MMA Fighting - #465 – Henry Cejudo, Gordon Ryan, Gregor Gillespie

Episode Date: January 14, 2019

Luke Thomas speaks to Henry Cejudo about his upcoming flyweight title defense against UFC bantamweight champion TJ Dillashaw at UFC Brooklyn, the future of the flyweight division, Dillashaw's weight cut, more (1:50:50); Gordon Ryan about his combat jiu-jitsu match against Fabricio Werdum and also officially announces that he's going to start a career in MMA (1:07:34); Gregor Gillespie about his fight with Yancy Medeiros at UFC Brooklyn, fishing, more (45:18). Additionally, Luke previews and breaks down Cejudo vs. Dillashaw on the Monday Morning Analyst (2:31) and we take your questions on the latest in MMA on A Round of Tweets (36:53) and Sound Off (1:42:37). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. It's the Mixed Martial Arts Hour. It is Monday, January 14th, 2019, and Caesar is home. Welcome, everyone. My name is Luke Thomas, Jesus. And this is the MMA hour right here on MMAFiting.com. Thank you so much for joining me. I greatly appreciate it.

Fun show plan for you guys today, a trio of guests. We're going to have, let's see, the champ's going to be here at 150, Like Jadicus and Will Smith, he'll be talking about, of course, Henry Sehudo, his upcoming fight with T.J. Dillashaw, that'll be at the end of the show, about 150 or so. At about 110 or so, Gregor Gillespie is going to be here. He's on that main card for ESPN Plus this weekend, taking on Yancey Madero. Not a lot of talk about that. That is a fight to keep your eye on.

We'll talk to him about it then. And I can't wait for this, y'all. The king is going to be here. Gordon Ryan, probably the best Nogi grappler on Earth. And boy, when he's a guy. comes to beefs, bratt sprays the block. Everybody gets it. He's going to be taking on, let's see, Fabricio Verdumin in a one-man four-night tournament February 22nd on Fight Pass. Josh Barnett's in that tournament, and it's not just Jiu-Jitsu, it's combat jujitsu. You can

slap people up. So that should be kind of interesting. He's going to be here. Very much looking forward to that. That should be a lot of fun. Plus, of course, as always, your calls at 866-844-2468. I'm told that we have an avalanche. of them today and then your tweets at or using the hashtag excuse me the mMA hour really appreciate it i'm told i was speaking to danny earlier today he was telling me that in the last few weeks the calls and the tweets have been overwhelming um this week the one previously the one previous to that so apparently whatever we're doing it's turning a corner a little bit keep those calls coming man some of the ones you guys ask are pertinent to that week and some of the ones you guys ask are bigger evergreen questions

If you send a bigger evergreen question, for example, like the one about what's the moral case for using steroids and spores, such as there is one, we can keep those. We can recycle those on off weeks or if we just feel like it deserves to be scattered about. So keep sending them. If you don't hear it this week, you might just hear it the next. Okay? Really appreciate those submissions as well. All right, let's get into it without further ado. Let's kick things off here on the show with per usual, the Monday morning analyst.

I hope you're doing well. Welcome, it's the Monday morning analyst. I hear all kinds of complaints. Not about the segment. People seem to like the segment, but it's obviously much more visually oriented than sound oriented. But this one today, it is going to be visually oriented, but I've got a lot more. If you're listening on the podcast, you can just get more out of it. So I promise. All right. So what is this weekend? It's finally here. T.J. Dillashaw is dropping down to 125. He's going to be taking on our guest, Henry Sohudo, at 100. 125 pounds. It's a super fight. It's the first fight that'll be on ESPN, or first main event, excuse me, that'll be on ESPN Plus. And interestingly, as I speak to you today, there's not a ton of

buzz about it. So for the Monday morning analyst, I was trying to figure out how these two would match up. And to be clear, there's a lot of reasons why we just won't know how they match up. I'll get to that a little bit later as well. But here's what I wanted to focus on. What do we understand about the modern T.J. Dillashaw? What do we understand about the modern Henry Suhudo? What do we understand about their rematches? And what do we understand about how that will impact this fight? Consider, both of their last fights are rematches that they had against their heated rival. Now, in the case of T.J. Dillashaw, he won both of them, and the second one much more quickly. In the case of Henry Suhudo, he had lost the first one,

very quickly, but then won the longer version of it. But still, there's a lot to learn. What did they take from those two fights? What do we know about them statistically? And then what can we infer from all of that that gives us a sense of what it might mean as TJ goes down a wait class and then they clash, right? So that's sort of what I did today. Now, I asked my boy, MJC, flipped the script for some numbers.

He failed me spectacularly. So shouts to him for not helping me out. But that's no bother because we don't need him today. Well, he always gives good information, but here's what I mean. We don't have to dig super far into the stats. If you look at the numbers for T.J. Dillashaw, and you look at the numbers for Henry Suhudo, one thing stands out to you. And I'll explain this again a little bit later.

Statistically speaking, T.J. Dillashaw is a marvel. Statistically speaking, Henry Sehudo is very good, but nothing particularly, particularly stands out. As I mentioned, there's a very good explanation for that, but let's start with T.J. Dillashaw, here if we can. T.J. Dillashaw is good at everything, and you know that because he's a stat leader. I don't know exactly, I think he has like one or two mentions in the top 10 for the various different ways in which we measure fighting excellence. But at 135, he's got basically the entire game unlock. Here's what he has. Among all-time bantamweight experiences, T.J. Dillis shot a second all-time in terms of fight time in the cage. He is first in knockdowns

landed. He is first in significant strikes landed. This is S.L.PM. He is first in strikes landed per minute. He is second in terms of strike differential. If you add up all the strikes, he lands on opponents, and then you add up all the strikes, his opponents land on him, who has the highest differential all time, he's number two at Bansomweight. He is 10th in significant strike defense. So he gets hit a little bit more, but still, he's ranked among the top 10 Bansomweights all time in terms of that. He is first in total strikes landed, right? We're not even talking about the grappling side. So let's talk about it. In terms of grappling, he is fourth all time at Bantamweight in terms of takedowns landed. He is second all time in terms of the

submission attempts, which I didn't even realize. That's less so, that's less true more recently. But if you look at some of his early fights, the Vaughn Lee fight, for example, and he is third all-time in take-down defense rate at Bandsenweight. Yo, that's a complete fighter, literally, by any measurement. I mean, that is total excellence. Is he number one in every department? Well, no, I'm not sure which fighter in their weight class would bleed. Not even the great George St. Pierre holds number one in every distinction. among welterweights, but that is extremely impressive. In every kind of statistical scenario,

he's at least either the top of the pack, near the top of the pack, or certainly among the divisional leader, or the leaders in that particular case. It's amazing. You don't see a lot of athletes and a lot of fighters. You'll see they might have certain strengths. You'll see they might have certain predilections.

They might have certain area of statistical ascendancy. He's got near complete statistical ascendancy. But there's a really good reason for that, right? And there's a reason that Suhudo doesn't. In my judgment, one of the reasons why you have seen these kinds of numbers from T.J. Dilleshaw is that he has a longer tenure in the UFC, and he has had time to complete his game. I don't think anybody would look at his last fight against Cody Garbrandt and say to themselves, oh, that's the same guy who fought Mike Easton. They're not.

I mean, they're similar versions, but he is much more into his matured skill set. And in that matured space has been able to accrue a lot of championship work, whether he was interim champ, when he was fighting Henna Barrow, the Dominic Cruze fight didn't go his way, but of course he was very competitive in that. Some think he won. And then he's had this title reign beyond that.

So you get the idea here. He's had time to accrue statistics at a mature skill set level. John Jones, I think, you could say, whether you like him or dislike him, he's at a matured skill set level. He will continue to get better, but probably not substantially so, right? Because you just sort of reached this point in your early 30s where most of the elements of your game have been ironed out. You can add tools, but there's a finite amount. But between, you know, the first four years of your state, of your growth, compared to the next four, there's exponential maturation.

He is in that maturation stage, and that's why you see these. Plus, he's obviously an excellent fighter, right? He's so well-rounded. He can wrestle. He can grapple the difference between the two. He's got the in-between spaces. He can strike on the outside. He can box on the inside.

He can do everything, and he's got a lot of cardio in the event that he needs it. So that's one, or I should say a bunch of reasons for the accounting of this number. Now, this is not so much a breakdown of his skills, more it is a recitation. of his achievements. So here's what I want to do next. Let's take a look at the one big rematch in his career. Not a lot to take from this one when you watch it. BJJ Scout has, shouts to BJJ Scout.

He has the best breakdown of this fight. The first one, I don't know if he did one in the second one, but he has the best one in the first one, which was if you notice what Cody Garbrandt does, you have T.J. Dillishaw switching stances all the time, but he was predictably, I should say, he was more commonly in a bit of a Southpaw stance or at least wanted to find entries off the Southpaw stance.

And what you would see Cody Garbrandt do is every time T.J. Dillashaw wanted to get the major outside lead foot angle, Garbrandt would widen his stance to take it away, so he couldn't get it. And it would force Dillashaw to reset. He would have to find all these creative entries to get back where he wanted to be. A lot of that happens in the second fight as well.

Well, here's the first one. This is where he gets knocked down. There's not a whole lot you can infer from this, but there's a couple of things I want to pay attention to. So as you can see here, he's walking in. Garbrandt's got this sort of nice wide stance. He sets himself up for the kick. He parries it, Garbrandt does.

Now watch Dilashaw. He stays in this orthodox stance and then does a lot of fainting, as you know. What Garbrandt was doing this whole time was waiting, not biting on all the fakes and the faints, just waiting for him to come in and then catch him with flurries, typically off the initiation of the right hand. That's how this goes.

So against the fence here, he doesn't have a lot of opportunity for lateral moving. He kind of bites down the mouthpiece and swings. But you'll notice what he does is he knows T.J. Dillishaw is faking here, right? There's the faint, and he knows he's going to be in position. Garbrandt reads it and then fires the right hand inside, and then gets his head off the center line right there, and then T.J. Dillishaw drops. He was going to whip. Look at his left hook, man.

Look at that left hook. That left hook. That joker. Boy, if that thing would have landed, that would have taken his head off. All right? Garbrandt's got dumb power. Boom. All right. So then he falls. So what is the inferred lesson from this? If you'll notice, I don't think it's necessarily the orthodox stance. For me, it's that Garbrandt knows that the fake in the faint don't mean anything, sort of swing at the sort of center, not center of mass, but where you know the head's going to be because it's going to pop back up. And he gets off the center line here as well.

It's just better punching mechanics. He does come wider, but it's just good to get off in the way that he does. And he gets underneath the jab. That's sort of the way in which he finds success here and then gets out of the way of the right hand. You'll find any time you can see Garbrandt in this kind of position where he has passed the right hand of TJ, that's better for him because it's the right hand that typically causes him problems. So for me, it's just a great read by Cody Garbrandt, understanding that's a bite and the fake and the faint. When the jab comes, time it, get your head off the center line,

pop them with your right, initiate with the right, and then he pops them and drops them. So that's to me just a real basic overview of what's happening here. And then he follows through. So now we go, and then that's it, right? So then we go to the second fight. Here we are, second round of the second fight. T.J. Dilleshaw, no, excuse me.

This is the second round of the first fight, because he's still the champion. What am I saying? Wait, yes, second round of the first fight. There wasn't a second round in the second fight. So what you're going to see T.J. Dillow shall do is try to not walk into a left-handed stance where he has the angle, but to almost hop into it. So watch this.

Here he is. T.J. Dillow does this a lot. He kind of leans and throws this up here. And sometimes he'll come with the left. It has so many different setups. He'll switch stances. He'll fade in and out. He'll weave.

He'll do all kinds of stuff, but it's a thing he likes to do. He likes to lean over like this a little bit. So what he's going to do is he's going to try and go this way. See this Air Asia logo? He's going to try and set the angle that way. You're going to watch this here. All right, he fakes and faints, Garband bites back. Here he is.

He's going to stutter step this way. So now he's got the outside lead foot angle, right? So he's going to try and win this combination. Why does he win it? They both miss here. both swing with the right. He's got his defense up. He does not. That's sort of one indication of the problem here. They trade again and actually T.J. gets hit. I actually wonder if the shoulder being inside the jaw kind of saves him here a little bit. I don't know that,

but I sort of wonder. But here's why he ultimately gets clipped. Boom. And he just drops them like that. Why? What happens here? To me, I watched this probably a thousand times and I looked at how, first of all, Garbrandt steps into him, so he gets a little too close, right? But to me, the answer is, look at how tight the punching mechanics are, T.J. He comes from the hip, so it's not like he was here, but at the same time, it's just a much shorter windup,

because if you notice real slowly, look how that arm by Garbrandt is coming around. He was trying to throw the exact same punch. So he kind of steps into him and then has these super wide hooks, which is just not as mechanically efficient as what T.J. Dillishaw. does. I think also anytime Cody Garbrandt was having these extended stays in the pocket,

he was having trouble. If he could push through in the pocket, he could have multiple strikes. If he wants to launch a one, two in the pocket, or whatever, a three, two, or any of those, like a two-punch combination, he didn't have much of a problem. But anytime you get past that and you're kind of static in space, his hand speed and his efficient mechanics just gave him the advantage to get to that spot quicker. It's not a, I mean, there might be a bit. I mean, there might be more complication factors than that. Someone who's obviously a good striking coach could probably point out some things I'm missing. But that seems to be the gist of it. It's not a whole lot to to it. But there are some lessons to infer from this one. Notice that Dillishaw, when he came in

the first time, he sets the angle and then blocks upside here and then doesn't come with the jab. He comes with the power shot over here. And look how far away he is from the punch. I would argue that this punch, T.J.'s, is closer to Cody's than Cody's as to TJ's, which is sort of the lesson here. He gets jammed in space there with a nice shot, but it doesn't matter because as they pop up, look what happens as they pop up. They're going to go down, and then as they pop up, boom. It's just a mechanically efficient shot, and he puts them down here. So there's some lessons to infer from this one. Again, these extended stays in the pocket, not leading with your jab as Cody had such and especially from that orthodox position as Cody had such a good read on it and such

great timing and reaction to it also remember just as a rule of thumb here I'm going to mention this every time here we are where is the danger zone you're looking at it all the action happens in here for the most part right just keep that in mind all right so he drops them now what can we infer from this right here's the second fight. Actually, TJ got hit with a shot and Cody follows up. Now here we are. Cody throws, without really setting his feet, throws one, just kind of grazes. So there he is. He sort of goes from a, well, sort of a squared stance to orthodox. T.J. lands too far past the head. Kind of lands hereish as opposed to here or here. Right? Garbrandt, point. plants and then tries to throw.

And then TJ, look at TJ's mechanics. He gets off the center line while he throws his right over the top, catches Garbrandt. And then this is the death blow here. Bink. Now watch. What do you notice from this? Garbrandt comes in, hops in, throws.

Let's go back one more. All right. So Garbrand comes in, gets off balanced here. TJ's off. TJ gets off the center line, so the punch misses. And it lands with some authority, but not quite enough. Garbrandt stays kind of where he is, bounces back almost, and then throws. But watch TJ's feet.

So Garbrandt moves a little bit, but watch TJ's feet on the last one. Right? Right here. Watch. Watch. Watch TJ's feet. He knows that the first one went too far. Second one lands, but not enough authority.

He blocks, steps back in the pocket. assesses, head off the center line, boom, everything. So he just knew if you could draw Cody into these extended combinations, that's a problem for him. He stays a little bit more static. You've already got the much more a mechanically efficient punch. It's the exact same right hand that dropped him the first time. And look, Cody misses with his own right.

It's the exact same sequence again. Only this time, T.J. took what he learned from the first fight, adjusted slightly in the pocket in real time, which enabled him to get off the center line for Cody's, punch to come past and for him to land his own right hand. And that sends him crashing to the mat. It's kind of genius, right? It's the same thing. If you actually watch the first fight between these two, Cody had a really good game plan. It was smart. It's hard to get that guy to bite on fakes and faints. He was, I think, landing on T.J. Remember, he dropped him in the first round.

We showed it to you. He had a good game plan. It's just that T. T.J. had a better ability to take advantage of the narrow window of Cody's mistakes. But Cody had a good game. good game plan in the first and the second fight. He heard him in both fights. It's just he had this Achilles heel where he just digs his heels in, throws against a guy who's got quicker hand speed, more mechanically efficient punches, and can make adjustments with his feet in the pocket. Now, that brings us to, you can put the thumbnail up. It brings us to Henry Sohudo, yes? All right, so leave it up for just a second. So what happened in the first fight with DJ? I actually did a Monday morning analyst on it. Demetrius Johnson said it was

good himself. You can look that up. That's a true fact. But the point being is this, neither here nor there, nothing self-flattery, notwithstanding. It was the controlling and the clinch. It wasn't a whole lot more that happened in the first one. It really took a bite out of him. There was a couple of things that DJ did that were really kind of smart. Here's one thing that DJ was so good at in that first fight. When they were wrestling with underhooks and overhooks in the clinch, what DJ would do is he would take a high underhook, he would jack it up, it would force them to lean to one side. And a lot of times if you think that, you might think a guy does a high underhook and then a collar tie and then to whip into that side, in fact, DJ would do the opposite.

He would jack a high underhook. He'd have an overhook on this side. He would turn the guy to step. And as he raised this up, he would fire the knee right under the ribs. He had a really good ability to dig a high underhook. and then the knee wouldn't come around and it didn't come up. It kind of came up as like a knife,

like a prison shank, man, right inside the rib cage is how it got him. Nice shots, right? So that was kind of interesting and that was ultimately what forced him to cover up and then dig in and then DJ hit one right up the center

and then it was over. And then from there you can go back and look. DJ's throwing a punch to one side and then a rib roaster to the other and then one up the middle. He was having Suhudo pick his poison. Sohudo would cut him. cover up here and then get drilled here. He would cover up here and then get drilled up here.

There was nowhere to hide. Yo, he shut all that down. Who won the clinch battle in the second fight? Henry Suhudo did. Not even, not even debatable who won that one. In part because he shut it down. But let's watch the first one here very quickly. Watch. Sohudo's in a Southpaw stance. Here comes DJ. He gets out of the way. Actually, it kind of pops them. Yep. It's hard to tell because Henry's hair is like a helmet. And they clinch up. All right. So here they are. They're clinched, yeah? Let's see what happens. Now watch, remember that high underhook I was showing you? He's probably going to go to that side of the ribs, right? So watch, here they're wrestling, and he's coming down. So he has the underhook on this side here, so it's a 50-50. I have the

underhook and I have the overhook, yeah? And he's pressing against the hips to create some space. Henry is. So let's watch this. So you can see where is Suhudo, or excuse me, where is Johnson sagging his weight? He's sagging his weight off to the right-hand side. And you see Henry try and throw a shot, but think about it. If you're trying to throw a shot where someone is sagging the weight, they're a little bit lower, but they might be pulling your posture down. You can't quite, like a real good knee, you almost want to lean a little bit, right? Not required necessarily, but to the body, you're almost stabbing it as opposed to coming up. So there's not much there. And they're turning, they're turning. And you see this,

watch this. So he goes to let the, this is a nice little job by Henry Sehudo. He takes the underhook, and then he goes down and then Sehudo gets his wrist control. So Suhudo actually feeds it across to the other hand. See that? Now the right hand comes over. See that? And then strips the grip. But he loses a lot of the inside space. Do you guys see that stripping of the grip?

Right here. Watch that. See this? That is the right hand of Henry Sehudo. And he's coming over to strip out the grip by holding it right there. That lets the grip off, yeah? So he's trying to keep that inside space. Remember, inside space is everything. You can control here on somebody. That's why double underhooks. It's just a nightmare scenario for somebody who knows how to use it. I almost poke my own eye out. I'm a stupid man. All right. Also, notice the sort of hip angle here. He's facing this way. Johnson's facing this way, and he's got the high underhook on the side where he's facing. So not a great scenario,

right? And if you haven't seen my old MMA analyst on this, you can understand why. So there they are. They're trying to trade. Boom, he misses. And you can see he tries to, as he tries to regain balance, DJ tries to trip him, but he's not far enough around him. So he just has to swing back into position. Here we are. Still have the overhook side facing us. He uses that shoulder. Watch this. He bops him with the shoulder. The overhook comes off, and now DJ turns it into a high underhook, right? Watch this. Turns him, turns him, turns him.

It goes back to the overhook. Leans out. Watch this. Pow, son. Right on the liver. That is so nice from Demetrius Johnson. Look at this. Leans him over.

Resets his feet. Brings the right foot inside. Oh, bro, that is painful. You can immediately see him flex down to hold that in place because he didn't want none of that. Who would? Right, here they are. They're going back. They're going back.

Still has the high side underhook as he's turning them. Goes straight. And then he lets go. And then he tries to pop them once here and gets a little too close. All right. So this is still the first fight. Just wanted to show you how he was hitting him on the ribs there, yeah? Throws the right hand and they miss and then they clinch.

All right, here we are back to square one. High side underhook. Where do you think that knee is coming? Right? Boom. Same side. Look at that, bro. It is tearing him up.

And then he's sagging his. wait to the other side. And so this way, head is on the same side as the overhook. That makes no elbow possible, right, even though you have the underhook. A lot of guys, like a lot of you're really good fighters in M.MA, like your Habib Nubra Gmadoves, your Demetrius Johnson's, they'll keep an underhook and they're, like, next time you watch an exchange with somebody and it's 50-50, so they have one underhook and they have one overhook, watch who dominates. Because ostensibly, that's a neutral position where you have as many advantages. as I do, but I have noticed that the very best fighters will take that neutrality, that perceived

neutrality, and they'll set you on fire with it, man. The Demetrius Johnson does it. Go back and watch Habib Nirogamedov. You think you have an underhook. He will pin that to your body and then take you in that direction because he's using it as a blocking mechanism. He's amazing at it. So it's not 50-50 at all. You've got to get double unders on those guys or some kind of a different strategy. So here they are. They're all locked up. He's going to push him to the fence. Now watch. Look, he's already covering that side because it's killing him, yeah?

He's going to drive into the fence here and he gets his back off of it for the most part, turns, turns, turns. And then, look at this. As he tries to force his hips, he wants to force his hips square to push him back into the fence. As he does, DJ brings him into that very same side

and then cracks him with the knee, just like that. And then all hell broke loose. Thumbail, please. All right? So what did you see there? Just dig into the body, dig into the body, controlling, turning, turning, whatever way you're going, you're blocking, he's digging. Then you're coming this side and he's bringing it up high. He was so accurate with his knees in the clinch, so flexible, right? He could do so much with it in that regard. Amazing to watch. But the rematch would not be like this. So here's one instance. You can put it back up. He learned from all of this Henry Sohudo did. There we are. So watch this. Henry tries to kick him. Sohudo grabs it.

Excuse me. Sohudo throws a kick. DJ grabs it, right? What are we doing here? There we are. All right? Pushes him back into the fence. There's a lot of ways to get your leg out.

I don't know exactly what's happening here. So if a wrestling coach does, my hunch is that what's happening here is you see that they are tied up here with their hand control. So it's got nothing to do with that. What I think happens is Sehudo, point. on the elbow of DJ and then drives his foot to the mat. I think he wanted to drive DJ into the fence because it actually enables you to stomp harder

if I can push down and out, right? Think about it. How am I going to get my leg to the ground if someone's picking it up? It's actually a little bit harder than you think. But if I can lean my weight forward, if I can push you back and I can pull up on your hand or your elbow, I can just loosen the mechanisms

that are keeping it in place and I can stomp my foot to the ground, which is what he, look here, I can't quite see it though, right? See that? See Sehudo kind of turning and pulling it up and then driving his foot to the ground, yeah? Right there. I think that's what happens. So number one, it's a nice job by Sehudo to get his foot to the ground there in a situation.

He had him dead to rights. Now look at this space. First of all, look what he's doing. He's got a high side overhook here, as opposed to a high side underhook like Demetrius had. He's got an high side overhook, which could still be problems. but look at that right hip. It's inside, like they're dance partners. Like they're doing the, you know,

they're up there doing the salsa and like Cali Columbia style, right? He's super in on him, so there's no real space to generate momentum or get those knees where he wants to go. And on the inside space, look at that elbow. The elbow is not here. The elbow is here.

It's super tucked inside. Look at that, smothering him. So you see an elbow here, or excuse me, a knee from Demetrius, but there's nothing on it. And look at that. Look at the space here. Rather than being at an angle like he was before, which just completely torched him, now he is chest to chest, hip to hip, smothering him, head pressure. Look at the head

pressure there, forcing him back, collapsing him against the space, right? Much better job. Totally took away this space from him. I really, really liked this from Henry Sohudo, and eventually they just break away. But look, he keeps that inside control the whole time, bicep, forcing it nice and tight the whole time. Right? Look, there's nowhere to go if you're DJ, and eventually DJ gets his back off that side. Suhudo presses right back into him,

constantly pummeling in, constantly on that left-hand side, and then jacking the high-side underhook, and then getting, excuse me, high-side overhook, and then getting him away. So here's the last thing he did. You can put the thumbnail up for just a second. Last thing he did was this. Okay, you can put it back down.

So same thing. These guys clinched a lot, not because they clinched a lot because they would overshoot their shots a lot, not wrestling shots, but punches. And so DJ throws a shot, Sehudo Ducks gets just a really great penetration step here. DJ stuffs it, so they decide to stay in the clinch. Look at this. Now who's coming up under the elbows on the left-hand side. Nice shot from Henry Sehudo, right? And doesn't waste a second.

Same spot as before, right? Here we are. Throws the knee, stands. Remember that this looks similar than Re-Centers' position and doesn't wait an instant. Goes for an inside trip off the outside overhook, catches the knee, drives through, and takes him down.

How many times did he land this in that fight? You can put the thumbnail up. Over and over and over and over again. So here's what I'm talking about. You can look at a guy like T.J. Dillashal, what do the best fighters do? They have a modular game that they can adapt for a particular purpose.

It didn't require a ton of adaptation for T.J. Dilleshaw to go from the first of the third fight. You have to pick the right entries. You have to know which circumstances your opponent is most vulnerable. You have to make some adjustments on the fly. But it was more or less in place. For Henry Sohudo, he had to do a major overhaul, and he did it. Completely shut down Demetrius Johnson in the clinch. You can say he lost the fight.

There's no way you could say he lost in that space. Didn't waste any time. Got that take down. that takedown once in the first fight, he got it multiple times in this one. That inside trip was always there. And this time, he didn't wait around to mess with the guy. He completely smothered him. He getting hip-to-hip against the fence or in outside space, if there's any distance between us, shoot for that takedown. If you don't get it, at least it causes a scramble, and you can force away, and then more often than not, he actually got it. So really good job. So that brings us

to these two. Real quickly, I want to show you just some very basic stats comparing them. I'll blow this up. This is, you can't quite read it, but I'll blow it up. This is Henry Sohudo on the inside. On the outside's T.J. Dillishaw, I will read these to you if you can't see them. Here we are. Wins and losses, of course, sort of irrelevant for the circumstances. Average fight time. 1342, 12, 26. Not all together dissimilar. Henry Sehudo is 5.4 to T. T.J. Dillishaw is is 5.15, ostensibly. Reach. T.J. Dillishal is going to have a bit of a longer reach, but the question is how he uses it. They classify both of them as orthodox fighters,

but, you know, they both switch stances. Strikes landed per minute. Henry Sehudo 3.42, T.2, T.2. Dilleshaw, 5.38. Pay attention to that. See if you can get any kind of a lead established by simply creating more offensive volume. Striking accuracy is nearly identical.

Strikes absorb per minute, not too dissimilar. Striking defense is nearly identical. Take downs average per minute, actually, per 15 minutes. Henry Sohudo, 2.31. 1.69. That is important. As I mentioned, pay attention to the volume of output that in terms of strikes that TJ has. Pay attention to the takedowns. That's going to be kind of important, if not to either get them, but to threaten them. Take down accuracy is about the same. Take down

defense is about the same. All right? Last, what does this tell us? Understanding how this fight's going to go. By the way, this could resemble each of their last fights. Do not misunderstand me. Both of their last fights look completely different, but here's what I mean. You've got a guy like T.J. Dilashaw, who I think is going to be looking to pressure. He's going to be looking to find his way on the inside. You've got a guy like Henry Suhudo, who's going to be used to absorbing that pressure a little bit. He's going to be used to counterfighting exactly like he did against DJ. I don't think he has Garbrand power, but at 125, we'll see how things go. But the point being is, that dynamic is a little bit in play. He's still going to want to establish the takedown or the takedown threat at least a

little bit, and he's going to want to be able to get there and trick somebody into overcommitting. It's going to be potentially they're going to borrow some of those game plans as they move into their next fight. Leg kicks. T.J. Dillishaw needs to pay attention to that. I'm sure he will. Henry Sehudo got torn up by leg kicks in that fight, even against Wilson Hayes a little bit, less so Sergio Pettis because he got taken down, but just sort of worthy of mentioning. Sohudo must threaten the takedown. Against wrestleboxers, it's important that he at least established that. You're going to see that and just, well, you saw a bunch of that.

But if you look at the stats, it kind of shows that I'm running short on time here. And the weight cut, who knows how the weight cut's going to look? I mean, what does it do to TJ's chin? What does it do to his cardio? What does it do to his ability to absorb punishment to the body? What does it do to everything? His punching power, his speed, everything. To me, it's a major, major X factor.

I don't really know what to make of it. So who's going to win when these two donkeys fight on ESPN plus? your guess is as good as mine. You know what? I forgot a slide. I am an idiot. Here's one thing to pay attention to against, how did I forget this slide, against wrestleboxers, he goes to the body a lot. So pay attention to the bodywork of Henry Sohudo. I didn't put it in here for some reason. But that is a key component of his game. He really, really likes to go to the body. And not against the Sergio Pettis who he takes down, not against the Wilson Hases, who are overmatched, but against those guys like a Benavides against those guys like a Demetrius Johnson.

And Demetrius Johnson's less a wrestleboxer, but he kind of acted like one in that capacity. The body work, it's almost even with his headwork, not quite, but pretty close. So pay attention to the body work for him. So leg kicks for T.J. Body work for him. How's the weight cut going to go?

Do they borrow some of the same game plans from their last fight? I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine, but I actually feel like these two guys are good at a lot of things. And here's the last point about Henry Sehudo. I mentioned, why does TJ have all these impressive stats? Why does Henry not?

Because Henry has just entered the mature stage of his game. He's finally in a stage now where everything has kind of grown and come together. He's been there for a while. Now, I'm not declaring that he wins. I'm not declaring he wins. I really don't know that weight cut is such an X factor. But here's the point that I am making. I am suggesting to you that Henry Suhudo, if you watch some of his older fights,

It is so different. So he just hasn't been in a space where he has been able to really show who he is and develop offensive volume and defensive attributes on top of it. I think now he's in that stage. I think you saw that with the Wilson Hayes fight and then the Sergio Pettus fight

and certainly in the second Demetrius Johnson fight. Only now is he entering that space. So don't let the stats totally fool you here. They are helpful, but they're not ironclad. They do tell you a lot about him, Not a lot about him. Can't wait for Saturday. That's the Monday morning analyst.

All right. Not a moment to waste. Let's do it now. It's time for a round of tweets. All right. Clock starts when the first tweet goes up. Let's do it. Gang.

Gang, gang. Where we at? Where are we at? All right. How annoying is it that this new deal with ESPN hasn't spurned on any change to the start times? Ten is just too late. That being said,

I predict a lot of finishes and a 212 main card with Suhudo getting the last one in the first. I'm told that they're supposed to be going faster. That was what it was indicated to me. But it's the same thing with like, oh, I'm going to boycott John Jones's fights. Yeah, no, you're not. You're going to watch them. One way or the other, you're going to watch them. And they know that even if they have these long-ass broadcasts, we're still going to watch them.

So I'm told it will be better. But even if it's not, what are you really going to? to do about it. Stop watching MMA. I mean, it just sucks, but it's the reality. Next. True false speed round one. Rockhold fights for a title by the end of 2019. True. Robert Whitaker defends his belt three times this year, false. He's just too injury prone. He's a great fighter, but he's to injury prone. GSP fights for a multi-weight strap this year if Woodley loses the belt false. Anthony Smith versus John Jones is a war? Probably false. Greg Hardy gets a title shot in 2019, also false. Next. Are we ever going to see Jimmy Smith on

the MMA beat. Yeah, I don't have a budget to fly guests out, but to the extent he is ever in New York City, he has an open invitation. So, sure, I would love to see him. But we don't, like, we can't fly donks across the country. We just, you know, they have to just sort of be here. And if he's here, we, I'd be super smart guy. I'd love to have him. Next. What's Luke's problem with bird box? Please. I will unblock you. What's the problem with Birdbox? Well, it's a shit movie designed for rubs. The construction is, it takes away all the tension.

Sandra Bloch's a decent actor. The monsters are unimaginative. The entire story is essentially derivative. And the reality is when you donks don't want to admit, these are the same morons that when that movie Bright came out, they're like, bright's a good movie. Yeah, if you've never seen a movie before, If that's literally the only movie you've ever seen, you're like,

eh, it's pretty good. Movies might be all right. But if you've actually seen other movies, you know that it's just trash. But the difference is you don't have to get in your car and drive to the movies. And depending on where you live, pay for parking, and then pay for whatever else you get. And you've got to buy extra tickets.

And it ends up being like $40, $50, $60 for you and the family to go. It's just part of your monthly subscription. So you let it slide. But it's not under any circumstance, actually good cinema. You want to see good cinema? Here's two recommendations. for you. Go see GoGetters, which was an independent Canadian movie that was made, about two degenerates just trying to use each other. It's a comedy, though. It's a black comedy.

And then go see the captain, a German movie about a guy, true story, a private who falls upon near the end of the war, World War II, a captain's uniform, and he assumes his identity and goes on the sort of moral crusade, but in a backwards way. It's really incredible. Go see those are good movies. Next. So we just go from 232 to 234. why doesn't the UFC just change the marquee of the February event? Because you'd have to change everything that came after it. Next.

After his submission loss, BJ Penn says he is still uncertain about retirement. With a record of 16, 13, and 2, albeit for us to tell a man when he's fighter to retire, but will his reluctance to retire tarnish his legacy when the new generation of fans only see a 50% record? Well, I never know how to feel about these things about the tarnishing the record,

because it's like, even if he does a bunch of stuff now, it doesn't undo the stuff he did previously. But you got a hard time convincing me he should be fighting again. Hard time, man. Under what circumstances? Like, here's the thing about this.

It's like, you can never tell another man to retire. Well, you're right, I can't. I can tell him that I think he should, but I can't. But here's the point. That's literally the job, if it comes to it, of an athletic commission. Right?

If your friends won't do it and your family won't do it, or at least they can't do it, and you're sort of stuck, the commission's job is to be like, yeah, no, we're not going to allow it. Now, you can't do it just because you want to preserve a guy's legacy, but is it safe for him to be out there?

I really don't know that it is at this point. And you're talking about a guy who when I was a fan was my favorite fighter, by far. Next. Gillespie is way too underrated. Where do you think he stacks up with other lightweight prospects like Clos, Hernandez, and Hackperast? Man, I don't know, but I think very highly of his abilities.

I've told you, this fight against Yancey Medeiros is very much under the race. radar. I think that the upper bound limit of what he can do is very high, but until he gets out there and does it, I'm not going to make any predictions next. Who wins? Many Paciow or Adrian Broner and what's next for the winner? What are the chances for a co-promotion between UFC and Belator at heavyweight and light heavyweight zero. I know it will make over 5 million views for a pay-per-view. It'll never happen. As for Pac-Yau and Broner, I'm going to go Pac-iao because everybody hates Adrian Bruner. All right, do we have our guest here? What's the word on that? Can you just tell me what happened? All right. So apparently Gordon Ryan stuck in traffic. What do we want to do here? Seriously? These shows, these shows are impossible to plan.

They are impossible to plan. All right. This is amazing. All right. Are you guys siced for the ESPN takeover at ESPN Plus? I got to tell you, Here's how I'm feeling about it. I have gotten a gazillion questions,

a gazillion questions about how they can watch. Now, any kind of change is painful. And any kind of change is, gosh, what do you want to say? Going to be difficult for folks? I mean, if you, I have lived through a number of, like, site refreshes or if you just change the way your site looks, the initial impression is every time everybody hates it.

You think, oh, no, this time they'll like it. No. Every time they hate it, doesn't matter, It doesn't matter what you do. They hate it because they come to be accustomed to what you're doing. And so in a much less level, or that's what that is, at a higher level, you know, changing your broadcast partner. And literally, now we're going to be mostly online and streaming. And by the way, only streaming in this country, but it'll be for this country,

but you can get it a different way in another country. It has created a fair amount of confusion, understandably. but is he here? Do we have Gillespie? Oh, all right. Anyway, so if you guys are out there confused about where you can watch and you don't live in the United States or Canada, I got a lot of people from like New Zealand and Australia hitting me up. And the answer is, I think, I think the answer is fight pass.

But if not, like someone from Australia hit me up and I was like, yo, go ask the boys from submission radio. Because they'll know. The answer is, you will. still get UFC content. It's not going away, but the method in which you get it might be different depending on your country, but ask the relevant MMA journalists or media figures in those countries. I don't have a clear grasp, frankly, of how you're going to get it either. All right. Here, this is fun. By the way, everyone got bitter of me, including Brian Boone-Kelleher

about Stevia. I'm right about Stevia. It's gross. Only gross. Only gross. people use it. Splenda, good for killing rats as well as sweetening your coffee. And folks are like, y'all don't put anything in my coffee. Yeah, well, if you get good coffee, I wouldn't do it either. But when you get coffee, you can't trust, you got to do it. All right. Let's go to this gentleman now. He comes to us a little bit early. So we are very excited about this. This guy, people ask me how good he is. And I'm like, I think really good. But we're not going to know until a weekend like the one coming up. He has a big opportunity against Yancey Medeiros at UFC Fight Night ESPN plus whatever the one and only Gregor Gillespie is here.

Hi, Gregor. Look at this guy. Hey, what happened to the hair? No, it's still there. Oh, okay. I couldn't see it from the angle. How's that? That better?

No, not really. There we go. Yeah, you got the whole man bun and everything. Yeah, I'll get it chopped off right. before the fight, though. I can't have that in my eyes. So it's been a little fight ritual right before then we get on the bus to go over to the arena. I put it in front of my eyes and I cut anything off in front of my eyes. Why do you grow it out then? Just to feel like a wild man? I don't know, man. I like it. I like being different. I've always been a little different with my hair. So I'm always doing

something funny with it, mullet or dying at funny colors or doing a man bun. I don't know. Bro, how much money do you spend on tackle boxes every year? I'm in my car right now. I don't know if you can see behind me, but I just pulled in. I was running some errands. I was going to Dix and getting some clothes for the, you know, the weight cut this week and everything and some plastic suits.

But I got my rods right here behind me. I don't know if you can see it. I can get my tackle back there. I get a lot of my stuff from some tackle sponsors, so I don't have to pay it for a ton of it. But I put a lot of money into my boat. That's where a lot of my money goes, fixes, repairs, upgrades on the boat. So that's a lot of money goes into the boat.

boat. Yo, you know what's amazing about you, Gregor? I get more questions via email about you than maybe any other fighter. And let it be known, I get a lot of questions via email. You are a bit of an enigma, right? You march to the beat of your own tune or whatever the proper phrasing is. And yet, you're out there just crushing these people. They want to see more of you. And you feel a little bit, and understand, this is not a slight. It's just an observation. You feel a little disconnected from the rest of MMA a little bit. I don't want to know if I, I wouldn't suggest. disconnected. I'm not going to do the same thing that everyone's doing, though, you know, running their mouth. And I'm not a, I don't know, can I swear on the show? Am I loved this? Yes. Yes. Yeah.

I don't talk, and I'm not a shit talker. I've never been a shit talker. My dad taught me when I was really young, you keep your mouth shut and you win. Because if you open your mouth and you lose, you look like an asshole. So I don't do that. I know it's part of the entertainment business and fighting as an entertainment business. But my, I entertain people with my winning and my performances and I let that speak for my for myself you know and I'm not gonna I'm not I'm not good at talking shit so people will be able to tell that it's it's just not organic if I'm talking shit and it'll look manufactured and I mean obviously there's guys like Connor McGregor and a few other big names in the sport that have made a living on it and they can fight as well obviously but

I'm just going to let my my fight and do the talk and I know that's kind of cliche sounding but I'm just not good at that run in my mouth and I'm not going to pretend to be so I marched to my own beat, like you said, you know, my beat of my own drum, and that's the way it's always going to be. Yeah, you certainly do. What I say disconnected again, I don't mean it in a bad way. And what I mean to say is there just always appears to be, even on social media, it's you and your team, and that's it, man. Like, there's no other reference to the outside world. You have this little bubble you keep, it keeps you happy, it keeps you sane, and that's the world you're happy to live in. It's so unlike everyone else who's reaching out far beyond, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I don't know. I guess I'm not in the, I don't know. I don't want to say I'm an attention. I'm not an attention whore. And then, you know, I allude to the fact that other people are attention whores. But I just like to be left alone and win my fights. And I like to, you know, I like to win my fights. And I like to train hard. And I like my team. I love my team. And I love being around my team. And I don't need validation via Twitter. My validation is from my team and from getting my hand raised. And I really don't need, you know, I don't need to be picking on people on Twitter. I actually, a little while back, someone was talking shit on my Instagram page about a guy that I previously saw, Vince Pichel. And I told him to get lost. I deleted his comments. I said, don't do that shit on my page, man. You know, I'm a classier guy than that. I'm a grown up, man. I'm 32 years old.

I'm not in fucking high school, you know, picking on somebody and letting the rumor mill spend. You know, it's just not me. If that, and I'm not, again, I'm not picking on anyone who does that. If that's how you make your money and how you get more followers, you know, more power to you. I think there's a lot of, there's a lot to do that. But I'm just not good at it and it's not me, so I'm not going to pretend to be that. The only issue with that is you know how the ladder has climbed, partly the way you're doing it with an undefeated record just running over people. That's one way.

But the other way is to marry that with some level of public celebrity. Do you feel like, yes, if you keep winning, they can't deny you. That much is true. But they can delay it. Sure, they can. I'll wait my turn. Wow. I keep winning.

They can't, I mean, at some point, you got to let, you got to, I mean, at some point, you win enough fights, you get a title shot. That's how it goes, you know, and I haven't asked for that yet. I haven't beaten enough guys. And I don't pretend, I'm not sitting here complaining. Oh, my God, and poor me, I haven't gotten the fights I, I've gotten all the fights that I want, that I've wanted. And I haven't asked for, you know, anything up, you know, I haven't asked for that.

I haven't beaten anyone to deserve that spot yet. So I'm not complaining. I'm, I'm where I should be. If I keep winning and we keep climbing the ladder as planned, this is a, a calculated climb, then I get to where I'm going. You know, and if at that, you know, we get to that point where I got to say, who you got to call, you have to call someone out. I'll call the guy out who has the belt on.

If I want the belt, I'll call that guy out. But up until that point, there's no point in calling someone out. There's so many good guys. They give you, hey, these are the guys that you're allowed to fight. You know, who would you like, okay, how about this guy or that guy? Okay, this guy is unavailable. Okay, okay, take that guy. You know, so that's where we're at right now.

But, you know, when it comes to the point and it's time for a title shot, I'll say, give me the guy whoever's got the belt, you know? And that's where we're at. Why do you think I get so many emails about you? Well, there just must be a ton of fishing fans out there, right? Maybe. That's one theory. That's one theory. I don't know. What is it? You tell me, what are they asking you? I got to hear this. I think the fact, here's my theory. It's all it is. It's just a theory.

I think the fact that they never see you, and then when they see you, you just clobber these guys. And then you're right back into, not hiding, but, you know, that kind of, your normal life, so to speak. And it's confusing for them because everyone else has a public life.

Sure. And I think my best friend and one of my corner man, Kyle Cermanera, says it all the time. He's like such an enigma. You're such like, you're a weird figure in the MMA world because you don't play the games and you don't live the fighter.

life. You show up to fight. You fight. You win. And then you kind of go do your own thing. And that's kind of what you're stating here. And that's true. I do my training. I train, you know, 19 times a week. That's more than anyone, I guarantee it. And I put my time in in the gym and I do my hard workouts. And I shut my mouth. And I'll post a few pictures of me training before the fight with my team and the guys that I'm working out with. I win my fights. And then 99% of everything after that for the few following the months following the fight is fishing. And That's what I'm doing. That's my life. So I'm working out in between my fishing or before and after my fishing, but I'm hanging out with my friends, you know, whether it's in Long Island or

upstate New York when I go home and visit my family. I'm fishing. That's what I'm doing. So I don't know why the other guys spent so much time online and I don't know. Maybe that's a calculated move and that's helping them climb. I don't know. I'm not judging anyone. But for me, I'm showing you what I'm doing in my life. So if you see me and I fight and then you see me on my boat for two months after, know that I'm working out before and after I'm on my boat. But that's what I'm doing. I'm with my friends on my boat and I'm out salmon fishing on Lake Ontario. I'm musky fishing on Wadena Lake or whatever they could.

That's what I'm doing. So I'm not pretending to do anything, what I'm really doing. Okay. Sell me on fishing. What is great about fishing? Now, understand this question comes from somebody who has done it, but probably not like you. I mean, like I said, I do 19 workouts a week, and that's almost year round. it's almost like a little bit of a prison sentence,

especially when we're leading up to a fight. And I lived like that in college. And when I was done with college wrestling, and that was a Division I one wrestler at Edinburgh University. And I remember saying I'll never compete at anything again. My sentence is served. My time is done. And I really felt that way for about two years.

And then I ended up getting back into doing some wrestling again, which led me into fighting. But I have a very structured lifestyle. I have a very regimented routine that I stick to that, like religiously. And this up until a few years ago, I hadn't fished in, I don't know,

God knows how long. And one of my friends, Matt Lamarrow from Edinburgh, I was visiting my coach in Edinburgh. He said, you want to go fishing? I said, eh,

I don't know, he's like, you ever catch a musky? I said, yeah, right, musky, fish a 10,000 cast. He's like,

I'll get you a musky in under an hour. I said, bullshit. Takes me out in Edinburgh Lake. We had two fish and two musky in under an hour. And since that point,

I was like, man, and it was just really, it was something really exciting outside of fighting. And I bought a boat shortly after and we started fishing as much as possible. And it gives me like a cut of a reprieve from my, it gives me a weekend. I'll put it that way. I didn't ever have a weekend, whether it was Monday or Saturday. It was the same routine that I didn't have any break from that.

And this is what that allows me to do. And it gives me something on Friday, I'm looking forward to going out, even during camp. on Friday, I'm looking forward to Saturday after my last workout. I go up my buddy, Justin, Justin Akradino. We go out and we fish Saturday and Sunday. And it gives me a little bit of just kind of a break from that, you know, grind of the week. So, and that's what it does for me. So, I mean, if you've never caught a giant fish, that's something that is, like, extremely exciting.

So, I mean, but it gives me a little bit of a break. That's what it does for me. So I went fishing one time and I was going for catfish. I mean, there was a bunch of fish, but this was an area filled with catfish. And instead, I caught an invasive species. You ever caught a gar before? I know what a gar is. You must have been down south, huh?

Yeah, like a dinosaur I pulled out of the water. After that, I was like, it was not so fun. Yeah, where were you? I was in South Georgia. Yeah, you're in the muddy waters. You're like the gar catfish, alligator gar. Those things are like, yeah, they're legit dinosaurs. So, yeah, I do a little bit different.

So that's like bait fishing. You'll use like, you know, like dead fish or chicken liver, you know, rotten meat for those kind of fish. That's not, what I do is more like sport fishing. So we go out, we go on the big lakes and we put, you know, artificial lures down and we run them behind the boat, you know. And we salmon fish, musky fish, pike fish. No, we don't do any bait fishing though. It's all artificial. So a more sporty.

Well, you're trying to catch a big fish this weekend when you take on Yancey Medeiros. Size him up from you. As you assess the challenge, what is it? We don't talk about my opponents. That's something I never do. I'll tell you that I'll be ready. I'm sure he'll be ready. I expect a war.

I'm prepared for a war. If it doesn't go down like that, I'm happy. If it goes to a war, I'm ready for it. So that's all I'll say. I don't talk about my opponents, and I've stuck to that religiously since I've started fighting. So I'm not going to start now. What's the rule on that?

Why did you establish it? I don't know. It's just, you know, ever since I was a kid, wrestling, my dad told me don't overlook any opponent. and my college coach had me focused more on me than scouting my opponents. My coaches watch my opponents. They come up with the game plan. They train me accordingly.

I don't sit there and obsess about what my opponents are going to do. Is Yancey really good? I'm sure. But I'm not sitting there watching him on film and I'm not talking about him to anyone. I want to envision what I do well and I want to picture what I do well and go over the game plan of what I'm going to do in my head. So again, nothing against my opponents. It's just something that I don't, it's not something that I don't. It's not something that I do.

And I'm not going to sit here and I'm not going to start now. Interesting. Let me zoom out for just a second then. As a general matter, either in college or now, did you, do you watch tape? Is that a thing that you care about? Or are you one of those guys who's like, I let the coaches do it. I focus on me. Yeah, I watch tape.

Do you know who I watch tape of? You? Me. Hey, it's my own film. It's more important to see you being successful. You know what I mean? You need to remember how good you are. You need to remember what you do well.

You need to remember what worked for you. So that's kind of something my college coach had me do. And I still do. So stick to the game plan, not reinventing the wheel at this point. Do you have a manager? This is sort of a dumb question. Do you have one? I do.

Yeah. I do. Yeah. Okay. All right. I just wanted to see it because I didn't know if that was a thing that mattered to you. Some guys don't have one. You might be one of those candidates.

Yeah. they take great care of me. All right. Fair enough. Has the UFC indicated what they want from you? Um, I think they want me to keep winning. And I think they want me to, you know, keep climbing the ladder. I think, you know, I, I don't know.

I love what the UFC is doing for me. I have no complaints with what the UFC has done. I have high praise for them. They've taken great care of me. And I'll keep winning for them. And if they want to push me, they push me. So that's where we're at. But I have been nothing but treated greatly by the UFC.

I love them. I love working for him. I love fighting for him. And hopefully we can make this a really long relationship with, you know, a lot of wins in the future. Do you have 2019 specific goals in mind as it relates to your occupation? I want to get through this fight. I, you know, I have, you know, obviously got to play the long game and look to the future.

I want to win the belt at some point. But you can't count to three without counting the one and two. So, you know, this is step one for 2019, and we got to get past this hurdle first. And I know it sounds cliche, me saying that, but, you know, I got to focus on this weekend. This is every fight, you know, the next fight is the biggest one of your career. So that's where we're at right now and had to jump this hurdle first. So this guy who you have doing your strength and conditioning, I have seen some of those videos on your Instagram page. This gentleman seems like a true maniac.

You were doing what, like pin squats where you're trying to drive through, but there's no weight on bar, you're just trying to jam it up as much as you can. Who is this gentleman? And what does he have you doing? Vinny Uzi. You should follow him at Vinny Uzi Uzi Uzi, Vinny Uzi. Uzi. He's my strength and conditioning coach.

He's a guy that he was a former kickboxer. He was training at the gym at Belmore kickboxing with Keith Trimble well before I was there. He had some fights. He ended up retiring from fighting. And he is a strength and conditioning coach here in Long Island. He has a gym at his house. And man, he's super creative. I'll tell you what, man.

I didn't start training like real strength and conditioning until my second fight in the UFC, which was April of 2017. So the months leading up to that, and I've been significantly more explosive and more powerful and better shape than I've ever been. I attribute a lot of my success to that strength and conditioning that I do with him. So yeah, Vinnie Uzi, you should follow on Instagram. He's very creative. You obviously see those workouts we do.

Yeah. And I think the one, yeah, the one you were alluding to was, we had the rack set up under we had the bar under the rack and we're trying to drive the bar up into the rack and the rack's not going anywhere so it's literally is i mean you can't really manufacture a max squat more appropriately than that right so you push as hard as you can and it's like pushing into a wall because it's not going anywhere and then you jump right out of that and you do some we call them uh hula hoops where you go around and you're hitting body shots your shadow boxing body shots then you're in really low stance following him around it it's just part of our like conditioning circuit. But like I said, he's super creative and the guy there's not anyone around here that knows more than him. It's amazing. It's amazing to watch. I love watching these mad scientist strength and conditioning guys. It's incredible to watch. So I look forward to seeing how that translates to your performance. Let me ask you one more thing about the relative anonymity. You know, it's another thing that curse me now that we're talking is, you know, a lot of the guys who

are blue chip prospects, they're out of ATT, they're out of AKA, they're out of these Jackson camps. And there's nothing wrong with that, right? As you would probably note, if that works for you, do it. But what you're doing in Long Island is working for you as well. It's just that in the media, we don't have a lot of your teammates telling us. Like if you train to AKA Daniel Cormier will tell us a bunch of things. Kane Velazquez will tell us a bunch of things. I think that might have an effect too, Gregor.

Yeah, maybe. I don't need a, I don't need paths on the back. I don't need people shout my name out. I get my hand raised. That's enough for me. I get a hug for my brother and sister. I go home and I see my mom and dad. Keith gives me a hug if I do well.

No. Oh, there he goes. Yeah, I'm back. Okay, okay. My buddy, man, he just called me. Oh, yeah, my buddy, man, he's going to bring him in the city tomorrow. Hopefully he doesn't come back. But no, you know, I'll get a hug and a kiss from all my family and friends,

and I'll go out fishing with my buddies on the boat, and that's all I need. You know, I don't need people telling me. I know that I'm good. You know, my main training part, partner, Andre Harrison, he's, uh, he just, he's great competing in that BFL. Yeah, he's really good, man. And I think he's one of the best one of 45 hunters on the planet, if not the best. Um, you know, he had a tough loss to Lance Palmer in that BFL tournament, but I train him every day. So, you know, we got a really good group of guys, but we're training, obviously, you know, the guys over at Long Island

MMA, the guys have about more kickboxing. Uh, we got a nice more guys I've worked out with. But, you know, as far as, like, having my face on the, I don't know, doesn't, um, um, um, uh, I just want to, that's the most important thing. Winning, the result is the only important thing in the long run. Tell me why, tell me why fishing is better than hunting. I'm not saying that it is. I just, I've, honestly, I've never been hunting. I shot guns a lot growing up.

We grew up in a very, you know, secluded area in upstate New York. And we, you know, you drive about 10 minutes out of town and you're an Apple Orchance three can shoot whatever you want. So we grew up shooting guns, but I never, I never have actually been on a hunt. You know, obviously when we were, me and my best friend, when I was younger, Kyle Arsenal, we used to shoot squirrels and frogs and stuff. But I'd never actually gone to a deer hunt or a hog hunt or anything like that. I'm sure I'd love it.

I think there's a little more involved with, you know, tracking and tracking and, and setting up trail cams and all that. Again, I'm not familiar with it, but I think it's probably a little more involved than getting in a boat and going out and finding a spot and running some lures behind a boat. So I think there's probably a little more instant gratification fishing, which is a little more up my alley. But I don't know that fishing is better than hunting. I've never been hunting, so I can't even say that. You are the nicest madman in the world, Gregor Gillespie.

You truly are. Yeah, so I get on top of you. Yeah, exactly. And then you're a demon. Well, I got to tell you, man, the emails can't lie. People are interested in you. They are interested in seeing what happens on Saturday. And I count myself among them.

And best of luck to you, you don't need it. Sounds like you're prepared. But I can't wait to see it. It'll be on ESPN Plus. Gregor Gillespie takes on Yancey Medeiros. Thank you, Gregor. Awesome. Yep.

See you Saturday. There he is. One of the best lightweights in the world, man. Truly. Truly, truly, truly, truly. He is an excellent fighter. Okay. So we are waiting here.

We are waiting here. I believe Gordon Ryan is in the building. Let's bring him in. Oh, Dave is talking to him. All right. So he is getting miced up. Let me up. Can you guys have the asset I sent to Danny?

Can that go on the screen? All right. So here is what's going to happen. You're going to have the Combat Jiu Jitsu Fight Night. This will be Friday, February 22nd, 10 p.m. Four-man combat Jiu Jiu Jazev. It's going to be, you see on the left there Fabrizio Verdum, then you see Josh Barnett.

The gentleman you don't recognize at the bottom right of the screen. I think it's Rustum Chisayev. And at the top, it's Gordon Ryan. So it's a four-man one-night tournament. Ryan is going to take on Verdume and then Chisiev, I could never not pronounce his last name because it's like no vowels except one or two maybe.

And then he's going to take on Barnett. Winner of that faces off at the end of the night. Here's the deal with this. This was supposed to be like in Mexico or something. And I think they had moved it back to L.A., number one. And number two, is supposed to be on pay-per-view. And now it's going to be on FightPass. It is going to be on Fight Pass.

If you're a Fight-Pass customer, you get to see Fabrizio Verdum, you get to see Josh Barnett, You're going to see our next guest here, Gordon Ryan. I'm told he's, we'll be here momentarily. And, of course, it's combat jiu-jitsu, which means you can slap. Pow, pancreas style.

So that should be highly interesting, number one. And number two, I am told by our own Guillermo Cruz that Verdume has said he's going to win the tournament via K.O. Slap. Pow, the old stock, well, the Stockton slap is this way. It's the old pimp slap, I believe. Or is it, can you Stockton Slap this way? I actually don't know.

The Dana White video where he gets slapped is like, yeah, I guess you can, of course. So the Stockton Slap goes forehand, and then the Pimp Slap is the tennis backhand. All right, here he is. I believe he's coming in. Any second now. They keep telling me. Where is he? The king himself.

All right. There he is. All right. My man, Gordon Ryan. Nice to meet you. How are you? You too? How's he?

I see, good, good. I heard the traffic was a nightmare. Always in New York. Yeah, they put you in an Uber, didn't they? Yes, they did. That was the big mistake. It's always faster on the subway. It is, it is.

But it's more fun than an Uber. It is more fun in an Uber. I see you got your whole crew here? Yeah. They go to the everywhere? They go to the U.S.C. fight pass. Oh, is that right? Yeah.

Oh, right on. I thought that you guys would be, like, aware that we were coming with them because Victor from from combat jihitsu fight night. He's like, oh, UFC wants you to do the MMA hour for the combat jihitsu. So I just assumed you guys knew that these guys were coming. We did not. They did not give me a list of the names. But we got you in.

So you're all here. Thank you for coming. I appreciate it. Thank you guys for having me. You know what's amazing? I've been following you on social media for the last week. Wow. Yep.

It's been interesting. You got a shitload of beefs, man. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's been fun. So let me set the table here if I can. We'll talk about the combat jiu-jitsu thing in just a minute. I just plugged the hell out of it, so they'll be fine.

You had a career where you initially developed a name in EBI. Yes. I'll tell you candidly, I pay more attention to the IBJF tournaments. I don't make it. I'm not telling you that's the best thing to do. I want a few of those, so it's okay. No, no, we'll get to that. So the EBI guys, I thought were good, but I think you would agree generally the better A class

competitors are typically an ADCC and IBJF? Yes, yes. All right. So then I saw you in ADCC and my eyes went like that. I was like, holy shit, he might be the real deal of Holyfield. Then you did what you did at Quintet, where you submitted Josh Barnett fast, and then you won the No Gee Worlds. I think you got double gold there, right?

Yeah, yeah. So let's just sort of state it outright. You're the best no-gee grappler on the planet, right? Yes. Right? Why is there so much consternation in the jihitsu community about this? Because I'm not Brazilian. Is that, that's the whole thing?

If I was Brazilian, I'd be like a god, but I'm just like some white dude who everybody hates. So. Explain to me how that works. Like, how do you know that's the reason? Because you are a little bit antagonistic. Oh, yeah, definitely antagonize people because, like, the biggest thing for me was when I won EBS. Like that's when people started talking shit Like if Yuri wasn't heard he would have beat you and I felt like I was like a new guy who came up and I felt like I really earned that like I really earned that win

And everyone was like oh Yuri was just heard if he was fresh he would have he would have beat Gordon Uri some ways Yeah and you know I'm like you know like what are you guys talking about like you both had two matches like I finished my matches Early he went to overtime it's not my fault and I really felt like offended by that So I was like you know like people are gonna talk shit no matter what You may as well just say what you want and stuff Some people will love you, some people will hate you. So I definitely antagonize people, but for so long, also the sportsman dominated by Brazilians that, like, I feel like some of them can't handle, like...

An American, not even just an American, just a non-Brazilian coming up and dominating people the way that I am. Do you get, like, messages to this effect? Like, oh, FU Gringo or something like that? No, but most of the people who do attack me are Brazilian. I mean, I have people who love me who are Brazilian as well. But I feel like the majority of the people who hate on me are of Brazilians. Is the argument that it's cultural? You know, I don't really know what it is

Because the Brazilians dominated the sport for so long Everyone came from Brazil and they started You know, they started Jiu-Sitsu in America I don't know if it's just that they think that That like people who aren't Brazilian should be good at Jiu-Jitsu I don't know what it is But I think like, you know, everyone thinks like America Like nationalists like think like

I think that America is the greatest I think it's like Brazil is the same way with Jiu Like Brazilians think that Brazilian should be very good at Jiu Right, I see it. So then here you come a lot not really making apologies for who you are. And they just sort of can't handle it. I think so.

And everyone has like this fake idea built around jiu-jitsu should be based around, you know, being humble and respectful. But that's not what jih Tjitsu is like trade on at all. Like the graces, you should just beat up people just to prove that jihitsu was a better martial art in Brazil. Hell, they're still doing it, right? Yeah, I know. So, I mean, I don't know.

Like, people have this fake idea where they think that you should be like humble and respectful, but that's not always the case. I would like to push back on that just a little bit, if I may. Yeah. If you look at the history of jih Tzu, as I understand it, that is true. I think they used to be what called the juju-brae boys who were like, they were all sort of, they were rich people, but they were thugs essentially, fucking people up left and right. But, for example, if you look at Muay, Muay, Muay Thai, they took it from what it was and they made it sort of like a script mall martial art here. I'm not to demean it, but I'm saying it's accessible to a wide population.

Yes. the fact that it was a way for incredibly poor people to make money in Thailand doesn't make this experience as a sort of mom-and-pop martial art less authentic. So I think you're right in terms of that's how it was in Brazil. But I can sort of see people are trying to get moms and accountants and, you know, not everyone has a Gordon Ryan. They're trying to get donks like me to come through the door. Yeah, of course, of course.

So they're doing the whole bow on the mat thing. Yeah, of course. I mean, and that's what they have to do. If you're running a business, you can't be talking shit to the little six-year-old kid who's like trying to do a bridge and shrimp. You know, you have to be, the athlete side of you has to be different than the business side of you, of course. Yeah. Now, when did all this start?

Because I remember, like, you started out doing like challenge matches. Yes. The one I remembered was, it wasn't, because you were Gary Tone and Black Belt, right? Gary Tone and John Denner, yeah. It was a co-thing? It was both, yeah. BG Heroes has it as just Gary. So, all right, fair enough.

But at any event, I remember the first time I saw you did a no time, I think, correct me if I'm wrong. You did a no-gee, no-time limit with Kino. Yes. And you won that one. That wasn't a bet match. That was just a no time limit match. When did the bet matches start? So the bet matches started. My first bet match was Todd Muckenheim. Because Todd Muckenheim is just like some guy who trains, I think, somewhere in New York. And he beat me in a grappling industries when I first got my black belt.

It was like a five-minute match, and the points were zero-zero. And I felt like I was attacking him the whole time. By the way, how old were you when you got your black belt? 20. You started when you were 15. Yes. Right. So I felt like I was attacking the whole time, and the ref was, like, from his team.

So they gave him the win at the end. It was zero, zero, and he got the win. So then I beat Keenan, and, like, he made a post about how he beat me and how he wants a rematch. So I'm like, man, this was, like, you know, over a year ago. I'm like, if you want to have a betmatch, if you want to, like, compete, let's have a betmatch. Let's, like, you put up $10,000. I'll put up $10,000, and then we'll compete. So he was like, okay, so he managed to get up $10, put up $10,000.

I got my $10,000 and we competed. And then when I beat him, I took it $10,000 and I went home. Would you worry that you wouldn't be able to secure the bag? Who handled that part? No, it was, I think David Aguzy, I think, from grappling industries, actually had all the money because the event was supposed to happen at his... Match was supposed to happen at his event at first, but then something happened and fell through. So it happened in Florida instead.

But I think David already had the money. So David just distributed it to me once the match was... once the match is over. When did you start making good money doing that? 10 grand is a nice piece of change, but that's not... You're talking with Galvow now about 300K and 250K? Yeah, over... I mean, it goes up pretty exponentially each year,

but over $100,000 I made... I made 2016. Like, the EBI was like a Kickstarter. So, I mean, it's like good money. It's like bittersweet because you make more than the average person at, you know, 22, 23 years old. But, like, compared to a real pro athlete, it's still peanuts.

Like, compared to, like, an NFL player or something. like that. But, you know, good money right from the beginning, 2016, after I won EBI, and I really started getting my name out there. Well, you talk about peanuts, bro. I mean, I'm 39. A good buddy in mine is Seth Smith. He's a Ryan Hall black belt, so I know guys from that era. And there was no money back then. Right. So the only way to make money was to get enough wins on the IBJJF circuit or Grappler's Quest so you could open up a school. Yeah, exactly. That was really the only way to do it. Now, so do you think you've like opened the door to other people? I think so. I mean, I'm really trying to turn grappling into a spectator sport.

Is that possible? That's the issue. The whole thing is 95% of the people who watch grappling events actually do grapple. They participate in the sport. Versus if you look at like 95% of people who watch NBA or NFL, they don't participate in the sport. So the whole thing is how can we make

grappling into a spectator sport by breaking that barrier of getting people from outside the sport to actually watch jiu-of-a-vents. And what's the formula? I mean, Eddie Bravo had it really good with EBI. I don't I mean, he changes the combat jih Tzu, and that seems to be working.

People seem to like that. But as far as I know, like the EBI 10 in Mexico with Gio and Eddie in the finals, I think that was the highest paper view. That had more views in pretty much all the UFCs that year. So that started to get, that started to pick up a lot with EBI and he changes the combat jih Tjitsu.

So I don't know. Maybe he knows something that we don't end. It's going to blow up with combat jitsu. But, you know, EBI was a great way to get people who weren't grapplers to watch it because it was exciting. And he was very smart. He had low-level guys in the beginning,

so he had really exciting matches because there was mismatches. There's essentially two good guys on each side of the bracket. It was like strike force. Yeah, exactly. So one guy has a really exciting matches and there's a lot of submissions in the beginning,

and then you basically just have two guys who sometimes negate each other in the finals and then it goes to overtime. But all their matches going up to that are really exciting because there's a lot of mismatches. Well, if you watch, I don't need to tell you this, but for the audience who may not know, like,

if you watch the Black Belt Finals, let's say in the Ghee, for IBJF. You fall asleep watching it most of the time. First of all, do you agree with there should be tech falls? You got the Mia Brothers going up 46. You had a guy. I think it was your first match, right? 47-0.

Yeah, there should be tech falls at some point, right? Yes. I mean, the thing was, what you did too is always a chance of a submission. So that's the issue. Did that guy have a chance, really? I mean, yeah, I agree. That's why I think they don't have tech falls because there is always a chance that a guy could get a submission at the

end. But yeah, I agree that something should be done about that. Still, at some point, 47th and whatever it was, it's just absurd. But the issue is you get these leg entanglements, and it's just a series of gripping challenges that unless you're highly experienced, it's impossible to follow. Yeah, well, there's no heel hooks is the issue. Like, you have the IBGGF matches. Just toe holds. Yeah, there's toe holds, but from 50-50 is the main stalling position.

And there's no heel hooks, there's no real leg locks that you can do from there. They're effective. The only thing you really have from 50-50 is like a knee bar if you spin, which it really doesn't 50-50 anymore. Or across Achilles' lock, which is like pretty much not effective at the highest levels. Why have you given up? We're not giving up. I saw you in The Ge' on one of Keenan's posts not too long ago, but you have really focused on No-Gee. Why?

Coming up for me, like No-Gy was just always the thing that my training partners were doing. Like Gary was always focused on No-Gy, Eddie was always focused on No-Gy. And I didn't really have like training partners with the same goals as me in the ghee. Gary and Eddie were very competitive, and none of John's students have been competitive in the ghee. So I felt like I always just was, I kind of just gravitated towards no-gee because of Gary and Eddie were just guys that I looked up to, and they were winning at high levels before I was. So I always just gravitated towards no-gee because, you know, my coach, Gary and the high-level guys in the team that were competing at the time were all no-gey guys. Do you have plans to ratchet that up? Um, so, uh...

Sort of? I spent a year really trying to get good in the ghee, and I thought that I just hated it because, uh, because I sucked at it. Like, I would train the first day in the ghee and, like, a blue belt would make a grip and, like, stop my whole sequence of move. I'm just like, what the fuck, man?

I'm so terrible at this. But then after, like, ten months or so, I started getting to a relatively high level. I train with, you know, BlackBot World Champions, world-level guys. And I didn't beat them up, per se, but I definitely help my own against them. So it wasn't that I'm not that I'm terrible in the ghee. I feel like I could do really well against high-level guys right now. It's just something that I don't enjoy as much as MMA training. So I think that I'm just going to start fighting MMA because I just enjoy the training of MMA more than I enjoy ghee training. And the Ghee training has no relevance to MMA at all.

Yeah. See, here's what you do. You came along and you're like, here's how everyone does things. Here's everyone's belief system behind that. And you just gave it the big old middle finger. And then on top that, you did really well. Like, they couldn't take it away from you. It's one thing for someone to be like, oh, the ghee has no relevance to no-gee, but then if you lose, no-one cares. But you want everything. So now they're sort of forced to listen to you. Well, that's the thing is, in the early days in 2004 ADCC. Of course, everyone that trains in the ghee is winning a no-ge, because you have guys that train solely in the ghee, and then they take off the ghee, and they just fight no-ge. But then you have someone like a no-ge specialist, like me or Dean Lister, who goes

in, and they beat a lot of these guys because they specialize in no-ge, versus just having guys you all train the ghee 100% of the time and then move move to no gey it's just like if everyone trained no gey and then move to the gey it would be the same thing just the opposite opposite side of it fair enough i will say joe lazahn made a point once this is for you what you're talking about i think what you're saying is true joel azan made a point to me once i was like does ghee glee training help you at all with m m m m mb, and his answer was a little bit so for example he had a bad omapata but he found himself in that kind of position all the time so he got good at the omoplaata from the ghi and because it's slow you can't just you know

Yeah. You're right? He used that to transition over into a no-gi omopata. So sort of like training wheels. Yeah. So do you buy that as a legitimate way to get better? I mean, not really because, like, you should practice for what you're doing. Like, if his omopata wasn't good without the ghee, it's not because he needed more friction to do it.

It's because his mechanics were off. If he would have just cleaned up his mechanics to be able to hold them in place without the ghee, he would have just stepped that whole process. He would have progressed much faster if you focus on the mechanics without the ghee versus using the ghee to handicap the other guy and then try to get better like that. The process would have been a lot shorter if we just clean the mechanics up versus trying to do it in the ghee and then move back to no gey. Here's a question for you. If you had never met Gary and you had never met John Danaher, would you be this good? Absolutely not. So.

Not even close. So can you explain like how central that has been to your growth and experience? Yeah. So Gary was a big part of my development from... Did you start with him in New Jersey? I didn't start with him. I started with another Ricardo made of Brown Belt, who owned Brunswick BJJ, which is now Gary's school.

Okay. But Miguel Benitez, a blue belt at the time, was my coach for two years. He got his blue belt and then purple belts and then brown and so on. I met Gary when I was a four-striped white belt, and then Gary ended up taking over the school's head instructor when I was two or three-striped blue belt. So then I got my purple belt under Gary, and then I graduated high school.

I worked full-time 40 hours a week, just like throwing grass bags in the back of a garbage truck and training at nighttime. And then when I finally had some money saved up, then I started training consistently under John at Purple Belt. And ever since then, I've pretty much been, you know, Gary was always my instructor, always helping me at nighttime and, you know, going over things in me.

But like the core teacher for all of us has been John. So when did you start linking up with the job? You're 23. 23, yeah. When did you link up with John? I was a Purple Belt, so 1819, 1819. About a solid five years then. Yeah.

How instrumental has that been? Can you give me some kind of explanation for... I would say that... Would you be a world champion if it wasn't for him? I would say that 10% of my success comes from me showing up and my innovations, and 90% of the success comes from what he showed us. Wow, that much, huh? Yeah.

And most people just thank their coaches because they feel like it's the right thing to do. Like, I'm actually... I'm not exaggerating like 90% of the things that you see me do is because of John. When did you have the eureka moment with him? Like, when did you meet him and you were like, oh, my God, this is... So that's the problem is, like, you don't really know how good people are, because, like, you're just, like, a dumb blue belt. So, like, this black belt beat you up just as bad as this guy.

This guy teaches this, and everyone so much better than you that you can't really scale how good guys are. So I met John and I was just like, oh, like, because he never rolled because his hip was so bad. So I was like, oh, this guy, like, team seems kind of smart. And, you know, like, Gary likes him, he trusts him. So I'm going to start learning from this guy. But I had no idea how good he actually was.

It wasn't until, like, really late purple belt and brown belt, where everything he taught me started to make sense. Purple Belt, I started training consistently underneath him, and then Brown Belt was when I started beating everybody. All the things that he was teaching started to click together into systems. And I actually started just killing people from like Purple Belt, like late Purple Belt into Brown Belt, and then I kind of just rose from there.

That's when they had the Gordon Ryan Challenge. They were talking about it. I live in D.C. They were talking about that in D.C. They were like, hey, we're going to send guys up to go do the Gordon Ryan Challenge. That was at the time when you were like, I think you were either late Brown early, early black somewhere in there and you I think this was this the time where like Gary was pimping you out like my student will beat all y'all yep yeah yeah ever remember that I remember I got into like a

I got into like an internet battle with Robert Drysdale at like purple or brown belt did you really yeah and you've been doing this for a long time like uh he probably doesn't remember this he probably is gonna laugh when he sees this but I got into like like a like a two like a two day long debate with Robert Drysdale and then Gary like tried to like get us to have a no time long match and like Robert's like no like who the fuck has this purple belt um but uh But yeah, I had like a long debate about like IBJF, about like how IBJF rules like weren't the best rule set. And me and like Robert got into some big argument about it. That's amazing.

Let's talk about this tournament you're going to be in here, right? Did you hear what Fabricio said in the Brazilian media about it? Not the Brazilian media. I just saw that he said I better make sure I have health insurance. Well, there's that. First of all, do you? He must have health insurance. My parents have health insurance.

I'm on their health insurance. So until 26, I have health insurance. God bless the rents. He said he'll, he's going to win via KO from the. slap. Yeah, there's literally no chance of that happening. All right, so let's talk about Fabricio for just a second. Forget all the Usada stuff and why he's on suspension. Let's just talk about him as a grappler. High level one for his era, certainly. World Champion. Two-time ADCC champion, two-time BlackBot

World Champion. He's a two-time UFC champion. He's in real deal with him up beyond just the accolades. What do you see? He's very big. He's very long. He has a distinct weight advantage and height advantage. He's, you know, two or three inches tall than me. And, you know, probably 40 pounds heavier than me. I'm walking around like 210, 2.15. He's like usually 245, 250. That's when he's fighting.

So he's probably a little heavier than that now. And, you know, he's one of the best of all time, grappling and MMA. He has a case to be, you know, one of the best grapplers of all time, one of the best fighters of all time. You know, he's highly accomplished. By the way, you should know in MMA I had to debate with these idiots who are telling me that as a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu, Nogera, was better than Fabrizio Veradoom. No.

Yeah, no, no. And by the way, he got submitted by him, too. There's that. Anyway, sorry. But as far as, like, the strikes go, there's, you can definitely do damage with open-hand strikes, but on the ground, there's a lot less ability to create a lot of kinetic energy. So most of the damage that comes, most of the striking that does damage on the ground is punches and elbows.

So open-hand slaps are kind of more in annoyance. I don't really, the chances of getting knocked unconscious with them are getting hit so hard that you don't really know what's going on. you get dazed are very low. The rule is you can't slap if we're standing, right? Yeah. You can collar tie club, I guess, but you can't slap. It's only once both people are down?

It's once one guy has a knee, I believe, or a butt down. I could be wrong on that, but I think that's the rule. So one guy can be standing, one guy, I can drop to a knee or sit to guard, and he can start. So he can still be standing, but he had to be, like, hunched over, I guess. Yeah, exactly. And I think that it's going to be easier for me to enter into attacks on him, if he does open up and bring his limbs away from his body to hit me. and I think my game is very bad for someone who's trying to hit me. It plays well into people trying to strike because my whole thing is based on inside position.

I keep my knees inside my knees and hands inside. The biceps is hard for people to be able to get inside position to actually hit me. And on top of that, I play an Ashi Gramey type game, which I don't know what this consensus is that leg locks don't work in an M&A. That's a Vini Megalase thing. But everyone thinks that, like, oh, if you just get punched in the face if you use leglocks. an Ashi Garami or X-Guard type game is much easier to off-balance someone than say a close guard, for example. Number one, they're worried about getting their leg broken, so they have to defend the heel.

Can you explain very quickly for the M.A fans watching what Ashi Garami is just a basic idea? Yeah, so it's basically my two legs controlling one or two of your legs. So any time you try to hit me, I'm constantly off-balancing you. I'm using one of my limbs to control your limbs and use it to off-balance and go into submissions. So why do so many people get fucked up trying for leg locks in M.A.? because they don't have efficient Ashi Karamis. They don't play the position right. They just try to hold the static position

and they get punched in the face trying to leg lock people. They don't have active off-balances side to side back and forth. So how do you deal with someone like Verdum who does have a particular size advantage, right? I mean, whatever else who might say about him, he's got that. Yeah, so he definitely has, he's definitely going to have a strength advantage, I would imagine. But the thing that I will have over him is a power-to-weight ratio. So he's going to have a strength advantage, but I'll have a power-to-weight ratio, and I'll be able to move a lot more than him

and hopefully tire him out. Do you roll with big guys like that? Yeah, we have this guy, Daryl, who's in his mid-30s, I think, I believe it could be older, I'm not really sure. But he played Division I won college football. He's 6'6, 300 pounds, so he's perfect for him. We have Nick Rodriguez who wrestled D3 and is like 6-3-240. So we have a good amount of big guys to train with at a...

Now, Barnett is going up against, I always mispronounce his name, Rustam Chisayev. Yeah. Is that I get it right? It's pretty close. I don't know how to pronounce it. No one knows how to pronounce it. But Rustam. All right, Rustam.

Because I want Rustam, so it's pretty easy. He does what? He's a big top control guy, right? Yeah, so that's an interesting matchup because... Two top control guys. Yeah, because they're both top players, but Rustam will absolutely win the exchange on the feet, even though he's much smaller. Rustim is like a seriously credentialed wrestler.

He's like a junior world champion, I'm pretty sure. So I think that Rustim actually... actually takes Josh down. And I don't know if he submits him, but he definitely takes him down and controls him. And then overtime is going to be interesting because in EBI 6, no one can control roost him for any amount of time

in overtime besides me. He's that dog who's got a super hairy back and doesn't wear a rash guard, right? Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see if Barnett can hold him in overtime. I think I'm actually going to give the win to roost him via escape time in overtime. Is it better for the tournament?

if both, I know Rustum has a background of wrestling, but for purposes of our conversation, Verdum and Barnett are MMA guys, and then you and Rustam are Jiu-Jitsu guys, let's just say. Is it better for the tournament if there's at least one UFC guy or MMA guy in the finals? I think it'll definitely be, it'll be a bigger thing if I'm in the finals with Barnett. The quintet rematch? Yeah. You know he wants that back. Yeah.

So he's definitely a bigger name, I would say, than Rostom. He's a UFC heavyweight champion. So I definitely think it'll be a bigger match. But we'll see. I have my money on Rostom, actually. People think that Barnett is like this guy who's incredibly good, which he is. But under this rule set, I think that Rostom can beat him doing a escape time. How did you just, I mean, again, I have profound respect for Josh Barnett's abilities.

How did you just go right through him like that? I think so many people are just so afraid of him that they just play a... For sure of that. They play a kind of distant game where they don't really... I'm not sure if he's going to do some crazy kind of catch wrestling move than they've ever seen before. So they're very cautious of engaging him. I was just like, this is just like any other dude. I'm just going to see how the match goes.

So I just pulled the guard, and he went over really easy. And I was like, oh, well, this is probably going to be an easy match. And then I passed his guard. And then he did a good job of trying to come up to an elbow, and he had a frame across my hips. But he had a handposted on the floor, so there was a triangle there? Was there not some crazy-ass catch wrestling guys? Yeah, Kern Jacobs.

Who's calling all y'all out? Yeah. I think he called you out, didn't he? Yeah, Curran Jacobs. What happened there? I don't know who this guy is. He's like a pretty legitimate wrestler. He wrestled at like Ohio State or Iowa State or something.

One of those credentials. Like AJ Akeza. Yeah, except for AJ didn't actually wrestle. He just sat on the bench at Ohio. All right. But Curran actually did pretty well. And he's like a combat or not a combat, catch wrestling world champion apparently.

So I challenged Jiu-Jitsu guys I wanted to do a take-down match essentially with Jiu-J-Gy-Gy-Gy-Gy-Gy-Gy-Gy-C-Rules So ADCCC-RULs are different than wrestling rules so there's no... You can put a guy down

and they turtle there's no score where in wrestling there's a score. So I wanted to put him... I want to do a take-down match with Jiu-Jitsu guys under that rule set and then Kurn Jacobs comes out of nowhere he's like, I want to do this match, blah, blah, blah, blah, we should have this match.

And I'm like, okay, man, like, I'll have the matches to you, get someone to get a promoted, organize it, get them to pay us, and we'll have the match. He's like, okay, and then he, like, messaged me a few times. He said he's going to do it, and then I haven't heard from him since. Weird. I mean, I'll compete against anyone, as long as I'm getting money for it. It doesn't really matter to me.

I don't have, I mean, I'm confident I'll beat anyone. If a blue belt wants to challenge me for $10,000, we'll have a $10,000 match. It doesn't really... You're like Mayweather. Sure, I'll take on these challenges. I just believe on that much better than everybody. Like, I don't, I'm not afraid of losing to someone who, who's fleshed with me because I just think that I'm going to submit everybody.

Who's the best Nogi grappler not named you? Vinny and didn't Felipe Pena give you some trouble too? Yeah, I would say Felipe Pena. He's good at everything, but he has one thing that he does better than almost anybody else in the world, and that's chasing the back. If there's one skill that you should be good at a jih Tzu, it's chasing the back. He has a way of getting to people's backs, which is not like many others. he takes the back from anywhere. So he's definitely up there.

He's the only guy right now to have beat me twice without me beating him. So he beat me once two years, two and a half years ago maybe, and then once the last ADCC a year and a half ago. By the way, how did that quintet thing happen where it was like, here are the teams and then someone got injured like, and here's Gordon Ryan? I'm like, all of y'all are in trouble now. How did that happen?

Yeah, so Dustin Akbar actually, from... Team Alpha Mail, right? Team Alpha Mail. Yeah. He was, like, always been a friend of mine, and... He's good, too. Yeah, he's very good. He was trying to get me on the team initially, but Erya, like, some other guy in charge of getting the team together.

So the team was filled, but then one guy got hurt, like, a week before, and Dustin's, like, we need to have Gordon. So they called me, like, a week before the event was going to happen, and, like, do you want to do this for, like, Team Alpha Mail? And I was like, yeah, I want to do it. So they flew us out, and the event happened. And then he just smoked everybody. That was crazy. That was the plan. Now, you said you would rather train MMA than in the Ghee, huh?

Yeah. So what are you thinking for 2019? Gary's doing well over at one. Yeah, yeah, he's killing it. So, like I said, and I know people are going to hate on me for this, but I don't really care. It's my career. Gee is just not as exciting for me. I don't want to invest time in something that's not as fun as MMA, which is my ultimate goal.

My ultimate goal is always to be the best in MMA, not to be the best in grappling. So I'm basically just going to keep doing some mission grappling matches. I have some big things coming up. I have the Joao Rocha match for Kasai. I have the Redoum match. And then I'm doing something in August, which is going to be enormous, but I can't announce it yet. In jujitsu.

In jujitsu, yeah. And then ADCC in September. So I'm just going to keep training MMA. And whenever John thinks I'm ready to fight, he, I'm going to have my first fight. He doesn't want me to take my first match until I'm like on John Jones's level, he says. So hopefully it'll just take me 10 years to actually have a debut. So how, where, okay, where do you think you are relative to the John Jones level?

I'm terrible right now. I'm getting better, definitely. I feel like I can go in and beat, like, low-level guys for sure. Because Gary barely uses, I mean, he uses his jiu-jitsu, but his striking looks pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel like I can go out and I feel like I can beat mid-level guys, but I don't want to beat mid-level guys. I want to beat, like, world champion, you know, level athletes. So I've only been doing it for two months, like, seriously.

But I feel like I'm getting there and getting better every day. Striking is coming along. Shootbox is coming along. So it's just trying to learn something new every day. Jesus Christ, man. You got a lot going on. You know what the one thing about your beef says? As an observer, it's like fun for me.

Because every time it's like, I look at the top of my Instagram, I'm like, he's got another story. It's always something. It's always something. So right now it's Galvan for 300K. It doesn't sound like it's going to happen. No, it's got out for charity. For charity.

Well, it was initially for money. It was initially for money because he said the crown is mine and I am the real king. And that's just like a passive, regressive way to be like, yeah, fuck Gordon. Oh, I see. So I was like, listen. Oh, because you're a king, right? Yeah. So I was like, listen, like, put up $50,000 of your own money, and I'll put up $50,000

and the winner will take $100,000. And he's like, oh, I'm a millionaire, I don't need the money, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, listen, we could do $100K. That's like way more than you've ever been paid for a grappling match. And if you beat me, you get $100K. And he's like, I'm a millionaire, I don't need the money, blah, blah, all this, like beating you won't add to my legacy. I'm like, well, it will, but okay, fine.

fine. So then I was like, listen, if you don't want to do that, like, if you don't care about the money, the money really doesn't matter to you, and you think that beating me won't do anything for your legacy, let's do for charity. Let's donate to a charity. We'll sell pay-per-views for like $25, $30, and whoever watches will take all that revenue and we'll give it the charity or give it to building a school near your hometown in Brazil, building a children's hospital, something like that. And yeah, just no response. Yeah, and then you have this new one with Cairo. Is it Tara or Teha? I can never tell with these Brazilian names. I don't speak Portuguese.

That weren't. Me neither. All right. He was bitter at you about the leg in, not leg we've passed, but leg pummeling. Leg pummeling, yes. And so this, I got to tell you, it seems like insider baseball a little bit here. So I was like, yeah, I was like. It's a little hard to follow all these beefs, man. I know.

I just did, I just did an instructional BJJ Fanatics. I saw it with Bernard O'Faria. Yeah, with Bernard Opharia. He's a great guy. And yeah, he is. And he was, like, posting. he made a post about the passing trying to promote it. Oh, like he's been doing this forever or something, right?

Yeah, he's like, it's like a new guard passing system that Gordon invented. And Kyle Tara comes on, he's like, L.O.L. He didn't invent leg pommeling. I've been doing this for years. I have competition footage of this. And I'm just like, okay, like, obviously I didn't invent leg pommeling. So I just went off on him and I was like, you don't have a system of anything besides whining about everything and being a little dwarf.

So I just like attacked him online. And I've just been attacking him ever since because he started it. And then he, like, challenge me to a match. Then I was like, okay, let's have the match. Then he's like, no, I don't want to have the match. So I don't know what the deals with that. I'm pretty much over now. I told him, I would compete against him for $250,000,

which he agreed to. And then I direct message him. He's like, I'm not doing that. And I told him I would let him start in a fully extended arm bar during the match. I saw that, yeah. He's like, let's do it in the geek. I was like, okay, $250,000, $10 minutes. I beat the GF rules.

And you can start in a fully extended arm bar. He's like, no, I don't want to do that. I'm like, okay, dude, I don't know what to tell you. Dude, you know what you're like? Do you know Deonté Wilder? He just fought Tyson Fury. You ever seen that fan who was trolling him and he invited the motherfucker up to the gym and then just destroyed him?

Oh, really? You're like the guy who shows up to the gym, only you beat Deontay Wilder. That's the guy I'm trying to be. You know, it's amazing because you're willing to just be like, okay, let's do it. Let's put our money where our mouth is. Yeah, I just want to compete against the best guys. That's so hard. everyone's like, you don't deserve a shot. I'm like, I won everything. What got, what do you guys talking about?

You're going to be perfect for MMA, dude. I love Gary. I've interviewed him a number of times. He's a super smart, kind guy. Obviously, he's been a great mentor for you. But, you know, this modern era of MMA, he's, I'm not saying he's not a shit talker. You might know him better than me. But you're, this thing you're doing as you move to MMA, you know as well as I do, the people who love you are going to do it, love everything you do. Yeah. And your haters are going to, can't wait to see you get knocked out. Not saying it's going to happen, but that's what they're going to be hoping. Of course. Of course. And this antagonism will do you quite well in Mixed Mortual Arts, my friend. I've been in this game a while. I've never seen anyone quite like you in Jiu-Jitsu.

Yeah, I just got to get better like shit talking like on the spot. Like I'm pretty good over the internet because I can't like think about things and like look up stuff. But like on the spot I have to like practice it. Yeah. Well, you know what? I can't wait. So February 22nd. It's going to be in L.A., right?

Yeah. It's supposed to be in Mexico. It was a pay-per-view. Now it's going to be on Fight Pass. Yeah. I'm telling you, man, one the most exciting guys on all of grappling, either on Instagram or not on Instagram. I can't wait. So it's you versus Verdume, Barnett, and then all the winners meet, yeah? Yeah. So me versus Redume, and then the winner of Barnett versus Rustum.

If folks want more of your social media antagonism, where do they get it? So on Facebook, it's Gordon Ryan, and on Instagram, it's Gordon loves Jiu-Jitsu. Gordon loves Jiu-Jitsu. By the way, your brother's very good, too, right? Yes. Is he black belt yet? No, he's a purple belt. You can't get a brown belt until 18, and the black belt until 19. He's only 17. Let's be real. He's kind of a black belt. Yeah, he's black belt level for sure. Is he going to be better than you? I don't know. That's why I'm trying to get out of the mission grappling and go into MMA before he gets really good. But he should be. The generation after me should always be better.

But yeah, he's like a little freak. I hate training with him. It's miserable. He's amazing to watch. Nicky Ryan's a great guy. Hey, man, this has been a real treat for me. I'm a big fan. Absolutely. Thank you so much. And I can't wait to see what you got going on. You got a lot of targets on your back. That's a lot of work, man. But do you seem up for it? Best of luck. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. My man, Joel's going to hear he's going to walk you out. All right. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you, fight pass. Thank you, ladies.

Whatever it is that you do, I can't see you, but thank you so much for coming through. All right, there he goes. Gordon Ryan. I'm telling you guys, if you're not watching him, I don't know what you're doing. Most exciting guy in all of, in sport, Jiu-Jitsu, and I'm going to make his way over to M&A here pretty soon. Our show clock is so effed at this point. I don't even know what to do.

We got like eight minutes for the sound off. I don't know. I don't know what to say. here. We're going to try and get it done here. They're going to give him some stuff as he walks out the building. We're going to try and squeeze one in. I'm going to, here's what I'm going to guess, Joel. I'm going to guess. I called you Joel. Why am I doing that? I don't know. Your name is Joe, and I know it's Joe. I've been knowing it's Joe for five years. Here's what they're going to do. I think Sehudo might be late. I don't know why I'm saying that, but I have a hunch because they

often are on days like this. We have to do all these calls at once. You know what I'm talking about? like all the cattle calls. So, all right, do we want to do sound off with the time we have? Because I think Henry's going to be late. I don't know that he's going to be late. I'm just making things up, but I have a hunch. All right, let's do it now. Well, what time we have remaining?

We'll go through these quickly. It's time for the sound off. All right, let's do it now. My man in the back, he's the ahi to my empanada. He is so many things in my life. I can't see him now. There he is. We don't have much time, so let's burn through these, dog.

What do you got? We don't. We don't. Let's start with, you know, T.J. Delishaw is fighting. So who does this weekend? So let's get right in. Let's do it. Hey, Luke, it's Bryce Collin from Coast M.A. I'm sure you've been following all the social media that's been going over the last two weeks about T.J. Delishaw and his weight cut.

The man looks absolutely bone dry. He looks like my grandmother's roast beef on an ounce of fat on them. Where is T.J. T. Telashaw going to cut the weight from, and are you concerned that he might not actually be able to make weight this weekend? All right, boys, cheers. Yeah, I'm not one of these guys who doesn't think he I don't think he's going to miss weight I suspect as a pro he'll make it But Smugie on Twitter said he looked like the machinist Do you ever seen the movie The Machinist?

Yeah, yeah, with Christian Bail Yeah, that's a great actor by the way I gotta say I'm willing to see this process out Because the trains left the station anyway But if there is any hint of performance drop-off And I suspect there will be come fight time Then this is the last time we need to do this Yeah

Look, knock on wood I wish T.J. Dillard the best I hope he makes weight but, you know, I have my doubts. I am one of those guys, as you mentioned. You know, the UFC did book Joseph Benavitas to fight on that card in a fly-way matchup. So, I mean, you got your backup right there. So that right there just sends me signals that maybe, you know,

they're not too confident. And, you know, that makes me not too confident on him. But, I mean, hopefully he does make the way because I really want to see that fight. But, man, he is looking very dried and... Not optimal. Yeah, not optimal at all. So, you know, hopefully he makes it and he makes it safely as well.

You know, that's the big part. Next. Yeah. You see an ESPN tomorrow. I'm calling in wondering about the new ESPN deal. What do you guys think is the biggest key for this ESPN UFC deal to be successful? I think the biggest thing for them is keeping title fights on ESPN. We obviously saw them start off the Fox deal with the Kane JDS fight.

I believe, and now they're starting off with the Sehudo Dillash fight. I think at least having a title fight a year would be huge. for this deal, keeping the UFC live and invigorated on ESPN. Thanks. So what's the key here to being on ESPN? You know, what should the UFC do differently? So all those things are talking about, you know, like they have what they've been doing for Lomachenko, right? He comes on after the Heisman presentation.

So you've got a big audience that leads right into it. I think that's great. You know, continuous visibility with programming. That's great. Here's what I'm going to say, something that they're not talking about here. I think that the other news shows and the other talk shows and sports center just need to make it a constant presence. Let's not worry so much about the broadcast of the events.

I think they've got that on luck. What I want to see is talk in rotation in the ESPN universe. Yeah, I agree with you. Also, I think something important since, you know, this is more of a sports audience rather than, you know, Fox Sports, right? And, you know, everybody that's watching ESPN is used to sort of an order, right? It's order with whether it's football, whatever it is, you know. I think by the UFC

not following too much their rankings and not really following the order that we're used to seeing, I think that causes confusion in the fan base and it's a hard... It makes it a hard sport to follow sometimes because you're like, wait, but I thought this guy was next, but then this guy's getting a tattoo shot. So I think something key

to cater to that, like more of a sports audience is, you know, honor the rankings and sort of have an order and make it easier for fans to follow. Oh, you know they're not going to do that. I mean, you're right. You're right. You're right, They're not going to do that. Yeah. Boy can dream.

Yeah. Yeah, why not? So let's talk about your favorite boxing fantasy matchup. All right. Oh, good Lord. Hey, guys. Cory on the Bermiton, Albert, and so I don't have so much about a question as I do a prediction. And my prediction is, I believe we're going to see Conradiger based Polly Maljanagi.

Malgenaji. They have a year. The United States is based on the new rumor that's going around that, that Connor's in negotiating for boxing that sense, and that Connor recently posted that video between him and Bali. Anyhow, let me know your thoughts. Thanks. I'll be sure guys.

First of all, I wouldn't mind seeing this at all, and I could not have a 180 on this. Yeah. I actually, it's not that I need to see it. I don't want to see it. I'm not like requesting it in that sense, but like... I thought that was your favorite boxing match. Here's the thing.

Before I used to hate it, but here's the point I'm making now. I don't know what Connor's commitment level to MMA. I'm not saying it's not good. I'm not saying it is good. I'm saying it's unclear to me. Yeah. Exactly. And his coach has made some interesting comments that, again, I don't want to read too much into it, but there does appear to be some kind of disconnect there, whatever that is. Not saying it's not reputable. Again, I'm not making too many claims other than I'm saying, I'm pretty sure he's not 100% all in. I think that's probably fair to say. And if he goes and he's not part of the title picture, then I don't really care anymore. I mean, I want to see him

fight in a man. Don't get me wrong. But if he doesn't want to force him, you want to go fight Paulie and make a bunch of money, fine. Yeah. Here's the only thing I don't really know. It doesn't really benefit him to fight Pauli unless he's certain he's going to whoop him, which folks probably think he will. But if you lose to Pauli Malaggi, bro, that would be devastating for him. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, because it's not like losing to Mayweather or the goat. Yeah, who cares. Yeah. You're losing to a retired fighter. And I'm not throwing shade to, you know, Polly. Oh, he retired. Yeah.

He was a good boxer in his day. He was a good boxer, yeah. But he's retired. Hey, but I'm all, I'm down for that fight. And I've been down for like a while. I remember when, like, the whole Mayweather McGregor build up, and I was like, I told you guys, I think I said on the beat, I'm like, yo, I'm down for Connor versus Polly, and you guys have roasted me for it. Hey, look, I think it'd be an entertaining thing, an entertaining lead-up. And I actually think it would be a better fight than the Mayweather one.

Don't you think? It'd be more competitive. Yeah. For sure. So, yeah. Now let's talk about John Jones. I. Hi.

Hi, this is Adrian from Stockholm, Sweden. John Jones post-fied drug tests came back negative. So I've heard people interpret these results. as a proof of his innocence or a source of closure on the UFC 232 mess. I find these clean results confusing at best. The main argument from the UFC and John Jones for why he should be eligible to fight or that the substances found in his body were remnants from previous intake and that his substances could linger in his body for years, if not forever.

Correct. Now all of a sudden, no picograms, no nothing. Right. Wouldn't it have been more reassuring if the tests actually came back positive? No. Doesn't this debunk their whole argumentation? No. Watch of you on this. Okay.

So this is... Hold on one second. I'm going to get... This is all you. I'm getting Henry right now. All right. We can come back to this depending on how the interview goes. Yep.

All right. Very quickly, the answer to that is whenever he gets tested, they test for a bunch of different metabolites. Short term, medium term, and long term. Right? So if only the long term ones are showing up in these short windows, it must be. that's some kind of remnant. In least that's the theory. The reason why it wouldn't be confusing if it should have this time is because it doesn't uniformly shows up. If you look at all the previous test results, sometimes it's there in little amounts, sometimes slightly more amounts,

sometimes not at all. In fact, most of the time, not at all. And they believe it's this pulsing effect. So, no, it wouldn't be, according to their own theory, uniform, that it would be there. It might come back, and that might make things kind of complicated. But a better scenario, a clearer scenario, is no Turinibol, not Turinibal at times. Here's what I would say, though. They don't really know. They don't really have a strong understanding of oral turinable. I have made this point about a million times about anti-doping authorities.

There are some aspects of the science in which they are fairly ironclad, well-tested, and well-documented. There are a tonne where there is not. And that's a particular true statement as we deal with excretion windows, whether it's meldonium, marijuana, or now oral terenobol, and that is not the only list. They simply don't know. They simply don't know. And so there you go. All right.

Let us jump now to the champ. He is here. I mean, this is incredible. He takes on T.J. Dilleshaw on ESPN Plus, the main event this weekend. He's the flyaway champ, the one and only. Henry Sehudo is here. Hi, Henry. How are you?

Hey, how you doing? Feeling good, feeling great. Enjoying New York. And I'm excited for Saturday. night. Man, I got to tell you, Henry, I saw the picture. I think he was either you or Eric posted your coach. Bro, you're looking swole out here. What happened? I'm showing you guys what the true, what a true flightway looks like, not depleted, nice and strong. That's getting ready to take over the world. But a lot of that, I would, I would give credit to my

neuroscience team, Neuroforce One. Everything that I do is all based on technology and science. And I have never felt, so I got the age of 31 MM, I feel like I'm in my prime baby. You know what I... You know what I... Sorry, I mean to cut you off. I was saying I went back and watched a bunch of your fights and I noticed your physique development. It definitely was strong in the last fight, but it appears you took even another gear up from that one. Do you feel even better than you did heading in to the Demetrius Johnson rematch?

I do. I do. This is the best ship of my life. I've, uh, I don't know, I, I, I, this is, this is, this is, this is how serious I'm taking this fight. Like, I'm, uh, I've done everything right. I've done it with my nutrition, with my recovery, with my sleep. I mean, everything, everything, everything, I mean, I've never had so much, I've never felt so strong for my life, Luke. And I'm, I'm looking to display that on Saturday night. Man, I can't wait. Now, are you, without getting too much into the details, are you lifting weights? Or, like, What accounts for what appears to be, yes, you don't have a ton of fat on you.

But it does appear, Henry, like you've added some musculature. Yeah, you know, and a lot of that is like weight resistance. I think what we're doing different is it's in a lot of body mobility, a lot of almost like therapy type workout that if I was to kind of give the analysis. I'm using a lot of different, I'm using a lot of different machines that are, you know, I'm doing like high stem. So when I do do resistance weight training, you know, I have these, like, I have these technologies that are on there that are helping me push, helping me get stronger throughout

as I'm doing it. So there's a lot of it's the new age of training, man. I'm trying to, you know, I do a lot of that stuff and I show a lot of stuff on my social media. And, and that's that. I mean, like I said, I would credit my science team at Neuroforce One. they're doing a phenomenal job, and I think I'm, I'm able to, you know, when I take a picture, I'm able to show the world that.

You know, what's amazing is DJ Dilleshaw, I think he's going to make weight. I think he's a pro. I think when he says he's going to do something he does. But, man, those pictures are not reassuring. What do you make of his physique? Obviously, he's in, you know, he's not fat or anything, but I don't, it's just, it's a little off-putting, if I could be honest. Personally, I think he looks like pee-wee-herman, if you're to ask me.

In what way? In the physique way. I feel like it looks like Pee, I really do feel like he looks like Pee-W-Herman. Did you think he was going to look like this? I thought he'd have a little more bulk to him, but I guess not. He's not looking so well. It looks like he needs a couple, a cup of water. Do you think he's going to make weight?

Are you worried at all? it looks like a cross-country runner. Yeah, that's actually a good point. He does. Pretty slender. Are you worried he's going to not make weight? Whether he makes it or not, we're fighting Saturday night, so he can do whatever he wants to do.

Anybody can say he could make weight, Luke. If you've ever cut weight, I know what it feels like to make that weight. Any true flyweight knows exactly what it feels like to cut an extra 10 pounds. He's going to fill a, he's going to feel, He's going to feel it Saturday night, and I'm looking to expose him.

What do you mean he's going to feel it? Like, are you saying, like, you're definitely going to be fighting a diminished version of what he normally is? Yes. 100%. Do you think that's going to affect things like, okay, when we think about weight cuts,

we think about what, like cardio, right? That's one thing that we commonly think of. But one thing that doesn't get talked about enough is something's like, or body shots, do you expect that would be relative to what he is at Bansomweight somewhat compromised? All that's going to be on the menu. All of that. All that.

Everything that you just said is all going to be on the menu. You guys tune in. Now, what's going to happen with Flyweight after this fight? Let's assume you win. What happens next? The Flyweight division is going to be resurrected. That's what's going to happen Saturday night. It's, think about it, Luke.

Think about this is the perfect story. We're fighting the inaugural ESPN plus fight card. ESPN at Flyweight, Enniscus who's going to defend it. He's going to beat T.J. Johnson. I mean, I'm sorry. He's going to beat T.J. Dillishaw. And then the Flywood Divans to get resurrected again. I mean, this is a key, this is like a little wedding port.

You kidding me? That's hilarious. going nowhere, man. This thing, this thing ain't going nowhere, and T.J. Dillashar is going to be my victim, and I love it. Now, what's interesting is, I certainly hope you're right. I hope they get this chance to stick around, and it sounds like they might. Has the UFC told you anything?

They have not told me anything, but I'm going to tell them Saturday night. It sounds like if the fly weights, like you and Benavides and whoever else is there does well, that they'll keep it around. Is that what you believe? I do. I'll be quite honest. I don't know what the U.S.C. is thinking. I don't know how they think. You know, sometimes when you think something shiny and gold tends to be rusted and bronze, but that's just the way it is. But I'm going to do mine. I'm going to fight for my division. I'm going to beat this dude up Saturday night. And the flywood division and go nowhere.

That's all I can tell you. That's an interesting thing. A lot of times when I interview fighters, Henry, they say, I'm fighting for this. I'm fighting for that. They rarely say I'm fighting for. division, but every time I talk to a flyweight, Henry, they got a chip on their shoulder about this. Oh, absolutely. I hope every, I hope every flywood's on my back. I hope, and I can feel it that everybody's going to be cheering for me.

So this is, this is a fight where I'm fighting for a division for the sake of a division, for the sake of a lot of families out there. And, and that's it. That's just, it's going to be a perfect Cinderella story. And I want to thank T.J. Dillishaw for a lot. me to do that and I want to thank my uncle Dana White for giving me the publicity. Let's talk about a few more things with this fight.

When you assess the biggest threat that T.J. Dilleshaw poses, what is it? It's his commitment, his ability to commit to whatever he does. But it's also his biggest strength, but it's also his biggest weakness. And I'm going to expose that come Saturday night.

Don't blink, don't change the channel. Henderson, who's going to stop this dude. How do you feel about fighting on the first ESPN card. Do you feel like the UFC is finally recognizing you as a promotional talent? I think so. I think they're starting to, I think I'm tri-lingual. I speak both English, Spanish, and Portuguese.

I mean, I can salsa dance. I can hip-hop dance. I mean, I can do it all. At the end of the day, it's them giving me the opportunity and me shining and doing what I do best. And I got to be knocking and cutting the head off the snake for good Saturday. night. I got to tell you, Henry, I don't think I've ever spoken to you when you're this motivated. You sound, you sound locked in. I'm locked in, cocked in, whatever you want to call it. I'm, uh, this who's going to get it. This who's going to get it. He's messing with my division.

He's trying to take my belt. He's trying to snatch my dream. He's your deal so it's going to be my perfect example. Now, you've had in the past, no, not the recent past, but the past past, You've had some of your own weight-cutting difficulties, as I mentioned. It hasn't happened in a while. But we're circling back to the beginning of the conversation. You have added some muscle. So what have you done to iron that part out of your prep so it's not a concern anymore? Well, it's a mixture of everything.

It's a mixture of nutrition. It's a mixture of doing the right strength training. It's a recovery thing. Like, it's everything. Like, I'm 31 now. I'm smarter about what I do. I can't do the things that I was doing when I was 21, 18 years old. And I think that's where a lot of fighters are making a lot of mistake.

It's almost like less is more. Less is more, but it's got to be, but the less has got to be really, really high quality training. By the way, last thing on this, when you hear T.J. Dilleshaw talk about how Max Holloway would be a great challenge for him. What do you make of that? I think he's ridiculous. I think I think that way could have really taken a tool on. And that's what I think. He can't think straight.

Maybe so. Henry, I got to tell you, man, I am, I am, you have, I mean, I was all in before. Don't misunderstand me. But I'm all, all, all in now. I really cannot wait for Saturday. I do think TJ's a professional. He's going to bring it. I know you're a professional.

You're going to bring it. It'll be on ESPN Plus, the inaugural event. This is going to be great, man. Thank you so much for your time. And I can't wait to see it. Yeah, but look, look, before we. ended here. Okay.

Is this a paper interview? Is this a, or are we live on radio here? We are live on the internet. Oh, okay, okay. Why? I just want to let you know that a lot of people are talking about, oh, I'm the champ, champ, champ. I got two bells, blah, blah, blah.

I just want to let you guys know that T.J. is fighting the champ champ. He's fighting the Olympic champ and the current U.S. Flyway champ that beat the. greatest fighter of all time. And I'm the champ, champ. Just, I'm the true definition of champion. I'm Olympic champ, UFC champ. I'm one of one.

Nobody in the UFC could ever say that. Nobody in the history of the history of the world could ever say that. I'm the true champ champ. I want you to put this title, the real champ champ, champ, Henry Sehudo, one of one. I can't argue with that. One of the most decorated combative athletes that we have. Henry, you don't need good luck, but best of it anyway,

for Saturday. I'll be there. Can't wait to see it. Thank you for your time. All right. Thank you, Lou. I appreciate you. You have a good day. You too, Henry. There he is. Look at that. How about that guy? Huh? Wow. Just gasoline on that guy, man. Just full of vinegar and piss in a good way. Amazing. Amazing. All right, let's do this. We have just a few minutes left. We didn't get a whole chance to do a long sound off. Let's get back to it. Back to my man here. Danny Segura. Damn, did you look at him super prepared, I see?

I can't hear you. They cannot hear you. Turn your mic on. There we go. Can you hear me now? I'm always prepared. Did you hear how motivated he was? Yeah, yeah.

Bro, when was the last time you heard him that motivated? I've seen him on Fight Weeks and he had Cotton Mouth and everything. Yeah. That's time. He looked great. Or sounded great anyway. Yeah, yeah, I know. He's super motivated.

And I think he knows, like, you know, the Flywood Division, I think, you know, a lot of people saying it's going to go away. but I think the futures aren't certain on that, depending on what happens on Saturday night. I think they feel like they got pushed, and now they're pushing back. Yeah, yeah. I love Joe B's bit where he gets on the mic and he does the Wolf of Wall Street thing,

like, it's not going anywhere. Yeah, and Henry seems to have that same attitude. Like, I'm fighting for my division. Like, this division's staying, you know? It ain't going anywhere. I got to get uptown because I have more work to do. So let's knock out a few more of these if we can, please. And you can stitch this together for the YouTube bit at the end, right?

Okay, yeah, for sure. So you answer to the John Jones stuff. I did, yeah. Cool. Let's talk about the Nate and Habib beef. Okay. Oh, Lord. What's going on, boys?

It's Ricardo from Toronto. So we recently just seen Nate Diaz and Khabib going back and forth on Twitter, sort of reigniting their beef. Do you think we ever see that fight? And do you think Nate has the tools to neutralize Kavib's ground game and get more hard time? Thanks, guys. Love the show. I don't think we ever see that fight And I have a strong respect for Nate Diaz's guard

But I don't think it's enough to submit Habib Nirmikamatov. I think he has super elite submission defense And just doesn't put himself in vulnerable positions very often. Yeah, and we've already seen that type of fight with Rory Even Benson Henderson. He was injured against Dosanjos, but the point stands, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we've already seen those fights.

So we would know how that go, but they have besides that, They have everything. I mean, I forgot about that they were in a brawl with the whole team. I think it was at a PFL event or something. Yeah. Videos were surfacing around. Bro, Neadeez gets in these fights at jujitsu events. My man keeps it real in the stands.

Dude, Nate Diaz is real, real after, bro. Yeah. He will run up on you, son. Would you say he's a better fighter in the street than in the octagon? I'd say he's probably better fighter in the street than any other because, dude, he'll knuckle up early. Like, he doesn't, it's not a challenge for him, you know? Yeah, yeah. He goes, you know, right from the stand.

Dude, you gotta love Nate Diaz. Yeah, yeah. The buildup would be fun. Oh, it'd be amazing. It'd be amazing. Too bad. It probably won't happen. But the Twitter stuff, man, it's just, I gotta be honest.

I just don't get anything out of it anymore. I really don't. Really? Man, I mean, I know everyone else does. I still like Nate Diaz's tweet. I saw the traffic on over the weekend. People go crazy for it. I get it.

I'm not talking anyone out of it. I'm just saying, for me. Like a Debbie Downer. I know. I'm a loser. I suck. All right. Let's talk about prospects, man.

We just, Gordon Ryan was on. Dude, I cannot wait for him to get an MMA. People have no idea what's about to hit him. Yeah, yeah. And he's a big dude, man. Yeah, he's not small. Yeah, yeah. All right.

Hey, Luke, hey, Danny. This is Chuck calling from Asbury Park, New Jersey. And my question is, who do you consider to be the better prospect right now? Aaron Pico or Gary Tonin. Who? Love the show guys. And keep up the good work. Sorry, Aaron Pico or who?

Aaron Pico or Gary Tonin. Ooh, that's a tough one. Dude, I was screening this one. I'd say Aaron Pico was further along. Yeah, and he's younger, too, right? He's younger. Yeah, Pico's like, Pico's younger than me. He's like, he's like 21 or 20, something like that.

He's like 21, I think. Tonin's still very young, too. Tonin's like 26 or 27. He's about my age. Yeah, I'd probably say Pico, but at this stage, as I mentioned with Henry Sohudo, like, you look at all those stats that T.J. Dill Show has, and they're amazing. He's earned all of them through incredible accomplishment. But I also think he's had more time to develop his game into the mature stage that it's in.

and I think Henry Suhudo has sort of more recently hit that so he hasn't compiled, I think, either his best victories or his best efforts yet, either statistically or otherwise. And so, you know, who's the better prospect between Pico and Tonin? They're so early in their development, it is very hard to say. Yeah, yeah, they're both great. That's the real answer. We got time for one more?

Yeah, let's do it. Okay, so what do you want? Diaz brothers in 2019 or Chef Shenko. What do the fans want? The fans are probably going to want Diaz, I'm guessing. Maybe? I don't know. Yeah, we'll see.

We'll find out on Twitter. Yeah, we'll get murdered anyway. Phoenix, Arizona. Question is, Nate Diaz, you see him coming back in 2019 or retiring? Same one goes for Nick. Thank you so much for the question. Have a good one. I feel like we go through this every single year.

Yeah, every year. Well, no, it used to be every six weeks. Now it's like every six months. If I had to bet, if I was a betting, man in the ESPN era, they're going to want Diaz back. I just have a strong feeling that that's going to happen. Both Diaz is. I think it's very likely Nate Diaz fights in 2019.

Nick Diaz, I couldn't tell you. I honestly don't know. Yeah, I agree. Plus, like, you know, we know now that Diaz is willing to come back for the right fight. And, you know, that was Dustin Poria and then, you know, Poria got injured. But he was down to scrap. He was ready. So, you know, I think he's just waiting for the perfect opportunity.

And I think that you'll see will accommodate that perfect opportunity and we'll give him a fight. Also, understand, you have to realize, I mean, there is one guy around Nick Diaz who reps him. His name is Matt. I won't say his last name, but he's super smart, awesome guy. Diaz has some other people around him that are literal morons. Nate's manager is a guy who is brilliant, like super brilliant. I think he's his only MMA fighter that he manages is that guy. Yeah.

So these guys, in particular, Nate, just has a really good handler. I just feel like it's time to get back in there. It's time to get, you know, not just a number. another paycheck, but there's still more left in them competitively. And they do get good advice. They can make it happen. But Nick, I'm not saying he won't come back in. I don't know, but I would love to see him back.

I just don't know. But with Nate, I think very likely he'll come back. Let's do one more of this. I've got to race up town like I have, my heels are on fire. All right. Let's talk about injuries. Let's do. You say the best question for last again?

Yeah, always. I'm just wondering, who do you think, plus more momentum if you had to pick one guy. So no sitting on the fence. In the prime of their careers, injuries derailed both King Velazquez and Dominic Cruz. But which one would you say was hurt most by their injuries that derailed their careers in the period of their prime? Thank you very much. And have a great day.

Jesus, that's a really good question. Yeah. Man, that is a great question. Damn. Look, they got me on that one. I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with Kane, because I believe that Kain Belasquez, that's right. I believe that Dominic Cruz approved,

and I think in my books he's the best bantam wait ever. T.J. Dilleshaw has the time to rewrite that. But as of now, I think Dominicruz is the best. that's bantam weight ever. Okay. I don't think King Velasquez was able to achieve that, that clearly at heavyweight. I mean, there's some people that believe he is, but it's not as clear cut as 135. Man, it's tough, though, because Kane's coming back and could maybe write a new chapter,

and poor Dominic Cruz just had another injury. So it's like, up to this point, you might be right, but when it's all said and done, maybe not, right? But it's close. That's a great question, man. Wow. Also, the book is not written on Dominic Cruz just yet. I don't want to bury him, but I'm saying he just is going to be out another year.

It's like, you know. But he's so good that, dude, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he comes back and starts shredding it. Yeah. He was ahead of his time, which is why the time off doesn't hurt him as badly. Right, right, right, yeah. All right, man. Well, I'm sorry, we had to stitch things together again, but you know how it goes, bro. We have to work on the fly here with what we've got.

Yeah, yeah. We got a bunch of switches last minute. You know, what we hit, dude, Gordon Ryan, I'm so pumped for that. I cannot even tell you. There'll be February 22nd on, let's see, a UFC fight pass. and, of course, this weekend's event, Henry Suhito, you can catch him on ESPN. Thank you, Danny. Appreciate it, buddy.

We'll check in next week with you. Keep those calls coming. 844-866-24-6-8. You can email us, The MMA Hour at Voxmedia.com if you're international. And the tweets, hashtag the MMA hour. Until next time, stay frosty, donks.