Miss Me? - The Reverse Cougar

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss Demi Moore, age-gap relationships and Elon Musk’s latest interest in UK politics. This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. If you have been affected by any of the issues raised, you can find support via the BBC Action Line: https://bbc.co.uk/actionline/ Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. World of Secrets is where untold stories are exposed. And in this new series, we investigate the dark side of the wellness industry, following the story of a woman who joined a yoga school only to uncover a world she never expected. I feel that I have no other choice. The only thing I can do is to speak about this. Where the hope of spiritual breakthroughs leaves people vulnerable to exploitation.

You just get sucked in so gradually and it's done so skillfully that you don't realise. World of Secrets, The Bad Guru. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. Hi, welcome to Miss Me. And this. We're gonna be adult and languagey. ["International Miss Me Day"] Hi, welcome.

Welcome to International Miss Me Day. Hello. Is it International Miss Me Day? Kenya to New York, I think so. Yeah, I know, but it's not like an official like year since we've done it, like. No, no, but I feel like beginning of the year, coming through international.

Do you know how many people it's taken to make this happen today? Would you like to be introduced to all of them? Sure. Can we get the director, Can we get director in here? Uncle Nick, the director. Hi. Hi.

Hello, Uncle Nick. Hi, Uncle Nick. Thank you. Can we get the art director, Uncle Chris? Production manager and stylist, Andy Oliver. Yay. Vibes, international vibes, head, Garfield Hackett. That's right.

Yeah, king of vibes, king of vibes. Additional vibe makers, Jaden Jordan. That's right, that's right, hi. Hi, oh my God, celebrities. And now everyone, everyone together like we rehearse, welcome to the International Miss Me production crew! Okay, now you go.

And exit stage right, exit stage right. So all those fantastic people, including a number of people at the hotel have made today happen. So we say thank you. It takes a lot to make Miss Me happen. That's all love there, Lilz. I wish we say thank you. It takes a lot to make Miss Me happen. That's all love there Lilz. I wish I was with you.

Love you Lilz. Yeah and we actually Love you Lilz. Love you Lilz. Love you Lilz. Aww, everyone loves me. We are actually in Swahili Beach Hotel which is where you and I were last year when we found out Miss Me was going to be commissioned by our wonderful friends at the BBC.

So it's actually a very full circle moment, very full circle. It's a full circle moment, full circle. And guess where we're having dinner tonight? Buffet! That's right! Uncle Chris tried to make us book the Indian restaurant, mum was having none of it. We are going to the buffet tonight for dinner. So yeah, it's lovely to be in Kenya. You were in Kenya as well, obviously. I was. I was in Kenya. I went to Kenya 12 yesterday. What does that mean for Marnie's birthday party? What does 12 mean? What does 12 want? She doesn't really like birthdays,

Marnie. She actually gets birthday anxiety. She's usually sick on her birthday and she has to stay in bed all day. But she, you know, we've arranged like a little cake and some flowers and I think she wants to go for ramen with her friend Francis, so we'll probably do that. Very 17 of her, that's very sophisticated. But yeah, we flew into Nairobi from London and then we stayed the night in Nairobi and then we flew to a place called Mara Nieka,

which was in the Masai Mara and drove around there on safari for a few days and it was absolutely incredible. And the girls just loved it. Yeah, Jade and Jordan have just been on safari and they said that they didn't get bored and you had to get up at five in the morning every day to go see animals till like maybe sometimes eight at night. That's quite a lot of animal spotting. And should we talk about why Kenya is a place that we go and eat in the first place? I mean, the reason I first went to Kenya was because my friend Kim Jones took me

there to go on safari. So that's always been my first reason. But then last year I came to see you. Yes. came to see you. Yes. I'd been on holiday with my husband David in India and on the way back from there I came to see you. Yeah, it was absolutely lovely. We had a great time. It was lovely. The reason we are picking Kenya, the reason my mum thinks that she doesn't want to summer in England, sorry, I don't want to spend January in England anymore, which is quite a galling claim,

but that's what she wants now. And she'd like to spend it in Kenya every year, the beginning of January. And that is because my uncle Nick lives here and has for a very long time. And we all love him very much. And he was our director today. But I don't want to just go on about my holiday

and how nice it is and how hot it is, because I know that New York's pretty cold and possibly snow snowing it was snowing yesterday today. It's bright today. It's bright and cold, but it's bright Yeah, I feel like the thing to do in New York when it's snowing is maybe go to the cinema Yeah, this is me wanting to talk about wicked really. Did you see it? No, I haven't seen it because I didn't I didn't. And then I sort of started looking, we were talking about it on that shoot. And then I started looking into the story of it all. And I'm now completely mesmerized and obsessed with the fact that someone would watch The Wizard of Oz and decide that both witches deserved an origin story of how they come

to be these people that are just called, well, one of them is just called bad. And I feel like if we were in Wicked, you would be Glinda, good witch of the North, and I would be Elphaba. Sorry, on what planet are you talking? A hundred percent. If this was Wicked, I would be Elphaba, for sure. Isn't Elphaba for sure. Isn't Elphaba like... I'm the bad one. No, but Elphaba is not bad though. She's misunderstood.

Yeah, that would be me. Oh, right. I suppose so. Yeah, yeah. So what's, what's Glinda's role within this? I know that she's a student. Keep it peppy. Just to keep it peppy. She's there just to keep it peppy. Okay, maybe, maybe you're Elphaba. But I do like this idea of the story of otherness and actually how people come to be who they are. No one is just wicked. Yes. So I'm very obsessed with the story now. I just got told it's brilliant. But anyway,

sorry, back to Kenya, back to Kenya. I would like to tell the story of my uncle Nick, who met my mother many, many years ago when I was about a year old. She was going to see her friend Weasel in Abric Grove and she needed someone to look after the baby. So she went to her mate's house and her mate wasn't there, Auntie Viv. And so this guy was there and he said,

I'll look after your baby while you go see Weasel. And that was the beginning of a very long, long friendship. They actually were lovers for a while, for about two years. You remember when they went out, right? Yeah. And then, uh, and Nick was a very successful actor in things. He was a heartthrob, if you will, in, um, the bill and silent witness. And uh, he played a lot of bastards. He's very good at playing a bastard.

I remember he was like an evil count in some show once. It really upset me. But he's not a bastard. He's a wonderful man. So much so that he then moved in a sort of life pivoting, career pivoting moment, moved to Kenya to become the founder of a project called SAFE, which is an Arts for Social Change charity. This is in 2002. It works to raise the voices of activists and artists by creating world-class performances that change and save lives. They've done plays and films that look at HIV, peace-building, sexual and reproductive health. They've made real change and real influence and he's dedicated his life to this wonderful work and he could have just been that hot actor from the bill.

So I've always been really interested in how, not even brave, but what a chance he took on his own life. I think this is the time to think about things. To just up sticks and go, yeah, I mean, I did that coming here to New York. Yeah, I was thinking about kind of a simpler life because this is the time of year where lots of people think about wanting to change their life after having spent a lot of time with the people they love over the Christmas period. I personally not sure I want kids after Christmas. Really?

Because they're just always there. That's true. They are. Not trying to be dismissive to raising a family, but it's a hell of a lot of constantness. And I don't know whether I'm actually built for it. I realized after this year, it's been quite a revelation for me. Well, I mean, I can say, you know, it's really tough.

They are always there and you always have to be present and there for them. And that's okay, you know, when things in life are going well and swimmingly and you're coping, you know, it's really nice to have the kids around and they're a joy to be around. And in fact, one of the main sources of joy in one's life. But when things are not going well and life is tough

as it is for many, many people for all manner of reasons, having to hold things together is really hard. It's really, really hard. Is it easier with them getting older though? Does it do you feel more like a team? Cause they're older and they're not sort of babies, children. Yes, we do. We are a support network for each other

and encourage each other to talk about our feelings. But I think the main thing is you just have to tell them, we're going to get through it. We're going to be fine. Yeah. This is the year of strength and prosperity. Look at everything that's happened to Demi Moore, for God's sake. Talk about prosperity right at the beginning of the year. I thought she was doing all right,

because everyone's like, the comeback of Demi Moore. It's like, no, that was Charlie's Angels. I remember it was like, whoa, we haven't seen Demi Moore in fucking ages. And she came out and she was like, washboard stomach. And she sort of had had really good finite surgery. That's pretty honest. And she was back and that was like 2005 or something.

So the fact that she's back again, I'm like a go on Demi. Because Demi Moore's had a life. Had a life. She really has. 90s, Demi Moore, biggest deal in the fucking world. She's not in her 90s, is she? Yes, she's changed. I can tell that she's changed plastic surgeon. deal in the fucking world. She's not in her nineties, is she? Yes, she's changed. I can tell that she's changed plastic surgeon.

She doesn't look a day over 55. No, but don't you remember when you, I don't want to be mean because I would never sit around with Lily tearing people's faces apart. We'd never do that. But there was a particular fashion show that Demi Moore was in and we were both like, what the fuck has she done to her face? And I feel like now she's neatened it all up, called whoever's working with Kylie Jenner and said, can I just get this all neat and done? She looks aces.

Doesn't look pretty good. So we should say she just won a Golden Globe for the substance. It's her first major acting award in what, 45 years of being on our silver screens. Isn't that crazy? Well, someone that really likes awards, I'd be well pissed off. Maybe she wasn't waiting. I'd be a bit like, where are my Jews if I was Demi Moore by then? She said she was about to give up acting again.

Maybe she's not much of a manifesto. No, this is the point. She said, I felt like the universe presented me with something just as I was deciding to stop acting. And then I was presented with something and I said, yes. And this is interesting because this lady that's staying with us is cool. That was with this gang of people on the holiday.

She's called Sara, Swedish Sara. I love her. And she's just turned 50 and she was like, it's my year of yes. And I was like, yeah, cool, whatever. She's like, no, no, no, like actually everything yes. So we all tried it a bit and you realize how often in the day you say no to things. I was like, oh, no, I don't do that.

She's like, Makita. I was like, oh, yes, let's do this. Yeah, I mean, I tend to be a person that says yes a lot and I would like to spend more of this year saying no, actually. So yeah, I'm going to flip that one. No mom says that saying no sometimes is a yes to yourself. Yes, I would agree with that.

Still in the yes quarters. So Sara goes, Andy, do you want to come for a sale? My mom's like, absolutely, yeah, yeah, man, let's go. And we were all like, really? You're going to go for a sail? She said, absolutely. And then we realized my mom thought it was S-A-L-E and Sarah went S-A-I-L. So then mom was like, oh, no, I'm not fucking doing that.

We were like, year of yes. So we all got on this boat which was really quite small with these three beautiful Kenyan boys and just went off on it but it was so magical and we were like the year of yes we all should have said yes and then we got a double rainbow Lily, double rainbow. A double rainbow. What's on the other side of saying yes is magic. And it's a full circle thing. Guess who I saw over Christmas talking about full circle magic? Who?

I saw what Ella at Charlie Robinson's. You did not. I fucking did. And I was with Phoebe Oliver and I was like, oh my god, that's Wailah. And of course, you know, she's like a 42 year old, really nice, quite quiet, timid woman. I was like, I have made you something that you are so not anymore. And if I can face Wailah at Robus's 40th, then I can do anything. How was she?

Really nice. I can do anything. How was she? Really nice. I felt really bad. Did she know that we talked about her on the podcast? I didn't ask. But it was just really nice to like stare at her face and be like, oh my God, you're what Ella? She's like, hi, I'm Ella. I was like, no, I know who you are.

She's still really beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we just hated her because she was pretty. No, it wasn't just that. But she seemed very sweet. And it was a real lesson in what you can make someone in your head. No, she did actually stab me in the ear with a beer can once. So I mean, I feel like I have. Oh my God. Charlie Roper since 21st? No, at Glastonbury. I got in a proper fight with her, Rob Hawkins, Iris, and I think that Iris fancied Rob or something. I can't remember what was going on, but it was like there was a thing going on between

Iris and Rob and Ella and Iris were friends. We ran into each other at Glastonbury and Iris and Ella like sat on this fence but in front of a big speaker and they fell backwards and so obviously I pissed myself laughing and they go, what are you fucking laughing at? And she like scrunched this can and like shoved it in my ear. Lily! And then, and then I got me, Rob and Lester all had black eyes. I think they got their black eyes from another fight. Anyway, I can't really remember but.

I take it back. What a fucking bitch. No, listen we were children and we were just you know doing what children do. Obviously. That's an interesting crew. So I saw Ella, who was in that crew, Rob, Lester. Okay. Yeah. I feel like full circle moments are abound and all around and I embrace them because guess what, Lily?

What? I say yes. You say yes. I say yes. I'd like to go back to Demi more quickly because a moment in her life that was quite pivotal was of course when she married Ashton Kutcher and the world was aghast, aghast at this union, disgusted some would say. Because of the age gap. Guess how old she was?

43? 40, literally 40. Oh my god, how old was he? Twenty five. Oh, whatever. I know, isn't it? But to the point where the world's media felt the need to brandish Demi Moore a cougar. And this is around the time, I suppose, where cougar started being applied to an older woman having a relationship with a younger man. This is a, the characteristics are predominantly predatory. Can I, can I just stop you there? Yeah. I feel like let's keep this Demi Moore conversation to her Golden Globe winning and let's not tarnish it with this cougar-ness. It wasn't about her cougar-ness. It was about that moment and if it's changed today, because I think it has.

And that is a great thing. I don't know if it has, because what about Sam Taylor Johnson and Aaron Taylor Johnson? That was time ago. What about Sienna and Olly? No one gives a shit. Hmm. Do you know what I'm saying? The freedom. This is not about, I don't want to talk about what she was called because I agree with you.

I think it was a very dated and ridiculous moment and it's got nothing to do with who she is in her career. But it was something that became a term that is now used all the time and people remember this. And now I think there's a lot more freedom and I don't think people worry so much about the life decisions they make and the judgment that would be caused on it, which I think is really exciting. I love cougars and I hope to be one one day. You've always been a cougar, let's not lie. That is such bollocks. No, it is not. No, it is not. No, it is not. No, it is not.

Okay. Yeah, fair enough. You no, it is not. Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. You've always liked them young. Okay. That's my friend Alex over here. When I met her last time, she, we were talking about love and stuff and she's just fallen in love with a 65 year old and she's 34 and they're there and they've

got married and I was like, the only way is up, baby. But you and me now. So check me on my 73 year old boyfriend this spring. I'll show you Cougar. The reverse Cougar. But anyway, yeah, good for Demi more, right? Good for Demi. The reverse Cougar, that's our title. Yes, it is. Good for Demi. I didn't watch her speech. I didn't watch any of the Golden Globes. I'm, I'm really not interested.

What, in award ceremonies at all? No, not on the moment. Not the moment. I'm finding it really hard to be interested in anything. I'm just so, I'm really not in a good place. I know I've been talking about it for months, but I've been spiraling and spiraling and spiraling and it's got out of control.

I tried, I mean, I came to the Christmas lunch, the Miss Me Christmas lunch, and I had a panic attack and had to go home. I went to see something at the theater the other night with my friend, Carlo and Claire. I had to leave at halftime. I just can't concentrate on anything except the pain that I'm going through.

Mm-hmm. That's what happens. And it's really, really hard. I'm going away next week. You're not gonna hear me for a few weeks, listeners. What I do want to reassure people, because there will be speculation, because of the amount

of time that I'm going to be taking away that I'm going to drug rehab. I'm not. I've not relapsed. I know there have been some horrible blind items on the internet about me being found by my husband in a crack den being surrounded by men. What? No. What? I don't know who's spreading these vicious rumors, but that's not true. That would be quite a life spiral, wouldn't it?

That'd be quite a turn out for the books. Yeah. I'll be a tool in this. I will look after this ship. I'll drive this ship and we'll wait for the captain to return. We'll give you a break now. Look, I'll start right now. Why don't we have a little break,

get you ready for the bigger break you're having. It's just a little taster for the little time you're gonna have. Here you go, this is just a little version for what you're about to get anyway, darling. Okay. World of Secrets is where untold stories are exposed, and in this new series we investigate the dark side of the wellness industry, following the story of a woman who joined a yoga school,

only to uncover a world she never expected. I feel that I have no other choice. The only thing I can do is to speak about this. Where the hope of spiritual breakthroughs leaves people vulnerable to exploitation. You just get sucked in so gradually and it's done so skillfully that you don't realize. World of Secrets, The Bad Guru.

Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Welcome back. Welcome back. Elon Musk has decided to embed himself into the cycle of British politics for some reason. This week he's made several statements concerning UK politics, particularly targeting Prime Minister Keir Starmer and the Labour government. He has called for Starmer's imprisonment and suggested that the United States should liberate Britain from its government. Incredible. He's such a guy, isn't he? What a guy.

He's very much a supporter of Tommy Robinson. Tommy Robinson is actually a pseudonym, like all the greats. He's got a pseudonym, just Tommy Robinson. His real name is actually Stephen Yaxley Lennon. For those of you that don't know, he's a British anti-Islam campaigner, one of the UK's most prominent far-right activists, who is currently in jail for contempt of court, but Elon thinks he should be taken out immediately. Musk believes that Farage shouldn't be the leader of the reform parties, far too genteel. I think Farage is not quite an extremist enough for him.

Tommy Robinson, someone that says unbelievable things often. I saw him on this show with Rick actually was hosting it. It was a few years ago. I think it was called Free Speech on the BBC. He was there and Akala was there. It was brilliant. I thought Akala was absolutely eloquent and strong and brilliant. Actually, let's play that little clip from that show so we can remember that beautiful moment from the strong giant of a man that is a collar. Brooming gangs. Everything. Let someone else speak for a minute. Please, Tommy. Of course, Mr. Robinson, there are no pedophiles who are white and white people have never bombed anyone else.

87% of brooming cases are Muslim. Yeah, 5% of the country is Muslim. You spoke. You spoke. You spoke. Let me speak. Now, this is exactly the issue is what I'm saying, right? As much as I agree with what's being said about this man and his organization, right? We focus, we focus on fringe bigots rather than dealing with the real central issue that we have a political system. I can't count how many times I've read the Daily Mail or some other paper, not that I read these rags,

and it says, Pakistani man does blah. When Jimmy Savile or something comes out about him, is his ethnicity or his religious beliefs put forward as the primary reason for him committing an offence? No. Yeah, I think, I think Carla's point is that when a Caucasian person commits a crime, neither their race or their religion is linked to the reason that said crime was committed. And a home office study in 2020 states that most child sexual abuse gangs are made up of white men under the age of 30. Yeah. I mean, also, I just think that like, you know, we spoke a little bit about this yesterday when we were preparing for today's show. And you said, you know, when we talked about Elon Musk and his sort of venture into British politics, you said, you know, it's quite a weird place to start, you know, with all of this, you know,

rather than Muslim rape gangs. And my point was that it isn't because it was absolutely, you know, incredibly effective place when it when it started in 2018. I think it was. I mean, I know that even, you know, I have not been involved in this conversation this time around, but I did get myself involved the first time around. And my Twitter timeline over the past couple of days has been, has been blowing up with regurgitated stuff from back in that, in those days. Oh, from things you've said then.

Yeah. And it's all on Elon Musk's platform. So they're doing something, you know, they're trying to rile people up. Oh, yes. Whip everyone into a frenzy. It's interesting he's coming for Jess Phillips, who he's called a, let me get this right, because we've definitely just put words together, a rape genocide apologist. This is Jess Phillips, who is the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and

Girls, who has continuously used her voice to fight for women's rights and the protection of women and girls. It feels like we're just putting words together now into sentences. It does sound a little bit like that. What is a rape genocide apologist? What is a rape genocide apologist? Someone who doesn't stand up for the rights of victims of rape and genocide. So the opposite of her job. The opposite of her job. I wouldn't say that that's what she is. I mean, the point that I tried to make back in those days is that, you know,

rape of young women is so rife and so prevalent and so under-reported and under-prosecuted that it's sort of irrelevant as to what race the perpetrators of the crime is. What is relevant is that we help all of these girls that are going through these horrific situations and don't cherry pick them because we don't like the type of people that are perpetrating them. That's just like another way of using women. It just makes me feel sick and makes me angry that, you know, the suffering of women is used to, you know, bolster these political figures that want more power. More power. It's interesting what people choose to do with their power, isn't it? It really

is a choice. And this is the choice that Elon's made to come here, try and gain some more. And some people would say that we need to be very careful. And some of those people might be my mum. Not me, my mother. Wow. So Meta has just announced that it is abandoning the use of independent fact checkers on Facebook and Instagram, replacing them with X-style community notes where commenting on the accuracy of posts is left to users. Also worth mentioning that Dana White, the chief executive of UFC and longtime friend of Donald Trump is joining the board of Metta. Wow. God, it's almost like these guys have all got an agenda and they are all in it together. It's like they've all got a WhatsApp group. Doesn't it?

How to take over the world. WhatsApp group. So yeah, let's all fasten our fucking seat belts, shall we? I really do think it just still just comes back to the phones, like they're not doing us any good. They're certainly not doing me any good at the moment. I really don't like my phone. You shouldn't be on it. I don't think anyone should.

I think that like social media has fucked us. I think that it's fucked democracy. It's fucked everything. It's fucked the arts. It's fucked everything. And it needs, arts, it's fucked everything and it needs, we need to put them in the bin. We need to put them in the bin. It needs to stop! We're not talking to each other anymore. Like we're not talking to each other. We're not

talking to each other on the streets. Do you know what? Not smiling at each other. We're not doing what human beings are supposed to be doing. And I am as guilty of that as anyone else. And this is one thing I am very excited about my, you know, where I'm going over the next few weeks is that I am not allowed my phone. Exactly. It's one of the reasons you're going, isn't it? You can take your phone out your hands. It is everywhere as well. And it's so funny how people look at it in different ways. Like we were on the beach and there was this family, all they had a selfie stick,

which I guess is a step too far for whatever, whatever floats your boat. And they were taking photos of it and me and Uncle Nick and mom and everyone were like, God, embarrassing. 10 minutes later, we're all doing exactly the same thing. It's like, why are they embarrassing? And we're not. And then today, even in this, in this hotel, there are these beautiful women everywhere and every single woman is finding a spot to take selfies

with their friend. And it's about beauty. It's just about this need for beauty. Everyone has to be beautiful. No one is allowed to not be beautiful anymore. Otherwise you have no currency in this world. I don't think that we even need to dissect it. I think that like we just all it deep down in all of our souls, we know it is bad and we should stop. Yes. So what are we doing? So that's one thing we don't say yes to this year. Social media, no more. Should we just stop together? Would that really fuck up Miss Me? We are allowed to just get, me and Lily allowed to jump off for a few

months. No, I don't think we are. I think we're contractually obliged. On that note, happy 2025 everyone. That's like you're out now Lil. Thank you. That was beautiful. I'll see you in a few weeks and hopefully some of these changes in the world may have occurred. Stay away from Andrew Tate. Is he in jail at the moment? Anyway, stay away from those podcasts. So Andrew Tate has actually started a new political party called BRUV. That's annoying, because I actually would vote for the BRUV pie.

How dare he take that word? That's a hard word. Britain restoring underlying values. I think it should just be BRUV. I don't think it should pretend to have a meaning. Do they have merch? Are they going to be fucking contenders for Miss Me merch? God, we really do have a problem on our hands. No. All right, my lovely, I'm going to let you go. I'm going to get back to the holiday with the guys, back to

my international Miss Me production crew. And I will see you for the final listen, bitch, before your little breaky breaky little breaky breaky. Alright my love. And we're talking about respect. Respect. Yes, we'll think of many many songs. No morality.

No respect. Oh my god, wait, what is that? Hang on, hang on, I know. Oh my god, the dinner table in human traffic. when Danny Dyer is high and is at home. Oh my God, you are my sister. That's actually unbelievable that I know what you're talking about. What a scene. Goodbye, Lily Allen.

Thank you for reminding me why I love you. I'll speak to you later. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. Love you, I'll see you later, bye! That is bbc.co.uk slash action line. They were the toy of the late nineties. This Christmas it's Furby. Furry, lovable and oh so cute. But what if those Furbies had a secret? You want to play again?

Rumours swirled that these creatures were a cover for something much, much darker. So they got banned. In the new series of Joanne McNally Investigates, I'm going to ask, were these little guys spies? Just crazy stuff would start happening. We'll get to the bottom of this scandal, an attempt to track down the brains behind the toy, which caused so much suspicion. A fugitive. A Furby fugitive. I have no comment. Joanne McNally Investigates, did Furby spy on us?

Listen on BBC Science. When you're young, it feels like anything is possible. Maybe you're a little hotheaded, but your optimism lifts you up. And your righteous fury can be rocket fuel, propelling you to fight for what's right. You might make choices that put you in danger. You might even make history. I'm Nicola Cochlan. This is history's youngest heroes. Rebellion, risk and the radical power of youth. Being young, maybe she didn't think too much. She thought, right, I'll just do it. She thought about others rather than herself. 12 stories of extraordinary young people from across history.

There's a real sense of urgency in them. That resistance has to be mounted, it has to be mounted now. Including a young man called Nelson Mandela, a firebrand who led the defiance campaign against apartheid. Break segregation laws, ignore curfews, enter the door for white people at the post office, stand on the white side of the platform at the train station and it's decided that black people are going to do this en masse. And Lakshmi Bhai, the Rani of Jhansi, India's warrior queen.

She was a small woman, leading her troops, a stride or horse, sword in each hand, taking on the might of the entire British Empire. History is lit up by young people who act on instinct and stick to their principles. Like Julian of Norwich, one of the first women to write in the English language, a trailblazer, but at a cost. Why would somebody choose to have themselves blocked up into a tiny little cell with limited contact with the outside world, out of choice? And Lady Jane Grey, Queen for nine days, who refused to give up her faith and chose to

face the executioner's axe. You have someone who is knowingly risking death and then ultimately knowingly taking death because there is something that matters more to them than their life itself. And that's a fundamentally heroic position. These are tales of saints, athletes, Hollywood superstars and pioneers. Some heroes are household names. Some have been all but forgotten. Like Vasily Arkhipov, a Soviet naval officer whose extraordinary courage helped save the world from nuclear catastrophe.

Well, sticking to your guns on that submarine in that heat that take gods that really takes gods history made by young people follow history's youngest heroes wherever you get your podcasts Music Sound Effect