Miss Me? - Unschool Yourself

Episode Date: July 30, 2026

Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens reflect on the weirdness of making a podcast at times, and what they think schools should actually teach. They also get into why school didn't work for them and the lessons that could've made it better.Producer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Oliver Geraghty Assistant Producer: Katie-Louise Buxton Video Editor: Danny PapeProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Ellie Clifford & Dino SofosMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

An auspicious week, but also an unpredictable week. I guess it was, for me, personally, Jordan, full of extreme highs and unexpected extreme lows. It felt like what life is, but in seven days. Wow. Just like all of it in seven days. This last week's up there, I think, for me, in terms of, yeah, that experience. I kind of came back from, came back from the forests on the same day that, like my private life was like became a kind of public news story which is in spite of my years

as someone in the public eye to varying degrees I've actually never experienced um it's something I've never been in a high profile relationship really so yeah it's um I think like I'm very conflicted because I definitely um pride myself on being open and transparent and I like to pull apart experiences of my own in the hope that it can create insight or like create conversation but I think this is a difficult one because if I'm to believe how quickly speculation can arise you know I'm always like a couple words or sentences away from either making something worse or right so you feel like talking about it is sort of adding fuel to the fire yeah I think I'm uncomfortable with even the concept of it be

out. Like I think, you know, I don't know, I don't know what the root of that story is. I don't know, like, as in, I don't know who's spoken to who or whatever. But, like, I think it's just important for, ironically, the Miss Me listeners who have messaged me, I think people who listen to Miss Me would have a very unique angle on whatever's been spoken about. No, I mean, welcome to the hell and the beauty of Miss Me. It follows you everywhere. It goes through everything with you. Also, you know, like there's obviously sometimes it's easy to forget, I think, when there's these kind of bizarre alternate versions of people that exist within, like, other people's lives.

There are other people involved, obviously, like, and, yeah, it's like, I'm definitely going to talk and write, I think, once, like, things have settled a little bit. So I just wanted to, I guess, say to the mismeal listeners, like, obviously, I'm not going to avoid, like, something that's quite obvious, like, that's being a thing. I don't want to like pretend that that isn't happening or hasn't happened. But I also want to make it clear that I just is so bizarre. I honestly can't really. Yeah.

Yes. I can't put into words how bizarre. Like if I already had a preexisting, a preexisting apprehension on like celebrity culture, I think being in one moment like part of it in quite a like concentrated way, which obviously these things do dissipate, thankfully. It is like, it's left me, you know, I guess with more questions. I also, and I will say that I have, I have also, it has had some, had come of some surprising moments of like real authentic connection, which again, I'll speak about another time, but yeah, weird, mate, like weird seeing myself. Just fucking weird. Yeah, just people talking about

my life with, you know, some people will have, you know, have listened to a podcast, whatever, or else other people just literally have read a story and are just commenting, it's bizarre. They're people that we don't know anything. And I would like to believe that even though I'm a fan of people or I'm invested, I think it would be the argument to why celebrity culture exists. Like I'm invested in other people's lives.

I would also always hold like a kind of gauze in front of my personal investment on the basis that there's no way I could possibly know what's actually happening. Yes, if you didn't know that before, boy, do you know it now? Like actually, it's all just made up crazy, craziness and sort of like, I suppose, a sort of pantomime of one's own life. I've been acutely aware of, like, having a responsibility, especially with my own work and how I conduct myself my own work, because it just happens to fall into, you know,

more social conversation and, you know, especially stuff for men and boys. And for me, a big part of that is love and connection and whatever else. So there is this kind of added, it's very complex. Well, I'm happy you talked about it a little bit. Yeah. You talked about it a little bit. I want to, I want to, you know, I want to be, again, I'm a very transparent person and things will come out like when, when necessary. And I don't mean to be too cryptic, like it really isn't that deep. Like, whatever, whatever, whatever, I mean, it is deep for me. But I mean, whatever, I think it's really important to be, like, whatever you may think as a, as an everyday, as a normal human, like, we all are, like, about how complex and difficult relationships can be.

That's what it is. There's no, there's no difference. There's no, like, you don't get, like, any. exemptions, there's no like, like, unusual subjective feeling, like, when you have, like, also, like, have followers. It just doesn't work like that. It's very, grief does not, like, or anything like that or any powerful emotion doesn't discriminate. So, yeah. Anyway, I don't know, maybe I've even said too much right now, but my main point is I want to protect people. I don't want to, like, I don't want to, like, quite get into it. Maybe we can go on some tangent about celebrity culture, but that's about as far as I can go with that, really, I don't know. I've never been part of anything like that. I can't imagine how surreal it is.

And obviously I've been adjacent to it. And got a big dose of how surreal it was then. So I'm, you know, here for you. And I do think it was, I think it's really important to talk about how odd your life has become in the last few weeks and months. And I think that people understanding why you've been going on different adventures

and doing different things is because your life is changing. and you're just trying to adjust. I would love to be able to like bring more specificity and insight. But one of the most apparent difficulties in my life is that my, I am doing things that I care about and working in ways that I care about and those ways are very public facing. And that's a very peculiar way to approach complex emotions

because I don't want to perform anymore. I don't like performing. I mean, I like literally physically performing, but I mean, you know what I'm saying? I'm not going to be like, hey, hey. No, Jordan, actually, I think this is kind of, if I could in any way relate to what's going on with you in terms of feeling exposed,

I did how to fail with Elizabeth Day. I've actually had people message me about that, by the way, that you left such an impression. Yeah, it's great. Thank you. Right, okay, that's lovely. but I also, I know Elizabeth really well, and I'm in four to five different types of deep therapy right now.

Okay. And so I was just like chatting. And I didn't really realize that I'd said so much about certain things. I did, but I didn't really care because we do miss me. Makita, welcome to my life. No, but, no, but you can't say that to me because I'm like, this is my life. I spend my life talking about. Yeah, but there's your life talking about real, real, real things.

And that's like a whole, real, real, real. Yeah, but I get real, real or miss me. Come on. Like, the world knows about my sex stool. Like, I get to... Okay, you've proven my point. Okay, sorry. The world knows about my, you know, relationship with love.

Yes. And I've never been in love. That's quite intense for the world to know. Did you show with the world about your actual relationship as it was happening? No, I'm talking about... I'm just. I'm just saying. There are things that I would like to keep to myself.

Yes, I know. I've talked about on this to me, right? Yes. It was like quite intense last week. People go, the people stopping me in the street and people sending me messages. I was like, oh, I thought I just chatted some shit to Elizabeth. And then I listened to it. I was like, whoa.

So yeah, maybe last week was a very exposing week for both of us. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, good on me. I'm just like, where is my private life? So I imagine you feel that too. Yeah, honestly, I've still not. not processed it. I still, I still, and, you know, it's just like, I will say, I will say that I think

overall people have, is, you know, aside of whether or not it's based off of whatever, like people are kind, I've had, I've had some really kind, like, interesting things that have arisen, but. Of course, babe. People, people will be here for you. In truth, things go up and down and in and out, you know, like, you know, like, you know, all the time. Well, things are complicated and people are complicated.

People are complicated. One of the most calming things I've learned in the last few years is that nothing is ever as simple. Well, a paper has to make things simple. Finalize things. You know. Right now, I'm silent. Jade's silent.

The papers aren't silent and people are making all types of wild fucking, as they would always do. And, you know, desperately being like waiting for one of us to unfollow each other or waiting for, one of us to, like, the metrics are bizarre. So, like, even if I was to come on here and say, yeah, it's been really tough, like, bang, Jordan says it's been really tough. Why has it been really tough?

And then it goes, and then it continues. So that's, that is why, actually, Lily, for example, would say nothing or people, I mean, Lily was even more complex, but because people were just literally lying about her. But I think it's also really important to say that it's really complicated to go through something public, like Lily went through. and like you are going through now and have to do a weekly podcast. I think that's okay to just say

a weekly podcast about your life, about your feelings. Yeah, but for me specifically it's like it's weird for me because I actually liked I actually would talk about this shit. Like if I had... Yes, that's what I mean. It makes things complicated

because it involves other people. Yeah. You can call me later and we can... I mean, we have been talking. But that's maybe just for our private conversations. That's okay. But I pride myself on transparency. I think it's, you know, it's important to build trust of listeners.

If there was like a version of this where I've come on and been like, so, you know, Odyssey's a great film. Like, I just think, I haven't seen it, by the way. Don't say, I'm going to watch it tomorrow. I heard it's awful. I heard it's phenomenal. So that's interesting. Really?

I'd love to know who you told you it was awful. Well, maybe we could just do film chat for the next few weeks. No, but I'm just saying if I came on and did that, I don't, I think it would, I don't know, then I'm just living in a kind of like this weird, like kind of false pretense. People can assume things, but yeah, so I wanted to say something. Yeah, I'm really happy you did, darling. I'm really happy you did.

But now we can get back to podcast issues. Should we talk about the new natural history GCSE? Okay. Have you heard about this? Separate to history. Separate to, okay, so this is important, right? Because I was like, surely this exists, the natural history GCSE. And what would have existed is this, these things studied across science and geography, right?

But now this is like a focused new GCSE on the natural world around us. And actually from the government, what they're saying is it's to push greener careers and to push people into careers that are skilled and about being out in the world, which I love. Wait, hang on, let me say, this makes me want to go back to sort of. school and do a GCSE. That's like how excited I am about this. The new natural history GCSE focuses on UK wildlife and habitats, human influences on the natural world and broader environmental challenges like climate change and conservation. Fantastic.

And it requires into this a minimum of 20 hours of outdoor field work. Great. So this is like, you know, exactly. Because I see kids in like, you know, forest schools and they're being taken around. And I'm like, God, I would have loved that as a kid. So it's almost reversing what we do with younger children now to children in their teens. Sorry, younger people in their teens. And I've really liked this idea of like skilled work coming back.

This is literally against the idea of becoming an influencer. Like, get off your phone, go out in the world, see what's around you, see how you can help, how you can be part of it. Bill Oddy also died this week who was one of our greatest naturalists birders Is that what they call Birdwatcher? Oh it might be

Twitcher! No, birder and Twitcher. Birders a bit more highbrow Which is a shame because I would have loved Bill Oddy to come on and talk about birds like rest in peace Bill Oddy, thank you for so long giving us so much information

and adventure and wonder around the natural world. I think that's probably where we did learn before our natural history GCSE. Being outside. Oh, I was going to say telly. Oh, sorry. Because I feel like this is the David Attenborough GCSE, really. What, natural world?

Natural history, GCSE. Natural history, yeah, I guess so. I mean, zoology is separate, though, just to be clear. Yeah, but I didn't have zoology in secondary school. I know. None of us did. It's devastating. That's what I'm saying. So I was trying to figure out, like, I asked my assistant, I asked her boyfriend, I asked his mate.

I was like, where did we learn about insects and the, you know, terrains? Primary school. No, but under what subject? Yeah, nah, you're not really, what is that? Yeah. It'll be like a unit in geography or a unit in science and biology? In science and biology. I remember learning about photosynthesis and stuff in science, yeah.

Oh, that shit. But this is primary school, right? No, that's secondary school. I remember learning about photosynthesis as well. like a further. Because the thing is, I just, this stuff, I suppose it makes me excited, but it also really makes me sad

because I'm like, it's not, I went to a lot of schools, but I just didn't go to school that much. I bunked a lot. I was kicked out. I had big, I love school.

I disagree. I would go back to school for the natural history GCSE. I think this could be the most, beautiful thing to learn about. And I think it's going to be great for the young people of this country. Yeah,

but you know, it's like, it'll be like one of like 11 GCSECCCC. It's not like a singular GCSE, it's not like a degree. You'll be doing like an hour, maybe two hours a week. Yeah, but that's okay.

I just like that it's highly focused on this. Let me show you what the stuff they're going to be learning about because I think this is beautiful. Yeah. So they're learning about habitats and what, and this also is UK focused, right? So this is habitats and wildlife in the UK.

You're going to learn about grasslands, heathlands, wetlands, food chains, and food webs. I remember learning a bit about that. Adaptations of organisms. Yeah. Please. And then the second is human influence

on the natural world, biodiversity, urban development. I mean, I can already hear Monty getting annoyed about that. What would he get annoyed about? Human influence on the natural world. He would say humans are the natural world. Oh, of course he would.

We are the natural world. We're not influencing it. We're part of it. That's the whole problem. Maybe we're talking about our, previous negative influence on it and the way to... No, but we're not... It's on ourselves.

That's the whole point. Okay, we'll get Monty to change that one. No, no, but that is... But if you just... But even if you just adapt slightly, that perspective, everything makes a lot more sense, I think. Yeah, we are the world.

If you are an extension of your environment, then you're not causing harm to the natural world. You're causing harm to your world. Yes, it's a very good point. That's what Monty would say. That's why he doesn't like... like rewilding because it's saying it's removing our ability to create a more harmonious natural world which involves us engaging with it first. Like rewilding is the practice of rewilding is the practice of leaving land to do its own thing without human intervention, which I definitely think has some grounds.

I mean, I don't, I'm not an expert in this, but I know what Monty said, which is that there's no shame in a human being moving into an environment, looking, learning and. and becoming part of it and then implementing changes with our skill set, which is observation, imagination, all the other things, and then creating a harmonious thing. They could be a weed in that garden. There could be like an insect infestation in a real wilding environment, which damages it. And he's saying that we have the beautiful ability to actually encourage growth.

But it's like what Uncle Nick did on the mountain in Kenya. It was like land. that he let rewild, but then planted, I think he's planted over a thousand trees now, and let those things come together, and now the land has changed because of man and land's power to work together, even though it is one. It's one, yeah.

But I think that's what a lot of indigenous peoples believed. I think, I remember, I don't know, maybe I'm misquoting here, obviously I'm not, my brain's not working at full capacity right now, but like, I think, I remember hearing a story about when the Europeans came, came to, went over to what's now called America and the natives were there.

Apparently one of the things that was most perplexing to them was they didn't understand why they didn't bring the land with them, you know? It was like, how are you here? How are you here and you're, and every, where's everything else? Because they're, they're part of the land. They're part, like they'll use every part of the body

of an ox, whatever it was, they'd kill to eat, they'd eat it and then they'd use the skin and then they'd use the horns and it like everything was part of this huge symbiosis. So they're like, what have you done with all of your trees and your, like, you know, this is the whole, the conversation around. What have you done to yourself? Well, it's just this is the whole thing about colonialism, isn't it? It's like that you have the, I really don't want to get into this conversation now, actually, but, you know, you have the whole thing of like, why have you gone to somewhere else?

Because the irony is, you know, no one else was developing weapons to that speed because they were quite happy where they were. Because they actually had like everything. They had a lot of resources. But I think that the more. Well, some people. Sorry, I can hear people going. Maybe the more you learn about the land around you, the more you can believe that you are it as well.

Yes, which is why I don't like school. Yeah, but which is why it's great that school now has this lesson. Yes, it is. It's brilliant. I know, honestly, this is the best news I've heard for schools in the last, I don't know how many years because it's one of these things where it's like, it reminds me of there's a Superman film where, like,

a thing that I remember was Manor Steel or something, and he like comes to this place, whatever it is small, I don't know, Superman comes to this place. and he like saves a couple of kids whatever and then this evil guy comes from another planet and just smashes the whole place up and then he like beats up the evil guy sends him back but you're like well if you didn't come to smallville

then the guy wouldn't have come anyway so you've created the problem that you have to fix yeah my mum fucking love that but I'm just saying that like often in these hero films people are creating the issues that they're then solving right so it's the thing of like I've always thought school's weird because there's no I don't think it should be any shame

with a young person it looked being like working with the adults around them whether that's whether that's the benefit of being in a field or whatever else or even something else like carpentry whatever it is and then picking up that skill and actually being in the environment that they're surrounded by rather than being plucked out of it plunked into a neutral environment made to look the same as everybody told to do the same thing as everybody and then like for eight hours a day at the peak of their energy just force fed information that they might not even be interested in it just it just doesn't make any sense to me. We were lucky, Jordan. I wasn't lucky. I hated school. At least there were

two things trying to happen at the same time. Now, with academies. Do you mean academies? Academies, which what, 70% of schools have become, secondary schools have become these academies, and they are run like the army. You have solitary confinement. You have to walk in like orderly line. You have to have silence. Like actually, our schools were free compared to what schools like now. That sounded like my school, be real, man. Every academy that I've had an experience with, including the ones that we've done ropes with, are run in these ways.

Can I say, though, that my school is not far from that. I don't know what you thought. I don't know what happened at your school, but my school, you're in uniform. I was in Holland Park. It was quite liberal. You're walking in single file into class. You get punished to detentions, isolation, pink slips,

like, all that shit. All right, well, I'm very happy that there's a new GCSE, and it's made me possibly want to. to do a geography course in my 50s. Do you think school's important, generally, like how it's set up? Yeah, I think school's really important. About how it's set up with like, say you knew that you loved natural history, right? Let's say you knew that, like, as you've always loved the environment.

Why would you then have to go to all the other lessons? Because I don't think, I think it's important to learn about things that you don't think you're interested in. in. Why? Because you don't know what's there for you. I think curiosity is really important and sometimes people can be like, well, I'm only curious in this place. I only like music. I'm only good at this. I'm not good at history when there could be so many things for you to learn in history if you were just taught in the right way and just found what excites you and interests you. But that's, I come from a place where I'm angry with how much school I missed. So I'm always wanting to do quite basic learning, like geology,

Hamlets, just general geography. So I agree with you, I don't think school does that. That's what I'm fascinated is because you have this one sense of one in school, which I love, but it's almost like exists because you hadn't had that curiosity kicked out of you. No, all the people that stayed in Holland Park when I left,

Phoebe, Jesse, Charlie Robeson, they have conversations constantly about big gaps in my knowledge, and I know it's because I wasn't at school. Okay. Like really standard things. And I'll be like, I don't know anything about that. Okay, interesting. And they'll be like, yeah, you weren't in that class.

You didn't go to school for a year. Right, okay. And I hear that. I think in my, just to just to land, so I don't just sound like a complete lunatic on this podcast, my thing isn't that no one should have access to learning. My thing that I would wish, if I could, which I said to Zach Palanski actually on another podcast,

is I've always felt like school lessons should be, shouldn't be compulsory. I don't think that kids should be forced to do anything. I think that kids have much more of an understanding of what brings them joy and intrigue, and whenever that does occur, I think there should be adults that can facilitate that.

So I'm not saying that kids should only focus on one subject, but I'm saying that I don't know if there's a fair balance between the subjects that kids genuinely enjoy and the subjects that kids will then end up turning off to because they're being forced to learn it. You're more of a forest father. So when you want you to probably raise them in,

no, but like, seriously, you'll do it your way. Yeah, yeah, no, I don't want them to go to school. I wouldn't want them to go to school. I wouldn't want my kids to go to school at all. That's, no, no, but that's good to know. I mean, I think, is it illegal? Can you do that? Yeah, it's illegal, yeah.

No, I can't do that. Fuck sake. It's illegal in secondary school. I wonder if you have to, like, show the government, like, we have definitely studied these things this week. You can get accused of, like, child abuse and shit, I think, if they feel like it's, like, neglect or... It would be great, wouldn't it?

though to just like raise your kids like like like you know just like with the music of john coltrain and the writings of like virginia wolf i just do what you want my bias is that everything i felt i learned was extracurricular i picked up some stuff in school but i was just completely i was just constantly i was just constantly uh like got at by particular teachers and i just yeah and also i just don't get it like if somebody is good and love something so let's say science and there was a kid in my class for example, who's incredible chemist, why is he having to be in a class with somebody who just like has no fucking, does not care about science at all?

And it's actually good at something else. And so his learning is disrupted because of this idea that this other kid might like bichemistry if he just pays attention for five, or she, he or she pays attention for five seconds. I feel like there's an argument that like maybe it's important to sort of like us all to be around to each other as we learn about things that one of us is interested in,

one of us. Yeah, yeah. That exists in my school. Yeah, but there is an example of what you're talking about, which is Summerhill. In, in L.A.? No, it's in like Suffolk. Okay, cool.

A free school, yeah, sick. And Flynn went there, name of son. And this is after he had a lot of problems at school. He went to a Steiner school. He went to normal school. He had a lot of problems. And this Summer Hill is all about what are you interested in? You focus on it.

And Flynn was interested in fabric. What's it called? Pattern Cutting. And then did it extremely well, then went to Central St. Martin's did extremely well. And now, you know, it's like fucking working and just killing it. Right. So, no? So there is an argument for both. Because what would I have done?

I would have been like, oh, I'm interested in like, because that's the thing. If they had asked me what I was interested in, I wouldn't have known I was interested in history and geography. And I just would have thought I was interested in English. So in my hypothetical world, Keith, right? you're there and your hypothetical school school right and like everybody is doing

what they want first you have to remember that so the first thing is play right so you'll be engaged with the kids in the school doing whatever you guys decided that could be so that could be that you set up some like

extravagant game or even some story where you're playing a character and then there could be one kid who's like damn like what actually how did they actually make ships like we don't even know what these how to make these things like what like let's let's ask this adult like let's let's learn about shit it comes up

it comes up naturally from the circumstance because if if you are voluntarily engaging with learning I feel like you're way more able and also this is this is slightly my my opinion has been slightly bolstered as a as an author I'm acutely aware of like a declining reading rate for example with boys right and I think a massive part of that is they immediately associate reading and words with being examined or like in some cases punished. You know, like even detention is like writing. You're making someone hate writing. Yes.

Because you're making them write something again and again and again or whatever, lines, whatever, that's what we used to do, lines. So it's like, I don't know, man, I just, I... But I think in school, what they're also trying to show is, uh, or implement, is this idea of order, exactly. Yeah, but that's, that's not for our benefit. Order and, and regime. That's not for our benefit.

No, that is not for our benefit, but it's for the benefit of society. Is it? You know, go, yes. I mean, not beneficially, but it's like the idea that we keep people in like, in a space of like, you have to work in this way for this person. Be miserable. Yeah, not take risks. I don't know.

I just, I've, yeah, maybe I, listen, maybe I'm, maybe I'm a hippie. But that's why I want to go back to school and do a master's in geography. A master, but that's not school, but like, yeah, like, that would be... Yeah, I have to get a degree first, I found out. Yes, yes. Well, either you'd have to get a GCSE before the degree. I'd be totally fine, starting from the bottom up. Like, I want to learn from the beginning up.

I like, for me learning how towns and cities were made and built. Yeah, but Keats, you can do it. You don't need the school system to do that. You have access to all the information. Like, you can do that. And that's what I love about you, by the way. You are, this is what's so fascinating. You're sat here as somebody who says that I wish they went to school and you're arguably the most curious person I know

The people who did go to school don't ask any fucking questions Why do you think that? You know it actually says curious behind you Yeah, I know But but but it is it but that is that's a fit okay and I'm generalising obviously there's still curious people who went to school I'm hoping myself being one But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I think that your curiosity is a wonderful wonderful asset to you as a human being and it is nice It's cool to be in like a format and there might be an in inspiring teacher, which is great. I fantasize about that. I fantasize about doing a creative

writing course, not because I need the qualification, but because I like the idea of a community that have a singular focus. Like, that's cool. Yeah, well, I want to, yeah, single focus. Also, I want to go to a place five days a week. Like, my friend did a master's. Yeah, yeah. It's just the regularity of it. He had to go to Royal College every, every day. And I love that, that kind of, like, that school regularity and routine because that's really what I never had I just was in so many schools

never really going and taking big chunks out of school and I even knew then I even knew then I remember being like 13 and thinking this is a really isolating way to grow up everyone's at school and I never am

but I mean it was like definitely my life path but yeah I just didn't I didn't enjoy school Do you know what? So actually, Ropes has been a huge example for me of studying whatever I felt like. I suddenly realized that I was really, really curious and really interested in design.

And that's not something I would have ever, like DT at school. I was like, I don't give a fuck about design technology. But actually, I love design and I love advertising. Like not marketing, but I love the history of advertising and how it's for. No, I think marketing. Marketing's fascinating. Fascinating.

Fascinating. And yeah, so when I was building ropes, I wasn't like, right, right, I want to build a brand and be like the face of a brand. I was like, no, right. Okay, well, if it's a product and I've got this idea, let me study design. And what I learned from design was really interesting. I thought it would be the study of things. But it's actually the study of people. Design is about empathy. It's not about how we use things. It's why. Why we sit. Not how we sit. Why? Why do we pick things up? What is connected between mind, body and soul, spirit, a touch, it's about the senses. Love it. It's fucking fascinating. Actually, I will be putting some of the places where I learned some of the greatest things on our Patreon. I won't say what it is, because Jordan will tell me that I've lost us another 20 quid. But I've watched so many great documentaries about design.

So many and great films. I love that, though. I love that you, but you. you've come to that conclusion in an organic way. And it sounds, and you're like, I get that's passion. I love that. I absolutely love that. And I would love to find in my deep recesses of my memory,

some kind of parallel to the passion in which you just spoke about design. And any of the 15 teachers that I had or 20. Yeah, and the 17 jobs you have. Like, I literally, like, what when, I mean, I think there was three. I can think of three teachers, but I will say. But you have, though, darling, in writing. What do you mean? Well, writing was something that was possibly in your school life.

I don't know how you felt about it there. No, I didn't. I missed all my targets in English. I had zero. Exactly. No, but this is my point. And then in old, and then in your later life, you return to it. I didn't return to it.

I was doing it after school with my grand. I was writing in places that made me feel happy. I was learning about writing at a pace and in a way that brought me joy. At school, we read Catcher in Array, Mice and Men. Like we studied that woman who was doing poetry. I don't know. Like it was cool. I had one teacher who was kind of cool.

What Elizabeth Barrett Browning? No, it wasn't her. And I sat, you know, mostly I can remember from English just sitting next to a girl I fancy. That's literally like my biggest memory of English. And by the way, this was my favorite thing in life, like was words. And I don't remember even being that compelled by the class.

And, but can I say, for the teachers out there who are willing, because teachers don't get paid enough at all, right? The teachers who get paid what they get paid and still turn up to class, especially to younger people with passion and with like a genuine like desire to like help guide the young. Like you're a fucking legend.

I just want to make sure that I just want to make a clear differentiation between school, schooling, the curriculum, the governmental intervention and teachers who care about things. Like if you're my design teacher and I'm sat there and you've gone, guys, it's not about drawing. It's about why are we making the drawings? Why does that person, like that already to me is like, oh my God, you've already opened my mind. I'm there.

I'm with you. That's a beautiful thing. The school of why, Chorton. School of why. The school of why. That's what we could call our school. Which doesn't, by the way, I wouldn't say that's indicative of the curriculum. Why?

It's this and then repeat. Totally. Step and repeat. It's like this, how good your memory? Yeah, and it's interesting because the minute you start learning about history and you're not told the why and just the how, you're like, I'm not interested. And then it's like, why did Hitler do this? Well, great choice.

I'm not that one. Yeah, but like, there's an incredible book about, you know what's so fascinating? It's an incredible book about script writing, right, called Into the Woods. People who are like wanting to write scripts, I would strongly recommend it. And the reason why it's still so coveted in this world is because of what you just said. into the woods explains to you why people write books explaining to you how to write. It doesn't it tell you, into the woods goes, why are we telling that story? What is it about human connection that brings us to tell that story?

Why, when we're writing dialogue, for example, we're not writing what we want. If we're writing two people talking to each other, we're not even writing what that character is actually feeling. We're writing what that character wants the person in front of them to hear them say. So it's like once you understand those, those, those, like in a way, workings, you become more invested in the process because you know it's fabric. Like, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, I think that's why Lee Strasberg changed the study of acting because it was more about inhabiting the why of everything. Yeah. Rather than the motivation of the acting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where you get

incredible improv because people are just in it. Method, motherfucker. I think method is a different form. But I know, I know, I know what you're saying. I know, method might maybe is a different. Yeah, yeah. yes, you're right. That's live the character, never leave it. Yeah. Alan Watts, oh by the way, side note, if anyone wants a bit of a laugh, look up Brian Cox talking about Jeremy Strong. It is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life. But... Is he cussing him? Constantly. Constantly. He thinks it's a joke. Oh yeah, I love Jeremy Strong. You think he's a dick. I don't think he's a dick. I think he dresses awfully. I just think like I'm perhaps siding with Brian Cox slightly more in terms of

of like some of the pretentiousness that comes with the concept of being method. Why are we talking about this? Don't get frustrated about the... Train of thought. We're just letting it be. This is the new... we spoke about this. We just got to let it be. Alan Watts, famous philosopher, he says, the thing about grades is that they're disabling. Really and truly, if you're learning a subject, the reward is that you know about it. That's it. They shouldn't be grades. If you're learning French, the rewarders you know

French. If you're learning about writing, the rewarders that you can write, you're competent at You shouldn't be given a grade. I know people need it to employ whatever, blah, blah, blah. But it's like ultimately, if you want a skill, just do the skill. Okay, I need to know more about Alan Watts. I thought you were talking about Neville Goddard, who I love, who I've been doing lots of teachings with this year. But I love it.

What a dude, Alan Watts was. Get in with his, like, hippie beads and his pipe. Love this guy. Yeah, Alan Watts is on smoke. And popularizing Buddhist, howlist, and Hindu philosophy. for a Western audience. Born in Kent, died in California, motherfucker. This guy had life.

There's always your music online where it's just like ambient sounds and his talks just over the top of it. A lot of people go to sleep listening to him. Well, that's what I do with Neville Goddard, but Neville Goddard can be a bit lectury. He can be like, the time is now. There is no difference between.

I'm like, it's a bit harsh. He's chill, mate. Alan's mad chill. He's mad chill. Big old AWATTS. Yeah, okay, mad chill. I'm going to do some Alan Wattsing, Yeah, Alan Watts is a vibe, bro. Like, he's, he, I'm sure I've implemented many of his words into, like, my outlook on, on life because I'm kind of going down a similar path of intrigue to him.

But obviously he's, like, certified. But, um, he looks like a curious motherfucker. He's a curious motherfucker, yo. That's all I want to be. I have made ropes my school. And now that it's, like, out in the world and we're selling ropes and it's like a business and it's real, I'm like, oh, okay. This is it. Like, if you get like, I need to know everything and I'm in business, you're fucked.

You need to just stay curious. You need to stay curious. Can I tell you if I did have to, if someone came over to me and said, you have to teach lessons, right? You have to teach lessons in teenage years or whatever. Can I tell you the lessons that I would implement? So you've got natural history, I agree. If you can leave the school and study field work, great. That's so much better than being sat on a chair for eight hours.

The other thing would be history of sex. Fuck yes Like I would teach that as an actual thing I heard us saying that on foreplay the other day And I was like That is actually a brilliant idea Yeah yeah for real We're gonna do it Miss me Live History of Sex

Emotional Interpersonal Relationships Would be like probably the most That would be like the biggest Lesson Especially now with the With how quickly technology is advancing And then of course

The last one would be Personal Finance Uh, martial arts. Okay. I'm being dead serious. What a fucking amazing school. I love the school of Y. Yeah, martial arts.

And you could spell it with just a why. The school of why. Right? And then I would add, when I'm a visiting teacher, personal finance and class, the study of people and class. I think would maybe solve. everything. Me and Lily talked about it. I miss me in a really early episode and I really enjoyed it,

breaking it apart and sort of looking at the structuring of it and the formation of class and what it's meant to have represented in the past and how those ideas have carried on. I think it's left quite a lot of kind of murky attitudes to all different types of people and if we could kind of learn more about, well, it's almost like drug legalisation, which we will be talking about Listen, bitch, it's that idea of like when things were put in, when a decision was made about something and what that was meant to mean then and how that has trickled over into not really meaning anything now

but still having these like roots and this archaic idea of something. So I think that would be really good for people. It's almost the study of people. Well, no, that's why I would be meant by interpersonal relationships as a big part of education just in terms of building compassion and empathy. Well, that's why we're both the headmasters of this. of the school of Y.

Yeah. Where should we build it? Hampshire. Thailand. Right, yeah, then that's where we'll differ. I want it in the English countryside and you want it in like Peru. I'm actually loving the English countryside right now, to be fair. It's way better than the city.

The peaks have done it for you. Excuse me. Are you going to say you're proud of me, by the way, for launching my business so successfully? Didn't I said it to you last week? I said no. Well, it would have been like, it just happened. Now it's like been out for a week. Yeah, I'm still proud.

Still proud. I'm just going to put this into perspective for you. Just so, just, just, just. I know you've had a hard week. You're asking me from this last week, why I haven't rung you to congratulate you more about ropes. Is that what you were saying? Yeah.

Okay. Yes. Fair. You know, just take your minds off things. I don't know, man. I just, for some bizarre reason, I think I've just been like, I don't know. Other things on your mind. Other things have been happening.

Yeah, it's so weird. Well, Lily Allen did call me. And she was so sweet. And it meant so much to me. She said it meant it. She said, McKee to sit on something for five years, to stay in production for years and years, and then put it out. And she was like, I'm so proud of you. What the fuck else can we make

retractable? And I was like, yeah, good point. Penises. Maybe I'll just make lots. Oh, they are. Sorry, they already are. They actually are. What else can be retractable? Uh, cutlery. No, no, no, no. It's not actually a question. If I'm going to do it. If anyone's going to do it, I'm going to do it. What are you going to, like, go into a retractable universe, like a, like a multiverse of retraction. No, I'm just going to build ropes. You know what I would love to be retractable. Go on. Life choices. I'll work on it. I'll see what we can do. Ropes, life choices. Secondary, secondary company. So we'll see you for this and bitch next week. But well done today.

It's not easy. I think you're doing great. I think I've been pretty poor this episode, but I hope people will give me some grace. I'm sure they will, babe. Yeah. It's life. in it. Do you want me to sing Desiree life, oh life, to end? Yeah, sing it, go on. No. Go on. That's not why I wasn't gonna sing it. Well, maybe I'll say it.

Life. Oh life. Oh, life. Wait, Clara said that to me the other day. Did you get that from Clara? No. Did she quite Desiree to you? I'm so confused. She said she did exactly the same thing as you just then.

Alright, well, I need to get some new material. I got Clara, ma'am. I love you, Clara. Shout out, Clara. Massive Miss me fan. Okay, I'll let you go live your life, my love. Take it one day at a time. Cheers, yes. And then I'll see you for Listen Bitch on Monday.

See you, listen, bitch. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persefonica show.