Miss Me? - The Devil is Me (ta)

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss tattoos, social media on trial and the musical legacy of Shaun the Sheep.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Commissioning Producer for BBC: Jake Williams Commissioners: Dylan Haskins & Lorraine Okuefuna Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Dive into the bonkers world of David Mitchell and Robert Webb and listen to their BBC comedy show. From nonsensical maths quiz number wang to finding out what James Bond is really like as a party guest. There's something for everyone. Hello, MOTT AAT. Yes, that's right. This is the Ministry of Things that are apparently true. Yes, we do exist. The rumours are true, ironically.

Start listening to that Mitchell and Web sound. the complete series 1 to 5 wherever you get your audio books. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language and adult themes. Welcome to Miss Me. It's great to have everyone back together after a week of no miss me. Someone in the family still said to me the other day, said, who was it? I think it was Kelly. I hate when it's Tuesday and Wednesday because there's no Miss Me. I was like, I don't you three times a day on the phone. She's just hardcore. She wants that fuel.

I like you in this baseball cap. Who are we today? I just, I haven't done my hair. Well, it looks really sweet. Thanks, babes. I realized that my favourite hair product of late has been giving me spots, so I had to swear of it.

So I'm just finding some new products. But in the meantime, I kind of just about made breakfast and drove Jay to the station, so I just stuck a hat on. Do you know what I'm saying? Where's Jade going? Who knows, mate?

Okay. What Jade does with our personal life? You know? It's not contractually obliged to be told. She's going to circus school. You know, I wouldn't fucking put that faster. Yeah, I'm sure she is. I had a weekend of, I guess, raving.

No, I think that would be, no, that would be. You go to Annie's thing? No. That does sound like an actual rave. What was that? Annie's thing is amazing. Before midnight. Oh, my God.

Oh, it's before midnight. A dream. There are other raves available. I have to, you know, I have to get on the old G.L. What's that? I'm in such a silly mood today. Oh my God. I'm actually in the silliest mood.

What the fuck is happening? That's okay. It stands for guest list. This might be a mess because I'm like shaky PMS-E and you're giggly. I feel really silly today. I feel like there's no one to lead. I feel like it's because I'm wearing black. Like usually some of my silliness might seep into the colors I'm wearing,

but instead there's refurb. reflecting back up into my brain and being... Manor wear black. Manor wear black. Okay, so... Why are you raving then? Explain. Yeah, Friday I'm not a rave. But I went to do a Rekke.

Are you joking me? Sorry, are you fucking kidding me? No, I mean, it wasn't a work recie. It was just what I'm calling it because I speak in work tongue. But yeah, it was like a birthday recie. I'm like going to have my birthday party here. Right.

Right. Okay. And Seb was. also like, oh, because it's Sebs 40th in the summer. So he wants to find someone. So we were like, okay, I guess we're going out in Shoreditch on a Friday night. Are you guys going to do a double birthday? No, not at all.

And then it was James Suckling's 40th. Do you know James Suckling? He's Jamie Winston's husband. Sure. That cruise. Is it a suckling a name of a baby goose? And it's a gosling. Yes.

I feel like a suckling. Maybe that's a little pig, though. Is it like a little sucker? A little pig? A suckling sounds like a little. a kind of posh insult. Shut up, you suckling. You dirty little suckling.

You don't. A little suckling refers to the act of a newborn mammal or infant. Oh, it's feeding. It's a verb, suckling. Yeah. Okay. So that was lovely. Do you know what he did?

He took over an old Italian calf called Pelichies, E. Paliches in Bethelgren. And that was where the party was. And I was like, this is my vibe. I love when people have. parties in just like old school places on the street rather than like a club and then I was like home at 2 a.m. I was like, what? Go on, Keats. Did you go home and start doing a pitch deck? No, me and Seb came home and danced to Mariah Carey. Okay, cool. Am I sitting there? That's really cute.

Yeah, I love that. I want to say that I'm getting, I'm getting two neck tattoos tomorrow. Oh my God. So how do you feel because you seem to be snobby about things? What do you think about neck tattoos? I'm not snobby. I just... Sorry, you, you're, you're, you're, you're, you, you're have opinions on things. I just think you've got a beautiful, elegant, swan-like neck. Swan-like is brilliant. I don't know what you're putting on it. Tell me what it is you're adorning your neck with.

So basically, oh, okay. Well, actually, it was rooted partly in the reading I did with Phoebe in Sri Lanka. Oh, children! Yeah. Phoebe did the reading. It's when I was heartbroken and whatever and I ran away to Brazil. I went to this place that would practice Condombole and I was assigned to Ereches, right? Like, not everyone has two.

Some people have one, some people have two. Anyway, the point is, I'm my ruins read, and there's this belief within that culture and that, I guess, religion or? Come on, tell the people what an Erescia is. An Eresha is a deity that is worshipped in various kind of ancient cultures and religions, namely Yoraba, Vévi, Kandomile. They carry meaning through other gods and goddesses, supposedly. But I love that belief in Erecha.

The point is I was given these two Erechas that appear in various forms throughout all of history and mythology. It's actually fascinating. So they appear as even like modern, or not modern. They sometimes appear as like Roman gods and goddesses, but they're rooted still in like an ancient idea. Anyway, I found two symbols representing either of my Erechas. And when I was in Thailand, I was in this beautiful tattoo shop and the guy actually put the stencil on my neck so I could see. I was so close to getting it done then. But I thought because next quite a big spot and because I don't, I personally, love the belief that you can't just like F with symbols like that. I think you've got to be quite conscious and intentional.

I don't know. Really? Okay. Yeah, I think you have to treat energy with respect. You know, I think it's... I understand that. Yeah, anyway, that's my own thing. That's my own practice. So yeah, so I wanted to think on it, sit with it.

I messaged my uncle. I mentioned a few people. I'm going with my friend who's Yoraba. So I just wanted to make sure it was the vibe. And it's on my neck because that's how I felt I wanted to put it. And also I used that part of my body communication. and one of the things I've been working with in myself, which I think I mentioned on Miss Me once I came back,

that I don't really have, yeah, I'm a bit of a nomad. And so the idea of an altar, which some people have, my altar is in a different town because that's where I used to live. And so I kind of want to make myself one in a way, especially to prepare the kind of energies that I think are around the world. I mean, I sound like I'm on some other space,

but it makes a lot, this is how I've cultivated my space at the moment. It's interesting that you said, you said about your neck and it being, did you say your voice? Well, yeah. I mean, I wanted to go there anyway. Because what chakra is this? The throat chakra, for God's sake.

Throat chakra, yeah, yeah. But when I did the reading, I pulled two cards that were representative of my two Eretaceouss, which was kind of spooky. Wow. And so I was like, oh, they're trying to chat to me, you know. Yeah, no, absolutely conversation. If I can just give myself that protection. I know, listen, people will have varying beliefs in terms of.

of like energy outside of ourselves. I really do believe that it would be arrogant of us to assume that there aren't things beyond our scientific capabilities. So I do think there are other energies going on and I enjoy it. I enjoy feeling like I'm in conversation with something greater than me. So that's me engaging with that. And also look, worst case, you know, you can always cover them up with a bit of foundation or whatever.

No, no, no. I don't think we'll be covering them up. I've sat with it. I think it looks good. And I'm getting another little face one as well, but that's it. But I love this idea of laying something upon your neck. it becoming a way to communicate with the divine. Thank you very much.

Yeah, yeah. Just symbols, symbols are powerful. Like regardless of whether or not we believe them to have, you know, like, mythological, or not mythological, but like meaning beyond. We communicate with symbols. Totally. You know this? That scene in practical magic where Sandra Bullock's talking to, like, the detective,

and he's got his badge on. And she says, what about your badge? It's just a piece of plastic. but it means something because you believe it does. And we all do. So we see that, I'm a policeman. We go, oh, that means he's a policeman. He's in charge.

He's a da-da-da-da. That means this thing. Yeah, exactly. Symbolically as well, I had some, I mentioned it. Oh, yeah, I did a video about talking about having an ex-hat with a friend. And a few people messaged and they think they look at that. And someone mentioned about being employable and this kind of stuff. And that also adds to the idea of like, if that is also some kind of rebellion,

then great. Because, well, back in a day. the idea of markings on a face it's not that uncommon. The fact that somebody can judge or assume something of a person because they've chosen to mark a visible area that's something I'm not down with

and it's almost like makes me want to do that more. I bet it fucking does. A little bit, man. I think it's cool. I love tattoos. And I've seen the elders with tats and they look fucking wicked. Yeah, I think I don't,

I think that's also quite an old idea that a tattoo doesn't age well on a body. I think that's not true. But Phoebe just got a fuck off. black cat from the back of her neck down to the top of her bottom. That's what I'm trying to fucking say. For her divine goddess Bastet. And it came at a really interesting time.

It came at a time when she was releasing herself from a lot and stepping into a very new chapter. Yeah, new chapter business. That's what we're talking about. And it's important to mark those new chapters in life. It really is. All my tax are chapters. Yeah, of course. That I do like about tattoos.

They become markings of time. Times. Times. Right. What's on the schedule? We need to talk about what's on the schedule. That's my bad. I should have,

I should have re-uped on that. Well, only a huge moment, a seismic moment in, you know, I suppose liberation and justice for the peace. What is that saying? What are you going on? Oh, you're talking about meta. Yes.

Yes, meta. Brov. Yes, I'm talking about that. It's a big day. This bugs me out that is taking a go. to do this, you know. Yeah, so a jury in Los Angeles have found Google and Meta,

have built intentionally addictive social media platforms that harmed a 20-year-old mental health. Why now? Why this case? Why has this case gone... Because she's the only one is on smoke, bar! Yeah, she's just known as Kaylee. It's particularly the algorithm

that she's discussing here. She's saying this algorithm has had a detrimental effect on her mental health. She said here, the lawsuit claim that Kaylee, who started using YouTube at 6, and Instagram at 9 developed depression, anxiety, body dysmorphia

and obsessive tendencies. She testified that she spent up to 16 hours a day on Instagram replacing family and social engagement. Meta and Google are appealing. They've said they will appeal. But the thing is, right, what's so wild about it is firstly the age of which she was able to create the accounts, right? And secondly, her lawyers argued that meta and YouTube

built addiction machines. And the thing is, there was that documentary You weren't on Netflix called The Social Network or something. No, it wasn't called that. Oh, no, that's a film. So, yeah, the documentary that was on Netflix is called The Social Dilemma. And they interviewed a lot of the people who had either, there was interviewed the person who created the like button.

They interviewed the person who created the Infinite Scroll, right? Yes, I did see this. All days. It was just days of their lives. They didn't think ahead, right? But they said openly on this documentary that their own children weren't allowed to use social media. So they knew.

Yeah. Mark Zucker has said that there is. is an age limit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the difference is, the difference is, things have changed because on platforms where you have to implement ages. So, for example, we had the landmark thing here

where you have to put in your ID in order to get on a porn site. Now, sorry, okay, so just to be clear, the Online Safety Act has put in place stricter checks on porn across all major social media platforms requiring age verification. Because I didn't know that.

So there isn't that equivalent, for example. There's no form of identification required for X, for Insta, for, for, for, for, for TikTok. They argue with porn sites that people use VPNs and stuff but to be honest that would actually be quite

it would just be annoying even creating that one moment arguably is better you know than just not having that moment there at all. But they just can't monitor it they just can't

it's like the beast has been I don't know. Of course they can no this is what annoys me is firstly like Laura Bates has done such great work on this right she did a book

I've mentioned this on it here before I mean I just they can keep because they're creating AI yeah No, but I think it's, what I think is, yeah, no, of course, I mean, they can fucking do whatever they want. But what I think is interesting is that there is, this is a shift. This idea that there is consequence and accountability from that side feels like a seismic shift. Yes.

So I think that might start to change things. I mean, there are thousands more cases being brought now. The effects that this stuff has on how young minds think and conceive themselves, like build self-worth. You know, it was bad enough already with the idea of just like looking in the mirror or looking at reflection or looking at photos. But now when you're just constantly confronted with your own image and like how that can be better, filters, makeup. Like with misogyny, it's like the idea you're not being guided by people who have an actual understanding of community. It's just people who say edgy, like naughty things, which you'd have to go and search for before. Yeah, but do you remember when you first ever used, what made aware of Instagram?

Yes, I was literally in the meeting. I remember it vividly. Go on. And I said no. So this is how crazy technology is, right? The concept of new technology is a latent prison, right? So it will always offer you a freedom immediately. It will go, here's how to make this easier.

And then before you know it, you're trapped within that idea. So if you go back to back in a day, everyone's on horses, walking about, whatever. And then someone's come along and gone, do you want a car? Yeah. And we're like, why? You can get to be quicker. I'm like, okay, I'll get to be quicker. Now cars decide on people walk, right?

So that's like one example. Yeah. So with Instagram, I'm going to being in a meeting, 2013. I was in my record label. Hey, guys, use this thing. You take pictures of your day. You send it to your fans. Great way to keep them entertained.

Me and Harley were literally like absolutely no way. Suspicious. Suspicious. Firstly, no one needed to see what we were doing in our spare time. It was a fucking mess. At that time, yeah. This is what I'm trying to say.

This is why I don't think you get like the, that same kind of celebrity. be messy vibe anymore because of people are so aware of there anyway so so we're like no and then and then the mad thing is they did it for us anyway a team ran our Instagram for us right no no no not against our will just so we didn't have to do anything we'd send them pictures and they just upload them and then now if you go to record label what 10 years later you're only getting seen if you have Instagram followers if you have that no exactly and it's success in one decade one decade it's a tool is an is a tool for you to be able to access your audience 10 years later if you don't have

Instagram you're not going to get signed yeah no 100% that's fucking quick but who's the real devil what do you mean well is it instagram or what we did with it it's tapped into a part of ourselves the ego which has become like too much i don't think the ego was ever meant to be fed like this. The beast is alive. It's like Whitney Houston in that, she does this interview with Diane Sawyer. It's like she's lost her voice. It gets upsetting. She's like, I don't smell crack. And Diane goes, what's the devil? Is it alcohol? Is it marijuana or is it cocaine?

Or is it crack? Or the entertainment industry? And Whitney Houston says, no, the devil is me. No, but that's not true. No, no, no. It is true. The devil was her. It's not the crack. I don't believe that. I really do believe that with addiction. The devil is you. And when it comes to something like social media, when I first, when I first was aware of Instagram,

I was on a bridge with Jimmy Crayon. And he was like, let's take a picture. We're walking down South Bank. Let's take a picture. And then he's like, and then I'm going to put a filter on it and put it on this app thing. And I was like, why? And he was like, because you can kind of be creative.

I thought it was like a creative photo site. And maybe it was, exactly. What made it not? Us. No. Yes. No. It taps into a part of us that is dark and has been fed too much food.

I don't agree. Tell me why. Because I think it's asking like an exceptional amount of people. It's asking the exceptional amount of awareness for the in inverted commas everyday person to engage with. Like to have that level of understanding and willpower. Sure, it exists for sure. But we're being before we can even understand that is within our capability, we're already. engaged in the addiction.

I think that's happened in the last five years. But as you said, it's been quick, right? In the beginning, it could have just been let's share nice photos. But because of who we are and our attention seeking needs, it became more like, actually, what, that guy I fancied to see me. Actually, that bitch from school, I'd quite like her to know I'm doing this. And it evolved with our bad thoughts, I believe. Yeah.

Fair enough. I mean, fair enough, I don't agree because I feel like a lot of the times what's happened with Instagram is that we have been, what I believe, we have been dragged along in a company and a social media company's battle for attention. For example, when Instagram bought in Reels, Instagram users said we don't want Reels, literally. Like, it was actually a public thing.

Why Reels in particular? The CEO of Instagram tweeted, saying, that there is no growth in photo feed. That's not to do with, like, do we want Instagram Reels? We knew that Reels were on TikTok. TikTok. Like video is on TikTok, pictures on Instagram. It was very simple. What he was seeing was that the younger audiences, for example, seemed to be more engaged with TikTok than people were of Instagram. You could, for all intents of purposes, maintain a balance, stay in your

lane, go with the waves, much like vinyl. No one cared about vinyl. Vinyl sales passed a billion dollars in the US or something last year, which is the first time since 1983, which is amazing. testament to stand in a test of time. So people, you can, if you had a more ethical mindset on just providing a service and not always having to provide the most profitable service, then we could have a conversation. I've got a lot of willpower, I think, for an average person,

like I came off drugs on my own, you know, and I stopped various things on my own. But that's not the case for everybody. And also some people are busy. And it takes us a while to realize that this stuff's even happening to us before it's happened, you know? I understand. No, I understand that.

And that's why it is so tricky. and that's why it gets so kind of grey area. It's like, when did this happen versus when did this happen? I think they've all culminated into the health that we live in today. Do you think, here's a question I've got for you, when's the last time you thought you needed something new?

Good question! That hasn't been invented. Good question. When's the last time I thought I needed something new that hasn't been invented? So you're interacting with the world and goes, I wish this would happen. I don't really feel that I do,

unless it was like an incredibly, incredible new milk frother. Right. Because I feel like we're past the point of need. Past the point of need would probably be on point. They create new things

and then the need is created in the fact that we don't have it rather than the fact that I want. Wait, I've got another example for you. Go on. Well, you could lend it to the tobacco industry, of course. We weren't just not told

that cigarettes could kill you. We were told they were good for us. Healthy by doctors. find doctors. And I think it's like not till 1964, there's like a general... Yeah, they put the filters in. That's what mad men's about.

A surgeon general's report suddenly going, oh, we think there might be a link between this and cancer. Yeah, no shit. Yeah, it's mad. Then the marketing starts to change, but they don't, they still don't say this is really bad for you.

They start to tell women, you know, have a fag instead of a sweet, stay thin, feel liberated. So smoking was always sold to us as like about liberation, freedom and I guess like a coolness. You know, when social media started to grow, no, what's the basis of Facebook? Connectivity.

Like we were told it would unite us and make us feel connected. And it's done the opposite. But sometimes things have to play out before you realize how evil they're going to be, if that makes sense. Yes, yes. But I think anything driven by profit will go that way. I think Facebook was born misogynist because obviously Zuckenberg was originally face smash, where he was just comparing the hotness of women on the campus. And the death scroll person, that's savage because they actually that day were just like,

how do I load this page faster? The issue is, and another contention to your point about like where the devil is, is that many of these decisions are made with an incredibly short-term outlook. The frustration, I think, would be from people who would look at something like that and not sit, have a communal meeting immediately, a council meeting with the Facebook like button, a meeting with psychologists and with physicians and with men. health experts. This is starting to drive people crazy. What should we do?

Yes. Is this good to be tapping at this part of the human brain? Probably not. Instead, they're like, how do we keep eyes on the screen? Yeah, how do we keep eyes on the screen? I had a video go viral the other day.

The idea of like what was coming up when I was opening the social media was wild because it's just like you see how many elements of it are there. It's just like these blue ticks and then they tell you who's the most important person who's interactive with your post. And let's be honest, how does it make you feel?

for that one minute, minute, when it's all good and it's all popping off and this word viral's coming up. How do you feel? Can I be honest? Yeah. That last experience of it, I actually was quite concerned because I was more aware of the, again, because I've gone through many versions of this, I was more aware of my compulsion than I was of the reality of it.

You know, like, I've existed in spaces on social media. You know too much. Yeah, yeah, because I've existed in the spaces of being viral, being not viral, being whatever, I've done all the things, right? So it's like, yeah, that is, don't get me wrong. Wouldn't it be buzzing every day if everyone was telling me that this was great every day? But I've had the other, I've had people telling me I'm a piece of shit because I said something done. The roller coaster.

I couldn't even watch TV because I was thinking about it. The only thing, ironically, this is a funny kind of loop. The only thing that kept me off it was reading. So I read loads. Great. Well, there you go. You just sold the world. Yeah, reading was the only thing that kept me off.

The only thing that kept me on my screen was reading a book. Let's all do that then. Let's just all do that. Because I could engage enough of my brain. brain, you know. He needed to be grounded by something fucking real. Yeah. I remember once when I was like, just desperately in need of attention.

And I was on Instagram a lot. And I remember just like going through like, you know, like request, just like people I don't know saying you look buff, you look nice. And I was just like this is so fucking empty. Just like, it's like a bad McDonald's. It just like doesn't touch the sides. Yeah, yeah. But still, we still, we still throw it out there and wait to see what comes back.

I had this conversation. Oh, yeah, good point. Sorry. Sorry, someone from the team just said, the irony is these clips will now go on Instagram and I'll be like, I hope they too well. Yeah. Isn't that stupid?

That is how ridiculous life has become. I don't think it's that stupid. No, it's just that roller coaster. Like, okay, so this will go up. And then I'll be like, I wonder if that clip did all right. Oh, my God, it did great. Five seconds later, I won't feel fed by anything is what I mean. Yeah.

There are ways that that could be combated. I think before we move on, I think to be clear, there are definitely ways that these companies could implement strategies where people wouldn't be so reliant on social media. They already demoed things that's taking away the numbers of likes, right? And then it became like how many comments do you have. They could be rid of all of that.

They could be rid of all comparative numbers. They could be rid of all analytics. Yeah, but the thing is, I'm building business now, and I'm building a business using it. and I need those analytics. Yeah, okay, fine. Annalics can stay then, but you don't have to have

the comparative interaction. I just want to say one more thing because no one ever talks about this. Let's talk about how you feel when something is giving you what it is that you think you're looking for on Instagram, i.e. lots of likes, lots of engagement. How does it make you feel?

How do I feel? I feel seen, validated, attractive, yeah, desirable, all these things that I'm looking for every day. I feel smart. And then five minutes later, I don't. And that's my point with social media.

I agree. Let's have a break. Let's have a break. I think we've just torn social media apart and definitely put it all back together properly and healed the world. So you're fucking welcome. I'll be on it the second this stops recording.

Me too. Me too, John. I've got to film a new video for my words series. It's so wrong. Two truths can exist at the same time. Two truths can exist at the same time. Two truths in the same times would be a great band name. Dive into the bonkers world of David Mitchell and Robert Webb and listen to their BBC comedy show.

From nonsensical maths quiz number wang to finding out what James Bond is really like as a party guest. There's something for everyone. Hello, MOTT AAT. Yes, that's right. This is the Ministry of Things that are apparently true. Yes, we do exist. The rumours are true, ironically. Start listening to that Mitchell and Webb sound,

the complete series 1 to 5, wherever you get your audiobooks. Hey, listen, I just refreshed on my following went up, baby. Instagram for the win. And how do you feel? Yeah, I feel like I'm going to be an absolute star one day. Have we discussed Love Story yet? I know we talked about it on the editorial,

but did you go and watch that for me? No. I'm sorry, we start me and Jada rewatching Dexter. It's a great show. It's a great show. Too gory for me. And I'm not like just into sappy things called Love Story, okay? But this is Ryan Murphy.

Do you know who John F. Kennedy Jr. is? Yeah. Who is he? The son of John F. Kennedy. Correct. Correct. And he was like the prince of New York at this time. And I've been really obsessed with him and his wife for about 10 years, maybe 15,

but it's only because a friend of mine in New York showed me who they were. But now it's just like this huge global story again And it's just tragic story The Kennedy curses no fucking joke But before the tragedy Which I won't say No I mean I think we can say They die in a plane crash

What? Yeah Savage Yeah it's awful because they are hugely public But it's when it goes into a higher overdrive In the 90s of paparazzi stalking people and being outside your house And she, Carolyn Bessett Kennedy who he marries

It works for Calvin Klein She was not a famous person and when I was watching the story, I thought it just be like, yay, love story, and I get to see her clothes because Carolyn Kennedy could fucking dress. Do you watch the Kardashians? I used to, I can't bear it anymore, unfortunately. Okay, cool, just checking in.

So carry on. Just checking in. Just checking in. Good. Thank you. Actually, it's a story about what happens to her when she becomes the most famous person, a famous woman in America in about a year. It's really hard. It's really hardcore. and kind of makes her lose her mind a bit.

Yeah. Yeah. But the great thing about Carolyn Bestick Kennedy is she was mysterious, Jordan, and talking about everything we were saying about social media. I think the reason people have been drawn to this show so much and it's giving people so much and feeding them so much is because it's the 90s.

Yeah. Well, she could afford to be mysterious, like something that we don't put enough value in anymore. Bit of fucking mystery. She doesn't do any, like, interviews. She's only photographed on the street and at events with JFK Jr. looking on point in like Yoji Yamamoto. Like she is, she can really fucking dress. And she just knew who she was.

But you can only hear her speak like five times on the internet. It was quite weird when I heard her the other day. But anyway, the point is, I think you'd love it, but particularly the soundtrack. I'm obsessed with good music on good cinema, TV. Audiovisual relationship is a bit of me that. Well, this is quite interesting because a lot of young people. people are watching Love Stories. So they're hearing like Lenny Kravitz,

it ain't over till it's over for the first time. Yes, yes. People, I think someone even like... Sorry, also, can you please, for 10 points on the gold star, who flipped that? Who flipped that? Oh, oh, what? UK legacy shit. Dda, da, da, da, da.

Yeah, come on. What, so they just took the... I know it, I know it. Mottier. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Keeps. Quite, you know, it's sort of. of not a hugely known debut single for a Mertier. Massive Keats. No, it was massive. Huge single in the UK. But I think people will forget that it was, but either way, that was quite good that I got that.

That was quite good that I got that. But what does she do? She did, she did, um, if I had one chance to live my life again. Yeah, it's, um, I'm a real girl or something. And it's a real girl. This is it. I know exactly who I am.

Watching. And it's the real girl. This is the real one. Also, that's actually a mad parallel though. Great song. If you're saying as that, it's in love story. Mucha, can I say, is one of the more recent examples of the horrendous level that paparazzi can get to. Really?

Sugar Babes were 14 when they started. 14. Yeah. And Mucha, for whatever reasons, like, I guess she went solo first, right? I can't really remember the details. But all I know is, actually, with our producer, Natch, we do. did a little thing once when we interviewed Mutscher, right? I told you, me not have history with wives.

And we interviewed, we interviewed Mutscher for this thing called killing it, right? And it was talking about the pressure of fame. It was heartbreaking keeps. Like what she had to go through, the way they spoke about her in the press, they hammered her in the press because she had like tats and she had piercings and she was like, she didn't conform. Sorry, because she was a real girl. Yes, she didn't conform to what they wanted her to be.

You know, meanwhile, Sugar Babes was continuing on within a pop frame. and it really damaged her. Absolutely. Yeah, so that's why there's that other level as well when we see the girls back together. There's another level, I think, of passion because, firstly, they all sound great. It's wicked to see Chavonne back in the mix, right?

But they know that much is still here. And she's thriving. And thriving. Which is like a dream because a lot of people don't survive that. No, but also, what happened? I'm so happy. She should too as well, but I'm just saying,

like, you know, all of them would have gone through it, but much I remember specifically was like really, and she had, you know, it led to her having difficulties with addiction. 100% the story of the show. is a story of kind of reclaiming your shit and your power and your story. And they're releasing bangers, bro. Yeah.

Say less. Shut up. Fucking lute. Gonna get myself connected. Well, this is the thing about love story. It's like, I know stereo emcees get connected. That's because I'm a bad man. Not everyone does.

Right. I hear you. Not everyone was that tune. And then I read this interview that Nat, wonderful producer Natalie, sent to me from the Hollywood Reporter, which was with the Will the woman who did the soundtrack for Love Story and she's like, listen, I was getting this right. She's like, I wasn't

just like playing now 90s hits, she like gets into it. She has to send a handwritten letter to Bjork saying like, you're my life, I grew up with you please, can we have this music? That's what I wanted to do if I didn't become a musician by the way to be a musical supervisor. It's actually one of my dreams. I've even tried to do it

as a side hustle. That's such a great job. Yeah, I know. There are times where it is literally the make or break of a show. Totally. I mean, like, whoever musically supervised stranger things, Kate Bush is fucking buzzing, isn't she? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you have, or I remember, this is going to be so niche,

but I'm going to say it. How nichey? I remember when I was a teenager and I didn't know I was going to end up in music, and I loved the combination of music and, like, for example, a Rizzle Kick song last year, Follow Excitement was the first song they played in the new Premier League season on Match of the Day,

and it was one of the best moments because us watching football being played to follow excitement, and unreal. So this is mad. Holly Oaks, yeah. Like, back in the day, used to have a musical supervisor that I was like,

what, this is, there was one storyline who killed Claire is the peak of Holy Oaks. I don't care who wants to fight me. And like, this person was dropping like, what, like nine inch nails? Massive attack. Stop.

Stop. On a soap. Say less. On Holyoaks. But then Luther came out as well. And Luther, in the first season, there's one, oh my God, there's one episode,

everyone will know who's a Luther fan, where he realizes something, and he runs through the streets in the rain, right? And they play, um, Sia. What's the tune? Breathe, breathe me. Oh, yes. It's the Sia song called Breathe Me from like old school.

And also the theme tune to Luther, Paradise Circus, Massive Attack, incredible. Is that what it is? Go on. When you get these things right, it's forever. Madman, theme tune, RJD2, incredible producer, mesmerized by that. It's the, yeah, I get very excited. It's almost as important to me as the visuals, unless there's a conscious choice to not have it. evidently it's very important to you, but I think even the people...

The wire, sopranos. Even the people that think it's not important to them aren't thinking about how much music drives something. Do you know what I mean? How much it leads something? Like the way get connected comes into Love Story is he's like, I'm taking you out, I'm outside your house, and she's like, shit, let's go. And then it's like, boom, I'm going to get myself as they're on the water.

Oh, it's the best feeling when they're nail it. That's it. On the beat. Do you know what? Scoring, Jordan, I really see that for you in like your 40. So I'd done it. I did the musical supervision on this indie film I was in called Tucked.

And that experience was incredible. And it was because I had so many amazing friends that I was asking for favors. We had no money for budget. In fact, I think I put my money into the budget for musical supervision because I loved that feeling so much of nailing the feeling. And there was some incredible moments in it.

There was actually one moment where the director was like a huge Robbie Williams fan. And I remember that Robbie had emailed us a few times before I'd done this film. And so I just tried. I went like, look, mate, I'm doing this film. This guy's a massive fan. If you can give him like an exclusive anything.

And he did. He sent a song that hadn't been released. And I played it to this director. And he literally was like in, he couldn't even wrap his head around. And then he put it in the film. It's amazing. He did put it in the film. Yeah, yeah.

I've done it before as well when I've just put people onto certain artists because these moments can make or break artists. And I did it once before. I just the feeling of putting the music, I can't describe it. It's just so. No, I hear you. Oh, I love it. But do you know what?

I think it's where magic. steps in because whenever ever I've been in an edit and I fucking love an edit. When we've gone, should we try that tune? Put it over it. And when the tune just hits every frame perfectly, like sometimes it's bigger than you. I'm not joking. It's literally like, thanks God. Thank you, God.

Like I did it with, yeah. All right, so Dino's saying that he was watching Sean of the Sheep and you're the song of it. The soundtrack. Oh, no, Rizzle kicks are the soundtrack. Oh, excuse me. Let's fucking go. Hey, listen. Dun dun dun dun.

What do you know about Sean the Sheep? Rizzle kicks featuring Vic Reeves. You know that you're just out here changing children's lives. That's amazing. I've said proudly, find the interviews, bro. Roll the tapes. I've said proud of what's your best moments?

Working with Arben on Sean a sheep soundtrack. No one can chat to me, bro. I literally do a rap here in it. I go, what do you know about Sean the sheep? Peep's hang on the words you bleats, right? Best in a herd, bet that you heard. Count on him but don't fall asleep. You can't even make that lyric about anything other than a sheep.

That's great. Count on him, but don't fall asleep. The right person was called. The right thinker was put on the job. job. He even goes, B'Et. Sometimes,

sometimes, sometimes in shows, yeah, people bring Sean the Sheet. No. Real, real, real fans, no, bro. Five and a half million views on YouTube that song. When Wallace and Gromit

were getting attacked by a robot dog in my childhood, yeah, Sean bused through the window in a fucking plane and saved their asses, boss. Okay. I have to thank Sean

eternally for that. I would argue, I want people to message in, is there anything more British than us doing the Sean the Sheep soundtrack? I would like your entrance, please. Well, I suppose Bowie could have done it.

That would be quite British. Fair enough. Go on it. Do you know what's funny as well? Oh yeah, Vic Reeves is good. I call it. He's Jim, right? There's an artist.

He's called Jim. He's very kind. But anyway, I saw him and I was like, hey, we did a song together. He went, did a B? Yeah, Sean and a shoot. He went, all right. Cool. So someone just sent him that, and he just laid it down and paid no mind.

So can I say, as a side note, I can tell you that this is niche knowledge. They didn't want us to do anything different with the music. And I said to them vehemently, don't let us make this into a Beastie Boys'esque rock smasher, I'm not doing it. And then they came. And then you get what we've got. And it's based on the soundtrack. You get what we've got.

Yeah. And it's based on the soundtrack of Ace Ventura 1, which we can't talk about because it's unbelievably transphobic. But basically at the end of the film, it goes, hey, Tom, why does you put those size 16s on and kick it with the homies? And then it goes, bim. And then it's some... Bambah. Yeah, you're right. I just want to send a last minute shout to all my Sean the Sheet people.

What do you know about Sean the Sheet? What do you know about Sean the sheep? Okay, bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Perse of Onica production for BBC Sounds. Ever wondered what's really going on behind the biggest celebrity scandals. From Justin Baldoni versus Blake lively to Kim Kardashian's sex tape lawsuit to Brigitte McCrottin' sex tape lawsuit to Brigitte McRohn fighting claims she was born a man.

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