Miss Me? - You’ve Done Nothing Wrong (with Simon Amstell)

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

Simon Amstell joins Miquita Oliver and Jordan Stephens as they reminisce about friendship, career validation and vanity.Producer: Natalie JamiesonTechnical Producer: Danny PapeAssistant Producer: Caillin McDaid Video Editor: Danny Pape & Jasper Fell-ClarkProduction Coordinator: Tom JacksonExecutive Producers: Ellie Clifford & Dino SofosMiss Me? is a Persephonica show Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Probably the truth is that we brought each other up a bit. You're in my head. Sometimes I'll write a character who's a bit like you, and you're very easy to write because you're just there. Oh, Simon. I just want to talk about vanity, right? I've got my legs out. Like, why have I got my legs out to take?

Because they're gorgeous. Because I have gorgeous raised legs. Oh, my God, I want to lick them. Thanks, Simon. And I did all those exercises, and I thought, this is okay. Then I fell down the stairs. Saw my arm when I got home, it was like this withered mess. And I thought, oh my God, I was perfect.

So it comes for you, the vanity. And you have to be so careful because it can sneak in. And break your arm. We're not waiting for a BAFTA to be happy. Death is coming. I'm not. Death is coming. Joy, your life.

You're alive right now. You've got working limbs. Welcome to Miss Me from so many different. corners of the earth. It's incredible. It's like we're talking to different cultures, different creeds, different classes. I'm in London. Jordan's in London. So it's not those two. The very special person that's joining us today is not in London. And it feels like we're really stretching out across the country. Maybe not the world, the country. The person with us today, Jordan is,

oh God, probably the man that made me. Can I say that? Wow. Wow. Big statement. So what's your dad? Yes, no.

Apart from both of my fathers, this is the man that made me. Right. Okay. My third father, his name is Simon Amstall. Wow. I know.

I don't know if I want to be your third father. Why not? You know about community, Simon? What do you mean? It involves me being somebody's father, despite not providing any sperm for the conception. No, it doesn't have to be like biologically paternal. It's also not just somebody. If you don't see me as your child, then I don't know what the fuck we've been doing for the last 25 years.

If I don't, no, how do I see you? Friend? Can't it be friends? You guys in same age? I'm older. Simon's five years older than me. Okay. Yeah.

Congratulations for leaving and abandoning the BBC just when they really need such a thing to happen. What do you think about our move? Because I was really scared. Look, if you know, look, if you like money, you like money. We can't argue. We can't argue with this. But anyway.

Wait, hold on, which version has the money? It doesn't surely the one way you have a Patreon subscriber thing has the money. Oh, at some point. Listen, if you want to find us on Patreon, go on patreon.com forward slash miss me. and then click on the link in the bio. Do it. It wasn't a money.

It actually wasn't, though, that's not, that's a little far off in terms of equalizing out. Go on. The money was actually why we stayed for so long, personally. That's true.

Well, I guess safety is why we, safety and security is why we stayed. And that doesn't, I don't think that equates to a big, dreamy life. Do you know what I mean, Simon? You've got to take risks. Sure.

Simon, this is precisely why you are also going to be doing something for our Patreon is to actually try and get back to that BBC money. I hear you, I hear you. I understand what you're saying. Look, I'm just very happy to be here. We're going to leverage your internet. Internet?

Intellect. Internet. Intellect. Witt. Oh, yeah. Dry, dry humor. Sure. Spirituality.

Yes. As two people that have been to see the recent tour, the recent show, I love it here, both sides. Both Jordan and I went different times and a huge fan, huge fan of everything that you're doing, Simon. Thanks. Why don't we do five minutes of just you saying what you like about me and then I can just relax? Yes. You can really feel relaxed.

You liked the show, you laughed. Actually, Jordan, you were the best audience member I think I had for the whole residency. Really? Yes. Because you were just there. You weren't just laughing. You were like leaning. You were leaning forward.

You were nodding. I just thought you understood me. Yeah. I was like really into the bits between the jokes. I hate to say it. Oh, do you, do you mean that? The philosophising. Right, the philosophising, absolutely.

And also the fucking song at the end is genuinely amazing. Like, I was like, what the fuck? I forgot about the song. So, yeah, I was, it was also very funny, but I'm afraid I was, yeah, equally enamoured by, but I was semi-prepared for that because of your last show, you know? And I remember watching a last show and being like, my God, I'm aligned of Simon.

I didn't really think that, you know. I was just used to watching highlight reels of you insulting celebrities. So have you and Simon, I'm still in Jordan Stevens, two very important men in my life, have you ever spent time together alone? No. Wow.

We spoke after the show, right? Yeah, it was lovely. I think you were there on the last night of that. Yeah, I was. I definitely was because I was shitting myself. I was going to miss it. Yeah. Oh, Jay.

And can I say something that I loved? Oh, and then I did spend, I did see, I did hang out of you at that. birthday party, Archie's birthday party. Who the fuck is Archie and why didn't you see each other at my birthday party? Archie, Archie Medecoe, yeah. Talking about famous people that you both know. Got it. No, I'm just saying that's fundamentally we were there, we sat and we talked.

Yeah, we did, we did. Actually, that's the most time we spent together and I really enjoy it. You, I think you made the party, I would say, for me. Thank you. Wow, should I leave? Vice versa, vice versa. Should I go? No, no, you must stay. Do you remember I actually got hit on in the middle of our conversation?

Do you remember that? Go on. What happened? I know, you don't remember. It was so surreal. It was really surreal. I just, this girl just came and sat in between us. You don't remember?

Sat in between us. Yeah, in between us and the middle of a conversation. And did she make, was it clear that it was a flirtation and not just obnoxious? Well, I don't understand what, it was okay. So can you run me through how that would be innocuous? Sorry, obnoxious. Oh, obnoxious. And I think she was on mushrooms.

Oh, well, fair enough. But it was a very lovely vibe. And then it wore off by the end of the night. And I could tell she wasn't on mushrooms anymore. No, she was probably ought to come down. No, no, no condoms of mushrooms. That's not true. That's not true.

It's true. It's literally true. It's literally true. It's literally true. There are no condoms from mushrooms. Not in my experience with mushrooms. You might have had a bad interpretation of a trip. But physiologically,

physiologically, There's not a chemical imbalance come down, like when you've been on base speed all night, but there was... I did feel like shit. There's a realisation of your subconscious. Yes. Tell us about the night on base speed. If only it was one night. Oh God.

If only it was one singular night. The fact that it specified the speed as well as fucking wild. Yeah, base speed was a real thing. No, I'm so happy that I did all those horrible hard drugs for a lot. horrible hard drugs for us and you guys sort of did all the beautiful and what you're talking about i've done crystal meth sorry you're the middle simon's the simon's spiritual psychedelic side and i'm and i'm the sort of genesis sorry i've also done this the psychedelic stuff that's what i mean that's what mean you've done it all simon's done one side i've done one side and you've done it all it could yeah i'm i'm

the addict yeah oh no simon no No, Simon doesn't have problems with addiction. I've always been very jealous of it. Well, I quite liked chocolate cake a bit too much for a while. It's real shit, man. It's real shit. But Simon, that's vegan chocolate cake. I mean, how dangerous can it get?

Hello, sugar is vegan. I don't know, last time you checked keats. Oh, yeah. That's true. So no eggs, but tons of sugar. You have to be careful. You have to be very careful. Well, I'd like to say just quickly what I loved about the show,

and then I'd love to talk about your veganism. Okay, let's keep them listening. Do you know what I'm saying? Do you know what I'm saying? Let's hit all the points. Go on. Let's discuss, go on. Number one, what I loved about I love it here was this framework of the kind of, well, it's a true story.

So the framework is complete truth, which is exciting. And it's a sort of evening in America with lots of cultural figures, actors, musicians. And it kind of frames the whole show. You keep returning to this one dinner where. extraordinary things continue to happen. So it's got this kind of almost like Abigail's party energy, but with like Viola Davis, which I love. And I loved that framework.

It gave it this maybe not Mike Nichols. Yeah, maybe Mike Nichols. But sort of like it felt like there was a play within a play within a play, which I quite like. That makes sense. Yeah, I mean, you said you liked it. That's all we really need. No, let's dissect it.

Why did you framework it like that? I thought it was very modern. And as a comedian in the modern world, you really do have to keep it moving, right? How do you stay relevant, independent, modern? I think I just, I came home from Los Angeles with this story and it was just such a good story. And I suppose for people listening,

I should give a little hint of it. It was about being invited to a party. Although I was the plus one, but my friend said, do you want to be my plus one at this party where the invitation says, Leonardo DiCaprio invites you to? And I didn't want to go. I was feeling really at ease of myself in this house on the beach, and I didn't want to get into being in the same room as my sexual awakening.

Absolutely, that's quite a lot of pressure. I had an inkling that another pop singer who I developed a little crush on a while ago would be there as well. He turned out to be there. So the whole night was like, um, it was like being 17 again. And when I saw DiCaprio for the first time in real life, I started giggling. And it was my 17 year old self giggling because he couldn't believe that he used to have to rent out Decaprio films and masturbate in secret. And now I have the opportunity to tell him. Yeah, exactly. Now I can just sit him down. and let him know.

Because I was telling Jordan the other day about when we were talking about what we wanted to talk about in the show, and I was saying that it's not as frivolous as it may seem. I mean, you've just used the word sexual awakening,

so there's nothing frivolous about it at all. But Jordan, what I was saying was when Simon was growing up, this idea of masculinity was fucking action stars. It was like, what's that guy called Stephen Seagal and Arnold Schwarzenegger?

Yeah, I'm very confident that Stephen Seagal wasn't like a, uh, it wasn't even more than like a guiding light for masculinity. I think he was quite quickly a joke. I agree, I disagree. That's definitely what we thought men were. Okay, who's we?

Me and my household. Oh, right. Wow, no, no, that's actually dope, great. It was like Arnold Schwarzener, it was like big, beefy, musliny men, which I imagine Simon, you weren't at all. So the arrival of someone like Leonardo DiCaprio into the world of sort of a place where sexuality, what, like this is who is now sexual, this is now who is... Oh, you think he's the O.G. Sweet.

boy. What are you saying? Yeah, OG sweet boy. I'm not sure, but is that true? I remember, I remember thinking, maybe Johnny Depp. That I was supposed to look like one of the wrestlers on the wrestling shows. You mean, yeah, WWH. Triple H. And then when DiCaprio arrived with that, uh, you know, slim body, I thought at least, well, I have this, I have the same sort of nipples as that guy. Like that, that's interesting. Yeah, it was freeing. I thought, oh, I could be that, I could be that sort of thing, maybe. And then maybe I decided to straighten my hair.

Do you remember this time, Jordan? How old were you when Romeo and Juliet came out? No, I was like, when what came out? Romeo and Juliet. Oh, like four. Babes. Wait, no, was I four? No, no, sorry, that's not true.

When it came out in early 90s? 1997. 97, yeah. Or a year after Space Jam. Yeah, I was five. That answer says how old you are. Yeah, I was five. I don't think I was really looking to films for like a guiding light on like what

masculinity was. But it's interesting he shows those beefy guys because when I was a kid it was just Bond and Bond was never beefy. I guess Bond wasn't very beefy, he was suave. I didn't really ever think Bond was a real human being. So it was kind of irrelevant, I think to. Yeah. Well, I didn't, I mean, not in terms of like, but I mean, in terms of he was just invulnerable. Yeah, yeah. No, it does, it seems ridiculous. Have you seen a Stephen cigar film? No, I've never seen a Stephen cigar film. No, me neither actually, but I can, I imagine not seeing one is pretty much like seeing one. I think I get it. I just like, all my memories of Stephen's

Sigel was just literally laughing at him. Yes. That's all my early memories as a kid. Like there was one quoted in a film where it's like, I'm going to take you to the bank senator, the blood bank. I don't know. I mean, if you look back on it now, I'm sure that stuff has dated terribly. Yes.

I love Jackie Chan when I was a kid, man. Just kicking everyone's up. But also, importantly, Jackie Chan got injured. Let's be clear. This is why Jackie Chan was a game changer because he was fighting, but in the choreography for the fighting, was getting hit. I was unusual at that time. Just saying. What, like, allowed himself.

Allowed himself to be hit. He was more engaging with the audience because you could tell that like the fight was was real because people were landing punches on him and he was tripping up and he was falling over. It was like the choreography is genius. Prior to that, it's just people like one person is battering everyone. That's, that's it. That's just it. That's like one person is winning. That's it. I imagine martial arts films. Go a bit over your head, Simon. Or did you have a martial arts film phase? I was actually just thinking if we could just bring it back to my show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Sorry, we've derivative way too far. Because I do have tickets to sell. We did the U.S. and C. Wait, what's the next one? What does you call it? You said it really nicely yesterday. I'm just doing seven major cities in the UK and then New York and Los Angeles. Oh, you're expanding?

Yeah, I thought I would just do London, but then the man said I should go to some other place. The man said, here's some money. Go other places. And the, you know, good, it's generous to give people laughter and joy. It's a role, it's a duty, actually. It's sacrificial, if anything. It's a calling. It's a calling. Absolutely. And who are you to turn against God? Who are you to turn it? Yeah, it's against something higher, you know, beyond you. I have to do this tour. Is what you said. I have to do it.

This is bigger than you. Okay. Yeah. It begins. I'm doing three nights in Bristol as God commanded. As God commanded. As God commanded, motherfucker. Um, no, not ask. I'm going to tell you both. No, Lily, I was with Lily this week, who's obviously deep in the middle of her tour, and she said, when you get time off, that's when you're doing well. The people that aren't as successful have to do, like, sometimes like 30 date tours with no date off. So if you're just doing seven major cities with like sort of weekends off here and there, you're fucking killing it. Do you, okay, do you enjoy doing the show?

I love doing it. I love doing it and I love doing it when I feel connected in the way that I did on the night. that you were in. Oh, so for real. So actually, all jokes aside, if there is like, there's a difference in the feeling between somebody listening to all of the moments rather than the more obvious moments, which by the way, just as a side note to, as an example of an obvious moment, which is fucking hilarious, was a continual, like really sarky and demeaning take down of let them theory by Mel Robbins, which, which having read the book myself out of pure intrigue, So I have full context for how dismissive Simon was being.

And also legitimized in that dismissiveness. It was fucking hell. Hang on, we don't believe in let them? No, I do. We do just in, you know, just needs to be expanded into all contexts. I'm just, I was just annoyed because my mum discovered this let them theory. And I can, don't, don't ruin it. Oh, okay.

I won't say the material, but it's just, ruin what? I've seen the show. No, but you're trying to sell the fucking tickets. Listen, if you're listening to this, You're not seeing Simon. If you want to see, let them get dragged through the, in a really hilariously polite, very Simon Amster way, watch it. See, I feel like he should tell it and then people go out anymore of this.

No, because it's an ongoing thing. Listen, if you know, if you know, let's up to you, Simon. I think, no, maybe, maybe Jordan's right. I think, yep, tickets are available through Simonamster.com. To get the rest of that story. No, I'm being dead ass. I'm being dead. It's a, it's a one of the, Simon, correct me from it.

It's one of the biggest callbacks about the show, no? Yeah, it's a good. It's a good bit. It's a good bit. It comes from actual gratitude that my mum discovered it because she's really found peace now. Yeah. Oh my God.

No. Totally. No, but I've known Tina as long as I've known Simon, so like 25 years, 26 years I think it is now, Zay. And she really has. Like she actually is a different woman to the woman I met 20 years ago. So it's beautiful.

This really is funny. And in my head, there's like a version of the show where it just gets more and more absurd into the point of just saying let them, just like actual horror, just like in the middle of like absolute horrors being like, you know what? Let them.

If you do indeed think that Simon is a father of yours, Makita, I'm genuinely intrigued. This has just happened to me, right? I was just on the train on the way here and there was a mum who was, how can I put it politely? verbally abusing her child, maybe? Her child.

Yes, her child. Initially, it was like, oh, this is cute, this child's being loud, and she's telling her child to be quiet, and, you know, oh, we're going to leave you at the station, and then it was like, if you don't shut up, I'll smack you. Oh, no. And I was like, hmm,

and in my head, I have a conflict there because I do have a perhaps like naively optimistic view that every child is, every adult's responsibility. And so I instantly, immediately, in spite of not knowing this child or mother, felt protective, like, you're not about to touch this kid in front of me. Is that right and appropriate? Or do we live in a world where it's none of my business because it's not my child? Please. That is the question, isn't it? That is the question. I'm genuinely intrigued. It's like, I'm sure people are conflicted about this all the time. Like, why do I think that I'm

the gospel on it? I just know that the kid was being cute and the mum was definitely stressed about something, but don't take it out on an actual baby. Simon, so you've done a lot of healing work. Please, Simon. Especially parental healing work. Would you say something? I asked a therapist friend this very question once, because I was feeling triggered by what you've just described.

Right. She said what you could do is go up to that mother and say, you're having a hard day. And then it's all about the compassion for the mother who's having to raise a child, which is a really difficult thing to do. And then you're not in, you're not in, you're not, trying to sort of swoop in. And be like a Puritan.

Yeah, because you don't know. You don't know. But it's horrible. I mean, I'm triggered by a child crying and not being picked up. Yeah. That, I can't really deal with that. Isn't that part of parenting training now to let them cry it out? That was old school.

Was that more 50s? It's like the conservative approach. It's Jordan Peterson energy. I do think that that would have been good for me. think my mom rescued me too much. Oh, you think it would have been good for you to let you cry yourself, like, to, quiet. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's case by case. I don't think, I think it's case by case. Case by case basis. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a parent, but that's like, for instance,

like me and Phoebe went to the same school. I was like, I don't like it here. My mom was like, oh, let's get you out. And then I ended up going to seven schools. Phoebe said to her, mom, I don't like it. She was like, deal with it. And Phoebe's stronger than me and stayed. And made friends. I guess in that case, I would agree with that. But that's different to a baby crying. It's not. I was a baby crying. I was just 12, essentially. I was still a baby crying and saying, save me. But you communicate, I think, is the issue.

Like, I think the whole idea of letting a baby cry itself into exhaustion. Okay, well, no three of us are parents, but if we ever are, would you not, if your baby cries, you're going to get that baby, you're not going to let them cry out in the cot. I would get the baby, yeah. Yeah, because then you teach the baby, if you need me, I'm here. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

And then the child doesn't have to become famous. Yeah. And the child doesn't have to become everything we've striven for. Very good point. Very good point. I would like, because I feel like you spent so much money on all this healing. I can't imagine how much money you spend on all these teachers throughout the years. It'd be great if you could impart.

Just what you might have think is like one of the most important things you've learned. Just as a sort of backbone for slightly skin to people to you. What was the last thing you said, skin to people? Yeah, people who don't have money to go around the world and be taught beautiful things by lots of incredible teachers. Simon Amstel's here right now to give it to you for free. That's what my nan used always say when I'd be like, can't we do that? She'd go, here it is for free. So here you go, here it is for free.

What's the greatest teachings you've learned? It's big. It's something like saying to yourself on a regular basis, I love you, you're perfect. Fact. Facts. Facts. I love you. You're perfect.

I love you. You're perfect. Feels good. It's real. That's genuinely, that's genuinely like very, very good advice. Jordan, you did say that you were doing it more recently. What were the feelings that you had when doing it? Like, because there is that shape.

Well, that I love you, I love you, mantra. Yeah. Just not the opposite. Feeling doubting yourself, questioning yourself. And you go, no, I love you. I love you, it's a really powerful tool. And also, during one of the more bizarre ceremonies that I've done in my time,

there was one moment where the guy running the ceremony, he, at one point, they were talking about it, and I went, oh, yeah, I must have got that wrong. And he turned around to me with such vigor and certainty, and look me dead and eyes, I went, you've never done a thing wrong. He said that to me, and he's wrong, but the sentiment behind it, I was like, wow, I've never even experienced a moment of thinking that.

I've never even experienced like half a second of thinking. I live in a perpetual, I live in perpetual apprehension that it's about to be unveiled the wrong things I've done. You know, like just because I've misunderstood something, not because I know they're wrong, but because I've misunderstood a situation. Like I did in my test at school, I would like answer wrong because I've misread the question. It's not necessarily because I don't know. But it was really powerful, just that guy, just turned around and say, you've never done

the thing wrong. All right, great. But then we're going to the conversation about what is right, what is wrong. Yeah, I mean, it is subjective ultimately. And I also have loose ideas of what is wrong. But, you know, I think I've done things that haven't been conducive to my own harmony. But for him to relieve me of like the kind of omnipresent morality, it was nice. I think one of the reasons that I said that Simon Amstel is like a father to me is because

there was just so much I'd learned from Simon so early that I know built me up to be the grown-up I became and so for me that is a fatherly guiding light but actually probably the truth is is that we if I can be so bold brought each other up a bit yeah we did something together that was intense for five years and yeah of course

I mean you're I find you very you're in my head. Like sometimes I'll write a character who's a bit like you and you're very easy to write because... That's really cool. Because you're just there. You're just there.

Oh, Simon. I just know the hilarious thing that you would say or think, I think. Right. Well, you better hurry up because Jordan's already torn me apart in his book and called me... What do you mean? Called me Val. Is that my name in your book?

I didn't call you Val. Val. I don't call you vow. It's hilarious that you think you were called Val. That in itself was just hilarious. Yes. Vowal like from from Scooby-Doo. What was it? Um, I don't know actually. Phoebe? Are you called Phoebe? No, it wasn't Phoebe. But I was reading his book and I'm thinking, I've got it here. I've got the book. No, I didn't, sorry, what did I say? You said this there, this friend of yours who always drags you to grouchos and tries to hook you up with her mates. That was like, literally true. That's. That is objectively true.

That sounds like me. No, you didn't know. Sorry, Simon, let me put more context. She read the book and was interviewing me for a festival about the book. And in the middle of the interview, I went, you do realize you're in the book. And then I was like, am I that fucking chick that tracks you to grow up? Yes, you're the one pushing me into toilets in Chiltern. Yes, in the Chilton Firehouse.

That's you. So, I'd love to be immortalised in your work as well, Simon. I wish I'd been as brave as Jordan. when I saw sense that kind of thing happening, I was just like, I've got to get out of it. I can't. You didn't let me shove you in toilets with anyone. No, no, no.

Oh, there was one time. God, there was one time, I think. Who was that guy? What's he called? I think we're, I don't know where we were. But I ended up in, I don't, I didn't, I've never taken cocaine or anything. So this wasn't a drug thing, but I somehow ended up in a, in a, in a. Oh, yes, of course.

But I ended up in a cubicle with the streets. Oh, lucky you. You're fucking welcome. Do you mean Mike Skinner? Mike Skinner from the streets. Wow. And I think I was, I think I remember that you fans him. I think he is the streets, just to be, just to confuse everything.

Sorry. Yeah, he is the street. I think he is the street. That's why I said the streets. Right. No, it's just confusing, isn't it? Because it sounds plural, but it's just actually one man. Yeah.

But in your half of your one Rizzle kick? No, I'm not a single Rizzle kick. Aren't you? much. Oh. Why are you not? So I am a single, sorry, technically, but Rizzle Kix isn't, isn't a plural thing. Well, there's an S on it. Let's not get into it, but look. Is it a Zed? Is it a Zad on the end? No, he wouldn't do that. No, no. I was, no, I only said it because I was Rizzle Kicks for a year. I see, but then, then you got a friend. Yeah. So it is like the streets and then, you know, Leroy joined him. Rizzo Kicks isn't, is it plural?

I think it is, babe. think it is because I'm describing something. Anyway, fuck it. No, nah, that says there are lots of members of the streets. No offense, Nat. Name one. Like, come on. No, you're, she's talking about Leo the Lion and shit. I know, Leo the Lion, sure.

They weren't in the streets. That's not the streets. He was like collaborating. Anyway, so you're in a look. Oh, you're in a Lue. Oh, you were in a light Skinner. Right. He's obviously taking drugs.

We probably can't say that. But like, no, I don't think you was either. So you're just in a cube. We were just peeing. In a toilet, not even in the cubicle. No, it was the cubicle. I think we were talking. I think it was a bit loud at the party and we wanted to talk.

Right. I'm so decompressing. You're decompressing in the toilet of cubicle. I remember that you quite liked him at the time, Akita. I didn't quite like him. He liked me and then Lily slept with him behind my back. Oh my God. Already been told on Missed me on the sabotage episode.

How are you still friends? I know. Wow. you should write an album. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's funny.

Labbrook Grove bitch. No, I'm joking. It was a long time ago and... You were children. We were children. We were children. You've never done anything wrong. Never done a thing wrong, Makita.

And we should say that to Lily too. Yes. Everyone's had a difficult childhood. You know? Let's have a break. I really want everyone. No, but I think it's really. important that everyone takes a little minute out of the day

and why not right now with me and Jordan and Simon to go, yeah, I did have quite a difficult childhood. Get over it. Can with your fucking life, a twat. Do you know what I mean? No, yeah. I just want to talk about vanity, right? Okay, I just fucking, let's just get it out

on the table, okay? Jordan's hair's blonde, I've got my legs out. Like, why have I got my legs out? say because I have good legs. Because I have gorgeous. Because I have gorgeous, great legs. Oh my God, I want to lick them. And it's hot.

Thanks, Simon. And... Keats, when's the last time someone licked your legs? About six months ago. Well, that's... Well, that's good. That's better than never. It's actually kind of mad that they specifically licked your legs.

Is that quite good ratio for having your legs licked like once every six months? That's a phenomenal. I actually, as I asked you, I thought that's actually quite a niche thing to be in part of anyways. It actually lick the leg. Lick as in like tongue to leg. More of an ankle kissy lick. Angle. Yo, that's, that's, that's some, that's extended, that's like, that's extended,

that's like extended sex degree work that. That's like, that's like, those are like, those are like the advanced erogenous zones. You've gone past the basics. No, absolutely. You're like earlobe, nipple, lip. Oh, ankle, motherfucker. How's that feel? Back of the knee, let's go.

While we're on the subject, yeah. Do you two have an erogenous zone that has surprised you? Yeah, the deep recesses of my imagination. Okay. Yeah, I bet. I bet. Sam Lamestal? I'm not, I don't think one that surprised me, just the sort of, I suppose, the, well, there's a bit in this show that I'm doing where I talk about the... Oh yeah, that show. I mean, let's not be coy. I feel like you're very open about your sex life.

Because it's very free, yeah, it's really freeing, because, you know, when you know, when you're like a kid and you're all gay and it's scary. And you live in England in 1990, whatever. It's scary. Although I guess not as scary as previous decades, not as scary as other countries. But scary, my feeling is a valid. Yeah.

I, you know, every time there's an opportunity to say the shameful thing in my head or say the thing that I'm scared will make people like me less. I say it. And I'm free. I love that. That's right. Secrets kill. Yeah.

But the truth shall set you free. Exactly. Fucking how. I think wrist. Wrist. Wrist? Wrist kisses. Mm-mm.

It's kind of good. Totally. Mm. Interesting times. We should do erogenous zones for listen bitch. For lish and bitch. I think we could expand it out into something like, oh, by now, I don't know. Anyway, you're not doing listen bitch, Simon.

Vanity. Yeah, let's talk about vanity. So I've got my gorgeous beautiful long legs out because I, I, because I like my legs. And they are a really good part of my body. I suppose I'm quite vain in terms of like I like to be in shape these days. I like to come correct when I'm at work. But Simon, of course, you were there for time when I was less at the top of my list. What about this?

I'm just thinking about the word vanity and the negative, the judgment of the word. What if we were all God looking through these eyes? And what God really loves is the. this physical adoration of ourselves. This is half of your show. Let's talk to the other half of the show. What do you mean?

Well, that's the, that's what I, and I'm not even just doing this to try and plug the show. But like that is what is so fun about the show is you're toggling between, you know, the healthy spiritual versions of ourselves, which is true,

and you know, which we like to have to sit for a moment and breathe and go, oh, hold on, what the fuck am I doing? And then the shallow, egocentric selves often, often brought to the surface by random dinner invitations or occasional plus ones where you're then you're in the power game. So I feel like, yes, that part of vanity would be lovely. Wouldn't we stop? Why don't we take down all our mirrors and see ourselves

and other people? That's the vibe. Well, Nat's just showed me that vanity, Latin, vanity is a Latin word and it translates to empty or void. Wow. But here in my research, it says that prior to the 14th century, it didn't have narcissistic undertones and merely meant futility, futility, which is a wonderful word. Futility. What, as in? Like it's futile to be vain?

Oh, I thought it meant more like... Fertility? Fertility. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Futility is kind of deep, right? So it's like if you're vain, like you're just bound to emptiness. Well, it says vanity is the excessive belief in one's own abilities or attractiveness compared to others. And as we all know, comparison is the thief of joy.

Okay, so Simon, like ego, ego answer, please. What does vanity mean to you? Let me tell you something that happened recently since that show was written. I broke my arm. Oh, God, of course we should mention this. How did you do that? I fell down the stairs. We have wooden floor stairs.

I was wearing socks. I slipped. Shut up. Were you on your own? Well, my boyfriend was in the garden. Husband. Boyfriend, it was a civil partnership. I don't like the word husband.

Oh, you don't like the whole reason I'm going to get married? Okay, got it. Sorry, good friend. That's not a good reason. I know. Boyfriend, yes. Just find somebody who'll lick your ankle every now. Do you know what I'm saying?

That's the dream. Marry me. That's great. My arm banged on the banister. I, and I heard that sort of crack. The kind of crack that you hear are the osteopaths when he does your neck. Shut up.

But louder. Crazy. Because that noise is familiar to me and I'm a positive person, I thought, maybe that's what my arm needed. Oh, no, I'm in insane amounts of pain. Yeah, maybe this was just a sort of like unexpected, brilliant trip to the osteopath at home. So then I'm like lying on a sofa and like calling out for my boyfriend and And to get to the point of the story, the day before our friend Toby, whose musly, had come over for dinner.

And I said to... Whoa, whoa, whoa, the actor I fancy. The actor you fancy. Wait, which one? Keble? No. No, the guy from Rome. He's called Toby Regbo and he's really beautiful...

Oh, wait, Regbo's not musley. He is musley. Oh, is he now? Yeah, I fancy him too, yeah. I mean, I fancy him. Toby Regbo. We've known him for years. He's so cute.

What a face. So I said to Toby, with some caution, because I know this is a dangerous thing to do, I say to Toby looking at his pecks, how do I get more of these? And he gives me some exercises. And then the next morning, I very cautiously do those exercises because I know, because I went to Peru, I drank ayahuasca. And I had a vision of a pulsating blue light across my chest. And the words that came up were, every press up that you do is you saying you are not good enough.

And when you do those press ups, push-ups, it hurts us. Wow. It hurts us. But you know what? That's about intention. Like, are you? Yes. Do you know what I mean?

So that morning, I was very careful. I said to myself, this is not about. not loving my body. I love my body, but they were just accentuating. We're just accentuating. And I did all those exercises and I thought, this is okay. Then I fell down the stairs. Broke my arm.

The universe was like not today. Yeah. Saw my arm when I got home. It was like this withered mess. And I thought, oh my God, I was perfect. I was perfect. What was I thinking? I was perfect.

So it comes for you the vanity. It comes for you the ego. And you have to be so careful because it can sneak in. And break your arm. And then you break your arm. It's not that I broke my arm because I was doing that. But through the breaking of my arm,

I saw that I was already, oh my God, beautiful. Had two working hands. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Break your arm and then you realize what a luxury is to have two working arms. Yeah.

It's as simple as that. Jordan and I were to, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. I hear it. That really does explain a lot. But Jordan, what about you?

Because I said to Jordan, listen, you were born beautiful, so you can shut up and he said, no, I wasn't. I wasn't. What do you mean? I wasn't. I definitely, so in your mind, just to clarify, so you think like in secondary school or whatever, I was just like... I think genetically you've had a great face since you were born. since you were born. I didn't have, I didn't, I had like one year of being, uh, like attractive to girls when I was in like, uh, well, I was just really young, but they were in year

eight. I was in year seven. Yeah, the fingering time. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, but like my, my puberty kicked in when I was in like year nine and then they were all like, now, we liked you last year. It was, it was, I, I know that I definitely, I definitely didn't feel secure in myself because that, you know, later manifested as like a insatiable search for Excel and validation and some very slaggy times. Yeah, not much later at all either. No, literally like five or six years, four, five. Yeah. But so yeah, I've got I've got ongoing issues still, even though I feel like right now I look

maybe like I'm in my best years now, I think, like in terms of not only like how I look, but how I feel about myself. I think ultimately vanity from my perspective is like I want to look like what I would appreciate. If I make sense, I'm aware of the fact that it's like my own appreciation of just like the world at large. Like if somebody has like gone to the gym to not to like an unhealthy amount, but like into an amount where like I can tell that they care about their body. Like I find that attractive. So I have that in my self, you know. Or like if somebody has loads of tattoos.

I like that. So I have a lot of tattoo. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's, I know it sounds almost basic, but I'm just saying it's like it's like it's not as simple as like what do I look like it's like it's like what do I appreciate it. It's just taste. It's like I'm a representation of my taste. I don't know why it feels like I'm just explaining a very basic level of what vanity is. But in my head it's like fucking profound. I think I think I'm trying to move away from the idea that like I obsess over only my appearance and how I look. I think like I'm aligning myself with my general taste in the world is what I'm trying to say. But isn't it as simple as like when your soul,

when you look after your soul and your spirit better, you just like what you see in the mirror. Yeah, 100%. Like there's, there's, yo, it's sometimes it can be as basic as like, you know, if you're like underslept, you feel less attractive. Like it's just very, but there's very, you know, it's just like, are you creating enough happy chemicals in your body to,

to be okay with imperfection? One thing I will say is I've always been a little bit scruffy, which has helped, you know, because I guess that's like accepting. And also I think I am quite accepting of other people's quirk. So, yeah. But yeah, I think self-esteem is something I'm always working on. Can I just talk and go back to the slaggy years a minute.

Simon, we didn't do that. What do you mean? We didn't have our early slaggy years. Simon is still a slag. What are you talking about? No, yeah, Simon's living for fucking making up for lost time now. But when we were like hosting Pop World, we really should have slept with more like pop stars and stuff.

We just didn't do things like that. What? Because I feel like if there was ever a time to do it, that was the time. And everyone always goes, you know, when I was a pop star, I was being slaggy. Like, Lily was. Yeah, but Keith, can I just, before you go into this. There's my slaggy time. But can I just be clear that, like, it's really important that there's two versions of this.

Between two takes. No, just to be clear about where you've jumped from from in this conversation. One side is, wow, I have access to beautiful people and we can have, like, conscious and entertaining times, which don't get me wrong I had. But the excess slag, perhaps is what I'll say, is I am incapable of building an idea of myself that isn't via someone else's eyes, which isn't healthy.

So what you're saying is me in some of far too secure in who we were to slag about, got it. I think for me the problem was that a lot of these pop stars were or were pretending to be heterosexual. Yeah, that was a real barrenu. A lot of them were in the closet, actually. Yes, I mean, half of blue, yeah. Can I say, can I say?

Wow. I'll say it so you don't sound. Half. Half, just one, I think. No, a quarter. So, sorry, a quarter of blue. Sorry, a quarter of blue. The other thing that in terms of the vanity, I guess there's like the look.

And then there is, which is what you comment on the show, Simon is, in these worlds, right, socialite worlds, whereas it's literally just a power game. Like you might get the odd actual connection, which is wonderful and very welcome to when it happens. But ultimately, we have all engaged in a game where it's like, how relevant are you, how much power do you have it in that moment?

Who are you connected to? Where do you go? Like that is, I found that very fascinating to be part of and observe and observe in myself. So the reason I say this is because last week I did GQ Heroes. I was speaking at GQ Heroes. GQ Heroes being one of the more prominent events of the calendar year, like for magazine, cool, fucking fashion shit. Like, Man of the Year they've got.

And I've never, I've never been invited. That's actually probably the first major GQ event I've been invited to. I was at Man of the Year as a plus one of jade. Many times, twice or something? No, no, just once, just the ones. But like that was, that was cool to be part of. Like I, but it's, I find it interesting because there was a time where I'd really care about being invited to Q Heroes or Man of the Year or these things. And I remember feeling like, how's this person there but da-da-da-da, all this stuff, maybe four or five years ago. And I really can truly say, and maybe this is good for me to say out loud, like that I love you, Mentra. I really can say that I actually am in a place

ironically where I don't place a lot of my validation in whether or not I'm in these groups. And if I do, it's very fleeting. I feel like way more of a relationship with like my craft and what I want to put into the world than I do with like rubbing shoulders of celebrities. But it's funny going into those environments now with that perspective because I still feel, I still feel the sense of like, well, I must be important. You know, it must be important if I'm here.

There's a part of one that will always be stroked by it. Yeah, people are, you know, these people, this person's been in a big film, they saw my talk. That's a, that's a lot, in it. I'm going to read my book. Like that makes it special. But it's fine, but I think I have a kind of observe too.

Like that's the thing. I feel it and I experience it and it's definitely a part of me. It will always be as long as I'm in the public eye but I also look at it outside and I think like it's kind of funny. It's a little bit funny. Yeah, because Simon, when you have those birthday parties

I'm like, my God, I can't believe Simon knows all these people. I don't mean like amount of people. I mean, yeah, I feel like you do roll with quite a fast crowd. Yeah, how do you feel like, like, side, because you explain this well in the show but like where are you at?

Like tomorrow you're getting an invite, right? and it says like, oh, fucking, I don't know. Well, what would excite you? I think that really excited me when I was in, was it the last time? When I was in L.A. a few years ago, I was invited by Jesse Armstrong, who created Succession to a pre-M.E. Succession party. Okay, now we're talking. And that was just like being in Disneyland because it's my favourite show.

All the writers are there, all the cast are there. I'm talking to Culkin and his lovely wife jazz and we're just having a great time. And I'm like, I noticed how funny I got in that room. Really? Like, I hadn't been that funny for a while with my real friends. Oh, shit, that's funny. Yeah, man. Yeah, I like, I like a room that's, I mean,

I like where it feels a little bit industry, a little bit like the writers and the directors and the producers of things. But if I feel like there is a cue for a stop and repeat, just fucking kill me. I remember getting invited to one party two years ago. And this is how fickle it can be. And I was walking in and I got thrown out of the way because Kylie Minogue arrived at the same time, right? And I was in this queue. And like I had this PR and like talent agent, which I don't have any more, by the way, which is kind of, I don't know what that means.

But they were like, oh, don't worry, Jordan. We're going to get you in. I'm like, I really don't, I really am not worried. This is not like a thing that I'm concerned about. No, no, no, but like, it's as ridiculous. You don't have to queue. And I was there like, this is actually worse that you're, like, I'll just go home.

Like, I really get it. Kylie, like, I'm talking, that's like five decades of stardom. Like, I'm really not trying to compete with Kylie here. I'm good to go home. I had my moment. And then the next year, I was not only invited, but invited with a plus one. And I was, there all these pictures of me and whatever. And I don't know what the fuck even happened in that year.

But it just, it really just exposed. poses like all the other factors, timing, who was doing the booking? Like, what do they look on at Instagram that day? Like, they're just, it's just whatever. It's interesting what you can make it mean, because it really is like so many fucking other factors. And you always get humbled. Yeah, but you always get, there's always a point where someone turns around

and it's just like, it looks at you, like, you know. And then you're like, oh yeah, that's the world. Right, I remember that. Well, I would like to host the Bafters and then win quite a few. Okay. And that's just who I am. Because we're talking essentially about ambition. and that is my ambition

and those things are quite important to me. They're not just flipping. I'm not like to win a BAFTA. Like, it's important to me that I get recognised by BAFTA at one point in my career for something that I do. Stop right there.

Why? This is a world of pain. It's not. It is. Stop right there. Stop right there. Thank you very much. You are not responsible

for the awards that you win. You are responsible for your craft and joy and love. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I told you. This is why he's one of my favourite dads. We're not waiting for a BAFTA to be happy. Death is coming. I'm not... Death is coming!

Death, heat. It's so true. The only thing we should be worrying about is death. Not a BAFTA coming. You got it. You're so right. You're so right. Enjoy your life. You're alive right. right now you've got working limbs. Yeah, that's so true. Enjoy them. Get, go out tonight, find someone to lick that ankle.

Get your ankle, Nick. And forget, at that point, the point that you're having, an orgasm this evening, you're not gonna be worried about how many BAFTAs you've got. She will. That'll be what brings her to orgasm. That's the role play. And the award goes to, fucking to fucking tell me, fucking say it. Combination of the two.

of the two and I'll be. My little death will be complete, correct. And then you go into this like other state of Makita Oliver. Yeah, totally transcendental. Well, thank you. Bloody hell. Thank God you're staying

to contribute to the Miss Me Library. Thank God. Yeah, I just think awards are good to leverage getting more money for more creativity. That's really it. Listen, I just, yeah, as simple as... Hey, I want a BAFTA.

Give me a billion pounds to make the best thing. My dream is to not have to fight to make the work I want. I'm not sure whether that can, That's fair. Simon, rational, that's a rational thing. Yeah, that is a rational thing. But I wonder if... It's realistic.

Can we just do what we want to do all the time? You can't unfunded, unfortunately, sometimes. What do you need funding for? Simon has sought you out. I love that. Well, you want a documentary? It's done. I'm going on tour for fuck sake. Yeah, I mean, there was like, there's three ideas I'm pitching at the moment.

One's in development. And one, I just can't get in development. And I'm like, I wish I just fucking could just make this because I know how beautiful it will be for the world. But that's not the journey of making something. You have to get it funded and commission you. I hear you. I'm making a film at the moment and the funding is going to be a big part of that.

Yeah. Am I in it? What could you be in it? Yeah, you could be in it. Actually, you really could. My career. I don't do much acting anymore. Yeah, but you're actually very good.

Thanks. I'm making a film at the moment. The guessing of the funding is going to be a vital part of that. But what I can do is enjoy every holy moment of the process. We just cast the lead actor. I've been hanging out with him. We've been going through the script. Oh, that's kind of fun.

That's the award. Yeah, no, you're right. Process. It's a journey, not a destination. It's every line that you're right. Yeah. Tell them, Simon. Tell them.

It's every time you laugh when the actor does the joke that you wrote. Yeah, yeah. Right. It's the craft. I know. I've read the Barber Streisand book as well. Get back to the work. I know.

Get back to the fucking work. Why do you think I've been sitting in this fucking chair for nearly three years? Like, I get it. Talking about the work, like just to, for those of you got guys who haven't clocked it yet, we've got a Miss Me library where we add, what did it? Like a bit of fucking some kind of media culture. I said it to Simon yesterday to sound a bit more beautiful. I'll just say it quickly again, John, before you do it,

you do it, before you shit all over. from Miss me Library. It's a, it's a house of beautiful pieces of art, wonderful documentaries, fantastic films, television shows, so that we are all reminded how these things make up the beauty in our lives. I said it better yesterday. That was quite good. I'm blonde.

And John's blonde and he needs another place to show it off. So we will see everyone in the Miss Me Library. Simon, have you actually got something for the library? Yeah. Oh, fuck yeah. All right, well, let's do that. Simon Amstall, Jordan, you are two men I love so much.

Simon, I don't feel like we shared psychedelic stories enough, but maybe in a part two. Yeah, we could, oh, off, off camera. Oh, yeah, or just in normal life, actually. Yeah, we could just have a conversation. I'll take around to Simon's on day. He's got a lovely garden. Come to my lovely garden, Jordan.

I'd love to. Comforty. By the way, I don't know if this will help yourself esteem, but I think you're beautiful. Thank you. Simon, I think you're beautiful. I think you're both beautiful, and I really appreciate that.

that. Let's work on the inside beauty, eh? Absolutely. Thank you very much. This was Miss Me with three people who have done nothing wrong. That is amazing. That is truly amazing. And neither of you, listener. We done nothing wrong.

Exactly. And you too, listener. Thank you very much. Goodbye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me. This is a Persephoneka show.