. Howdy, partner.

Howdy, partner. Is that Nashville-y? It's Tennessee, isn't it? It's Tennessee. It's Tennessee. What is this weird room you're in? Are you actually in a studio in Nashville or a hotel in Nashville? No, I'm in a hotel room. Oh.

I am so tired. I can't even tell you. I know. I actually did think of that last night. I thought Lily must be knackered. I'm really tired because I flew back from London on Sunday lunchtime and then didn't land until late afternoon. And then I got the girls out of the house. We went and got a burger. I went to bed at like eight o'clock and I woke up at 4 a.m. to get a plane to Nashville. Now I'm here and I worked all day yesterday till about 8 p.m. at night and then I got home. You got there and went straight into the studio?

Mm-hmm. Oh my God, Lily, this is like Britney Spears' 2003 schedule. Not quite, but no, I'm okay. I wrote a song yesterday that was, you know, quite good. I'm quite happy with it. I don't understand this. Like you wrote a song in it. So on all this tiredness, yesterday you went in the studio

and you didn't just make, you didn't just jam a little bit with these new people. You actually finished the song, wrote it and finished it. Yeah. I'm still very impressed by that i really am still so impressed i don't know how musicians do it i don't know how you do this thing called making music and making albums yeah it's quite it's quite remarkable how you can not know someone and then end of the day have written something with them yeah he's talking about the producer yeah he's a he's a producer and writer and we've wrote it together but you know when you

have haven't met someone before you kind of sit down and you know talk for an hour and then it's like okay so like what like what is the next bit no but like what is the next bit? No, but like what is the next bit? Like, shall we share our feelings? No, not really. It's more, because I've also realised that none of my songs are really about emotions. It's never like, I love you so much.

You're in the land of, I love you. That was pretty good. I love you. Yeah, I'm sampling that. Like, Country country westerns interesting i love country music and it's actually quite caribbean of me to love country because when i was in the caribbean there was this radio station in barbados particular called the beat and it was stupendous it was like boys to men jodeci barbara streisand celine dion and i was like well this nuanced Men, Jodeci, Barbara Streisand, Celine Dion.

And I was like, well, this nuanced, weird mix is so up my street. My mom's like, that's very Caribbean. They love a ballad and a love song. I feel like Islands in the Stream is like one of Jamaica's most popular songs. It's that and Barbara Streisand, Guilty. I love Guilty. They're like, we're going to be guilty. In the the ragga clubs I'm not joking it's amazing so if you bring your love of ragga and your love of country to whatever it is you're out there doing who knows what could happen did I send you that video yesterday on Instagram of the

the producer that I work with was like this this is you playing references in the studio. And it just made me laugh so much. It's this guy. I play the most underground record that I own. This is so you forcing me to listen to some weird B-side of some shit. I know. But I just, yeah, poor Americans.icans they're just like what is this person do you know what america is the first place that i um basically when i was in love with grunge music that was the first time i decided to completely

identify myself with what music i liked i was like i'm into grunge I only like grunge I only fancy boys who like grunge I only wear grunge clothes I only have friends who like it became everything about my identity because remember I had that summer with those two people from New York Willie and Cheyenne and after that I was introduced to Nirvana and after that I was just like it actually weirdly I kind of identified myself in this only way I like grunge. But actually, I became an individual because I started secondary school and everyone was a rude girl. And I had to really say to myself, like, am I going to stick with this, this thing that is really important to me? Or am I going to get a bomber jacket and curl my edges?

And I remember that feeling of going, no, I am going to keep my purple dreads and my Dr. Martens and my camo trousers. It's interesting that you talk about this. I think about this quite a lot in relation to the Internet and social media and tribalism and identity. identity. Because I feel like our generation, having grown up without smartphones, we were bored, right? We didn't have this like curated experience that was shot at us through an algorithm that captured our attention, right? We had to go out and find things to be interested in. When you found that thing you attached yourself to it those the people the other people that were into that thing became your tribe and I feel like those things tended to be grunge music or skateboarding or djing or graffiti graffiti or jungle or whatever.

And now I feel like I don't see that so much with young people, but I do see people talking about their race or their gender or their sexual orientation with the same kind of passion and tribalism that our generation attached to, I guess, hobbies, right? Yeah. Or musical movements. But I think our boredom was quite important. Our boredom created our careers. Stay with me.

We were the bored ones because everyone else was in a regular school pattern. And me and you weren't. I spent a lot of time on my own at my mum's house even my mum was at work I was just on my own and you were down the road at Danny and Judy's a lot of the time on your own with that bloody laptop and that's when I remember you started doing all that stuff with MySpace and I think your boredom led to action and my boredom sitting around watching MTV led to my career. A few months later, I was doing the thing I watched.

So I feel like we should be grateful we had that time to be bored because it created things for us. Yeah, but even outside of our careers, we went to Kensington Market and bought like city coloured hair dye and like... Kool-Aid. Fucked up our parents' living rooms and bathrooms with just like crazy colour everywhere. Yeah. What else did we do to fill the time?

Well, acid. I never took hallucinogenics. Oh, we were, me and Cordelia and Phoebe really did. Yeah, I wasn't into that vibe at all i i don't know why i so was i was desperate to take acid i don't know why um but in those days when we were um bit bald and and trying out all these things and figure out who the hell we were we didn't have any um we didn't take any pictures of ourselves. Like I wish we had some more pictures of that time. I think I've got one picture of being 14 that I'm actually using for my birthday party invite

because it's the only picture I have of that time. Well, that's one thing that this generation will not struggle with. They've got, they are literally documenting everything on their phones. Oh God, I know. They're going to have too much to reference. And gosh, don't you already know it? Like, how many pictures are in your iPhoto library? Mine must be on like 60,000 or something.

I'd say 45,000. Yes. Jesus Christ. And everyone in the world pretty much has this. Like, what are we doing? Do you remember Jimmy? When I lived with Jimmy and Tan? Yeah, I remember Jimmy, yeah.

We went for a bike ride. I was trying to figure out when this was. And I guess it was about 12 years ago. It was probably about 28. And we went for a bike ride through town. And he took a picture and then said, I'm going to put it on this thing. And I was like, what?

And he's like, it's this thing called Instagram. You put your picture on it and then other people will see it. And I was like, what a fucking waste of time. Not going to catch on, not a thing. And I think it was about eight months later that it was like creeping into our lives. Creepy Instagram. Your kids don't have it yet though, do they?

No, they do not. I'm saying that they don't. David's been reading this book that I ordered for myself and then didn't read called the anxious generation by jonathan hate i think it is and he says that even though your kids tell you they don't have social media they do and that um they hide it in um like apps that look like a calculator. No. Yeah. That's quite a lot.

Like I can't see Ethel hiding an Instagram account in another app. You know when you used to tell your mum that you'd gone to Cordelia's house for the weekend and actually you were in a warehouse in Stratford taking all sorts of things. What a point. Yeah, my point is this taking all sorts of things. What's your point? Yeah, my point is this is the version of that that our kids, my kids

are probably doing. Well, interesting. If this is the version of that, aren't we getting off quite lightly? I don't know. I actually don't know. The internet is a dark place. A friend of mine

who's got a nine-year-old kid and a registered sex offender turned up at their house the other day because the nine-year-old had been talking to him on Roblox and had given his address to the guy. And he turned up at the house. He had to call the police. Sorry, what is Roblox? So Roblox is like a, you know, parallel, like online kiddie universe

where they run around and play like different games. But then there's a function on it where you can chat strangers. Why would they add that? I don't know why anyone would let that function happen. A mind doesn't, you know, that function is switched off. Although apparently they can sort of, you know, there are ways to get around it and they just don't tell you so i don't know it's a minefield being a parent is terrifying so in answer to your question no i don't think it's less dangerous i think it's actually

more dangerous because while your kids are sitting upstairs in their room on their phone and you're not monitoring it you've got no idea who they're interacting with and what they're sending them and what you know effect that's going to have on them either in the immediate future or later on in life like I think it's can be really really dark and like my brain doesn't really want to go there but at the same time it has to because both my kids have phones this guy says that we shouldn't be giving kids phones till eighth grade now Ethel isel is 12. She's in sixth grade. So that would mean 14. 14, right.

And Mina, I'm now considering, like, do I reel it back? He says that what you should do is get a group of 10 parents and you all sign a pact together. So there'll be 10 kids in their grade that all reel back and don't get their phones until they're, don't get smartphones until they're 14. And you give them flip phones instead. So they can still text and they can still make calls,

which is what they want to do essentially. But they get pissed off at you taking WhatsApp away from them. Well, 14 is when I got my banana phone and it was freedom. But there wasn't danger on a phone then. If anything and it was freedom but there wasn't danger on a phone then. If anything, it was a safety thing. My mum was like,

now I can call you and find out where the hell you are. Yeah, I mean, I'm like, as soon as David was like, we should take the phones off of them, I was like, yeah,

but it means I can track them when they're on their way to school in the morning and I really don't like having to get dressed before seven o'clock. Do the school run. Yeah. I'm like, off you go. Did you have a BlackBerry? Yeah. Oh, see, that would have been

easier if your kids just had a BlackBerry, then they would just be checking their emails and calling and texting. No, BlackBerry's had instant messenger on it. Oh my God, of course, BBM. BBM. It was the beginning of WhatsApp. I my God, of course, BBM. BBM. It was the beginning of WhatsApp. I beg you, give me your BBM. That was like asking someone out. Yeah. Didn't we have like BBM pin?

Yeah, pin, no story. It was that. It was what's your pin? Yeah. And then you'd BBM them your pin. That was it. Oh, a simpler time. What about when you could like send a ringtone via infrared? Oh yeah, I guess so.

If you wanted the musical one. Yeah, like if you had a cool ringtone, you could send it to your mate via infrared on like a Nokia phone. What the fuck? Infrared. That's just reminded me, do you remember 141 where you could withhold your number? Yeah, because 1471 was where you could withhold your number yeah

because 1471 was when you could check the number also i was trying to explain the kids the concept to my children of a reverse charge call the other day oh my god i love to reverse blew their minds they were like what so wait how did you describe it first of all they didn't really understand that like you had to pay for a phone call because i guess they do everything by wi-fi right god so they're just like what do you mean but yeah you go to a pay phone a what a box in the street with a phone in it that you have to put money in it and if you didn't have money then you'd have to like call no this is it what was it set the scene for them probably it's a rainy night you're stuck in Watford. You're trying to get home.

You have no way of contacting your parents. You've been mugged. Yeah, you've been mugged. You've lost everything. It's 1997. So you call and you go, I'd like to make a reverse charge of school, please. Wait, what was the number that you had to call?

Was it 100? 100, yeah. Operator. Operator. There used to be an operator, people. There used to be an operator. And you call them can I make a reverse

charges call certainly what number and then sometimes I would do it so much my mum would refuse she'd be like hello I've got my key to here

would you like to accept your reverse charges call no what she's gonna ask me for something I feel like

Alfie would have said no if it was me yeah if he would call me speak to mum anyway back to social media and phones and kids it is worrying something. I feel like Alfie would have said no if it was me. Yeah, if he would call me. Speak to mom. Anyway, back to social media and phones and kids. It is worrying. The guy, this guy that wrote this book says that, you know, especially for girls and social media, it's unsurprising. Suicide routes

are through the roof and seemingly not slowing down at all, which is like really concerning. And boys are all just turning into incels. They're just like Andrew Tate-ing it up all over the world. No. And I was reading this article I've sent to you. I don't know if you read it or not, but in the Financial Times about the gap between women and men politically. So men seem to be in Generation Z anyway.

Generation Z. Gen Z. Gen Z. Men are shifting to the right and becoming conservative and women are shifting to the left and becoming more liberal. And that gap has widened by 30%, I think, just in the last six years, so since Me Too happened. And I think that Me Too is the trigger.

We're all living completely different and separate lives due to whatever the algorithm is serving us, right? Eek. And who is that algorithm really serving? Is it really about what benefits us or is it about benefits darker forces? Yeah, darker narratives and galvanising dark energy. Yeah.

What does your algorithm give you, interiors? Yeah, and I get quite a lot of Dua Lipa now because of Callum Turner. Well, I get a lot of your husband because we talk about him on this. Now Instagram thinks I'm a massive fucking David Harbour fan. Will not stop sending me videos of him. I get a lot of Carolyn Bessette Kennedy.

Carolyn Bessette Kennedy, who was married to John F. Kennedy Jr. Junior. Junior, JFK's son. They both died in a plane crash. But when they were married, they were sort of photographed on the streets of New York every single day. The sort of first round of that, like,

modern paparazzi. It was sort of like Diana days, wasn't it? Yeah, and it's weird because they died so young, there's just like these kind of 50 pictures of her that circulate over and over. In each one, she is impeccably dressed. I absolutely love her clothes. You know what she was? Quiet luxury. Do you think she's the Rose Muse? impeccably dressed I absolutely love her clothes I just

you know what she was quite luxury do you think she's the Rose muse 100% Carolyn Bessette Kennedy Dua Lipa and Callum

nails a lot of nails and interiors and that's your life which is I think that's pretty on brand absolutely yeah

I feel like there's a lot of truth there your life. I think that's pretty on brand. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of truth there. We're going to have a little break. Lil's a bit tired. She's going to have a nap.

We'll be back shortly. We'll see you after this break. Little breaky wakey. Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet.

Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers Internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you. Rogers. Have you heard the Beyonce album? Did you listen to it? I have heard a few bits. I listened to some of it on the way back home from the studio last night in the car.

I listened to the Miley Cyrus one. And I listened to the Blackbird one, which is the Beatles cover. I think there was one tune on the album. I think it's called Hands to Heaven. Oh, God. That's the thing with Beyonce. When she gets me, she gets me. And it was just like, oh, she got me in my soul.

I heard it yesterday. I was like, that is a tune. I have to listen to the whole thing from start to finish because I haven't done a deep dive on it yet. She does look vibey. She does look great. She makes me quite excited about 40s. She's getting some help.

She has not had any work done, if that's what you're implying. I didn't say that. I'm just saying that, like, you know, she's got a great team of stylists, hair people. You know, she works out a lot. I'm sure she's got access to the best trainers in the world. Like, you know, she's Beyonce. But I looked into her ancestry, and I think it's also rather genetic.

She's, like, got the most incredible ancestral mix. And she's just got great genes. Look at Tina. Look at Tina Knowles. She looks great. Tina Knowles is great bone structure. Remember House of Darion? I do.

Yeah. And that was named after Beyonce's grandmother. And there was a clothing line Beyonce did with her mother, Tina Knowles. And they used a picture of her grandmother. Very good looking woman. She just has good jeans. I read a comment from Azealia Banks where she was like, and stop talking about Jay-Z as if anyone wants to fuck him.

Literally no one's even looked at him for about 10 years. Relax. Oh my God. Wait, is there? Okay. Wait, wait, okay. Do you think that Jay-Z's attractive? I mean, I'm attracted to power.

So yes. So yes, but maybe not like... Physically. Physically. Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. Again, to be honest I'm not really I don't really um it's just hard to say because I don't want like my exes or my current husband to get upset but like I'm not you know it's not really the physical that I that I go for

that doesn't mean that your partners past or present have been unattractive. It's actually really grown up and brilliant that you've always gotten for that, like the soul of someone and who they are and what they're about and not just like the way their face looks. No, I think I don't think the Jolene one's good. It's very weird that you cover the most successful songs in that genre But I also feel like Jolene's such an excellent song I've listened to the story of how Dolly Parton wrote it in about 20 minutes

Over and over because I just think it's so genius And I don't know, it just felt a little bit like a kind of Standard hip-hop beat under a Jolene cover It's like, let's do something with this song. If we're going to take it apart and put it back together, I feel like Beyonce could have done a bit more with that or maybe picked something that was a little less bait to cover. Yeah, I just feel like it's quite an interesting thing to do

when you're trying to tackle a new genre and you just choose the biggest song in that genre to cover. I mean, you do you, Beyonce, and she literally is doing her. Or is she doing Dolly? I think I'd like it a lot more if it wasn't like, this is Beyonce's country album. It was like, it's just kind of a nice album. I feel like it's forcing itself to be part of its own narrative

of I'm a country album. Well, I mean, I think it's forcing itself to be part of its own narrative of I'm a country album. Well, I mean, I think it's intentional, right? I mean, the front cover is her in a cowboy hat, riding on a horse. No, I get it, but I'm just like naive and quite gullible. I'm just like, oh, right, okay, she just loves country. Of course she does. And then Seb was here, my friend Seb was here last night,

and he was like, do you think that she's trying to take over Taylor Swift's market and be the most powerful record-selling artist in the world? And I was like, didn't even think about it like that. I thought she just might like country. Yeah, to be honest, that hadn't crossed my mind and, you know, I love to be a conspiracy. But, no, I mean, I think that it's been quite calculated.

I mean, I feel like at the Grammys when Jay-Z got up and said that thing about like, by your own metrics, this doesn't make sense. You know, because she's never been, I don't think she's ever got album of the year. What Beyonce? She's the most awarded person at the Grammys ever. But they're upset. People are upset because she's never been given record of the year or album of the year it is quite strange that Beyonce's never won that it is quite weird but I feel like that

that was part of this campaign you know that was before the album had come out or even been announced and she was wearing the blonde wig and a cowboy hat and Jay-Z did that speech. And so it's a bit about challenging these institutions that have thus far rejected Beyonce as the icon and institution that she is of herself, right? So now she's the most played woman on country radio, number one. And, you know, I guess she's coming for that market. But is that calculated or? I don't really know why, but then, you know, who am I to question it? I mean, whatever floats your boat. she's coming for that market. But is that calculated or?

I don't really know why, but then, you know, who am I to question it? I mean, whatever floats your boat. As you sit in Nashville making your new album. Yeah, but I'm not like trying to conquer the country market. Like I'm here because I've loved country music and always have loved country music. Not saying that Beyonce doesn't, but, you know, I tell stories in my songs and quite a lot of country music not saying that Beyonce doesn't but you know I tell

stories in my songs and quite a lot of country music does the same thing you know it's generally quite like it's generally quite sort of simple three chord progressions like I think it's well suited to what it is that I do the lamp's gone off again there's tour there's tornado warning here in Nashville this afternoon I was going to have dinner with a friend tonight. She said, do you mind if we schedule? Because there's going to be a few tornadoes. I was like, a few tornadoes? Okay.

Hang on. A tornado is like in that film, right? There's that awful, that film that used to really scare me. No, Makita, it's not in a film. It's in the air. No. It's a weather symptom. What is that film where you really understand

the havoc a tornado can cause? I'm going to Google it. Twister. Twister. Thank you. Thank you. And that, I remember thinking- Has that got Anne Hesh in it?

Definitely. Definitely got Anne Hesh in it. Who's the guy? I think it might be Billy Bob Thornton. Dennis Quaid or someone like that? No, it's the other one, it might be billy bob thornton dennis quaid or something like that the other one yeah but i remember thinking god a tornado tornadoes really cause havoc so if there are three coming is it just to know not three a few anyway so i was asking the woman on reception what what do you do when the tornado comes she said you just have to get to a safe

space i was like oh my god what like underground oh I was like, oh my God. What, like underground? I was like, what, in my car? She said, no, definitely not in your car. No, of course not. Have you not seen Twister? Everyone in the cars go up in it. Like, no. She was like, no, not in your car. And then she was like, you just want to get away from, you know,

rooms with a lot of windows. This room that I'm in is completely, it's just one big window, essentially. This. They're going the whole way around. Oh my god, love. And then she was like, some people like to get in their bathtubs. No bathtub. Oh, actually there is, but it's right by the window. I wouldn't want to get a bath and wait for a tornado.

I think you need a bunker. Oh, I'll just dig one out. Google bunkers in Nashville. You'll be fine. You'll be fine um one thing about the music i love when you sing a bit more country um so feel free to really tammy winette it feel free to really get into that part of yourself because it's a really great you know what i have to say it's quite intimidating being here people are really talented yeah is this your first album you've been making sober okay so there's a lot going on here a little bit it's all right papa it's okay

you're all vulnerable everyone's really good i and there's a lot of legacy surrounding you i know so much legacy everywhere i look feed it feed it into your soul take that legacy put it in you make something brilliant i have all faith in you you know when you have a friend that's really good at what they do? I hope you have that friend. Yes, I have that friend. I'm making her right now. And they go, I'm so nervous.

I can't do this or that. And you go, and you're just not worried. As a friend, I want to support you. But it's strange. I'm just never worried about this kind of thing. Because this is just, I know you can do this with your eyes closed. And I know that this is going to be particularly special because of all the things we've just discussed.

So just jump off the ledge, be the fool and be a kid again. Play, play. Lilzy, I want you to take care of yourself because you don't have any me or mum or kids or anything. And I know you're used to that, but just take care of yourself out in Nashville. Make some friends. Get a cowboy hat. Get involved.

You want me to culturally appropriate while I'm here? That's right. That's right. That's right. You get immersed in that culture and you appropriate it. Cowboy Alan. That's right. You want me doing a picture? My album cover's going to be me doing reverse cowgirl.

That's hot. That's what Beyonce's done. Oh, yeah. Jesus Christ. And she was on a horse for Renaissance, so she's kind of got the horse thing. She's got, what do they call that? What's Horse World called?

What do you mean? That's like an equestrian. She's got the equestrian vibe wrapped up. That's the name of Horse World, equestrian. What's Horse World called? Equestrian. Where will you be in the world when I next see you? I think I'll be back here.

You'll still be in Nashville? No, I won't still be. I'm going back to New York on Friday to take my girls to see Olivia Rodrigo. And then I'm coming back to Nashville. Wow. I'll tell you all about it next week. Good luck. Thanks.

We will, of course, be back for Listen Bitch on Monday. The theme is the pub. Oh, the pub. Oh, the pub. Ironically, trying to remember all pub stories. Can't remember any of them. So this is going to go well. It's going to remember all pub stories. Can't remember any of them so this is going to go well. It's going to be a great episode. See you for Lit on Bitch.

Bye! Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. This is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds. Let's take a journey back to 2003. Canadian teen sensation Avril Lavigne was topping the charts and turning the music industry upside down.

But what if I told you that the Avril Lavigne we know and love might not be the same Avril? What? Did Avril die? Was she replaced by a doppelganger? I'm Joanne McNally, and I'm doing a deep dive into a notorious internet conspiracy. Who replaced Avril Lavigne? Listen on BBC Sounds.

Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers Internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you. Rogers.