Miss Me? - This is our world now

Episode Date: September 25, 2025

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens discuss the art of relationships, celebrate JADE’s debut album, the joy of Davina and debate the art of hacking.This episode contains very strong language, adult themes and drug references.Credits: Producer: Natalie Jamieson Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Production Coordinator: Rose Wilcox Executive Producer: Dino Sofos Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan HaskinsMiss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes and just some, just a few drug references. Like, under-researched and under-supported, specifically female issue, which I can't mock. Welcome to miss me. Jordan, that's so beautiful. What a beautiful way to start. I have the worst period of pains of my life and I couldn't sleep through them last night. I don't think, no, I won't even say, I don't think you get it. But, like, it's a pain like no other.

and it circles your torso so it's deep in your womb but it also has a little party in your back as well so you're just like come out and the way you put it is really good how did you put it under-researched and under-supported thank you

no but only because I saw Nagamachetti talking about this on Radio 4 or something and she was talking about her period pains and I just could not believe the extent of it was similar you know not being able to sleep sleeping on the floor because of the strain on her back and I think her main point was just

She's been through a lot She was delivering it very matter of fact They didn't feel like you know Well that's the thing as a woman It's like it's just so not a nuanced anomaly of a situation It's just like this is how it is We are used to pain

But I'm happy it's you I'm talking to it more than that I'm happy that I don't have to find That fucking bucket Which I call the miss me on the road bucket full of like the computers and the cameras and the lights

I have been lugging that thing around for six and a half months whether it be to yeah since I lost my flat to Lily's house we did three weeks there in the beginning then we did my mum's house

one time we had to do Uncle Nick's in Kenzor Eyes like oh nice he's still got that place it's nice place he does still have it next to the Italian great olives yeah man

but it wasn't great lighting for Miss me I have to be honest that's a shame and then we I've been doing Kelly's office in Walthamstow. So I am finally, finally in my new flat

after walking through the fire. Well, what's the actual Culeo line as I walk through the shadow of the death? I would go, I think you've gone a little farther. Yeah, no, because then it's like I'd take a look at my life and realize there's nothing left.

That was my summer. I would kind of still be with you we started with the initial part of this podcast discussing the pain you're in, I'd say finding random flats in London to try and utilise internet. It's not the worst. It's not the worst. Jordan. As you know, that's not what I mean. What I mean is why I had to evacuate so suddenly my beautiful home that I loved. Okay, well, there you go again. I can't, I've lost all space for ridicule. Yes, you have. Okay, are we getting into that? Yes, because I didn't ever want to talk about it. Do you know what? The first week

I had to move out, I was so embarrassed that suddenly I was like, wherever I was I think the first week I did it in my mum's kitchen, like really hurriedly and not a good shot. Great kitchen. Yeah, but we didn't do this. We didn't set the shot up right. It wasn't like staring up when you came around. And

so I didn't want to talk about what had happened. I was like, let me just get through the episode. And then the next week I really wanted to talk about it and the people in my life, mainly like my agent and mum and everyone, said, I don't think it's very safe to talk about it yet um and so for my safety i haven't really talked about it but i think now that i've moved and i'm somewhere safe and new i just want to explain what happened because

it was quite a strange thing to happen and i also really wanted to talk about it with a boy because um it brought up all these things that i think are really um specific to women and the way we feel terror and fear and the things that we fear and bring us terror so i was living in a flat in a block which was a really safe lovely block full of people that I love but I did have a neighbour

right next door to me at the end of the hallway where I lived that I didn't feel safe around and he never came out of his flat and the police were knocking on his door often and I did feel this now I know

always low level of anxiety in my bathrooms because that's the walls I shared with him and when I was coming into my flat because his door looked at me while I did my keys and he had a little sign saying I have cameras

like for the hallway, no reason for him to have that. Either way, for three years, I pretended I was, I felt safe. And two days after Miss Me Live, where I was really like happy, I remember thinking, wow, this is a new chapter. We'd done this amazing thing. And I felt really, really good. I went to play some tennis with Silliman, and we came back, and there was a letter stuck to my door.

And the letter was from the neighbor, and I had never heard from him before. And he was basically explaining to me that he was listening to everything I was doing every day and that I was he was the closest person in proximity to me and that people had that he thought believed that I've been sent there by people with dark magic and that he would do whatever he had to do to stop that dark magic coming anywhere near him and that he had got rid of people that wanted to put this dark magic on him before so there's a mixture of someone who's really not mentally well and someone who's really unpredictable and I had seen this man once and I have to say he really terrified me.

So to get that letter, I can't even tell you, Jordan, the kind of fear that it brought because I think with women, you are so often waiting for me personally, waiting for it to be my turn because the media tells you, and every TV show and every documentary that is about yet another woman being raped or killed, murdered, kidnapped, it tells you that it's coming for you, you just don't know when. So when something like that is very real and very close to your home

like where you're meant to feel safe you think it's finally my turn you don't think oh I'll be okay and then unfortunately the police that I went to see and I've heard this a lot from other women that have had similar experiences because I don't know whether Jade's been through anything with stalkers but obviously Lily has

and the police were unbelievably difficult to go through this process with and for me I had the same experience They told me there was nothing they could do. They couldn't protect me at all until he either broke into my home or harmed me. So they ask you to lay in wait, which is why there are so many women, in my opinion,

that get murdered and they go, well, she did complain about this guy. She did make calls to the police about this man and said that she was scared and nothing was put into place. So all these things start coming up in your head about all the times that he could have broken in and got to me. And what I found really difficult was

a lot of men in my life were like, oh it's just a letter and I wanted to know like how you deal with that kind of like where terror lives within you because for me it wasn't just a letter and every woman I knew went run and a lot of men I knew when oh I would have just had a word with him. Wow well firstly totally understand that and I'm sure women will empathize I often have this conversation with the women in my life we kind of had it in between episodes because you know part of me obviously understands and and gets the concern and the other part of me

worries a tiny bit about the, you know, extent of fear that's drummed up in these documentaries and online or whatever else, even though, of course, it is based on reality.

But if you're asking me personally, look, I've had issues with stalking before. I don't think I've ever actually told you, but I knew from just what I looked up on the internet that the police weren't really going to help that situation. It's very different for me because, yeah, stature and I probably feel more equipped to be able to defend myself but it is scary the

idea that somebody has like a fixation on you that's just that's just unsettling in terms of the terror it's a tough one because I think it's so dependent on variables I know there are a lot of young boys who live in particular areas where that feeling of it's my time will also exist for them you know yeah there's places where if you walk through and someone asks you what postcode you're from or in or whatever else, it can just be, you can just be in an issue instantly for no real reason.

It's actually the reason why a lot of young boys will carry weapons is out of fear. It's not because they want to harm other people. It's because they are too living in that constant state of anxiety. So I think it's really just to do with place, you know, history. But look, you know, that's just you asking me whether or not I understand it as a boy or a man I would in certain places at certain times.

Yeah, no, I've never really thought about that and I also didn't know that you'd been through anything like that. Yeah. It's just the idea of what can happen to you can be just as terrifying. I also, it triggered a really old thing for me because mum and I lived above someone who verbally terrorised my mother and I for 12, 13 years in West London.

Yeah. So for me, it was deeply triggering of something that made me not be able to. to live at home for a really long time on my own. It took me years to learn to live on my own. So I was just like, fucking hell, I've never been safe here. And then dealing with the post-traumatic feelings of all these ideas of the things that he could have done to me when I was there.

It just was fucked up. And the point is, I had to leave and I think he's still there. Yeah, that's rubbish. I'm so sorry about that. It's such a horrible, I mean, look, I don't know if it's like even worth discussing the process, the procedure. terms of like legality or intervention all i can speak on to that is this is a real obvious scenario in which it would be brilliant if there was some kind of you know a team of community

team of people equipped with mental health expertise to be able to intervene and help people feel safe in these scenarios because i'm guessing i don't know this for sure but the reason why it's quite a low priority for the police is because but again correct me if i'm wrong here but what I understand of stalking is you have to have your life actually under physical, provably physical danger. This is what, this is the really dangerous caveat. Which is wild.

You're like, so I have to wait to be hurt. And that for me did bring up all these stories of people that aren't just hurt, people that are killed because they've been told that they can't be protected until something happens. Yeah, it's ridiculous. For me, as a woman living alone, that was just like not an option to lie in wait every night in my own home.

It's actually, you know, when you said when you just play it out in black and white like that, it's just it is, it is insane and but I save myself that's what I mean like that's why I quoted Culeo okay yeah sorry

that was a complete misunderstanding I thought you were talking about finding internet no no no no I thought he was like really quite serious no it's really I'm sorry I had to move to my mum's

I had to evacuate I had to have like police protection to get out of my house and shit like it was fucking traumatic but I went through this thing of living with my parents and living with nanny

and being like what happened to my life and now I have this beautiful new flat that's the point I have somewhere I've learnt from this that you have to trust what's happening to you things are happening for you

not to you because I now see that letter that man's put on my door as an angel and a blessing because I would have still been there pretending I wasn't scared that's powerful but it's a new chapter

it's a new chapter all round and I feel so lucky that I've got this beautiful new place and it's really high up I've got this panoramic view of London which I really need I really use that to like dream and do shit and make things happen.

But moving house is a pain in the ass. I've done it like 15 to 20 times. I think this is like my, I think this is my 18th flat. No way. I mean, you, yeah. That's wild. You've moved quite a lot.

Or maybe you just had that flat and then you moved everything to Margate. I've moved like four times, five times maybe max. Oh my God. Oh, yeah, yeah. I lived in, I lived in Kenzel for like seven years. Easlington for like a year and a half and then now I've broken the rules

I've gone south of the river I know I love that you're south London because I want to actually ask when we do listen bitch next week I want to ask people a few more questions about who they are where they are what they have for their tea etc so let's actually just put into context

you know yourself now you live with your partner in two dogs and you're quite settled and your partner's having an unbelievable week last week shout out jade that showbiz baby number three say nothing say less biggest debut album of the year so far we'll say less we'll say less once we've said that

biggest album of the year debut debut highest selling debut album album 2025 which which is an achievement in itself because it's fucking hard to be a debut in this current music industry and it's hard to sell albums yo just look I'm so proud of her she's a style, mate. And yeah, I've seen her for about four minutes in the last two weeks, which is great. I'm joking. I'm joking. I've seen her for a day. But how's your relationship truly within all this? Because you're also doing the play. When we say she's doing a lot that I mean, every Instagram post is like different cities, promo. She used to do with her family. She's just all over the shop. And I've been doing previews for the play, which means that like I've been out at 11 and I'll come back in at 11. So even if she's in, I'll see her at like the lot, like for an hour and a half before we sleep. And then, and then, you know, You know, she'll be off in the morning. I came in Saturday night at 11 p.m. We chilled for an hour.

She woke up at 6 to go to New York. Oh my God, bye? Yeah, yeah. Like literally, this is actually international shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's killing it. But listen, I've also got this footage of her that I filmed when she was making an album just for fun, but I'm going to do something with it. And I've got video proof that she wanted.

She, you know, she has this desire to be working off of her feet. and I do hope that she doesn't maintain a desire indefinitely because there's got to be balanced but this is the kind of this is the belly of it you know she's right in it she fucking asked for it she asked for it she did ask for it no if she gets I do say it I'm I personally I'm the promoter of the other stuff but this isn't my life or career you know obviously I have my my needs for you know contact and communication and love

and I don't want to not see her for months and months but I understand the nature of the beast yeah she's playing the game bro she's in it right now man but um but i think she i what what i mean is i don't know if jade because she's just been doing the pop star thing like solidly i don't know if she has like cultivated that space of equilibrium like maybe silence and and chill whereas because i had that break before i i guess have rekindled my love for various things like writing or whatever else after we put rizzle kicks on ice i had like two or three years i don't know what the fuck was going on and so i had to kind of you know you know

I ended up adopting a dog and, you know, rescuing a dog and then being in Margey and and like there was all these moments where I just was getting to grips with myself. She's literally never had that and she's still, she's still an absolute legend, so that's pretty good. Can I ask, this is really serious, okay? You seem to not have any stroke of threat or jealousy about going out with someone who is extremely successful. I imagine makes more money than you.

Yeah, probably. And is... I had a good year, though. Probably. I really want to just throw that out flippantly. I'm like, I'm asking. But I'm talking about someone who makes, you know, a hugely successful pop star money at the moment.

Yeah, yeah. She's smashing it, bro. Right. I'm not Jade. Mm. But I've been successful for a long time with a big fat dip in the middle, obviously. Yeah. But whenever I've been with a boy, whether that be dating or a boyfriend,

I've never experienced this, Jordan. I've only experienced the opposite. Yeah. This is not so mad. I get asked about this all the time because I did, I said this. Because you're an anomaly. You're like an alien.

I said this on a podcast before and it went like super viral. And then like everybody was resharing the clip. And I was like really? I feel like I've said way more profound things in this podcast. Can we pretend that we've only said it on Miss Me? Yes. The only time I ever feel something towards like jealousy or envy is if I feel as though it's of people in my life or my friends.

like in my family if they get super excited about Jade they have to they have to leave like a decent percentage for me do you know what I'm saying like if they came in this week

if they came in this week yeah I'm opening the play this week if someone came in and was like and just spoke only about Jay's album for like two hours I would just be like that would be a mistake that would be a mistake

no but Tyson and Salasi are the same because Salasi is, you know, her boyfriend of, what, 10 years now, they have a baby. Everyone loves Salasi. There was a time about three years ago, Tyson would go places, people would be like, oh, Salasi not here. Or like, God, I love Salasi. And she was like, you have to love me more.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's tough. But you know what's mad about it, though, is that, like, actually, that's my ego speaking, you know what I mean? That's the ego that just like has this need for validation, especially from people super close. That's kind of the last frontier, isn't it? Last Bastion.

But the reality is those. people are actually doing, I believe anyway, they're doing it out of, it's an extended love for me anyway. Like if my family are going out of their way to praise the person I love, that's, that is an extension of, you know what I mean? That is, I would want that. You think of the other way. That would have been even more bizarre for my friends and family to just not engage with a person that I love. It's probably more important to me, I'd say. The irony is if it was just praise on me and then none the other way, I wouldn't like that. I'd feel mad, uncomfortable. That was quite interesting in Kenya then, I think, because there wasn't that many of us.

It was just me, you, Jade, Garfield, Uncle Nick, Uncle Chris and Mum. So I think it was like quiet enough for us to actually really get to know Jade. And then that love for her was about Jordan finding someone so bloody great. Yeah, yeah. So it was like both. That was really special to me though because, and I think she'll be okay of me saying this. Like, well, of course you would. I think she'd say it is that, you know, we're very different in terms of our social comfort.

You know, I have been thrown into rooms. with random people from like a young age and my mum definitely emboldened me to be able to go and I've always been curious I've always asked questions literally since as long as I can remember. Always been chatty. Always been chatty. And Jade's not like that. She's contained, she's shy

until she's comfortable is the thing. A lot of people fall in love of Jade because they see her being interviewed by people she's comfortable with and she says things because she's comfortable. And I can see the difference between her masking and just getting through it and her relaxed and being herself you know that's one of the beauties of being in a long relationship right yes and i saw it in

kenya she was completely relaxed and and excitable when you saw it you know she was yeah we're making scones yeah and i was like this is just means so much just to sum up in terms of the the jealousy of her being super successful and shit like that like sometimes i find it motivating there'll be things that she does where i'm like oh that's really cool i'd love to do that but i don't feel that in spite of her doing it. I feel it almost because it's like and then the other side of it is that for me personally I love not having to you know support someone because there's a lot of other people I support which I'm happy which I'm happy to do right no but that's interesting I really am happy to do but it's really like I've I can't jada's the first time that like I experienced somebody feel like they have

me as well you know yeah and that was like Jordan that was a really great feeling not that people wouldn't want to have me but in terms of support me but it's just the reality of the situation this is a very successful woman she's self-sufficient she's very generous she's got an incredible heart

you know that those are things that I was like oh this is great why would I be frustrated by this this is good yeah no actually this is this is really cool yeah no but I really am inspired

I'm like oh my God that I would love to date someone that was I said to Silu and my cousin the other day I'd love to date someone that just didn't bully me or belittle me because of like the success that I want of the success that I have and the success that I want and the things I want to do and Sullivan went oh god forbid support you I was like yeah it's mad that that's rare fuck yes and I'm not even jade but I guess like we're

talking about a bit of attention on the street and me having big dreams like that affects men not well I think it's got to be to do with purpose the men that I've been yeah no I hear what you're saying because I think largely speaking men's purpose seems to be derived from their you know material status which you can understand why you know and I think the difference is some people will argue is I have got purpose in my own right I am working and I know what I want to do and I know what I'm achieving and I feel like I'm evolving so as long as that's happening I'm probably not going to fall into like an ego world where I start projecting my own shit onto the person I'm around you know like I think sometimes what happens is somebody trips in their own ambitious pursuits

if they trip over or it doesn't work out and they're not anything. able to catch themselves, then maybe that's when they start to look and go, well, you, you know. So have you got a relationship that is the opposite to this weird Shrekking thing? Would you say that this is the opposite? You're going to have to explain this stupid fucking thing. It's not stupid, Macchio. I think it's quite smart. Shreking is a slang term describing the tactic of intentionally dating someone you are not

physically attracted to. Oh, I don't know it's physically. Oh, that's a bit much. In the hope that they will treat you better. Oh, this is worse than I thought it was. Oh, sorry. I got confused. I thought Shrek King was just going through the robbers.

Wow. Okay. And I hope they would treat you better or more gratefully than more conventionally attractive suitors. Oh, Lily does this. Lily does this. And she said so on the podcast. I'm not baiting her out just because she's not here.

Yeah. She says, she says, I like them to be a little bit grateful. And I'm like, no, I want to be the grateful one. You both should be grateful. Yes. Simultaneously. Yes. Wow.

Balance. Yeah. It sounds interesting. But I suppose if you were adhering to this ridiculous thing, then what you've done is the opposite. I know you fancy Jade from afar. I know you went for it. And you still go out with someone that you are immensely attracted to

who is a hugely successful person. Yeah, she's hot. So hot. It's totally hot as fuck. Yeah. But anyway, tell me about the Shrek. Not the Shrek, the Black Cat thing. That's what I really didn't like.

Nat, our producer came around here to help me set up my thing at home and told me about this black cat thing. Oh, my God. No, no. I think I know what you're talking about, but this is, again, hilarious because this is a Love Island reference. So I'm just about to rip you apart one more time. Oh, God, is it?

Black Cat, what, and Labrador? Yeah, Golden Retriever. So, one is mysterious and doesn't need much, and one's a needy bitch. Makita, if you seriously not watched one episode of Love Island? I'm like too busy watching. They're talking about Yasmin and Jamie. All right.

That means nothing to me. But go on. No, come on. Don't worry. Look, look. Let me be clear about this. Let me be clear about this, okay? I thought that Shrekking might have been the practice of working against our perceived type in order to feel better in relationships.

That's my dream way of Shrekking because that makes sense. This thing, what I don't like about the specific Shrekking thing is it does seem to be about look. like yeah that's a really weird way to go into dating like i think i'm better than you attractive attractively wise and i think you're lower than me that's not a vibe that's not a good energy to be putting out in the world this is this is so based around control like that's the basis for no goodness beauty is is so much more subjective than we give it credit for someone has become more beautiful to me in the middle of a conversation do you know what i'm saying oh yeah no but that's fact yeah yeah and i'm sure you're looking at this the reverse too i've someone has

instantly become unattractive the second they started speaking. God, yeah. There are people I've stopped speaking to men because of the way they started to behave and I was like, oh, no, but you're ugly to me now. You're like ugly. I see the ugly in you. It only came

with maturity. It only came with age. Someone not being kind is fucking unattractive to me these days deeply and kindness is very sexy. Let's have a break and hug our dogs. That's the relationship I've found. It's really quite fulfilling. I love dogs

I love dogs You won't let me do dogs For Listen bitch though You said every show does dogs I was just playing hard to get Okay, we'll do dogs in at the time Okay I'm gonna go hugs Eddie And we will see you after the break

If you've got a dog Go tell it You love it Get that unconditional love back Welcome back Jordan and Miquita. No, don't do that because that's really telly with me. Jordan Stevens and me, McKee's wrong.

Oh yeah, I forgot you're allergic to telly, even though you invented it. You literally invented Telly, Telly. You invented anti-Telly, well done. Congratulations. Okay, next. Next. That's all move on. I was with Divina the other day.

I love Davina. McHaw. Oh, my God. We're obsessed with Davina. What a woman. She is such a fucking pro, Jordan. We did this like 10 hours. was shoot we were doing this she's the goat she really is though and i and you know that i grew up with her

because she went out with namers dad bruce for six years when we were kids what's happened to the name bruce great name no young bruce is anymore so funny it's a strong name sorry carry and name as dad is such a bruce yeah he's like really tall handsome dark head uh you know best drummer in the world he was like in rick brigh and panning he's the drummer for pill he's a dude um but anyway devina and him so davina's like really big part of like our young, young, young life. And she was a stepmom of a kind to name her for years. And she hadn't seen Namer for years because when she left Bruce, she was a drug addict,

she was telling me all about it. And it created this big wound in her that she didn't really realize, which is she really felt like she'd abandoned Namer. And then in Glastonbury, yeah. And in Glastonbury, she saw Namer for the first time in like 25 years, or 30 years and just had this beautiful kind of return that she didn't know. Namer didn't even know she needed it. I've just been with her all day.

And, you know, she was in a long term. She was married and they had like three kids, I think. He was gorgeous. He was the very handsome vet from Pet Rescue. But their marriage didn't work out. And she's fallen madly in love with her hairdresser, who she's known for years called Michael. And he is just like such a vibe and like makes her laugh.

And she's just different now. And I said, what is it? And she said, I've met someone who is on the same frequency as me. We are actually inhabiting the same frequency. And that is very different to just, I fancy your face. Yes. The energy of being around those two is like nothing else. Deviner and Michael.

Yes. They're an incredible couple. I adore them. And they've got a beautiful family. And the funny thing is one of the worst aspects, and I said this on, again, similarly on one of these mis-meas, was the height thing. Like he's, I'm not sure how tall Michael is, but he's not tall.

Devena's tall. And again, seeing a couple. of that like illumination the level of illumination just makes these internet tropes seem so ridiculous like it really does and how much you'd be missing out on yes the shrecking thing in it's in its i guess most immediate definition or the one i just read on online i'm not too into the aesthetic element of that because yeah beauty is subjective also a lot of this beauty is still and two d by the way like if you're looking at pictures of people and you're judging Oh, this time on this dating app

I'm going to decide to swipe on someone I find a little less. Like you'd have no idea. You have no idea on any of these profiles. No, because this is why I hate dating apps because you don't get energy. You have no clue, of what this buzzer looks like. You know, some, yes, I too know loads of people

who look fantastic from one angle. Like, what are you talking about? Just from the left. Just from one fucking angle. Like, go outside and look at them. Yeah. Yeah, but show me your mess as well. I like to be near people and see their messy bits as well.

Frequency, bra, frequency. Let's move on to cyber security. I don't really know what this means. Tell me what you mean. See, this is the point, right? Heathrow Airport, amongst others, was hacked this week. Oh, that's really quite serious. Just to be specific, the actual cyber attack was on electronic checking and baggage.

But it's still airport. Still quite serious. It's still an airport. Yeah. It's still a computer system. inside an airport. It's weird to me that that's not more alarming.

And I guess the interesting conversation around it is you could extend this concern past Heathrow being hacked to just general internet stuff. Deep faking, for example, massive issue. There have been documentaries about the fact that

people are going to utilise AI to steal money for revenge porn for all types of different things. But it's just generally like a kind of unguarded, you know, virtual warfare. Virtual warfare, yes, that's quite good. Cyber security is interesting because it's really necessary and needed. And I would love, I'm sure there's people speaking eloquently on internet about

the types of people who are hired to be part of cybersecurity forces, the types of people who are hacking, fascinating subset of people, people who are incredibly gifted at hacking. Yeah, there was, whenever you say hacking, I just think of that film from the 90s hackers. Did you ever watch it? And they were kind of like all these like, cool club kids in New York with like Angelina Jolie and Johnny Lee Miller.

I'm guessing that a lot of the young punk hackers get picked up quite quickly and employed and paid a lot of money. So hackers are, you know, brought in now to become part of the establishment that they were hacking in the first place. Sometimes.

Sometimes. It's a bit like Catch Me If You Can. I'm not going to refer everything to a night. No, I don't think it is like Catch Me If You Can. He's not a hacker. Yes, it is. He's a con man. Yeah, but isn't that the 60s version of hacking? You know, he like makes his own checks. So you're talking about fraud.

Yeah. The 60s fraudster is today's hacker. No, no. If anything, people would say it can be the opposite of fraud. No, because you can use hacking fraudulently. That's it. Yes, he can. But it's not, but that way, which is often.

done but that's not I wouldn't say that is the definitive part of hacking that's not like what a hacker a proud hacker wouldn't be like yeah I love fraud you know I mean but I can tell you a story listen I can tell you a wild story I have a friend who's a hacker I'm not even going to get but it is we won't name him for obvious reasons I've been wet no I mean he's fine he's on the internet I can give like a code name anyway he's on the internet like a hacker wouldn't be on internet what a wild thing to say cause he is I've been dying to tell the story on the internet I've been dying to tell this story. Yes, tell me.

And I'm finally in a place where I can tell it. With me. You sure it's appropriate? I'm not being shoehorned in. No, check this. I've got to set the scene. I'm setting the scene in Keats, right? Yeah.

In my flat, the first one, no co-building. I can say it because I'm not there now. Me, you know, alone. It was a weird time of my life. But I had a couple of mates with me. We had, we were stoned. And we were watching supermarket sweep. This is an important context for how,

wild the next 30 minutes of my life is what happens to freelance creatives i'm not condoning the use of drugs um i just can i definitely do condone the watching of supermarket sweep i'm stoned watching people with giant inflatable vegetables and meat running around the supermarket okay at that point i get a text from my manager going have you changed your password and i was like what part what do you mean and he went just checking you've not changed your your password for like your any of your accounts and I was like, no, why? And he went, don't freak out. This is great start.

But you've been hacked. And I was like, what? What's been hacked? And he went, look, someone's on your Twitter. They've sent these silly tweets out. And I was like, what do they say? And he said, they've tweeted out going, oh, look, guys, me and Harley have been gay from the start.

We're in a relationship. Do, do, that. And I was like, okay. Juvenile bollets. Yeah, yeah. I've left my, I've logged in someone's house. I've left it on. Like, it's not that deep.

And he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all good. Don't worry. Five minutes later, he went, have you changed your Gmail password? And I went, why you keep asking my passwords, bro? Like, can we not just log out, change it? And he goes, yeah, the thing is, we've logged out, change the passwords and everything. And they're still in. And now they're tweeting at all of your fans saying you'll never get your account back.

And they're saying that they're in your computer. So I was like, oh, so hold fire. Hold fire. We'll see what we can do. This is the mad part of it. The person who worked our social media team has a friend who's a hacker. right he would come to our shows we're still friends he's great i'll finish with that part of the story but he we this these people who were hot but essentially holding an account hostage that

they're probably asked for money from the label i don't know it happened a couple of times i think it happens at brittany spares or something so we had him on our side so they're like we're going to hit him up let's call him zed let's hit up z and we'll get him to saw it out Zed hits me up, right? Bear in mind, I'm watching supermarket sweep stoned, right? I'm already freaking out. That's wherever your head's face.

I'm already freaking out. He rings me, right? Which is like, this is like, this is past Amber warning at this point for him to even be involved is an issue. He goes, don't freak out. That's like, okay. And he went, don't enter anything on your phone.

They can see your phone screen, right? I've gone, okay. Oh my God. Listen, Mr. Z, you're freaking me out, boss. What's going on? He went, no, no, no. We're going to sort it out. Just leave your phone for a bit.

It will get sorted, right? I'll keep ringing you because it's the only thing they can't deal with. Anyway, they end up in cyber warfare, right? He's got a second laptop out. They're taking each other's laptops out, apparently. Battling with laptops. These guys didn't realize that we had somebody who could hack on our side. So they start getting angry and sending each other like,

I don't know what it is. viral spyware. I don't know what they do. They're like fake emails. It's just wild, right? They're all working through VPNs. It was nuts. He's giving me a running commentary like, oh, I've managed to find their VPN in New Mexico, but I've balanced it back with a I don't even know what's going on. Anyway, this is what gets really wild. You're ready? So, during this madness, they delete all of our songs off SoundCloud, right? Wipe loads of stuff off our profiles. And then they upload one song to SoundCloud. And they send one link to a song on Twitter.

This song is by a rapper. This rapper happens to be one of the greatest hackers of all time. Stop. This is a real story. Mr. Z calls me and goes, did you just see that? That they bought they posted. And I went, yeah, yeah. And he went, don't worry, I'll sort this out within the hour.

It's done. And I went, what is going on? What's going on? He tells me that this greatest, one of these greatest hackers of all time, as a hobby, raps. These guys, while hacking our account, paid homage to this hacker by putting up his music, right? This hacker happens to be friends with Mr. Zed because they had their own hacking warfare back in the day. Right. Of course, they've got hacking history. They've got hacking history. So he hits them up. So bear in mind, all this has been done covert. Now,

big hacker of all time publicly tweets to these guys, right? And goes, hey guys, I suppose Jordan as a friend of a friend, so leave it. Dude, these hackers stop immediately. Give us all our shit back. Freak out because this Don hacker has stepped in and gone leave them. There's a hierarchy to this shit. Right, I was going to say so what

you really need to get to a hacker is a another hacker. That was my real baptism of fire into the world of hacking and the hierarchy. But check this, just as a cherry on top of the story, this is even more mad. Mr. Zed, right, a few years later, he put me onto the dark web. It's the whole other

story that and um and at bitcoin when i had the dark web a bitcoin was 12 pounds for anyone who's interested right so if you did want to get like something naughty off the internet you'd probably buy like a hundred of them you'd be so rich now but uh i didn't because i didn't um but at that time he was he was on this vibe and a few years later trump gets elected for the first time and i'm up in the morning and he's the only person online and i chat to him i go this is like years later that I'm this Trump thing. Isn't it a while that this celebrity is now present? How crazy is that?

And then Mr. Z goes, yeah, it is pretty crazy. I'm going to invest in some crypto real estate and da-da-da-da. And I'll see how it works out. Three years after that, I'd speak to him again and go, dude, how did that crypto real estate work out? Like, that was so mad that you did after the Trump thing. It's been nuts. They went, oh, yeah, I made $25 million.

Oh, my God. McKeecha. Yes, but isn't it fake Bitcoin money? McKeeah, no. He owns several properties. Yeah, but I wouldn't want to get rich like that, Jordan. Listen, he's a fascinating person to speak to because he's had to re-evaluate his entirety of life. Okay, anyway, we are so off topic, but thank you. I don't think I've ever heard so much about hacking.

Might have to go watch hackers now. Great film. Have you actually seen it? Oh, Mr. Robot. And no, that's not a good film. Mr. Robot is an accurate hacking series, watch it. And it's not a film. Oh, right? Yeah, that series. Sorry. It is a series. With Remy Thing and Me, Bob, right? Rami Malik. Yeah, Rammi Thing.

me, Bob. Hey, Neo was a hacker. Neo the singer was a hacker. No, Neo from the Matrix. Oh. Okay. It makes more sense. Hackers, 95 film.

Yeah, 95. Johnny Lee Miller, really young. Early Johnny Lee. Me and Namer used to love hackers and they all wear like kind of like parachute trousers and they all go raving and they all roller blade everywhere. And they like take shit down. Honestly, the 90s was just the best, bro. For films.

I really think 90s was the peak of human. humanity. I really do. I really think it's been downhill from 90s. We just, we peaked out then. Totally agree. Anyway, we're alive and well. I think we took some shit apart today. Fucking hell. All the places that our conversation went. Can we finish the episode with the hacker manifesto quoted in the film? I think that's a really good idea, Jordan. This is our world now. The world of the electron and the switch. We exist without skin color, without nationality without religious bias

and you call us criminals I am a criminal my crime is that of curiosity I'm a fucking hacker now too my crime is curiosity I can't stop asking questions that's my crime

that's my crime it's true arrest me I'm curious Take me to the cells. No, I am a curious fellow, so I fucking feel that. I didn't realize I was a hacker, but it turns out we have a similar manifesto. You have the spirit of a hacker, and that's all that's important.

Let me just learn coding now, and then I can really take down the world. Okay, let's go now, because I've got a busy day ahead, and you've got a bloody busy schedule, too. Yes, I have a play to perform that. Anyway, we'll talk again on Monday. Phyllis and Bitch, villains. You best believe I'll be pulling out some 90s classics for villains. Ooh. So we'll see for Listen bitch.

The theme is villains. Wow. Good luck tonight, Jordan. Thanks, Keats. Find some painkillers. Oh, thank you. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Mikita Oliver.

this is a Persefonica production for BBC Sounds. Hello, I'm Maisie Adam. And I am Susie Ruffle. And together we host the Women's Football podcast Big Kick Energy. The award winning. Oh yes, award winning. Yes, very much so. And we're your go-to gals for everything women's football-related

ahead of this summer's Euro. And beyond. Oh yes, and beyond. Yes, we intend to stay. We'll be covering everything. from the players to the games, to how the tournament works. To which team would be the most fun to go on a hindo with? Wales, obviously.

Oh, it's obviously Wales. Yeah. Listen to Big Kick Energy now on BBC Sounds. I think we smashed that. I think we did.