MMA Fighting - #459 – Alistair Overeem, Israel Adesanya, Rafael Lovato Jr.

Episode Date: November 26, 2018

Luke Thomas speaks with Alistair Overeem about his big win at UFC Beijing, wanting to fight Derrick Lewis next, more (1:30:25); Israel Adesanya about his fight with Anderson Silva, possibly fighting for the middleweight belt next, more (33:36); Rafael Lovato Jr. about his Bellator middleweight title shot against Gegard Mousasi, his jiu-jitsu career, more (1:01:00). Luke also looks and breaks down some of the action from the weekend including Liddell vs. Ortiz 3, Louis Smolka’s armbar, more on the Monday Morning Analyst (13:03); he also shares his thoughts on Chuck Liddell's KO loss to Tito Ortiz and retirement talk surrounding Liddell on The Weigh-in (6:05). We also answer your questions on the latest in MMA on A Round of Tweets (54:06) and Sound Off (1:48:23). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome, everyone. My name is Luke Thomas. This is the MMA hour right here on MMAFiting.com. Thank you so much for joining me. Hey, what a big show we have planned for you guys today. It's why we're starting 30 minutes early, so I appreciate you guys accommodating us. We've got a lot to get to. Israel Adasanya is going to be here. Frank Mier is going to be here.

Rafael Levato, Junio. is going to be here. Alastair Overeem is going to be here. So that should be fun. You're going to be my guest in the soundoff. Plus, I'm going to do a little Monday morning analyst from some of the fights over the weekend. We've got a bit of a way-in topic to get to your tweets

and your calls so, so much here on this Monday. Number to call, as always, 844-66-24-68. You could also leave us a voicemail, TheMMA hour at voxmedia.com. And use that hashtag, The MMA hour. anytime, all the time. We love the tweets. We love the calls.

We love the tweets. The best tweets. They're my terrible Trump impression. But keep sending them. We always appreciate it when you do. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving. I had an okay one because I worked a lot. But I didn't get to see some family.

Got drunk twice. And had some great food. And I didn't have to travel that much either. So if you did and you got to see some family, well, there you go. I'm not sure what to say about that. Here's what I can say. We've got to get this show moving.

Let's go to my main man, Danny Seguer. He, of course, is the Aliquipa to my pan. He is the a hi-hiko to my Bogota. He is the area. I'm ready to go. Let's do this. You got that high energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How was your Thanksgiving? It was amazing. It was really good. How was? Spent some time with the family, got away from the cold. Apparently when I left, they dropped to the 20. So I was in Miami. It was super cold on Thanksgiving.

Yeah. How is Miami these days? It's awesome. It's great. Sunny. not dark in gray like New York City at this point in time. So it was definitely a nice change in scenery. All right.

The fights over the weekend. What do you want to say? You know what? Everyone is bathing in the sadness of Tito versus Chuck. There were some bright spots. I have to say, you don't really touch me over the weekend. And I'm being serious about this for just a moment. Lewis Smokka's return to the UFC, I was so happy to see that.

I had him on my radio show before. He's talked about his alcoholism and then training with Tino Yama and moving away from all those things. Not to Timo Yama away from the bad stuff. He looked awesome. He did. And up a weight class, no less. And I was really happy to see that.

We're going to talk about his arm bar on the Monday morning analyst. Yeah. What about you? Yeah, I really, I always thought, I never really understood. I guess with the alcohol problems that he's talked about now, everything makes sense. But like, before that, when he went on that O and four streak, like, I just couldn't understand it. Because you see it, you see his fights and you don't see a guy that's not skilled. You see a very skilled fighter.

losing and it just didn't make sense why isn't this guy, you know, why is this guy getting cut? He should be in the UFC. So it's nice to see him back and pulling off a great arm bar like he did. Yeah, now let's talk about Saturday real quickly. It kind of sucked. I did not, I did not

enjoy that, to be honest with you. I did not at all. It was bad. It was really bad. It was and I'm all for the legend fights. I'm all for the legend fights. But there is a line to be drawn. I think, for example, you see like a fight like Bitor Bell for Liotto Machita.

You can tell both guys are past their primes, but it still looks like a, like a, you know, pretty high-level fight. Like, it looks like a regular UFC fight, right? The Tito Chuck did not look anywhere close to that. And that's where I draw the line. Yeah, well, I'm going to cover that in the Monday morning analyst because I went back and I watched it. I was like, what was it that really bothered me about this fight?

And I figured out, dude, here's what I want to say. Everyone is going to talk about how bad Chuck looked. So let me take one moment before we get to the way in very quickly. think about this for a second. I'm going to tell you what mine is, then I'm going to go to you. I want you to tell me your favorite Chuck Liddell fight, and I'm going to go a bit of a deeper cut on this one.

What is my favorite Chuck Lidale fight? I'm going to say the Kevin Randleman fight. Like, when was Chuck? Chuck. He wasn't even the champion at that point, but he was fast, athletic, hard hitting, good chin. He had every, I mean, he was so good in the Kevin Randleman fight. And Kevin Randleman is nobody's pushover ever.

and just the way that Chuck was able to win, you know, randomly contested the stoppage. But I just thought that if you, you know, let's take a moment to say thank you to Chuck for all the good fights he's given us. And my personal favorite has got to be the Kevin Randoming Contest. What about you?

I like the Babaloo one with the head kick. You can't go wrong with that. Yeah, that one was an amazing performance. Also, one that is a little bit towards, you know, later part of his career, but it was a nice win, the Vanderlea Sova. Yeah. You know, that fight for people who don't remember,

that was in a way like our Mayweather Paciow, a fight that never happened that was never going to go down and it finally happened towards the later part of their career it went down and he was in a bit of a funk and he comes back, gets away and I believe he got knocked down by Vandrlei in the first or second maybe and you know he looked good doing it so it was like Chuck is back

I remember Goldie saying that so that was a nice fight. Well we're going to talk to Frank Mirre he called the fights I did think Frank did a pretty good job I thought Rashad did a pretty good job as well and I know some people don't like Todd Grisham I like Todd Grisham a lot. Maybe his UFC run didn't turn out the way some hoped,

but I was glad to see him calling combat sports in addition to glory, of course. All right, good calls and tweets. What do we got? Let's be some Thanksgiving ones, right? I'm telling you. Not really Thanksgiving ones, but yeah, we got plenty of calls. We got our female callers back.

Man, you call them out. You're like, only one lady listens to our show. Right. They took offense. They took offense to that, but you know what? There's tons out there. Sometimes you got to hit the hornet nest to see the insects, I guess. That's not really a saying.

I just made that up. All right. I'll come back to you a little bit later. the show, my friend. All right. Thank you so much. Time now, ladies and gentlemen, for the way in. All right. Time for the way in here on the Monday morning. A lot of times I get up here and I just sort of shout with the righteous indignation. I do not wish to do that today, partly because I don't feel like it in a part because I know you don't want to hear it. But we got to talk about that chuck fight, right? What do you want to say about that? There were a lot of things you could say

about that. There's any number of different angles you could pick. Here's the one I want to pick out because I just think it's the most important one to talk about at the opening of the show, which is about retirement. Now, on the Monday morning analyst, I'm going to talk about the fight itself and what lessons we can infer from that. But we always run up into this argument, right? You can never tell a person to retire. Never is the operative word there. You can never tell another person to retire.

And I really have never agreed with that for a lot of reasons. but I think the way I wanted to open this part of the show and in this conversation more generally is, I think that at the heart of it, that's probably the correct sentiment. It's just too restrictive. In other words, how many times in MMA, particularly like the heavier weight glasses, how many times in MMA have you thought that somebody was absolutely no doubt about it done? And they came back and showed you, yeah, maybe not, maybe not. Maybe they got something left here, right?

that's one truth you have to consider. Think about this weekend. Alastor Overein was like, I'm back. I think he was dealing with some thoughts about me, know, how much time at the top do I have left? How much time in the sport do I have left? And I think he found that win over the weekend very rejuvenating. Even Francis Ngano, right?

Some folks were like, we're going to see what he's got left. I mean, it's not really clear how much is really there. And he showed you that it was not anywhere close to being done, probably. I've made that mistake with other fighters before that I thought was like, yeah, they're for sure done. And then they really weren't. The truth of it is, you do have to be extremely careful.

And you do have to have some humility about knowing when someone's at the end. And it is kind of hard to tell, to be perfectly honest with you. All evidence for many, many years will indicate that something is true, and then it can just turn. You have to just be very careful. But I also feel like at the same time, while having a degree of humility about it, is probably the right eye. idea. I think it's also the right idea to just take away that word never. You can never tell another man or woman when to retire. Really never? They can be 70 in their fighting and that's okay. I mean, I suppose that there'll be some exception in the future, right, where someone

can be 70 in fight, but the point still stands. That to me is just way too restrictive. It is true that you can tell someone to retire. It is not merely true. It is frankly a moral requirement at some point. Right. I mean, here was the big issue for me in that Chuck fight. It wasn't that he got knocked out, although that's not great. But people get knocked out and fights all the time.

So that by itself is not a big deal. And he wasn't fighting some, you know, marauding crusader, which I guess in some ways makes it worse. But at the same time, you know, he wasn't like he was, It was like the risk of abuse was super high. So that, okay, that's fine. But here was the issue for me. It was that after 10 years,

all of the things that made you want to say, this is why he should be done, none of them were rolled back at all. Like they were all still in play, his ability to take damage, chief among them. It seems to be as compromised as it ever was. I'm sure Tito hits hard, but relative to his peers in his era,

he was not known as a particularly hard puncher. He was known as like a volume ground and pounder. and he was just putting Chuck on roller skates several times in this contest, including at the very end, doing it under a round. Like there was no pullback from that. There have been times where folks have questioned other people's chins, and then you're like, oh, okay, well, actually, maybe it's a little bit better, but there was no, there was no improvement here.

I think physically he didn't look good at all in the way in which he moved, and for the reasons he was trying to set up offense. I'll talk more about that a little bit later. But my point only is the following. It's like if you can't at least think to yourself, this is not a good idea for somebody in that circumstance. Well, then I guess, yeah, never is the appropriate word. I guess if even a case like that where someone is clearly not capable of fighting even someone of their own generation who also is right at retirement, then you can't really say it at all. But that clearly seems imbecilic and a very bad idea.

Like if we're going to preserve this thing, this thing, this combat sports, this MMA, we have to have a degree of, as I mentioned before, humility about it. We have to have a degree of sober perspective about it. But we also have to have a degree of humanity, not merely in granting opportunity, but in pulling it away as well. It's a two-way street. For as many times as you want to give someone an opportunity, you have to deny it probably at the other end as well. in order to preserve health, safety, standards, appearance, and everything in between. It actually can't work if you just let it be whatever. It's why we have rules.

It's why it's regulated. It's why there's a selection in terms of who can be in the cage and who can't. Who can fight the highest level? Who can't? There's all kinds of rules and mechanisms and everything else in place. You actually have to have that for this thing to function. It's not really that you saw a legend go down. It doesn't make you feel good.

That's part of it. The other part is, like, I don't think that this thing deserves to exist if we let more of this happen. You have to at some point say, yeah, no, you kind of can't tell someone to retire. They don't have to necessarily listen. In fact, I have no power over them. You heard me on my laptop before. I've made this argument. I can't twist their arm.

I can't make them. But at some point, man, if you're watching something like that and you don't say anything, I don't know. I don't think that's an opportunity to be sitting on the sidelines. I think it's an opportunity to say because we care and because we have respect

and because we need this operation to function at a level that frankly is palatable to society, palatable to our ethics, palatable to our sense of humanity, sometimes you just got to say no. And it doesn't feel good and I don't think it should.

But this idea that we should never intervene, that we should never say anything, I think that's a recipe for disaster, and it's not really fair to the fighters who are programmed and have been programmed all their lives to think a certain way. You're actually doing them a disservice.

All right, that's my way in. Okay, so I talked about the fight. Let's take a look at some of the footage. Time now for the Monday morning analyst. How you doing? Happy Thanksgiving. Here I am. Let's put the screen up here if we can. So this is, look here closely, This is UFC 66. This was their second meeting. Now, if you're listening on the audio podcast, don't fast forward just yet.

Here's what a point I want to make in this. I'm going to show you some of the footage from the fight over the weekend, but this is the beginning of the end right here at UFC 66. This was their rematch. First one was the UFC 44 or 47. I can't remember this was the second one of the two. And what you notice is a few things. Here's what I got.

You can look at the final shot that Tito landed on Saturday, and you can say, well, yeah, it was a clean shot that would have put anybody down. But that's not really true. When you look at Chuck in his prime, And this is probably the peak. This is probably the very end of Chuck's peak. This fight right here, because after this, he goes in that big, long losing streak. He was still champion in this contest.

He lost a rampage after this. I think UFC 71. My point is as follows. Number one, I've made this point in previous times. Who is behind? Right? Who's in the danger zone? It's Tito, right?

Tito's in the danger zone. So you have Chuck leading. Chuck is in the center-ish, but pushing out. You can say, well, Luke, Chuck's a counterfighter, and he is. But he's a counterfighter in more clever ways. What you're going to notice is that Chuck's a counterfighter in the sense of he's good at keeping the right kind of distance, but he doesn't really back up all that often.

He might back up a little bit inside of this space here, all of this, but he doesn't really back up to the pole where his backs along the fence like Tito's doing here. Tito is getting cornered. Chuck really never ever got cornered in his career up to this point for the most part. Maybe in the first rampage fight or something like that. But the point being is I want to just sort of set the context here. Number one, he's leading. Even though he's counter striking, he's leading a little bit here in terms of forcing the action.

Connor McGregor's very good at this, right? He'll back you up, back you up, force the strike out of you, and then bang, boom, you're looking up at the lights. He's kind of very, very skilled in that regard. So, number one, context. Look at where they are, position on the cage. look at the sort of body language here. Chuck hands down by his waist.

You know, he's not, Chuck doesn't have his hands here. He kind of really never did it at the end of his career, but he really has his hands low. And just look at this footage here for a second. Look at him stepping into him. And remember when I mentioned him when your back gets up against the fence, your behavior changes? Look at Tito almost leaning on his back foot like this.

I think he would never really do. He's just trying to find a way to stay out of Chuck's range. And look at Chuck here. One thing I want you to notice when we go through the next set of footage, pay attention to how little Chuck. throws. Like there's just very little proactive offense on Saturday. In this fight, he had tons of proactive offense. One, he was moving really well. His gauge of distance was excellent, right? So he's establishing the right context. His body language is good. His balance is good. He's proactive

with his offense. And he was firing his uppercut over and over again. Look how much distance he covers with this thing, first of all. Incredible, right? Gets Tito to kind of cover up and then he uses it to come overhand like this. He was known for these overhand rights and overhand lefts where he could just strike from super far. Now keep paying attention here. Tito drills him. Look at this. Bink, that would have put him out or sat him down on Saturday. Watch what it does to Chuck here. Makes him slip off, throws a right hook, and then comes back around with the left. Then look at him, diving. Boom, look at that. Diving in. You know, Chuck in his heyday, proactive, good distance, setting the right context, and more important, that very accurate headhunter.

He was a headhunter, but he was really powerful and really accurate at it. He could do it backing up. He could do it going forward. And so that's why I made him a bit of a bad matchup for Tito in the early days. Tito, in the words of Roshad Evans, has a big-ass head. So he would just go after it constantly. But even in this fight, he was throwing body shots to Tito as well. Like he was just going all over him, right?

Look at him backing him up. Bang. Look at this. I think he goes through the liver shot here? No. Big uppercut. Bang. And then he gets on top, kind of downblocks him on the way here, and this sort of goes all after him here. So this is my point. It's just a small exchange at the end of the fight. There's nothing, like, is it the most meaningful piece of footage? Not necessarily, but it's so emblematic of why he was so great, right? He'd be here. Uppercut. Proactive offense immediately, throwing a shot behind it. So there's a combo there. We've established the context about the space in the cage. Boom. Eats a shot. Chin. Completely intact. Fires off. Stays in the pocket. Chases after him. Headhunts accurately. Look at him backing him up and just constantly giving him nowhere to go. Firing the uppercut. So he was going around the guard, through the guard. Just a barrage of assault kind of downblocks here and gets out of the way. It's amazing. It's vintage Chuck Lidl, right? And then you go look at Saturday's footage and you're like, yeah, it didn't look like that. I'm not going to show you the finish here because there's no need.

So then you get here. Now you have almost none of those. context in play. Virtually none. Number one, this is Golden Boy's cage, but look who's behind, right? Who's in the danger zone now? Yeah? Number one. Number two, hands are kind of low, and you can see Chuck always like to hang that right out here so he could really whip it over the top, but you're going to see he's not very proactive here at all. Here's what really stood out to me. Again, context is different. Proactive nature is different. No combination punching, no uppercutting, no splitting of the guard, no nothing, no punching around it for the most part. Here's what you're going to see.

When you go back and you look at this old one, look at this for a second. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. The hand speed. Yeah, yes, I'm putting the video fast. But the hand speed was so explosive. In fact, the first time he beat Tito, remember it against the fence. It was like Phil Barone, Dave Monet, pow, pow, pow, just going after him the whole time. He had nowhere to go and he just dropped.

You saw a similar thing here. What you notice in this fight, aside from the change in context, already the context is bad, you're going to notice that, again, not being proactive, when he does throw, Tito sees it coming a mile away. And so he's able to slip punches and then react. He's not doing anything super sophisticated. He doesn't need to. Sticks to the game plan. Dude, slipping a punch is hard.

It's hard to know how to slip a punch. Tito's really worked on his striking a lot. You've got to give the guy credit. but he can see those shots coming so Tito can slip and then get inside and back him up with punches. That's not something he'd ever really done before. He didn't even shoot once in this fight, I don't think. So just watch this one. Look at Tito, just leaning out of the way, missing it completely because he can see it coming a mile away

and then gets off at an angle, right? First one and backs him up here a little bit. Look who's backing up. Drops his level, comes over the top, and Chuck just cannot really react. He kind of leans off a little bit only after he gets. hit, right? Tito keeps pursuing. We go to the next one. Look at Tito. Looking at it, look at him, looking down at Chuck. Right there, he can see him. He's looking down at him. He can see the punch is coming, yeah? Watch. Whoops, slips twice, expecting both times as Chuck comes

forward to get it off. These movements are subtle. They're not huge movements. They're just tight little slips. Good job by Tito Ortiz, right? Boom, stays out of the range. Now here's Chuck again pawing like that. Look away. He's so far. Look at Tito. He just leans as Chuck tries to paw. Tito just leans and then gets ready to step inside.

Kind of waits his moment there. Look at Tito. He can see this coming. Boop slips it. Do this like you've never, I'm not saying Tito can't do this against anyone else, but this is not something that historically, if you look at the body of work of Tito Ortiz that he has been known for. To an extent, it's probably because he didn't get enough credit for stuff he had.

done, but this was like maybe the best display of it to this point. He can just look. He can look at him, looking down the pipeline. He can just kind of see it coming. Is there a tell? Watch Chuck's left hand. He kind of drops it, right? Whoop, you can just see it coming. Slips to the outside, bink. Now Chuck has a bit of a hanger here. There's this tactic where he's using it with his cross, but you can use it with your jab too, so I'm left-handed, right? So if you jab and then you keep a hand up and it keeps them from coming over the top, so bink, and then the hand goes up, he's doing it here on the cross. So this would be my left, he'd be my cross.

Bink, and then he's bringing it up again. You're watching that. So he throws, he slips it, boom, but he keeps the hangar there. But that's the only thing keeping him safe. Tito's just off on that right, just off. And you can see, look, Chuck looks kind of like not balanced here, you know? We go through the tape a little bit more. Again, look who's in the danger zone.

Bad place to be. Real bad place to be. You have no mobility. and your behavior changes. Look at Tito. Level changes, draws the punch. That's a good job by Tito Ortiz, man.

Whoop. And this does it twice, by the way. Lower's level, dodges, slips, comes over the top, jabs his way inside, double jabs, and he's going to probably throw the right here,

I'm going to guess. Let's it go, decides to wait again as he gauges distance. Watch this. Lidel jabs. Tito Ortiz, kind of like slip parries,

comes over the top and just leans out of the way of it, stays here, and look at, like, I didn't even notice what knocked Liddell down. He just sort of lost his balance here, but I don't know. It just seemed like an awkward fall to me. We keep going, right? All right, here we are. I think this is the last sequence here, if I'm not mistaken. So let's see, he slips the punch. No, he misses with this one. But I want to point out here, what do you notice one more time? He just knows it's coming. The jab is nowhere close, and Tito just pulls back and gets right out of the way.

Counter is just out of the way. Chuck just dodges it. It's actually a pretty good job by Chuck there. But he looks a little unbalanced to me, you know? And then we get here. I think this might be the beginning of the end here. Look at that. Slips.

And he eats a nice one there because I guess Chuck got him. If you notice, Tito kept slipping to the outside. Chuck catches him bink right there with a nice shot, but can't really follow it up and gets pushed back. with that right hand. It didn't let it get landed much. Another hangar. Still kind of pushed him back a little bit, strangely. Here he is. Slipping to the outside again, he slips to the outside, tries to come with a left hook, and the right one, he slips on the cage here, didn't get hit

with anything. You're asking, what's the point of all this? Look at how often he can just time Lidl's shots. You're wondering why he never went for a wrestling shot. Why he didn't need to? He could see everything coming. Look at this. Look at him taunting, side to side to side. like that. You ever seen Tito do that? As he's marching somebody down. By the way, good job by Tito cage cutting here for the most part. He lets him back in here. This is more vintage Chuck. Chuck used to like to operate inside of this space. So all of this. He didn't necessarily corner you until he thought he had you hurt, but he kind of wanted to stay in that center rotation spot. So this is a little more vintage at this point, but he's already just getting

backed up here and Tito is just totally confident. Not worried about anything he's going to get hit with in terms of power, it seems, or in terms of the visibility of it. I want to move along here. Jabs his way inside. Here we are. And I think this is close to the beginning in, blocks it, throws a left hook, right? Sees it all coming, right? Not worried about the power at all. He's got him on the back foot here. He's not concerned. All right. And here's the beginning of the end. So, right, he's got him backed up. Now it's backed up against the fence. As we know, behavior changes. What does he do? Slips to the outside. Left hook, or excuse me, I should say, slips to the outside, and then, let's see, he is in a right-handed stance. So it's a jab, cross,

right? Backs him up straight, another jab, boom. So what does he do here? Basic boxing. I don't mean basic as an insult. I mean basic as fundamental. Slip, jab cross, jab cross, and just drops him. and he was able to move inside real quickly. Watch he gets Chuck Liddell backing up in a straight line. Watch this. Slip. Jab. A little more of a sort of a hook jab.

Cross. Boom, right? One more time. Jab. And look at Tito marching his way inside. Just pushing back straight line. Boom. Catches him.

Basic but fundamental boxing is why Tito Ortiz. Tito Ortiz just outboxed him. Plain his day. Through a couple of inside cut kicks or whatever, but he could just see everything coming. And if you watched how they set up everything before, Tito had a lot of trouble with the distance. Chuck's hand speed, combinations, head hunting, his use of footwork. It wasn't there. It wasn't there.

And then, of course, all the same problems that forced him to retire to begin with were also in play. This is what I'm talking about when I say, you know, why does someone need to take a hard look in the mirror about whether or not their athletic career is over, it is not because we want to be insulting, it is not because we want to be demeaning, it is not because we're trying to do this to be hurtful. We're trying to do this to protect the people that we care about and to protect this entity. And if we don't put in some kind of guardrails, the shit is going to go off the cliff, man. Like, if the same reasons that plagued him to the point where he had initial retirement are still in play, and then there's the physical degradation to the point

where people who are well-trained fighters, Tito Ortiz is a well-trained fighter, but not historically known as some kind of very good boxer can just march on into him, either eat a shot or slip him and then counter with just a one-two right down the middle. There's a problem, man. There's a problem.

And it needs to be addressed. Now, let's skip this. I'm not going to show you any more of this. Just skip all this. Skip all this, skip all this. All right, here we go. Lewis Smolka. I want to show this real quick.

I had mentioned he had done really, really good stuff over the weekend. He gets this arm bar over this gentleman's name, who I cannot pronounce. I love this. So he took Mount several times, got takedown several times. So it looks to me here like he's going to go for an Omoplaza. He's trying to... Let me change the color of this thing so you can see it better. He's trying to...

Let's do it that way. He wants to sneak that leg through here, right? That's what he's trying to do. So he manages to do it because it looks like he looks like he was. he's trying to do is set up an omopata, and you see him switch those legs out, right? But then he's like, well, you know what? Maybe I'll just regard. He's reaching across with his hand here to help him spin underneath. You see, where is he spinning? His hips are in the air. His shoulders are on the mat. You see that? He's not spinning on the flat of his back. Spinning on his shoulders. It creates

less friction, a lot more mobility. So he turns. I thought for a second here he was definitely going to go for Omplata like when he was there, but I guess that's just what his opponent gave him. Now watch this set up. He's got the arm here. You see this? This is the arm, right? I love this. This is so good from Louis Smoka. Watch this. So what's going to happen? This gentleman here is going to want to turn into him so you can have two arms in or no arms in, but you can't have one, right? Because you get armbar, triangle, the whole nine. So he's, Smokka is anticipating this gentleman and turning into him and fakes the triangle. He even reaches for the back of the head to go for the triangle,

or at least gives them semi-setup. But you can see he doesn't really reach for it that much, right? What happens? He stays, look at his hips. They're still in the air. They're not on the ground. This gentleman is, look, their hips are attached here, right? He doesn't ever separate him.

Bad move. Because it gives Smoka the angle and the mobility he needs to do something. Watch this. He's anticipating that this arm is going to come down and hammer him because he's controlling this one. See he's got a grip on the hand here. So what's he do? He waits for it, right? He kind of kind of tries to put a bit of a guard on top of it, but a loose one, anticipating that this punch on the right side is going to come. Sort of begins to like sort of set up a triangle, but then kind of fakes it not. Like it looks like a triangle is going to happen, but not sort of. It's kind of loose. So he's anticipating this punch is going to come. Watch how he uses. this shin and his own body rotation to throw the punch to the other side of his body. Watch this. The punch comes in, whoop. You see that? Watch this leg. He's going to kick it over

with the inside of his thigh when the punch comes down like that. And then he slips out of the way. You see that? And also when he does that, do you know what he does with the arm? He gets right into position, bink like that. That is nifty, folks. The punch gets pushed over across his own body, which allows him to set up the angle for the arm bar. Nice. That is very, very, and I'm like, bored at, nice, very nice, right? So then he just rolls through on the arm bar, and he makes a bit of a mistake here, but he recovers. So this gentleman is using something what's called a bit of a 69 guard. It's not really a guard, but just sort of prevents you from getting arm bar temporarily. He frees his head. There's a lot of details here I'm skipping, but he

freeze his head. Okay, now he gets here. Now he's got to break this grip. The guy's got a bicep grip to work. For the bicep grip to work, you have to bicep, and this has to go on the inside of their thigh. He misses it. It's actually not on the inside of his thigh. So what happens? You can actually reach behind their elbow. If my hands are like this, I'm strong here, right? You've seen those dudes who tear the phone books, the power team? They tear it here. They don't tear it across their body like this. They tear it here. This is where you're strong. So if I can get the arm to go this way, now it's a little weak. He actually doesn't grab behind the elbow, but what he does do is realizing that this hand is not underneath his own leg, he can just

tear this one out from behind himself by just scooping underneath like that. You see this? Now watch, he does a bit of a mistake here. It's okay. It's not a bit of it's a small one. He's going to rock back for the arm bar, but he doesn't separate the hand from the body. By the way, it's easier to break up here than it is at the elbow. If you pull on someone's elbow, it's hard. If you break at the wrist, it kind of goes open. But you'll notice when he goes back, he brings his opponent with him. Watch this.

The opponent comes on top. You see that? He rocks back. You see him straining. And then the opponent comes on top because he couldn't get separation. But that's okay because now that his back is on the mat, here's what he can do. He can now extend. Watch this.

just like that. Boop and he peels it out. The hand, this was the one that was bicep gripping. It's no longer all that valuable and he can just pop it just like that. Boom. I don't want to show the finish, but you get the idea. So one more time here very quickly. He just reaches behind, uses his forearm to grab behind the hand because the other hand, you'll see here.

See this? He's just holding it here. This should be underneath this thigh and it's not. It's free. So he knew he could just grab him. He pulls him on top of him a little bit, which the guy gets to his base. But at that point, he can then extend his hips away from his body. And there you go.

Nice arm bar. Good job by Lewis Mokka. Really appreciate that. And by the way, good job by Tito Ortiz as well. He did everything he said he was going to, and he got a good win. Okay. So there's my Monday morning analyst. Congratulations to all the winners over the weekend.

Next, I spoke to Israel Adasanya yesterday. All our other guests today are alive. But yesterday, I spoke to Israel Adasanya. Is he facing Anderson Silva? What does it mean to him? What does it mean to the middleweight division? Here's our conversation. All right, we're joined now by a rising sensation

in the UFC middleweight division. He allegedly will be taking on Anderson Silva at UFC 234. So we wanted to get him on the show today to talk about it. The one and only Israel, Adasanya. Israel, how has your life been since we last spoke? It's been crazy, man. Like I said, we expected all this. So, yeah, just being turning up with everything around me,

all these snakes are around, you know, everyone wants to talk to you. But, yeah, I'm just doing me. I'm keeping that same energy, as always. Have you noticed an uptick in your native New Zealand in terms of your recognizability? Yeah, definitely, I mean, I don't even, like, it's not, and there's not too bad in the way where it's not like Hollywood. I have to walk around with bodyguards and shit. But, you know, I've definitely noticed, I can't.

go out without really being recognized a lot of the time. So I'm getting used to it though. I mean, it's part of the gig. So I just, you know, smile away. All right. Look, let's get into it. Newsbrook over the weekend that you are supposed to be taking on Anderson Silva at UFC 234. First of all, let's just sort of start with the basics here.

Is the report true? Are you fighting Anderson Silva? Allegedly. Now, yeah, definitely. Nothing is signed yet. nothing's put like pen of paper but it's funny man honestly like i keep saying i'm in the fucking matrix because initially when i went to sydney to meet dana this was the exact plan i gave to him i told him let's get this done in melbourne as a co-main event blah blah blah and he had

other ideas he had an idea to get me versus um anderson as the first first card on the ESPN show so So that, you know, he said he's going to go talk to Anderson. He liked my idea as well. So he's going to go talk to Anderson and see if he can get him to do it. And then initially, Anderson said no. And I was kind of like, fuck, oh, well, I mean, it's kind of good that I don't have to, like, kill my hero. But, and then we got a new opponent. It was Jacare.

And Jacaree for the January ESPN show, I think it's January 19th. So, yeah, I was like, all, cool. I'm going to skip my Europe trip. Just go to the wedding, come back. I'll probably skip Christmas and just get everything, you know, get everything done so I can smash this guy. And yeah, that was set. I thought it was ready, you know. And then yesterday I got the call from my trainer saying,

Jacques-Rae needs more time to prepare. And I can understand because he just fought like a hard battle. Mine was easy, you know, I cleaned Brunson easily, but his battle was back and forth. So he would have taken some knock, some injuries. So he said he has to recover first and, you know, get better. But, yeah. and Eugene just said, Anderson came back and said yes. So in my head, I was like, I wonder why.

I wonder what changed his mind who got in his air. Because I was initially disappointed because, you know, there was a time when he was at the height of his career and Joe Rogan was interviewing him after he smashed someone and he's like, you know, who do you want to fight next? Who could you possibly face next? And Anderson goes, eh, my clone, you know? And I'm a guy that started off modeling,

my style after his because he's a skinny black guy like me. And I looked up to him, you know? So I was like, if you want to fight your clone, you can fight me, but I'm better than your clone because I've studied every single thing you've done, every fucking move you make. I know when he's going to chill. I know when he's going to attack. I know when he's offensive. I know when he wants to blitz.

I feel it. I know this man better than he knows himself in a way. So, yeah, and I know some things about him that he doesn't even know about himself because I'm on the outside looking in. I'm glad he took the fight now. I'm glad it's on. And was it, 23, 4. Man, perfect synchronicity.

234. Melbourne, my favorite city in Australia. So, man, I'm ready. This is all mine for the taking. All right. So there's a bunch of questions about this. That's really kind of interesting. Now, I'll rush sure how to ask this.

So I'll just ask it in a very broad way. And you take it whichever way you think it means. Would you rather have faced Jacques, or are you glad you're fighting Anderson instead in a perfect world? In a perfect, initially, Like, initially, I didn't want to fire Anderson. I've said I've been on record saying that. Like, there's no need because he's a legend, you know?

He's done what he's done. Like, why would you want to put him up against a guy like me? But then I had a dream on a Sunday night about two weeks ago. And on Monday, I got to the gym. I trained. And after training, Eugene pulled me aside. My coach pulled me aside and said, look, I know you've been on record saying you don't want this fight, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I don't believe in all this fucking destiny. or like whatever, Matrix shit you keep talking about but I feel like this is how it's supposed to happen like you have to fight this guy like you and I was just like yeah I agree and he's like what? And I was like yeah

I had a dream last night that kind of it was between me and him between me and Eugene that dream and Anderson wasn't mixed as well but it kind of made sense to me that I have to fight him like when my movie comes out

when my movie of my life comes out this is going to be a fucking pivotal moment this is going to be that moment and that it's like you can't who writes this shit I mean seriously who writes this shit I get to fucking beat the guy that actually put me on in the game unknowingly.

So, yeah, it's just like it's the perfect story. It's the perfect storybook ending for him as well. Because after this fight, I mean, he's done what he's done. So he can let me handle it. He's been the greatest middleweight champion of all time. I'll take it from here. I'll take the torch by force if I have to. Where do you think he is as a competitor at this point?

Because I'll be honest. I've said this on my last show. I get the match. I get the history of it. I get how this will launch you into a different space. I mean, when this fight got reported, a sports center here in the United States, put it up.

Like, it's a big deal. But competitively, you know, I'll be candid. I don't, I think you're miles ahead at this point. So, like, what is, in your mind, what's the benefit of this fight? The benefit for me, like, even he's not ranked. That's the thing.

So I'm taking on the guy that's not ranked in the middleweight division. So I could potentially lose, you know, my, I fucking hate rankings at the end of the day. Because, look, he's still Anderson Silver, whether you like it or not. He just smashed, well, Bispin won that fight on paper, but I had Anderson edging it out. I mean, you could have stopped that fight in the third round after that flying knee,

dropped them, you know? So he's still a guy that's dangerous. He's still a guy that, he's the fucking guy that front kick Vitor Belfort in his face. He's still crafty, and he's a guy that amongst everyone else, he can probably, what's the way? word, he can probably play with me better than most people because we're cut from the same cloth, cloth of greatness. Like the way we move is different from the rest. So, yeah, he'll be a guy that understands how we move differently. So don't ever sleep on him. He's a spider, you know, he's the

guy that has done what he's done. So I'm not, even I'm a guy. I know what, I know I'm going to beat him. I know I have to beat him. I know how I'm going to beat him, but I'm not overestimating him and I'm not underestimating him. I just have to go in there and do my job. And I, I said it just because I'm a fan. Doesn't mean you can't catch his hands. Like, just because I'm a fan, doesn't mean I won't, like, put it on him. I'm not going to be like GSP when he first faced Matt Hughes,

you know, if he was looking down. Even he admitted he was scared. He wasn't worthy of being in there. That's how he felt. This is not that. This is not that story. I'm coming in there to kill him. Like, I'm coming in there to destroy him.

And I know how it's going to be afterwards. I feel it already. I've kind of seen how it ends and I've kind of felt the emotions. Like, when I think about the fight and how I feel, finish it. I can feel it. It's so real. It's so real. So I know how I'm going to be afterwards. I'm going to be hurt, destroyed, but I have to do what I have to do. This is the story. This is history. This is the Matrix. Let's go. So let's say you get everything that you are describing here. It would just seem to be natural that you get the winner of that main event,

right? I mean, obviously not that night, of course, but at a future date, you got to be on a collision course with that guy. I'll campaign for it because, you know what I mean? Anderson's still there. He's still, he's the goat, you know, he's a goat for a reason. And I, I'll campaign for, I'll talk to Dana. I'll talk to Mick. And we'll see, I don't know what other middle-weight matchups are being made around that time or who's going to be healthy around that time, but we'll see what's up. I'll make sure I, I'll make sure I put my foot down. I'm very persuasive in my ways, you know, when someone's in front of me and I can talk to them and they can see my passion and feel me. It's better than texting or calling it on screen. They can really, they can

feel what I'm about and I can really get them on my level. Is there a, through all of your time, because you've got obviously a very different background than most MMA or even UFC middleweights, right, with your kickboxing background. Anderson's very much his own guy, but to the extent you have the relevant experience that you do, can you draw upon any of that specifically? Is there one person you may have faced that really provides a good, a good, a good, anybody who can you can look back on, say, you know what, that guy's not in Anderson Silva,

but there are a lot of parts to it that match up. We've already started planning. We've already got like two killers in the gym that are going to be good for me for sparring with him. And I'm going to bring one other guy at Boxer that I know of that he knows how to switch well. He's going to, I can't kick him, but, you know, he can give me them hands and I can give it back.

So, yeah, I've already. Overdive anyone that I fought or anything like that. I can't think of anyone that. as close in the way he moves, the way he thinks. Because, yeah, everyone else is just basic. Anderson is different. He's, yeah, he's different. There's a reason why I looked at him and I was like,

fuck, I can really be the greatest at this. Look at me now. Holy shit. I have to kind of pinch myself sometimes, but it is what it is, you know? By the way, last time we spoke, I told you this is the only thing I think I was right about, which was you were like,

oh, I'm going to have this big, long vacation, and I'm going to go tour Europe. But obviously some of that is still in play. but you can see, man, after that whenever Brunson, your services are in not only high, but pretty frequent demand. Yeah, I told you, I mean, as well, I felt like, I'm like, I'm like, fuck this, I'm just going to chill.

I just spent fucking eight, ten weeks in the gym, you know, putting the foot on the pedal, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then like two weeks out of that, I'm just like, hmm, I want to punch someone, on the kicks on in the face. I get itchy pretty quickly. So after this one, ah, I won't see. Hey, what does this fight mean for the Australia and New Zealand MMA community, right?

It's sort of a cross. It's not just this fight, but that car generally, given that Robert Whitaker's at the top of it, he's a champion, you're knocking on the door. Is there any way for those of us on the other side of the world to understand the significance of this? No, I mean, look, Anderson Silva is the goat, the best of all time. He has never, I don't think apart from Brazil and America, North America, I don't think he's ever ventured out of those areas, if you will. Like, he normally likes to stay close to home.

And, yeah, to bring him all the way out to Australia, I know that UFC would have offered him everything. They would have offered him everything to get out here. So, like he said, no at first, but whatever happened changed. And I don't know, maybe I want to believe he went and thought about it and thought about who he was and what his legacy is. Because he's the guy that wanted, he always wanted to face the best. You know, he's in the twilight of his career now.

So he gets paid a lot of money, so he might not want to face guys like me, you know, people who can kill him, people who can make him look bad, you know, so he might want to just have like an easy write out. But I know he's still the guy that wanted to always challenge himself. And look, I could fuck around and lose his fight. I couldn't make a dumb mistake and lose this fight. This is my fight at the end of the day, you know, I'm going to come in there and do what I do. But to have him, to have Robert Whitaker as a champion doing what he's doing, and then to have me, the. new dog in the yard, pissing everywhere in Melbourne. It's going to be fucking big.

I'm sure this is going to sell out like that. I already got people hitting me off or tickets. I'm like, look, I know nothing. I don't know nothing. It's not even on sale yet, so I'm just, I'm just doing me. Look at this. I'm chilling.

I was just at the creek before. Enjoying myself with my dog, those sexy beast as he is. And I'm just kind of like, all right, this is my time to myself, my time to think, my time to plot. So I've kind of seen how everything's going to play out. And there's going to be some variables along the way, but I'll handle those very well like I always do. And yeah, I'm ready, man. This is fucking crazy.

I'm ready. What kind of attention or interest level do you put in Anderson's various run-ins with anti-doping authorities? Hmm. See, with that, I didn't really like, you know, the whole thing came out with dick pills, right? Like, I was just like, ah, whatever, but then I forgot about this. But my coach told me he had a masking agent, a masking agent. a masking agent. I was like, oh, yeah.

Hmm. So my coach has his own ideas of what happens. And me, I'm kind of like, the whole time, I've kind of been like, la, la, la, la, la, la. I don't care. I don't want to know. He's still Anderson Silver. You know, I don't want his legacy to be tarnished

because of something like that. But my coach had a bit discussion to me and said, look, if it was up to me, beggars can't be choosers. You can't say no to a fight like this because you fucking got popped. You mean suspended, and now you're back in the game. And you're getting gifted.

you know, a chance to still kind of, you know, make history by beating me. So you can't fucking be a choosing and say no to fight me. But I'm glad he turned around and said yes. But I don't know, man. I don't really care, to be honest. I mean, fuck, let him go juice up. I still fuck him up. As for that main event, let's say you do get the title shot off of a performance at UFC

234. Who is it you end up thinking that you're facing? I feel like Robert's going to win. I feel like Robert's going to win that fight. Calvin's no joke. You know, he's a Mexicano. The way they fight, a lot of heart, a lot of skill. And I just feel like it's going to be a back and forth fight,

but Rob's going to come out and talk. I've got plans. I'll make some shit happen. I'll make some shit happen. It's normal. And I guess before we let you go, as we consider this fight, everyone says this and then everyone kind of just sort of repeats this, the boilerplate language.

But in your mind, how, of all your combat sports experience, is this the most important one? Is this the one where everything changes in an instant? Lukey, I'll tell you this right now. This means more to me than the fucking world title. I'm getting choked up people right not thinking about it. Like, honestly, this fucking means the world to me.

UFC 90 was the first time I watched this guy fight live. Before that, I was watching them on DVDs, fucking murking dudes. And now I get to like, the guy I watched, I emulated for so long. I get, this is like LeBron James getting to face Michael Jordan. Like the fuck, you know?

So this means more to me than any fucking shiny belt. Like, I can kill this guy and then I'd be like, yo, I've done what I came here to do. I'm done. But I'm not done. After this, I'm going to do other things.

God comes along with it, but then I'll carry on the legacy of the avatars in this game. All right, before I let you go, your dog, what's the dog? name? His name is Millie there, but we call it Millie for sure. What kind of, is it a pit bull?

He's just a shit and living. Yeah, it's a pity. And I've got, I've kind of been, being clucky recently. So I've already made my next, uh, my next purchase, if you will. So I've kind of, I'll get her when I get back from Ireland when I get back from the wedding. So yeah, I can't wait to build a pack. And I'm looking for a rag dog cat as well.

I've always won this for years, man. Like, they just like the less countryest came. There he is. There he is. My coach is calling me. I think he's calling me. Are you on the call? Yeah.

So, yeah, I just, I mean, I just want to have my own people with me. Dogs, I love dogs. I love animals, you know, so I'm not really a cat person, but I kind of want to try. They're great. I got two dogs in the cat. They're awesome. But you know what? You look like you're enjoying a wonderful day there.

I don't want to spoil it anymore. Congrats to you on this opportunity. I can't wait to see the fight and enjoy your overseas travel. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. I'm going to be working, by the way. It's not a working holiday, so I'm not going to be over there just fucking around. This is the greatest fight I'm ever going to have yet.

So I got to be ready, duck my eyes, cross my tease. All right, you go do that. Thank you, Israel. Appreciate it. Peace. There he is. All right. We are back.

Big thanks to Israel, out of Sonia, for stopping by. I believe we're trying to get in touch with one Frank Meir. Give him a call on his phone. He tweeted about it. He Instagramed about it. So he should be there. Do we want to do tweets or do we want to hold off on that? You should hold off?

All right, let's do this. While we wait for Mr. Mir, yeah, when we wait for Mr. Mir, let me give him some additional thoughts on Israel. First of all, that dude is real accommodating of the media, spending time constantly to talk to people like me and all the other outlets in that part of the world and certainly in North American media as well. I don't know how much longer that's going to be the case,

but we are certainly appreciative of his time. And look, man, I get the fight. I get the fight, right? You beat guy like Anderson Silva on a big card where the middleweight title is being contested. You're doing it in that region. They can be a big star over there. He can be a big star over here. It's a torch passing.

It's the whole bit. But I think we had it, I'm sure we'll talk about later. We had Danny Seguer and I had a bit of a debate, like, who we'd like to see him fight next. And I was obviously very against it. But for those reasons, because it's like I get all the promotional side of it. And it's going to be huge if he goes in there and just, you know, schools them or whatever. But at the same time, it's like, I don't know, man.

I don't know how competitive that is. But at the same time, I've been burying guys before and been wrong. So here's the thing I would say about it. I think you just have to kind of wait and see how Anderson looks. And we'll just go from there. Maybe he looks better than we think. Maybe it's competitive. Maybe it's not.

Maybe it's every one of our fears manifested. But, you know, cats out of the back at this point anyway, right? toothpaste is out of the tube. Not going to find a way to put it back in, I suppose. Um, well, here goes nothing. UFC 234, middleweight title fight. And by the way, folks are going to say, oh, well, how can he get a title fight off of Anderson Silva about? Anderson Silva is not even ranked, or if he is, certainly not anywhere close at the top. Like any of that matters. The point is, it's a star making title shot in a way, right? Where you're sitting at this position to be a star. and you beat this guy who has been, you know,

maybe some consider the best of all time, they hand you the torch, and now you're that guy. So it's like, did he beat a Romero? No. Did he beat a Rockhold? No. The Jacare fight wasn't going to happen.

But you're in close proximity, literally in terms of the co-made main event, on how the card is structured. And you have this huge torch passing moment. If he looks good doing it, who could deny him? You know, they're just going to. They're just going to.

So that's why I asked that. Because I know there's going to be haters out there being like, oh my God, that's not title shot worthy. Well, in a perfect meritocratic world, I could not argue with that. No, it would not even be close. But alas, that is not the world we are living in. So, there you go. Okay.

What do we want to do here? You want to make some time for some tweets or no? Let's go to tweets because we can't get attention to Mr. Mirr just yet. So right now, it's time for a round of tweets. All right, five minutes on the clock, and as soon as that expires, or as soon as the first tweet goes up, that will get going. Let's do it, hit it. Yes, okay.

Hi, L. Thomas News. What was the biggest upset of the weekend? NGon News, win over Blades or I-Bars. Oh, God, Jesus Christ, 3 over Real Madrid. Cheers from Brazil. Hey, can you hold that tweet so I can block him later? Thank you. Next.

So Tito took the series, one to two, only feeling we get a fourth match now. How much are you looking forward to that after such an epic trilogy, Luke? I'm not. I'm not. I think they should be done. And Tito even said they're done. Now, Tito says he's been done a number of times, but I really think it's true now.

So I don't need to see it. I think that's enough at this point. Next. What grade would you give Golden Boys first MMA show? Good question. Wow. Man. That's a tough question.

I'm trying not to stall here, but I see a passing grade. I give him a passing grade. Did a lot of things right. Did a lot of things wrong. But general C, the issue with Chuck is that he deserved at least an opportunity to show what was there. And now that you've seen it, now you have much more difficult questions to ask. And Tito's retiring too, apparently. So I'm not as horrified by the booking as I am a potential rebooking.

So for that sense, in that way, I'm not going to dock him. But yeah, see. Next. Why are people surprised that Liddell looked a shell of his former cell phone? That's all anyone was talking about in the buildup. Right. So here's the deal with that. It's a fine question.

But the answer is pretty simple, right? It's because a lot of times folks have been buried. And then they come back and show you that that burial was premature. Now, you had lots of reasons to think that that was not going to be the case with Chuck, the way in which his career had ended, the 10 years or whatever had been off. You had lots of, you had plenty of skeptical room

in which to express yourself. But to the point, Golden Boy didn't go commission shopping. They went to California, and they may have done that for business reasons, but by hook or by crook, they ended up in a state with very, very good regulation. Consequently, because of that good regulation,

and because of the extra scrutiny put on fighters over 40 and the extra testing that they had to do, folks thought, okay, well, maybe there's something here. There was at least a little bit of curiosity about a potential comeback, but in the end, I think that the initial skepticism was warranted.

But the idea is that, look, they sold it to you. They passed some scrutiny, and they passed some tests. They passed some hurdles. And so folks were like, okay, let's give it one more try. I think certainly that's my position, or was prior to Saturday. Now it's like, okay, seen it enough. Next.

In the lead up to the fight, Chuck said if he couldn't beat Tito, then he shouldn't be there. But refused to say he was done after the fight. We'll see what happens. Right. Well, some guys like right when they have the end of their career, they're happy to call it. They know it. They're done. It's no problem. They're ready to go. And a lot of people think they are, and they changed their minds. You know, Vini Meghalash once retired and he came back and he's looking great. People changed their mind. So I think he just didn't want to make a decision on the spot. I wouldn't read too much more into it.

than that. But hopefully he comes to the appropriate conclusion. Next. Did you enjoy Tito's walkout music on Saturday night? I couldn't believe he came out to Limp Biscuit. No is the answer. But on some ways, maybe that was the most appropriate music to come out to, given the original state of their rivalry. Next. Given the fact that Oscar could not even show up for the post-to-fight presser, what is your opinion on the future of Golden Boy, MMA is a viable promotion? I think they were going to give it a shot, see if they could make some money off of it, and then Canelo signed that his own deal, which by the way, isn't just for Canello, it's for like, I think 10 Golden Boy shows a year, and Oscar was like, yeah, I'll finish this out, but I don't think he's got

any real long-term plans. Maybe if another opportunity arises between two people who fit the bill, he might, but I wouldn't count on it. Next. Should a commission or company slash league have the ability to tell an athlete to retire and how liable should they be if they use those fighters to make money? Should a commission or company league have the ability to tell athlete to retire? Commission, yes, and a company league does not have to employ their services. How liable should they be if they use those fighters to make money? It depends on the extent of the liability. Next.

Fantasy matchup, Tito versus Anderson Silva. They're both 43. They should both retire, but if they did fight, who's your pick? I'm going to pick Tito. I think Tito is just a little bit fresher. He looked physically good. I'm going to go with him. One more.

With the following fights on this weekend, Horn and Mundine, Tyson and Wilder, Bellator 210 and 211, UFC Fight Night and the Ultimate Fighter finale. What bouts are sleepers on this card? Are you looking forward to most? I've only paid attention to Tyson versus Wilder. Dude, I've not even looked at. Oh, I guess Camar Usman versus Hafele de Sanjas. I've not even looked at those other cards.

I've not even looked at them. Couldn't tell you. Sorry. It's true. You got the buzzer only about 10 seconds late, boys. All right, what's the word on Mr. Mir? Still trying to find him? Okay.

All right, let's see if we can get old Mr. Levato on there. That card, by the way, the 214 card. I remember read to Bellator 214. This takes place January 26th at the forum in Englewood, California. Listen to this. You've got Fador Al-Meynenenko taking on Ryan Bader. Now you have Gagard Musassi taking on Rafael Lovato Jr. Aaron Pico taking on Henry Corrales.

How about that? That's going to be a hell of a card. And then, of course, it's going to go head to head with the UFC 233 card, if I'm not mistaken, which is also a pretty excellent card as well. So that should be a ton of fun on that night in California. Very much looking forward to that. You know, Lovato's a super interesting test case. You guys ever looked at his Wikipedia page?

There's like a gazillion medals for what he did in Jiu-Jitsu. It's like shocking how many he has. And he's just sort of had a really, really interesting run in MMA. He's only been fighting since 2014. He fought once in 2014, once in 2015. twice in 2016, three times in 2017, and twice this year. Of course, his next belt would be 2019. He's not been fighting that long and really didn't kick into high gear until 2016,

to be totally honest with you. And it's just been one hell of a push. So let's just show expedite things. Let's go to him now. Joining us via The Magic of Skype is the man himself, one of the most decorated black belts in the history of Jiu-Jitsu. And now, Bellator middleweight title contender, Raphael Lovato Jr. is here.

Hi, Mr. Lovato. How are you? I'm wonderful. How are you doing? I'm doing so well, my friend. Let me read you something I got from your manager. Many, many years ago, not years ago, but this is last year early in the first quarter. Here's what he told me. We believe that 2018 could see him propel to a championship fight at 185 or at least an eliminator that gets it teed up in 2019. Wow. Talk about calling your shot. You guys had this plan and it all came to fruition. That's pretty amazing.

Yes, thank you. It was definitely, you know, my goal and my vision to be fighting for the belt around this time. Everything has just worked out perfectly. It's been quite a ride. I'm super, super thankful to be in this position right now. All right. Let's talk about how this fight got made. They call you right up right away and say, hey, this is what we want for UFC 214. Did they give you an indication after your last fight that maybe this was coming? How did it get put together? Well, the last fight was definitely, you know, kind of booked as a number one contender fight. You know, John Sartner had been one of the top contenders for quite some time. So, you know, everything was surrounding that fight was that it was a title, the winner was going to get a title shot. That's definitely what I was pushing for and hoping for. So, you know, after winning that fight, I definitely felt good about my chances.

But, of course, you never really know how it. it's going to go. And a lot of it, I think, kind of rested on what Musasi wanted to do. If he said, no, I don't want to fight that guy. I'll wait for Machita. I think Bellator probably would have granted his wish. But, you know, he wants to be a really active champion right now, which is amazing. And the fact that the UFC happened to be on the same day, I think they really wanted to

stack the card up and get two title fights on there. And so, I mean, it all just worked out like Destiny. know, Musasi wants to fight. I earn my spot and, you know, Belator wants to make the card stack. So here we are. Interesting. All right. So let's talk about the matchup itself. You've seen Musassi. He might be the best middleweight right now or certainly the best version of himself anyway. When you assess the challenge, what do you see? I mean, I see a great big challenge for sure. You know, he has tons of experience. I've been watching him for quite a long time. He's been one of my favorite fighters over the years, super technical, very well-rounded. You know, he can beat the kickboxers on the ground,

and the ground fighters, you know, he's usually able to be standing up. So he's very versatile. You know, I think everyone can see this fight basically for what it is, him having the striking advantage and me having the advantage on the ground. It's definitely not going to be easy to get him there. But, you know, for me, the game plan is definitely to try to take him down and use my jih Tzu. I mean, I'd be crazy to try to keep with him. So, you know, I just want to test his jih Tzu a little bit and take it to where I'm on my strength. But it's sort of an interesting situation, right? Because I've interviewed you before several now of these Belator fights. And you've been at a point to be like, look, yes, of course, the jihitsu is a nice

ace in the hole, but I've really got to work on my striking. I've really got to get good. And you have, like, that's a big part of your arsenal. I understand your point about, look where I'm strongest, look where he's strongest, but also haven't you been on a path so that you don't have to retreat to that? Yeah, for sure. I mean, what I don't want is to have, is to come off like, you know, uncomfortable and, like, you know, expose myself reaching for takedowns and, you know, being sort of almost scared on the, you know, so, you know, I've been working a lot on my stand-up game,

my striking, my Muay Thai. And, you know, I've been able to make some big improvements very quickly, I feel like, even having a couple of fights that took place almost primarily on the feet. And, you know, it's not like I've been getting dominated on the field. But, of course, I haven't been fighting anyone the level of Musassi. So I definitely respect to stand up. But, you know, that's where the fight's going to start. So I'm going to be ready.

And for me, I think the benefit of me on the feet, you know, is that most people are going to be very, you know, scared of opening themselves up for a takedown because they don't want to end up on the bottom of me. So that's one of my biggest advantages. So, you know, I plan to exploit that. The fact that I can throw whatever I want, and usually no one's really going to want to try to take me down, that also helps. So I can be a little more open with my stand-up game and, you know, threaten many different things all at once, with punches, kickdowns, knees, elbows, everything. You know, the plan is definitely to utilize all the weapons.

And the fact that I'm long, you know, helps me in that as well. So you've got nine pro fights. Now you've got a gazillion matches in jiu-jitsu, probably more than anybody could even count. But in terms of MMA, you're, I guess, technically, relatively inexperienced. Does it bring you trepidation that you only have nine? Or more, do you look at it and say, that's a lot of miles I don't have on my body?

in terms of MMA competition? Yeah, for me it's very positive. You know, definitely I don't have, you know, tons of grueling, grinding fights that put the miles on my body. So that's a good thing. You know, I am older, but still young in the MMA game. So I don't quite feel that damage or that mileage. And I think that the fact that I'm older is also a plus, too,

because I came into the sport, you know, very aware of who I was and what my goals were, what I'm trying to accomplish, you know, with a good head on my shoulders, so to speak. I wasn't out there. You know, I'm not out there just trying to, you know, make a big name or whatever, like, kind of, you know, feather my ego or anything like that. You know, since what I've, what I've, I've already made my mark in the martial arts, and I'm very happy with that. For me, this is a very enjoyable challenge and enjoyable journey that's bringing me closer to so many of my teachers and people that are very special to me in my martial arts journey.

They're all coming together with me for this part of my martial arts journey. It's like my whole life wrapped into one. So I'm having a lot of fun. and for sure the years of jih Tzu competition, that experience definitely helps me. You know, I'm used to, you know, I was the up-and-coming guy, and then I made my mark.

I became a world champion, and then I was dealing with, you know, having the target on my back. So I've kind of been through it all in jiu-jitsu. So this is new to me, but that experience definitely applies. And, you know, I'm really relaxed in this, in this place where I met right now

and just, you know, feeling super grateful and happy and ready to kind of put my stamp on my martial arts career here on January 26th. When do you feel worse after a fight or after a jiu-jitsu tournament? Like as far as being sore and beat up? Yeah. Both can be bad. You know, I've had some fights where, like,

I wasn't even really that sore at all. the last fight, I definitely felt it. There was a lot of, you know, a lot of impact, and I threw a lot of kicks, and so my legs got a little beat up. I think that's one of the areas that hurts the worst in M.A. is, like, you know, the shins, all right, and absorbing all the kicks or kicking and hitting their elbows or their legs, you know. But, man, I'll say this, though.

There are some jihitsu tournaments where, you know, I've had seven or eight matches in one day over the span of, like, you know, 10 hours. And those days are pretty brutal as well. So, you know, you have the lumps and bruises of MMA and then just the tightness that the Jitsu can give you from going up and down, up and down, getting warmed up, competing, cooling back down, trying to warm up again, you know, and doing that all day long is pretty tough too. So they're both equally, I mean, I don't want to say equally. In different ways, they both can beat up the body pretty good. But, you know, what's funny is actually the day of an MMA fight, I actually feel more relaxed than what I normally do the day of a Jitia tournament. Because in Jiu-Jitsu, there's so many variables as far as, you know, all the matches that you could have, the different games that you're going to run into, the referees and how they're going to score and decisions and whatnot.

Whereas in MMA, it's basically all in your hands. It's one guy. You know, they're going to shut the doors. and it's up to you to get the victory. So for that, I've become a little more calm and just like, all right, you know, I'm ready and I just trust my things. So there's some interesting, you know, differences there. But right now, for me, I'm having a lot more fun with MMA right now than what I've had for quite some time. Yeah, I can imagine.

Are you one of the last of the Mohicans? Let me make this point. So you look around at the guys who are stars of Jiu-Ti-D-Soo today. Now, Gary Tonin made his way to MMA. He's over at one. But you got guys like Gordon Ryan, Kenan Cornelius, Gianni Grippo, and they'll tell you outright, they don't have to come to MMA anymore. You're a little bit old school. You're like that pre-Cornelius generation where all those guys made their way over.

Are we going to see fewer and fewer of you in MMA? As far as jiu-s guys, you know, the highest-level of judezsche guys transitioning into MMA, you know, probably, yeah, I would say they, the amount of opportunities there are in jih Tutsu, and the fact that jih Tutsu, like the people coming up now, I already see Jitsu as this big sport, and maybe they don't ever look at MMA the same way as something like, I want to go to that level. But, you know, nowadays guys are getting so many opportunities

making good money, big professional events, that they can almost add that same level of stardom just doing jih Tidoo versus switching over to M.A. So I would definitely say there's going to be less and less of that going on. But there's a bigger pool to choose from now. So, you know, the guys that do transition over, I think, are going to have a great shot of being successful, especially if their game doesn't rely too much on one set of rules. And they're able to cross over between glee, no gie, and all the different formats,

those people could be very successful in a minute. I still believe in that. But, you know, I come from that, definitely that old school era, where when I first started to change it to, you know, I didn't even know about any world titles like that. You know, there was no sport, really. You know, it was still in Brazil in its beginning phases. So, you know, you trained because it was an important element of your complete

martial arts, you know, system, you know, of self-defense. You had to know how to fight on the ground. So that's how I started training up in that world, you know, under my father and his beliefs of being a well-rounded martial artist. And so for me, you know, it was sort of inevitable that one day I would end up in the case. But nowadays, you know, I definitely think there's less and less, I want to say, pressure, but, you know, motivation, I guess I would say, for guys to come over and get punched in the face whenever they can, you know, have tons of opportunities to do and get a little more, a little more relaxing. Now, you just kind of alluded to it, so I guess I'll just make it a very brief question.

It sounds like what you're looking for is the complete journey of your athletic and martial arts experience. So some kind of matriculation was inevitable. It's not, because I'm guessing. that all these companies that are around now, they must be ringing your phone as well. I mean, not exactly. You know, I'm really happy with where I'm at, and I think everyone sees my climb and are letting me, you know, do my thing. But you're 100% right about, you know, this being the sort of the culmination of all my years of martial arts training.

you know, I kind of the pre-Jitsu journey under my father that was very much, you know, the JKD Jekundo system and mindset of becoming a well-rounded, you know, complete martial artist. And that led us to Jitsu. And then I had my, you know,

basically all my teenage years into my 20s dedicated 100% to becoming the best to practitioner I could possibly be. And now this is sort of phase three where it all comes together. You know, competition is in my blood. I love to compete. So, of course, it's only natural to be in the cage. And, you know, like I said, just trying to, you know, sort of leave my mark, you know,

and experience, you know, what it is, you know, this of who I'm I am complete martial artist to compete against the best. So that's why I'm so thankful, you know, for this opportunity to go against one of the great ones I respect so much. And I think it's just an amazing opportunity that I'm going to take 100%. One of the good parts about this bout, I'm

guessing from your perspective is there's not a guy trying to be antagonistic across the faceoff from you. You're seeing in sport jujitsu, certainly in MMA as well, this rise of trash talk, of trolling of antagonism. Doesn't seem like it's a big part of your game. I'm wondering what you make of it in the game more especially.

Again, not really relevant for your next contest, but it could be for your first or second title defense if things go well. Yeah, I mean, for me, that's like, you know, I mean, it's part of it in MMA for sure. Definitely a lot more of that goes on than what there is in Jiu-Jitsu. And for Jiu-Zitsu, it's very new. I think, you know, the media that's in Jiu-Jitsu now, and along with social media, has definitely kind of pushed the amount of trash talking going on, and the way the guys want to get matches and get things like that. In MMA, it's definitely going on for a lot longer. And, you know, I think it is nice this fight to have someone that is more on that, you know,

true martial artists, you know, it's a phrase I like to use. you know, that sort of mindset where they just let their skills speak for themselves, you know, the actions speak for themselves, and they don't feel the need to talk or, you know, downgrade anybody, you know, talk bad about them or insult them in any way. You know, if it comes and, you know, there's been a little bit, I see a little bit here and there, you know, people calling me out or things like that. It doesn't really affect me, doesn't really bother me. I just, I don't like to put my energy into that sort of thing.

So, you know, if other people feel like that's what they need to do, that's fine. For me, I'm all about putting out the positive energy and, of course, trying to be a good role model as well for all the other young martial artists out there coming up and show that sort of values that my father taught me. Yeah, it's just always so weird to come from a school where you bow to get on the mat and then everybody is out there talking about each other's mom. It's a bizarre contradiction, isn't it? Yeah, for sure. You know, that's one thing that I've talked about before. And, like, I don't always think it's who that person really is, you know, because for sure they've learned the values that the martial arts has given them.

And so it's almost like a, you know, bipolar, like split personality. It's like there's the real person and then there's the person at front of the camera or on social media. that's just trying to get paid for whatever and move up a little faster by talking. And so, you know, that's one way to go about it. You know, and if you're trying to feature family and things like that, you know, I guess I get it, but I'm going to try to be true to who I really am

and try to stand for something positive at the end of the day versus, you know, just talking, just trying to make money. Very quickly, on the top of the card you're on is Fador versus Bader. Now Fador has, we think, maybe turn back the clock a little bit. It's kind of hard to say. Bader is the toughest challenge. But it's an interesting question in the following sense.

In Jiu-Jitsu, as you well know, there's master's divisions. And people can compete well past their sort of elite black belt competition age. I'm wondering what you make of someone like the idea of a master's division in MMA. Is such a thing a good idea? Is it even possible? Sorry, I'm changing scenes here. It's okay. No, I like that.

I think that would be awesome. You know, I mean, for sure, they got to take care of their health and make sure that, you know, it's okay for them, obviously, you know, pass all the exams. And they're, you know, as long as they have a good bill of health and they've taken care of themselves over the years, you know. like obviously I don't want to get ridiculous like you know there's definitely a point where they just need to hang it up but um you know like henzo for example is definitely took care of himself and you know he fought not too long ago at the age of 50 and I thought it was amazing um you know and I think there's others who who are aging very well uh that that can you know still put up a good fight you know and as long as they're matched accordingly um I would still love to watch it you know it's still tech technical and it's inspiring. So I think it's okay. And, you know, these guys, like, they fight their whole lives. Like, they still have the fight in them, you know.

I mean, for me, I already know I'm never going to be able to stop. I'm going to be doing the master division, you know, at all the jihitsu tournaments until I can't walk anymore. So, you know, to see something like that in their may, I think would be cool, you know, but obviously to a certain extent, you know, let's not get. crazy and risk anybody's, you know, health. But they've taken care of themselves and, you know, they got a good opponent that is kind of the same sort of like a legends division. Guys have maybe fought each other, you know, 10, 20 years ago.

Yeah, give them some more fights. Let them keep doing what they love and inspire us all to keep going. All right. Last question before we let you go. You want a gazillion medals in Jiu-Jitsu. I could read them off for days, but people can look it up for themselves. Let's say you win the Belator middleweight title at Belator 214. Is there any way to help us understand from your perspective where you, and maybe you don't rank your medals in such a way,

but I'm just trying to understand where that would fit into your larger body of work in terms of some of the higher titles you've achieved? I mean, it's definitely going to be an amazing, amazing moment. you know, I believe in it so much and, you know, the feeling that I'm getting as I visualize it is just incredible, you know, but of course, whenever I was a kid, I had these incredible dreams in Shih Tzu as well, and I was able to make, you know, most of those come true. And those were amazing moments that I'll never forget also. But this is just, you know, the next level. So I can't say that it's going to be bigger or more than what those were at that time. But today, it's definitely bigger. Like if I won another world title in Jiu-Sit-Soo right now, it wouldn't, it would not have near the same effect as what this is going to have on January 26.

So, you know, everything is all about who you are at that time. and right now for me, this will definitely be the greatest moment of my career. Well, I can't wait to see it. It's going to be incredible. Bellator 2-14. This will go down January 26th

at the forum in Inglewood, California, and Rafael Levato Jr. takes on Gagard Musassi for the Bellator middleweight title. Congratulations on the opportunity. Cannot wait to see you fight. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Luke. Appreciate it.

Good to talk to you again. Always, always. Good to talk to him. All right. All right, what's the deal? No, no, no. Let's, I have an idea. I got, okay, so we're still scheduled to have Alistair 1, right?

That's still the thing. All right. In the meantime, let me bring this up. So, we're talking about the big talking point here, the big point of discussion anyway, is about whether or not older fighters should be allowed to compete. And I think certainly it's a very difficult topic because I don't know that we're understanding,

or we don't, I don't know that we understand aging and athleticism as well as we should. Also, I don't think this is as relevant a concern in other sports. In other sports, when you're abounded to perform at the highest level is compromised, fandom naturally wanes. But in MMA, it doesn't. So it puts on these unique pressures that force regulatory authorities to make very, very difficult choices. Like, one of the big questions heading into Liddell v. Ortiz was real, basic, right? It was, okay, this guy's going to get all this commission testing, but what value is that if he goes up there and gets viciously knocked out and looks terrible? It's like, yes, that's the best kind of screening available, but how good is that screening if the bad stuff all still happens? It's a very, very good question. So actually, I went and looked it up. Now, this is from the Association of Boxing Commissions. Medical clearance,

of an older fighter. Yes? Okay. Here is what it says. For someone over the age of 40, they have to get an initial test of an MRI, a magnetic resonance angiogram of the brain. I do not know what this does.

Then they have to get annual testing that should include the following. It doesn't say it must. So I wonder how required this is. They have to get an MRI of the brain without contrast, an EKG, Cardiac testing that provides both myocardial perfusion and echocardiographic structural assessment. An exercise stress echocardiogram is the recommended method, however, a combination of an echocardiogram

in addition to another form of cardiac stress testing may be acceptable. Annual formal, excuse me, annual formal neurocognitive testing with a notation of any deterioration from the baseline assessment. blood work including a complete blood count and complete metabolic panel, which includes hepatic tests, blood urea, nitrogen, creatinine, not creatine, but creatinine, and glucose, and then ophthalmologic eye exam with pupil dilation and retinal examination. Apparently, these are some of the extra battery of tests that someone has to get, if they're over the age of 40, to get a license, particularly in a state, like what you call it, like California. So here's the point

about this. It sounds like those tests have some value, particularly but not limited to the way in which it evaluates your cardiovascular health, your organ health. But I don't know how much it really fully measures whether or not. Like, these are fine tests, but clearly something is missing when you have situations where, you know, Chuck Lillow probably passed all of the neurocognitive testing no problem, but they're establishing from a baseline and whether there was deterioration from the baseline. How much does it have to do with his ability

to absorb punishment? Like, which should any of these tests is that a function of and told to us? I don't know the answer to that. Like, these are all big, fancy medical terms, but the big question I have is, do your test tell us

if someone can take a shot or not? Do your test tell us, you know, like you can pass all of these tests, but you're not passing the eye test in terms of movement, in terms of hand speed, in terms of the way which you used to compete. So here's my point.

I'm not in any way calling for, I'm not in any way suggesting that the commissions aren't doing their job. As I've said before, they're in a very, very unique, difficult predicament. I fully accept that. I fully understand that. MMA is so weird because we're asking these older athletes

to do something that we don't ask older athletes, to do hardly in any other sport exceptions here or there that kind of prove the rule. I read to you the battery of tests that you have to have by the Association of Boxing Commissions. If you're over the age of 40, they seem quite good. They seem reasonable, but they seem woefully insufficient. To me, the question is, what other tests are out there that we need to have? Are there even tests out there that can answer the questions that we would have or is this the best we have? Because if this is the best we have, this is a good screen, but definitely not a great one. There's another level to this that I think we haven't quite

reached that we're trying to figure out. Okay, Danny, how about this as we try to fix these problems here a little bit? Why don't we do the sound off now? Does that sound like a good idea? Yes, no? I could not hear Danny in the back. All right. Let's time now for you. the sound off. All right. Trying to figure out what's happening to our guests. Time now for the sound off right here on the MMA hour with my man in the back. How come half our guests just disappeared? Sorry. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's so weird. It is so weird. Very strange. Frank even tweeted about it. I know, which is the weirdest part. Did you make contact with him? I texted both of them. Oh, wait. He just got back to me. Who did? Call me now. Is it Frank? Alistar.

I guess we're going to have Alistair on. All right. Let's get Alster on and then we'll do the sound off a little bit later. How's that sound? Yep. Fake news. Very fake news. All right. Alster's on.

What a performance he had over the weekend. Yes? Over at U.S.C. Beijing? Crazy, right? I wanted to get him on because he was facing a bit of a difficult moment at age 38. But he had a nice win. Just absolutely blew through this guy, Sergei Pavlovich. Like, it was nothing.

So let me know when we get him on. I would love to go to him. I'm excited about this as well. Another one of these scenarios where you just had to be very, very careful about suggesting someone is no longer able to compete at the highest level or even compete at all.

You have to be very, very careful about these kinds of things. And again, Sergei Pavlovich, not necessarily the same level as Francis and Ghanu, but Overeign looked really good. Remember, Chuck wasn't really throwing, and Chuck's much older, of course, but Chuck wasn't really throwing any punches hardly,

He was just not a lot happening. Dude, Overeem was in the pocket. I mean, absolutely dictating offense, taking him down, vicious ground and pound, like it was nothing. He was actually looking tremendous. All right, let's go to him now. He got a great win over a Sergei Pavlovich, got back in the winter circle.

It was a hell of a performance. He joins us now in the hotline. The Ream is here, Alistair Overeem. Hi, Alistair. How are you? You're good, man. I'm good. I'm good.

I just said I got back to Holland. always good to be back here if I'm in a long time. Well, we... Yeah, no, life is good. Well, be honest, Alistair, how good did that win feel? It seemed like it really, really meant a lot to you.

It definitely meant a lot, and it was also neither, right? Too devastating losses. Yeah, I don't know. I can't, you know, I always put my heart and soul in every camp, and then when you lose, it was like, hey, this is not good, and then you lose again. It didn't happen to a lot. often in my career, but that definitely does break you up and things must change, right?

You can't, you can't really lose free in a row. And then the other thing was, you know, against an up-and-coming guy, undefeated, you know, very hungry, a young lion coming up. So, yeah, in the end, every fight is 50-50, every fight does the X factor. But, yeah, we had to pull it out. We had to pull it together. And we did. You know what was interesting to me, Alicester, I was just saying it.

Dude, you looked, your movement was good. You were throwing shots. Like, you weren't gun-shy at all. You were, the ground of pound was tremendous. Like, there was no sign of a drop-off. Were you worried after the Curtis Blades fight? Did you ever question yourself about whether you could still do it? What I do after a lot is kind of always analyze everything.

And after the Kurdish fight, actually already had a sense. I detected a couple of things that was not right. had the Kurdish fight, it got confirmed, but there were a couple of other things that's not right. And I believe I addressed them all, and then you come back stronger, right? And then I showed.

No, it absolutely did. Did you know a lot about your opponent, Sergei Pavlovich? Anything until I heard the name. And, yeah, you kind of go off and once on the Internet, right? So on the Internet, it was not entirely accurate because it stated he was like $2.45.

but he was like 6-1 or 6-2. So I was like, hmm, that's strange, like a small, like actually like a heavy big guy. Okay, he's undefeated, your YouTube little bit, you see some fights. But I wanted to fight. I wanted to be on the Beijing card.

That actually initially was my wish, because Curtis was going to be on that card, and I thought, hey, it's going to be good, because I just heard the quickest team, team elevation, great guys, by the way. And I thought if we can share that card, that'll be quality time. and we'll be in camp together, and then that'll just be good.

Then kind of I didn't hear anything, I thought that that was not going to happen. But then you see contact me and said, yeah, we've got to have five weeks. It was like four weeks before, something, three and a half weeks before. You can fight this up-and-comer guy. I had a huge email out of Google him. I had no idea. But, yeah, one of the fight felt the chemistry was there. And also China, right?

China's huge country, huge market. hadn't fought in China before. I'd only be there once before during a PR, UFC PR tour. But it was always, you know, I love elevation. I love going there,

love the people. So I definitely wanted that in my career, yeah. How did you get hooked up with Elevation Fight Team? Actually, a little bit of funny story. I was actually talking to Curtis after his win over Marc Honda. I ran into him in the hotel

in Shirley and Fiddingerrf. And we were talking a little bit because, yeah, I'm running short of Sparupon. I'm saying, hey, let's say you're going to, why not? And he's like, oh, yeah, so I'll shoot your message. Okay, then what happened was our fight got announced, me and Curtis Blake, so we stopped talking. Previously we had to say a couple of messages back and forth.

So then our fight got announced and stopped talking. The fight happened, and then after a fight, um, yeah, I was like, you know what? We didn't be good. We need to make some changes. Let me figure out the gym situation, and I just feed them up. And in this year, this is also funny.

And I thought it was training in very legit. So I was talking to Dwayne about going there, and I was talking to some other coaches as well. But nobody from team elevation. So right before I got on the plane, I texted Curtis. He says, hey, I'm going to me in town. Yeah, we used to open the train.

And said, yeah, yeah, sure, I'll see your address. So I was in Denver. and he took me to the adjutants they were going to be training here and here at so-and-so at time. So I just showed up and it was team elevation.

I had never heard about the team before and I didn't know the coaches didn't know who was in there but they were like looking at me straight like what is he doing here? I just walked in there with his trading game.

And then that was the beginning but I just loved it. I loved the team energy. I love the chemistry, love the coaches and actually never left. That's crazy. So was it, it sounds like you and Curtis are like good training partners? I mean, how would you characterize your relationship with him? Good, gentlemen. You know, in my 25 years of training, I've trained with all kinds of fighters, athletes, stars, all kinds. And yeah, Curtis is a hard worker and a nice guy, nice kid. I mean, I was usually a little younger, but he's, you know, I, there's no ego.

between us. We thought he was the better man, and I just accepted it, and as a mixed martial arts, I felt for him to improve the craft. And I think he was open to the idea. I never felt any bad fight for him at all. And

yeah, I appreciate him for that as well. You know, because you know, in my 20-5 years, I've trained with all kinds of fighters, all kinds of, sometimes it's jealousy, sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes you just don't vibe. But with criticism vibe, it did instantly. Yeah, I just felt instantly at home, and I'm like in a lot of action.

So is it going to be the new – I know you have your own team as well, so a lot of the Dutch guys around you, but is this going to be your North American training hub going forward? Actually, when I decided to join the new team, I mean, I flew in indeed some guys from from Europe, so a couple of guys from Holland from Sweden. But I said I'm going to go in a little different direction. and that's also because of team elevation everything is there

right and why would you fly an extra guys and have extra expenses to yeah I thought and I also wanted to go along because I thought if I fly in my group of guys my crew even if it's like two three guys

you kind of create a group within the group I wanted to avoid that I was like you know what I'm just going to go by myself I'll make friends again and I think that approach paid off in this one yeah well I got to say Alster, you looked great. I mean, yes, you felt a guy who was relatively an experience,

but just in terms of your body language, you seemed completely dialed in. What was interesting to me was afterwards, you went on social media and you called a few folks out. Let's start with it. Which fight do you want more? Hotballs Derek Lewis or Francis and Ghanu? Absolutely for hotball.

Now, why is that? Okay, so we haven't talked to. and he's ranked higher. He's just ranked higher. You know, I definitely have a score to sort of with Francis and I have no doubt that I'm undoubtedly never happening in the future sometime. But to me, Derek Lewis is more appealing because of those two reasons. I haven't fought him before, does number one in his higher rank.

Now, aside for the fact you haven't fought before, he's higher ranked, what do you make of him as a fighter, as an opponent? He's a heavy hitter. I can put him away. I am going to put him right. We fight, I will put him away 100%. Hmm. What did you make of his last couple of fights, particularly the Volkov fight?

The Volkov fight was very interesting because he was losing, but he was not really in any damage of being knocked out or submitted. So he was losing on points, and then he pulled the trigger. I didn't came back with that amazing flu. he had the other fight I don't know you know

he's a guy you know if he hits you in trouble but other than that he doesn't really have anything on you right

strong but no submission game and and he kind of expose him a little bit but yeah

that's that's the only thing don't get hit by him that's his only thing don't get hit now with Francis what did you make of his performance because, you know, he did land a big shot on Curtis.

You could maybe argue the fight was stopped a little bit early, but he did look to be, I don't know, recovered from the last two losses. What did you see? Well, the fight got stopped too early, considering a main event too, right? Because my guy, I hit him like five, six times. And, yeah, what was it? Curtis got hit once on the back of the head, and I think like twice, and then it's quitting early.

So I don't know. But, yeah, it seems like a little reinvigorated. You need to come back as well, right? That's the loss. You got to do something. You got to change something. So he looked good. He looks strong and looked fit.

Look like he always did. What did you make of his performance against Derek Lewis, right? Because he had the bad loss to Stepe. Okay. Right? Stipe was the better guy. And then he came out just lifeless against Derek Lewis. What, as a fighter, when you see that, what do you see?

There's a lacklust of performance against Derek Lewis And, yeah, I don't know I'm sorry, of course You cannot sometimes not have your day I've had that too And that just happens, man And then it all depends on what we do after

How do you come back from that? You know what's interesting about you, Alistair? I've been watching your career for a long time You don't ever get too too high With a great win You definitely celebrate, You definitely enjoy it, but you don't get too too high, and you don't seem to get too too low with the losses either. Now, you've had way more wins, of course, but you never seem to let one performance with the other dictate the next one by and large.

So the basic question is, how on earth do you do that? Because a lot of guys can't seem to manage it. You're not asking something about my character. Okay, so I'll explain something. When I play a, let's say I play a video game, and I really like that video game. and we're playing football, for example. That's one of the games I play a lot with my buddies. And if I get, if I lose a game, I just want to play again.

I don't have any emotions. I just want to play again. And every time I will be better, I'll beat you. There's no emotions, no throwing the joysticks. I don't get sad. I just want to play again. And I think I have that same mentality with fighting. When I lose, of course I'm dumb.

Of course I'm just that. in the last, I'm in the last two fight for a bad loss, right over, I have fucking 60 stitches, banged up, but I just want to go again. But there needs to be some changes, too, because you're not going to, you're not going to go in the same,

you know, you need to build your confidence too, and confidence is not being built, but in the same stuff that didn't work out in the first place. So you make some change, and then you're hitting again. That's a super interesting answer. By the way, not in the video game,

but in real life, do you have a football, a soccer team, Alster? The Dutch national team. I'm they're actually on the roll again now. Oh, the Orange. The Orange. He had a couple of days. And that far I was, they used to walk out in Orange, right, back in the Pride Days? Yes.

He used to walk out in a lot in Orange, so that was, like, in support of the Dutch soccer team. And they did great in 2010. At the second place, they did great in 2014, there was third place. And then they kind of had a little dip, but it seems now in the last six months they're coming back up again. So they're proud of those guys. Yeah, they're actually, they're pretty good. And, you know, I'm a big fan of Arjun Robin. He's actually not too bad.

So just a personal one. He's actually not in the team anymore. He's not in the team anymore. He retired from the Dutch national team. He's old, but he still plays for Byron. He still plays for Byron. Yeah. All right.

So let's talk about this. When do you think you could get back in? Because that was a long flight, I guess. But, man, that was a pretty quick fight. Long flight. It was a great experience to be in China in Beijing. And, yeah, we'll head back to it in a couple weeks, back to training. For now, family time.

My granny is home under three years old. Wow. Every opportunity I get, I go back all in a little bit of a visit. because any moment can be the last, right? She was born in 1915 in the First World War. So she's kind of been through everything. And, yeah, I try to cherish the moments that we have still as much as possible. And then, of course, my three daughters are all based in Holland.

So I try to go back with all this time. I'm here now. I'm going to be a couple weeks in then. Then I'll head back to Denver, to train them. That's a really good camp. Yeah. Very quickly, what is your grandmother's secret to health?

All right, so the funny thing is she's living, she was living independent from 98 years old. She lived by herself. She cooked her own food. And then in the last five years, she now lives in a very small unit. It's like six people and there's like two caretakers for them. but now people cook for her and now she's going to be taken care of but she needs independent for 98 years old

so I think that that is one of the main things right to be independent cook your food cook organic eat organic um yeah uh did you by the way see Chuck Ladell and Tito Ortiz fight over the weekend

so I saw the finish only actually I did see the fight I actually did see the fight yeah What did you make of it? I thought Peter looked really good. I don't think he looked really good. He looked strong.

He was strong bombs. And I think that Chuck didn't look too good, to be honest. I thought Chuck didn't look too good in the pre-work of the videos as well. Of course, I should see everything. I just thought he didn't look good. Hmm. Yeah. I have to be honest about that.

Yeah. And by the way, what is your secret to longevity? because here you are at 38 years old, still looking pretty spry, ready to rock in a very, very, you know, long, decorated career. Yeah, I kind of always be healthy. I always get the bed on time. I don't party. I have an excellent physical practice team. They, you know, to massage my body and stretch and this and that. Yeah, that's it, I guess, that. I guess I have good genes from grandma. 100% still going strong so

no but you know in the end you have to take good care of yourself and I don't know I've also been training for 25 years for always basically always dieting always training of course I had my moments parting here and there but never really crazy I never never did it that often right

I always had fights upcoming fights so I don't know I don't know what what other people all the fighters lifestyles are but mine has been to the dedicated and I think that's where my blood from. Well, it was a hell of a win.

Congratulations, Alistair. I know this win means a lot to you, and it should. You look tremendous, and I wish you nothing but the best, and enjoy two weeks in Holland when we can't wait to see what's next. And hot balls, let's go, man. Let's go. Let's go. Let's get some hot balls.

Okay. Thank you, Alistair. I appreciate it. All right. That's awesome. That's awesome. That'd be a good fight. I'm not mad at that fight.

That'd be a good fight. Are you kidding? Alster versus old Derek? Who wouldn't want to see that? All right. I did the fake news bit before. Let's do the real news now. It is time, ladies and gentlemen, for the sound off.

All right. One more time. Take two. I'm joined now by my man in the back. Danny Seguera. There he is. Bang, bang, finger-gunning it, like Jair, Bolsonaro. He does the finger guns.

a lot. Does he? You didn't know that? No. He's always doing one of these numbers. He's like that guy at the party. I'm going to stop doing it now. Yeah. Okay.

All right, let's talk about this. What do you make of Alistair versus Derek Lewis? You got to love that, yes? I'm all in. Yeah, it makes sense. Alistar, I mean, we were just talking about last episode how this was like a career-defining fight for him,

right at USC Bayesian, and he passes the test with flying colors, an undefeated guy against an undefeated guy, which is amazing. Al-Star of Rareem, in many ways, kind of like Andrei Orlovsky. He has many lives.

Yeah. The thing is... Can't count him out. People have been like, oh, well, he beat a guy he was supposed to beat. Right, but that's the point. Look at how he beat him. He beat him how a prime overreem... Well, I'm a prime, exactly, but certainly he looked...

He beat him as a very capable overreem wood, right? He didn't just scrape by. He didn't just get a win. He dominated him, yeah. Which is super impressive. I mean, 12 dudes, I believe the guy had a 12 and no record. Twelve other dudes tried to do that and they failed. In fact, they got knocked.

out in the first round. So pretty impressive, man. Overim. Is it a thing with heavyweights that they get these second lives or what is it? I don't know. Same thing with Junior Dosantis. For a second, we thought he was going to sort of fade away and then he came back. It's hard to say.

Partly, I think it's just the nature of the division, but also a guy like Overreem has just reinvented himself. Yeah. You know, because he's very, very clever. I think a lot of these guys just kind of figure out a new way to compete. They're still pretty good at it. You know, because over him, you go back and you watch, like, I mean, it's a kickboxing contest, but like, watch his win over batter harry. He's just marching people down and throwing these heavy hooks in the pocket.

It's not really what he does now. He's much more subtler, but highly effective. And also, his ground and pound. Jesus Christ. Did you hear the audio on that thing, on that first right hand that landed? Yeah. It sounded like someone smashed him over the head with a tire iron. And it's crazy.

Every time he goes kind of on a bad streak, you can see how he re-events himself. When he had those losses When he was getting knocked out by Travis Brown And all that He came back and all of a sudden He was using a lot of distance And staying away Then he has a few losses

And now he comes back And now he's putting on the pressure He brought back the knees that made him great The knees to the stomach From the clinch There was a few against the cage that landed Pretty solid Yeah he looked good

Yeah All right These calls Apparently I have angered the female Listenership Yeah bro Can't believe that What's up with that

You know what It worked I trolled them into calls into calling. I take full responsibility and credit. Both. All right, what do we got here? We got tons of questions. Very good questions. These questions just keep getting better.

And also, the timing of the questions keeps dropping, which is amazing. So up first, as far as, you know, how long they take to get their question out there. I guess the length. So let's start with Golden Boy and, you know, let's look at the overall picture, the overall event. How you doing, Danny and Luke? This is Alex Cohen from Orlando, Florida. Luke, I just want to make sure your allergies are doing okay this week.

I hope they are. So we wanted to get your views on Golden Boy's production of the Ladell versus Ortiz. And then also wanted to see which fights or fighters stood out to you most between the prelims and the main part. Thanks, guys. Okay, production. I would say for the production Look, man, it's not going to be UFC level

And Bellator is owned by Viacom It's going to be a step down from that So I compare it to like Low-level regional shows I've been to And relative to that, it was pretty high So that's why I said I gave a grade of a C I thought the on-screen graphics were pretty good I thought that the in arena

atmosphere was pretty good Not great But passable to me maybe even at points good. The use of the limb biscuit thing, you know, it's just, I mean, what do you want me to say? Who's in the house? I know. God, I was like, wow, where are we? Oh, my God.

But I didn't think, I mean, look, you go on Twitter and everyone's like, oh, my God, worst thing ever. It's not the worst thing ever. However, it definitely had some shortcomings, but it had some positives too, I thought. I like the production. Look, you can't compare it to the UFC. The UFC's a machine that operates, and they have been doing this for years. they got a recipe down on how to, you know, have these events.

Also, they have money. Yeah, they have money as well. And I think more importantly than money, just experience. Like, the UFC has been doing this for years. This is Golden Boy's first event. So you got to cut them some slack. But overall, I thought it was a pretty solid event. I thought they could have done a few things that were easy to do

and it would have improved the event a lot more. Like not having the dismantling of the ring at the same time the press conference is going. the post-fight conference and just the way how to set up those media events I think they could have done a little bit better but as far as the product

on Fight Night I thought it was good and it had a boxing feel with like the 3D graphics in the arena when they zoom out with the camera that's a very boxing-esque the hexagon they brought right that's what that's six-sided yeah yeah overall

I thought it was a pretty complete product like you know by and large I graded it as C plus 78 C++ is fine, I think. They also asked, like, who impressed you most on the card from the prelims? Duran Wynn.

Yeah. Duran Wynn looked like, I mean, first of all, that's not even close to the right weight class for him. He's my height, okay? Is he really? Yeah, 5-7. Chiqui Tico. Fighting at 205. Okay.

Like I said, not even close to the right weight class. Tom Lawler had a bit of a layoff, but is a very experienced credentialed opponent. And even Tom Loller took his hat off to him. I think very highly of Duran Winn. That one caught my attention. I want to see more from him. I want to see more from him, maybe at middleweight or even. Walterweight. Maybe 205's a little too big, but he appears to be the genuine article.

I think he could be like the body type of, like, Hosemao Paharis or like Hector Lombard at middleweight. Those guys were about 58, 57, I think. And look, Cormier is small for a heavyweight, you know? And he's super successful. Exactly. If you got the speed and you got a lot of good athleticism, you can do some bangs. Yeah, but I do think 205 is probably not the right weight class. And he looks like he carries a little bit of body fat on. I think he could probably trim down to 185.

Yeah. All right. And I would agree. He was the most impressive. He looked awesome. Yeah, he looked great. All right, let's talk about, you know, Liddell Ortiz, but what that speaks about the commission,

which is a point that you brought up before the fight. Great question, by the way. Hello, this is Jesse Morgan from Ontario, Canada, and I'm a huge tech fan, and I was not thrilled with what I saw last night. My main question is the follow up on a comment he made. on your serious XM show, or it was the MMA hour, I forget which one. What do you think this says about commission oversight in MMA? Because to me, Chuck Liddell couldn't even throw a punch properly.

He couldn't stand up. He looked like he should not have been competing at any level. I felt Ken Shamrock could have beat him at 53 or 54, whatever age he is now. And I say that with no disrespect to Ken Shamrock or Chuck Ledell. like this was seam punk bad so what does this say about commission oversight and MMA when the best commission

let Chuck Lodal fight thank you very much I'm a big fan of the show a long time Chuck fans still okay Chuck forever Chuck is one of the great it is a weird question because

it's not a weird question it's a very important question no I said like weird in the sense of I'm sure there are tests that you can, you know, physical tests that you can pass. Like, I'm sure Chuck Liddell is a healthy, you know, human being and I'm sure he ate well and trained right. And, you know, he could pass those tests, right? But then I feel like those tests are still very limited into judging whether a fighter or not should be in the cage. Because, for example, any fighter that wants to start fighting, they, or at least in most states, they have to have a certain amount of amateur fights first.

So it's not just about being healthy. It's about knowing whether you can fight or not. That's why you're throwing in the amateurs. That's why they wear shimp pads and headgears and whatnot, right? So, I don't know. It is an interesting question. What do you make of it? I think that these commissions are up against a challenge

that they are not quite sure how to handle. I've made this point before, and no one really wants to... MMA media is funny. Because all of the money in clicks is like, so-and-so said something about X, said something about Y. or breaking a big fight, and that's all fine. Like, that's an important part of the game, and I get it.

But there's some bigger, broader questions to be asked here, which is, what is the proper role of commissions? I think you need commissions. You absolutely, at its core, you need them. I mean, you need a license to cut hair in this country. You absolutely need a license to be a promoter. And the fact that, you know, Dana White had to go on ESPN's get up and explain to them, well, look, we didn't, people,

okay, so I work at Sirius XM, right? And this is a major media organization too, but Series XM, most of the sports that they cover there is all football and basketball. Bro, I cannot tell you. I'm talking about ordinary people. These are not stupid people. These are smart, capable

sports media professionals. I cannot say how many of them came up to me and were sure, certain that the Connor stuff at the Barclay Center where the Dolly was all staged. And I tried to explain to them. It's like, I understand your position about why you might think that. But you need to know that if they ever got caught doing that, they'd lose their license.

Oh, it'd be a huge scandal. It would be a scandal beyond scandals. It would put them out of business. Dude, people got injured, you know? Yeah, of course. And by the way, even the, you see the guys at Boka Juniors who got the bus broken? You see some of their injuries, by the way? Yeah, yeah. Corneal abrasions. I was like corneal abrasions, the same ones that Ray Borg got. Exact same ones. I mean, it was like the same situation. Did you see a video of the bus passing by? Yeah, they were getting pelted. Dude, they were getting bricks thrown at the, at the windows. It's ridiculous. Okay, but here's my point. So you need. So you need. You need a commission to license these people.

You need a commission to prevent self-dealing. You need a commission to do some kind of modicum of tests to make sure that when X fights Y, that this is a reasonably fair matchup, right? You need those things. But on the same, by the same account, there are clear limits to its usefulness. For example, why are we still waiting for the Nevada Athletic Commission

what to do with what happened at UFC 230, whatever it was, 229. This is absurd. What are you guys? The FBI, you Robert Mueller, you need more time, you need to subpoena witnesses to figure out who did wrong here. It's super not difficult, and they drag this out, and they assert their authority, and it's a de-measuring contest, and it's absurd. That's one problem. Here's another problem. You've got this confederacy of commissions. Hear me out, Danny. I see you getting bored with the answer. you have this confederacy of commissions and you've now enshrined into the law rules. Well, how do you change your rules? It's super difficult.

Now the commissions don't talk to each other. We don't even know what the rules of MMA should be. We haven't even figured it out yet and we've already handed that power back to the states. As it pertains to this question, what is the right answer? Dude, here's the truth. I'm not even sure the commissions know. good commissions, hardworking commissions, honest commissions, smart commissions, of which the California State Athletic Commission is, by and large. I think they look at this problem and they're like, this donks 48, here's the test that we have. Are these good enough?

I guess, probably not. And what's the answer? I don't think anybody knows. I don't think anybody knows because no other sport asks 48, 49-year-old men to go fistfight. I think there needs to be educated people in MMA. They need to take a look at also the fight itself. Like I can't possibly see Chuck Liddell getting the green light to fight another, you know, another MMA fight in a different state, right? Or even in California. Like, you have to look beyond the physical aspects and ensure that they pass this test and sort of the science.

Just look at the fights, right? Chuck Ladell is a fighter. that should not be competing at this stage. And, you know, I think previous performances need to be kept in an account. By the way, what did you make my opening way in? It's like, oh, you should never tell. Well, you should rarely tell. You should be very careful about it.

But never? That seems insane to me. Yeah, that seems insane. Because once you put never, you know, you know certain guys may push it, right? Oh, I'll just keep fighting and, you know, you need to protect fighters from themselves. You know, that's why you have referees in there. That's why there's certain protocols. And that's one of them.

I think, you know, and I think, you know, I want to make this point as well. If the commissions are there to protect fighters, right? And they're still allowing them to compete. There needs to be put some blame or not blame, but some weight on promoters as well. Like, look, if Oscar Delhoya is saying he really cares about MMA, I mean, I understand for this specific fight, we didn't not know what was in store, although we had some signs and some ideas. of what it was going to look like. But moving forward, because I know some people

are still debating that Chuck is good to fight, I mean, if you really care about MMA, you can't possibly give them a contract. I don't think that's ethical. I get ready for this one. So everyone's like, oh, well, they went to California. Dude, California is good.

They're trying. I know Andy Foster is trying, which is all I can ask, on some level, I suppose. Wait for this one. What if Chuck decides to keep going and finds a promoter who's willing to put on whether it's Delahoea or somebody else in Texas or some point I mean what's stopping him

you think Texas is going to say no yeah please come on that that's why promoters need to and I think media has a role as well in in voicing this you know yeah a lot of these I know we kind of play around with this like oh I'd watch that we need to kind of start saying yeah maybe that's not a good idea and oh are you being a hater look at me look at me put the camera on me ready right now yes I am being a hater that's right okay next question. All right. Let's keep the Chuck Tito talk going. Come on. Mr. McThomas. This is Charles Jalen calling out of Atlanta, Georgia. My question's about the Chuck versus Tito 3. Do you feel that the peck for you would have done better

with more marquee names on it or was it doing regardless for the simple fact that you had Chuck and Tito as the main event? Would it have done better if you had, let's say, people along there or Michael Chandler name on there. Just let me know your thoughts about that. Thanks to take my car. So Chandler, obviously, with Belltor, so that's not going to go down. But let's pretend there was other bigger names out there. How about this one? How about Eddie Alvarez, right?

Let's say he did a one over before going to one or something. It definitely would have helped with the credibility. Yeah. Absolutely would have helped with the credibility. I've been like, you know what, Eddie Alvarez is legit as they come. He's on this card. That probably would have helped if you had Demetrius Johnson. I mean, if you had Demetrius Johnson on there, that would have been.

a major valetor. Would it have been a game changer in pay-per-view? Would it have helped. No doubt about it. Would it help. Hard to say would be a game changer, though. Yeah, I don't know. I think the fight to sell was that one, right?

Was Chuck Liddell's come back to M.MA and, you know, this big rivalry that's, you know, a decade long. And I think that was the bigger point. But I'd like to make a point that I kind of like that Golden Boy is doing this or did this because we don't know if they're going to have more events. Yeah. of just making it a one-fight card basically, like the main attraction. I just want to see... Yeah, I just want to see different stuff, you know, different things tried out in MMA. I think, you know, all the promoters, you know, try to just stack their cards as much as possible.

And, you know, why not have just, you know, the main card, the main fight just be it, basically, and make the pay-per-view cheaper. I mean, it gives the platform for someone like the wrong win who I had no idea who he was before. And now I know who he is because, you know, I saw him fight rather than have a recognizable. name, you know what I'm saying? I'll amend that slightly. I hear what you're saying. I don't need 50 fights. I need a main and a co-main.

Give me two fights. How about that? Two fights. But I'm okay with trying new stuff and just having, you know, just having being the fight. Because look, the wrong wind came out, you know, as for the hard course, for the people that tuned in, came out as a recognizable name now moving forward. I think so I would say, how about this? Give me a main and a co-main, drop the price a little bit in the pay-per-view,

and maybe we can work with this. That's not about fair to you? But I would say, yeah, that sounds fair. No amateur fights, though. You didn't like that? Keeps the card cheap. That's true. And also, the amateurs are the locals who bring in the people to buy the ticket.

Bro, that's how it works around here. Yeah. That's true. All right. This is probably final Ortiz Liddell question. Hey, Luke, it's Bryce Collin from Coast MMA. Just giving you a shout to Vancouver, BC. Just wanted to ask you, was the Chuck Ladell fight the most depressing moment in M of A?

Thanks a lot. Love your show. No. I would say no. No, it's not. I've seen some way worse ones. I mean, there's people that have died, you know, weight cutting and stuff. Obviously, like in smaller promotions. That itself.

That's not what they mean by depressing. By depressing, they mean a slow motion train wreck. They don't mean a true calamitous devastation. They don't mean something that just makes you sad. Not something that sort of like shocks the conscience. No, I've seen some other ones. Do you know this name? The hardcore, the super hardcore.

Do you know who Fire Harada is? Nope. What era is that? That's pre-your-era. There used to be this Japanese dude named Fire Harada, who he did MMA and kickboxing. He would be the guy who would show... You know how the Japanese are a little bit more forgiving of losses if you show a tremendous spirit? Yeah, yeah, of course.

He was sort of that guy. Except he would fight until he was basically like... It was like weakened to Bernies with that dude. So at the very end of Fire Harada getting picked up, they put him in, and the Japanese are just ruthless. They put him in there with some 20-year-old stud who would knock him the F out brutally. And everyone, he'd get up and like,

he would refuse to go down, he would just get viciously tore up. He's his old dude, man. It's like, dude, watching an old dude, like Fire Harada get worked over, I don't derive pleasure from this, man. Unless he said the N-word, and this is World Star, and someone is like raining down fists of justice upon him, I don't really have an appetite for watching old men get beaten up.

It's not my thing. Now that you mention it, Japanese MMA, a few examples have come up. I mean, Sakharov, towards the end, Sakharaba's career was just rough to watch, man, because this was a guy like Chuck Lidale, a legend, and he was just getting fed to the wolves, and he was just taking beatings. It was really bad. And they would put him, they would stitch him together with KT tape. he'd be like, Jesus, man.

And he would walk out there with his knees all taped up. Oh, my God. I'm laughing because it's just shocking. But, yeah, I mean, and also on like on the road. Or Gabby Garcia fighting, you know, 53-year-old woman or, you know, that's like 100 pounds lighter than her. Yeah. I mean, I've seen things that made me sad. I've seen guys who really wanted to make the UFC and couldn't.

I've seen them cry backstage. That always hurt me. I've seen, you know, guys who just were so many fighters through their, and everyone. everyone in their 20s is poor, you know, but, you know, just living in abject poverty, trying to make it and, and then cleaning floors with bleach at the gym so they could get free tuition to go. And then they never make it anywhere. And I've seen it, man, I've seen it. It breaks my heart. But for a legend, you know, Fire Harada was not a legend. Chuck Ladell was a legend. For him to be in this state, he deserves better. He deserves better. And I understand he's true. I understand he is programmed this way. Dude, he needs to be exalted where he ever he goes. I don't want to be having these conversations about Chuck Ladell. And that kind of hurts me too.

Yeah, it does. As I mentioned to you before the start of the show, most of my Twitter timeline, the reaction, all the tweets had sad in it. Chuck Ladell and sad should never be in the same sentence. That dude was truly one of the greats. He was like the first rock star, like the first guy that was in M.MA and crossed into pop culture like Connor McGregor.

Like everybody knew who Chuck Liddell was, you know? Even if you didn't watch any of his fights, he was in commercials, and he was everywhere. He would have cameos on shows. And just to see how high he was in M.A. And he was the man at one point and now watching this performance. Yeah, it was rough to watch. Can I say one more thing? Go to the next question.

Go for it. Yeah. We're not saying enough good things about Tito. Now, Tito blocked me on Twitter however long ago, which is fine. It doesn't bother me at all. It's good. You know, as I've said before, as a man who blocks a lot of people, Danny Sigura, I take no umbrage with being blocked

I encourage it as a matter of fact Yeah yeah Yeah you can't hate it if you're doing it got to love the practice Not everyone's meant for everybody else Yeah I believe that But here's the deal Tito keeps getting the last laugh on people Have you noticed this? Yeah he does

Dude everybody His longevity is amazing Dude everybody kind of clowns him online I've said it before you go to the arena You don't feel that at all He got a second act in Bellator Okay he couldn't beat Liam McGarry But he got a nice win over Chal Sondin

He got some nice win over Stefan Bonner He comes here gets a nice one over freaking Chuck Liddell. Dude, this guy's second act, third act, whatever act this is in MMA, it's better than almost anything I've seen from anybody else who's been in the game this long. Tito Ortiz will surprise, he is way more cunning than he gets credit. And he's still competitive. Against McGarry, he was doing well until he got caught in their reverse triangle.

Tito Ortiz is still a competitive fighter, which is crazy to believe. He doesn't get any credit for it. Tito deserves a lot of credit. I mean, just look at Chuck Ladell and Tito, like that fight itself. Like those guys are from the same era and it was night and day. All right. So enough about that. Let's move on to a few questions.

Other questions. All right. Let's do it. UFC, Bayesian. Bayesian. Hey, my name is Thomas calling from California. I was wondering what your thoughts are on Francis and Ghana. It was a fast fight and we've seen zero wrestling, zero takedown. It's never shot on him.

So what are your thoughts on that? So I understand what this caller is saying. Sure, we didn't see much as far as like where he's at, skill-wise, but I think we saw what was most important. Inganu is no longer gun-shy, or at least for that fight, which that's pretty significant because his fight with Derek Lewis was a completely different fighter. At least we saw who, like, the real Francis Ingano, right?

I don't know. He was out there swinging, man. Okay, for 25 seconds. Okay, but he was still, for the Derek Lewis fight, you could say, it was a different... 100%. 100% it was better than that. Well, I couldn't possibly argue otherwise. It was different attitude. 100%. So here's what I'm saying.

Are you saying, Luke, that he is still the person that he was in the Lewis fight? No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is, number one, definite improvement from that. But number two, I need to see him tired. How does he look again when he's tired? I need to see his wrestling.

How does he look when he wrestles? Number one, there should be an improvement generally, just from what he was, you know, from the last blades fight or whatever for the first one. And more to the point, if he's truly recovered from that little spell he had, then let's see it play it out under more duress.

I need to see all the different bases of duress addressed before I can really declare, oh my God, he's back, he's fully back. So to your point, did he look better? Were there some signs to say, okay, this is something? 100%. All of them? Not even close. I agree with you, but the question is leaving the Derek Lewis fight,

where does he have wrestling? Can he go all 15 minutes? The question was, why is he not swing? Why is he not engaging? Is he afraid of fighting? For me, with Curtis Blades fight, I saw a guy that wanted to fight. I saw a guy that wasn't scared of engaging.

And he was putting on the pressure, and he was swinging hard. Fatigue will change these equations, though. Yeah. So to your point, he had a much better attitude from the word go. And look, maybe you make him tired, and to your point, he's back, he's great,

it looks awesome. This would be amazing. I am okay with this. I'm simply saying, until you've seen it, given some of the duress we saw, the answer is not yes or no. It's, I don't know, let's wait and see. All right.

Now, let's get a follow-up question here for Mr. Engano. And I just wanted to ask, what do you think is next for Frances Engano? Junior Dos Santos, Alexander Volkov, Steve M. Eochich, Henz O'Gracy. What do you think? Thanks.

So definitely not Hensow Gracey. Shout out to Mouth Breathing Mike. He's back. He hasn't called in a while. Did he call from his baby monitor? Probably, yeah. Or from Mars? Where did he call from?

The bottom of the ocean? Yeah. More or less. From Connecticut. Yeah. Well, Connecticut, exactly. Yeah. So who's next?

Who do you think, Francis and Gano should fight? Man. Do you run back the Lewis fight? Definitely not. And Hunt's going to be gone. By the way, I like Lewis Overeen. That's a great fight.

I would have said Mark Hunt, but Mark Hunt's contract's about to be up this coming weekend, right? So that's out. Yeah. I'm not really sure. I mean, he's still in the elite space. Do you do a steep A rematch? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense either.

Trying to pull up the division right now. I'm not really sure what the answer is there. God, the Blades one was the one that made... It was good for the time, I suppose. I'm not really sure. I wouldn't mind Overeem versus Inganu again, by the way. If Arlovsky wins, you could maybe run that back this weekend? Taito Ivasa is out there.

Okay, that'd be fun. Right, Anganu versus Tui Vasa? Tivasa's fighting JDS, right? Yeah. Or if JDS wins, you can do JDS versus Inganu. Yeah. There's a couple of other options out there. The Volkov one is interesting too because Volkov is super, you know, rangy and tall,

and they're both really big dudes. And he's coming off a loss, obviously, against Derek Lewis. So maybe the matchup on that sense, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but stylistically, it could be fun. All right. All right. Now let's talk about Israt Asana and Anderson Silva. Your favorite fight.

Yes. See, they're listening to the sound off, man. We've got to keep this going. It's good for the promotion. Hey, Luke, hey, Danny. I'm Erica calling from Florida. See, chicks do listen to you guys on the regular. I'm a longtime fan of MMA. I even got my boyfriend into it eight years ago. He's a lifelong martial artist in France, so I knew he'd love it. Hi, babe. Anyway, here's my question. Even though Mark Remundi seems like a great guy and a quality journalist, how much abuse should we heap on him for suggesting the pointless and probably sat fight between Israel Adela Sanya and the legend, the elder statesman now, Anderson Silva. By the way, I warned Mark on Twitter that angry emojis are coming his way.

Thanks, guys. Wow, first of all, what a great question. Jesus, that was amazing. What a voicemail, number one. Number two, feel free to heap scorn on Mark Romundi just because. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say that. I mean, his pro wrestling tweets just make me want to jump out of a building.

But there's lots of reasons to heap score on him. But okay, hold on. You have defended this idea. The idea you have made it reality. You're like mystic Danny over there. How do you say mystic in a Spanish? Mystico. Mystico Segura.

Daniel Mercado. All right. Your thoughts. You're happy. You must be happy. You must be thrilled about this. This is a fantastic fight. I think, and this is here, I'm going to make a case here for Mr. Anderson Silva.

I think we are underestimating Anderson Silva. I think there is a false image of Anderson Silva out there, of what he currently is. Word. Let me put it to you this way. So after he lost his belt against Chris Whiteman, right? He goes on to fight Nick Diaz. Fantastic fighter. Obviously, he was bigger.

He was a bigger man because that fight was at 185. Nick Diaz going up. That fight sucked there, Jeremy. He still beat him. He still got a win over an elite fighter. Right? That's a fact. Okay.

Then he got turned to a no contest because of the test, but nonetheless it was won. I agree that beating Diaz is an elite fighter, but you know the trolls are going to say, well, Diaz hasn't won a fight and blah, what, five years or something? How much does it really mean? I'm just saying, I'm just saying. No scrub gets a win over Nick Diaz. That's a fact. I believe you.

Then he goes on and fights Michael Bisping and loses. Controversially. But, yeah, does anyone remember that fight? I mean, I would say. the one who took the more, the most punishment there was Bispying. He got knocked down. I mean, at one point... Yeah, at one point we thought the fight was over and there was controversy

there. Unders-Silva looked maybe not as he looked in his prime. Obviously, he would have, I think a prime Anderson Silva would have done, would have, wouldn't have even gotten touched and would have finished the fight in the first round. But nonetheless, he looked good. He looked competitive and almost beat Bisping, who from

then went on to become the middleweight champion. Okay? Okay. Then he goes on and fights Daniel Cornier, the champ champ. On super late notice. On super late notice. And goes to decision with a champ champ. How many fighters have been finished by Daniel Cormier, a lot.

And I have a feeling, probably Cormier will never admit to this, but I have a feeling Cormier didn't go 100% hard on Anderson Silva. But nonetheless, he went to a decision and, you know, had some good moments. Silva rocked him in the stomach. Remember that twice? Yeah, yeah. The only thing is Silva also stalled underneath with the lockdown. Yeah, that's also true.

But, you know, still managed to go to distance with the champ champ. And then fights Derek Brunson, who I've, you know, been very high of Derek Brunson. It's still a controversial fight. It could have gone either way. People were split on the scorecards. But just the fact that it was competitive and you can make a case for either or means it's still there. I think Anderson Silva, I think there's this image out there that Anderson Silva's washed up. But to me, he's a top, still a top 15 easy, maybe even top 10 middleweight.

Is that crazy to say? Yes. Why? I just, he just looked competitive. Even if his losses, he looked competitive against this. Because this exercise you're doing, I can take anybody's resume and I can say, okay, here's your task. Hold on. Let me finish.

I can take anyone's resume, particularly if they're getting at the end, so now they're flagging a little bit. Because you would agree, granted, he's not at his peak powers, right? You would agree with that. I can go through the resume and I can say, I want you to characterize this as charitable or I want you, other person, to characterize this in a negative way. I can play that game. I can go through all of those and I can give you a negative way.

Now who's right? In the end, it's an exercise. There's probably some middle ground there. I grant you, we're not talking about a Chuck LaDL situation. He's also been off for this PED issue again, contaminant supplement, whatever it was. He had the previous one. There's the belief that he was on that during his prime by some

and that now he is just not the same. And the issue is, yes, he got knocked out by Wyman or whatever, and then he had the terrible tragic incident with the shin. The issue is not that he's going to, and just getting the doors blown off. The issue is that he's just not doing a lot. His output has declined significantly. His accuracy has declined significantly.

People still revere him and fear him, so they don't really, to your point about, like, Cormier, for example, they just try to take him down and ride it out. But in terms of like the potency of what made him good, I don't know how you can't argue that has dropped off a cliff. Oh, I mean, he's any little, of course, compared to what he was, I mean, at one point, nobody could believe what Anderson Silva was doing. So the version that he currently is, of course, it's a huge drop.

But he was at such a high that I still feel like he's a top middleweight. I mean, look at the rankings. You're telling me, you know, number 15, Tiago Santos, you think Anderson Silva couldn't beat him? I think that's a competitive fight. Elias Diodoro, 14, I think that's a competitive fight. You're right a hall. I think all these guys beat him. Really?

Yeah. Man, see, I don't see it that way. I guess we'll find out. Wow, I didn't know you were the president of the Anderson Silva fan club. Yeah. Welcome Look, I still think Anderson Silva is a competitive guy

I still think he can hang in with the top 15s I still consider him a top 15 middleweight I guess we'll find out He hasn't been out for so long I think obviously all the PED stuff And the drug test failures have tainted his career And people probably see him on a worse light But I think people are discounting him

And thinking he's washed up And I really don't I think he's on a decline, sure But I still think he's a pretty decent fighter We're gonna see You have registered your belief. We will evaluate it and do time. All right.

So let's talk about Anderson Silva versus Israel-A-Sahia, but on a different angle. Okay. Hey, guys, this is Kelly from Long Island. With the talk of Silva and Adasania, my husband and I are hoping you can settle a debate. Who do you think the UFC would prefer to win? He thinks Silva. The goal would be back and it would propel him into a big money fight with Connor, GSP, or even a title shot. I think they want Adespaena to win.

At this point, in his career, Silva probably isn't the best litmus test for just how good Adasanya really is. But no doubt a victory over Silva would be a huge boost in visibility and legitimacy to the casual audience. It could be a star-making performance, especially as a local guy in Australia. Either way, it seems like a win-win for the UFC. And a loss to the goat or a loss to the next big thing seem like losses either guy could ride off. What do you think? Thanks. Bro. Bro, as president of the Anderson Silva fan club, the answer is,

I'm just kidding. No, of course, I think the easy one is Israel. He's the younger guy. First of all, Madam, you are a genius. Your husband is a moron. That's why she's calling. That's why she called. First of all, great question. Well delivered, well articulated. I have nothing to add to that other than divorce your husband.

He is clearly of an unsound mind. Right? She nailed it, I thought. Yeah, yeah. I mean, even if you think very highly of Anderson, you still would favor Israel, right? I would like to add, though, that if Anderson's silver wins, it wouldn't be the end of the world. No. It would be a setback.

It would be a setback. But, you know, I believe that Asana is 29, if I'm not mistaken. So he's not super young, but I think in MMA years, he's very young, right? And man, that would just put Anderson Silva. I feel like you'd be, remember when Tito Ortiz was like on a terrible losing streak, defeats Ryan Bader? And then all of a sudden, he took a short notice fight against Rashad, and Rashad was at the top.

And then all of a sudden, where you're like, yo, could Tito possibly get a title shot? you know there was those talks I feel like it'd be kind of kind of like that it would create some buzz around

probably yeah all right now let's talk about officiating sounds good hey there look and Danny

it's Damon it's Damon calling from Toronto Canada my question for you is this given how many

fights we've been seeing especially lately where they're quite lopsided and I'm thinking about the Elkins fight

in particular where there's so much damage being needed out and also given how

young of sport mixed martial arts is, they haven't really got a chance to see what a lot of the pioneers are going to be like when they're in their 60s and 70s in terms of brain trauma, CT, etc. Do you think eventually that the test that the rest and pros will be, you know, might switch away from intelligently defending oneself to a lesser standard, something like remaining competitive in the fight? Do you think that's where ultimately mixed martial arts will go in order to protect the safety of the fighters.

You guys have been a great job. You've really differentiated yourself well from the old format, so really enjoying it. Thanks so much. Bye-bye. Very nice question. Yeah. Very nicely stated. What do you think, Danny? You want to go first?

Yes. This is a really good question. I think we've always talked about how MMA is getting closer to boxing. Have you seen boxing stoppages? If you're an M.MA fan and you often, for example, a lot of M.A. fans were saying in the Mayweather-McGregor fight, that fight was stopped early.

You know what I'm saying? I think in MMA, we've been accustomed to seeing a lot of punishment before fights get stopped. In boxing, it's usually like, hey, you're not competitive even if you're standing and they'll call the fight off. Or after a certain amount of knockdowns. And I feel like eventually in the future, we're going to get closer to that. I think this, you need to be constantly intelligently defending yourself idea is going to stop at one point. And at one point, like the Priscilla Casuera v. Valle, Nes Soshenko, I think at one point,

refs are going to be like, look, this is going nowhere, fights off. What do you think? I hope you're right, but I don't know that you are. You deserve to be right. You're absolutely right. First of all, you're right about the boxing part. I mean, you're 100% right about that. Because what they'll do in boxing is if you're losing, let's say, seven rounds in, and it's getting worse,

and you're not showing any kind of, not even ability to hang, but like, what's the reason why this might change? Yeah. Like, if I can just keep, let's say you and I are boxing we're the same size, Danny, and you're totally keeping me at the end of your jab, and I can't get inside.

And the jabs are starting to get, now they're starting to get followed with crosses, and then jab cross hook, and then jab cross hook uppercut. I'm just getting torn up, and I can't find any answer. Even if you're still standing? Even if I'm still standing,

and I still want a fight, I'm not giving the referee any reason to think this is going to change. But then you get fights. You remember this guy, I think it was UFC Chile, where it was Claudio Pueges. Remember him?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I interviewed him after that. Right, the fight should have been stopped a number of times, but he hung on, I think you won by heel hook or something, or something like that. And folks were saying it.

I mean, remember what happened. The Raquel Pennington fight, she literally says, I'm done, and they talk her out of it. And she goes and gets demolished in that fifth round, whatever it was. And people had the audacity to defend that. It means the most shocking negligence I think I'd ever seen. Here's a reality. We are going to have to wait for something tragic to happen. Because I have made this argument before that we need to amend the way in which we allow

beatings to happen and folks have said no you're going to rob someone of the opportunity to get a win. Okay, so here's what you are doing by incorporating that belief. You are courting disaster. So we are going to have to wait for disaster to happen before anyone decides, gee, maybe when people say they're done or there's other aspects to this fight that don't need to be continuing, then we'll call off the dogs. But it turns out that we have an appetite for disaster. So is this what it's going to be? And I feel like the factor that in MMA, I think there's a higher chance of a comeback in MMA

than it is in boxing, just that of the nature of that you can do submissions and there's so many other things in play, plus the smaller gloves. I think that plays in the referees call like, oh, you never know, this person might come back. He still wants to be in the fight. I think that plays in why we see MMA fights go longer,

but I think it shouldn't. I think, you know, at the end of day, do we want to watch these guys compete? the answer is yes, right? That's why we all tune in. If so, fights need to be stopped earlier because, sure, Claudio Pueges had an amazing career win

and he'll remember that for the rest of his life. But the beating that he took, man, who knows what that'll be like or what effects it'll have, you know, 30 years from now. Yeah. The other thing is, you know, I think a lot of these boxers, the good ones who might be winning and losing,

they see themselves as, how long can I do this to make cash? And what do I need to do to be able to keep making cash? MMA fighters are like, what do I need to do to preserve my honor? What do I need to do to make sure that, you know, forget the money, although that can play a role as well to protect my, the sanctity of this experience.

And I think it's going to take a bit of a shift, and I think it's going to take tragedy to get us there. All right, we have time for one more. Do we have one more? Cool. Yeah. The zone or... Never mind.

I'll just go with the alternative. Well, you really set that one up nicely, David. Yeah. I mean, then I'd give away the question. All right, all right. The zone... Hey, Luke, Danny. This is from Indianapolis, Indiana.

And I have a question for you guys. So, looks like UFC is going to be closing out 2018 pretty strongly, and I'm pretty excited about it. But UFC 231 has Max Holloway and Brian Ortega. Max Holloway has had issues trying to make it to fight night recently. Valentina Shofchenko and Yana, Valentina has just had really bad luck getting to this women's flyway belt. John Jones versus Gustafson, John Jones, if you ask him, probably would say that he has lots of bad luck. but also Chris Seiborg and Amanda Nunes. Both of them have had concerns making it to fight night.

So my question to you guys is I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but do you both think that all four of these fights actually happen this year? Thanks. Yes. What kind of a question is that? So I would like to defend there, Chris Seiber. Chris Seiberg has only had issues really at 140, at 140, when there are forcing her to drop that low, right?

So that's when we were like, oh, snap. She had the USADA issue, but that was rectified and hasn't revealed itself since. Exactly. So I don't think that's a worry. Mandan Union is fighting a weight class above. I would assume it's a much healthier training camp just because she doesn't have to deal with the weight cut. And she also specifically asked for the December date, because remember, Cyberg wanted a fight earlier. So I think that fight, it's good to go.

John Jones, Gustafson, I think it's good to go. I think almost every fight is good to go. The only one that I'm a little concerned about, just because, like, we still. don't have an answer to what happened with Max Holloway? Yeah, that's the only one that, because we still don't know what happened. The tests, like, right,

they never revealed anything, but we knew something was clearly wrong. I don't know why. I can't give you a good reason. I completely understand your skepticism. For some reason, I'm not really worried about it. I don't know why that is.

I just have a feeling it's going to be fine, but maybe that's irrational. I don't know. I have a feeling it's going to be fine, too, and knock on wood. But that's the only fight out of those that he mentioned, that it feel like, you know,

I have some rest of, Intervations. Interesting. Yeah. All right, man. We're going to talk to zone or are you ready? No, I need to go. I need to go.

What's the DeZone question? Just real quickly. All right. All right. All right. F it. Roll fast. Real fast.

All right. It's a short. Hey, Luke and Danny. This is Gavin from Springfield, Virginia, by way of Donigal, Ireland, originally. Real quick. I just want to get a take on why you think that the zone is a good move for Bellator, purely from an MMA perspective. With UFC going to ESPN, I can move to a lower tier in cable, see if me 20,

Two bucks a month. Pay $69 for the EFPN Plus, and I get a bunch more fights for a bunch less money. Why I have to chase DeZO-1? If I don't care about the boxing, why is it a good deal? Thanks, guys. Have a great day. Love us go. The reason why the DeZone one makes sense is DeZone is certainly, first of all, DeZone is run by the guy who used to run ESPN.

They have incredible ambition. Did you see this deal they signed with MLB? No. Do you know anything about American football? Very little. That's a very condescending question. I didn't mean it that way. What I meant is, do you know what NFL Red Zone is? No, explain. Or maybe I do. I just don't know. It's an amazing channel. You would love it, Danny. So here's how it works. The Red Zone is the last 20 yards before the touchdown area, right? That's when you're beginning to get in what's called scoring position. On football day, Sunday, basically, there's one channel called NFL Red Zone. And all they do is monitor any game for any time someone's either in the red zone or about to score. It's awesome.

You get all the best stuff that happens there. Whether they don't score, whether they do, they're right on that line. But they let you know something may happen. Right, and they just go game to game to game to game. It happens all day long. It's tremendous, okay? It's one of the coolest things that they do.

They're going to do something like that on baseball night, seven days a week when the season is on, on DeZone. So they're not going to show you games, but you can fire up DeZone and get their version of that where they're showing you highlights or if, like, you know, there's a no hitter in place. and they'll take you to it. They're just going to be doing that kind of thing

on the baseball side, which is a ridiculous thing to even try. Six, seven-hour broadcasts. They're going to be doing every single day. Amazing. Now they've got the combat sports and other stuff. Imagine if they did that for me. I know, right?

DeZone is making a pitch, and they're putting a ton of money into stuff. Like, what's the value of Beltor going to DeZone? They've got a lot of extra money. They've got hungry partners. They can go in big signings. They can move away from pay-per-view, which is something that UFC

still stuck in. It's a great differentiation. Dude, I've clowned their name over and over again. I get it. But I really like their product. I like their energy. I like what they're doing. I am a customer of DeZone. I pay for it. I have high hopes for them. I really do.

Yeah. I do too. And you forgot to cross your arms as you said, the zone. But I would like that, I know this color doesn't like the boxing aspect, but please, I encourage you. I mean, Canelo's on there. Anthony Joshua. I mean, the zone is turning out to be a very complete package. And I think that's great.

And I think maybe if you're not into boxing, okay, fine. But the fact that you're attached to Canelo, the fact that you're attached to Anthony Joshua, there's prestige in that, man, because those guys are the elite. Those are guys at the very top, you know what I'm saying? So I think it just legitimizes the product of Bellator, right? Because, like, look, here, we're on the zone. We're just like, you know, all these other parties. It really is.

And the amount of money that they're just. they've given Bellator a year every year now to go do and be big things. It can't be understated. I love Bellator being on DeZone. They're not a good fit on Paramount. I know Scott Coker's like, hey, we got to split both. I get it. He's got to play the game.

I understand. I'm not hating. But I really believe that they're such a good fit for that. And they're going to go do that Bellator show in Hawaii, and it's going to air in the right time slot for them in those local markets. It's just so good. I have very good things to say about this. Plus, it's a streaming service, which it seems.

these days everything is heading to stream in. And the zone, the platform itself is really good, and that's something that Belator doesn't have to take care of, right? Like the UFC has to take care of UFC fight pass. Beltor just has to worry about putting on fights and the zone does the rest. You know what I'm saying? That's it. That's it. I love it.

All right, well, you know what? We'll try to get Frank back on the show at some point. We appreciate Israel coming on. We appreciate Alistair coming on. We appreciate Mr. Levato coming on. Danny, I appreciate you coming on. And I appreciate all your calls and all your tweets. The MMA hour is the hashtag 844-866-2468.

That's your number. And until next time, stay frosty.