MMA Fighting - Anthony Joshua vs. Francis Ngannou Post-Fight Show | Reacting To Joshua's Devastating Knockout Of Ngannou

Episode Date: March 9, 2024

Anthony Joshua scored one for boxing over Francis Ngannou, and he did it in violent fashion. On Friday, Joshua faced Ngannou in a 10-round boxing match in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, with a possible shot at the undisputed heavyweight on the line. Despite his limited boxing experience, Ngannou's impressive performance against Tyson Fury in his professional boxing debut had many wondering if "The Predator" was simply not bound by conventional thought, and might author an upset victory to shock the boxing purists out there. Unfortunately for him though, Joshua did not get the memo. Joshua demolished Ngannou with relative ease, dropping the lineal MMA champion in the first round, before dropping him again in the second and then finishing the fight with one of the most brutal knockouts you'll ever see. Was Ngannou overhyped to begin with? Where does he go from here? Was this a win for the PFL? All this an more is discussed as the MMA Fighting crew reacts to the massive KO. Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Eric Jackman: @NewYorkRic Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix Colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Yeah, hey, buddy.

Woo! That's right, ladies and gentlemen. It is the Anthony Joshua Francis and Ghanu Post Show. those are the victory horns you're hearing and they sound not for francis incanu unfortunately they sound for anthony joshua who gets a i mean maybe the the best win not meritocracy wise but the most impressive knockout you'll ever see in the second round and we're here to talk about it ladies gentlemen how's it going i'm jem miss you i'm not mike heck mike heck has been being a trooper for us all day.

He was doing the live watch party. He gets to, you know, rest up because they got another watch party tomorrow. So you got me. You got, I'm joined by Eric Jackman, you know, one of our esteemed boxing lovers here at MMA fighting. Accurate. I'm joined by, I'm joined by Mr. 3024 himself, E. Casey Leiden, still rocking the, the hoodie. It's still cold in California.

And you know who else is cold? Francis Inganu, because he got laid. out, ladies and gentlemen, the performance that many expected Francis would have against Tyson Fury, that's what we got tonight. It was not even remotely competitive, a second round knockout and three knockdowns in the fight. In the first round, Francis comes out, and honestly, the commentary team was stoked about it. He's like, hey, he looks more comfortable than he did against Fury. And then he makes the tactical decision to switch to South Paul.

and almost instantaneously, a right hand from Joshua comes right down the pipe, sits him on his ass. He gets up recovers, but I don't know if you ever really recovered, just because moving into the second round, Francis gets hit by just the cleanest pull counter your other sea. He lunges right into range, and Joshua hits him with a punch that, I mean, the fact that it didn't kill Francis is super impressive, but it might as well have because when Francis finally gets it. gets up, Joshua just runs him right over with the biggest knockout punch you'll ever see in your life.

Flatlined, fell back awkwardly, like shades of Mirko Krocott versus Gabriel Gonzaga with the knee, finally gets up, so he's okay, but Anthony Joshua makes a big statement. And Rick, let's start here. Just, did you see this coming? I don't feel like anyone saw this performance coming from Anthony Joshua. well. Most people thought he'd win. I don't think anyone thought he'd win in two rounds. Yeah, I did not see this coming. And maybe I should have. I think if I can be honest with myself, like maybe I should have. I thought if Anthony Joshua was going to win this fight, it was going to be

a relatively uneventful kind of decision. Like, I thought he was just going to be able to keep Inganu away and keep angles and outbox Francis Inganu. I also had a lot of faith in Francis and gone his chin because I've seen him take shots that I thought, yeah, he's got a solid enough chin that I'm fairly confident he's going to be able to take some of AJ's best punches. I was mistaken. And maybe I should have seen that come in because when AJ is on his game and when he is landing those shots, he's got the power. And yeah, I did not see a coming.

But I do think there will probably be some out there that said, yeah, this was obvious. I told you so. And I mean, it'll be tough to be. prove them wrong because I certainly wasn't among them. I thought Joshua would win. I had a pretty heavy position on Joshua. I also had a position on Joshua by decision because like you, I thought Francis could take the punches. And to his credit, Francis took some big ass punches, but there's not a soul alive who's taking either of the two right hands that put him down or even the right hand that put him down in the first round. I just did not anticipate sort of how quickly and, you know,

Anthony Joshua would sort of turn to aggressive. I thought he would be much more cagey. He would be at least concerned about the power of Ngano coming back. And he was respectful of it, but he was not concerned. And Francis did the things that I think you can anticipate from him in a situation like this. Because for as impressive as the fear of performance was, and I do want to talk about that, because what happened tonight does not take away what happened in October. That's when they fought right.

Like that still happened and we still need to give Francis his flowers for that. But you saw tonight what were you expected to see against Fury. We saw a dude who has not been boxing his entire life. And the pull counter that hits him is, I'm not going to say day one stuff, but it was not like the most brilliantly set up punch. Francis just ran into the heaviest punch that AJ can land. and credit to him. I don't know how that,

I do not know how he beat the count off the second knockdown, but you're never beating the count on that third knockdown. Casey, I do want to loop you in here because, you know, we've been talking about this fight all week. What kind of what is your immediate takeaway from what happened kind of what we saw from Francis

and frankly what we saw from AJ? I, overconfidence? Overconfidence. I mean, he just, he looked, two, maybe he, he won the first minute, like the first minute of the fight.

I'm like thinking, oh, this is going to be a good fight. Francis looks great. And then I, and it was the stance switch. And like immediately I was like, I was talking to our SlackChann. I was like, whoa, has he ever gone southbound? And how's I'm writing that? He gets dropped. I'm like, oh, all right.

And then I was just like, okay. And you're right. I was, I kind of saw the fight that you guys thought. I thought if Joshua wins, it would be kind of a. a very boxing type of decision win. And I was, and I thought too, Francis had this unstoppable chin.

But man, you just can't, those are just, I don't know. I wish like the average person could just feel like just even a jab from these gentlemen. And to get like a full right hand just like, oh my God.

It's like, it was a right hand punched through him too. Like the contact is made in the, in the position here. By the end of. the punch, freaking Joshua's elbow is where Francis head is. Like he caught that as cleanly as you can on that second one. Considering the size and physicality of Anthony Joshua, there's not a human alive who's

taking that punch as clean as Francis standing up. It's just not possible. Yeah. It's just no chance. And this is actually, I am a bit worried now for Francis, his future in a sense, because, you know, there are knockouts in MMA, but usually boom, you get hit one time, you're out. he got knocked out essentially three times tonight and the third time was each one was worse and worse and worse

I mean it was I dude Francis got was out cold in the second round and wasn't in like cold cold and like that's very down for a minute too yeah down for a while after that and um I mean we can talk about you know Joshua and boxing and everything but like Francis's health I mean that was like seriously really dangerous and I hope he's okay and like actually because of this this, we might not see Francis in MMA or boxing for maybe a year. That was a very bad knock. Because it wasn't a single shot, right?

It was like he got knocked out three times essentially. I mean, but so. Well, this is this is the difference in the thing with MMA versus boxing, right? In MMA, once that first knockdown happens, it's followed to the floor and they're probably done, right? It's a TKO and then we move on. Boxing, you take the, you take the successive blows. You take the concussion and then you get up.

beat the count and you take another one and that's just kind of how that sport operates. I agree. I think this is one that could potentially take some something away from Francis, right? From just considering the age and considering the miles. Like this is not easy to absorb and I do hope he takes some time off and isn't rushed back into a potential fight. But yeah, it's unfortunate, but that is that is the fight business. Yeah.

And yeah, I can't imagine this. Is this, could anything gone worse tonight for Francis? No. Okay. This is essentially the worst outcome. Yes. Worst out. Yeah.

Pretty much. And I want to talk about kind of what comes next to me and all that stuff in a minute. But I do want to go back to sort of we were talking about this all fair. And then we said, let's save for the show. The switch to Southpaw is real dumb and was immediately punished. And I kind of want to get y'all's take because to me that just felt like, and I was live blogging for the site on it.

And when he did it, I was like, okay, you switched to South Paul and the commentary team saying, oh, look at the confidence he has. And I was like, this is too clever by half. You, you have clear, this is clearly something you wanted to do for this fight, but you don't know how to box anyway. And now you're trying to know how to box from a secondary stance. This seems like a very bad idea. And almost instantly you got punished for it. Do you guys have the same read on it? Like, where are you at, Rick, on the move to South Paul that ultimately, I think, I think,

think looking at this fight, we can all say that this would have been the outcome sooner or later, but the switch to South Paul kicked it all off because that led to the first knockdown, which changed the complexion of the whole fight. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to pretend to have known what Francis and Ganu and his team have planned a camp and whether South Paul was an important part of the game plan. But I mean, the results speak for itself, like just a catastrophic critical mistake. In a fight where you kind of like got away with certain things against Fury. due to just like the pace of that fight, the lack of activity, the fact that Fury just looked off his game.

And AJ was just a guy who I don't think you could do that against in the best of circumstances where you could just leave opportunities like that on the table. You probably want to be as tight as you possibly can. You probably want to wait for your moment and try to land that big shot and not be playing around too much. I think Casey summed it up. It just felt like he had been the distance with Fury, felt confident against top heavy-weight. boxing competition and got a little too cute and got a little too cute. And now, you know, it's easy for us to sit here and play Monday morning quarterback and say that. And then in actuality like, yeah, maybe he was successful in camp and against sparring partners out of that out of that Southpaw stance.

And, you know, it just didn't go his way. But yes, I mean, the first knockdown was the beginning of the end. From that moment on, the fight complexion was completely changed. And we saw a Joshua who smelled blood and then just close the show. And critically, Joshua did not force anything and allow Francis to lay in the punch and get himself back in. Joshua this whole week. I just wanted to say one more thing about kind of Joshua by decision being the prevalent kind of feel for a lot of this fight from the Joshua backers and things like that. It comes from just Anthony Joshua has been in the past kind of known to fight safer, right?

To not put himself in super dangerous positions. And so I think a lot of that was from that perception. but the moment he knocked down Francis Inganu, I think that completely changed. Like I think there could have been a world where Inganu doesn't make that change is boxing with him and Joshua was comfortable to kind of win a decision. But the moment Francis hit the canvas and that opening was seen that he could go back to over and over, it was done. It was done.

I agree because that was kind of my real time. And Grant, we had a minute of Francis before he got knocked down. But I was like, oh, this is shaping up how I thought Joshua was going to take. his time, he's going to get the reeds. Francis is going to start strong, he's going to fade. Maybe Joshua pieces him up and keeps hitting him more and more and we get some sort of a later stoppage. But I thought this was going well. And then the switch to South Paul, he drops him and the entire complexion is gone. It's, oh, I now know I can hit this man. I need to make sure that I don't get wild, but it was methodical, it was calculated, it was surgical after that.

And Francis, on the other side of that, to me at least, and tell me, tell me, me, Casey, if you disagree, I thought he got so much more wild after the knockdown. He was jumping in. He was swinging huge shots from the outside. And he was doing some of that anyway because he's still not a boxer. But I thought he got knocked down and felt that sense of urgency that maybe is an MMA thing. I mean, it happens in all combat sports. We see a lot in MMA when a fighter takes a shot and they feel they have to get it back immediately. he felt like he started overpressing the issue and Joshua knew we had him and just had to make it work and he did. Casey, do you agree?

Yeah, pretty much. Excuse me. I was, when he got knocked down, okay, I was thinking, granted, Francis Nagano has one heck of a poker face. He got hit hard, but he kind of played it off. So I'm thinking, okay, that just woke him up. It is like four in the morning there or three in the morning. They've probably been in that locker room for like 10 hours or something. So I was like, okay, I was trying to be, because I wanted to see a good fight no matter what, just as a fan.

But yeah, but kind of get it back. Francis got emotional and had to get it back. And that is just extremely dangerous when you just don't have the experience. And man, just, I mean, we're going to hear a lot of this for a lot, for a while, but there are levels to this. and they're just yeah that's all there are levels to this and you get punished bad and heavy high level heavyweight boxing you get punished really bad absolutely right uh-huh is ucec's not a southpaw right i'm just trying to figure out is ucec at southball i'm bad at remembering things like that yeah i don't i'm just i'm just

trying i really want to i'm really and i really want to know what do we cooper has to say Usook is a South Paul, yeah. Usoc is a Southw. So why was, that's what I thought. I thought Usook is South Paul. Why would the guy that beat this guy twice? I mean, I don't know. I was just like, did they really think that,

I just think Dewey Cooper and his camp, Dewee Cooper, Francis, they were just too freaking confident. I don't understand. Maybe, yeah. So look, to some extent, you can understand the confidence, though, right? Because one, every fighter has that sort of irrational confidence to them.

And two, Francis has been repeatedly told he can't do this. And then he goes on and has the Fury fight. And at the time I said I thought Fury obviously did not take that that seriously. That doesn't diminish Francis's accomplishment. I think in hindsight it looks both that it's a better style matchup and Fury clearly was not dialed in. But what's that matter to Francis? All Francis and his team know is, we've been told we can't do this

and we go in there and we do this now you guys are telling us we can't do it again screw you like check the receipts bro and so like you can I can understand that confidence even if it was extremely misplaced this week yeah and also probably thinking he could take AJ's best shot and turns out you can't probably thinking he can take AJ's best shot but AJ can't take mine and it turns out

you can't take AJ's best shot probably nobody can take AJ's best shot especially if it's clearly taking that shot yeah yeah Like a couple of questions about because I mean the big thing here is now where do we go from here? And I think there are several avenues I want to explore with y'all. And the first one is where does Francis go from here? Was this?

And to a lesser extent, was this a good or a bad night for PFL? Because do we think that this lost the way it happened? Does this get Francis back into a PFL cage next instead of a boxing match? And I guess let's start there, Rick. I don't know. It's hard because obviously I think we all can acknowledge right. With a win, it's boxing, right? There's no doubt.

There's just no doubt. I could see a world where all over a sudden the opportunity to run back the Fury fight opens up and you have to take that if you're Francis and Ganu. So I don't know for sure if it's back to MMA. But the chances are like very, very likely. Even if Fury were to lose to Usik, there's a rematch clause and he would probably be tied up with that for quite a bit. So if you're Francis and looking to return anytime soon-ish, then it's probably got to be MMA, right? Because it seems like at this moment, maybe a boxing fight with Deont de Wilder, but I don't know how much appetite there's going to be for this after tonight.

I think the Fury rematch is the only one that really seems like super viable that would put him back in that same level of competition and make them quite a bit of money. So, yeah, it's possible it's back to MMA, but it's also possible, like Casey said, like maybe it's time to just enjoy some of that money that you made in these first two boxing fights. Take it easy and then come back. Like, I don't know if I'm Francis and Gunnu, I need to rush back to face Hanan Ferre. Like, that'll be there. That'll be there. That's not something that I need to rush back to.

So maybe it's, maybe it's Francis sitting out on the sidelines for a little bit, counting some of that money that he made, and then kind of assessing the situation. See how Usik and Fury plays out. See, you know, when the rematch gets enacted and all those types of things. And then survey the field. I don't think he needs to make a decision now. And I think he'd be smart not to. So yeah, I don't know.

I don't think it becomes clearer, to be honest. So I agree in principle with that. Certainly he should, if I'm in Francis's corner, he should not be rushing back to fight anyone. I don't care if the Fury fight, which will not open up Fury Nusick are fighting in May. They are rematching. Fury set on the broadcast,

their rematch is booked for October. So if Fury fight would not even be, I mean, it still could be possible. You know, sometimes those things don't end up taking place. But if Fury fight is likely not possible until 2025, maybe December, probably 2025, if that were to happen. If I'm Francis team, I'm certainly saying sit out. But you did say one thing there, which I have a note on Rick. And I just kind of want to go back to you and get your opinion. And then Casey, I'll throw to you here.

Deonté Wilder, that is the fight that we have talked about. That was the fight we all thought would happen. until the AJ fight sort of fell into Francis's lap. It's the fight that has the most steam behind it or had the most steam. Does this knockout, like you said you think that maybe the appetite's diminished? I would say so, but is it diminished for you? Because personally, I have no interest in seeing that next. It's diminished because I think we got a better assessment of Francis and Gano's boxing skills.

I don't mean to be overly critical because what Francis and Gano did last year was special and I will remember it very fondly in my journey as long as I've been in combat sports it was one of the top moments but I think we got a better assessment of his boxing skills

and I'd rather see Deante Wilder fighting boxers and I'd rather see Francis and Ghanan fighting MMA fighters like that's just where I'm at now it was a great run he fought two of the best heavyweights of our era and this one I feel like gave me a better look at like, yeah, this is not, this is not Francis Inganu's future.

Casey, where are you out on the potential wilder fight? Because again, there was a ton of momentum building behind that. Certainly if he had even performed well against Joshua, I think that was on the table. For me, it's off, Rick, not interested. Are you now fully out on the two big dudes just chucking hammers at each other? If I'm wilder, I am begging to fight. Francis, basically. I am like, please fight me. If I am wilder, that is the fight he should absolutely be going for. As a fan and someone that somewhat cares about human life and Francis and Gano's

health, please do not take that fight. Take at minimum, please take a minimum nine months off. Six months for recovery, three months, just okay, let's get back in shape again. I mean, I know it's different, but it's this is almost equivalent. I don't know, just kind of equivalent to like when Matt Serr beat GSP in the sense that, you know, in a sense that when the rematch wasn't even close. And I think that's what we kind of got with Nanganu as far as a top level boxer. He had a great showing caught, caught Fury by surprise, but just reality set in. And I think one thing we just didn't account for, and this has been said,

I think Eddie Huron said this a few times, was about we have tape. We have 10 rounds of tape on Francis Nangano now. That is so vital to this right now. We know what we're getting. And we might get a better version of him, but we know what we're getting. And credit, just so much credit to Francis Nogano, I'm sorry, to Anthony Joshua and his camp for just not BSing. They came prepared and they did the thing. They really did the thing.

And no, but back to your original question, I do not want to see Francis. by a top level boxer. I want him to go back to the cage. That's what I want. It's a really good point. And one of the things that I knew about this fight, no matter what the outcome was, as I said,

I was not predicting this outcome. The one thing I did know was that Anthony Joshua was not going to take Francis Inganu lightly. And that Ben Davison is one of the best coaches in boxing. And I was fairly certain, no matter what, that Anthony Joshua was going to be prepared for him. And you said it.

Like he did not look like he took him lightly. Now granted, as I said, I did not expect this specific outcome, but I was very confident that Anthony Joshua would look better against Francis Inganu than Tyson Fury did, bar none. Like there would be no outcome I could have seen where he didn't look prepared to face Francis Inganu. And we saw the result of that hard work. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time.

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You're almost at the finish line. But first? There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. And shout out to Anthony Joshua, his team. Frankly, this could not have been better designed by Anthony Joshua, Eddie Hearn, the whole group of them. Eddie Hearn looks like just a genius.

Just a genius tonight. This is brilliant promotion. He saw a window. He said, hey, that's a guy we can beat. That's a guy people are going to care about us beating, particularly coming off the Fury fight. We're going to get it. this whole week, they've said and done all the right things.

Eddie Hearn really towed the line beautifully of, I believe that Anthony Joshua is going to show his class and beat the hell out of him, but I also am a little bit scared that maybe Francis pulls it off because, like he sold the fight and sold his fighter. And at the end of it all, AJ's sitting in there, the classiest man you could ever imagine afterwards. He's talking to Francis,

who I truly do not believe will remember the conversation he had with AJ in there. He did not seem to have it like have it together. And AJ's like, hey man, don't give up on boxing. Like there's still dudes you can beat. You're good for the sport. He talks to Francis coach, Dewey Cooper says, hey man, don't let him quit.

I'd love to contribute to his foundation and stuff like that. Class act all the way through and comes out of this smell like roses. So full shouts to our boy Anthony Joshua. Some other stuff happened on this night as well, but I don't think we care.

about any of that right boys honestly like uh jang and parker sure they had a boxing match i do want a topic this because immediately after the co-main event when jang and parker had a pretty awful fight i posted on our slack i think frances ingani could be jang in a fight like in a boxing match and i'm still not sure i'm off that take even after watching what happened in the main event uh is that a crazy take rick like i don't know i don't know this is still heavy weights that Inganu could be successful against. Like not the top tier guys. I think we know that now.

But Zhang's sort of a top tenish guy, you know? I think there's a world where the volume is, Francis Inganu, if you're going to not really box Francis Inganu to death and you're going to let him have opportunities, he's going to be in a fight against anybody because he's got the touch of death. He has that power that few people have, right? Like we're talking about how AJ landed a perfect punch and took his head off. Francis Inganu was one of the guys and like Deonté Wilder who doesn't need a perfect punch, right?

He can hit you with his wrist and just decapitate you. So if you're going to be somebody like Zhang who lets people stay in fights for a bit and isn't, you know, super active, yeah, he's going to be in that fight. And I think honestly, Deonti Wilder's another one of those, even though I've said I don't care about that matchup anymore because I don't care about Francis and Gunno versus high level boxers right now. Deonti Wilde, there's probably somebody who would leave enough openings for Francis and Gano to at least be competitive, right? So, yeah, there's a world where that's true. But at the same time, like, is that what I want from Francis and Gano's the rest of his career? Right. Like, I think there are still MMA fights for Francis and Gano that I would like to see.

And I don't think, like, potentially being in fights against, you know, the lower top 10 to top five heavyweights in boxing is where I I want to see him living, you know? New York Rick confirmed Hanan Faheda fan. I do want to talk one or two more things, but I'm a bad host. Mike Heck would have done this already. You got questions, fire him in, super chats. We'll get to those in the end, and we're coming up on the end here in just a minute. Got a couple more things that you want to go through.

And Hinnon Fahara is chief at the top of that list, Casey, because I think this knockout is going to put Francis back in the PFL for his next bout. Might not be this year. take some time off and recuperate. Hanan will clearly wait as long as he does, as long as he wants to. Does this at all increase your interest in a potential Hanan for head of fight? Because no.

If there's one thing that man could do, it'd be a big dude and punch real hard. It's the same amount of interest. We're just going to probably see it sooner, essentially. I'm not really interested. This doesn't increase your interest at all, really. Well, it increases in the sense that I'm less interested in, then gone to boxing high-level boxers.

So if you take away from that, then I guess it increases it more for the PF. I thought the PFL was the biggest winner tonight outside of Joshua. I thought PFL was the biggest winner. Yeah, yeah. I'll give it. I'll get HAL and Joshua. Okay. Yeah, a lot of money.

They're going to get KO in the year. They're going to get to fight for the undisputed title. They're the winners. Yeah. PFL is the co-winner. However that. Well played. Well, that's good.

Well, played. Well, played. Um, yeah, actually, I, I, okay, but I, I'm just not interested. Sorry, real quick. Go ahead. Do we want Francis to go, I kind of know the answer to this already, but I want to put it out there, go to Jake Paul route in the sense that I'm going to face low level journeymen guys. No, no.

No, but you understand. I'm saying, like kind of what Jake Paul just did in his last two fights. Yeah, I'm not interested in that with Jake Paul. and I'm definitely not interested in that with Francis. Okay. Just put that out there. I mean, because that is a route.

That is a route. You're seeing the real boxer route that Jake Paul has kind of said. Wow. Forgot about that. The real boxer route. I don't think that that is a thing. I don't think that like, would you consider Ryan Borland a real boxer?

Like, I know he's a boxer. I know he has a boxer act. But that's not a fight that I'm interested in. Like, that is not a, I would rather. see Francis, just uppercut a dude out of the ring. That'd be kind of cool. I just don't, I just don't care.

Jed, is what, is what you're getting at, is what you're intimating, like, that Francis looks more vulnerable and he hasn't looked that way in a long time? Is that what you're saying in terms of like, Hanon? Because to me, like, one of my first, like, my instincts were, wow, that was a horrible caho. Well, France is probably going to find the PFL that's great for them. And then it was, I'm a little. more interested in John Faheda. Like, I will still pick and believe in Francis

and Ghanu, but one, we have now seen the chin cracked. And yes, it was cracked by two perfect punches by one of the hardest hitters in heavyweight boxing that would have cracked anyone. But cracked is cracked. And the last time we saw Francis and Gano take a loss that he was not prepared for, not anticipating, was Stipe Mietich. And then his next fight out, Derek Lewis was the worst. fight you've ever seen until you watched carlo as spars a fight rose nominus again it was so he was totally gun shy and he talked about it's like yeah it kind of wasn't i i didn't really know how to react after having lost this isn't the same he's now lost before but he's never been slept yeah

and he just got holded and now he's going to go fight a six eight i mean not now maybe because again maybe this doesn't happen next maybe goes back to boxing i am legitimately now much more interested in that fight as a oh hanan can actually win this i don't think he will but i'd had i would have given him a 0.5% chance a week ago and sitting here today it's much higher than that so for me pfl came out great because i think that they now do have a compelling matchup for francis do you not agree rick i agree to an extent but isn't the point of signing francis for Francis Ingano to be that guy. Like isn't the point not for him to be in competitive fights?

Like isn't the point of we took the best heavyweight that was on the planet from the UFC for him to like starch people like that? I that would be my fear, right? Like I don't want Francis and Ganu in competitive fights because now I've just signed an expensive guy to be as good as any of the heavyweights I already had. So it's almost a double edge sword. Like yes, you get a more compelling matchup potentially. but like that's not why I just paid this guy a buttload of money is to be in a competitive fight with Henan Ferreira like I could have had another heavy way do that for one 15th the price you know it'll be interesting if Don Davis actually kind of switches the promotion on this and

kind of goes oh we're going to show you that pfl heavyweights are better than UFC heavy weights and actually they want to bring it they want Francis to lose in a way he becomes the guy on the way out there's a world the guy in the guy in the way yeah don will not say that going in If Hanan does it, he will say that coming out. He will say, look, Francine, I was a great partner and a great champion. But you guys have been out here saying GFC is much better and look at what we just did. Like, look, like, did they, he was forged in the crucible of the season. Like, and the toughest tournament in sports.

Like, and that's just good promoting. So I'm okay with it. Yep. I'm glad you brought. I'm glad you brought up the Derek Lewis. I forgot the timeline. I forgot that was after this. That was after the steep a loss, correct?

It was after. It was immediately after the steeped loss. And Francis has even come out and said, it was my first loss. I didn't really know how to react. I wasn't, I just didn't have it. I had to figure it out again. And this is the first time he's ever been knocked out in that bad of fashion. And maybe his chin does.

I assume his chin is taking a dent from this because how can it not? And again, still think he beats him on Feta. But am I crazy though that you almost, you almost, you almost don't. want it to be competitive. Am I alone? Like, am I over thinking about because I feel like the money that you invest is. But you want it to seem competitive. You sound like to be any heard. You want this fight for Francis in PFL where it's ooh, this is more interesting. People are more involved. And actually, he's going to run the hell over him. Like and I think there's very much a world with that is now in play for PFL. Obviously, if if, if Hanan comes in here and uppercuts him and Francis

is done at stuff C's for our boys. But I think they're in play in a much better way than they previously were. Can we just acknowledge that Eddie Hearn as a promoter is like God tier,

like A plus, whatever the highest possible tier S tier is like that dude is next level. His ability to talk out of both sides of his mouth and kind of make you believe both, he's just incredible. And he did it with this fight as you said many times. He said, said, AJ's going to kill him, but I'm terrified.

And you believe him in both scenarios. He's just, he's just A++. He sells it so well. His appearance on the MMA hour when he's talking to Arrow and he's like, I believe that AJ is going to put on the best performance you've ever seen. There's a piece of me that is like, I don't know. This man keeps doing the impossible. And it's just like, you hooked me.

I got one more question for you two and then we'll throw it to the peep. So peeps, firing your questions into the chat. We'll go for a little bit after this, answer your questions. and then we're out of here because we still got another big fight tomorrow. My last question of you before we hit to them, boys, over under, one and a half more boxing matches for Francis and Gano before he hangs up the gloves. Rick?

Geez, under. Under. Under. Casey? There's too much money out there. I'm going to go over the money. I don't know. I'm glad you guys went opposite because I can see both.

prior to this fight, if you had given me over under two and a half, I would have smashed the over. A loss like this, if he takes one more fight and it's against Deonté Wilder, or it's the Fury you mentioned, Fury dusts him up. I don't know what the appetite will be for him after that. There are certainly diminishing returns if this is the way you lose. So I think I'll take over just because I'm with you, Casey, there's too much money, but that's tough. Tough ass. That's why I took the under because I think if he gets one more, it's not going to go successfully.

And then that's the end of promoter saying like, yeah, we love the. The appeal of Francis Inganu is not that he's like a top heavyweight boxer. The appeal of Francis Ngano is former UFC MMA champion. Once you start to become a boxer, you're not as valuable anymore. He was a bot. He was MMA guy. Then he was, wow, guy who shocked the world and knocked down Tyson Fury and then still lost. And now he's a guy who got colded by Anthony Joshua.

He's quickly becoming just boxer. And then I think you lose the appeal if you lose one more box. I do see your logic because going back to your kind of Jake Paul logic, the more Jake Paul becomes, the more Jake Paul becomes a boxer, the less interested you are. The more you're less interested. The more you're a celebrity YouTube dude, Disney kid, then you're interested. So I feel like I. Is there though a world where Francis can pivot into influencer boxing? a different brand.

Okay. Interesting. Because not a lot of people, like, there are going to be a lot more people. Okay, okay. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I was going to say, who's signing up to fight Francis and Gano that's just like YouTube celebrity? I got two words. Two words. You got to check. I'll do it. Jed, two words. Two words, Jeff. Fight circus.

Yeah. Oh, man. That's, fight circus could have a whole hell of a lot of fun. And I hope we get there. before we fire to the peeps Francis Ngano has issued a statement he tweeted out a few minutes ago sorry I let you guys

I let you all down sad face emoji today it was a bad day in the office but tomorrow will be another day thank you for all the love and Francis he didn't let us down maybe like you've already overachieved

by just about any metric possible and yeah you took an L but it's okay you're still winning all of the games of life right now. So rest up. Yeah. Come back when you're ready.

Yeah. Before we go to the questions, I just got to reiterate that. Like, yeah, you got, you got slept bad tonight, but you, you still won. You still won. You got a giant bag. And then you got a giant bag tonight. Like the biggest bag. You know, you got it.

Yeah, you got slept. You got, you might have lost a couple years, you know, some memories. But you got the bag. And no one is hating on you for, for, for. for and chasing that greatness. And that's still in just 100% just very commendable. And he went for it. And that's what that's what happened.

This is the game. Not only did Francis Ngano obviously financially gain and win price fighting, right? We continue to reiterate like this is price fighting and the game is to make the money. And he did that. But I also think he can live without regret. Like if there was a world where these opportunities were ahead of them and he did not take them, even though he lost, even though he rolled the dice and. lost, he won't regret taking the opportunity. And so, yeah, he's done what he needed to do,

I think, which nobody can judge him for. Yeah, I mean, Francis has generational wealth. Francis, if you're ever feeling down, just remember, I will in fact box you for a 10th. I would accept a 10th of what you made to be concussed far worse than you just were. So what is that? I saw like 20 million floating out there. What is that? Yeah. I would absolutely let Francis. and Ghanu uppercut me for $2 million. And when I wake up from my coma, I'll be set. That'll be sick.

Where's my jaw? Sounds like we found our misfits influence or fight. It sounds like Jed versus Jod versus Francis is going to. I will trade years off my life for generational wealth. And if you won't, then congratulations. You're either dumb or already wealthy because those are the only two reasons you shouldn't take that deal. All right, let's go to the peeps.

Let's fire this up because this has been a long day and we've got another one coming tomorrow. Should we answer this? A lazy bed from earlier this week. If Francis wins, should he wait for the Ussic Fury? Didn't eat so hot. Didn't eat so hot. You know, let's table this for later.

We'll never know. The rematch might happen. We'll save that one. All right. I got some super chats coming in. All of a super chat. From Weidenhoff. Weidenhoff.

How do you feel about PFL's main event last night? How will I'm assuming this affect the brand? Was Goddard in the right? Eric Casey, did you guys watch PFO Europe? Yes. You know what it heard last night. Yes. Just making sure.

Yep. Eric, let's go. How did you feel? Oh, yeah, that's actually a great point. So in case you didn't watch it because I'm a bad host, I was going to not say anything about it. Cedric Dubei loses by TKO in a super weird situation. where in the middle of the third round of a competitive fight, he has a splinter or something in his foot

and he is not actively engaging. Goddard warns him. He and his opponent whose name, I cannot remember at the time, are still just staring at each other. Baki is what he goes by. Baki, he and Bacchie are staring at each other. Bacchie kind of looks at Goddard and is like,

what the hell? Dumbay looks at his feet and is like, my foot screwed up, can we fix it? And Goddard runs and is like, I told you to fight. fights over. Dubea immediately protests and a whole bunch of tom foolery ensues. But ultimate it's TK win for Bakke in a super weird situation. I don't know if I've been on air to talk about this. So I'll give my opinion a minute. But Eric, where do you come down on Goddard's reaction and sort of how this was Goddard in the right here?

Yeah. The question of was Goddard in the right? I guess I would have to say yes, right? Like I don't think he did anything that's not within the rules or not within his, you know, guidelines and what he's supposed to do. But I would ask, is there not a moment to be had for patience, right? Is there, like, the way you've described it is, is accurate. Dumbay says, hey, I've got something lodged in my foot. Goddard says, what? He says, I've got something lodged in my foot. Goddard says, keep fighting. So he's told him now to keep fighting. He has, he has issued this, this command to him. Dunebe and Baki stare at each other for a bit. Dunebe is like, man, I got something in my foot. I don't want to keep fighting like this.

And Baki's like, what am I supposed to do? He's looking around, but the part that's very important. What you're supposed to do? Well, this is the thing. The part that's important to me is they were not punching each other. They were standing still, looking at each other, and then looking at the referee. To me, nobody is in danger here, right? They are standing there and nobody is at threat of being gravely injured further if there was an injury,

which it turns out there was not. It was just an object in his foot that was uncomfortable. For an object! And nobody was, nobody was in grave danger. So at that moment, my feeling is I would hope that Mark Goddard would take a moment to assess the situation and figure out what's going on. But he rushed in, right? As soon as Cedric looked at him again, he rushed in and stopped the fight. I've seen since many things kind of laying out like within the rule book, there is no official time out for this.

So I understand what Mark Goddard is doing. but I would hope that the rules are flexible enough in that moment where nobody is in mortal peril to say, oh, okay, I understand what's going on. Your opponent is granting you the grace to get this sorted. I'm going to allow you to take the thing out of your foot and continue the fight. Like what would be the damage done in that scenario?

I hear somebody could say there's a slippery slope, you're opening the door for people calling their own timeouts. People have tried that before. And most of the time it doesn't go so well. All the time. People try to call their own timeouts all the time, and it doesn't go so hot. This was a real opportunity where nothing bad would have happened. His opponent would have gained nothing.

And we could have just sorted this out and continued what was at that point a tied, even fight and turning into a good fight. So I don't, I don't, I'm not going to blame Mark Goddard. I don't think Mark Goddard should shoulder any blame here. But I don't love the outcome and think that there needs to either be something put into the rules to reflect this, or there should be more flexibility in the rule to be able to say, yeah, we can fix this quite easily and nobody is losing an advantage here. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too.

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Yeah, Casey... Where are you at, Casey? Gauter is a good ref. He's a good ref. He effed up this situation. That's all to me. He just effed it up. It was a foreign object in the cage.

It was a foreign object in the cage. Most likely it came from someone's shoe because cameraman, corner guys, the refs are wearing shoes around the cage. So someone dragged in either a sliver of metal or whatever. It got stuck in Nube's foot. The idea that he wasn't fighting. First of all, they weren't fighting. They were kind of like it wasn't timidity or anything.

He was just running away from the fight. They were not fighting. And like, to me, it's no different. Like when sometimes, you know, fighters have a piece of tape hanging off their glove where the, hey, I got tape. And they, they pause the fight. They bring the guy, cut the tape off. And they fight continues.

Sometimes their mouthpiece falls out. It gets dirty. The ref goes, give me some water. And he gives back, and the fight continues. That's all, I don't understand what Goddor was doing. Can I mean, I agree with you. But to play devil's advocate, the argument, I believe, is, Mark Goddard in that moment can't know that Cedric Dumebe's foot isn't injured, right?

And he's potentially saying you have to fight while you're injured in that scenario. And that's the devil's advocate. Yeah, two fighters in there that speak French. And then you had a ref who did not speak French. Get a French ref in there. English is neither of those guys first language too. And that really annoyed me too. But, dude, just read the room a bit.

Read what's going on in front of you. Clearly it's not like, I don't know. I was just like, I was so frustrated. Like, just go, oh, okay. And if you can't pause the action, then it's a no contest. Because that clarity is fair. It's a no contest. I think this is going to end up being a no contest.

I really hope it does. I hope it ends up a no contest. Doombe should not be penalized. I think we all agree with that, right? Like there's no world where doombay should be penalized for this. It's not his fault. To me, this was, I'm with you, Casey. I think, I think Goddard is largely a good ref.

I think this is a clear fuck up. By the letter of the law, Mark Goddard. is correct and that is what big john popped on and said in the broadcast like yeah this how you're supposed to handle it pretty objectively it's not and i said afterwards i could swallow this a lot better if goddard's energy wasn't super weird and copy like because that's how he treated this it was a all right no keep fighting dunebe looks at him after being prompted by bachie there's like my foot and goddard's like no we're done and is almost indignant about dunebe being like no i want to keep fighting, there was there was not an attempt by Goddard at all to understand or move this

situation forward positively. It was strictly a negative enforcement action on him of fight or I'm going to stop it. And there was no, to your point, Rick, there was no danger here. I think, because ultimately what really happened there was Mark Goddard stopped the fight for timidity, basically, because they were not engaging and he blamed it on Doom Bay. He could have just stopped it, pulled him aside and like, hey, you're not competing, you have to fight, or I'm going to stop this. Like they do for timidity all the time. We see that all the time.

Yeah. Instead of doing it in real time during the fight. And then Dune could have said, I have a thing in my foot. They could have maybe found another way to this. Goddard was so quick to get this action for whatever reason that to me, it's just a real clear fuck up, especially when you factor in, like, you have to just register that this. is doom-based third language? Like, did, like, why, why are you acting as if your, like, quick bursts of conversation

in the middle of a fight to a dude not speaking his native language is like, yeah, obviously is that you could take a minute, you get a full assessment. And the thing that I really set it on is no one would have been hurt by this. If you stop that fight and say, hey, and talk to him about it. And ultimately, it turns out that, yeah, this is an injury and he can't compete. okay, it can be a TKO at that point. But if it's not, if it's something like this, you can either say we can't get that out.

There's nothing in the rules for removing the splinter. You just got to choose to fight or not. And Cedric can then make the choice to compete or not. Or if the rules would allow it, you can just kind of fly by the sea of your pants, be like, all right, give me some tweezers. We're going to pop this out and go at it. I think he found the worst line.

And even if by the letter of the law, it's okay. It's pretty clearly against the spirit of the law. and I don't know what he was thinking. Because he's a good ref, but he got this one all the way wrong, in my opinion. No, I think you said it perfectly. It was the speed with which he acted when we could have had a better outcome. Nobody was in danger. Nobody was in danger.

Cedric Dume was clearly not mortally injured. Like it was time to figure them out. They weren't punching each other. They're standing staring. They're standing and staring. There was no reason to rush in there. To your point, you can call it the same way. There can be a TKO if you give it a minute and go, yeah, that's a TKO, but it didn't need to be done

right that second. And the crazy part was like when actually got her stopped the fight, it was Baki that actually stopped fighting first. It was Baki that was telling the rest. He stopped him to call him and I still don't understand what Bokie that stopped the fight. And like, I was like, what do he? Bokki stopped the fight. It wasn't even Cetrick. I think Bacchi just respects Dunebe and was just like, I want him to have his foot. Yeah. I know. I don't disagree. I don't disagree. But in the in the, in the, having that context and that scenario, if that's happening, why rush in?

Why can't we wait? Why can't we wait one beat and figure this out? Too gentlemanly and he gets a win. Ultimately, I believe that will be overturned to a no contest. And if there's no contest, nine times out of ten, that means the ref screwed up somehow. Like that's just, there's a part of this question that says,

how will it affect the brand? And my instinct gut reaction would have been like, not really. Like, it's not PFL's fault. We all know, like, this is a commission thing. but I obviously run and manage the MMA fighting social media accounts and I pay attention to things that are going viral on social media. Every single tweet that went viral after that main event was a French person writing this would never happen in the UFC. That this was low budget PFL stuff.

And that's unfortunate because I don't believe it to be true. It has nothing to do with that. Mark Otter dresses the O.C all the time. But there are potential consequences for stuff like this for a brand, which is unfortunate. Because PFL has, I mean, maybe you could argue there's some culpability because they didn't manage the people's feet in the cage well enough. But that would be very hard to do. But yeah, there's potential damage done, unfortunately, because of this scenario. I think we can all say here, obviously PFL has no hand in this and should not be taking heat.

But I did see a lot of tweets about that. And that's unfortunate. it. It's not good for the brand. How about that? It's not good. It's not good. And a night they sold, I don't know, just called it 15,000 seats, 15,000 seats to see a PFL event. And then everyone walks out of the arena like that. It's not good for the brand. Yeah, that's the big one, Casey. It was a night that was fantastic for them. That crowd was as live as you can ever imagine. Cedric Dume's a star. And everyone's leaving, feeling real hard done by. That crowd was livid about what occurred there.

So tough night for them overall. Thanks to the super chat, Weidenhoff. We have another super chat. Also talking about the PFL, but I think it's about the PFL tonight. How does PFL feel about this outcome from Sleeto? Casey, let's start with you. We've touched on this a little bit. I think that you, because like me, I think that this is probably ultimately good for them.

I think you're on the same boat, right? publicly they're like oh tough loss internally this is great news for pfl this is just great news for pfl that's all now now the conversation is is francis going to box ever again you know versus you know is you know if he would want tonight is he ever going to fight in the pfell yeah yeah so um the conversation has changed now so and now we're talking about hen and frere you got more interested in henn and ferre so that's all so it's a great a great night for Joshua, a great night for Evie Hearn, a great night for PFL.

I agree. Rick, are you, is it three for three? I'm more tepid. I'm somewhere in between where I do agree that like internally the PFL is probably going, yes, we got our guy back. But I keep going back to my initial feeling,

which is you probably wanted his law, his first post UFC loss to be in the PFL and not to be in the boxing ring and not to have been colded like this and to be able to take advantage of his first loss and build somebody off it and not just be a continuation. Because if he now loses to Henan Ferreira, you're in dire straits with all that money you just spent on Francis and Ganu.

It's not looking great for that investment. So I believe they think they're getting their guy back and it's a win. And if it all goes perfectly as they hoped and planned, which things rarely do in MMA, then probably it will end up being good for them. But if that chaos gets introduced and he loses and now he's looking at, having gotten slept like this in boxing and potentially slept like that in MMA because I don't see another outcome

where Hanon wins, I don't think that looks so hot. I don't think that looks so good. But they have to get them back to figure that out. The alternative is he boxes forever and just never fights for them. So all things considered, it's some kind of like middle ground is my feeling.

Like it's not great for them and it's not terrible for them. Yeah, not an abject win, but they certainly gained at least something tonight. Which is his presence. Bare minimum, they get him. probably, which I think is some kind of win. What's going to be interesting. Had he won, it would have been a full loss for PFL.

It'd be hard. It'd be hard. Yeah. Yep. What's going to be interesting to me is how the PFL though is going to is going to repackage Francis Ingano now because he's up because unfortunately. There's not going to talk about this one. Huh?

There's not just talking about this. Yeah. This fight didn't happen, but the Fury fight for sure happened. Yeah. Yeah, essentially, yeah. I mean, I think you can convince enough people that that was boxing. This is MMA. I think you can very cleanly kind of make those lines, right?

You can say, hey, we've got the best MMA fighter on heavyweight MMA fighter on the planet. And you just start using that type of terminology and talking about that. How did maybe take me back in time a bit, but how did the UFC and Dana handle Connor losing to Floyd? Great effort, you know, because remember that like. The fight was so different, though. Yeah, it was just. That fight still had a ton of the Tyson Fury Francis stuff to it, too. A little bit, yeah.

It's like, oh, it was a standing TKO and people thought Connor won the first round and looked good. Floyd is the kind of boxer that the way he wins, if you don't know shit about boxing, looks like lame and like a coward or whatever. So there's like, yeah, look, he did way better than people thought. Floyd said he'd knock him on the first round. He made it 10. Also, what we have to remember is that was the one, right? That was the first one.

Not the first time an MMA fighter had ever stepped into the boxing ring, but the first time anybody of that caliber at championship level had just crossed over and fought somebody of that comparable level in boxing. So it being the first, I think there's a lot more grace, right? Now we've gotten a different part of that conversation. Plus also the most important part of that is Connor didn't fight in the UFC for like a year after it too. Because his next fight was Habib, but that didn't happen forever.

Because he beat Eddie Alvarez in 2016. He boxes Floyd in 2017 and he fights Habib in 2018 like over a year later. And it was Connor. It was Connor's back. Yeah. He did what? End of 2018, right? Like it was a while.

It was a long while. It was October. Yeah. It was October of 2018. It was a Conner's back because he had made $100 million and there was. Connor to never have to fight again. He made $100 million. And then you already.

vacated the belt and there was the whole Connor Habib thing so it was very let like the boxing thing was at side quest at that point yeah that's why I think Francis has to be gone for a while basically that's why I don't expect to see Francis just got slept yeah yeah I yeah yeah I hear the brain take some time uh since we're talking about he's sitting on all this money like the same thing you just said about Connor like you don't need what what is the rush back that believe me Hanan will be waiting there for you I promise he will he will be waiting for the biggest payday of his life, I promise.

You can do the PFL thing, like PFL Africa thing and get to do that. That'll be great. Thanks, Lito. It's great super chatting with you. Since we're talking about feelings. From Calhoun City, how is Dana White feeling tonight? A lot of sentiment of this out there. Dana White is trending on my 4U Twitter right now because it's, I clicked it and it's

everybody doing the same thing like doing a cell. libatory gift, this is Dana White right now or whatever. And I'll take the lead here because I don't think that that's true. I think Dana White is probably like happy in general because that's who he is made up of as a human being. But you're not going to get a Dana White tweet being like sucks to suck or whatever. Like it's the smiley face emoji. The smiley face.

He's been notorious for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can't dunk on Francis because the fury fight. Like if this was the fury fight and this is what happened. Dana probably would come out and say something like, yeah, this is why we said we shouldn't do this. This is a waste of time.

I'm glad he got paid or whatever, but what a useless endeavor that was. Because the fury fight happened, you kind of just can't dunk on Francis like this. So I think he's just, he watched it. He probably thinks, man, that was a savage chaos. Eat at Francis. And he's on to the next one. Yeah, I don't think he's going to revel too much in Francis losing. But what I think this is my early prediction on what the tenor will be.

when he has asked about it or something related to it in the next press conference, will be something about boxing overall. Will be something about how stupid it is that Mike Tyson and Jake Paul are fighting and Francis and Gan who is fighting AJ and just go with like the stupidity of boxing overall. I think that's the angle he will choose to take. And that the events took eight hours. So it takes them eight hours for a squash match in the main event. I think that's a great, great pick, Rick, like, because that could absolutely happen.

I don't think he's going to dunk on Francis per se. I think it's going to be more about just like boxing, being boxing and him taking that kind of angle for it. Yeah, I think that's a great call, Rick. Chase C-131, thanks also Calhoun City. Does today's results strengthen slash confirm the argument that Fury overlooked Francis or more of a styles make-fight scenario? I think it's both. I do think that Fury is a much better style for Francis because the way he wants to box is less traditional boxing.

He wants to be rough and dirty inside. He wants to use his physicality, and it's really hard to do that at Francis. I also think if you watch that Fury fight, if you watch other Fury fights, and if you watch what happened with Joshua tonight, it seems pretty clear to me that Fury was not super dialed in for the match against Francis. but I'm willing to hear other arguments, guys.

I don't think you can make another argument. I think it is very clear after tonight. Like, I don't know how you could, I don't know how you could come away with the alternative, quite frankly. Like, this is just the worst night for Fury and Francis got him. Yeah. I think both of these are true. The style is due, I think Joshua is a tougher style.

And- It was much faster, much faster, which is tough for Francis. And then a theory. it overlooked Francis and then Joshua did not. Because he had the tape. He had 10 rounds. He had 30 minutes of fighting of boxing to look at. So a couple more super chats just because they're super chats.

We don't need a comment. Let's fire them through and then let's get out of here because we got, I've been doing this for a long time today. K. Sam, ready to be done. Early stoppage much from fatal revenge. Let Francis be a warrior. Look, I respect the super chat, but it wasn't stopped. It was stopped because Francis did not go vertical for three minutes.

We gave him a 300 count. This actually does. I was thinking this at one point. Do you guys think Dewe Cooper and company should have thrown in the towel after that second knockdown? The one where Francis like clearly looked rattled because I had a brief moment where I was like, like when that happened, it was like, oh, he's actually getting knocked out. The first one was like, oh, he's up, he's okay. This is going to change it. That second knockdown was like, oh, he's done.

And this could be ugly. And if I was his corner, I may have considered being like, we don't need this. We're good. I think my instinct is to say they could not do that because Francis would never forgive them. Like, I think that's a relationship ender. Francis is in the moment of the biggest moments of his career that he dreamed about when he was a kid. it's not like it's just like the 10th UFC fight. This is Anthony Joshua.

I just came off the fury. If you're asking me objectively, like, could you have thrown the towel in there? Of course you could have. But first of all, I'd say that happens a lot more in boxing. And Dewey Cooper coaches boxer. So actually, he could have had that wherewithal to do it. But man, I just think that's relationship over. Like I just can't, I can't see a world where Francis and Ganu goes.

Yeah, you saved me there. I can't. You're probably right, but you could also just show him afterwards a screenshot of his face when he does beat the count. And you're like, oh, no one's home. No one is there. I mean, again, objectively, if the towel came in right then, I'd be like, great, thank God. But you also have to account for, and this is something like that I think a lot of corners kind of think about. Like, Francis Inganu is kind of superhuman.

Like Francis Inganu has like a thing about him where it's just like, I believe he can do anything. You truly start to like drink the Kool-Aid and believe things and believe like we've been here before. And there's a way where he can like if would he ever get a Tyson Fury fight? Then he knocks down Tyson Fury. Like he's just done some things that make you all of a sudden go he can do anything. And I believe he can do anything. And if you're around him long enough, you probably start to think that too. And there's probably an element of that in play.

In addition to what I said about like, yeah, I don't think Francis recovers the relationship if you do that. But could it have gone in? Yeah, absolutely. That after knockdown two, it was like, well, this is the end. No matter what, this is it. There's no coming the rest of this round. Yeah. That's when I tore my decision tickets.

The finishing blow, did it happen basically on the next exchange after the second knockout? The next punch. Yeah. Oh, it was literally the next punch. Yeah. And if you watch boxing. You can find the clips. Watch the replay.

It is so clear that Joshua knows that this fight is over and he just has to end it. He steps in and throws overhand down the middle that I can't. It is the, it looks like he is punching the hit the punching machines, you know, that Francis famously has like it looks like he is stepping into that. and Francis just, he can't do anything. It is the most telegraphed hand that has ever been thrown and it lands cleanly and on the button. I mean, no, he gets an arm up, but it's to the wrong side of his chin. And so it just comes right here.

And it's just, I mean, it is, it's a monster punch. That one I got 999 on the score. Yeah, that would have maxed out the machine. I think the machine breaks. I think the machine breaks. I think the machine breaks if he had some with that one. Put an out of order. Like, I'm not kidding you, Casey.

It legitimately looks like he is punching those machines. Like, this is a stationary target, and I'm throwing at it as hard as I can. Any of it? Yeah. I want to see the second knockdown again. I'm kind of curious to how the ref handled that situation. Does the ref really give Francis a really good look? You know, one of those like, are you sure?

That's a good question. I'm kind of curious. All top of head. We talked about it earlier. Francis is poker face unbelievable. Not a bad time, it wasn't. One of all the second one, it was super not. All top of head, like Francis wasn't stumbling, right?

Like when you see some of those like real, when you see some of those real nasty boxing knockdowns where you're like, I can't believe they let this guy go back out there. They're stumbling. They're just like not looking like they can even stand up. Francis was still sturdy to a certain degree. But you could see in his posture in his eyes like, this was a knockout waiting to happen.

But I don't think the ref did anything. Yeah, I don't think the ref did anything negligent there. I don't think he didn't give it a good look. Like Francis was standing up straight, put his gloves out. Like he was ready to look like he was going to fight. But man, it did not look like he was ready to fight like from a seeing a ghost perspective. Yeah, it was tough. I mean, I'll be pretty surprised if there's a better knockout of the year in boxing this year.

Yeah. Terrence Leverett I think over in Freaky Friday with that pick they took sad time boys Look you live by the monster punch you die by the monster punch

It's great one Terrence That's funny Joey MMA lost a little today sadly I don't think so I don't agree This is It lost some if you thought

that Francis going over was proof that MMA is a superior combat sport It's not They're just different. They're just different sports with very different skill sets. And you do some boxing in MMA, but it's just not even remotely the same. Listen to Francis talk heading into this fight.

He gave an interview with Kamar Usman earlier this week where he's like, yeah, what I've learned in boxing is MMA is easier. Like it is boxing is hard. I have to do a bunch of stuff I've never done. It's entirely different kind of training. It's just not something I'm used to because it's fun. fundamentally a different sport. So I think this was the outcome we should have expected.

It just got delayed because of the fury magic. All right. And our last super chat because, yeah, I don't know. People, people like. Miguel Kahaya, seriously, why does Jed look AI generated? Again, I'm taking this as a compliment. What does this mean? I do, I truly don't understand it, but I'm,

taking as a compliment because every AI generated photo is like overly pristine and I've never once thought of myself like that. So hell yeah. I almost hope that he never explains it and it just becomes this gimmick that he continues to super chat into and just ask. I'll never show my fingers on camera just so we can keep the bit alive. And that's it. Casey hit the music. We've been here for a long time talking about boxing and we get to do it all in in, uh, like 20-some odd hours. I don't know. It's, we're going to be doing this again tomorrow night, the UFC 299 post show.

I guess that'll be like 28 hours. But we'll do the pre-fight Q&A. We'll do, we've got a watch party. We got coverage on enemy fighting.com. We got all the bells and whistles for 299. Great start to the weekend. New York Rick hanging out to my left as I'm looking at it, but I'm not actually sure if that's broadcast left or not.

That's E. Casey Lydde. Those are some balloons with Ricky. I'm Jed Mishu. It's been an honor and a privilege. Francis, we still love you. And we love you all. Good night, everybody. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.