Miss Me? - Tale As Old As Time

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss this year’s Met Gala, UK culture and the new series of Black Mirror.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Dear daughter, the lesson that I want you to take from this is simple. Choose yourself first. You cannot pour into others from an empty cup. Dear Daughter is the podcast building a handbook to life for daughters everywhere. Our listeners share their life experiences. We've shared so many moments of laughter and tears. Words of wisdom.

Never be afraid to take risks. Education is your greatest weapon. And letters to their daughters. Dear daughter. Dear daughter. Dear daughter from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts. get your BBC podcasts. Hello and welcome to a slightly gravelly voiced Miss Me edition. What have you got?

Have you got a gravelly voice? I'm just so knackered I can't even tell you that it is coming through in my voice a little bit. I don't have the kind of gravelly twang that you've got. You sound like when Phoebe from Friends loses her voice and then starts singing like Janis Joplin. You sound a bit more like that. Tell us why you lost your voice.

What's going on with you? I don't know. Yesterday I woke up and I had a slightly sore throat but I took a couple of paracetamol and it seemed to work okay. And then today I woke up and I just sound like this. Hello. I think it actually works. I think it works quite well for a podcast though. You sound

kind of like sultry. Well, there you go. I'm feeling sultry today. I mean, we did have a weekend celebrating Miss Lily Allen turning 40 years old. We're in the same gang now, same camp, same side of the tracks. Lily is obviously sober. This is how you would have sounded if you'd really got party and down and dirty at your 40th, which isn't what happened at all. It's actually a very civilized soiree. Yeah. I think I was in bed by 11 o'clock. We did start packing up and everyone was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, we don't have to go

now. It's only seven o'clock. So we had a bit more time for the quiz, the unexpected quiz that I did at the end. Yeah, that was good. Do you remember what your right answer was when you came and sat down? You weren't in the quiz. We had Slytherin and Hufflepuff. I think it was Grumple.

Grumple. What was the question though? It was a collective noun for hamsters maybe or something. Very good. It was very good. She came in, she did it, star turn and then you fucked off again. It was such a beautiful, beautiful weekend. We had the party for Lil at our friend's rather extraordinary house in the English countryside, very beautiful part of the country that I haven't spent enough time in, but now I want to live there. And it was a bucolic scene with flowers everywhere and we had a hot sunny day and all our family and friends.

It was a perfect day. It was a beautiful day for Lil. I'm so happy it went the way it did. I had a really nice time. I was sort of like, I really didn't have much to do with the organization of it. I kind of just like handed it over to my cousin, Gracie, and my, and you know, a couple of my other friends, yourself included.

And I, so I didn't really know what to expect, but it was really nice. It was like very low key lunch in the garden. You know, your mom organized all of the food, which was delicious. We got the food very right. I thought very right. Yeah, the food was amazing. And yeah, you know, I got some nice presents from people and but it was just it was just nice.

It was just nice to be surrounded by people that I love and care about and that love and care about me. Yeah. It was good to see some of the aunties and uncles. I was good to see Danny and Judy. I haven't seen them for so long. I love them so much. I love Danny so much. I was asking if he remembered. He was, no, he asked me, do you remember being our house a lot? I was like, are you joking? I thought it was my house.

We loved it, your house. And I said to him, Danny, where were you guys? Why did you leave your fat house to like Lily and her 20 year old mates for like the entire summer? And he was like, we were just at our country house. We thought we'd leave, we thought you guys would take care of the house. I was like, we so didn't. It's not what we did at all. It was good to talk to him. And then on the Friday, I had a little

nice afternoon-y moment with Auntie Rose and Phoebe. And we had a little gossip. The adults love a gossip. They love to throw a bombshell from the past. Rose was like, oh yeah, but then blah blah, I slept with blah blah. I was like, excuse me? So that was quite fun. She gave me some good gossip. So we did it, Lil. We did it. We don't have to do it anymore. You're 40 now. Don't have to worry about turning 40. What we're going to do for it, how it's going to go. Now it's the nine year countdown until your 50s. Oh my God. It's only nine years to go. Nine years.

Not doing that. So yeah, big week. Not only did Lily Allen have a birthday party, but it was Met Ball week, Met Ball Monday. What a Met Ball it was. What an utter disappointment. I don't think I've ever been so underwhelmed in my life. Okay, let's get into this.

New carpet, got a new carpet, blue. I didn't notice that. I liked it, it felt like everything had a little bit more sort of extra richness to it. But we should probably talk about the theme and why it may have been misconstrued somewhat by certain Hayley Beavers of the world who I love. I love Hayley Beavers. I think she dresses beautifully and nice all the time. But let me just get the proper title, proper name for it. It is super fine, tailoring black style. It's sort of a celebration of

black culture and particularly the black dandy. And I think that if we're talking about the history of what that kind of style is about, it's the way that black people held themselves and dressed in response to the dehumanization of their people. It's about respect and dignity and it is a sign of power, I think. And I think when that gets turned into a fashion statement and just a fashion statement, maybe the power of the messaging is a bit lost. So when it comes to like Gigi Hadid and just like a gold dress, it feels a bit like, do we, does anyone know what this theme means? Did we, did we get the email? Did we read it properly? Some people came correct. I thought Rihanna looked great revealing her third pregnancy.

The third bump. Yeah. Bloody hell. The Met Gala, I just love like a big, big old ball gown. So I guess like the tailoring thing just didn't, wasn't doing it for me, you know? Ah, right, because this particular kind of style is about tailoring and shape and simple classic styles. And you think that's a little bit too reserved for the world of the carpet of the Met.

Listen, I'm not, I don't want to like come down on it. I just, you know, usually when I wake up on a, you know, on a Tuesday, the first Tuesday in May, I'm like excited by, you know, the ball gowns and the sequins and the glitters and the trains. And I just didn't see much of that. And I just thought like- I didn't get enough of that.

This is a bit boring, sorry. You didn't get your ball gown hit. No. What about Kylie Jenner? I thought she looked quite good. She got Maximilian to dress her about Kylie Jenner? I thought she looked quite good. She got Maximillian's dresser for Ferragamo. I thought that was quite nice. But I just think that it's a really strong, important theme, which may have been somewhat

diluted when it came to the actual looks that represented something that really is a massively huge part of black culture. But Zendaya did it nice. I quite like that all white trouser suit. I thought that was really nice. But I wanted to talk a little bit about this theme and if we're talking about dandyism and the way black people have used clothes as a sign of protest and self-respect. And then we saw that mirrored in the Winrush movement. And I think that's carried on to this day. In Hackney today, you see the uncles, the Caribbean men of Hackney in East London and

West London, and probably South. They still are in their three-piece suits with shiny shoes and neck achieves and accessories and canes and hats. It's become a really vital, important part of black culture and sort of looking after yourself in the face of dehumanization. And I've always thought everyone looked fly as fuck. I think it's a beautiful thing. Like I have a beautiful picture called The Twelve in our family.

I don't know whether you've seen it it and it's a picture of my nanny and her five brothers, sorry six brothers and five sisters in 1950 with my great-grandmother and my great-great-grandmother and my great-grandfather. And everyone is dressed in their, you know, as they say, Sunday best. And these clothes became more than just like getting dressed up for a nice thing. This is how you showed self-respect in the face of what it meant to be a black person for the last 50 years. And I think that that has kind of evolved through black culture in the way the black man has used clothes for his power and his self-respect throughout the years. And I think it was maybe possibly just not quite

the right theme for the Met Gala because all of that was lost instead of all of that being really pushed to the forefront. Do you not think that that was celebrated? No, it felt like Sabrina Carpenter turned up as a circus person. Didn't feel like there was any kind of reference to black culture at all.

I mean, but some people, you know, often get the, get it wrong, you know, get the theme wrong. There's always a few people that just sort of ignore the theme. But I thought for the most part, people seem to be adhering to the theme. Yes, but I feel like there were quite a lot of white people that got a bit lost, which is fair enough. It's not uncommon. I'd like to talk about the rise of the black man in America versus the rise of the black man in this country. I don't think we've ever had as many powerful young black men in the industry as we do now. I'm talking about like Stormzy and Dave.

But these people, this is relatively new. When we were growing up, the strong, powerful black men, I would look to America to see. I actually watched a documentary about Michael Jordan recently and the origins of Jordans and what that really meant, like the way that the black sportsmen could become very rich and very powerful and very influential. And in this country, I just don't think that happened until a lot later.

It's definitely still a problem. Yeah. And I think also when it comes to the industry, I think young black actors are still talking about the fact that they have to go to America to gain real success and real power and real prosperity. There was the first wave, Idris Elba was working on the door of some bad club for years while he tried to get some just any kind of role. And he has to wait for the moment that he gets the wire in America and then stay in America to raise his profile and to become an actual powerful person in Hollywood. That would have never happened if he stayed here. Even my uncle Eamon,

who's an actor, he was on the bill with Uncle Nick. He was a real heartthrob in the 80s. He was doing very well. He left the bill, could not get a job here. Only got work when he became a character on that show, Oz. Do you remember that show, Oz? The prison show? It was a fantastic, brilliant, seminal American drama about the prison system. And he was on that for like 10 years. Again, when that stopped, he came back here, tried to work again, couldn't get a job. Now is on Chicago fire. And he has to live in Chicago to just be a working black actor. And I think that's still something that's a real problem. Even with the new guys like Damson, Idris, Naomi Harris, David Harewood,

Chihuahua, Ejiofor, everyone's gone to America to gain prosperity and power. And I wonder why it's still like that today, why nothing's changed. In England, you mean? Yeah. Well, I wish I had the answers. I don't really. Yeah, it does seem like there is more opportunity for black people to succeed in America on

a larger, on a grander scale than it is here. Yeah. I mean, I suppose America is a hyper capitalistic land that sells the dream of power and prosperity in a way that I don't think we really do here. No, we've spoken about this before. It feels like in America, you know, whatever kind of box there may be, there seems to be a sense of encouragement to do whatever you can to get inside the box. Whereas in England, it feels like there's a concerted effort to keep people out of said box. That makes sense. Yeah, I'm gonna have to come to America then

if I wanna gain real prosperity. Because I see it happening in television as well with black people and black broadcasters only being allowed to get to a certain level and not being able to gain real prosperity for yourself and still being someone that's waiting around to be picked for a job. And I just don't think that you can gain the power that I want to gain in this country. Ella May as well. Do you know that singer Ella May?

Yeah, I know Ella May. She was, you know, really, you know, tried her hardest here to succeed in England. And then as soon as she went to America, became incredibly successful. And would probably stay out there now. It's a tale as old as time, yeah. A tale as old as time that I was just hoping had changed. And when I started looking into it,

I was like, no, this is exactly the way things still are, and that feels, I mean, but I do feel inspiration from these young men, from the Daves and the Stormsies, and it's maybe Kano will throw in as well. Anthony Joshua, there are these young men with these powerful positions in our country, but I wonder how far up they can go and how limited their reach can be. If they want to actually gain more prosperity, I think that you can't do that in this country. But there are brilliant things, of course, that see in a way, black culture is such a huge part of UK culture. Yes, we may not have gained massive amounts of prosperity in certain

parts of the industry. But you can't say that black culture didn't kind of help mold UK culture over the last 50, 60 years. Garage, reggae. No, for sure. Even someone like myself, you know, on my first album, I did quite a lot of sampling of, you know, reggae music, music that, yeah, music of black origin. All of the music that we've ever been into since we were kids, drum and bass, jungle, hip hop, has shaped us, right? Deeply. What other things do you think make UK culture,

make up UK culture? Calf, the calf? Yeah, I like the calf, yeah. But for our jelly deals. The betting shop, I'd say. The betting shop, pubs, pub culture. Well, not for long. Not for long.

Pubs are closing and pints are a tenner. It's fucking over. Football. Yeah, but again, that's what's going. This is what AJ Tracey was talking about. And I don't want to use another podcast podcast clip, but let's have a little listen to what AJ Tracy said about the loss of UK culture. What that really looks like today? The things that people used to love about the UK are slowly evaporating.

What kind of things? Well, going down to a pub and having a pint, that's British culture, that's a UK staple. But when a pint is so expensive now, it's like you're already trying to make ends meet at home and then you don't have time for extra curricular pints. Before it was cheap enough that you could go and enjoy yourself. Everyone can meet up at the pub, see loads of different faces, colors, races. And once we're separated by money, it's like all the different things where working class people would meet each other and mingle. We can't resolve.

You can't do them. But even back to the football one, it's like working class people who football is meant to be for, it's like they're still at work. If the kickoff's wild, they're still at work, they can't go to the game. If the games out price them, they can't go to the game. And even for young people, youth clubs, there's barely any youth clubs. Like I don't know where the youth clubs are. The parks are dangerous now.

So I had a kid right now, I wouldn't be letting them play at certain parks, you know, like, but when I was a kid, I was out all the time. It was fine. My mom was like, yeah, just be back on time. Enjoy yourself. You know, I didn't even have a mobile phone. It feels a bit different now, you know what I'm saying?

And then with the, all the political agendas that be, they're the political agendas that we want everyone to separate and be against each other. And it feels like it's working to be honest with you because the country feels a bit dark right now, no? Yeah. And it's only when I go to like, I'm from Trinidad, I haven't been there for a minute, but when I'm over there, everyone is really happy. They don't really have too much, but they're just happy of community vibes and helping each other out. And I feel like the UK used to feel like that when I was younger. Good point. Well said, AJ Trossy. And he's from Grove, you know, he's one of us.

Yeah. He was talking on Paloma's podcast. Everyone's got a podcast. It's called Mad, Sad and Bad. I guess like, I feel like when we were growing up, there was a real sort of celebration of like the multiculturalism that existed in our like respective areas. And I feel like as people have become more and more divided politically over the past few years, it's not something that's celebrated so much. Because I think if you do if you are celebrating that aspect of Britishness, then you are, you know, marking yourself as leaning a certain way politically and people don't really want to get involved in those conversations because it makes you a target for people that lean the other way. And, you know, it feels like people are on a sort of

quest of like avoidance of not wanting to have to get into those conversations, right? Yeah, but I think also that if we're talking about these incremental changes, whether it's how much a pint costs or another 10 community centers being shut down, or not being able to watch the football because you can't afford the streaming fee, then those things are directly affecting the communities in this country. those things are directly affecting the communities in this country and that is directly affecting the culture of this country. Imagine you can't fucking afford to have a pint or watch the football. These are things that were born within the working class, for the working class, that are now becoming inaccessible

to them and becoming a middle middle-class Sort of well, I hate to do it I'm against it because you berate me for every week, but all of the things that you are talking about involve Community and people coming together. Yeah, and people don't do that anymore because they're sitting on their phones at home in bed No, no, but but but the the the people I'm talking, the one who watch the football in their local pub and have a pint are not obsessed with social media. That's just about being in your community and spending time with your people and not being able to even do that. No, but they'll sit at home on the sofa and then they'll watch the result come through on their phone.

Oh, don't they wait for match of the day? I don't even know if people have live TV anymore, do they? They do. Garfun watches match of the day every day. Is that what every day? I don't even know if people have live TV anymore, do they? Like they do. Garfield watches Match of the Day every day? Is it on every day? No, it's not on every day. Match of the Day is not on every day. Is it not? No. I live with Garfield now. I hear it at least three times a week and it's really comforting. But I remember when football was on ITV or BBC One. Every game was. Now you've got to have like Sky Sports or Fox Sports. What's the other one that Garfield has? He pays a lot of money to watch his football now. Yeah, I think that it's outrageous how much people have to pay for, you know,

subscriptions to all of these different services. I don't understand how people are coping and how, yeah, how you can absorb culture and art. Everything seems so fucking unaffordable. It's an outrage. It's a travesty is what it is. It is a travesty. Just going back to that about subscriptions, did you see the Black Mirror episode, the first one of the new series? I didn't.

There was an episode of Black Mirror, the first episode of the new series, which had Rashida Jones in it. Yes, yes. What's his name? The Irish guy that's married to Dawn Lloyd Porter? Chris O'Dowd. Chris O'Dowd, yeah. They were both in it.

I guess it was sort of a comment on subscription culture and where it is that we're heading. It was absolutely terrifying. So basically she had, has an accident or sort of like an aneurysm or something where something goes wrong with her brain. And while she's in a coma, this woman goes to Chris her dad who plays her husband and is like, you know, we've got this new thing

that we can fix her brain, but you have to pay this much a month. And he's like, you know, we've got this new thing that we can fix her brain, but you have to pay this much a month. And he's like, okay, so he does it. But that, you know, they're already sort of like making ends meet. She's a teacher and I think he works in a garage or like, I don't know, building, building something. Okay. Anyway, so they get the thing and her brain is fine. But you know, the way that it works is sort of like, you know, how mobile phone towers, you know, work in your in your local area or whatever. So it's the local towers that enable her brain to be able to work to work. And then then things start happening. Like she starts suddenly blurting out like

adverts against her will. And so they go back to the woman and they're like, well, I'm like a school teacher and suddenly I'm like, you know, suddenly like some advert for some medicine comes out of her mouth. And she's like, oh yeah, we've changed it so that you're on the entry level tier. Now you have to pay a certain extra amount of money and then the adverts will go. And obviously it just gets more and more ridiculous. Like YouTube premium.

Yeah, and then it gets more and more ridiculous until it's completely unaffordable. And also she can't travel anywhere because she only has access to the masks that are in her area. And so they go on this road trip and they go out of the service area and her brain just completely shuts down. And then they go back to her and she's like, oh yeah, sorry, you have to pay extra to be able to travel anywhere.

Very clever. Yeah, it's it's an interesting comment on subscription culture and where we're all heading. Well, I've just canceled everything. And it's been quite freeing. Seeing how many things were leaving. I was like, Oh, my God, I do pay for that. What do you think is the most important thing you pay for? Genuinely, I couldn't live without WeTransfer. That's how I download Miss Me. Yeah. Front Floss sends it.

I do WeCollect, that's how we share content in my team daily. And when it was down, I suddenly realized how much I needed it. I didn't think that'd be so high up my list. What's on yours? Hmm, I mean, I think I've got it all, you know? Do Netflix, Paramount, Peacock, Hulu, Disney.

Yeah, but which one could you not live without? I could live without all of them. And there might be one that you're like, no, I actually need that to get by, like DocuSign or something. No, I don no, I actually need that to get by like docu-sign or something. No, I don't think I would need docu-sign. I'm not signing that many contracts at the moment. What could I not live with?

I mean, I guess maybe like Dropbox, because that's how people send me music sometimes. Good for Charlie Brooker, you know, for writing Black Mirror, because he was just like, not jazz, but he was like, you know, a comedian. And then I suppose a sort of like television. No, that's not fair. I would never call him a television pundit, but he had his sort of his rundown of the year in television, which was always very good. But Black Mirror has taken him like to the top. Like he does a very cool left field move from Charlie Brooker. And

I love that he's married to Connie Huck. Yeah, I love Connie Huck. I love Connie Huck. She's a great woman. Me and my mama love huge fans of Connie Huck. Very smart, brilliant woman. So well done, Charlie Brooker for scaring the shit out of all of us about the current world we live in. That is what he's doing, right? Well, I don't know if he's intentionally trying to scare people. I think that he's just very good at taking things

that we all experience day to day and presenting it in a different way that makes us think twice about the way in which we're living our lives. That's a good career to have. Isn't it just? Make people think a little bit more. I'm going to have a little think.

I'm going to go into Uncle Nick's garden and have a little think in the rose bush. Do you want to say anything about your garden? Was that what you were leading me? Makita has made a terrace garden for me for my birthday present and it is absolutely beautiful. Oh, no. It is so nice. The sun is shining on all of the herbs and everything. Everything's, I should probably water everything today, actually, I'm gonna do that after.

Definitely, and did you see that? I've made you like a kind of fruit area. There's like blackberries and rhubarb. Yes, I did. I've inspected it all. There's categories. I've inspected it all. Okay.

Okay. And it's only gonna get more beautiful. Let's wrap it up. Let's absolutely wrap this up, Lil. Well, I will talk to you next week on Listen Bitch when we are discussing dancing. We should be dancing. Let's just discussing dancing. We should be dancing. Yeah.

Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think about all my favorite songs with the word dancing in it. I'll make a list and we will see you on Monday. See you then babe. See ya.

Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. This is a Persephoneka production for BBC Sounds. I'm Joanna Page. I'm Natalie Cassidy. And we want to tell you all about our podcast. Off the telly. It's basically both of us chatting about what we've been up to.

On and off screen. It's just brilliant. Who and what we just can't resist. We've plenty of behind the scenes stories and gossip. Yeah. Cracking, we always say cracking now. Really? Everything's cracking.

It's definitely the place for what's occurring. Oh Jo, you do that so well. Off the tally. Listen to all new episodes on BBC Sounds. Dear daughter, the lesson that I want you to take from this is simple. Choose yourself first. You cannot pour into others from an empty cup. Dear daughter is the podcast building a handbook to life for daughters everywhere.

Our listeners share their life experiences. We've shared so many moments of laughter and tears. Words of wisdom. Never be afraid to take risks. Education is your greatest weapon. be afraid to take risks. Education is your greatest weapon. And letters to their daughters. Dear daughter. Dear daughter. Dear daughter from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.