Miss Me? - The Rejection Olympics

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens share their gig reviews of Lily’s West End Girl and Harry Styles’ residency at Wembley, plus is ghosting the new rejection olympics?On socials @missme.4evaProducer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Danny PapeAssistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Video Editor: Danny PapeProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Ellie Clifford & Dino SofosMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

These lot at Oxford, they were on smoke. They moshed to Mama Do the Hump. I don't think I've ever seen it in my life. Moshed to Mama do the Hump. Moshed, Miquita. They were vibing out. I've ghosted. Phoebe calls it the Rejection Olympics, which I really like.

Lily has done this extraordinary thing of being a really modern version of herself as a pop star today. Yes. And it makes total sense. Someone was saying, oh, but it's like Hedder. And she's like, but it's not Hedder because it's my actual life. So it's almost like she's playing the Lily Allen play. I know. This isn't just about her taking external validation.

This is about her being able to receive all that she has done, using her pain for power for others. Welcome to miss me. I look like a pony. A beautiful way of putting this. I mean, are we in crisis? Or are we okay? Listen, hold on, hold on.

Is this a thing? Because you're not the first. Listen, so this is the logic, yeah. This is the three reasons. For those listening, my hair's blonde, I've dyed my head blonde. Right of passage, some may say. Three reasons. Firstly, I'm 34.

Not that long left for me to be able to get away with my hair blonde. I don't think personally, because then it is 100% the kind of crack in it. Respectfully, unless you've been doing it your whole life, you know. Two, because I went to Brazil, if you know, you know. Three, there's no rules, bro. There's no rules. You said to me yesterday, my hair feels racist. That's the other reason as well.

Because I'm trying to break all rules, bro. I'm trying to like, I'm trying to get in. I'm trying to snake into like, you know what I mean? They'll be like, oh, blonde. Oh, it's black. Yeah. Also, I actually, in all seriousness, blond's all over the world, man. Like, my hair would actually naturally go blonde in the sun anyway.

You're very lucky. You've got a lovely face. So you can do something like this and it's all right. Some people would look fucking awful with bleach blonde. hair like this, but you really don't. It actually really works with your tan. Oh, that's very nice of you, Keith. I just wanted, I wanted a change and I was prepared to deal with the consequence. I wasn't actually very confident that it would look good, but I just knew that I wanted something that would just be like, there. And now, like, loads of clothes

will be different now, which is fascinating. It's basically like a rejig for your whole wardrobe. Also, I've managed to match my bed sheets, which... Is that your bedding? Yeah. Like, that pattern? What is that pattern? Fruit. No, it's called a catcher something and it catches one of my favourite plants. Oh, it's a plant. Okay, so you specifically chose this bedings. No, it's like, yeah, I like the colours.

I like the colours. It's like they're like faded pinks and yellows. It's nice. But I didn't realise my hair would match it like when I bought it. Right. I really like coloured bedsheets. I realised this the other day. I only have shades of blue, pink or purple.

Okay, so you like the my choice of bedchets or no? That's too light and yellow. for me. I like rich, jewel-like tones. You know, no, no, listen, I totally understand that too. It goes with the room, if you could, I can't show you, but it's like the tones of the room, it's nice. And also, I catcher, I like the Acacia plant,

many different versions of a catcher. And I was literally just, that was pretty much it, the title of the bedding. I love that plant, let me buy it. I don't know, you could buy bedding that was named after plants, that's quite up my street. Well, it's just a style or like, Acacchia's honey as well.

Like a catcher honey is really good for you. I have a catcher honey. Okay, I'm with you now. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I have the honey, you have the sheets. What a fucking week and weekend. Oh, sorry, I missed the family thing on Saturday because I was performing. You didn't just miss it.

You gazed my text. Because Arthur had already invited me and I said I couldn't go. It was a real, real poor lack of communication between the two of you. I'll just be real. Right, okay, actually. Poor lack of communication between our side of the family. Yeah, literally the ones running. Okay, I think you could have at least liked the message, but that's fine.

I didn't like it because it reminded me I couldn't go. Oh, you wanted to come, but you had to perform. Of course I did. Well, Andy Cooking. Listen, prov. It wasn't just Andy cooking. My parents are so nuts. This is the first year in a long time that there's no Glastonbury, right?

There's a fallow Glastonbury year. We all, we're all... Long time, is it just four years? Yeah, but like, still, like, it's like, you know... Yeah, a fellow year, no, you're right, a fellow year is... It doesn't happen that often, but we've got another fallow year. And I was really looking forward to my family who are heavily, heavily affiliated with Glastonbury, because through my dad...

Oh my God, Garf literally runs Shangri-La, bro. And Gorilla Bar, and has for, like, I think, 20 years now, Jesus. Yeah, he needs to chill. So, well, quite. He literally does not... That man does not... sleep for the whole of Glastonbury. It's ridiculous. But he does get his saunas in at Glastonbury.

Naked sores. He's got a whole naked sauna routine. I bet he does. The freedom of Garth. The freedom of Garth. And so I thought, oh good. One summer where we won't even mention Glastonbury, no, no. My family decides to throw Glastonbury at their fucking

house. I mean... What? The actual fuck. Do you say, when you say throw Glastonbury, I feel... You're not ready. I get there. Garfield's... made the front garden, he's taken all of the objects out of the sitting room, put them in the front garden.

So like sofas, tables, lights in our front garden, it looked like a squat party. I was like, is this necessary? And then in the back, there was like, I mean, it was beautiful. The garden had like maybe 50 people in it. And then 70 more people were coming for the rave. Okay? It was a mini-glastonbury. And it was for our friends, Jamie Winston and her husband, James Sutling and all their

Glastonbury family. It was fucking Glastonbury. But I only went for a few hours because I also had my best friend, Seb's 40th in Soho. Did anyone camp? I think falling asleep fucked up in my parents' bathroom, does that count? Oh, that's near it. That's near it. Don't worry. You should have stuck a tent out there, man. Then I would, then I'd be okay with the Glastonbury comparison. There was a shoddy little fire pit. A stone circle, if you will. Yeah, there was a stone circle. And then I, yeah, I was in Soho on a Friday night after the England game. Wow, that was intense. That was a Saturday night. Yes, Saturday night. And that was intense because my beautiful best friend in the world, Sebastian Bailey turned 40.

And that was great. That was a really beautiful party. And then on Sunday I went to see Lily at the 02. So I don't want to talk to anyone for a while. I'm a bit over socialised. I can't remember what happened with the England game. We won 2-0. That's good. That was a good one. Yeah, yeah. Garner was a bit awful. We, where did I watch that? I watched that in Oxford. We performed at, so we've, I've had three Rizzle Kicks gigs in the last week. One was, God.

One was at So, White City House. Oh, easy peasy. One was at, I can't pronounce the name of it, but it's one of the, one of the Oxford University, like, houses. Maudlin Ball. Maudlin Ball. Hang on, hang on, hang on. I was at Hogwarts, bro. Yeah, exactly.

Was that like their like summer ball? You know what? I don't know. Like the university summer ball. Because I just always assume that like they're graduating. And I think I might have even commented on that. And I don't realize afterwards they're definitely not. They're just at uni. I think it might be.

Yeah. I think they need to graduate in a month. Can I say respectfully, yeah. They were fucking incredible as a crowd. Really? We did a ball recently yet and we clocked that. We had done the same ball 12 years ago. So the people were performing to,

were six when we last performed that exact ball, right? That was recently. And it kind of, the vibes were like, yeah, they knew a couple bits, especially the TikTok ones, like follow excitement and skip to the good bit. But these lot at Oxford, they're a bit older, I reckon, they're definitely are a bit older. They were on smoke.

Like, it was actually, they moshed to Mama do the hump. I don't think I've ever seen it in my life. Moshed to Mama do the hump. Moshed, Makita. They were vibed out. Fucking hell. Yeah, I got everyone to gun fingers, which was just like a private joke for myself.

Stop, not gun fingers at Oxford unit. It was just for myself that just, I felt good. Also, you know, I don't know what's been going on with the new, you know, like open application process, but it felt pretty diverse. But listen, Oxford is stepping its game up, bro. Like I'm, I'm vibing out. There was some cool people, but I did feel like I was. Old.

At Hogwarts. Did you feel old? I actually didn't feel that old. No, because even the teachers came and raved. Yeah, that's because they're probably a Rizzle kicks fans and they're probably your age. True. But that's my point. That's what I would think.

But these lot were singing every word. They were ready to go. Yeah, to the whole set. So, do you know, if I had like 17 lives, there's a few different things I'd do, and one of them would definitely be smart enough to have gone to somewhere like Oxford or Cambridge, really lived that life? Listen, I didn't go to uni at all, neither to you, obviously. I would have studied history and I would have, like, been, had a boyfriend and had like a calm, nice.

You had a boyfriend at Oxford. Yeah, go out with like a tour. No, no, it's not how it works there, man. They're fucking lunatics. You think at Oxford people are like traditionalists, like walking hand in hand, swinging. I've watched the riot club. I get it. There was one girl on stage, yeah, who was like, we came on and she was asleep on the barrier.

It was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life. So the whole crowd were going nuts and she was just on the barrier. Like this. And I went over to her face and she went, It's just like, and I went, you're asleep, but this is going to be a great dream. That was good. Anyway, to your point, yeah, I did a, I don't know if I've ever told you the story, but last year, I think, or the year before last, I got invited to do a debate at Cambridge.

Did I tell you about this? No, but mum just went and did something like that at Oxford. Okay, so I didn't know that in Uniland, a debate isn't the same as what I thought a debate was. This is exactly what happened, okay? Cambridge hit me up and they say, we're doing a debate about, about masculinity, right? So I was like, okay, say less. Cambridge, amazing.

I'm there, right? So I rock up on, I don't know, like a Wednesday afternoon or some shit, and I jump out the car and this guy greets me in black tie, right? Be it in a cardigan, a little t-shirt, like, I'm wearing a cap, I don't know what the fuck, right? So I'm like, dude. You thought it was a standard panel discussion.

Dude, I'm like, why have I missed the memo? Why have I, oh no, no, it's, you know, we have a formal dinner before, but it's fine, you're not expected to, to do it? And I'm like, okay, what in the, fuck it? Like, do I'm saying? Like, what in the get out? Yeah, what in the name of get out is going on here? So, so I'm, I go into the fucking banquet, right?

Everyone there is black tie, like, formal, where I'm in there in my cardia. And I'm going, I have not read this email. I literally thought I was just turning up to some students. They're all eating this three-course meal, right? This is one thing that I remember, though, is I remember thinking when I'm speaking to these people, that I was like, when I was 18, I remember the idea of me going, Oxford of Cambridge was like the most like, oh my God, a dream. I wish I was that intelligent. And then obviously because I'm older, just trying to these kids. I'm like, definitely.

What, smart enough? Well, yes, obviously. I was like 32. I was just funny to actually speak to them and be like, I mean, I would have been a real idiot back then. But like now I can comfortably I can't comfortably talk to an Oxford game. Yeah, it took 10 years. Comfortably. I was like, right, I can't believe I used to be intimidated by you guys. But anyway. And then in the conversation, one of of them's like, oh my god, there's been, I want to do the voice, so it's bad. No, don't. They're like, oh my God, there's been so many, there's been so many crazy situations that happened at debates, like this one time, yeah, like, I like forgot to, to write my speech and then like, oh, mad, what speech? And I was like, oh, no, you know, you're the speech that you're going to do. And I was like, what speech? And they were like, ah ha ha ha. And I was like, no, I actually don't know what you're talking about. What

speech? And I went, well, that's, that's what the debate is. You guys all, you have 10 minutes speeches and then you deliver them to the room. And I'm I was like, what? 10 minutes. 10 minutes. But luckily, it's a subject you talk about all day, every day. So you got that, surely. One professor flew from America for this debate.

Wow, right. And you hadn't even fucking prepared. I turned up and I freestyled. I freestiled eight and a half minutes of this speech. Anyway, we won the debate. It was fun. Oh my God, you won. Well done.

We were kind of all in agreement. It was bizarre. But also, they don't. even say yes or no, they say eyes and knows as like to vote for who want to debate. And also, because I was freestiling it, right, there's another rule in this debate, which I didn't know, where if you're talking and someone doesn't agree with what you're saying, they can put their hands up and go, I think it's like point of something. Like, they can say like, is that an objection, but they can say there's a phrase for it. It's point of something,

point of interest or something. Maybe it's what they do on radio for. If you're the debater, you go, sit down. You can just say sit down, as in like I'm not answering it. Which is like saying sustained. Yeah, yeah, like don't, I'm not into it, right? But it can obviously help you if you do it and then you, I desperately wanted someone to stand up and do a fucking thing so I could yeah, yeah. No one said shit, no one stood up. Anyway, okay, I really want to be part of, I really want to be part of this world. How do I get in? How do I get in? I don't know, mate, but make, when you read the email, when you get the email, read it. Because I just was like, yeah, right, and I just turned up. But anyway, we won, why was I saying this? Oh yes, that's my show.

I did Oxford uni and it was like being at Hogwarts, yeah. But you did go see Harry. Harry was in the week. Yeah. Our uncle Charlie Condu has a daughter called Georgia and he texts me saying, George is dying to see Harry. Can you get her in? I was like, no, I have no connection to Harry.

And I think I've cussed him a bit. I'll miss me recently. I'm not going to ask him for shit. But Charlie is the person who took me to the Lion King premiere when I was 10 and I never forget that. So I was like, let me ask George. And you fucking hooked it up. I could not believe it. I'll be real.

That was some family, team family work. You know what's mad as well is I actually tried to not text Harry because I was like, you know, he must be getting inundated. So I had a couple of links, management wise. And then they basically were like, you could really just cut this out by texting Harry. And so I did. And he just like, I was like, yeah, sure. Sure, Royal Box.

And then he put us in a Royal Box. Yeah, it was crazy. Crazy. Oh my God, Georgia must have been so gassed. I'm so happy. Mate, they were over the moon. It was so sweet. I think I was sat behind his mum and dad, you know.

It's not very, like, super exclusive. It's just like a cool place to be where you obviously have some link to someone who's working on something and it's like, it is a nice energy. It's really cool. I wonder if his parents are still proud. I mean, of course they're still proud, but I wonder if they're still excited. A hundred percent. Listen.

Well, Wembley Stadium, 12 nights. Yeah, that would do it. That would excite. 26 Madison Square Gardens was it? that he's done. Jesus. Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

From the bakery to this, gone. Harry Sal's life is just a fucking dream. But can I say, though, I know we did talk a lot about him, so I'm going to try to limit this because, obviously, you know, whatever. But can I just say this? It's very hard to play Wembley Stadium, right? Like, to play a stadium generally, it's hard. Okay, I saw, like, Beyonce there a couple years ago,

and I don't think I'll ever see a pop star pull out more stops than Beyonce. And I still haven't, by the way. I'm not about to say that about Harry. But it was like, okay, to do a stadium show, you've got to do some mad shit. I saw Kendrick. I'm a Kendrick stand, so I loved it anyway. But like, you know, could have done more maybe. I don't know.

But I love Kendrick. Harry, the stage design, the way he covered the stage, the way he put the band, which was like so, I was so into that vibe because I'd just gone to Brazil and in Brazil, they have these sambon nights and the bands in the middle and everyone's around in a circle. And for a large part of the set, Harry had the band in the middle of this huge stage. And I just think like you just have to respect that he's not tried to cut any corners. Obviously he's cut a corner in the fact that he's doing residencies instead of touring. But I feel he makes up for that because there's like the light show is incredible.

There's fucking fireworks. There's a band. There's an orchestra. There's like. Is there an orchestra? Yes. For the final part of the set. Like it's and he, you know, he fucking covers that stage.

It was genuinely. And let's not forget, this is someone who has played huge, huge arenas. stadiums, whatever, since he was 16, but with four other boys with him. He's had to learn how to like take up this space on his own, be the star, the spotlight, on you. And I feel like he's like playing and having a fucking good time now. Yes, he is. And also I, the thing that I get excited about is when sometimes with artists I love,

and it's mad to, anyway, but with us I love, like, I'll lean into a particular part of their record and then there'll be this very rarely, the artist will reflect back. what I've picked up on, which is really rare. So for example, when I saw Kendrick at Glastonbury, which one of my favorite shows ever, he played the song called Savior of Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers, which is my favorite album.

But he played that song because he said it was his favorite song. And that was my favorite song of the album. So that like blew my mind, right? With Harry, the last album bookends is Aperture at the start and then Carla's song at the end. And they're kind of like brother and sister and they're great songs. There's very much the style on that album that I like.

And he did this. I almost went for a P. And then he starts talking after this little, after this bit he did. And I have to say, Keith, like, genuinely, what he said, like, it genuinely touched me. This is why I fuck with Harry generally, like, when we'd been speaking more recently. He basically said, before he made that record, he had got himself to a point where he had said no so much to things, to doing things, that he'd kind of ended up self-isolating, right? And then he had this year off where he did nothing, like absolutely nothing.

And he said that he had found himself actually stuck in this kind of no, this like prison of nose. The prison of no. And so he then decided to start saying yes. And one of the things he said yes to you were a group of friends of his said, you should come out and dance with us. So he went through this whole series of going out and dancing with strangers, right? Not trying to bring it back up again, but one of those places was Burgain.

And he went there a lot. He literally went there loads. I got DMs after our last one per se and I literally walked home of it. of Harry from my friend. But this is amazing that that's what he did. He went, I need to be free and dance as like an actual like act of rebelling against the no. Against the no.

He said, if you are stuck in a rut in your life, I would strongly recommend going out and dancing. You don't even have to be with your friends. Friends is great, but you can just go out on your own and dance with strangers. Oh my God. And then he played Aperture and Carla song back to back and it was like, that's just the shit for me. That's, that's my vibe. I'm going to take Harry's advice because I'm sorry, there's this R&B-19. night in like Henden that no one will come to me.

Yeah, do it, just go. And I'm like, let's just go on my own and like rock out to Jodacy. No one will go with me, so I'll go on my own. Take his advice, just rock up, man, and bustle wine. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Look on wine. You know, can I say just before we move on?

I can't hear Hendam without remembering that. When I was a kid, my mum, we were listening to the radio, the radio and there was a competition on the radio to do the best London like London Town film pun so like change a film title based off of places in London

and the winner was Croutchen tiger hend and dragon fucking hell that's good That's really good Oh my God Say it one more time Croutchend tiger

hend and dragon It's so good Now that No excuse me Jordan that's a game That's a game, bro. That's quite a good game. It's a good game.

Because I'm trying to find some games for us to play in our Patreon world that would actually interest other people to listen to us play. No, that one's good. We decided Domino's is too far, but that could be quite good. That one, that. I'm so proud of all of our friends, God, aren't it? God, isn't everyone doing well? Oh, so Lily, yeah.

So at the O2. It was like fucking overwhelming. Really? Just because it's just like, how fuck is this the story? Not Lily had a divorce and was heartbroken and we're still. And we're still dealing with the pieces. Yeah. How many people's the O2 by the way?

Like 18,000. Right. So like 20,000 people screaming, what a fucking line, line, line. Yeah, I saw that clip. That's my favourite bit as well. The response of what a fucking line is so good because the line. If it has to happen, baby, do you want to know? Fuck you.

What a fucking line. fucking line. Fuck you. Firstly, what a horrendous placement of the term baby. My point, exactly. It already makes me feel a bit icky, just generally.

I don't mean to slight anybody who calls their partner baby. But to call your partner baby in the context of if it has to happen, baby, do you want to know? Fuck off. Also, it has to happen

is actually so crazy. Do you know what I'm saying? That line is fucked. This is the kind of male behaviour that fucks us as a community. Like, as a consciousness. It's a really, It's like a big trigger for me.

Because because the other thing that these guys are fucked with, yeah, is that they then resort, and I mean that, to non-monogamy as a means of like some alleviation of responsibility. It's like, listen, I just don't get this. That fucks me off for two reasons. One, there are legitimate unconventional ways to have a relationship where there's whole scenes that have like real hardened ethics and like, to just throw out non-monogamy in the context of somebody not being able to have a conversation is annoying

because it undermines that whole community. And secondly, you've made an agreement, right? So, like, you can't cheat on someone and then say, oh, I'm non-monogamous. You have to go, damn, I really want to sleep with all these people. I should talk to my partner about this. And then you talk. Right. And the effect that that confusion, deceitful behaviour has on said partner is West End girl.

Yeah. And that's why she's a fucking G. Well, people screaming fuck David as well, because that was like some cult shit going on when I was at... Yeah. There was a lot of that. It was like that. Poor fucking guy.

Yeah, and at the beginning, the all... Sorry. You're like, yeah. It was also truly overwhelming the beginning bit with the orchestra. I didn't see that bit before when she plays the hits. Then playing smile, but orchestra with an orchestra. and the looks on people's faces to hear those songs again, but in this way, I thought, very clever little, very clever.

Yeah, also, that's a bit of you because she's got an issue being, I want to perform again, but I don't want to perform my old songs. Or I don't want to perform it in this set because I want the focus to be on this story, which is a theatre piece. And so she's gone, how can I do that? And that's the answer. And that's really cool. And what a fucking artist she is to go, what is the way to do this?

To give people this. Which is the way to do it? You just got a fucking rate that shit. Actually, I asked Nat to get a clip because, you know, this is also overwhelming because and every miss me listener will understand this. Lily never thought she'd make another album, never mind tour again. And she'd never thought she'd be on stage. And her fear was to be on stage singing all these old songs and sort of like having that kind

of like trying to revive yourself by your back catalogue. And what's even more powerful about the show, West End Girls show, is that it is just these new songs that already have this like huge iconic presence in people's lives and already like made real impact. I literally have experience of both of those things. It's bizarre. Yes. Let's hear Lil say it. Yeah, yeah, go on. I do think maybe there is a conversation to be had about doing a 20, 20 year anniversary tour of, um, of, um, of all right still. But I just can't, I can't even imagine though. Like, I just, that person singing those songs is like a relative child.

And I just can't imagine being a 40-year-old woman and standing up on stage, like, singing those songs with any conviction. I mean, what you're chatting about? What would you say to the stones? No, I know, but, like, I just, like, my voice is different, like, riding through the city on my bike all day, because the Philth took away my license. Like, I just can't want...

I just can't even imagine it. Okay, I get your point. I might be able to... I think I could probably... possibly connect with It's Not Me, it's You, which was my second album, a bit more than I can with my first. Yeah, and that gives you a few more years, doesn't it? To prepare for the 20th anniversary. I'll be 45.

45 is an absolutely realistic age to come back and be like, let me just remind you of all the shit that I did. That's totally fine. That makes a lot of sense. But what would you do about marketing yourself in this? I've had the facelift by then. I'll have the facelift, the boob job, the bum lift. complete facial reconstruction, you monster before you can come out on stage. I mean, I think you could do it tomorrow if you fancied. Yeah, I mean, okay, what's the lesson here?

Well, the lesson is, dream big. You never know where life will take you. And Lily did have a boo job, which she's talked about openly. So maybe if you feel like you need a little extra, a little extra, pick me up to get back on the stage. You fucking do you. Her body look good. Poof.

Fuck, she looks good. at the moment, wow. It's interesting because me and Harley joke about that a lot because there's a line and down with a trumpets which in my second verse where I say, in fact, my second verse is, how much sound from the brass to the air will it take to put your bras in the air?

Incredible. So that was definitely me channeling my literally 16 year old self. Like just lost my virginity. Barsnia, pardon me there, just don't pretend that if I wasn't, if I wasn't older, you wouldn't want to dance with me, yeah. I'm the last of my, you're the last of my fears. top boy of the class of my year. Well, not really, but I was halfway there and I could have been

the headmaster. So, yeah, Keats, I could be the headmaster now. You cocky little shit. Is that the lyric? Keith, I was 16, 17. Like, I was, I had no, of course it was a lyric. The chorus is, yeah, yeah, let's get down with the trumpets. I literally, I think at Oxford, where was it where I introduced it as, like, it's time for me to, like, have you ever heard anything more profound and existential than get down with the trumpets? Like, literally as, are there any, are there any English teachers in the room? because I just want you to deep, like, the philosophical undertones of this chorus. Obviously, you and Harley are putting out new material, but you are singing older songs. Yeah, yeah, so that's what I'm saying, got Blender the Two.

So we have that and then we put out this song last year, Rachel Chenoriri called Follow Excitement, and we got a song at a moment called Live in the Dream. People don't even know the living a dream, but it just goes off. You'll understand when you hear it, like, it's, it just goes off. It's impossible to not dance to, it's actually amazing. But Follow excitement was like a viral, was like the number one viral song on TikTok last year. Does that mean it did well? Yeah, so we play this song that we released last year.

Yeah, yeah, it's literally one of our biggest songs. But like we released it last year, so we have the thing of, yeah, we got the old tunes, but we got this new rhythm and it's like that, and I will be honest in saying that that feeling was like, wow, that is, there is something where you're like, I went back to something almost a decade later and was able to make that same connection to, to all kinds of ages. So like that. That's where power really lies, babes.

So that was kind of a vibe. But I personally, I'm in a place now. where I like playing the old music because there was a long time where I felt almost triggered by it. So now I actually really revel in like, motherfucker, I made this song or we made this song. Trumpets, literally, I've said this before, but I bought the beat down with the trumpets for 50 pounds in Whitechapel, right, off this guy, Dagnabit. And I'm there 20 years later playing this shit. No, I didn't know that. Three beats for 150 actually. I got a, I got a anniversary through a music competition that I entered, I got 500 quid.

I bought three beats off Dagnamet. And then I bought an iPod, but one of these beats was down with the trumpets, made that song. And now it's still our biggest song. And I was a teenager. And I love that now. I love that. I love that I did that.

I love that something so small can turn into something so big. And something that becomes such a huge part of one's life. And actually that's what Phoebs and I was saying, because we went like, all the family went to little. It was me, Phoebe, Alfie, Theo. Both Phoebe's kids came, Roland and Leo. Fuck, yeah. My friend Maddie came.

And it was, and Alison was there, obviously, Lil's mum and uncles and aunties and stuff. And Laura, Laura went. Yeah, I got your manager tickets, you're welcome. No, I got her tickets, but no, I got them. I text Wells. Yeah, yeah, but I also, you didn't tell me that. So then I went and got them off Lil. Oh.

And then we double got them. And you put it on the wrong day anyway. Oh, that fucked up. Sorry about that. Wow. But Laura sent me loads of videos and cried. It was amazing. And do you know what?

We were saying, like, Lily has done this extraordinary thing of being a really modern version of herself as a pop star today. And it makes total sense. Total sense. It doesn't look like she's chasing, trying to grab, trying to run after anything. She is still Lily Allen. But what Lily Allen has, honestly, a superstar looks like today. But we said this before, though. She's got a lineage she's stepping back into.

That's what I feel a little bit with Rivenkicks. Not to the same extent because obviously Lil's like a superstar. But there were loads of little lils, you know. And so you can just step back in and be like, yeah, I'm on this wave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that a little bit with some of the rap. She was talking to me like in the afternoon before the show.

So she'd already done the Saturday night. And I was like, how you think now you're doing like the O2 shows? And she was like, well, there's this kind of like detachment that she's got to have because of the lack of breaking the fourth wall in the performance. You know, Lily in the old days was quite chatty, quite chatty after a few strong bows. And that was part of her live energy.

She doesn't speak to the audience at all. She's in this bubble. God, the art direction's fucking extraordinary. It's like an editorial live. It's like a pop magazine or like ID editorial, but moving and 3D. And the colors and just by the time she got in this swing that looked like a cloud, I was like, this is fucking extraordinary. Yeah, yeah, dope.

But yeah, she was saying that she can't break it. So she's trying her best to like enjoy. and like receive, I suppose is the word, receive this love, because essentially this is the biggest she's ever been and the biggest moment in her career. But it's kind of a weird dance because she's having to return to this place that wasn't that long ago, still very painful, but also has nothing to do with where she is in her life now, which I think is very confusing. It is very confusing.

I was actually concerned about that initially. However, my only parallel I can make to that is my book, actually, where I've gone and talked about the lowest point of my life and also the effect that had on other people's lives for two and a half years now. And it gets to a point where it's almost like there's a healthy, I think, level of detachment where it almost becomes cartoonish, not to talk about in its authenticity, but in how I process it. So it's almost like I'm watching a film that I'm in, you know,

and I'm describing it. But that's exactly it. Look at Lily's show. It looks like a cartoon. Yeah, yeah. It literally does. And that will help. A fantastic editorial art directed cartoon, but yeah, it will help.

And also, I think it genuinely helps the process in a weird way. I mean, Laura was just saying she can't believe it because obviously the end of it. It's like so, I mean, Lil, obviously, she's a legit actor too. So she is really going through it and it's hard to not think, like, how are you doing it every night? But I mean, she has literally done that every night for other shows too. It just happens to be her life. Yeah, that's it.

She said people, someone was saying, oh, but it's like header. And she's like, but it's not header because it's my actual life. So it's almost like she's playing the Lily Allen play. I know. But she is also having a fucking great time. And I could see her at the end receiving because you can't really stand on that fucking stage at the O2 and not receive that. It was, oh. But that is also really hard.

That's one of the hardest things, one of the hardest spiritual parts. is to not lean into admiration. But you gotta let it in a bit. It's hard, by the way, because I'm a sucker for external validation. Jesus Christ. No, absolutely, but the thing is with what Lil's been through and everything, and also that clip that we just saw, this isn't just about her taking external validation,

this is about her being able to receive all that she has done for so many people for so long, using her pain for power for others. That was actually on one of my emotional trauma retreats, and that was the thing I found the hardest. I had to sit in the room and everyone was around in a circle and they all just said nice things. And I hated it. Yeah, I would have found that hard too.

This is a, again, complex situation. But look, like Rudyard Kipling, not great because he wrote White Man's Burden, but my grandmother, my Caribbean grandmother loved the poem If, and I will say that it is legit. Will you quote it for us now, please, your favourite bit? Obviously, this is gendered, unfortunately, is of the time. Same with the racism. But if you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with kings, nor long. lose the common touch. If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, if all men count with you,

but none too much. That's that whole thing of like, like this is how I interpret it, right? In something like praise, we go, fucking lap that shit up. Yeah, lap it up, but to a degree and realize that it still isn't you, you know, you still have to move. Absolutely. This is what Dondra West says to Kanye in that brilliant Netflix documentary that his friend made about him, that's, what's it called, the trilogy? Yeah. Yeah. And she, He says, a powerful man looks in the mirror and sees nothing. Exactly. Obviously, Kanye has not completely listened to that advice.

The most narcissistic person. That's because she died and it broke his heart and he couldn't live her words anymore. I know, man. It's real. Like I read something another day which was saying that it's like the ultimate goal of self-reflection is to not mean anything to yourself. So I listened to something the other day. They said the most powerful thought you can have is to have no thoughts.

that when you think not, when you think not. Yeah, agreed. Let me just get this again. Before we go to a break, I just want to read it. The obsessive desire to know yourself is in itself a pathology. I'm not, anyway, you're not healed when you wholly understand yourself, but when you don't matter to yourself anymore. That's interesting.

That's freedom. We think that I even feel my ego, like wanting to hold on to like, no, but it's important to look after yourself, but I think I interpret it as once you're healed, you then realize that it's bigger than you. I think that's what it is. Once you start to heal... What is bigger than you?

You realize that just life, community, existence, it is actually beyond you. That's really a real testament or sign that you're on a healing journey is understanding that you're actually just kind of insignificant. And that's a good thing. Of course. That's like, well, yeah,

that's why it's good to travel. True. I do just want to say that Lily absolutely killed it And I was overwhelmed and so fucking proud of that girl. Shout out a little, mate. Do I mean? Miss me forever. You know the app.

Miss me forever. Okay, right. Listen, I'm doing a segue this time and I'm saying it. So it's not smooth. Yes, I am. I'm saying it. I don't care. I don't care.

I don't care, Keith. We've got different presenting styles. My presenting style is spoon-faced. This isn't, we're not presenting. We're just talking to each other. Oh, yeah. Shit. All right.

Well, anyway, look. Go on. you say, great. Anyway, so toxic relationships. So Shantay Joseph is a journalist who's blown up. We spoke about her in a pod before she wrote the article is embarrassing to have a boyfriend now, or our boyfriend's embarrassing, something like that. Caused a stir. Set the internet aflame. Yes, absolutely. The world was on fire from said article. On fire. She's been jet setting. She's probably got a book deal. they're probably making like a fucking A-24 film about the article. Isn't that funny that you can write one article and it can completely change your career?

500 words, boss. Because Shante's been writing for a minute and now... I'd argue it is the title alone. Yeah, but I feel like she's got a lot of pressure now. Bless her. She did a follow-up article based on the response to the boyfriend's embarrassing article, which I think is really cool. I love that kind of vibe of updating and replying to feedback and a lot of men were triggered

and da-da-da-da. And also a lot of women, I guess, in a happy relationship, So kind of like, well, I love my boyfriend, you know, it was legit. But now it's in a slightly confusing way. And I did comment underneath this without having read the article and got dragged immediately. Like the speed at which I was dragged was phenomenal. Okay, let's say what the article's called first, babes. The article's called women are being ghosted by their long-term boyfriends now.

That can't be true. For me, immediately, and I'll hold my hands up, right? I'm sure there's a crossover between Miss Me listeners and followers of Ashanti Joseph, right? I didn't read the article when I commented, which is such a fucking amateur mistake. I read the carousel she posted, which are parts of the article, and left out, I think the bit that people were annoyed at me for not responding to, which is like the actual details of how these women were ghosted, which are fucking wild, right? But I stepped into it, totally projecting my own shit, which is that I am around people

at the moment, generally, men and women who are all ending long relationships. It is to the point, it's remarkable. It must be this year because me too. Right. It's remarkable, right? And it's not for me, it's not gendered. It's not like, is all the men leaving the women? It's definitely not.

If anything, it's more the women leaving the men, right? And that conversation about, you know, should women stay in toxic relationships? No, I don't think so. You know, I am pro somebody, you know, regaining their sovereignty or independence, you know, and not having their energies drained, right? I'm into that. But so then I read this and was like, I thought we were in the whole, like, relationships aren't that, important gang and now

this comment is about long-term boyfriends not working out. It was just, if that, that there was a quite... What did you say, though? What was your comment? Oh, sorry, in the comments, I thought maybe it's just a bigger conversation

about relationships ending. That's what I said. Okay, that's not, I think that's... Is it specific to men? I think there's a bigger conversation about relationships ending, right? I think that's a real opener to a great debate. Yes.

However, it doesn't get read like that online. You know, I thought maybe with like, literally all the things I say that I'd have some credential so people would know that I'm not. Because people would read that as what's called what aboutism, right? So it's like you highlight an issue for a woman and I come in and go, what about men? That's how that's read. Yeah, but I find that quite limiting and polarising. It is fundamentally.

But but I find that out the hard way. But I'm also at fault because I didn't actually read the whole article. So it's kind of like there's two things happening at the same time. Sure, two truths. Our favorite. Yeah, there's two truths. But it was like, whoa, that was. I really fucked up by because I I really truly was not trying to derail the conversation.

I wasn't trying to be like, but what about men? I was like, I think there's just a huge conversation about relationships. Yeah, you were taking gender out of it in general. Yeah. Well, as a woman. Yeah, please, please enlighten me. Before I go into the details in this article, which are nuts, what do you think of that title? Have you read it?

Sorry, have you read it? No, I thought you were going to tell me about it. Okay. But I know about fucking ghosting. Yeah, you're best believer. I know about ghosting. I've ghosted. I've been ghosted.

Phoebe calls it the Rejection Olympics, which I really like. Makes it a little bit more like. Let me just do, I'll just come in to do the 10, 10 meter, you know, ghosting. I'll go first. Then you can ghost me and da-da. But it's about power play, in it? But there is truly nothing more hell-like than to be ghosted. Even when I've ghosted someone, depends actually, but sometimes I've sat in some pain about it.

Sometimes they've fucking deserved it. But sometimes I've really sat in pain about it. It's horrible to just, because let's be very clear about ghosting. Ghosting is not, I'll call you back and then never calling you back. Ghosting is not asking you a question and then not getting back to your reply. Ghosting is reading something that you say to someone. I guess ghosting really came into life with WhatsApp. This actually is what you've just said.

would disappear, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, no. So that's a version of it. WhatsApp ghosting. Yeah. To be left on red. But this is what you just said. This article actually is what you just said.

And I think that's why people had a reaction to me being kind of a bit blase about maybe it's all a relationship. It's like, this is specifically long-term relationships where love is exchanged one day and literally the next day, the partner has completely disappeared. We talking like being with someone for like a year? No, longer than a year. Stop it. Oh, so the first, the first example.

always a year of dating. That is fucking heartbroken. Oh, two years. There's two years here, which is a 26 year old. He head out for Christmas gifts and never came back. Oh, my God. 42, boyfriend of two years. He had loads of her belongings.

And then he just stopped talking to her. Oh, my God. 33, Eva, a year of dating. To me, though, a year is still quite a short time, Especially when you're an adult. Like, I feel like it... Not to stop speaking to someone and never tell them why. No, no, no, no, no, sorry, sorry.

I'm not... I'm not... Sorry, I just... I was being ADHD, I was just in my head going over the legitimacy of long term. I guess anything above three months, I guess, is considered long term. You're in a different phase of dating. But after two years for me, it's like serious. Even three months...

But this is my point on this. Even fucking three months. It's just not. not okay to do this to people, to leave someone in silence, is to leave them with all the questions and all the confusion. Yeah, stone rolling. It's really toxic. It's like, all you've got to do is say, babe, I can't. Well, this is, so this is the point. And it's cowardice. You're completely right. Well, it's just depressing because it can happen from men that you think are brave. Yeah. And you're like, oh no, you're a coward. Yeah. It feels modern because of social media and

WhatsApp, WhatsApp particularly. Because if these guys are going to fuck off, or anyone's going to fuck off, you're going to have to fake your own death because Instagram still exists and it's not going to be too long before you start posting about where you are and what you're up to, which is painful for the person that thinks you must have died in some horrible accident. I don't think it is new. There's the age-old thing about your dad going out to get a glass of milk, never coming back.

I've actually heard stories like that. Yeah, yeah, totally. That did happen back in the day, probably easier to happen. It's probably more painful now you can see where everyone is. heartbreaking thing here is that these people are leaving like this one case the woman's left with like a shared bank account and bills and like loads of shit and you're

you're completely you've nailed it like it speaking on it as a man I can only I can only assume it's out of fear of literally yeah having to have a difficult conversation and tell someone how you feel and watch them break or not break or whatever

to confront it is scary yes yeah like the fluctuate you situations in emotional pain are so alien to certain generations or certain people or certain men, certainly the kind of man I was encouraged to grow up to become, I was not aware of these fluctuations, which is I think another reason why, you know, men also respond badly to like intense heartbreak, losing jobs, these kind of things, because we want to control things. And telling someone you don't want to be with them anymore is literally something, you cannot control their reaction.

Well, one thing I would say about that is, obviously, this conversation should not imply that I don't think men get hurt at the end of a relationship as well. Like, men that have these people who have left these, their partners of a year or more without saying a fucking word and disappearing into thin air, I'm sure we're also going through hell. No one goes, handled that well.

And I think a lot of people then just sort of sit in their guilt and shame and it's like this conversation is for everyone. This conversation of ending things with respect for each other and love for each other is for both parties no matter what gender you are. And I don't think there are enough scripts. This is what I mean, literally. And literally and metaphysically, you know, like there aren't really any, I can't think, I couldn't think of a film.

Or if I wanted to tell a young man or my mate, whatever, like, how do you break up with somebody in a kind way or like, how do you deal with the fact you can't control someone's reaction, all these kind of things. Like, I can't think of that money pop culture moments, which is why desperately trying to write these stories. Have you ever ghosted someone in this fashion? No, I'm, I feel quite guilty with stuff like that. Like, I feel like I owe, sometimes I feel like I owe response to people that I don't even

owe a response to. I'm not, I'm the other way. If anything, I should. I hear you, bro. I have a boyfriend from 10 years ago who still texts me and I'm like, hey. Hey. And it's like, why am I? I just, I don't, I don't.

I have stopped talking to someone who is continuing. talking to me, but like I have told them that I don't want to talk to them first. Oh, well done. Well done. Well done. And can I say, I was thinking the other day, as I am a lot, because I'm right, obviously I'm writing this, I'm trying to write this new book and a lot of it is about these taboo subjects, right? I was talking to a friend about like a societal perception of sex work, for example, right? I'm reading a book at a moment called Hors and Other Feminists. It's a really good book so far. Love it. Sounds brilliant. It's so good. It's just like an anthology of of stories told by sex workers of varying, you know, peep show or dominatrix or whatever,

that's really, really, really interesting because obviously they have such an incredible insight to, I mean, specifically male behavior, right? So, but we have the societal understanding or, like, belief or, like, this religious trickle-down of shame or, you know, like, sex work, you know. But I was thinking another day, like, if a guy pays for a sex worker, right? Within that experience, I think some of the reason why people would question it is because it's not real in avert commas, right? It's not real.

Like the experience, you couldn't have had an emotional tie to this person. Right. They're creating like a mirage for your enjoyment, okay, and then there's a clear boundary, which is the exchange of money,

and then it's done. And people will be like, isn't that sad that you have to pay someone to create an idea that you could find yourself? I'm assuming this is some of how people look at it. I personally look at it that way, but this is what I pick up from other people, right? With me and my jiggleo,

No, but serious. Anyway, that's companionship is another thing. But then I was thinking, if you go out to a club, right, or if you go out when you're younger, and you like basically sell a lie as a guy to a woman and then you have sex and then you don't see them or hang out of them again, which would happen a lot, right? I look at that as a reflection on ghosting in quite a confusing way.

I wonder why in those situations it wouldn't make just more sense for those guys to maybe just pay a sex worker. At least there's some sort of agreement in place and there's an exchange. Yeah, like the guy is creating the same mirage as you would as a sex worker in reverse.

He's creating a mirage because he's going like, you love bombing, right? Gets the thing, then ducks. Could we maybe do love bombing for Listen, bitch? Because I feel like it's quite a modern term for something that's probably been happening for a long time, which is my favourite kind of thing in the world. And also, I'm not sure whether I know

the difference anymore between love bombing and the fucking truth. So I would love to discuss it with the world. That's really interesting because you could argue that love bombing is the truth to that person in that moment. That's what I said. I said, I think they meant it. It just then they meant it. Yeah, but it's because you're high, right?

High. When you're like in lust of someone, you're high. You're literally like your body, I don't know that I need to find a science. I think your body gets flooded with like oxytocin, which is why, which is, Which is why people will say things that are objectively insane, like the biggest obvious red flags for your relationship. And you just go, oh, that's fine. How is this sort of unexpected verbalisation of appreciation and excitement for, let's say, the other person or a future or a past night out or something like that? How is that not the truth?

How is that not still valid as the truth? it's just in that moment. When you say love bombing to me in my head, I think, somebody is saying things, right, that have, that come with it, a consequence and a care of duty, duty of care. Yeah.

And then they aren't able to provide that. Yes, they're not able to, yeah. Yeah, so you've been bombed and then you're just left with like this fucking shrapnel and then a person's disappeared and it's bizarre. But where I think we're trying to meet in the middle is some of these people, not all of them, there are some fucking people out there,

but somebody's they're high so they believe it too I've been that I've been in that situation where I've been like there's no way I'm not spending every day of my life with this person I'm fucking obsessed and then like three months past I'm like who the fuck is this like what yeah see oh god that's so harsh but I get it see what I've done is been drunk and high and said I love you to people I did not love and then felt really embarrassed the next day

and they and then they were like all in love with me and I was like I don't love you yeah that is Love bombing, yeah. Okay, cool. And what were you? Hi. Yeah, but that was on like actual drugs. Yeah, but ecstasy, I mean, listen, everyone,

they should come as a disclaimer. It wasn't ecstasy. It should come as a disclaimer. I will tell you I love you. Yeah, yeah. If you give me a pill, I love you. And that's not my fault. I think I've tried a love bomb before, actually.

I had a couple of my FIFA. Yeah, aren't there pills called Love Bombs? Yeah, seek love bomb on the list. I can talk about this for hours, but we must go. We must go. And I just with Lil, I wanted to just talk about what it really means to turn your pain into power. And remember, Lily is the one who gave me the words and everyone else on Miss Me, this idea of not turning away from pain and loving pain and caressing pain and welcoming it in.

But it's Lil. Yeah, right? And I guess on that day, on Sunday night at the O2, with thousands and thousands and thousands of people screaming back, these lyrics that I know came from the most painful place. of her body, soul and mind, I was like, this is what you do. You caress it, you sit with the pain, you welcome it,

and then you turn it into your power. And she fucking did that times 10. And I had to cradle her, me and Phoebes, cradle her while she was holding that pain, and I never thought she'd get out of it. So to see her do this with it instead, fuck yeah, fuck yeah. It's a lesson to us all.

Don't be afraid of pain. Don't be afraid of pain. Don't be afraid of its ugliness and its hard edges. It's only way to grow, I'll be real. Boy, has she grown. Jordan, it's been bloody wonderful talking to you today. I texted you last night saying, I feel a bit silly. How are you feeling you said?

I've dyed my hair blonde. I feel silly too. I think we really brought that. Blonds really do have more fun energy today. I look like a pony. Yeah, you do. Okay. Okay, bye.

Bye. Thanks for listening to. To miss me, this is a Persephonica show.